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- There are 6 posts — by 4 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Steve Kranz at Jun 25 01:47 UTC
From: Randy Schenkat Date: Jun 24 21:46 UTC Short link
What happens to all this wisdom that is being offered in this thread
on Bridge Relocation? How does this Bridge process work..who
solicits input-- is it the City, County, MDOT, our State Reps? How
many other ideas are there? Could one of the local papers
synthesize what's been shared to date, write a story about it, and
ask others to comment? Could some one from WOD write a synthesis
with a reaction section and subscribers send it on to others in
Winona not subscribed to WOD for their feedback?
Other ideas on getting something to happen with all the good ideas
being shared?
Randy Schenkat
>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >Delivered-To: <email obscured> >X-Original-To: <email obscured> >Delivered-To: <email obscured> >X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vida.onlinegroups.net >X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at hbci.com >From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> >To: "Paul Double" <<email obscured>>, > <<email obscured>> >Subject: Re: [Winona] Bridge relocation >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:10:42 -0500 >X-Priority: 3 >List-Post: mailto:<email obscured> >List-Id: winona >X-BeenThere: <email obscured> >X-Loop: <email obscured> >X-Archive-Id: 46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >X-GSUser-Id: bobsebo >X-pstn-neptune: 5/1/0.20/54 >X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 CV:99.0000 R:95.9108 >P:95.9108 M:90.4903 C:99.5902 ) >X-pstn-settings: 5 (2.0000:2.0000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c >X-pstn-addresses: from <<email obscured>> [1761/74] > >Actually, Paul...I believe (and fervently hope) that MnDOT's job is to >facilitate the movement of people and goods and services, not cars and >trucks. That may seem like splitting hairs given our current reliance on >cars and trucks, but the fact that surfaced recently that the state doesn't >even consider ferry service a form of transit...it reminds me of how much we >take for granted that our roads and bridges will always look like they do >today. I thnk that would be a mistake. > >I think MnDOT will try to build the cheapest bridge they can and be done >with it. This community, however, may well live with the new bridge for a >century. We have to fight for the best solution for us. Something that >comes to mind as we think about a new bridge downtown is that it will be >much more pedestrian and bicycle friendly there than on Pelzer or Mankato. >We are hoping for an increase in bike tourism via the new Wisconsin trail >connection to Latsch Island...just think if we had a 15 foot bike lane >instead of that agoraphobic (yet arguably simultaneously claustrohobic) >nightmare of a sidewalk on the existing bridge? Build it and they will >come? I don't know but cycling is a growing tourism sector and we've got >the country (and the river) to take advantage of it. Such a feature could >also accomodate mobility scooters, segways...who knows what the big thing >will be in 2035...but it would be great if the bridge was flexible and >multipurpose since it will still be the only one we have. > >That bike pedestrian lane could peel off into Levee Park, even. It's not >all just about cost and eminent domain. We need a bridge that will work for >the city...a simple new straight shot bridge doesn't cut it for me. With >this project we could remove ALL through truck traffic from downtown...can >you imagine what that would mean? It's not like MnDOT overspends in >Winona...and more than most cities Winona is fracture critical...if our >bridge breaks the rest of the community goes down with it...we've learned >that first hand. > >Bob Sebo > > > > >> MNDOT has the responsibility to move vehicles both cars and trucks >> efficiently and safe. I believe that is their primary job and that is why >> it is important to provide them with input so long as that input fits >> their >> mission. Cost is part of efficiency and should a location or design >> embrace >> that I would see not logical reason that they would also agree to keep and >> open mind so that all parties and idea are on the table for consideration. > > >> The situation we have now is terrible at best. The only thing worse was >> the >> bridge the current on replaced or the full closure we had this month. >> Keep >> traffic flow, construction cost including eminent domain, safety, >> relocation >> and removal of homes at the top of the list and I think we will find MNDOT >> to be receptive and supportive. >> >> Paul Double >> >> >> >> Paul Double >> >> Info about Paul Double: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pauldouble >> >> This topic's messages may be viewed at: >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2bwY1RsO9aFkeGUS76J3NF >> ----------------------------------------- >> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," >> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >> >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >> ----------------------------------------- >> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > > >Bob Sebo >East End, Winona >Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo > >This topic's messages may be viewed at: >http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >----------------------------------------- > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >----------------------------------------- >Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net -- Randy Schenkat 1358 Skyline Dr. Winona, MN 55987 507-452-7168
From: Bob Sebo Date: Jun 24 22:10 UTC Short link
Randy...I'm not willing to call my comments wise...lol...but you are right
its been a good public forum...I understand that there is a "Stakeholders
Group" which is forming to foster this discussion, but I don't think it's in
place completely yet. I suggest you contact the City Manager.
