All posts in the topic Food security for Canterbury (Short link)

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andrew wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 13:36 +1200, Brian Sandle wrote:
>
>> I feel the Canterbury Plains with the proposed irrigation scheme may be
>> a target for GMO biofuels and feed crops, with disaster in store for
>> us.
>>
>
> I agree, Brian, it would be a disaster. We're now well into the period
> that James Kunstler has dubbed the "Long Emergency" [1]. It's not your
> classic civil defence emergency that triggers our fight or flight
> response, and it's not business as usual which triggers our "sit on your
> backside and do nothing" response :-) - it's a whole new animal to deal
> with but deal with it we must.
>
> I think it's time for ECan, CCC and other groups to get together to do
> some strategic planning around medium-to-long term food security for the
> region. I know this is not within the normal scope of either agency, but
> these are not normal times ...
>
> Are there any politicians in the group (who are still listening)
> prepared to comment on this ?
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Emergency
>
>
>
> Andrew Groom
> Bryndwr, Christchurch
>
>
It's going to be quite hard.

As I showed some in Government are trying to use the food security
argument to promote GMOs.

It  would help if Government gave more money to public good research.

Here is an example of how AgResearch, set up from public money, is
forming alliances with big overseas companies to get funding. Those
companies can then start to call the tune by threatenuing to pull out.

http://www.ruraldelivery.net.nz/absolutenm/templates/issuesTemplate.asp?articleid=237&zoneid=5
"Roger: Who are some of these big companies? Are we talking Monsanto,
Syngenta, De Pont?

Danny: All of those companies, Merck Sharpe and Dome and so on, all
these are large international chemical companies."

Here is an example of the political influence of the company producing
bovine growth hormone, to get it approved, then giving vets money to
promote it, then the vets would get more work treating the cows who it
made sick.

http://www.politicalfriendster.com/rateConnection.php?id1=5580&id2=89

And when we had the GM maize accidental release in NZ here is the sort
of talk that was happening

www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/regs/imports/plants/gm-seeds/appendix-4.pdf
"However, what if the GM
seeds came from another source and not Pacific Seeds? We will have to
wait for results
before this can be addressed.
• Barry O’Neil (MAF) confirmed that MAF will not release any information
without
consultation with Pacific Seeds about the accuracy of the information,
and Pacific Seeds
are committed to giving this issue the highest priority.
• David Wansbrough (MAF) said that a request under the Official
Information Act for the
information presented by the company is highly likely. Howard Morris
confirmed that
the company had prepared the folder with that in mind and was prepared
for the folder to
be released. However, he was very concerned not to release partial
information before
final conclusions had been drawn.
Pukekohe crop
• Pacific Seeds have not asked if GeneScan can specify which YieldGard
types (MON810,
MON809, MON802) were present."

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Morris" <theyellowroom@xtra.co.nz>
To: <canterburyissues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Food security for Canterbury


