All posts in the topic West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent gang (Short link)

2007 Feb 12 15:29 UTC

Posting this on behalf of a friend who's not on the list - would be great to
hear your ideas about how we can help.
Best, Kathy

---

  I am a resident of Astra House on Brighton seafront.  Below our building,
next door to the Melrose Restaurant is a small newsagent called West Pier
News.

The business is owned by one of the kindest, happiest and most community
minded shop keepers I believe Brighton and Hove has!

Joseph and his staff always have time to find out how you are, tell you the
weather forecast, smile and even encourage me to give up smoking, explaining
how he did it and in the long run loosing my regular cigarette spend with
him!

They are vital members of our community and it is rare in our world of chain
supermarkets and high streets to find a traditional shop keeper offering
exceptional customer services and genuine concern for his customers.  I have
seen them walk elderly customers home whilst carrying their shopping.

Over the course of the last two months Joseph had been the victim of a tribe
of teenagers who took great offence to his request to leave the store after
being caught trying to steal some chocolate bars.  Their retaliation has
escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all his
customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his business.

He has had to double his staff levels to ensure that their are always two
members on site.  He no longer feels it fair to take time away from the shop
should they return and one of his staff be hurt trying to look after his
business.

They have thrown eggs and on a separate occasion stones (one of which cut a
female customer in the neck) and last night arrived armed with not only
sticks but we are led to believe knives, and more worryingly a far older
group of teenagers - if not adults.

The police have been called by Joseph and have been on site many times.
Although I was not witness to it I understand they have seen this group
several times at Josephs shop and witnessed their threatening behaviour.

Something must be done to help prevent this wonderful member of our
community loosing his business, his health and his staff their jobs.

I do not know if this is racially aggravated bullying - but it can not be
allowed to continue.

Please let me know how you can help.

Kind regards,
Lorraine Hanson
<email obscured>
On 1/31/07, Kathy Caton <kathy.caton@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Their retaliation has
> escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all his
> customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his business.

Is this Brighton or Baghdad? I know this shop and will always use it
whenever I can by choice as they're always so friendly. I find it hard to
believe a set of juveniles can conspire to undermine a business in this way,
but accept that this is what is happening if that is what's alleged.

I was under the impression via another party that he was threatened by the
landlords with a huge rent rise, but felt it was not my business to pry. At
least that type of extortion is legal.

Can anyone (Pier to Pier?) help out with advice or loan of a webcam that
might be able to help him?
If one was hidden somewhere in the shop it might help catch something on
camera that would help with a prosecution.
Though I daresay he already has CCTV?

Dan.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Coady" <tom.coady@gmail.com>
To: "Kathy Caton" <kathy.caton@googlemail.com>
Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

On 1/31/07, Kathy Caton <kathy.caton@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Their retaliation has
> escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all his
> customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his business.

Is this Brighton or Baghdad? I know this shop and will always use it
whenever I can by choice as they're always so friendly. I find it hard to
believe a set of juveniles can conspire to undermine a business in this way,
but accept that this is what is happening if that is what's alleged.

I was under the impression via another party that he was threatened by the
landlords with a huge rent rise, but felt it was not my business to pry. At
least that type of extortion is legal.

Tom Coady
Regency, Brighton
More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/tomcoady

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Simple answer to the WebCam question is "no". We only have ADSL with its
very limited upload speed. Far too little for streaming video of any
quality, and even that would probably use all our bandwidth.

I could probably grub some kit together and wifi it it somewhere nearby,
but not the internet. I don't think its a practial solution however.

