All posts in the topic Building democracy and community online in Oxford - Volunteer query (Short link)
Summary
- There are 18 posts — by 8 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by nicholas fell at Nov 24 11:08 UTC
It was great to meet many of the people involved in efforts to build
neighbourhood Issues Forums across Oxford the other month.
The E-Democracy.Org model is citizen-based and now is the time to strengthen
that base in Oxford. While we appreciate the role of the Council in promoting
these forums, it is only with local public involvement that they will grow and
become fully "of" the community.
We are planning to increase the role of a community-wide Oxford E-Democracy
Steering Committee made up of volunteers, forum managers, council staff, etc.
who want to help grow our existing forums and spread to the final three
neighborhoods. Ideally, your neighbourhood's forum manager will be joined by at
least one other participant (particularly those interested in outreach) on this
"virtual" and sometimes in-person committee.
Would you like more information? Tell us a bit about yourself and your
interests in using the Internet to build local community. Please e-mail with
"Oxford" in the subject line to:
<email obscured>
In the past when our forums were only city-wide, we had one committee per
forum. Now with multiple forums per community, we plan to shift to one
committee per community to make things more simple and effective.
The committee is essential to provide local governance over the local forums.
This committee guides the overall local forum effort, is a point of appeal for
official rule violations, and will work to help grow participation in your
forums. If a new local forum manager is needed, this committee confirms their
appointment and is there to assist them as well as make sure the civility and
inclusive agenda-setting mission of these forums is met.
As local forum managers replace interim forum manager Shey Cobley (thank you
Shey!) in CSW and Cowley, we want to help you increase the number of
participants on your forums significantly. In my own neighborhood -
http://e-democracy.org/se - where I too volunteer as a forum manager, we've
primarily increased our numbers to 300 with paper sign-up sheets at the right
community events. With a committee in place to push recruitment, we can share
our lessons with you. Imagine what it might mean for your neighborhood if 200,
300 or more people were interacting on local public issues everyday. It can and
will make a real difference in the future of your neighbourhood.
Sincerely,
Steven Clift
E-Democracy.Org
Electronic Democracy cannot work effectively when you have Electronic
Censorship at the same time, Democracy can only work effectively if people are
allowed to say what they really think openly, by freedom of speech and freedom
of expression. In England Politics is done by the witty put down and the use
of sarcasm, and the taunting gibe, and the use of ruthless humour. Here in
England we have a way of being able to be politely yet superbly rude to people
and about people, which is as it should be. We should be able to be rude to
people if we wish frankly, in a Spitting Image, Private Eye magazine style.
That in my opinion should be allowed.
Don't ever be afraid to tell someone exactly what you think of them. The
British are very good at the cultured yet extremely cutting insult, I wouldn't
have it any other way.
Democracy in Britain comes from things like Residents Associations, Civil
Parish Councils and City and County Councils and Central Government and the use
of the Ballot Box at Elections, and the rule of Law and Order. Which is held
together by the Police, the Courts and the Royal Family and the Church.
Having Council Staff on a Steering Committee is utterly counter productive if
you want a forum that is OF the community, it would defeat the very object of
the exercise.
Cowley and CSW hardly seem to be functioning these days, don't run before you
can walk.
Nicholas:
To quote your own words:
"Don't ever be afraid to tell someone exactly what you think of them. The
British are very good at the cultured yet extremely cutting insult, I wouldn't
have it any other way."
So... your English is atrocious; your views are bizarre; your manners are
appalling and you frequently verge on the slanderous. Some of us were dismayed
when you reneged on your statement of October 23rd that you would never post on
this forum again.
Well... I'm only doing what you suggested: "Don't ever be afraid to tell
someone exactly what you think of them."
Could we move away from personal remarks please and consider at what Steven of
e-Democracy has to say.
It seems a good idea to have just one steering committee to cover all six
Oxford forums. Do other people agree with Nicholas that it would be a bad idea
to have council staff on such a committee?