> But even if there was no armageddon (and that will only happen if we are
> boring enough to keep doing things the way we currently are, snore...)
> doesn't the idea of an urban edible forest sound appealling?
>  Matt Morris
>
> Tim Kerr <Tim.Kerr@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
>  Cripes!!!!
>
> What date is Armaggeddon?
>
> Just wondering....
>
> Tim Kerr.....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Morris"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 11:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Food security for Canterbury
>
>
>> Hi Andrew
>> from a Community Board perspective I can say that I couldn't agree more.
>> We can do a lot better than we are doing in terms of enhancing our food
>> security. Community gardens and school gardens are obviously part of the
>> solution.
>> But there are even simpler options we could look at that would at least
>> help. One, planting fruit and nut trees in streets and/or parks is, you'd
>> think, a complete no brainer, a very easy means of future-proofing.
>> However, when I asked the question recently council staff informed me
>> that
>> there is actually a policy stating that such trees mustn't be planted!
>> On the up-side, the Shirley-Papanui community board has formally endorsed
>> the Transition Communities model as it applies to our ward, and we are
>> now
>> exploring how this appalling policy about fruit trees can be ammended. We
>> have also built supporting community gardens into our board objectives...
>> a small step but hopefully a meaningful one.
>> A joint discussion between the agencies you mentioned seems like a great
>> idea to me.
>>
>> Matt Morris
>> Chair, Greenspace and Traffic Works Committee
>> Shirley Papanui Community Board
>>
>>
>> andrew wrote:
>> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 13:36 +1200, Brian Sandle wrote:
>>> I feel the Canterbury Plains with the proposed irrigation scheme may be
>>> a target for GMO biofuels and feed crops, with disaster in store for
>>> us.
>>
>> I agree, Brian, it would be a disaster. We're now well into the period
>> that James Kunstler has dubbed the "Long Emergency" [1]. It's not your
>> classic civil defence emergency that triggers our fight or flight
>> response, and it's not business as usual which triggers our "sit on your
>> backside and do nothing" response :-) - it's a whole new animal to deal
>> with but deal with it we must.
>>
>> I think it's time for ECan, CCC and other groups to get together to do
>> some strategic planning around medium-to-long term food security for the
>> region. I know this is not within the normal scope of either agency, but
>> these are not normal times ...
>>
>> Are there any politicians in the group (who are still listening)
>> prepared to comment on this ?
>>
>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Emergency
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew Groom
>> Bryndwr, Christchurch
>> Info about Andrew Groom: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/andrewgroom
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1vbmzYtxRK2HyQxqUFTjwF
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>> -----------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>> Matt Morris
>>
>> Info about Matt Morris: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/mattmorris
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2OeaZDw2XUnrSpfLX8QbuD
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>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
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>
> Tim Kerr
>
> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7hXkBtcUDlaPwVjR9zBTy2
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>
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>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
> Matt Morris
>
> Info about Matt Morris: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/mattmorris
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/YGMCf0fYhFt4AvsQSsACa
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3:51 PM

andrew wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 13:36 +1200, Brian Sandle wrote:
>
>> I feel the Canterbury Plains with the proposed irrigation scheme may be
>> a target for GMO biofuels and feed crops, with disaster in store for
>> us.
>>
>
> I agree, Brian, it would be a disaster. We're now well into the period
> that James Kunstler has dubbed the "Long Emergency" [1]. It's not your
> classic civil defence emergency that triggers our fight or flight
> response, and it's not business as usual which triggers our "sit on your
> backside and do nothing" response :-) - it's a whole new animal to deal
> with but deal with it we must.
>
> I think it's time for ECan, CCC and other groups to get together to do
> some strategic planning around medium-to-long term food security for the
> region. I know this is not within the normal scope of either agency, but
> these are not normal times ...
>
> Are there any politicians in the group (who are still listening)
> prepared to comment on this ?
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Emergency

All you can say is that grog-minded revenue-gatherers (belt-looseners)
will remain clueless, with nothing of substance to say to the public at
large. - Hence the 'leadership' vacuum on this forum, from vacuous
'celebrity'. It is cheaper, for them, to extend the ancient Middle East
carnage instead. No wonder it is being replicated on our city streets
(sayeth The Press 23/6/08). Roll on 2010.

The silence masks illogical and outmoded insistence that more irrigated
pasture, through artificial water storage, is going to somehow help
Canterbury survive the crisis it is part of creating - this "climate
adaptation" sales pitch is really climate aggravation, at the public
expense. It is a completely wrong direction, in terms of secure food
supply - so what is it, actually? (Just who is the 'Selwyn Plantation
Board' returning its dairy profits to? They once grew trees; check the
directors' fees.)

Halt climate exploitation, we must.