Tom PierToPier.net

On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 17:32 +0000, Dan Jellinek wrote:
> Can anyone (Pier to Pier?) help out with advice or loan of a webcam that
> might be able to help him?
> If one was hidden somewhere in the shop it might help catch something on
> camera that would help with a prosecution.
> Though I daresay he already has CCTV?
>
> Dan.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Coady" <tom.coady@gmail.com>
> To: "Kathy Caton" <kathy.caton@googlemail.com>
> Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
> gang
>
>
> On 1/31/07, Kathy Caton <kathy.caton@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Their retaliation has
> > escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all his
> > customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his business.
>
>
> Is this Brighton or Baghdad? I know this shop and will always use it
> whenever I can by choice as they're always so friendly. I find it hard to
> believe a set of juveniles can conspire to undermine a business in this way,
> but accept that this is what is happening if that is what's alleged.
>
> I was under the impression via another party that he was threatened by the
> landlords with a huge rent rise, but felt it was not my business to pry. At
> least that type of extortion is legal.
>
>
> Tom Coady
> Regency, Brighton
> More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/tomcoady
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
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>
>
>
>
> Dan Jellinek
> Brighton and Hove
> More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/danjellinek
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
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How about pausing before you get on to the technology. Have the ward
councillors been contacted? Have they made the required visits? Talked to
all concerned persons. Consulted with the police if the problem is beyond
their powers to deal with?

Is there a neighbourhood watch organisation?

Forward to the back-log.

Kathleen

----- Original Message -----
From: "tom" <oceanhippie@yahoo.com>
To: "Dan Jellinek" <dan@headstar.com>
Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

> Simple answer to the WebCam question is "no". We only have ADSL with its
> very limited upload speed. Far too little for streaming video of any
> quality, and even that would probably use all our bandwidth.
>
> I could probably grub some kit together and wifi it it somewhere nearby,
> but not the internet. I don't think its a practial solution however.
>
> Tom PierToPier.net
>
> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 17:32 +0000, Dan Jellinek wrote:
> > Can anyone (Pier to Pier?) help out with advice or loan of a webcam that
> > might be able to help him?
> > If one was hidden somewhere in the shop it might help catch something on
> > camera that would help with a prosecution.
> > Though I daresay he already has CCTV?
> >
> > Dan.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Coady" <tom.coady@gmail.com>
> > To: "Kathy Caton" <kathy.caton@googlemail.com>
> > Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of
violent
> > gang
> >
> >
> > On 1/31/07, Kathy Caton <kathy.caton@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Their retaliation has
> > > escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all
his
> > > customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his business.
> >
> >
> > Is this Brighton or Baghdad? I know this shop and will always use it
> > whenever I can by choice as they're always so friendly. I find it hard
to
> > believe a set of juveniles can conspire to undermine a business in this
way,
> > but accept that this is what is happening if that is what's alleged.
> >
> > I was under the impression via another party that he was threatened by
the
> > landlords with a huge rent rise, but felt it was not my business to pry.
At
> > least that type of extortion is legal.
> >
> >
> > Tom Coady
> > Regency, Brighton
> > More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/tomcoady
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152018
> >
> > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dan Jellinek
> > Brighton and Hove
> > More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/danjellinek
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152019
> >
> > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> oceanhippie Griffiths
> Preson Park/Circus when not on the beach, Brighton, not actually
> More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/oceanhippie
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
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Yes good idea.

Perhaps Kathy's friend would like to register on the forum and discuss these
issues direct? Kathy?

cheers,
Dan.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathleen.McMullen" <kathleen.mcmullen@ntlworld.com>
To: "BH@forums" <BH@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

How about pausing before you get on to the technology. Have the ward
councillors been contacted? Have they made the required visits? Talked to
all concerned persons. Consulted with the police if the problem is beyond
their powers to deal with?

Is there a neighbourhood watch organisation?

Forward to the back-log.

Kathleen

----- Original Message -----
From: "tom" <oceanhippie@yahoo.com>
To: "Dan Jellinek" <dan@headstar.com>
Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