I do think this is a tremendous opportunity to make for positive change
downtown.
Bob Sebo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Schenkat" <<email obscured>> To: <<email obscured>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:45 PM Subject: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation > What happens to all this wisdom that is being offered in this thread > on Bridge Relocation? How does this Bridge process work..who > solicits input-- is it the City, County, MDOT, our State Reps? How > many other ideas are there? Could one of the local papers > synthesize what's been shared to date, write a story about it, and > ask others to comment? Could some one from WOD write a synthesis > with a reaction section and subscribers send it on to others in > Winona not subscribed to WOD for their feedback? > > Other ideas on getting something to happen with all the good ideas > being shared? > > Randy Schenkat > >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> >>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vida.onlinegroups.net >>X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at hbci.com >>From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> >>To: "Paul Double" <<email obscured>>, >> <<email obscured>> >>Subject: Re: [Winona] Bridge relocation >>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:10:42 -0500 >>X-Priority: 3 >>List-Post: mailto:<email obscured> >>List-Id: winona >>X-BeenThere: <email obscured> >>X-Loop: <email obscured> >>X-Archive-Id: 46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >>X-GSUser-Id: bobsebo >>X-pstn-neptune: 5/1/0.20/54 >>X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 CV:99.0000 R:95.9108 >>P:95.9108 M:90.4903 C:99.5902 ) >>X-pstn-settings: 5 (2.0000:2.0000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c >>X-pstn-addresses: from <<email obscured>> [1761/74] >> >>Actually, Paul...I believe (and fervently hope) that MnDOT's job is to >>facilitate the movement of people and goods and services, not cars and >>trucks. That may seem like splitting hairs given our current reliance on >>cars and trucks, but the fact that surfaced recently that the state >>doesn't >>even consider ferry service a form of transit...it reminds me of how much >>we >>take for granted that our roads and bridges will always look like they do >>today. I thnk that would be a mistake. >> >>I think MnDOT will try to build the cheapest bridge they can and be done >>with it. This community, however, may well live with the new bridge for a >>century. We have to fight for the best solution for us. Something that >>comes to mind as we think about a new bridge downtown is that it will be >>much more pedestrian and bicycle friendly there than on Pelzer or Mankato. >>We are hoping for an increase in bike tourism via the new Wisconsin trail >>connection to Latsch Island...just think if we had a 15 foot bike lane >>instead of that agoraphobic (yet arguably simultaneously claustrohobic) >>nightmare of a sidewalk on the existing bridge? Build it and they will >>come? I don't know but cycling is a growing tourism sector and we've got >>the country (and the river) to take advantage of it. Such a feature could >>also accomodate mobility scooters, segways...who knows what the big thing >>will be in 2035...but it would be great if the bridge was flexible and >>multipurpose since it will still be the only one we have. >> >>That bike pedestrian lane could peel off into Levee Park, even. It's not >>all just about cost and eminent domain. We need a bridge that will work >>for >>the city...a simple new straight shot bridge doesn't cut it for me. With >>this project we could remove ALL through truck traffic from downtown...can >>you imagine what that would mean? It's not like MnDOT overspends in >>Winona...and more than most cities Winona is fracture critical...if our >>bridge breaks the rest of the community goes down with it...we've learned >>that first hand. >> >>Bob Sebo >> >> >> >> >>> MNDOT has the responsibility to move vehicles both cars and trucks >>> efficiently and safe. I believe that is their primary job and that is >>> why >>> it is important to provide them with input so long as that input fits >>> their >>> mission. Cost is part of efficiency and should a location or design >>> embrace >>> that I would see not logical reason that they would also agree to keep >>> and >>> open mind so that all parties and idea are on the table for >>> consideration. >> > >>> The situation we have now is terrible at best. The only thing worse >>> was >>> the >>> bridge the current on replaced or the full closure we had this month. >>> Keep >>> traffic flow, construction cost including eminent domain, safety, >>> relocation >>> and removal of homes at the top of the list and I think we will find >>> MNDOT >>> to be receptive and supportive. >>> >>> Paul Double >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul Double >>> >>> Info about Paul Double: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pauldouble >>> >>> This topic's messages may be viewed at: >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2bwY1RsO9aFkeGUS76J3NF >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> >>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," >>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >>> >>> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >>> >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net >> >> >>Bob Sebo >>East End, Winona >>Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo >> >>This topic's messages may be viewed at: >>http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >>----------------------------------------- >> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," >> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >> >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >>----------------------------------------- >>Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > > > -- > Randy Schenkat > 1358 Skyline Dr. > Winona, MN 55987 > 507-452-7168 > > Randy Schenkat > > Info about Randy Schenkat: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/randyschenkat > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7qM4aEMqQJTzH7J9JavCbO > ----------------------------------------- > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > ----------------------------------------- > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
From: Bob Sebo Date: Jun 24 22:22 UTC Short link
This is my third post for the day...I'm sorry
Anyone else interested in the idea of a suspension bridge? :-)
Why not pursue good architecture as well as excellence in function.
