All posts in the topic Fw: Canterbury Energy strategy (Short link)

Jun 25 09:02 UTC

----- Original Message -----
From: "business.research.co.nz" <<email obscured>>
To: <<email obscured>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Canterbury Energy strategy

> Interesting comment Brian. I don't actually argue "keep the price down and
> people will use more..." I really mean "If the price is low enough more
> people will use it." Quite a difference.
> Cheers,
> Tim Kerr.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Sandle" <<email obscured>>
> To: <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Canterbury Energy strategy
>
>
>> 'Just Blair' Anderson wrote:
>>>
>>> What we have done is left it up to a few good folk to do the best they
>>> can empowered by the content of their own wallets.
>>>
>>> Having delivered the earthday speech at ECAN back in May on relevent
>>> local energy options - one can be a tad cynical as to where we need to
>>> take this conversation.
>>>
>>> There is a lot of posturing and not much production...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Produce more, keep the price down and someone will go ahead and use
>> more, sort of a Tim's argument. We will be back where we were.
>>
>> Say we increase production by 5%. But then I see there is application
>> for apartments in Marine Pde/Union St: "It is considered that the
>> requirement for areas to provide for washing lines and the like are not
>> practical for multi unit apartment living.." I think that will eat up 5%
>> of a power bill.
>>
>> We need to be sure people can make use of natural heating wherever
>> possible, i.e. make sure clothes lines are available, and ration
>> electricity use in proportion. Quite often, for example, in the morning,
>> the outdoor air temperature may be greater than the indoor air
>> temperature, since insulation and lack of ventilation has stopped that
>> heat getting in.
>>
>> Also ventilation outgoing air can have its heat exchanged to teh
>> incoming air. I saw such a unit advertised recently. They should be
>> madatory in new buildings.
>>
>> Also we need to use the solid sorption process which I have written of
>> before, where low quality heat is changed to a higher temperature.
>>
>> The power bill is not a great proportion of  the average income. So
>> charging more will only help a little to have power more valued. People
>> will not think how valuing power values our environment. I believe it
>> needs building regs as for safety &c.
>>
>> Brian Sandle
>>
>> Info about Brian Sandle: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/briansandle
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3SNMYCM9OYMbmpFNLd1vRs
>> -----------------------------------------
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>>
>>  More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>>  http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>
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>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008
> 3:51 PM
>
Hi Peeps,

Michael makes the point (irrespective of any error in detail before it's
jumped on) that there are no quick, snappy answers.  Any strategy must
include all the relevant factors rather than the usual 'the answer's energy
conservation, wind, nuclear or whatever [insert solution of your choice]'.

Brian says "The power bill is not a great proportion of  the
average income".  I went to CEA's workshop on 'fuel poverty' on 4th June.
Power bills can have a big impact when  they bite into your limited
disposable income.  This could affect 1 million people in NZ.  "See
http://www.cea.co.nz/news-research.

Also check out the new building regs.

I see Tim's dodging again but that's business!

Cheers.

Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Kerr" <<email obscured>>
To: <<email obscured>>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:43 PM
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Canterbury Energy strategy