> Simple answer to the WebCam question is "no". We only have ADSL with its
> very limited upload speed. Far too little for streaming video of any
> quality, and even that would probably use all our bandwidth.
>
> I could probably grub some kit together and wifi it it somewhere nearby,
> but not the internet. I don't think its a practial solution however.
>
> Tom PierToPier.net
>
> On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 17:32 +0000, Dan Jellinek wrote:
> > Can anyone (Pier to Pier?) help out with advice or loan of a webcam that
> > might be able to help him?
> > If one was hidden somewhere in the shop it might help catch something on
> > camera that would help with a prosecution.
> > Though I daresay he already has CCTV?
> >
> > Dan.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Coady" <tom.coady@gmail.com>
> > To: "Kathy Caton" <kathy.caton@googlemail.com>
> > Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of
violent
> > gang
> >
> >
> > On 1/31/07, Kathy Caton <kathy.caton@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Their retaliation has
> > > escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all
his
> > > customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his business.
> >
> >
> > Is this Brighton or Baghdad? I know this shop and will always use it
> > whenever I can by choice as they're always so friendly. I find it hard
to
> > believe a set of juveniles can conspire to undermine a business in this
way,
> > but accept that this is what is happening if that is what's alleged.
> >
> > I was under the impression via another party that he was threatened by
the
> > landlords with a huge rent rise, but felt it was not my business to pry.
At
> > least that type of extortion is legal.
> >
> >
> > Tom Coady
> > Regency, Brighton
> > More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/tomcoady
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152018
> >
> > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dan Jellinek
> > Brighton and Hove
> > More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/danjellinek
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152019
> >
> > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> oceanhippie Griffiths
> Preson Park/Circus when not on the beach, Brighton, not actually
> More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/oceanhippie
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
>   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
>
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>
> For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> - - - - - - - - - - -

Kathy mcmullen
BN3 1JU, Brighton &amp; Hove
More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/kathleenmcmullen

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Dear all,
Thank you for all your help and comments so far.  Have indeed invited Ms
Hanson to join the forum so hopefully she'll be on the system soon.  In the
meantime, here's an update from her in response to a nice message from Tom.
Best, Kathy

 Dear Tom

Many thanks for your reply and support.

Councillor Pennington called me this morning and is going to go and speak
with him - which is a great start.  I also hope to get the Argus involved
although they are already running a story today with regards to the shop and
the gangs of kids on the seafront.

I have contacted the police, our MP David Lepper, four councillors, the
seafront traders association and BBC South so hopefully some help will come
from some quarter.

Do go in and support him - I saw him this morning and he has already had
someone come in and was delighted for the support.

 Many thanks for your reply.

Kind regards

Lorraine

On 2/1/07, Dan Jellinek <dan@headstar.com> wrote:
>
> Yes good idea.
>
> Perhaps Kathy's friend would like to register on the forum and discuss
> these
> issues direct? Kathy?
>
> cheers,
> Dan.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kathleen.McMullen" <kathleen.mcmullen@ntlworld.com>
> To: "BH@forums" <BH@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of
> violent
> gang
>
>
> How about pausing before you get on to the technology. Have the ward
> councillors been contacted? Have they made the required visits? Talked to
> all concerned persons. Consulted with the police if the problem is beyond
> their powers to deal with?
>
> Is there a neighbourhood watch organisation?
>
> Forward to the back-log.
>
> Kathleen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tom" <oceanhippie@yahoo.com>
> To: "Dan Jellinek" <dan@headstar.com>
> Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of
> violent
> gang
>
>
> > Simple answer to the WebCam question is "no". We only have ADSL with its
> > very limited upload speed. Far too little for streaming video of any
> > quality, and even that would probably use all our bandwidth.
> >
> > I could probably grub some kit together and wifi it it somewhere nearby,
> > but not the internet. I don't think its a practial solution however.
> >
> > Tom PierToPier.net
> >
> > On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 17:32 +0000, Dan Jellinek wrote:
> > > Can anyone (Pier to Pier?) help out with advice or loan of a webcam
> that
> > > might be able to help him?
> > > If one was hidden somewhere in the shop it might help catch something
> on
> > > camera that would help with a prosecution.
> > > Though I daresay he already has CCTV?
> > >
> > > Dan.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Tom Coady" <tom.coady@gmail.com>
> > > To: "Kathy Caton" <kathy.caton@googlemail.com>
> > > Cc: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:17 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of
> violent
> > > gang
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1/31/07, Kathy Caton <kathy.caton@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Their retaliation has
> > > > escalated to such a level that he is a haunted looking man - and all
> his
> > > > customers are now very worried about him, his staff and his
> business.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this Brighton or Baghdad? I know this shop and will always use it
> > > whenever I can by choice as they're always so friendly. I find it hard
> to
> > > believe a set of juveniles can conspire to undermine a business in
> this
> way,
> > > but accept that this is what is happening if that is what's alleged.
> > >
> > > I was under the impression via another party that he was threatened by
> the
> > > landlords with a huge rent rise, but felt it was not my business to
> pry.
> At
> > > least that type of extortion is legal.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tom Coady
> > > Regency, Brighton
> > > More info:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/tomcoady
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> > >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> > >
> > > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152018
> > >
> > > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dan Jellinek
> > > Brighton and Hove
> > > More info:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/danjellinek
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> > >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> > >
> > > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152019
> > >
> > > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > > - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> > oceanhippie Griffiths
> > Preson Park/Circus when not on the beach, Brighton, not actually
> > More info:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/oceanhippie
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To unsubscribe type "unsubscribe" (without the quotation marks) in the
> >   subject line and send to:  <email obscured>
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/topic/152030
> >
> > For digest or to update bio options (must log-in):
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/groups/bh/
> > - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> Kathy mcmullen
> BN3 1JU, Brighton &amp; Hove
> More info:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/kathleenmcmullen
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
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>
>
>
>
> Dan Jellinek
> Brighton and Hove
> More info:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/danjellinek
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
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>
Well I've joined!  Hello!  Thanks for your comments!