See also "Canterbury Energy strategy" thread:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/AxMuilUAnFucrptwYH1FP

----- Original Message -----
From: "andrew" <andrew@reurbanise.co.nz>
To: <canterburyissues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Food security for Canterbury


> Hi Rik,
>
> Thanks for your comments on energy and food security for the region -
> very interesting reading.
>
> I'd only add one point: when you say that we need to put an end to
> hunger, I think it's the *way* we do that that is critical to our
> survival. I believe that instead of increasing food production (which,
> as Malthus has shown [1], inevitably leads to more people and therefore
> bigger food problems, and so on), we need to be actively reducing the
> population of the Canterbury region, both human and bovine.
>
> The case of Tikopia is relevant here, I believe [2]:
>
> "Tikopians practice an intensive permaculture system, similar in
> principle to forest gardening and the gardens of the New Guinea
> highlands. Their agricultural practices are strongly and consciously
> tied to the population density. For example, around 1600 A.D, the people
> agreed to slaughter all pigs on the island, and substitute fishing,
> because the pigs were taking too much food that could be eaten by
> people."
>
> Presumably the pigs themselves were eaten by people, but that was
> obviously a less efficient way of getting nutrition from a fixed amount
> of land.
>
> So, how can we realistically limit the population of Canterbury ? A good
> start would be to cap the amount of residential land in the region. To
> do this, we would allow land to revert to either rural zoning or have
> the development rights transferred to another location closer to an
> urban centre for higher density development. I believe this is already
> done overseas as a way of combating urban sprawl [3].
>
> The next step would be to start to gradually *reduce* the amount of
> residential land in a given urban area, or allow for the possibility of
> transferring that residential "credit" to another centre. This might
> help redistribute a greater number of people closer to the agricultural
> activities that will play a greater part in all of our lives in the
> coming years.
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthus#The_Principle_of_Population
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikopia
> [3] http://www.smartcommunities.ncat.org/landuse/transfer.shtml
>
> On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 01:55 +1200, Rik Tindall wrote:
>> Hello Andrew and CPI Forum,
>>
>> Firstly, of course, it is Federated Farmers that just added GMOs as
>> wave-riding atop the current (3, 6, or 9-yearly) self-defeating reflex
>> swing to the (resource-) exploitative political right:  'genetically
>> modified cattle-feed is needed to help feed the world' they say. So this
>> tops the list of the myths to be busted, in real food security planning.
>> (Cows take food and climate stability from people - it is them or us,
>> ultimately.) Then comes the anti green biofuel offensive, that would
>> grow uncontrolled poisoning emissions instead.
>>
>> Out of these two responses comes stage 1 of the viable, sustainable end
>> to starvation; and it's about time starvation became unacceptable to
>> all. Market faith, of course, has been the misguided cause of most
>> such wastage of humans in our time. So at last - with the credit crunch,
>> lit-fuse inflation, declining living, social, moral, and environmental
>> conditions, etc. - the market implodes its own myth of permanent
>> salvation, to be revealed as the heart of the (waste) problem; the meat
>> market, in particular (habituated bestial killing) - soon to be outmoded
>> by quality and quantity vegetable protein.
>>
>> Welcome is this invitation to outline the means for rapidly initiating
>> food security for Canterbury, and for the world. The answer is really
>> very simple. It begins with understanding - as only temporary - the
>> historic phase of cattle-herding. The market now demands a return of
>> land to seed, grain, and vegetable production, for feeding people better
>> with water efficiency and reduced emissions.
>>
>> Required is immediate public pressure on the Food Safety Authority via
>> government, to authorise hemp seed flour for human consumption. Hemp oil
>> is on sale, but the nutritious seed residue (Omega 3,6,9) goes to waste
>> - preventing an economy of scale for this quick-growing and
>> non-demanding energy crop. It requires little in the way of water,
>> pesticide, or fertiliser - being a nitrogen fixer - so really is the
