I'll drink to that...not really!

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20150804/NEWS/150808869/0/breaking_ajax

Well Framingham is on its way to becoming the best watering hole in the State.
Imagine now being able to buy booze at a gas station! What were the Selectmen
thinking on this one? Four in favor one against. I think what really bothers
me about this is the fact that on that side of town we definitely have enough
places to buy booze.
But hey, why not a as gas station? Now the drunks can have their booze and
drink it too as they drive off into the sunset.

Is it just me or am I imaging something here.....Have you noticed how many
drinking establishments and places to by liquor are in the town? I think our
town fathers are trying to get the award for how many they can put in a small
area. Considering that the town is unique in so many ways and on that side of
town having many diverse nationalities that tend to drink heavily, I think this
is a bad move. That's all you have to do is read the police blotter to see
whats happening on that issue. The facts speak for themselves. That's not to
diminish the Americans who have drinking issues too because we have plenty of
them. Also lets not forget excessive drinking contributes to most domestic
abuse problems. So now, we give these people even a better chance to pick up
their weapon of choice (at the gas station) so they won't miss a beat when they
get home.

I got a kick out of seeing people going up at the podium at the selectman's
meeting actually giving great accolades about the car wash and maybe rightly
so. But really now, how a business is appreciated in a community is no reason
to issue a license and be allowed to influence more so a drinking problem that
plagues the town even more.

Well anyway Framingham is definitely being noted for some unusual happenings
and this one will go down as a black mark against the town, the watering hole
capital of the state. On the good side just think of all the newcomers who
like to drink and drive they will love it here. We have to make it easier for
them to have access to booze and this is the way to do it.

I'm surprised the people who advocate against drinking: The social services,
domestic violence groups, etc. didn't speak out against this. But then again
maybe they like the convenience too. After a hard day of dealing with all these
domestic abuse cases what's better than a tall drink to help you forget your
problems.

Get over it. You cannot continue to stereotype by nationality and still claim
that you are not racist. That is the definition of racism.

Moreover, not everyone who drinks has a drinking problem and not everyone who
has a drinking problem causes problems for others.

This is not the first gas station in Framingham to have a liquor license.

Suze Craighead

Interesting that you would bring in racism to a comment that had to do with
drinking. I showed that all people have a drinking problem that's what I
alluded to. You made it a racist issue like you always do.
I don't think I have a racist problem I think you might. Maybe it's called
white guilt on your part.
But let's get back to my original thought on this matter I'm very surprised
that people that are against drinking and the domestic violence people did not
speak out against this.
It is true that other gas stations have liquor there but this is the south side
of town where the problems associated with domestic violence and drinking to
the excess is more severe than other places on the town.
I can see you don't read the police blotter and see who's in it and what's
happening around town on the matter. The MetroWest news only reports a small
part of what's really happening in the town so it's probably even worse than
what the paper shows.
For a town to continue to support establishments that sell liquor like this I
think it's like driving your car with the brakes on. Definitely
counterproductive of what you want to town to be.

I have to agree with Suze: that was a blatantly racist statement for the exact
reason she stated. Not only is it racist, it is also inaccurate. I suggest
that you actually take a look at the data on alcohol use by nationality, rather
than scanning the police blotters to look for confirmation of your existing
biases about immigrants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

That aside, Massachusetts has incredibly archaic quota laws when it comes to
liquor licenses dating back to the beginnings of the post-prohibition era. I
have lived in states where pretty much every grocery and convenience store
sells beer and wine, and it is no big deal. All we do is make it harder for
new businesses and restaurants to open, because buying a license on the
secondary market can be costly. Once again, Massachusetts shows that "business
friendly" is a bit of a crock. I am in favor of ensuring that llicensees comply
with the laws, but the quotas are B.S.

I wonder what our representatives think about it.