I have had a call from Lisa who is the Business Crime Reduction Manager for
Brighton and Hove FS Life.  She has forwarded it to the Hate Crime officer and
advised he should keep a dairy - even if the police aren't called.  She also
has a security firm who offer a mobile support unit.  Its much cheaper than
having to hire a security guard.  And hopefully she can get the Police
Community officer along to visit him.

I will take a copy of this in to him - he has said that people had already been
in having read this and it really helps to know that people care.

Today's Argus has an article on page 27 regarding the shop and a report from a
father that a fight is planned for Friday on the seafront between two rival
gangs.

Sussex police have said that a Dispersal Order is in place which gives them the
power to break up groups or gangs.  But I know that when the gang of kids has
been at the shop before and the police have been called, the police have said
that they can't do anything until a crime is committed.

The Argus also mentioned the owner of Seaside News being beaten up earlier this
month by a gang of kids who went behind the counter - he needed 15 stitches.

In many ways I wonder what will happen if they do leave Joseph alone - I expect
they will just find someone else to bully.

Its amazing to see how people do care for the community.  But also very
frightening to think what certain elements of this community are becoming.

Gosh on that happy note!

Glad to have joined.

Kind regards
Lorraine

Welcome to the group Lorraine!

I'm really delighted that the Issues Forum has been a useful resource in
helping you being to address a serious problem in the community - let's hope
the follow-up help really does make a difference.

I think this is a potential example for everyone as to how this issues forum
can have real value as it develops - as a place where people can take issues
and receive advice and assistance from fellow citizens and also elected
officials and others in a position to help directly and make a difference.

Please do keep us all appraised of how matters develop. Very alarming about
the report of a planned fight - though hopefully the police can head it off
if forewarned.

All the best,
Dan.

----- Original Message -----
From: "lorraine hanson" <hcl@ipi-ltd.co.uk>
To: "BH-Issues" <bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

Well I've joined!  Hello!  Thanks for your comments!

I have had a call from Lisa who is the Business Crime Reduction Manager for
Brighton and Hove FS Life.  She has forwarded it to the Hate Crime officer
and advised he should keep a dairy - even if the police aren't called.  She
also has a security firm who offer a mobile support unit.  Its much cheaper
than having to hire a security guard.  And hopefully she can get the Police
Community officer along to visit him.

I will take a copy of this in to him - he has said that people had already
been in having read this and it really helps to know that people care.

Today's Argus has an article on page 27 regarding the shop and a report from
a father that a fight is planned for Friday on the seafront between two
rival gangs.

