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There are 23 posts — by 13 authors — in this topic.
Latest post made by Leslie Hittner at Jun 23 02:30 UTC

Posts with files
From	File	Date
Leslie Hittner	BridgeProposal.pdf	Jun 20 04:28 UTC
Monta May	Winona.jpg	Jun 20 17:12 UTC
Leslie Hittner	BridgeProposal 2.pdf	Jun 23 00:56 UTC

From: Dwayne Voegeli Date: Jun 17 21:43 UTC Short link

Today (Tuesday, June 17th) I asked the County Highway Engineer about where
he would put the bridge, he also said Pelzer Street.

I'm not advocating for that site.

I don't know enough about the issue to make an informed decision yet but I
did want to pass on the information after I saw Joliene's post.

Dwayne Voegeli

From: Joliene Olson Date: Jun 18 01:49 UTC Short link

Thanks Dwayne for checking with the City Engineer.  It is most interesting that
he said that.  If an engineer thinks it is possible then I hope the powers to
be consider it.  It would make Huff safer without all the loss of property to
widen it etc.  No one could like all the traffic and trucks etc going by WSU
and what about having to take part of Lake Winona to make the road wider and
that doesn't even take into consideration the trouble with the railroad tracks.
Using Huff is certainly not very practical when there are other options
available.

Joliene Olson

From: Steve Kranz Date: Jun 18 02:22 UTC Short link

I agree that it would be nice to have the trucks routed away from the
central part of the city, but do you think that routing the traffic away
from downtown would make things worse for downtown businesses?  There's
probably a lot of traffic that comes across the bridge to shop.

Steve Kranz

From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 18 02:23 UTC Short link

The only concern I would have with a bridge relocation to Pelzer
Street is that it is quite far west and possibly in the airport
runway glidepath. There may be some FAA height restrictions that
will have to be taken into account. Such a relocation might also
have to be discussed with Wisconsin because ultimately the road
must meet up with their highway.

As I look at an area map, it appears that if the bridge angled
from near its present north end to the west, it could join
Riverview Drive just north of Fiberite and from there to Pelzer.
That would also allow it to hook up to the present highway and
secondary bridge leading into Wisconsin.

Might mean removing some tracks and widening Riverview Drive to
4 lanes. Huff could end at Second Street and a secondary bridge
access could be provided by going west on Second Street and then
north to Riverview Drive just west of the bridge connection.

As an alternative, Huff could remain and continue past the
bridge to the west on Riverview with no access to the bridge
itself from Huff westbound.

A few thoughts...

-Leslie Hittner

From: Linda Fort Date: Jun 18 12:24 UTC Short link

My husband drives semi for a local company and he says driving around the
truck route in Winona is a nightmare.
 It weaves around too many streets.  I understand this is necessary to get
to various plants in town but for those semis who are not making a delivery
or picking one up in Winona but need to cross the river a straight shot from
61 to WI would be ideal.
 It would also be easier for those semis going to the terminal with corn and
beans.
 It is a wonder there are not more semi/car accidents in Winona.

Linda Fort
Ridgeway



>I agree that it would be nice to have the trucks routed away from the
> central part of the city, but do you think that routing the traffic away
> from downtown would make things worse for downtown businesses?  There's
> probably a lot of traffic that comes across the bridge to shop.
>
> Steve Kranz
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Joliene Olson <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Dwayne for checking with the City Engineer.  It is most
>> interesting
>> that he said that.  If an engineer thinks it is possible then I hope the
>> powers to be consider it.  It would make Huff safer without all the loss
>> of
>> property to widen it etc.  No one could like all the traffic and trucks
>> etc
>> going by WSU and what about having to take part of Lake Winona to make
>> the
>> road wider and that doesn't even take into consideration the trouble with
>> the railroad tracks. Using Huff is certainly not very practical when
>> there
>> are other options available.
>>
>> Joliene Olson
>>
>>
>> Joliene Olson
>>
>> Info about Joliene Olson:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/7gGuqd5qt3yGTZRFH9QK43
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Steve Kranz
> 338 Pleasant Hill Dr.
> Winona, MN 55987
> 507.474.0985
> <email obscured>
>
> Steve Kranz
> Winona
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From: Joliene Olson Date: Jun 19 02:53 UTC Short link

Thank you to Leslie Hittner for looking at a map and pointing out some of the
factors that would need to be discussed.  I think we just need to look at
options.