Bob Sebo
----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Schenkat" <<email obscured>> To: <<email obscured>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:45 PM Subject: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation > What happens to all this wisdom that is being offered in this thread > on Bridge Relocation? How does this Bridge process work..who > solicits input-- is it the City, County, MDOT, our State Reps? How > many other ideas are there? Could one of the local papers > synthesize what's been shared to date, write a story about it, and > ask others to comment? Could some one from WOD write a synthesis > with a reaction section and subscribers send it on to others in > Winona not subscribed to WOD for their feedback? > > Other ideas on getting something to happen with all the good ideas > being shared? > > Randy Schenkat > >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> >>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vida.onlinegroups.net >>X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at hbci.com >>From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> >>To: "Paul Double" <<email obscured>>, >> <<email obscured>> >>Subject: Re: [Winona] Bridge relocation >>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:10:42 -0500 >>X-Priority: 3 >>List-Post: mailto:<email obscured> >>List-Id: winona >>X-BeenThere: <email obscured> >>X-Loop: <email obscured> >>X-Archive-Id: 46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >>X-GSUser-Id: bobsebo >>X-pstn-neptune: 5/1/0.20/54 >>X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 CV:99.0000 R:95.9108 >>P:95.9108 M:90.4903 C:99.5902 ) >>X-pstn-settings: 5 (2.0000:2.0000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c >>X-pstn-addresses: from <<email obscured>> [1761/74] >> >>Actually, Paul...I believe (and fervently hope) that MnDOT's job is to >>facilitate the movement of people and goods and services, not cars and >>trucks. That may seem like splitting hairs given our current reliance on >>cars and trucks, but the fact that surfaced recently that the state >>doesn't >>even consider ferry service a form of transit...it reminds me of how much >>we >>take for granted that our roads and bridges will always look like they do >>today. I thnk that would be a mistake. >> >>I think MnDOT will try to build the cheapest bridge they can and be done >>with it. This community, however, may well live with the new bridge for a >>century. We have to fight for the best solution for us. Something that >>comes to mind as we think about a new bridge downtown is that it will be >>much more pedestrian and bicycle friendly there than on Pelzer or Mankato. >>We are hoping for an increase in bike tourism via the new Wisconsin trail >>connection to Latsch Island...just think if we had a 15 foot bike lane >>instead of that agoraphobic (yet arguably simultaneously claustrohobic) >>nightmare of a sidewalk on the existing bridge? Build it and they will >>come? I don't know but cycling is a growing tourism sector and we've got >>the country (and the river) to take advantage of it. Such a feature could >>also accomodate mobility scooters, segways...who knows what the big thing >>will be in 2035...but it would be great if the bridge was flexible and >>multipurpose since it will still be the only one we have. >> >>That bike pedestrian lane could peel off into Levee Park, even. It's not >>all just about cost and eminent domain. We need a bridge that will work >>for >>the city...a simple new straight shot bridge doesn't cut it for me. With >>this project we could remove ALL through truck traffic from downtown...can >>you imagine what that would mean? It's not like MnDOT overspends in >>Winona...and more than most cities Winona is fracture critical...if our >>bridge breaks the rest of the community goes down with it...we've learned >>that first hand. >> >>Bob Sebo >> >> >> >> >>> MNDOT has the responsibility to move vehicles both cars and trucks >>> efficiently and safe. I believe that is their primary job and that is >>> why >>> it is important to provide them with input so long as that input fits >>> their >>> mission. Cost is part of efficiency and should a location or design >>> embrace >>> that I would see not logical reason that they would also agree to keep >>> and >>> open mind so that all parties and idea are on the table for >>> consideration. >> > >>> The situation we have now is terrible at best. The only thing worse >>> was >>> the >>> bridge the current on replaced or the full closure we had this month. >>> Keep >>> traffic flow, construction cost including eminent domain, safety, >>> relocation >>> and removal of homes at the top of the list and I think we will find >>> MNDOT >>> to be receptive and supportive. >>> >>> Paul Double >>> >>> >>> >>> Paul Double >>> >>> Info about Paul Double: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pauldouble >>> >>> This topic's messages may be viewed at: >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2bwY1RsO9aFkeGUS76J3NF >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> >>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," >>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >>> >>> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >>> >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net >> >> >>Bob Sebo >>East End, Winona >>Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo >> >>This topic's messages may be viewed at: >>http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >>----------------------------------------- >> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," >> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >> >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >>----------------------------------------- >>Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > > > -- > Randy Schenkat > 1358 Skyline Dr. > Winona, MN 55987 > 507-452-7168 > > Randy Schenkat > > Info about Randy Schenkat: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/randyschenkat > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7qM4aEMqQJTzH7J9JavCbO > ----------------------------------------- > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > ----------------------------------------- > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 24 22:48 UTC Short link
I was thinking of that just yesterday. I don't know for sure but
I think that the "underbridge" framing might be less bulky. If
so, it might allow the bridge driving surface to be lower - thus
shortening the access ramps.
It would be prettier too.
-Leslie Hittner
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> To: <<email obscured>>; "Randy Schenkat" <<email obscured>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 17:22 Subject: Re: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation > This is my third post for the day...I'm sorry > > Anyone else interested in the idea of a suspension bridge? :-) > > Why not pursue good architecture as well as excellence in function. > > Bob Sebo > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randy Schenkat" <<email obscured>> > To: <<email obscured>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:45 PM > Subject: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation > > > > What happens to all this wisdom that is being offered in this thread > > on Bridge Relocation? How does this Bridge process work..who > > solicits input-- is it the City, County, MDOT, our State Reps? How > > many other ideas are there? Could one of the local papers > > synthesize what's been shared to date, write a story about it, and > > ask others to comment? Could some one from WOD write a synthesis > > with a reaction section and subscribers send it on to others in > > Winona not subscribed to WOD for their feedback? > > > > Other ideas on getting something to happen with all the good ideas > > being shared? > > > > Randy Schenkat > > > >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> > >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> > >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> > >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> > >>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vida.onlinegroups.net > >>X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at hbci.com > >>From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> > >>To: "Paul Double" <<email obscured>>, > >> <<email obscured>> > >>Subject: Re: [Winona] Bridge relocation > >>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:10:42 -0500 > >>X-Priority: 3 > >>List-Post: mailto:<email obscured> > >>List-Id: winona > >>X-BeenThere: <email obscured> > >>X-Loop: <email obscured> > >>X-Archive-Id: 46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn > >>X-GSUser-Id: bobsebo > >>X-pstn-neptune: 5/1/0.20/54 > >>X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 CV:99.0000 R:95.9108 > >>P:95.9108 M:90.4903 C:99.5902 ) > >>X-pstn-settings: 5 (2.0000:2.0000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c > >>X-pstn-addresses: from <<email obscured>> [1761/74] > >> > >>Actually, Paul...I believe (and fervently hope) that MnDOT's job is to > >>facilitate the movement of people and goods and services, not cars and > >>trucks. That may seem like splitting hairs given our current reliance on > >>cars and trucks, but the fact that surfaced recently that the state > >>doesn't > >>even consider ferry service a form of transit...it reminds me of how much > >>we > >>take for granted that our roads and bridges will always look like they do > >>today. I thnk that would be a mistake. > >> > >>I think MnDOT will try to build the cheapest bridge they can and be done > >>with it. This community, however, may well live with the new bridge for a > >>century. We have to fight for the best solution for us. Something that > >>comes to mind as we think about a new bridge downtown is that it will be > >>much more pedestrian and bicycle friendly there than on Pelzer or Mankato. > >>We are hoping for an increase in bike tourism via the new Wisconsin trail > >>connection to Latsch Island...just think if we had a 15 foot bike lane > >>instead of that agoraphobic (yet arguably simultaneously claustrohobic) > >>nightmare of a sidewalk on the existing bridge? Build it and they will > >>come? I don't know but cycling is a growing tourism sector and we've got > >>the country (and the river) to take advantage of it. Such a feature could > >>also accomodate mobility scooters, segways...who knows what the big thing > >>will be in 