>> answer for Canterbury's soil care too. ECan should be asked to request
>> this policy change from Government, in the same way that it secured a
>> National Environmental Standard for Air Quality to help bring in cleaner
>> heating - *authorise hemp seed flour for human consumption*.
>>
>> Our goal is to provide farmers with a revenue source surpassing that of
>> thirsty and polluting (A1) dairy production. Hemp will do that not only
>> through its great food value, but through the 2nd-generation biofuel
>> made from the rest of the plant and specific non-food plantings. It is a
>> true petroleum substitute, for making clothes, plastic and building
>> materials too. Hemp butter and milk can also be made from the seed, for
>> full food substitution.
>>
>> Cows are on the way out - not humans. "Over-population" relates to the
>> total mammalian load that our present, inefficient economic forms place
>> upon the Earth - not simply the breathing human portion of it. In NZ the
>> cattle population is over 7 million, rising annually - nearing double
>> the human population. But at approximately four times the average body
>> mass of a human being, those cattle will soon have eight times the
>> biological impact upon 'Clean Green Aotearoa-NZ' that people have, at
>> least. In global terms, "it's them or us" - get used to this choice; it
>> is one we are all going to have to make.
>>
>> andrew wrote:
>> > On Sun, 2008-06-08 at 13:36 +1200, Brian Sandle wrote:
>> >
>> >> I feel the Canterbury Plains with the proposed irrigation scheme may
>> >> be
>> >> a target for GMO biofuels and feed crops, with disaster in store for
>> >> us.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I agree, Brian, it would be a disaster. We're now well into the period
>> > that James Kunstler has dubbed the "Long Emergency" [1]. It's not your
>> > classic civil defence emergency that triggers our fight or flight
>> > response, and it's not business as usual which triggers our "sit on
>> > your
>> > backside and do nothing" response :-) - it's a whole new animal to deal
>> > with but deal with it we must.
>> >
>> > I think it's time for ECan, CCC and other groups to get together to do
>> > some strategic planning around medium-to-long term food security for
>> > the
>> > region. I know this is not within the normal scope of either agency,
>> > but
>> > these are not normal times ...
>> >
>> > Are there any politicians in the group (who are still listening)
>> > prepared to comment on this ?
>> >
>> > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long_Emergency
>>
>> All you can say is that grog-minded revenue-gatherers (belt-looseners)
>> will remain clueless, with nothing of substance to say to the public at
>> large. - Hence the 'leadership' vacuum on this forum, from vacuous
>> 'celebrity'. It is cheaper, for them, to extend the ancient Middle East
>> carnage instead. No wonder it is being replicated on our city streets
>> (sayeth The Press 23/6/08). Roll on 2010.
>>
>> The silence masks illogical and outmoded insistence that more irrigated
>> pasture, through artificial water storage, is going to somehow help
>> Canterbury survive the crisis it is part of creating - this "climate
>> adaptation" sales pitch is really climate aggravation, at the public
>> expense. It is a completely wrong direction, in terms of secure food
>> supply - so what is it, actually? (Just who is the 'Selwyn Plantation
>> Board' returning its dairy profits to? They once grew trees; check the
>> directors' fees.)
>>
>> Halt climate exploitation, we must.
>>
>> See also "Canterbury Energy strategy" thread:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/AxMuilUAnFucrptwYH1FP
>>
>>
>>
>> Richard Tindall
>> Cashmere &amp; South Christchurch most recently., Christchurch /
>> O-Tautahi
>> Info about Rik Tindall: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/riktindall
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3mKjLqriqDpfJfeNuZUCAg
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>>
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>>
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>> -----------------------------------------
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>
>
> Andrew Groom
> Bryndwr, Christchurch
> Info about Andrew Groom: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/andrewgroom
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rik Tindall" <ask@infohelp.co.nz>
To: <canterburyissues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 2:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Food security for Canterbury


