In Twin Cities, gentrification not really hurting the poor, UMN study says

Interesting, I wish I understood this better.

Check out this new update.
Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially noteworthy
considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro Transit's Green
Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing prices along
University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those ...

Rest of post

The Orfield philosophy is that no more affordable housing should be built
in low-income areas of Minneapolis and that the poor would be better served
in affordable housing scattered throughout the suburban seven county area.
Therefore, when affordable housing units are replaced with market rate
housing or when vacant lots are developed with market rate housing, whether
it is called gentrification or not, it is a benefit to the city. I reject
this philosophy for two reasons:

First, putting low income persons into affordable housing in the suburbs
will more than likely force low-income persons in to a car payment or two
because public transit infrastructure is almost non-existent in the
suburbs. Also, low-income persons are forced out of a possible healthy
living lifestyle because they cannot bike or walk to shopping or activities
again because of poor infrastructure. Given the health disparities of
low-income persons, specifically African Americans, low income persons need
to remain in the city where they can be encourage to bike or walk to jobs
and activities for healthy lifestyle reasons. You cannot get this in the
suburbs.

My second reason is that, in my opinion, there is a cultural disconnect
when you put low-income minority persons into affordable housing in
mostly-white suburbs. The persons and children are cut off from culture,
relatives, babysitting services and other amenities that are relevant to
them. I wont even get to the hostilities faced by some minority persons in
the suburbs such as when the woman in a hijab was assaulted in a suburban
eatery for not speaking American.

Having said this, there could be more affordable housing in the suburbs for
minorities who chose to live there but, we need more affordable housing
within the city of Minneapolis as well. I am concerned that most of the new
development such as Rex 26 and the Target/Cheapos building are coming in at
market rate.

Bill Dooley
Kenny

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>> wrote:

> Interesting, I wish I understood this better.
>
>
> Check out this new update.
> Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially
> noteworthy considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro
> Transit's Green Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing
> prices along University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those ...
> --
> Original Post:
>
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor

Rest of post

Like many studies, this one seems designed to reach a pre-determined
conclusion.

It looks for gentrification using very large geographic areas. But
gentrification happens on a small neighborhood (not planning district) level,
block level or even building level. The large size of the study areas will mask
any gentrification that is happening.

Two examples of gentrification recently in the news (one on the building level,
one a multi-buidling apartment complex):
Last week in the STrib:
http://www.startribune.com/low-income-renters-lose-a-downtown-minneapolis-gem/365506531/
(downtown Minneapolis building)
The apartments across from the Best Buy headquarters at Penn and 494 in
Richfield (Couldn’t quickly find the story)

sheldon mains
Seward N’hborhood, Minneapolis

> On Jan 19, 2016, at 9:09 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Interesting, I wish I understood this better.
>
> Check out this new update.
> Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially noteworthy
considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro Transit's Green
Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing prices along
University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those ...
> --
> Original Post:
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor

Rest of post

Mr. Dooley, I confess I share your prejudice against the suburbs. I never know
where I am and there's nothing to do. But I do think some of your
generalizations are unfounded.

First, affordable housing and most suburban apartment buildings are built along
public transit corridors.

Second, not all poor people are minorities. The majority are white.

Third, not all people eligible for affordable housing live in the cities, some
actually live in the suburbs.

Frederick Melo has an excellent summary of the U Gentrification report:
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor

But you should take the time to read the full report here:
http://www1.law.umn.edu/uploads/57/8c/578cee7de5d2da24ea6f9f11d8f92c24/IMO-Gentrification-Study-Final-January-2016.pdf

We need to ask ourselves, as a community, whether the continued concentration
of poor people in urban areas is in the best interests of the greater community
and in the best interests of young people seeking educational and employment
opportunities.

Ed Felien
<email obscured>
You can subscribe to Southside Pride by emailing <email obscured> and
writing subscribe
Like us on Facebook.