As for the traffic coming across from WI, when they came off the bridge they
would turn left to come to the downtown area and if they were headed to places
like JC Penny, HyVee, etc they could turn right and have easier access.  Trucks
headed to the terminals would need to turn right and others, instead of zig
zaging all through town would turn right and go direct to 14/61.

I just can't imagine the slight twisting of the bridge to start where it is and
angle west somewhat wouldn't be just as cheap as widening Huff, dealing with
the railroad at Mark and all the loss of yards and WSU sidewalks etc needed to
widen Huff. As well, as filling in the lake to widen the area crossing there
and that doesn't even mention the traffic that would end up going right through
that area.

Thanks for listening

Joliene Olson

From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 19 11:13 UTC Short link

Joliene,

Not sure if you liked my idea or not. My idea would look like
the new bridge in La Crosse on the north end. The south end
would curve gently to the west (after passing over a straight
main span) and drop to street level onto Riverview Drive. Trucks
and cars from Wisconsin would continue straight west on
Riverview to obtain access to highways 14/61. Trucks and cars
coming from highways 14/61 and continuing into Wisconsin would
come from the west and enter straight onto the bridge (no turns
for trucks).

A secondary access for cars could be provided by turning on and
off the bridge access from Second Street. It works on paper and
meets the needs for shopper access to downtown and points east
(via the secondary route) and easy access for thru-traffic via
Riverview and Pelzer.

-Leslie Hittner

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joliene Olson" <<email obscured>>
To: "Winona Online Democracy" <<email obscured>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 21:54
Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge


> Thank you to Leslie Hittner for looking at a map and pointing
out some of the factors that would need to be discussed.  I
think we just need to look at options.
>
> As for the traffic coming across from WI, when they came off
the bridge they would turn left to come to the downtown area and
if they were headed to places like JC Penny, HyVee, etc they
could turn right and have easier access.  Trucks headed to the
terminals would need to turn right and others, instead of zig
zaging all through town would turn right and go direct to 14/61.
>
> I just can't imagine the slight twisting of the bridge to
start where it is and angle west somewhat wouldn't be just as
cheap as widening Huff, dealing with the railroad at Mark and
all the loss of yards and WSU sidewalks etc needed to widen
Huff. As well, as filling in the lake to widen the area crossing
there and that doesn't even mention the traffic that would end
up going right through that area.
>
> Thanks for listening
>
> Joliene Olson
>
>
> Joliene Olson
>
> Info about Joliene Olson:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/7gGuqd5qt3yGTZRFH9QK43
>
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http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/47I6nHb2dkIxDokk7Oq6pf
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From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 20 04:28 UTC Short link

Attached is a drawing (Adobe Acrobat document).

-Leslie Hittner

The following file was added to this topic.

Name: BridgeProposal.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 147.55KB

From: Steve Kranz Date: Jun 20 05:16 UTC Short link

The drawing posted by Les reminded me of something obvious that I hadn't
been considering . . . the current location of the bridge provides access to
Latch Island (which his proposed route preserves).  If the bridge were
moved, it would eliminate walking/biking/driving access to the boat house
community and Aghaming Park.

On a side note, you'll notice that, with the new email system, when Les
attached a document to his email, it was actually uploaded to Groupserver
with a link placed in the email, rather than being sent as an email
attachment.  This is a nice feature that will prevent large files from
bogging down your incoming email.  The "Winona" homepage on the e-democracy
website has a page where you can access the files that have been uploaded.
If you need to access the file again and, perhaps have deleted the email
with the link to it, you can go to:

http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona/groups/winona/

and click on the "Latest Files" link.

I encourage people to take advantage of this uploading feature to bring
different content into the discussion: pictures, documents, video,
etc. sometimes help to clarify things (like the bridge diagram Les included
did for me).

If you have questions about including a file or have something in particular
you'd like help with (such as a video), just send me an email.