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "business.research.co.nz" <<email obscured>>
> To: <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 8:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Canterbury Energy strategy
>
>
>> Interesting comment Brian. I don't actually argue "keep the price down
>> and
>> people will use more..." I really mean "If the price is low enough more
>> people will use it." Quite a difference.
>> Cheers,
>> Tim Kerr.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Sandle" <<email obscured>>
>> To: <<email obscured>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Canterbury Energy strategy
>>
>>
>>> 'Just Blair' Anderson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What we have done is left it up to a few good folk to do the best they
>>>> can empowered by the content of their own wallets.
>>>>
>>>> Having delivered the earthday speech at ECAN back in May on relevent
>>>> local energy options - one can be a tad cynical as to where we need to
>>>> take this conversation.
>>>>
>>>> There is a lot of posturing and not much production...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Produce more, keep the price down and someone will go ahead and use
>>> more, sort of a Tim's argument. We will be back where we were.
>>>
>>> Say we increase production by 5%. But then I see there is application
>>> for apartments in Marine Pde/Union St: "It is considered that the
>>> requirement for areas to provide for washing lines and the like are not
>>> practical for multi unit apartment living.." I think that will eat up 5%
>>> of a power bill.
>>>
>>> We need to be sure people can make use of natural heating wherever
>>> possible, i.e. make sure clothes lines are available, and ration
>>> electricity use in proportion. Quite often, for example, in the morning,
>>> the outdoor air temperature may be greater than the indoor air
>>> temperature, since insulation and lack of ventilation has stopped that
>>> heat getting in.
>>>
>>> Also ventilation outgoing air can have its heat exchanged to teh
>>> incoming air. I saw such a unit advertised recently. They should be
>>> madatory in new buildings.
>>>
>>> Also we need to use the solid sorption process which I have written of
>>> before, where low quality heat is changed to a higher temperature.
>>>
>>> The power bill is not a great proportion of  the average income. So
>>> charging more will only help a little to have power more valued. People
>>> will not think how valuing power values our environment. I believe it
>>> needs building regs as for safety &c.
>>>
>>> Brian Sandle
>>>
>>> Info about Brian Sandle: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/briansandle
>>>
>>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3SNMYCM9OYMbmpFNLd1vRs
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>  To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>>>  To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>>>  in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>>>
>>>  More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>>>  http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>>
>>>  E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>>
>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date:
>> 4/22/2008
>> 3:51 PM
>>
>
>
> Tim Kerr
>
> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/AxMuilUAnFucrptwYH1FP
> -----------------------------------------
>  To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>  To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>  in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
>  More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>  http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>
>  E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
Tim Kerr wrote:
>
>> Interesting comment Brian. I don't actually argue "keep the price down and
>> people will use more..." I really mean "If the price is low enough more
>> people will use it." Quite a difference.
>> Cheers,
>> Tim Kerr.
>>
But clothing can be very cheap so why don't people use more of that?

Years ago I requested of TVNZ that announcers dressed very warmly, as an
example to suggest watchers might also. How are they doing? I suppose
it's not very marketish.

It's hard to take the bull by the horns and overcome what people think
of you. Mother encouraged me to wear to primary school a wollen bonnet
with ear flaps, which received some nuisance comments form schoolmates.

A dust mask or even a couple of handkerchiefs tied around the nose can
keep it warm. A motorcycle cold weather mask could be better. Maybe
there are ones with proper heat exchangers between outgoing and incoming
air. Fresh air - oxygen helps us to want to breath and so work the
metabolism. So heat capturing-exchanging ventillators in our bedrooms
could help.

My metabolism does not work so well if I eat too much wheat product and
I can get cold extremities. Perhaps some substances in wheat are
haemagglutinins for ny type of blood. I note that blood typing labs can
use certain plant substances to determine the blood type by finding if
they agglutinate that sample. Or excess sugary fruit of some types may
not be good. Perhaps it encourages too much blood sugar which is a nerve
problem.

My power bill does not eat into my disposable income as much as my
communications bill.

Might try to get to:

Event: *Public Talk:  An overview of the resource consents process with
reference to the Central Plains Water Scheme*
Speaker: Donald Fraser, Consents Hearing officer, ECAN
Where: Canterbury WEA, 59 Gloucester Street
When: Wednesday 25 June, 1.30 - 2.30pm.
Cost: $4.
Contact: Phone 366 0285. All welcome!

>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Sandle" <<email obscured>>
>> To: <<email obscured>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Canterbury Energy strategy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Produce more, keep the price down and someone will go ahead and use
>>> more, sort of a Tim's argument. We will be back where we were.
>>>
>>> Say we increase production by 5%. But then I see there is application
>>> for apartments in Marine Pde/Union St: "It is considered that the
>>> requirement for areas to provide for washing lines and the like are not
>>> practical for multi unit apartment living.." I think that will eat up 5%
>>> of a power bill.
>>>
Hi Brian, I take you point about my comments "if the price is low more
people will use it."

I think - though maybe someone can correct me on this.... that clothing is
relatively cheaper now than in the past. The net result has been that people
now BUY or OWN more clothing - but wear less of it!