2035...but it would be great if the bridge was flexible and > >>multipurpose since it will still be the only one we have. > >> > >>That bike pedestrian lane could peel off into Levee Park, even. It's not > >>all just about cost and eminent domain. We need a bridge that will work > >>for > >>the city...a simple new straight shot bridge doesn't cut it for me. With > >>this project we could remove ALL through truck traffic from downtown...can > >>you imagine what that would mean? It's not like MnDOT overspends in > >>Winona...and more than most cities Winona is fracture critical...if our > >>bridge breaks the rest of the community goes down with it...we've learned > >>that first hand. > >> > >>Bob Sebo > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> MNDOT has the responsibility to move vehicles both cars and trucks > >>> efficiently and safe. I believe that is their primary job and that is > >>> why > >>> it is important to provide them with input so long as that input fits > >>> their > >>> mission. Cost is part of efficiency and should a location or design > >>> embrace > >>> that I would see not logical reason that they would also agree to keep > >>> and > >>> open mind so that all parties and idea are on the table for > >>> consideration. > >> > > >>> The situation we have now is terrible at best. The only thing worse > >>> was > >>> the > >>> bridge the current on replaced or the full closure we had this month. > >>> Keep > >>> traffic flow, construction cost including eminent domain, safety, > >>> relocation > >>> and removal of homes at the top of the list and I think we will find > >>> MNDOT > >>> to be receptive and supportive. > >>> > >>> Paul Double > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Paul Double > >>> > >>> Info about Paul Double: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pauldouble > >>> > >>> This topic's messages may be viewed at: > >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2bwY1RsO9aFkeGUS76J3NF > >>> ----------------------------------------- > >>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > >>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > >>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > >>> > >>> More info about Winona Online Democracy: > >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > >>> > >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > >>> ----------------------------------------- > >>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > >> > >> > >>Bob Sebo > >>East End, Winona > >>Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo > >> > >>This topic's messages may be viewed at: > >>http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn > >>----------------------------------------- > >> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > >> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > >> > >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: > >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > >> > >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > >>----------------------------------------- > >>Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > > > > > > -- > > Randy Schenkat > > 1358 Skyline Dr. > > Winona, MN 55987 > > 507-452-7168 > > > > Randy Schenkat > > > > Info about Randy Schenkat: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/randyschenkat > > > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7qM4aEMqQJTzH7J9JavCbO > > ----------------------------------------- > > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > > ----------------------------------------- > > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > > > Bob Sebo > East End, Winona > Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5fEfV3H4wpUCkCSQwBXbHy > ----------------------------------------- > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > ----------------------------------------- > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net ---------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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From: Bob Sebo Date: Jun 25 00:09 UTC Short link
Les...I think Chris just dissed us...lol
Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leslie Hittner" <<email obscured>> To: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>>; <<email obscured>>; "Randy Schenkat" <<email obscured>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation >I was thinking of that just yesterday. I don't know for sure but > I think that the "underbridge" framing might be less bulky. If > so, it might allow the bridge driving surface to be lower - thus > shortening the access ramps. > > It would be prettier too. > > -Leslie Hittner > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> > To: <<email obscured>>; "Randy Schenkat" > <<email obscured>> > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 17:22 > Subject: Re: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation > > >> This is my third post for the day...I'm sorry >> >> Anyone else interested in the idea of a suspension bridge? > :-) >> >> Why not pursue good architecture as well as excellence in > function. >> >> Bob Sebo >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Randy Schenkat" <<email obscured>> >> To: <<email