Steve Kranz,
List Manager

From: Paul Double Date: Jun 20 14:47 UTC Short link

This also looks like a better option and than Huff Street.  Could the truck
route on Cummings Street be changed to Vila for a better alignment to get to
highway 61 for south bound or a Highway 43 connection? And running a
connection from River View to the city garage connecting to Vila.

Paul Double

From: Jerome Christenson Date: Jun 20 15:37 UTC Short link

Interesting routing - the drawing makes it much clearer.

My prime question and concern relates to the impact on the dike. Is it
built to support that traffic volume - is there room on top for 4-lanes?
How will the bridge approach be engineered relative to the dike? Could
this have the potential to endanger one critical element of our
infrastructure to rebuild another?

Second, I wonder about extending Ewing St. as an auto route from the
west - Ewing is a one lane street and require complete rebuilding to be
practical. Also, this will bring significantly increased traffic through
residential areas (From Huff along Broadway as well as Ewing).

I can't help thinking the optimal location would be coming off Mankato
Ave. Mankato is already 4-lanes for the greatest part, already
designated a truck route, already carrying bridge-bound traffic as far
as Sarnia and it offers a straight shot to the river. It also has the
advantage of channeling traffic coming off and heading to the bridge
right through our prime retail district - with through streets to the
historic downtown and Winona State.



Jerome Christenson
Online Editor
Winona Daily News
601 Franklin St.
Winona, MN 55987
(507) 453-3522
www.winonadailynews.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Double [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:50 AM
To: 'Winona Online Democracy'
Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge

This also looks like a better option and than Huff Street.  Could the
truck
route on Cummings Street be changed to Vila for a better alignment to
get to
highway 61 for south bound or a Highway 43 connection? And running a
connection from River View to the city garage connecting to Vila.

Paul Double

-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie Hittner [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:29 PM
To: Winona Online Democracy
Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge

Attached is a drawing (Adobe Acrobat document).

-Leslie Hittner

Winona Online Democracy now contains the following file

    http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/2530-2008-06-20T042826Z
    Name: BridgeProposal.pdf
    Tags: "attachment"
    Type: application/pdf
    Size: 147KB


All the files that have been added to Winona Online Democracy can be
viewed
at
    http://forums.e-democracy.org/s/?g=winona&amp;f=1&amp;t=0


Les Hittner

Info about Leslie Hittner:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/2VnBuSDEUMqnsFLSSoUeJ

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Paul  Double

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From: Monta May Date: Jun 20 17:12 UTC Short link

The Mankato Street idea has some merit, but I think it would be more expensive
to do. If you look at the file I have included you will see that there is
nearly 8,000' - over a mile and a half - of river and marshland between where
Mankato ends and any place where an access road could connect to Highway35/54.
I would think that it would be very expensive to build in a wetlands, and there
probably are federal and state restrictions to doing so.

I do not know how bridges between MN & WI are funded, but the current bridge
and access roads seem to be equally divided geographically between MN & WI -
not so any bridge coming off of Mankato street. Can anyone say how the current
bridge was funded or how any future project would be funded? As I said, I do
not know the particulars, but if each state was responsible for obtaining
funding for the portion of the project that is within its borders, the Mankato
idea would put a huge cost on Wisconsin, which they may not feel is a good fit
for them - thus making them less likely to agree to the project.

The following file was added to this topic.

Name: Winona.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 243.23KB

From: Tim Slade Date: Jun 20 17:35 UTC Short link

Latsch Island is in Minnesota, so Wisconsin in not presently involved,
and probably likes it that way.


On Jun 20, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Monta May wrote:

> The Mankato Street idea has some merit, but I think it would be more
> expensive to do. If you look at the file I have included you will
> see that there is nearly 8,000' - over a mile and a half - of river
> and marshland between where Mankato ends and any place where an
> access road could connect to Highway35/54. I would think that it
> would be very expensive to build in a wetlands, and there probably
> are federal and state restrictions to doing so.
>
> I do not know how bridges between MN & WI are funded, but the
> current bridge and access roads seem to be equally divided
> geographically between MN & WI - not so any bridge coming off of
> Mankato street. Can anyone say how the current bridge was funded or
> how any future project would be funded? As I said, I do not know the
> particulars, but if each state was responsible for obtaining funding
> for the portion of the project that is within its borders, the
> Mankato idea would put a huge cost on Wisconsin, which they may not
> feel is a good fit for them - thus making them less likely to agree
> to the project.
>
> Monta
>
>
> Winona Online Democracy now contains the following file
>
>    http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/2532-2008-06-20T171204Z
>    Name: Winona.jpg
>    Tags: ""
>    Type: image/jpeg
>    Size: 243KB
>
>
> All the files that have been added to Winona Online Democracy can be
> viewed at
>    http://forums.e-democracy.org/s/?g=winona&amp;f=1&amp;t=0
>
>
> Monta May
> W2P2, Winona
> Info about Monta May: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/42pevyF5FjRBJ3LniDKAIg
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From: Roy Nasstrom Date: Jun 20 21:21 UTC Short link

:
I doubt that aid from Wisconsin for a new bridge is likely. Governor Doyle
cut some $100,000,000 from a bridge bill this year, defeating a veto attempt
by Republicans and a few Democrats. Representative Barbara Gronemus called
his actions "a disaster." Disaster or not, his cut follows a pattern, since
he cut almost $400,000,000 in 2005 and a large amount in 2003. A few months
ago, an executive of a bridge inspection firm complained that his operation
could not do an adequate job in inspecting bridges because funds were
insufficient. The funds were transferred to other needs, such as education,
that Doyle and a legislative majority believed to merit  more assistance
than transportation, including bridges. Budgets always involve trade-offs.

If any money is available, I'm sure it will be used to deal with the
problems caused by the recent  flooding. Even a bridge over the Mississippi
that does encompass some of Wisconsin's territory, the St Croix bridge,
which handles far more traffic than the Winona bridge, has received no
promise of Wisconsin money, despite some urgent requests by Minnesota. Doyle
has simply said that he will make no decision now and is waiting to see what
federal funds are available.

So I think it is safe to say that Minnesota--presumably the state, although
perhaps also Winona for some aspects of shore construction--can expect to go
ahead without its neighboring state. I wonder how many people expect that
bridge tolls will be commonplace in the future?


Roy Nasstrom


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Slade" <<email obscured>>
To: "Monta May" <<email obscured>>
Cc: "Winona Online Democracy" <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge


> Latsch Island is in Minnesota, so Wisconsin in not presently involved,
> and probably likes it that way.
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2008, at 12:15 PM, Monta May wrote:
>
>> The Mankato Street idea has some merit, but I think it would be more
>> expensive to do. If you look at the file I have included you will
>> see that there is nearly 8,000' - over a mile and a half - of river
>> and marshland between where Mankato ends and any place where an
>> access road could connect to Highway35/54. I would think that it
>> would be very expensive to build in a wetlands, and there probably
>> are federal and state restrictions to doing so.
>>
>> I do not know how bridges between MN & WI are funded, but the
>> current bridge and access roads seem to be equally divided
>> geographically between MN & WI - not so any bridge coming off of
>> Mankato street. Can anyone say how the current bridge was funded or
>> how any future project would be funded? As I said, I do not know the
>> particulars, but if each state was responsible for obtaining funding
>> for the portion of the project that is within its borders, the
>> Mankato idea would put a huge cost on Wisconsin, which they may not
>> feel is a good fit for them - thus making them less likely to agree
>> to the project.
>>
>> Monta
>>
>>
>> Winona Online Democracy now contains the following file
>>
>>    http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/2532-2008-06-20T171204Z
>>    Name: Winona.jpg
>>    Tags: ""
>>    Type: image/jpeg
>>    Size: 243KB
>>
>>
>> All the files that have been added to Winona Online Democracy can be
>> viewed at
>>    http://forums.e-democracy.org/s/?g=winona&amp;f=1&amp;t=0
>>
>>
>> Monta May
>> W2P2, Winona
>> Info about Monta May:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/42pevyF5FjRBJ3LniDKAIg
>>
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>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5uk11MJiOhhdnp6C9UGuHY
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>
>
> Tim Slade
>
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From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 20 23:07 UTC Short link

Jerome,

I think you're right about Ewing, although when one considers
the cost of the other proposals, modifying Ewing from the access
point to Third Street has to be trivial.