Is anyone on this forum interested in joining such a committee?
I'm writing as a council officer - at the moment, and as a resident in Marston.
Some of us can claim for overtime, but not all (it depends on your grade, i.e.
level of responsibility). Speaking for myself (and not as a council
employee), I'm part time. I take home less than 20k I do masses and masses
of work in my own time, for which I'll never be paid or get time off, because
of the grade I'm on. and that's fine, that's my choice. but my heart sinks
when someone proposes a Saturday morning meeting (or similar). Because, hey,
I have a life. It's a pretty sad life. I hardly ever go out, but I've got (to
my eyes) a totally gorgeous almost 7 year old, who has to do all manner of
after school clubs and rubbish because I have to be at work. And who has a
Saturday morning dance class, which I can't take her to if there are Saturday
morning meetings (which, as been suggested on this forum, I should be glad to
volunteer to attend at). And with my officer head on, I'm totally fine if
community groups want to hold meetings without council officers there. But
then where will you all get your stats that you're all so keen on knowing? or
who will take the minutes?
I do not understand why we need a committee, and especially one
covering several neighbourhood forums.
Steven wrote:
> The committee is essential to provide local governance over the
> local forums. This committee guides the overall local forum effort,
> is a point of appeal for official rule violations, and will work to
> help grow participation in your forums. If a new local forum manager
> is needed, this committee confirms their appointment and is there to
> assist them as well as make sure the civility and inclusive agenda-
> setting mission of these forums is met.
Stephanie, from your perspective is managing the forum too onerous for
you as one person? I think you do a very good job, but we perhaps
don't see things going on behind the scenes regarding moderation and
such like which spilled over into the open forum recently when someone
complained about "free speech". Could we not solve that by having
people assist you within the local H&M forum? Are there disputes/rule
violations that need some self-selecting external body to resolve? If
this is just in anticipation could we not deal with that if it happens?
Whilst I think it is good to have council staff on the forums, reading
and perhaps picking up on issues raised (though the real "incentive"
to do this most thoroughly I suppose is on councillors who want us to
vote for them some day, which seems, by and large, to be happening on
the H&M forum), I'm not sure that it's appropriate for them to take a
"managerial" role in the form of membership of a committee, except in
cases where they live and are active in a forum in their area in their
own right as residents and want to do so. I can imagine little worse
that making it a part of someone's job to help manage the ramblings of
local residents - especially where they are "24/7" potentially!
Maybe I'm missing something?
It seems to me that the "local forum effort", unless I am reading it
wrongly, should be directed by us for our forum.
Or, now maybe I get it (by the way, that's called "grock it" in geek-
speak): is this committee replacing something that currently happens
anyway via one person - Steven himself? Or someone at the Town Hall?
If so, then it must maintain the ultra-light touch that has made that
person or those people currently fulfilling that role more or less
invisible to the participants on each forum. The last thing I would
want to see is some committee "directing" anything.
Personally I take the view that I'd prefer to see the forums localized
even more than they are at present and not necessarily directed by
some multi-forum overarching group. Then again, I'm your resident
anarchist I suppose, and I don't really like the idea of the
interwebnetmail system being "managed"!
I agree with Kate.
I think it is too much to expect officers to be on hand for Saturday
morning meetings, unless of course they are attending as residents or
users or whatever the meeting is about.
How about a slightly modified suggestion then. "Open forums" are
difficult because, as Kate suggests, they will often produce an ad hoc
demand for information which, unless they are so well organized in
advance (and therefore not "open forums" at all), that they have
agendas, background papers and so on prepared.
So, why not try and set out a series of Saturday meetings, maybe
months in advance, on particular longer term issues. The "sponsor" of
a particular topic could organize it - do the research or arrange at
least to have stats and figures that may be relevant - get people to
lead discussion and so on.
