All posts in the topic School buses for high school students (Short link)
Summary
- There are 8 posts — by 7 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Joe Nathan at Oct 11 16:52 UTC
David Brauer notes in today's MinnPost "Daily Glean": "A couple of interesting
schools datapoints: Enrollment in Southwest Minneapolis high schools is
climbing, the Southwest Journal's Dylan Thomas reports. That's
counterintuitive, given the district's recent enrollment declines. Maybe one
reason is horrible bus times for charter schools? Public districts provide
charter transportation, but the Twin Cities Daily Planet's James Sanna notes
Minneapolis charters had to take a horrible start time: 10:15 a.m. Many
declined, meaning parents were on their own."
Which brings up a question that has nagged me for a long time: why do high
school students have daily school buses? Or, why aren't high school students
using the city bus system? They are old enough to be able to do that. It would
be yards cheaper to give the kids discounted bus cards and have them use the
city system.
Maybe some other lister knows a law that says we cannot use the bus system, but
must have school buses.
WIZARD MARKS <wizardmarks@q.com> said: > Which brings up a question that has nagged me for a long time: why do high school students have daily school buses? Or, why aren't high school students using the city bus system? They are old enough to be able to do that. It would be yards cheaper to give the kids discounted bus cards and have them use the city system. Lifted from the Federal Transit Administration website: "Federal transit laws and regulations place limitations on the use of public transportation to transport students to and from school and school-sponsored activities or trips in competition with private transportation providers. In general, recipients of Federal Transit Administration grants cannot provide transportation for students and school personnel if that transportation excludes the general public or competes with private school bus operators." Read more at: http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/SchoolBusBrochureJanuary19-2005.pdf Yes it would be much cheaper for public buses to add this service onto their portfolio of services and just divert existing public buses to do this. But federal law prohibits it. Carol Becker Longfellow
What do we need to do to get this ridiculous law changed. Just me writing my reps wont do it. This is an example of how federal law is out of touch with reality. The school bus companies must have had a better lobbyist than the school boards. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Carol shared: In general, recipients of Federal Transit Administration grants cannot provide transportation for students and school personnel if that transportation excludes the general public or competes with private school bus operators." Read more at: http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/SchoolBusBrochureJanuary19-2005.pdf Yes it would be much cheaper for public buses to add this service onto their portfolio of services and just divert existing public buses to do this. But federal law prohibits it.
I believe Carol and Ron have misread the FTA rules here. There is nothing in the statute to prevent students from using regularly scheduled bus service to get to school. If you look at page 2 of the cited FTA publication, you will see a section on so-called "tripper" service. This would seem to apply to having high school students using the public transit system to get to school so long as they are using regularly scheduled service. What the FTA rules prohibit is subsidized carriers using their equipment to go into the school bus business. http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/SchoolBusBrochureJanuary19-2005.pdf Charlie Swope St. Paul
Just as an added note. In high school, I lived in Madison WI. There were no school buses at all. Students rode public buses and the bus service was set up to deal with making sure all students were near a bus route. I could buy a bus pass at school which was a punch card back then. It was not subsidized that I could see, the cash fare I would pay was the same as the punch card. My brother, in middle school did the same. My sister, in grade school, walked. No student ever had to worry about missing their bus, another would be along soon. To my knowledge, its still done this way now. It works there and can work here. School buses to me are not a good expenditure of school funding. Maybe we could afford books if we stopped bussing. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Charlie wrote: I believe Carol and Ron have misread the FTA rules here. There is nothing in the statute to prevent students from using regularly scheduled bus service to get to school. If you look at page 2 of the cited FTA publication, you will see a section on so-called "tripper" service. This would seem to apply to having high school students using the public transit system to get to school so long as they are using regularly scheduled service. What the FTA rules prohibit is subsidized carriers using their equipment to go into the school bus business. http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/SchoolBusBrochureJanuary19-2005.pdf
It sounds like we should look into changeing this federal law. It should be part of both the School Board and the City Council's legislative agendas. I don't see any problem with competing with private users, but obviously it will (and should) compete with the private school bus operators. Cam Gordon Seward > Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 12:58:38 +0000> To: <email obscured>> Subject: Re: [Mpls] School buses for high school students> From: <email obscured>> > WIZARD MARKS <wizardmarks@q.com> said:> > > Which brings up a question that has nagged me for a long time: why do high> school students have daily school buses? Or, why aren't high school students> using the city bus system? They are old enough to be able to do that. It would> be yards cheaper to give the kids discounted bus cards and have them use the> city system.> > Lifted from the Federal Transit Administration website: > > "Federal transit laws and regulations place limitations on the use of public> transportation to transport students to and from school and school-sponsored > activities or trips in competition with private transportation providers.> > In general, recipients of Federal Transit Administration grants cannot provide> transportation for students and school personnel if that transportation> excludes the general public or competes with private school bus operators."> > Read more at: > > http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/SchoolBusBrochureJanuary19-2005.pdf> > Yes it would be much cheaper for public buses to add this service onto their> portfolio of services and just divert existing public buses to do this. But> federal law prohibits it. > > Carol Becker> Longfellow> > > > Carol Becker> Longfellow, Minneapolis> Info about Carol Becker: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/carolbecker> > This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7do5k1bNiBQkZzWkeeNmdD>
Cam, not sure you saw my posts from Tom Madden, and several other folks,
including me. MTC buses CAN carry students so long as MTC does not design
special routes JUST for students and so long as both students and other
riders can use the stops that are part of a route. This was confirmed by a
federal attorney with whom I spoke in Chicago. MPS School Board member
Madden pointed out that the district is using MTC buses in some situations.
Perhaps the City Council would like to convene a working group of
Minneapolis Public School (MPS), charter public school folks, MTC and other
people to discuss ways to work together. Charter school educators have
proposed a cooperative transportation task force several times to MPS
officials. To help everyone save money and energy, perhaps the City Council
would like to serve as a convenor.
Joe Nathan
Humphrey Institute
University of Minnestoa