I had first considered extending Second to the west and still
favor that idea (See my original posts.) The end of Ewing
pointing right at the access point to the bridge distracted me
when I actually looked at the map! I should have stayed the
course...

As I noted earlier, it might even be possible to run Huff past
the bridge access on the north and the south merging into
Riverview west of that access.

I'll let the details of how to do it up to the engineers.
Obviously, the bridge support structures would not be built on
top of the dike. They would be built right through it. All the
dike would have to support is a roadway - which it already does.

I imagine that additional lanes could be added to the south of
the existing roadway - with added fill where needed.

Curving to the west keeps the access in a part of town that does
not disrupt the community. Going directly to Huff - or Main for
that matter - divides the downtown because the bridge cannot
reach street level until Fourth Street - maybe even further if
standards have changed.

Good luck convincing Wisconsin to build a completely new road!
I really think the bridge north end will have to remain on Latch
Island near its present location.

-Leslie Hittner

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerome Christenson" <<email obscured>>
To: "Winona Online Democracy" <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 10:37
Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge


> Interesting routing - the drawing makes it much clearer.
>
> My prime question and concern relates to the impact on the
dike. Is it
> built to support that traffic volume - is there room on top
for 4-lanes?
> How will the bridge approach be engineered relative to the
dike? Could
> this have the potential to endanger one critical element of
our
> infrastructure to rebuild another?
>
> Second, I wonder about extending Ewing St. as an auto route
from the
> west - Ewing is a one lane street and require complete
rebuilding to be
> practical. Also, this will bring significantly increased
traffic through
> residential areas (From Huff along Broadway as well as Ewing).
>
> I can't help thinking the optimal location would be coming off
Mankato
> Ave. Mankato is already 4-lanes for the greatest part, already
> designated a truck route, already carrying bridge-bound
traffic as far
> as Sarnia and it offers a straight shot to the river. It also
has the
> advantage of channeling traffic coming off and heading to the
bridge
> right through our prime retail district - with through streets
to the
> historic downtown and Winona State.
>
>
>
> Jerome Christenson
> Online Editor
> Winona Daily News
> 601 Franklin St.
> Winona, MN 55987
> (507) 453-3522
> www.winonadailynews.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Double [mailto:<email obscured>]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:50 AM
> To: 'Winona Online Democracy'
> Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge
>
> This also looks like a better option and than Huff Street.
Could the
> truck
> route on Cummings Street be changed to Vila for a better
alignment to
> get to
> highway 61 for south bound or a Highway 43 connection? And
running a
> connection from River View to the city garage connecting to
Vila.
>
> Paul Double
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leslie Hittner [mailto:<email obscured>]
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 11:29 PM
> To: Winona Online Democracy
> Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge
>
> Attached is a drawing (Adobe Acrobat document).
>
> -Leslie Hittner
>
> Winona Online Democracy now contains the following file
>
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/2530-2008-06-20T042826Z
>     Name: BridgeProposal.pdf
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From: Roy Nasstrom Date: Jun 20 23:46 UTC Short link

I doubt that aid from Wisconsin for a new bridge is likely. Governor Doyle
cut some $100,000,000 from a bridge bill this year, defeating a veto attempt
by Republicans and a few Democrats. Representative Barbara Gronemus called
his actions "a disaster." Disaster or not, his cut follows a pattern, since
he cut almost $400,000,000 in 2005 and a large amount in 2003. A few months
ago, an executive of a bridge inspection firm complained that his operation
could not do an adequate job in inspecting bridges because funds were
insufficient. The funds were transferred to other needs, such as education,
that Doyle and a legislative majority believed to merit  more assistance
than transportation, including bridges. Budgets always involve trade-offs.

If any money is available, I'm sure it will be used to deal with the
problems caused by the recent  flooding. Even a bridge over the Mississippi
that does encompass some of Wisconsin's territory, the St Croix bridge,
which handles far more traffic than the Winona bridge, has received no
promise of Wisconsin money, despite some urgent requests by Minnesota. Doyle
has simply said that he will make no decision now and is waiting to see what
federal funds are available.