Agreed- the quotas are BS - CW

On 8/5/2015 11:20 AM, Linda Dunbrack wrote:
> I have to agree with Suze: that was a blatantly racist statement for the
exact reason she stated. Not only is it racist, it is also inaccurate. I
suggest that you actually take a look at the data on alcohol use by
nationality, rather than scanning the police blotters to look for confirmation
of your existing biases about immigrants.
>
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita
>
> That aside, Massachusetts has incredibly archaic quota laws when it comes to
liquor licenses dating back to the beginnings of the post-prohibition era. I
have lived in states where pretty much every grocery and convenience store
sells beer and wine, and it is no big deal. All we do is make it harder for
new businesses and restaurants to open, because buying a license on the
secondary market can be costly. Once again, Massachusetts shows that "business
friendly" is a bit of a crock. I am in favor of ensuring that llicensees comply
with the laws, but the quotas are B.S.
>
> I wonder what our representatives think about it.
>
> Linda Dunbrack
> Framingham
> About/contact Linda Dunbrack: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/lindadunbrack
>
>
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> "Time flies like the wind; fruit flies like a banana." (in tribute to Steve
Orr, who had this quote in his personal footer).

So what could you do about this BS system as our State Rep??

Rich Shapiro

Sent from my iPhone

What is interesting that your racism is so deep seated that you do not even
recognize when you are making a racist statement. When you make assumptions
about people based on their national origin, that is racist. Your statement
"on that side of town having many diverse nationalities that tend to drink
heavily" is racist.

I do not think it was a good decision to use the last liquor license for this
type of location. I also agree with Linda that it is absurd that the licenses
are rationed out by the state. How about a little free market?

And I am still waiting to hear who you think is benefiting from Winter street
and might benefit from Brendon Homes? Where does the money lead?

Suze Craighead

-----Original Message-----
From: Framingham Government Forum - FramGov - Massachusetts
[mailto:framgov@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Jim Rizoli
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 11:17 AM
To: framgov@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [FramGov] I'll drink to that...not really!

Interesting that you would bring in racism to a comment that had to do with
drinking. I showed that all people have a drinking problem that's what I
alluded to. You made it a racist issue like you always do.
I don't think I have a racist problem I think you might. Maybe it's called
white guilt on your part.
But let's get back to my original thought on this matter I'm very surprised
that people that are against drinking and the domestic violence people did not
speak out against this.
It is true that other gas stations have liquor there but this is the south side
of town where the problems associated with domestic violence and drinking to
the excess is more severe than other places on the town.
I can see you don't read the police blotter and see who's in it and what's
happening around town on the matter. The MetroWest news only reports a small
part of what's really happening in the town so it's probably even worse than
what the paper shows.
For a town to continue to support establishments that sell liquor like this I
think it's like driving your car with the brakes on. Definitely
counterproductive of what you want to town to be.

Jim Rizoli
P. 14, Framingham
About/contact Jim Rizoli: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/jimrizoli1

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"Time flies like the wind; fruit flies like a banana." (in tribute to Steve
Orr, who had this quote in his personal footer).

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Well its nice to see we agree on something I don't think they should have got
the liquor license either so we agree now on the other question who benefited
from the homes in that area who was the builder very simple.
I already told you follow the money where did money ends up those people are
the ones thst benefit from it.

From Jim Rizoli

Well its nice to see we agree on something I don't think they should have got
the liquor license either so we agree now on the other question who benefited
from the homes in that area who was the builder very simple. I already told you
follow the money where did money ends up those people are the ones thst
benefit from it.

That's how commerce works - someone provides goods or services and someone else
pays for it. What IS your point?

From Jim Rizoli:

All the responses are to Suzie.

What is the issue with you here

I think the main point I was trying to make with my comments was.. this town
has enough places for people to buy booze we really don't need anymore to be
added to it for some reason we have to have a booze or a place to be able to
buy booze on every corner I don't agree with that I think it takes away from
the true function of a town not to mention all the other problems that are
associated with drinking.

See. You can make your point without invoking racism. I think that it goes
against the small government stance and is anti-free market to limit reasonable
access to liquor stores but at least you didn't have to invoke stereotypes this
time to make the point.

Susan S. Craighead
Sent via remote

> On Aug 7, 2015, at 5:16 PM, Jim Rizoli <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I think the main point I was trying to make with my comments was.. this town
has enough places for people to buy booze we really don't need anymore to be
added to it for some reason we have to have a booze or a place to be able to
buy booze on every corner I don't agree with that I think it takes away from
the true function of a town not to mention all the other problems that are
associated with drinking.
>
> Jim Rizoli
> P. 14, Framingham
> About/contact Jim Rizoli: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/jimrizoli1
>
>
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http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/framgov/charter.
>
> "Time flies like the wind; fruit flies like a banana." (in tribute to Steve
Orr, who had this quote in his personal footer).