obscured>> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:45 PM >> Subject: [Winona] Fwd: Re: Bridge relocation >> >> >> > What happens to all this wisdom that is being offered in > this thread >> > on Bridge Relocation? How does this Bridge process > work..who >> > solicits input-- is it the City, County, MDOT, our State > Reps? How >> > many other ideas are there? Could one of the local papers >> > synthesize what's been shared to date, write a story about > it, and >> > ask others to comment? Could some one from WOD write a > synthesis >> > with a reaction section and subscribers send it on to others > in >> > Winona not subscribed to WOD for their feedback? >> > >> > Other ideas on getting something to happen with all the good > ideas >> > being shared? >> > >> > Randy Schenkat >> > >> >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >> >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> >> >>X-Original-To: <email obscured> >> >>Delivered-To: <email obscured> >> >>X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vida.onlinegroups.net >> >>X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at hbci.com >> >>From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> >> >>To: "Paul Double" <<email obscured>>, >> >> <<email obscured>> >> >>Subject: Re: [Winona] Bridge relocation >> >>Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:10:42 -0500 >> >>X-Priority: 3 >> >>List-Post: mailto:<email obscured> >> >>List-Id: winona >> >>X-BeenThere: <email obscured> >> >>X-Loop: <email obscured> >> >>X-Archive-Id: 46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >> >>X-GSUser-Id: bobsebo >> >>X-pstn-neptune: 5/1/0.20/54 >> >>X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 CV:99.0000 R:95.9108 >> >>P:95.9108 M:90.4903 C:99.5902 ) >> >>X-pstn-settings: 5 (2.0000:2.0000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c >> >>X-pstn-addresses: from <<email obscured>> [1761/74] >> >> >> >>Actually, Paul...I believe (and fervently hope) that MnDOT's > job is to >> >>facilitate the movement of people and goods and services, > not cars and >> >>trucks. That may seem like splitting hairs given our > current reliance on >> >>cars and trucks, but the fact that surfaced recently that > the state >> >>doesn't >> >>even consider ferry service a form of transit...it reminds > me of how much >> >>we >> >>take for granted that our roads and bridges will always look > like they do >> >>today. I thnk that would be a mistake. >> >> >> >>I think MnDOT will try to build the cheapest bridge they can > and be done >> >>with it. This community, however, may well live with the > new bridge for a >> >>century. We have to fight for the best solution for us. > Something that >> >>comes to mind as we think about a new bridge downtown is > that it will be >> >>much more pedestrian and bicycle friendly there than on > Pelzer or Mankato. >> >>We are hoping for an increase in bike tourism via the new > Wisconsin trail >> >>connection to Latsch Island...just think if we had a 15 foot > bike lane >> >>instead of that agoraphobic (yet arguably simultaneously > claustrohobic) >> >>nightmare of a sidewalk on the existing bridge? Build it > and they will >> >>come? I don't know but cycling is a growing tourism sector > and we've got >> >>the country (and the river) to take advantage of it. Such a > feature could >> >>also accomodate mobility scooters, segways...who knows what > the big thing >> >>will be in 2035...but it would be great if the bridge was > flexible and >> >>multipurpose since it will still be the only one we have. >> >> >> >>That bike pedestrian lane could peel off into Levee Park, > even. It's not >> >>all just about cost and eminent domain. We need a bridge > that will work >> >>for >> >>the city...a simple new straight shot bridge doesn't cut it > for me. With >> >>this project we could remove ALL through truck traffic from > downtown...can >> >>you imagine what that would mean? It's not like MnDOT > overspends in >> >>Winona...and more than most cities Winona is fracture > critical...if our >> >>bridge breaks the rest of the community goes down with > it...we've learned >> >>that first hand. >> >> >> >>Bob Sebo >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> MNDOT has the responsibility to move vehicles both cars > and trucks >> >>> efficiently and safe. I believe that is their primary > job and that is >> >>> why >> >>> it is important to provide them with input so long as > that input fits >> >>> their >> >>> mission. Cost is part of efficiency and should a > location or design >> >>> embrace >> >>> that I would see not logical reason that they would also > agree to keep >> >>> and >> >>> open mind so that all parties and idea are on the table > for >> >>> consideration. >> >> > >> >>> The situation we have now is terrible at best. The only > thing worse >> >>> was >> >>> the >> >>> bridge the current on replaced or the full closure we had > this month. >> >>> Keep >> >>> traffic flow, construction cost including eminent domain, > safety, >> >>> relocation >> >>> and removal of homes at the top of the list and I think > we will find >> >>> MNDOT >> >>> to be receptive and supportive. >> >>> >> >>> Paul Double >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Paul Double >> >>> >> >>> Info