Sussex police have said that a Dispersal Order is in place which gives them
the power to break up groups or gangs.  But I know that when the gang of
kids has been at the shop before and the police have been called, the police
have said that they can't do anything until a crime is committed.

The Argus also mentioned the owner of Seaside News being beaten up earlier
this month by a gang of kids who went behind the counter - he needed 15
stitches.

In many ways I wonder what will happen if they do leave Joseph alone - I
expect they will just find someone else to bully.

Its amazing to see how people do care for the community.  But also very
frightening to think what certain elements of this community are becoming.

Gosh on that happy note!

Glad to have joined.

Kind regards
Lorraine
lorraine  hanson

More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/lorrainehanson

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Just thought you might like an update - cut and paste from two emails to
follow, one from Lisa Perretta the Business Crime Reduction Manager and one via
Cllr Roy Pennington from Cheif Inspector David Miller.

Thanks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Lorraine,

I have had an email back from my contact within Sussex Police. She has passed
your email onto about 9 other contacts within the police.
I have also spoken with the security company who will pay a visit to the store
to talk to him about his problems. (They are not a pushy security company -
they are members of the Business Crime Reduction Partnership and have an
excellent reputation within Brighton and Hove).

Your email has also been passed to the relevant liaison officer for that area
and I am sure they will pay a visit too.

Everything really needs to be diarised so we can collate the intelligence even
if the police are NOT called.
I will also make a point of popping in there myself next week.

Many Thanks

Lisa Perretta
Business Crime Reduction Manager
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Cllr Pennington and Judith,

Thank you for forwarding this email to me.  I have been in post now for
4 weeks and have become aware of this problem already, both through
police reports and recent mention in the 'Argus'.

I will leave the reply to Ms Hanson to Roy, but am happy to update her
separately if she wishes.

As you know, we do have dedicated Neighbourhood Support Officers and
PCSOs for Regency and they are aware of the problem and are dedicating
their patrols to the area around the West Pier when on duty.  I have
also updated our NPT (response) officers to patrol the area when they
are able.

Additionally, Operation Prince is our formalised approach to youth
disorder on Fridays and Saturday nights when the problem tends to be at
its worst.  We work with the Youth Service to not only move the problem
on, but reduce it in the long term.

I do take this very seriously and we will do all we can, when we can to
make the situation better.

Regards

David Miller
Chief Inspector
Central District
Brighton and Hove Division
There is not a Neighborhood Watch Scheme near-by, though Regency Square Area
Society  http://www.regencybrighton.com/  and the Friends of Bedford Square
http://www.bedfordsquarebrighton.info/  have similar aims. (FOBS even have a
web-cam.) Castle Street recently started one.
Good to read what the Business Crime Reduction Manager have to say: the
Business Improvement District does not reach West Pier (it funds security
guards in the Lanes, for example.)
When I went, I noticed cams inside (as we require when a shop sells booze) but
the outside is not covered well.
One wonders where the gang is coming from (both in origin and purpose.)

See My Blog too www.brighton-hove-councillors.org.uk/RoyPenningtonblog

I havn't heard of it for awhile but there was a seafront traders
Association too.

Tom
Roy Pennington wrote:
> There is not a Neighborhood Watch Scheme near-by, though Regency Square Area
Society  http://www.regencybrighton.com/  and the Friends of Bedford Square
http://www.bedfordsquarebrighton.info/  have similar aims. (FOBS even have a
web-cam.) Castle Street recently started one.
> Good to read what the Business Crime Reduction Manager have to say: the
Business Improvement District does not reach West Pier (it funds security
guards in the Lanes, for example.)
> When I went, I noticed cams inside (as we require when a shop sells booze)
but the outside is not covered well.

> One wonders where the gang is coming from (both in origin and purpose.)
>
> See My Blog too www.brighton-hove-councillors.org.uk/RoyPenningtonblog
> Roy Pennington
> City center - Palace Pier to West Pier via Seven Dials, Brighton and Hove
> More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/roypennington
>
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>
yes, there is a sea front traders group, mainly focussed on the lower prom.
between the piers. As the i-360 gets underway, they will get more
prominance........