Your perception of what is racist is what it is, and I'm not going to change
that.
There are many things wrong with this town and the reasons are not based on
racism but based on facts. I notice when the facts point to a certain group
of people then the reply will always appear racist to some of you, I will not
win so I don't waste my time trying to justify my comments.

Bottom line, the town is not painting a very nice picture of itself by allowing
what it allowing to operate ( tons of liquor stores). Just for fun check out
what other wealthier towns allow and see what goes on there. Not even close to
what Framingham allows.
And consequently, not even close to what problems they have to deal with.

Framingham is a proliferation of Liquor stores, second hand car dealerships,
hair and nail shops, dollar type stores, gas stations, convenient stores and
more.
Have I missed any?
Not the type of stores that you see in great quantities in Wellesley, Dover,
Sherborn, and even downtown Natick. There must be a reason don't ya think?
Yet our BOS want to keep adding these type of establishments like we don't have
enough already.
I say we have plenty and it's time to change the face of the town one business
at a time.

Mr Rizoli,

You wrote that "your perception of what is racist is what it is, and I'm not
going to change that."

This is not merely the matter of the perception of one individual. The
organization you and your brother run, CCFIILE, was labeled a "hate group" by
the Southern Poverty Law Center and characterized as anti-semitic by the ADL.
These are facts, not opinions, and I've provided links below.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/article/20090226/NEWS/302269883

http://archive.adl.org/nr/exeres/7f918ae0-1eeb-4037-b83a-46c92344a4a7,db7611a2-02cd-43af-8147-649e26813571,frameless.html

Any concern that perhaps CCFIILE was mischaracterized was dispelled after
spending a few minutes on the CCFIILE webpage.

I'm embarrassed that such hatred is in the town I chose to raise my children.

Alana Lipkin

Jim, your post cracked me up on several fronts.

First of all, a fact is something that is indisputably true. Your comment,
"Considering that the town is unique in so many ways and on that side of town
having many diverse nationalities that tend to drink heavily, I think this is a
bad move." is, quite simply, not a fact, as the evidence suggests that it is
deeply disputed. It is actually contradicted by actual facts on drinking by
nationality, but you don't want to consider those particular facts.

Fact: I used to live in Burke Virginia (median income $131,068).
Fact: You could get beer and wine in every grocery store and conveniences
store.
Opinion: It was absolutely fine. It was and is a very nice place to live.

Fact: One of the problems with having a quota system is that you do end up with
stores that are largely dedicated to alcohol sales, instead of it being just
one more thing that is sold in your inventory.

The part that cracked me up was gas stations, hair salons and nail salons being
signs of deterioration of the town. Dollar stores and second-hand retailers are
indeed, a sign: a sign that the many in our town need to purchase items that
are affordable given their income. Businesses locate where there is demand for
their goods and services. If you want to increase local incomes so that we
could have different stores, then it makes sense to increase the local minimum
wage.

Linda,
I'm glad you found my comments funny, that means I can't be a hater because
haters are not funny, right?

Your comments about businesses in the town actually prove points.
The businesses that I mentioned are not needed in towns that are doing well,
especially many of the same type of businesses. I mean really now how many
used car lots do we need? How about one on every corner! Our town seems to
caters to low income people which is not what you want to be known for. I'm
not saying that in itself is a bad thing, just not a more positive thing to be
noted for.

On the other comment about my website being a hateful site, again I say that
hate is in the eye of the beholder. Quotes from the SPLC....LOL The SPLC
is not a reputable organization and has been taken to task for many
indiscretions in it's judgements of groups and peoples. For example.....
They consider the American Family Association as a "hate" group. Also the
Jonah group, Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing as hate group.
So you might want to think about the credibility of the SPLC as "hateful"
organization
themselves. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

More personally I have a perfect right to express my thoughts on matters and if
people don't like them then don't engage me, and don't go to my website.
If my website inflicts that much pain to you I don't know what to say, stay
away from the pain.

I find it interesting that when my cable shows were on TV some complained but
they had no problem watching them to complain. If you don't like my videos
don't watch them, plenty of people liked what I said, and many will watch and
read what I say but won't admit it. Why is that? I pride myself on
watching most things, and reading pretty much everything except filth and
perversion, thats the only way I can understand what is going on around me.

