No, you don't need more coffee, Bill. You are asking nicely-focused
questions about one of the sacrosanct new "sustainable" techniques being
used, that are not usually being asked. There is a
"commons" underground that somehow, Wild West-like, every urban "green" who
can afford the rather large expense of geothermal feels he can exploit at
will, and for free if he can float the system cost.
If I remember right from a few years ago when I spoke with an engineer
about it, these geothermal systems require not just an enormous depth (see
what Mark indicates about his geothermal well depth), but a fairly good
surface area, as well. So, your typical townhouse on tight city space will
not be able to go it alone installing a new system. Those who can afford
geothermal will probably be limited to large-lot residential properties in
far-north Northeast, where Mark lives, or the porous-soiled, wet-ish
Southwest Minneapolis.
As with water wells 150 years ago (most in Minneapolis that are not for
industrial uses--there are several big wells still in use in the Mid-City
Industrial Area--have long since been outlawed because the aquifer water is
so polluted), there is a degradation of the resource involved.
I know Minneapolis makes residents who install solar systems on their roofs
jump through a number of regulatory hoops. Is it the case that Minneapolis
has not yet studied what geothermal systems require to be long-term safe
for all of us, and regulate that? Is there a list of how much or how many
geothermal systems Minneapolis has, to date, in residential areas, and
where they are? Has anyone thought to study the effects those systems are
having on our ground?
I'm glad you're raising these questions about what happens to the shared
underground resources we have in Minneapolis.
And sure, get some coffee.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Bill Kahn <
Rest of post
<email obscured>> wrote:
> Now I thought, and I wasn't sure, that Wizard was concerned about thermal
> pollution, not what Mark has addressed. In other words, What would happen
> if everyone did this? The ground temperature at a certain depth is pretty
> stable unless an area is seismically active and heated by magma. How much
> can we do to affect this?
>
> I've thought about this because we do do it "slapdash" as Wizard put it,
> and not as a utility where the use of a common resource, the connected
> ground and aquifers beneath our properties, would be regulated by something
> like the PUC. At some point, Will the problem be that we make the
> temperature difference small enough to degrade the resource?
>
> There was a time when no contractor would touch a urban geothermal system
> and I always thought it was because of money, but is this a "tragedy of the
> commons" resource? Can we degrade the thermal gradient of the earth around
> our wells to the point of making them useless? I guess not as we move heat
> the opposite ways, it is a question more like carrying capacity, where you
> can only have so many of these systems per acre or they will all not work
> anymore. I suppose there is a real answer for an expert, or someone less
> lazy than me (I got other stuff to do today) to give to offer a slution.
>
> Is there a need to have this stuff regulated? Who owns the heat beneath
> us? Us? Or Them, whom ever them is? Is them who the guvmint grants a
> franchise to for us to give money to in order to use it? Franchises would
> have to provide a common access to the sink for or source of, depending on
> the season, thermal energy.
>
> Slapdash it is, I guess, until someone explains all this to us and we have
> to write more or better laws. Coffee. I need coffee.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 15, 2017, at 8:51 AM, Mark Snyder <<email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > It works similar to the cooling system on an automotive engine, meaning
> > basically heat exchange between the ground and the fully-enclosed piping
> > network that the wells are drilled for.
>
>
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
> encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
> tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
>
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