The police contacts are below:
Please feel free to pass this information and my contact details,
<email obscured> along with PC Marters,
<email obscured> to any persons with concerns regarding this
issue.

We are currently dealing with a number of the 'key' youths who continually pop
up in these groups and have been arrested for failing to disperse and very
strict bail conditions applied.

Combined with this we are expanding the number of days we run our very
successful operation for youth disorder and you should start seeing
results on Saturday as well.

We are also actively working with trading standards and the licensing
department to prevent shops selling alcohol to underage drinkers.

Cllr Roy Pennington

This whole issue has had a fantastic response from the community.  Although the
following reply from Tony Mernagh, Chief Executive of Brighton & Hove Business
Forum does not seems as positive.

email sent 12 February 2007 11:04

Hello Lorraine,

Your email to local councillors concerning the problems that the owner of West
Pier News is having with anti-social behaviour has been passed on to me for
comment.

Regrettably anti social behaviour is an increasing problem nationally as well
and in Brighton & Hove and it is not one that has a quick fix.

Without any criticism intended I am afraid that Joseph cannot rely on Sussex
Police to assist him since, it is the experience of most shopkeepers that their
attendance at incidents is unreliable and too often unsatisfactory. In fairness
to them, the calls upon their time are manifold and often a matter of
preventing serious injury or disturbance.

In my view Joseph has little choice but to contract the services of an on-call
security company that can attend his premises at the drop of a hat and in
double quick time.

The Business Forum has recently established a Business Improvement District
(BID) in the city centre which pays for security guards to patrol the BID area
seven days a week/ 365 days a year and they have been a stunning success. We
are investigating establishing BIDs in other areas but at the moment we are
working on Hove and the seafront is not likely to be investigated for at least
a year an possibly longer.

However the security company that we have contracted for the BID area also
offers the on-call service I referred to above. They are called SASSCo and the
contact is Mark Eteen on 08707 666999. If Joseph would like to talk to someone
who has contracted their services in the past he could get in touch with
Rudolph Egler from The Market Place in Meeting House Lane (01273 329417).

Joseph will have to pay for this service but it may well be a sound investment.
If his problems continue he will almost certainly start to lose custom as
shoppers avoid the ugly scenes that occur in and outside his premises.

I hope that this helps.

Tony Mernagh
Chief Executive.
Brighton & Hove Business Forum

This response merely backs up what I have always thought...That the Police
are too busy raising taxes for the government in the form of fines etc from
motorists, and they are not prepared to assist a genuine citizen in trouble
because there is no money in it!
It is a sad world indeed where the Police have given up policing real crimes
and wait on street corners for the unsuspecting motorist 'in case' he or she
'might' be breaking a law.

-----Original Message-----
From: lorraine hanson [mailto:hcl@ipi-ltd.co.uk]
Sent: 12 February 2007 13:05
To: BH-Issues
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

This whole issue has had a fantastic response from the community.  Although
the following reply from Tony Mernagh, Chief Executive of Brighton & Hove
Business Forum does not seems as positive.

email sent 12 February 2007 11:04

Hello Lorraine,

Your email to local councillors concerning the problems that the owner of
West Pier News is having with anti-social behaviour has been passed on to me
for comment.

Regrettably anti social behaviour is an increasing problem nationally as
well and in Brighton & Hove and it is not one that has a quick fix.

Without any criticism intended I am afraid that Joseph cannot rely on Sussex
Police to assist him since, it is the experience of most shopkeepers that
their attendance at incidents is unreliable and too often unsatisfactory. In
fairness to them, the calls upon their time are manifold and often a matter
of preventing serious injury or disturbance.

In my view Joseph has little choice but to contract the services of an
on-call security company that can attend his premises at the drop of a hat
and in double quick time.

The Business Forum has recently established a Business Improvement District
(BID) in the city centre which pays for security guards to patrol the BID
area seven days a week/ 365 days a year and they have been a stunning
success. We are investigating establishing BIDs in other areas but at the
moment we are working on Hove and the seafront is not likely to be
investigated for at least a year an possibly longer.