I don't tell people not to read or watch things I let them make that decision
themselves.
Freedom of thought and expression are paramount to me and we all should be as
well informed on many issues and I pride myself on that note. I've even
availed myself to certain groups that I speak against to debate me on the
issues but guess what no takers. All topics should be debatable but some
aren't which is why I continue to fight for open and honest debate.

When debate is stopped then free thought is inhibited and that creates true
“hate” in the world. True HATE, is when we suppress the opinions and
thoughts of others.
Oh, by the way here is Sundays Bible lesson for those that are inclined.
When Jesus was on this earth years ago in the flesh he said in Matt. 23:13
this interesting statement about people who try to stop other people from
listening to others, I'm taking some liberties here but he said this, “Woe
to you scribes and Pharisees hypocrites! Because you shut up the Kingdom of
the heavens before men, for you yourselves do not go in, neither do you permit
those on their way to go in.” In other words let others decide for
themselves what is what.. Should we be the ones to do that? Should we be
the ones deciding for others what information they come in contact with to read
or watch?
Interesting how my information is censored and banned on Cable TV, I even had a
Bible show, Go figure? Now why is that?

Mr Rizoli,

The American Family Association "has been listed as a hate group by the
Southern Poverty Law Center for the "propogation of known falsehoods" and the
use of demonizing propoganda" against LGBT people. JONAH has a similar
philosophy. So both organizations are hate groups, and it's not surprising that
your oranization, CCFIILE, is listed with them.

You wrote, "I pride myself on watching most things, and reading pretty much
everything except filth and perversion." Homophobia, racism, and anti-semitism
are filth and perversion.

Is there anyone here, besides the Rizolis, who is proud that CCFIILE was born
in Framingham? Is there anyone here, besides the Rizolis, who believes that
CCFIILE makes Framingham a better place to live? Is there anyone here, besides
the Rizolis, who doesn't believe that CCFIILE deserves its designation as a
hate group?

Alana Lipkin

While taking no position whatsoever on this ongoing discussion, it's
interesting to see quotations pulled at will from the Internet to back one
position or other.

It seems a pretty pointless way to try to make an argument, since almost any
position can be found to be backed by some statement found on some website or
other, posted by someone or other, who may or may not know anything at all
about, well, anything. As an example, I found one that says,
"... the Federal Bureau of Investigation appears to have scrubbed the Southern
Poverty Law Center (SPLC) from its hate crimes webpage, where the controversial
group was listed as a resource and referred to as a partner in public
outreach."

Colleen McLaughlin

> On Aug 9, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Alana Lipkin <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Mr Rizoli,
>
> The American Family Association "has been listed as a hate group by the
Southern Poverty Law Center for the "propogation of known falsehoods" and the
use of demonizing propoganda" against LGBT people. JONAH has a similar
philosophy. So both organizations are hate groups, and it's not surprising that
your oranization, CCFIILE, is listed with them.

If you go to the FBI web page today, SPLC is still listed there under
the heading 'Our Outreach Partners.'

You are right in that one can find support for most any idea, crazy or
not but original sources (ie FBI web site
<https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/partnerships_and_outreach/community_outreach/outreach_contacts>
often can separate fact from fiction (opinion). If you go to the AFA
<http://www.afa.net/> (American Family Association) you will find
abundant examples 'known falsehoods' and 'demonizing propaganda

Elin Calver

On 8/9/2015 1:13 PM, Colleen McLaughlin wrote:
> While taking no position whatsoever on this ongoing discussion, it's
interesting to see quotations pulled at will from the Internet to back one
position or other.
>
> It seems a pretty pointless way to try to make an argument, since almost any
position can be found to be backed by some statement found on some website or
other, posted by someone or other, who may or may not know anything at all
about, well, anything. As an example, I found one that says,
> "... the Federal Bureau of Investigation appears to have scrubbed the
Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) from its hate crimes webpage, where the
controversial group was listed as a resource and referred to as a partner in
public outreach."
>
> Colleen McLaughlin
>
>> On Aug 9, 2015, at 12:52 PM, Alana Lipkin <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>> Mr Rizoli,
>>
>> The American Family Association "has been listed as a hate group by the
Southern Poverty Law Center for the "propogation of known falsehoods" and the
use of demonizing propoganda" against LGBT people. JONAH has a similar
philosophy. So both organizations are hate groups, and it's not surprising that
your oranization, CCFIILE, is listed with them.
>>
>> <snip>
>> Alana Lipkin
>>
>>
>> Alana Lipkin
>> Centre, Framingham
>> About/contact Alana Lipkin: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/alanalipkin
>>
>>
>>
>
> Colleen McLaughlin
> Framingham
> About/contact Colleen McLaughlin:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/colleenmclaughlin
>
>
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http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/framgov/charter.
>
> "Time flies like the wind; fruit flies like a banana." (in tribute to Steve
Orr, who had this quote in his personal footer).