So I think it is safe to say that Minnesota--presumably the state, although
perhaps also Winona for some aspects of shore construction--can expect to go
ahead without its neighboring state. I wonder how many people expect that
bridge tolls will be commonplace in the future?


Roy Nasstrom



Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge

From: John Finn Date: Jun 21 03:35 UTC Short link

Unless the bridge is located far from a populated area, I hope it would have
sound barrier walls similar to Wabasha's. The approach intersection area
would need them also.

Since my Lamberton Home neighborhood stands in the path of a Huff Street
alignment, I'd like to think there's a chance it would come down as per Mr.
Hittner's map. (Sound barriers still needed, BTW) MnDot personnel that
visited Winona a couple of months ago thought that was an interesting
concept since it utilized the new Pelzer RR crossing.

Obstacles to that would be the need for traffic access to downtown and for
trucks to get to east end riverfront industries and Bay State. Wouldn't the
Union Pacific have veto power over any scheme that could disrupt their
switching yard? Elevated connections over the yard? Also, keep in mind that
it's the Highway 43 bridge. Rerouting that road from Homer Road along 61 to
Pelzer and back might be considered too much out of the way.

I apologize for the negativity, but wouldn't MnDot end up taking the path of
least expense? We're at the tail end of a number of expensive projects the
funding for which is a hypothetical estimate. Maybe all things considered, I
hope, a Riverview Drive alignment wouldn't be more costly than taking out my
neighborhood.

John N. Finn

From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 21 11:47 UTC Short link

John,

I'm not a railroad expert, but it seems to me the very reason
for even having a switch yard in that location disappeared when
the railroad river bridge was (partially) dismantled. I think
the need access to only two industries, Bay State and Fiberite,
in that area. The railroad would probably be very open to
selling back some of that property.

Railroad access to the Winona Port facilities would, I think, be
unaffected, since the bridge access is further east. The access
intersection would be located just east of the road into the
Marine Art Museum.

Could someone with more railroad expertise address this issue?

Sound barriers seem to have become a norm in new highway (and
bridge) construction. That would probably be a given.

The secondary bridge access - if designed to accommodate the
turning radius of larger vehicles - could still provide needed
truck-route access to Second Street - already a truck route.

I don't think routing thru-traffic via Pelzer street adds enough
mileage for highway 43 users to override the obvious advantages
of the railroad overpass and increased speed limits of the
Pelzer option. The design could officially continue highway 43
through Winona (Main to Second or Mankato to Second - I prefer
the latter) with the Pelzer option labeled as a truck by-pass
for thru-traffic.

I'd wager that drivers of most thru-trucks would opt for Pelzer
and if car drivers chose to continue moving through the city,
that would be to local retail business' advantage.

-Leslie Hittner


----- Original Message -----
From: "john finn" <<email obscured>>
To: <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 22:34
Subject: Re: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge


> Unless the bridge is located far from a populated area, I hope
it would have
> sound barrier walls similar to Wabasha's. The approach
intersection area
> would need them also.
>
> Since my Lamberton Home neighborhood stands in the path of a
Huff Street
> alignment, I'd like to think there's a chance it would come
down as per Mr.
> Hittner's map. (Sound barriers still needed, BTW) MnDot
personnel that
> visited Winona a couple of months ago thought that was an
interesting
> concept since it utilized the new Pelzer RR crossing.
>
> Obstacles to that would be the need for traffic access to
downtown and for
> trucks to get to east end riverfront industries and Bay State.
Wouldn't the
> Union Pacific have veto power over any scheme that could
disrupt their
> switching yard? Elevated connections over the yard? Also, keep
in mind that
> it's the Highway 43 bridge. Rerouting that road from Homer
Road along 61 to
> Pelzer and back might be considered too much out of the way.
>
> I apologize for the negativity, but wouldn't MnDot end up
taking the path of
> least expense? We're at the tail end of a number of expensive
projects the
> funding for which is a hypothetical estimate. Maybe all things
considered, I
> hope, a Riverview Drive alignment wouldn't be more costly than
taking out my
> neighborhood.
>
> John N. Finn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dwayne and Denine Voegeli [mailto:<email obscured>]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 4:43 PM
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: [Winona] Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge
>
> Today (Tuesday, June 17th) I asked the County Highway Engineer
about where
> he would put the bridge, he also said Pelzer Street.
>
> I'm not advocating for that site.
>
> I don't know enough about the issue to make an informed
decision yet but I
> did want to pass on the information after I saw Joliene's
post.
>
> Dwayne Voegeli
>
>
>
>
>
> John Finn
>
> Info about John Finn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnfinn
>
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http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3wZWmFdwaHHxucQy02Qvbu
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Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1511 - Release Date:
6/20/2008 11:52 AM