However the security company that we have contracted for the BID area also
offers the on-call service I referred to above. They are called SASSCo and
the contact is Mark Eteen on 08707 666999. If Joseph would like to talk to
someone who has contracted their services in the past he could get in touch
with Rudolph Egler from The Market Place in Meeting House Lane (01273
329417).

Joseph will have to pay for this service but it may well be a sound
investment. If his problems continue he will almost certainly start to lose
custom as shoppers avoid the ugly scenes that occur in and outside his
premises.

I hope that this helps.

Tony Mernagh
Chief Executive.
Brighton & Hove Business Forum

lorraine  hanson

More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/lorrainehanson

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Hmm, I think this is a bit of a stretch of an argument, to link these two
issues: one's views on enforcing speed limits (which are partly there to
protect children from harm) are one matter: and if you drive within the
limits you will not be fined. Personally I would like speed limits to be
policed more strongly, or cars simply disabled from breaking the limits: the
number of times I see people zooming right up behind cars and flashing their
lights in the motorway fast lane even though the driver in front of them is
driving safely at the national speed limit of 70mph, makes my blood boil.
But I don't think the one issue has much to do with the other. In any case
it is not a Brighton issue but a national one, and I apologise in advance
for perpetutating its discussion here! Oh dear.

It does seem a shame that the police cannot have a rapid response service in
cases such as this though. I don't know if it is simply a question of
funding, or more how a response is organisaed or prioritised: if a gun is
reported, for example, I believe the response is very fast.

It should also be pointed out that this email is not actually from the
Police: they may well respond in a more caring manner (or they may not). I
have no idea, but it may also be that this business forum wants to encourage
use of this private security firm. Any views?

cheers,
dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "ares.apollo" <ares.apollo@ntlworld.com>
To: "'lorraine hanson'" <hcl@ipi-ltd.co.uk>; "'BH-Issues'"
<bh@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

This response merely backs up what I have always thought...That the Police
are too busy raising taxes for the government in the form of fines etc from
motorists, and they are not prepared to assist a genuine citizen in trouble
because there is no money in it!
It is a sad world indeed where the Police have given up policing real crimes
and wait on street corners for the unsuspecting motorist 'in case' he or she
'might' be breaking a law.

-----Original Message-----
From: lorraine hanson [mailto:hcl@ipi-ltd.co.uk]
Sent: 12 February 2007 13:05
To: BH-Issues
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of violent
gang

This whole issue has had a fantastic response from the community.  Although
the following reply from Tony Mernagh, Chief Executive of Brighton & Hove
Business Forum does not seems as positive.

email sent 12 February 2007 11:04

Hello Lorraine,

Your email to local councillors concerning the problems that the owner of
West Pier News is having with anti-social behaviour has been passed on to me
for comment.

Regrettably anti social behaviour is an increasing problem nationally as
well and in Brighton & Hove and it is not one that has a quick fix.

Without any criticism intended I am afraid that Joseph cannot rely on Sussex
Police to assist him since, it is the experience of most shopkeepers that
their attendance at incidents is unreliable and too often unsatisfactory. In
fairness to them, the calls upon their time are manifold and often a matter
of preventing serious injury or disturbance.

In my view Joseph has little choice but to contract the services of an
on-call security company that can attend his premises at the drop of a hat
and in double quick time.

The Business Forum has recently established a Business Improvement District
(BID) in the city centre which pays for security guards to patrol the BID
area seven days a week/ 365 days a year and they have been a stunning
success. We are investigating establishing BIDs in other areas but at the
moment we are working on Hove and the seafront is not likely to be
investigated for at least a year an possibly longer.

However the security company that we have contracted for the BID area also
offers the on-call service I referred to above. They are called SASSCo and
the contact is Mark Eteen on 08707 666999. If Joseph would like to talk to
someone who has contracted their services in the past he could get in touch
with Rudolph Egler from The Market Place in Meeting House Lane (01273
329417).

Joseph will have to pay for this service but it may well be a sound
investment. If his problems continue he will almost certainly start to lose
custom as shoppers avoid the ugly scenes that occur in and outside his
premises.