QED.

The fbi website also defines the precise definition of hate crime that they
use. It's still not illegal to think hateful thoughts, though why you'd want
to is another question altogether.

"Defining a Hate Crime
A hate crime is a traditional offense like murder, arson, or vandalism with an
added element of bias. For the purposes of collecting statistics, Congress has
defined a hate crime as a “criminal offense against a person or property
motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion,
disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.” Hate itself is not a
crime—and the FBI is mindful of protecting freedom of speech and other civil
liberties."

What the fbi website does NOT say is that the SPLC uses the same definition.
It doesn't. It defines "Hate group activities can include criminal acts,
marches, rallies, speeches, meetings, leafleting or publishing. Websites
appearing to be merely the work of a single individual, rather than the
publication of a group, are not included in this list. Listing here does not
imply a group advocates or engages in violence or other criminal activity."
In other words, you hate because they say you hate, but the fbi says hate is
not a crime. Not yet anyway.

Colleen McLaughlin

> On Aug 9, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Elin Calver <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> If you go to the FBI web page today, SPLC is still listed there under
> the heading 'Our Outreach Partners.'
>
> You are right in that one can find support for most any idea, crazy or
> not but original sources (ie FBI web site
>
<https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/partnerships_and_outreach/community_outreach/outreach_contacts>

Colleen excellent points!
The SPLC wants to judge people on how they think that isn't their position.
A hate crime is a crime that's perpetrated against an individual or a group of
people that harms them physically. Thinking about things isn't hurting people
having thoughts isn't hurting people We can have whatever thoughts we want.
When we have an organization that tells you how to think what to think what is
politically correct that's when we run into problems that's what the SPLC is
doing so anyone that can support the SPLC is supporting a hate crime in
themselves because they are supporting censorship and mind control.
Another thing that the SPLC does is if there is not racism or true hate being
shown or happening in the area they make sure they create it and that's the
problem with organizations like them they are not content with the status quo
of all of things going along well they have to create a problem that that have
to defend.
They are not an organization you want to hold high esteem for.

Ms McLaughlin,

My point is that SPLC and the ADL identify CCFIILE as a hate group, and my link
proves that.

I never said that CCFIILE had committed any crime.

Your point is ?

Mr Rizoli,

In case anyone on Framgov is still reading this, and they have any doubt that
CCFIILE is a hate-filled organization, I've attached a screen shot from a page
at CCFIILE.

As you said, people should be able to make up their own minds.

I'm still waiting for even one person to respond that CCFIILE is an asset to
Framingham.

Alana Lipkin

The posted image Screenshot (18).png

Screenshot (18).png 240.62kb

Responding to numerous emails to avoid burning both of my two emails.

My overall response. It is like pissing into the wind or trying to teach
pigs to fly to get reason across to some people. I get very tired of trying.
But I am loath to let such hateful racist nonsense go unchallenged.

Two points regarding Colleen McLaughlin's postings:

First, she stated: "it's interesting to see quotations pulled at will from the
Internet to back one position or other. It seems a pretty pointless way to try
to make an argument, since almost any position can be found to be backed by
some statement found on some website or other, posted by someone or other, who
may or may not know anything at all about, well, anything."

Response: Yes and poor sourcing was a problem before the internet if one did
not pay attention. However, SPLC is a reputable source. The sources cited by
Alana Lipkin were reliable and at least she cited some, as opposed to some
other people. In fact, Elin Carver followed up with additional reliable
information.

Second, no one said anything about hate CRIMES until Ms. McLaughlin's second
post. No one was using the FBI's definition of hate crimes. No one said, nor
even implied that it was a crime to be hateful or to hate. The post was about
the fact that a reputable organization has classified a Framingham based pack
as a hate GROUP.

There is a huge difference between something being a crime and something being
despicable. Of course one may say whatever one wants. And in general, one has
the right to do so. But then take the consequences. But when your speech is
racist or hateful or spewing nonsense and nastiness, you can be dang tooting
right that people a whole lot of people like Alana and Linda and me will be
speaking back at every opportunity.