From: Craig Brooks Date: Jun 21 13:53 UTC Short link

Bob and others -- re: file access

go to --   http://forums.e-democracy.org/s?t=0&f=1&g=winona
and you can retrieve any file that people have shared.  It's like our own
shared file cabinet.
Craig Brooks

From: Joliene Olson Date: Jun 21 16:03 UTC Short link

There have been some really detailed points made and I hope they don't get
lost.I know that some of our elected officials read the forum but does anyone
know if the suggestions made in these posting will get to the MNDOT and city
and county, and legislative officials that will be deciding the bridge fate in
the end??

Does anyone else wish that the most recent posting were at the top instead of
the bottom?  Just a thought.

Thank you Craig for the suggestion on how to go to the files.  I am going to
try it.

Joliene Olson

From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 23 00:56 UTC Short link

Taking into account Jerome's observations about Ewing and the
information supplied by Tim and others, I came up with another
drawing. The two secondary access ramps spiral down from high
points on the bridge and pass over the railroad switch yard.
They eventually reach street level on Second Street.

The primary access drops to street level on Riverview

I assumed the main span of the bridge would be 4 lanes. Two
lanes assigned to primary access and two lanes assigned to
secondary access on the Winona end.

This would be a bit more spendy then a stright up and straight
down bridge, but in my opinion it meets the needs that have been
articulated by many on this forum:

1. It provides high speed (45 mph) beltline access to highways
14/61/43 via Riverview/Pelzer that is immune to railroad
activity.

2. It provides direct access to industries in the city's north
and east sides via Second Street.

3. It divides commuter traffic into westward and eastward
streams.

4. It preserves the railroad's switch yard.

5. It employs streets that have already been designated as truck
routes.

6. It would keep most commercial thru-traffic out of the city.

7. The entire bridge construction is on the perimeter of the
city. It does not disrupt residential or business neighborhoods.

Click in the link and have a look.

Leslie Hittner

The following file was added to this topic.

Name: BridgeProposal 2.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 135.59KB

From: Bob Sebo Date: Jun 23 01:35 UTC Short link

I think you are on to the concept, Les...but there is one drawback to your
design as presented.  Riverview Drive only goes to Wisconsin...you can't get
downtown from the Marine Art Museum.

What I think would be terrific (and I know will never be built because of
cost...besides, they only do this kind of thing in the cities...smiles)
would first off bring the bridge into alignment with Huff.  Westbound 43
traffic on the bridge is divided as "LocalTraffic/Downtown/No Trucks/Huff
Street" in the left lane and "Thru Traffic/All Trucks/MN 43" in the right
lane.  The right lane peels off onto Riverview Drive, the left lane goes
straight ahead down onto Huff.  On Riverview the left lane is MN 43 and
heads across the river, the right lane is local traffic into downtown.  On
Huff that is now 4 lane from Fifth Street north, the right lane
somehow...lol...snakes underneath the bridge and connects to Riverview and
the left lane goes over the bridge.

I've been trying to draw it with varying degrees of failure...but we have
six years people, we may as well think outside the box about a major
investment that will impact Winona for decades to come.

I'm glad the forum has been reinvigorated...I enjoy the conversation.  Just
curious...was anyone on-list  on the parade route when the vehicle with the
dance troupe started on fire?   No one was hurt, I understand, but I'm
curious if it was a real fire or whatever.  Thanks.

Bob Sebo

From: Leslie Hittner Date: Jun 23 02:30 UTC Short link

Bob,

You're right!... Back to the drawing board.

Add to the topic Fw: Relocation of the interstate bridge [?]

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