I hope that this helps.

Tony Mernagh
Chief Executive.
Brighton & Hove Business Forum

lorraine  hanson

More info:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/lorrainehanson

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Graham Wright

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I'm not so sure you've got that completely correct, ares.apollo... Whilst
it's (i imagine) absolutely true that the police are overworked, you have
to note that Tony Mernagh is the chief exec of a business forum and is
taking this opportunity to plug the services of, um, a business associated
with his organisation! I'm not suggesting he doesn't care about the
situation for the shopkeeper, but Roy Pennington's response to this thread
earlier seems to indicate that the police are perfectly willing and able
to help with this matter.

alice

On Mon, February 12, 2007 1:52 pm, ares.apollo wrote:
> This response merely backs up what I have always thought...That the Police
> are too busy raising taxes for the government in the form of fines etc
> from
> motorists, and they are not prepared to assist a genuine citizen in
> trouble
> because there is no money in it!
> It is a sad world indeed where the Police have given up policing real
> crimes
> and wait on street corners for the unsuspecting motorist 'in case' he or
> she
> 'might' be breaking a law.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lorraine hanson [mailto:hcl@ipi-ltd.co.uk]
> Sent: 12 February 2007 13:05
> To: BH-Issues
> Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] West Pier Newsagent - Shop keeper victim of
> violent
> gang
>
>
>
> This whole issue has had a fantastic response from the community.
> Although
> the following reply from Tony Mernagh, Chief Executive of Brighton & Hove
> Business Forum does not seems as positive.
>
> email sent 12 February 2007 11:04
>
> Hello Lorraine,
>
> Your email to local councillors concerning the problems that the owner of
> West Pier News is having with anti-social behaviour has been passed on to
> me
> for comment.
>
> Regrettably anti social behaviour is an increasing problem nationally as
> well and in Brighton & Hove and it is not one that has a quick fix.
>
> Without any criticism intended I am afraid that Joseph cannot rely on
> Sussex
> Police to assist him since, it is the experience of most shopkeepers that
> their attendance at incidents is unreliable and too often unsatisfactory.
> In
> fairness to them, the calls upon their time are manifold and often a
> matter
> of preventing serious injury or disturbance.
>
> In my view Joseph has little choice but to contract the services of an
> on-call security company that can attend his premises at the drop of a hat
> and in double quick time.
>
> The Business Forum has recently established a Business Improvement
> District
> (BID) in the city centre which pays for security guards to patrol the BID
> area seven days a week/ 365 days a year and they have been a stunning
> success. We are investigating establishing BIDs in other areas but at the
> moment we are working on Hove and the seafront is not likely to be
> investigated for at least a year an possibly longer.
>
> However the security company that we have contracted for the BID area also
> offers the on-call service I referred to above. They are called SASSCo and
> the contact is Mark Eteen on 08707 666999. If Joseph would like to talk to
> someone who has contracted their services in the past he could get in
> touch
> with Rudolph Egler from The Market Place in Meeting House Lane (01273
> 329417).
>
> Joseph will have to pay for this service but it may well be a sound
> investment. If his problems continue he will almost certainly start to
> lose
> custom as shoppers avoid the ugly scenes that occur in and outside his
> premises.
>
> I hope that this helps.
>
> Tony Mernagh
> Chief Executive.
> Brighton & Hove Business Forum
>
> lorraine  hanson
>
> More info:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/brighton-hove/contacts/lorrainehanson
>
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>
> Graham Wright
>
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>
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>
From what I have seen as a neighbour and Joseph has told me the response from
the police has been excellent.  Since this matter came to light the police have
made a point of visiting him at least once a day.  Dispersal orders have been
put in place and used and so far he has not had any more trouble. Fingers
crossed this continues.

Yes, I got the letter from Tony Mernagh too, and I felt it did not reflect the
current reality on the ground so I did not mention it. (see quick comment by
others.) I feel he is right that, in the long term, some kind of partnership
approach will be needed for the sea-front as a whole.
Roy

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