> Hi Andrew,
>
> Thanks for your thought-provoking post, and congratulations on your new
> role for CPIF. Many thanks to Dan for his solid service to e-democracy,
> that you will now be continuing to the same very high standard I'm sure.
>
> And greetings Garry Moore. As a new entrant to local politics, East
> Christchurch representation, and to Travis Wetland walks, I have only
> recently discovered the fine contribution to biodiversity conservation
> that you have made, from early in your career, there. Thankyou greatly
> for your part in that work. What an awesome community project.
>
> So, to the present discussion..
>
> andrew wrote:
>> Hi Rik,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments on energy and food security for the region -
>> very interesting reading.
>>
>> I'd only add one point: when you say that we need to put an end to
>> hunger, I think it's the *way* we do that that is critical to our
>> survival. I believe that instead of increasing food production (which,
>> as Malthus has shown [1], inevitably leads to more people and therefore
>> bigger food problems, and so on), we need to be actively reducing the
>> population of the Canterbury region, both human and bovine.
>
> As a key mover in the Urban Development Strategy, I am sure that Garry
> would concur that there are immense drivers towards Christchurch and
> Canterbury population growth, practically unstoppable (e.g. NZ govt
> factoring us in). For that reason, as well as the global food demand,
> and more, I believe we have no choice but to play our unavoidable part
> in increased food production. Making it a question of which kind of food
> production, that farmers need incentive from.
>
> Grains, pulses and seeds were specialties of our arable region, and need
> to be again - rewarding farmers as prices rise - for the calorific value
> per hectare output. Nitrogen management and biomass byproducts, with
> cellulose-producing rotations, are the keys to soil and water protection
> while maximising the energy fixed from the sun. It must be possible to
> grow food/energy more efficiently than we are now, and with less
> chemical risk to our environment, solar-powered. This is a matter of
> economic structures, renewable.
>
> The thing about bovine over-population is that we have very specific
> statistical and epidemiological frameworks to work within.
>
> For a start, herd reduction to remove the A1 risk factor to human health
> is growing into a moral imperative upon the dairy industry, should
> affirmative action not begin soon. Substandard product merely awaits
> official standards to catch up with it. An irresponsible, 'catch it if
> you can / get away with it' (profiteering) attitude still dominates use
> of rural, natural resources - a hardened culture of regulatory
> non-compliance - and this must inevitably be changed, although of course
> there are very many good and responsible producers undermined by that
> regressive culture. Which is why accountability is nigh.
>
> We can calculate exactly how many cows are sustainable in Canterbury,
> and begin working towards that number.
>
> 4 per cent. Just 4% of the current herd is what we need to meet local
> dairy demand, for this is the figure Fontera announced earlier this
> month for NZ consumption of its total product. Allowing for near future
> growth in Canterbury/NZ citizenry, let's say 5% may become local demand.
>
> 5% of seven million (the present NZ cattle population, which includes
> steers) is 350,000 - a generous allocation of total cattle numbers. Now,
> at 400,000 out of 4 million Kiwis, Canterbury's proportion of the NZ
> human population is 10%. So that means 35,000 cows will meet local dairy
> demand - a few more, or a few less. 35,000 is the limit of bovine
> loading that Canterbury should, for the forseeable future, ever have to
> accept.
>
> There is no assumable right of intervention below that figure, because
> people have the right to produce milk, to sell milk, to buy milk, and to
> consume milk. But no more right than that. The problem with the current
> system is that there is no moral right for people to export milk,
> dehydrated, through the burning of coal. The carbon emission cost of
> this practice, to every taxpayer (under emissions trading or not) is why
> it must be stopped with haste. 35,000 cows can live here, and no more,
> under equity.
>
> How will the surplus cow number be restrained? Many believe that
> emission share trading adds to waste problems more than it solves them -
> administrative overheads, auditing difficulties, etc. - such that we
> need a more urgent and direct measure.
>
> We have already seen failure of the Labour Government's "fart tax". This
> was a misnomer, that targeted the wrong end of our largest-polluting
> animal. That's because the nitrous dioxide emanating from cow urine as
> it breaks down in the ground even exceeds the greenhouse gas effect of
> the methane and carbon dioxide these domesticated, over-abundant
> creatures also make threateningly. The 'fart tax' aimed at the latter