Up until sometime around the mid to late 1950's males wore a full set of
underwear, a white or modestly-patterned shirt, a collar, tie, suit -
sometimes with a waist coat - a scarf, darned woollen socks, shoes,
galoshes, and wore a heavy full-length wool overcoat, topped off by a hat
and umbrella.

But even well-off males only owned one or two suits, one coat, one
umbrella..... and wore components of this outfit to the beach in summer!

Today, with (relatively) cheaper clothing people buy items for decorative
reasons - to drape around themselves to emphasise particular parts of their
anatomy etc... or they purchase clothing to meets a specific technical
need... a set of stretch and grow lycra garments to ride their bicycle,
polypropelene (or Merino wool or silk) thermals for tramping...

So, lower prices have lead to an increase in clothing purchased - but the
purposes of the clothing have also changed.

The garments people wore up to the late 1950's reflected the poorly heated
aircraft, cars, trams and workplaces they had to work, live and travel in.

So Brian we have the situation where "clothing can be very cheap, so people
use more of it - but less of it!" That is, instead of buying one woollen
swimsuit - with skirt - that lasts several summers, they buy three
contrasting colours of thongs and tops and mix and match them with a few wet
Tee shirts. They buy their clothing in little pieces!

Cheers,
Tim Kerr

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Sandle" <<email obscured>>
To: <<email obscured>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Canterbury Energy strategy

> Tim Kerr wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting comment Brian. I don't actually argue "keep the price down
>>> and
>>> people will use more..." I really mean "If the price is low enough more
>>> people will use it." Quite a difference.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Tim Kerr.
>>>
> But clothing can be very cheap so why don't people use more of that?
>
> Years ago I requested of TVNZ that announcers dressed very warmly, as an
> example to suggest watchers might also. How are they doing? I suppose
> it's not very marketish.
>
> It's hard to take the bull by the horns and overcome what people think
> of you. Mother encouraged me to wear to primary school a wollen bonnet
> with ear flaps, which received some nuisance comments form schoolmates.
>
> A dust mask or even a couple of handkerchiefs tied around the nose can
> keep it warm. A motorcycle cold weather mask could be better. Maybe
> there are ones with proper heat exchangers between outgoing and incoming
> air. Fresh air - oxygen helps us to want to breath and so work the
> metabolism. So heat capturing-exchanging ventillators in our bedrooms
> could help.
>
> My metabolism does not work so well if I eat too much wheat product and
> I can get cold extremities. Perhaps some substances in wheat are
> haemagglutinins for ny type of blood. I note that blood typing labs can
> use certain plant substances to determine the blood type by finding if
> they agglutinate that sample. Or excess sugary fruit of some types may
> not be good. Perhaps it encourages too much blood sugar which is a nerve
> problem.
>
> My power bill does not eat into my disposable income as much as my
> communications bill.
>
>
> Might try to get to:
>
> Event: *Public Talk:  An overview of the resource consents process with
> reference to the Central Plains Water Scheme*
> Speaker: Donald Fraser, Consents Hearing officer, ECAN
> Where: Canterbury WEA, 59 Gloucester Street
> When: Wednesday 25 June, 1.30 - 2.30pm.
> Cost: $4.
> Contact: Phone 366 0285. All welcome!
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brian Sandle" <<email obscured>>
>>> To: <<email obscured>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:27 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Canterbury Energy strategy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Produce more, keep the price down and someone will go ahead and use
>>>> more, sort of a Tim's argument. We will be back where we were.
>>>>
>>>> Say we increase production by 5%. But then I see there is application
>>>> for apartments in Marine Pde/Union St: "It is considered that the
>>>> requirement for areas to provide for washing lines and the like are not
>>>> practical for multi unit apartment living.." I think that will eat up
>>>> 5%
>>>> of a power bill.
>>>>
>
>
>
> Brian Sandle
>
> Info about Brian Sandle: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/briansandle
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/cSoeRAw8Uqe3RY79YPAfR
> -----------------------------------------
>  To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>  To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>  in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
>  More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>  http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>
>  E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008
3:51 PM

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