On Jan 19, 2016, at 9:43 AM, Bill Dooley <<email obscured>> wrote:

> The Orfield philosophy is that no more affordable housing should be built
> in low-income areas of Minneapolis and that the poor would be better served
> in affordable housing scattered throughout the suburban seven county area.
> Therefore, when affordable housing units are replaced with market rate
> housing or when vacant lots are developed with market rate housing, whether
> it is called gentrification or not, it is a benefit to the city. I reject
> this philosophy for two reasons:
>
>
> First, putting low income persons into affordable housing in the suburbs
> will more than likely force low-income persons in to a car payment or two
> because public transit infrastructure is almost non-existent in the
> suburbs. Also, low-income persons are forced out of a possible healthy
> living lifestyle because they cannot bike or walk to shopping or activities
> again because of poor infrastructure. Given the health disparities of
> low-income persons, specifically African Americans, low income persons need
> to remain in the city where they can be encourage to bike or walk to jobs
> and activities for healthy lifestyle reasons. You cannot get this in the
> suburbs.
>
> My second reason is that, in my opinion, there is a cultural disconnect
> when you put low-income minority persons into affordable housing in
> mostly-white suburbs. The persons and children are cut off from culture,
> relatives, babysitting services and other amenities that are relevant to
> them. I wont even get to the hostilities faced by some minority persons in
> the suburbs such as when the woman in a hijab was assaulted in a suburban
> eatery for not speaking American.
>
> Having said this, there could be more affordable housing in the suburbs for
> minorities who chose to live there but, we need more affordable housing
> within the city of Minneapolis as well. I am concerned that most of the new
> development such as Rex 26 and the Target/Cheapos building are coming in at
> market rate.
>
> Bill Dooley
> Kenny
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> Interesting, I wish I understood this better.
>>
>>
>> Check out this new update.
>> Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially
>> noteworthy considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro
>> Transit's Green Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing
>> prices along University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those ...
>> --
>> Original Post:
>>
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor
>> --
>> Sent from LinkedIn for iOS
>>
>>
>> David Tilsen
>> 612-281-8576 mobile
>> 612-823-8169 land line
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> David Tilsen
>> Powderhorn, Minneapolis
>> About/contact David Tilsen: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidtilsen
>>
>>
>> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
>> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
>> <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>>
>> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------
>> Reply: Reply-All or visit
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2q62f14jHseTOCGSgxUvow
>> New Topic: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
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>> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
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>>
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>>
>
>
> Bill Dooley
> Kenny, Minneapolis
> About/contact Bill Dooley: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billdooley
>
>
> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/fclzVdtXCxHmv3uUdjcNh
> New Topic: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
>
>
> *** 2016 - The year to become a sustaining subscriber! ***
> A recurring donation is essentially a subscription. Whatever monthly
amount you
> choose will help sustain E-Democracy throughout the year. Select "Make
This Recurring

Rest of post

My primary goal is to keep low-income persons close to decent transit
amenities and biking and walking infrastructure to encourage an active
living lifestyle to combat the staggering health disparities that
especially affect the African American communities. My secondary goal is to
keep low-income persons from having to make a financial investment in a car
if they choose not to do so.

Bill Dooley
Kenny

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Ed Felien <<email obscured>>
wrote:

> Mr. Dooley, I confess I share your prejudice against the suburbs. I never
> know where I am and there's nothing to do. But I do think some of your
> generalizations are unfounded.
>
> First, affordable housing and most suburban apartment buildings are built
> along public transit corridors.
>
> Second, not all poor people are minorities. The majority are white.
>
> Third, not all people eligible for affordable housing live in the cities,
> some actually live in the suburbs.
>
> Frederick Melo has an excellent summary of the U Gentrification report:
>
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor
>
> But you should take the time to read the full report here:
>
http://www1.law.umn.edu/uploads/57/8c/578cee7de5d2da24ea6f9f11d8f92c24/IMO-Gentrification-Study-Final-January-2016.pdf
>
> We need to ask ourselves, as a community, whether the continued
> concentration of poor people in urban areas is in the best interests of the
> greater community and in the best interests of young people seeking
> educational and employment opportunities.
>
>
>
> Ed Felien
> <email obscured>
> You can subscribe to Southside Pride by emailing <email obscured>
and
> writing subscribe
> Like us on Facebook.
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2016, at 9:43 AM, Bill Dooley <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> The Orfield philosophy is that no more affordable housing should be built
> in low-income areas of Minneapolis and that the poor would be better served
> in affordable housing scattered throughout the suburban seven county area.
> Therefore, when affordable housing units are replaced with market rate
> housing or when vacant lots are developed with market rate housing, whether
> it is called gentrification or not, it is a benefit to the city. I reject
> this philosophy for two reasons:
>
>
> First, putting low income persons into affordable housing in the suburbs
> will more than likely force low-income persons in to a car payment or two
> because public transit infrastructure is almost non-existent in the
> suburbs. Also, low-income persons are forced out of a possible healthy
> living lifestyle because they cannot bike or walk to shopping or activities
> again because of poor infrastructure. Given the health disparities of
> low-income persons, specifically African Americans, low income persons need
> to remain in the city where they can be encourage to bike or walk to jobs
> and activities for healthy lifestyle reasons. You cannot get this in the
> suburbs.
>
> My second reason is that, in my opinion, there is a cultural disconnect
> when you put low-income minority persons into affordable housing in
> mostly-white suburbs. The persons and children are cut off from culture,
> relatives, babysitting services and other amenities that are relevant to
> them. I wont even get to the hostilities faced by some minority persons in
> the suburbs such as when the woman in a hijab was assaulted in a suburban
> eatery for not speaking American.
>
> Having said this, there could be more affordable housing in the suburbs for
> minorities who chose to live there but, we need more affordable housing
> within the city of Minneapolis as well. I am concerned that most of the new
> development such as Rex 26 and the Target/Cheapos building are coming in at
> market rate.
>
> Bill Dooley
> Kenny
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
> Interesting, I wish I understood this better.
>
>
> Check out this new update.
> Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially
> noteworthy considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro
> Transit's Green Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing
> prices along University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those
> ...
> --
> Original Post:
>
>
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor

Rest of post

I, personally, would be a fish out of water in the 'burbs. But then, I've lived
here for 40 years and don't want to leave the convenience of a city, even
though I have wheels. Too, I was born and raised in a city... .

However, for young families, some of the burbs (St. Louis Park, Richfield,
Golden Valley, parts of Edina) do have better schools, schools which do a
better job of educating children with learning difficulties, schools with
higher expectations and better amenities. BUT, I'm not suggesting something
like mondo-condo land where all the subsidized housing is in a clump. It needs
to be scattered site housing. Younger kids could adapt very readily, but teens
might go through some adjustment weirdness.

To answer Mr. Dooley, the transit service is getting way better in the burbs.
('Bout dam time, too). Still not the "old established lines" of Mpls.-St.Paul,
but the demand is driving the change.

The significant aspect of this new study of so-called gentrification is
that it finds the big development money in Minneapolis going to areas that
are already wealthy. It's not so much that poor areas are being demolished
to build housing for the rich, as it is money going where there's already
money: Southwest Minneapolis, downtown, and along the river downtown. Some
redevelopment now occurs along transit lines outside of downtown, but it's
not making much of a difference in housing demographics, apparently.

The study mentions expensive homes in SW that are bought only to be torn
down to build an even more expensive home on that same spot; this
intensifies the concentration of wealth in an area of the city with already
concentrated wealth. Or hugely expensive downtown condos are built on what
were empty parking lots or old warehouses, not housing for the poor.
Ornstein concludes that Minneapolis is so far not seeing displacement of
the poor by gentrification.

Developers these days are paying no attention to the poor in Minneapolis,
except for non-profits like Habitat and People for Pride in Living.
Minneapolis is awash in millionaires and billionaires, and they want to
live with their peers, not in deteriorating neighborhoods where poverty and
attendant ills like high crime pervade. So Ornstein is seeing that money is
magnetically going to where money already is, not toward disruption of poor
or minority neighborhoods.

Give Minneapolis a few years, though, and we'll become even more like New
York and San Francisco (and Europe); when the empty parking lots and old
warehouses are replaced by expensive condos, and the little cottages in SW
are all replaced by McMansions, the money will go looking for more sites to
redevelop for the rich. Then, gentrification may begin to drive the poor
out of some areas that are as yet untouched by the phenomenon.