I would like to ignore it and hope that it would go away. And sometimes I do
because it is so repetitive and seems so hopeless, but I cannot let that racism
stand without challenge. Even if I know that the one spewing it doesn’t even
seem to realize or give a good gosh dang how awful it is. I would far rather
be paying attention to the excitement of a monkey in the neighborhood woods
right now.

And to answer Alana Lipkin's question about liking that CCFILLE was founded in
Framingham. No, that comes under despicable.

As to Mr. Rizoli's latest missive, please see below:

-----Original Message-----
From: Framingham Government Forum - FramGov - Massachusetts
[mailto:framgov@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Jim Rizoli
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 5:57 PM
To: framgov@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [FramGov] I'll drink to that...not really!

Colleen excellent points!
The SPLC wants to judge people on how they think that isn't their position.
[Suze]
[Suze] I cannot even parse this sentence to figure out how to respond.

A hate crime is a crime that's perpetrated against an individual or a group of
people that harms them physically. Thinking about things isn't hurting people
having thoughts isn't hurting people We can have whatever thoughts we want.
[Suze]
[Suze] Yes thoughts are harmful when they inform how you act and even more so
when expressed. That doesn’t mean they are a crime. But expressing thoughts
that claim that the Holocaust didn’t happen is harmful, hateful, hurtful and
shameful and in its, I was going to be polite and say "ignorance" but let's
call a spade a spade, in its stupidity.

When we have an organization that tells you how to think what to think what
is politically correct that's when we run into problems that's what the SPLC is
doing so anyone that can support the SPLC is supporting a hate crime in
themselves because they are supporting censorship and mind control.
[Suze]
[Suze] Once again, I am struggling to parse this sentence, but I will respond
to what I think is being said. One is not supporting political correctness,
censorship and mind control when one is simply stating the truth. It is not
being PC, exercising censorship and mind control to recognize that Holocaust
denial is not truthful and is hateful. To call out racism, sexism, and bigotry
when it exists- as it does way too often even now- is also not any of those
things.

Another thing that the SPLC does is if there is not racism or true hate being
shown or happening in the area they make sure they create it and that's the
problem with organizations like them they are not content with the status quo
of all of things going along well they have to create a problem that that have
to defend.
They are not an organization you want to hold high esteem for.
[Suze]
[Suze] As to the first part, PROVE IT. Give us reasonably decent sources with
examples of such alleged baiting and rabble rousing.

Jim Rizoli
P. 14, Framingham
About/contact Jim Rizoli: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/jimrizoli1

The topic is liquor licences, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
I would love to hear more from Chris Walsh, on his thoughts for changing these
outdated quotas.

Yes please stick to the topic, for some reason people like to bash Jim Rizoli
on every topic he writes about. I'm honoured to have the dubious distinction
of being called any derogatory insulting (pig) yikes, thats a new one, name on
the book , but in actuality I'm a freedom loving guy trying to get to the
bottom of things, but thanks for the attention. I'd be more than happy to sit
down with any one of you enjoying a speciality beer with you and chit chat any
time, and I'll by the beer. Or we can go to the drive through at some gas
station and take it on the road.
I say we have enough liquor establishments and those looking to booze it up
have more opportunities in this town to do so now.
Maybe it's time to shut off the tap. What say my readers.....

How can racism get into a car wash booze discussion? Political correctness can
find racism under every rock and beer can!

Didn't we vote state wide to keep booze out of most grocery stores?

If stop & shop can't sell booze, why should a car wash do so?

I thought the liquor lobby convinced us that package stores have that unique
right!

Dave Hornfischer

Finally someone who gets it a voice of reason thanks for the post.

From Dave Hornfischer

How can racism get into a car wash booze discussion? Political correctness can
find racism under every rock and beer can!

Did you read the original post? It was rather obvious.
Didn't we vote state wide to keep booze out of most grocery stores?

The vote was any food store. Here's a link to that question:
http://ballotpedia.org/Massachusetts_Sale_of_Wine_by_Food_Stores_Initiative,_Question_1_(2006)

Mr Hornfischer wrote:

"How can racism get into a car wash booze discussion? Political correctness an
find racism under every rock and beer can!"

The OP, Mr Rizoli, began the post with a racist comment when he referred to
"diverse nationalities that tend to drink heavily."