about Paul Double: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pauldouble >> >>> >> >>> This topic's messages may be viewed at: >> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2bwY1RsO9aFkeGUS76J3NF >> >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >>> To post, send your message to: > <email obscured> >> >>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or > "digest on," >> >>> in subject line and send to: > <email obscured> >> >>> >> >>> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> >>> >> >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >> >>> ----------------------------------------- >> >>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at > http://OnlineGroups.Net >> >> >> >> >> >>Bob Sebo >> >>East End, Winona >> >>Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo >> >> >> >>This topic's messages may be viewed at: >> >>http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn >> >>----------------------------------------- >> >> To post, send your message to: > <email obscured> >> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or > "digest on," >> >> in subject line and send to: > <email obscured> >> >> >> >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> >> >> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >> >>----------------------------------------- >> >>Technical assistance thanks to our friends at > http://OnlineGroups.Net >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Randy Schenkat >> > 1358 Skyline Dr. >> > Winona, MN 55987 >> > 507-452-7168 >> > >> > Randy Schenkat >> > >> > Info about Randy Schenkat: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/randyschenkat >> > >> > This topic's messages may be viewed at: >> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7qM4aEMqQJTzH7J9JavCbO >> > ----------------------------------------- >> > To post, send your message to: > <email obscured> >> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest > on," >> > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >> > >> > More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> > >> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >> > ----------------------------------------- >> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at > http://OnlineGroups.Net >> >> >> Bob Sebo >> East End, Winona >> Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo >> >> This topic's messages may be viewed at: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5fEfV3H4wpUCkCSQwBXbHy >> ----------------------------------------- >> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest > on," >> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> >> >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona >> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules >> ----------------------------------------- >> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at > http://OnlineGroups.Net > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1515 - Release Date: > 6/23/2008 7:16 PM >
From: Steve Kranz Date: Jun 25 01:47 UTC Short link
I think Randy has a good point . . . it would be great if these thoughtful
ideas could be seeded into a broader community discussion. I agree that a
newspaper article highlighting some of the discussion would be a great way
for the community to start to think about these issues.
Alternatively (or in addition), it would also be possible to create a
"Winona Bridge" page at e-democracy.org that provides summaries of some of
the ideas and insights coming out of this discussion, as well as pictures,
drawings, etc. People interested (or working on) the issue could then be
referred to the page. I can certainly explore creating that (and, of
course, volunteers interested in helping are always welcome).
Steve Kranz,
List Manager
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Randy Schenkat <<email obscured>>
wrote:
> What happens to all this wisdom that is being offered in this thread > on Bridge Relocation? How does this Bridge process work..who > solicits input-- is it the City, County, MDOT, our State Reps? How > many other ideas are there? Could one of the local papers > synthesize what's been shared to date, write a story about it, and > ask others to comment? Could some one from WOD write a synthesis > with a reaction section and subscribers send it on to others in > Winona not subscribed to WOD for their feedback? > > Other ideas on getting something to happen with all the good ideas > being shared? > > Randy Schenkat > > >X-Original-To: <email obscured> > >Delivered-To: <email obscured> > >X-Original-To: <email obscured> > >Delivered-To: <email obscured> > >X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at vida.onlinegroups.net > >X-Virus-Scanned: by SpamTitan at hbci.com > >From: "Bob Sebo" <<email obscured>> > >To: "Paul Double" <<email obscured>>, > > <<email obscured>> > >Subject: Re: [Winona] Bridge relocation > >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:10:42 -0500 > >X-Priority: 3 > >List-Post: mailto:<email obscured> > >List-Id: winona > >X-BeenThere: <email obscured> > >X-Loop: <email obscured> > >X-Archive-Id: 46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn > >X-GSUser-Id: bobsebo > >X-pstn-neptune: 5/1/0.20/54 > >X-pstn-levels: (S:99.90000/99.90000 CV:99.0000 R:95.9108 > >P:95.9108 M:90.4903 C:99.5902 ) > >X-pstn-settings: 5 (2.0000:2.0000) s cv gt3 gt2 gt1 r p m c > >X-pstn-addresses: from <<email obscured>> [1761/74] > > > >Actually, Paul...I believe (and fervently hope) that MnDOT's job is to > >facilitate the movement of people and goods and services, not cars and > >trucks. That may seem like splitting hairs given our current reliance on > >cars and trucks, but the fact that surfaced recently that the state > doesn't > >even consider ferry service a form of transit...it reminds me of how much > we > >take for granted that our roads and bridges will always look like they do > >today. I thnk that would be a mistake. > > > >I think MnDOT will try to build the cheapest bridge they can and be done > >with it. This community, however, may well live with the new bridge for a > >century. We have to fight for the best solution for us. Something that > >comes to mind as we think about a new bridge downtown is that it will be > >much more pedestrian and bicycle friendly there than on Pelzer or Mankato. > >We are hoping for an increase in bike tourism via the new Wisconsin trail > >connection to Latsch Island...just think if we had a 15 foot bike lane > >instead of that agoraphobic (yet arguably simultaneously claustrohobic) > >nightmare of a sidewalk on the existing bridge? Build it and they will > >come? I don't know but cycling is a growing tourism sector and we've got > >the country (and the river) to take advantage of it. Such a feature could > >also accomodate mobility scooters, segways...who knows what the big thing > >will be in 2035...but it would be great if the bridge was flexible and > >multipurpose since it will still be the only one we have. > > > >That bike pedestrian lane could peel off into Levee Park, even. It's not > >all just about cost and eminent domain. We need a bridge that will work > for > >the city...a simple new straight shot bridge doesn't cut it for me. With > >this project we could remove ALL through truck traffic from downtown...can > >you imagine what that would mean? It's not like MnDOT overspends in > >Winona...and more than most cities Winona is fracture critical...if our > >bridge breaks the rest of the community goes down with it...we've learned > >that first hand. > > > >Bob Sebo > > > > > > > > > >> MNDOT has the responsibility to move vehicles both cars and trucks > >> efficiently and safe. I believe that is their primary job and that is > why > >> it is important to provide them with input so long as that input fits > >> their > >> mission. Cost is part of efficiency and should a location or design > >> embrace > >> that I would see not logical reason that they would also agree to keep > and > >> open mind so that all parties and idea are on the table for > consideration. > > > > >> The situation we have now is terrible at best. The only thing worse > was > >> the > >> bridge the current on replaced or the full closure we had this month. > >> Keep > >> traffic flow, construction cost including eminent domain, safety, > >> relocation > >> and removal of homes at the top of the list and I think we will find > MNDOT > >> to be receptive and supportive. > >> > >> Paul Double > >> > >> > >> > >> Paul Double > >> > >> Info about Paul Double: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pauldouble > >> > >> This topic's messages may be viewed at: > >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2bwY1RsO9aFkeGUS76J3NF > >> ----------------------------------------- > >> To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > >> in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > >> > >> More info about Winona Online Democracy: > >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > >> > >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > >> ----------------------------------------- > >> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net<http://onlinegroups.net/> > > > > > >Bob Sebo > >East End, Winona > >Info about Bob Sebo: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bobsebo > > > >This topic's messages may be viewed at: > >http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/46OJ3YCgNPAoMp7JRrKBOn > >----------------------------------------- > > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > >----------------------------------------- > >Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net<http://onlinegroups.net/> > > > -- > Randy Schenkat > 1358 Skyline Dr. > Winona, MN 55987 > 507-452-7168 > > Randy Schenkat > > Info about Randy Schenkat: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/randyschenkat > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7qM4aEMqQJTzH7J9JavCbO > ----------------------------------------- > To post, send your message to: <email obscured> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," > in subject line and send to: <email obscured> > > More info about Winona Online Democracy: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > ----------------------------------------- > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net<http://onlinegroups.net/> > -- Steve Kranz 338 Pleasant Hill Dr. Winona, MN 55987 507.474.0985 <email obscured>
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