I am sure we can find many issues on which we could spend a couple of
hours in a "themed" meeting. Things that are medium-long term or
predictably timed issues such as:
• Local development framework changes - we'd know well in advance if
this sort of thing was going to happen in the next year
• One meeting a year where neighbourhoods come and share what
celebration events (Christmas lights, Headington Fair, Barton Bash,
Fireworks, church fetes, open garden events and so on) they have
planned over the next year - perhaps being able as a result to get
help from each other and certainly additional participants and
visitors to those events
• I'm sure we could throw a few ideas together for a good couple of
hours any day of the week on the variety of shops in Headington, what
could be done to change it and what assistance we as a community say
might need to make that happen - like planning policy changes,
landlord meetings or whatever
• Perhaps, just to make them political, one such meeting could be some
kind of area hust or "question time" format for councillors (since
I've just been watching Mr Dimbleby!)
None of these type of things would need council officers. If they
directly relate to particular council issues they're the sort of thing
that could be researched in advance by a councillor or two or a
residents' association or similar. But they could achieve something
the area committees cannot do because they have council business to
transact on each occasion and could be oriented to finding mutually
agreed solutions for local "big issues" whicih would be positive,
rather than "venting sessions" which tend not to be positive.
Perhaps the area committee could set aside a small budget for maybe
one of these every couple of months - to pay for venues if necessary
or expenses for "expert" speakers perhaps.
Just my (several) tuppence worths...
That said, I think there are improvements that could be made in the
way the real area committees work that would enable them to be more
resident participative and perhaps less a case of each councillor
having their say in front of a mute audience on each issue!
All three Oxford forums in existence already have a group that is meant to be a
steering committee, but in fact they are just worthy people who were pulled
together in order to get the forums off the ground, and they are not very
proactive.
Some kind of steering committee is required to ensure that the forum remains
fit for purpose. It has the power, for instance, to get rid of a manager who
has his or her own agenda, or who is simply failing to do the little admin jobs
of taking new members off moderation, helping people sign up, etc.
A steering committee covering all six forums would have more experience, and of
course it would be easier to get one strong group together rather than six, and
they could pool experiences. This committee would not interfere with the
forums, but would be there to advise the manager how to deal with problems, and
would keep in touch with e-Democracy.
Poor Shey Cobley of the city council has until now had to look after both the
Cowley and the Central South and West (CSW) forums. A stronger city-wide
steering group offering real support might make it easier to find people to
take on the job.
(As for Area Committee meetings, which have somehow got tangled up with this
thread, I personally would much prefer them to be at the weekend, but I can
quite understand why council staff wouldn’t want to come on a Saturday
morning.)
Point taken Stephanie; I shall behave myself now!
However, "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."
So how come if there are supposed to be 6 forums that there are only 3 sites
then? and the fact is it should be Headington, Northway and Marston not just
Headington and Marston. And why does Summertown not get a look in then with
its own forum, why don't they have one yet? Surely there should be one
individual site for each forum. Committees are the absolute death of things,
and are beloved by bureaucrats and pen pushers who like to look important and
sound important.
Council Officers are Public Servants who are there to serve the public, we the
electorate are their bosses because we pay their salaries, they serve at our
pleasure, they are supposed to do what we tell them to do. We can hire and
fire them when and as we wish! Saying they won't work on a Saturday, well
quite obviously they are just being lazy then. Typical of Oxford Council,
where's the can do attitude?
what about Public Service and Sacrifice, remember Kennedy: Ask not what your
country can do for you but what you can do for your country.
I couldn't give answers yesterday to your specific questions about the forums
of Oxford, Nicholas, as I had already sent the maximum of two messages. You
certainly have the knack of stirring us up.... Here is my reply.
So far only three of the six projected Oxford forums (each covering one area
committee zone) have opened. It takes a lot of effort by volunteers to get a
forum started, and a hundred members are supposed to sign up prior to the
opening (although I think there has been some flexibility about this). Unless
a forum manager backed by a local group is willing to do all the work (free of
charge -- including nights, weekends, and bank holidays, you will be pleased to
hear), the forum cannot open.