Mr Rizoli wrote, "for some reason people like to bash Jim Rizoli on every topic
he writes about." I don't see how you were bashed at all. But if you don't
like being referred to as racist, then don't post comments that ARE racist.
It's really that simple, and I'm willing to bet that most Framgov readers would
love to stop reading racist comments.

Alana Lipkin

what ruffles my feathers is that when these stores move the beer and wine into
refrigerated displays more times than not they remove diet peach Snapple.
walter

On Tuesday, August 11, 2015 2:42 PM, Alana Lipkin <<email obscured>>
wrote:

Mr Hornfischer wrote:

"How can racism get into a car wash booze discussion? Political correctness an
find racism under every rock and beer can!"

The OP, Mr Rizoli, began the post with a racist comment when he referred to
"diverse nationalities that tend to drink heavily."

Mr Rizoli wrote, "for some reason people like to bash Jim Rizoli on every topic
he writes about." I don't see how you were bashed at all. But if you don't
like being referred to as racist, then don't post comments that ARE racist.
It's really that simple, and I'm willing to bet that most Framgov readers would
love to stop reading racist comments.

Alana Lipkin

Alana Lipkin
Centre, Framingham
About/contact Alana Lipkin: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/alanalipkin

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I was on a short vacation, where I was on a strict limits on reading
frambors ( had to sneak read under the covers at night) and was trying
not to get too much in the weeds on this but.... my thought is that the
cat is out of the proverbial bag on this issue. I was not in favor of
the original granting of the B/W liquor license for a gas station
because once done it was going to impossible to limit. ( I know.....
the dreaded, discredited domino theory) It seems to me that the
underlying issue is the value of these licenses and that is much like
the discussion on Uber & taxis- if you allow unrestricted non
-medallions (taxis) to flourish then the value of the medallions
disappears along with the whole current system- as you can imagine this
is devastating to companies that have built a business model based on
the current regulations, the banks that made the loans, the drivers, the
mechanics etc....... while on the other hand it seems obvious that once
the genie of an APP for rides was developed it wasn't going to be put
back in the bottle easily. It will be up to the legislature to strike
some balance- which of course will make people on both sides unhappy-
So back to alcohol.... the proliferation of these convenience venues
that sell other things to make their overhead - gas, groceries, guns -
whatever will make it difficult for moderate sized liquor stores (
local) to stay in business especially with box stores wacking them on
price on the other end/..... while the connoisseur has the ability to
order direct from vineyards. The investment in stores,stock and people
( local jobs- local economy) will be at risk unless they can find a
profitable niche.
The quotas are leaking. The local level, by issuing to non-alcohol base
businesses, has decided that the current system isn't worth holding on
to and the current licenses will thus become devalued. I believe that
the legislature will have to think carefully about the implications to
small, local businesses and the pragmatic fact that "things change". So
are the quotas now BS? the pragmatic answer is yes - what we are going
to do about it is a little less clear but I'm certain it will be a
robust conversation where we will try to soften the blow to the existing
system while working on reasonable rules for the next.
Chris

On 8/9/2015 11:24 PM, Andrea Dunne-Adrian wrote:
> The topic is liquor licences, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
I would love to hear more from Chris Walsh, on his thoughts for changing these
outdated quotas.
>
>
> Andrea Dunne-Adrian
> Framingham
> About/contact Andrea Dunne-Adrian:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/andreadunne-adrian

Re nationalities and racism:

while most locals are aware of the Rizoli Bros. occasional (😀) attacks on some
of our immigrant groups, his mere reference here was to "diverse nationalities
that tend to drink heavily"

Having been to several European countries, I might think he was referring to my
German ancestors, the vodka loving Russians, the French wine obsession and the
"lets have a pint of Guinness " Irish. I could probably add almost any group.

So I guess I should be upset against his attack on me and my German immigrant
relatives who escaped feudal Germany to come to a country where a guy could buy
a beer at a car wash... (Because he couldn't buy one at his regular grocery
store)😀😀😌

Sadly, once again the real problem is the legislature who continues to maintain
outdated and outrageous rules regarding liquor licenses.

It's similar to taxi cab limits which begat UBER and LYFT.

Eventually maybe someone will figure out a way to überize booze sales😀😀😀😀😄

Thanks, Chris, for your response. It will be an interesting debate to watch.
And Dave H, great post!

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