> gases, and tried to cost them, but the greater risk to air - and
> particularly water - was missed. So we need an effective, more justified
> dissuader instead.
>
> Allow me to propose the Bovine Use of Resource Penalty - a BURP tax - to
> systematically resolve the mounting threat to our water, atmospheric,
> and ecological environment today.
>
> This urgent measure would suffice to quickly limit the assassins of
> under-developed peoples, and of consumer credit, as is both due and
> equitable. Farm investors should calculate the local proportion of
> 35,000 cows, as their allowable herd size, and expect to face a highly
> prohibitive BURP tax on every Daisy head beyond that.
>
>> The case of Tikopia is relevant here, I believe [2]:
>>
>> "Tikopians practice an intensive permaculture system, similar in
>> principle to forest gardening and the gardens of the New Guinea
>> highlands. Their agricultural practices are strongly and consciously
>> tied to the population density. For example, around 1600 A.D, the people
>> agreed to slaughter all pigs on the island, and substitute fishing,
>> because the pigs were taking too much food that could be eaten by
>> people."
>>
>> Presumably the pigs themselves were eaten by people, but that was
>> obviously a less efficient way of getting nutrition from a fixed amount
>> of land.
>
> A most true a parallel.
>
>> So, how can we realistically limit the population of Canterbury? A good
>> start would be to cap the amount of residential land in the region. To
>> do this, we would allow land to revert to either rural zoning or have
>> the development rights transferred to another location closer to an
>> urban centre for higher density development. I believe this is already
>> done overseas as a way of combating urban sprawl [3].
>
> Also, we should initiate a political shift from GDP to GPI economic
> valuations. That is, the rise in undertaker work - from alcohol and
> P-based violence, and from the frenetic speed-up warring cyclists off
> the road - all adds to GDP: a truly insane trading system.
>
>> The next step would be to start to gradually *reduce* the amount of
>> residential land in a given urban area, or allow for the possibility of
>> transferring that residential "credit" to another centre. This might
>> help redistribute a greater number of people closer to the agricultural
>> activities that will play a greater part in all of our lives in the
>> coming years.
>
> Which would be better for everyone, towards quality of life: labour and
> skills shortages are what will eventually break society, I believe, and
> hunger can amplify those processes. Beyond a certain point, irrational
> economics - meaning 'the market (manipulating fear and desire) can fix
> everything' - can no longer maintain itself, and will implode upon its
> base motivation. We have a rapidly closing window through which to head
> off that animal fate.
>
>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthus#The_Principle_of_Population
>
> The most appropriate adaptation to Malthusian limit is to reduce global
> poverty, to increase global living standards - through infrastructural
> improvement of water, housing, medical, education, and especially food
> supplies, everywhere - so that poor people can afford to breed less.
> Immediately, this means removing the pressure of luxury dairy produce
> upon those food and water supplies for which the disadvantaged are
> having to compete. Then we must resolve the growing international
> resource contests, such that military budgets can be diverted into the
> world's necessity-supply structure, to stem population growth. ('Plan A'
> seems to be to starve, by 'market accident', the 'surplus human
> population', with devastating shades of holocaust.)
>
> The remedy is all doable, via united popular support, since 'we' made
> the problem (pre-rationally) as an evolving social species (like bees
> and ants). It is also most urgent, because the dinosaur-scale writing is
> on the ecological cave wall, science says (with no better insight
> available to us than that) and with an increasingly primal voice.
>
> This is about mammals exhausting plant-life oxygen, by killing the seas,
> forests and biodiversity, creating enough heat to bring on the biggest
> ice age Earth has seen for an inestimable time - to wipe all mammals and
> oxygen breathers out - potentially.
>
>> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikopia
>> [3] http://www.smartcommunities.ncat.org/landuse/transfer.shtml
>
> So we need to get on with it, and fast.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Regards, Rik
>
> Richard Tindall
> Cashmere &amp; South Christchurch most recently., Christchurch / O-Tautahi
> Info about Rik Tindall: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/riktindall
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5bkUjL3kF5DUofBsNHEeMN
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>
> A good start is waking up to reality.
>
> Cheers,
> C