Northway is part of Headington. If the forum's name incorporated every
individual area covered by the H&M forum, it would be ridiculously long: as
well as Headington and Marston, we would have to include in the title Barton,
Sandhills, Quarry, Risinghurst, Northway, Wood Farm etc. forum. Then other
smaller areas like Titup, Peat Moors, and Toothill Butts might complain that
they were not mentioned, and Churchill ward might think its name should be
included, and so on.
One possible name for the forum would have been the North East Oxford Forum,
but I don't think the people of Headington or Marston (or Northway) would ever
reply "in north-east Oxford" if asked where they lived. Headington & Marston
seemed to sum it up neatly.
I don't see why council officers should be any more willing to work for
nothing than anyone else, Nicholas. I thought Kate explained perfectly why
she would prefer not to do so, and outlined how she already does extra work for
no remuneration, to the detriment of paying attention to her young daughter.
Forgive me, but you do seem only to hear (or read) selectively, and to pay
attention only to your own opinions, as well as expressing yourself in
intemperate, cliche-ridden and overblown language. I also wonder, since you
'support' Obama and quote JFK, whether you wouldn't be better applying for
residency in the US where they are known for their 'can-do' attitude. I'm
sorry, Stephanie, if that is too personal, and if it is I apologise in advance.
But Nicholas is the one who urged self-expression in an earlier post.
Public life and Politics is a calling and a vocation not a career, and if you
are in it for the money then in my eyes you are in it for the wrong reasons,
and Brian Coleman of the New Statesman magazine agrees with me on this point.
Earlier this year I did Jury Service at Oxford Crown Court and I made a
deliberate point afterwards of not claiming expenses back on principle. I
willingly gave of my time as a public duty for free, I performed my service
willingly and gladly. i have no complaints and no regrets and I would do it
all again if I had to. Politics and public life is about sacrifice and being
selfless, its about giving of your time, and putting others before yourself.
I have given the last two years of my life free to challenge and campaign
against these Controlled Parking Zones, and Residents Permit Charges, I help
residents get off Penalty Charge Notices, and I don't ask to get paid for doing
any of it.
I give up my week ends and evenings for the cause, when someone calls wanting
my help I drop everything and go, that is how dedicated I am.
On 22 Nov 2008, at 11:36, nicholas fell wrote:
> Public life and Politics is a calling and a vocation not a career,
> and if you are in it for the money then in my eyes you are in it for
> the wrong reasons, and Brian Coleman of the New Statesman magazine
> agrees with me on this point.
Apart from the fact that your assertion is nonsense when it comes to
the paid staff at least (remind me to congratulate my bin-man on his
finding his vocation next time I see him) Brian Coleman, for those who
don't read the Staggers but think he might just be somehow
authoritative in some way because you quoted him Nick, wrote about
politicians and not the paid service.
In particular he has some special ire for those who stop being
councillors and take sinecures or well paid QUANGO positions. This of
course never forgetting that Mr Coleman himself draws £50,000+ from
the public purse for being a GLA assembly member, is entitled to at
least fifty per cent of that as a golden farewell if he ever steps
down and has a bunch of other allowances paid for from the public
purse arising from both his chairmanship of the Fire and Emergency
Panning Authority and as a member of Barnet borough council (as a
cabinet member no less - so at least another £27,000), and whose big
buddy Boris managed to dispense millions of pounds worth of largesse
to his mates to become deputy mayors even without the inconvenience of
getting themselves elected.
So, when next an officer earning more than £75,000 complains about
turning up on a Saturday, then you, and Coleman, might have a point!
> Earlier this year I did Jury Service at Oxford Crown Court and I
> made a deliberate point afterwards of not claiming expenses back on
> principle. I willingly gave of my time as a public duty for free, I
> performed my service willingly and gladly.
One of my great regrets is that we do not do "jury selection" like
they do in the US...:)
> Politics and public life is about sacrifice and being selfless, its
> about giving of your time, and putting others before yourself.