Connie Sullivan
Como, ungentrified in Southeast Minneapolis

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Sheldon Mains <<email obscured>> wrote:

> Like many studies, this one seems designed to reach a pre-determined
> conclusion.
>
> It looks for gentrification using very large geographic areas. But
> gentrification happens on a small neighborhood (not planning district)
> level, block level or even building level. The large size of the study
> areas will mask any gentrification that is happening.
>
> Two examples of gentrification recently in the news (one on the building
> level, one a multi-buidling apartment complex):
> Last week in the STrib:
>
http://www.startribune.com/low-income-renters-lose-a-downtown-minneapolis-gem/365506531/
> (downtown Minneapolis building)
> The apartments across from the Best Buy headquarters at Penn and 494 in
> Richfield (Couldn’t quickly find the story)
>
> sheldon mains
> Seward N’hborhood, Minneapolis
>
>
> > On Jan 19, 2016, at 9:09 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting, I wish I understood this better.
> >
> > Check out this new update.
> > Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially
> noteworthy considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro
> Transit's Green Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing
> prices along University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those ...
> > --
> > Original Post:
>
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor

Rest of post

Oops! I mean Orfield, not Ornstein! So sorry.

Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Sheldon Mains <<email obscured>> wrote:

> Like many studies, this one seems designed to reach a pre-determined
> conclusion.
>
> It looks for gentrification using very large geographic areas. But
> gentrification happens on a small neighborhood (not planning district)
> level, block level or even building level. The large size of the study
> areas will mask any gentrification that is happening.
>
> Two examples of gentrification recently in the news (one on the building
> level, one a multi-buidling apartment complex):
> Last week in the STrib:
>
http://www.startribune.com/low-income-renters-lose-a-downtown-minneapolis-gem/365506531/
> (downtown Minneapolis building)
> The apartments across from the Best Buy headquarters at Penn and 494 in
> Richfield (Couldn’t quickly find the story)
>
> sheldon mains
> Seward N’hborhood, Minneapolis
>
>
> > On Jan 19, 2016, at 9:09 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > Interesting, I wish I understood this better.
> >
> > Check out this new update.
> > Institute Director Myron Orfield said the results are especially
> noteworthy considering widespread concerns that the construction of Metro
> Transit's Green Line light rail corridor would lead to an uptick in housing
> prices along University Avenue in St. Paul, displacing the locals. Those ...
> > --
> > Original Post:
>
http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_29400366/umn-study-twin-cities-gentrification-not-really-factor

Rest of post

I'm not commenting on the report because I haven't read it yet. I'm commenting
on the comments. I find them very patronizing. The policymakers should be
asking the folks who would live in this housing where they would like to live.
I'm European-American so I can't know how persons of color feel about being
patronized. But I'm a woman and I can remember how angry I was in junior high
when the girls had to play six "man" basketball in PE. (Three guards and three
forwards per team with forwards restricted to their teams half of the court and
guards to their opponents half.) We were told that it wouldn't be healthy for
girls to play full court.

Evelyn Turner
Kenwood

As a young women I came to the Phillips neighborhood as a homeless single mom
living on the living room floor of an acquaintance. A year later, I was lucky
enough to get a Sec 8 voucher that I then found an apartment very close to
where I was staying.

>From the gentrification forum that Council member Cano hosted I understand the
gentrification that is currently happening in Ward 9 is about rents going up.

1. I don't believe its my zip code that causes the social ills in my life or my
neighborhood. Instead it is a complex intersection of social conditions,
structural racism, and policies that result in disinvestment and poverty which
in turn creates a concentration of people that are vulnerable to poor public
decision making.
2. Moving families to more prosperous areas does not guarantee their prosperity
and success in fact it can cause more problems when removing a family from
their neighborhood social capital. It just dilutes the statistics.
3. It is important to look at where we concentrate public investments with an
eye for equity.
4. Instead of social engineering by academics and their statistics we should be
expanding our choices of communities of opportunity throughout our region
targeting those areas that have had a long history of disinvestment.
5. It is overdue for the dialogue and study of segregation to evolve out of the
1960s and into the 21st century as a conversation about structural racism and
communities of choice.

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In Twin Cities, gentrification not really hurting the poor, UMN study says

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