...and Kate, and people like her, are not in "public service" as you
are defining it. They are in jobs. With contracts. And salaries.
And stated hours of work.
> I have given the last two years of my life free to challenge and
> campaign against these Controlled Parking Zones, and Residents
> Permit Charges, I help residents get off Penalty Charge Notices, and
> I don't ask to get paid for doing any of it.
> I give up my week ends and evenings for the cause, when someone
> calls wanting my help I drop everything and go, that is how
> dedicated I am.
...such sacrifice is somehow so much better when not done "to be seen
of men" Nick!
One... two... three... four... five...
I'm trying really hard, Stephanie! :-)
Obviously, the view expressed here is my personal view as a resident within the
area, and does not reflect the views of the council.
"I have given the last two years of my life free to challenge and campaign
against these Controlled Parking Zones, and Residents Permit Charges, I help
residents get off Penalty Charge Notices, and I don't ask to get paid for doing
any of it.
I give up my week ends and evenings for the cause, when someone calls wanting
my help I drop everything and go, that is how dedicated I am."
I am humbled at your worthiness.
Just a couple of questions.
Have you given the last two years of your life to help residents because you
have strong views about penalty charge notices, controlled parking zones and
residents permit charges? Thus, is the help you've given actually to help you
further your own agenda? Or are you truely public spirited, in that you are
helping people achieve something about which you do not have an opinion?
Secondly, are you ever selective when you decide who to help? Supposing,
hypothetically speaking, for example that someone who was calling you to ask
for your help considered - totally erroneously, of course - you pompous, with
an over-exaggerated view of your own self importance and a total waste of
space, and generally, a rather tedious individual, would you still drop
everything to help that person?
What happens if a call comes through while you're in bed, or about to sit down
to supper, or half way through a gripping chapter. Do you run out of the door
to assist before even finding out the butler did it? Perhaps in your pijamas?
I stand in awe at your sense of public duty, which is, clearly, far superior to
mine.
Kate Stratford, the last thing I want you to be is to be in awe of me, I regard
myself simply as a four wheeled robin hood, I help anyone who has had a
defective Penalty Charge Notice, and yes I do have strong views about
Controlled Parking Zones and Residents Parking Permits, but then that is Keith
Mitchell's fault.
The reason I do what I do is because PCNs are being used as a stealth tax, they
are being used as revenue raisers to raise extra council tax and to avoid
breaking the council tax cap and if they did that they would thereby get a 6
figure fine. It is a way of raising extra council tax while claiming not to be
raising council tax.
If you want to know what the campaign is all about I refer you to The Motorists
Legal Challenge Fund website, Parking Appeals.Co.UK, Neil Herron blogspot.com,
and The Weekly Gripe Oxford Residents Parking.
The more defective someones PCN is, the easier it is for me to challenge, and
if the Parking Restrictions on the ground where they have parked are defective
that makes it easier still, and if the Traffic Regulation Order is defective,
which mostly they are in Oxford, then I can challenge people's tickets even
more easily.
A lot of people do not sadly know their rights when it comes to PCNs, and do
not understand the challenge process or know that there is a process of
challenge open and available to them. People should not have to pay defective
PCNs, and as a result of what I do I save people money. And helps to educate
them.
It is also a way to keep money out of the hands of the County Council that they
are not entitled to.
The Traffic Acts are not fiscal acts and therefore cannot in law be used to
raise revenue. PCNs are also illegal under the Bill of Rights Act 1689.
Fines cannot be levied without there having been a Court appearance first.
That All Grants, and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures Of Particular Persons
Before Conviction is Illegal and Void. Residents Parking Permits is just
Political Punishment for not voting Tory that is all. Making Parking free in
the Centre of Oxford in the evenings so that Tories driving in and Parking for
free was simply a Political reward for their having voted Tory. What I do Kate
is a way for residents to get even.