All posts in the topic Palin and her running mate (Short link)
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- There are 21 posts — by 11 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Rick Mons at Oct 07 22:30 UTC
forgot to include this link http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-onthemedia26-2008sep26,0,7467803.story On a MN note, with WA MU failed, the McCain leadership unable to stem a debacle at the White House, where do our Senators and Congresspersons stand? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_bi_ge/financial_meltdown;_ylt=ApCo3zHhr6WLVj9H1xsrT6x34T0D I heard McCollum is opposed. What does anyone else know?
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/palin-obama-is-palling-around-with-terrorists/ This is the kind of lying Palin and McCain are blabbing about to take the focus off the economy. Also the McCain Campaign has announced that they will be "swift boating" Obama. For those who feed on sound bites to choose who to vote for, this is mother's milk. We're seeing the twilight years of American democracy.
> This is the kind of lying Palin and McCain are blabbing
> about to take the focus off the economy.
Well, you're partly right; Mac SHOULD focus on the Dems' role in gutting the
credit markets (the CRA and the mandates for Fan and Fred to buy sub-prime
loans were the catalyst for the current misery; Mac was one of few senators on
EITHER side that did anything about it. THAT truth is out there, although not
in our left-leaning media).
> Also the McCain
> Campaign has announced that they will be "swift
> boating" Obama.
"Swift Boating: Noun. To tell the truth about a Democrat".
> For those who feed on sound bites to
> choose who to vote for, this is mother's milk.
Right. We're audaciously hoping. It's time for change - not just change, but
change you can believe in.
No Obama supporter had best be yipping about trivialization.
> We're seeing the twilight years of American democracy.
Perhaps - but only because of Obama. Didja see how his goons are trying to sic
the FCC on broadcasters that run a *factual* McCain ad criticizing Obama? How
he wants to reinstate the "Fairness" Doctrine? With the full connivance of the
left, who only gets upset when the civil liberties of terrorists and
pornographers are infringed...
Palling around with terrorists are the least of my worries with Obama.
If Obama wins, then on inauguration day he will be the worst president of my
lifetime already. And beating out Carter will take some doing.
He's the guy for the job, though. We can tell already.
Mitch Berg
The Midway
So you don't think Obama's association with terrorist William Ayers is real or material? The media starting with the New York Times is doing it's share to cover this situation up. I think the American people need to hear the facts on the Ayers association and let them make a decision. I think the Ayers association is material. It goes straight to the heart of who Obama really is which is a hard left radical. If you want to vote for a hard left radical that is your business. But if you are one of the sheep who is being tricked into voting for a hard left radical well that's another story. I applaud this effort to get the truth out because if McCain Palin don't start telling truth we know the media will not do their jobs. It's essentially common knowledge now that the media is in bed with the Left which is the true cause of us "seeing the twilight years of American democracy". You know darn well if Palin started her political career in the home of someone like Ayers the whole world would be screaming. Well the Media would scream followed by the left followed by the lemmings. Lee Surma Maple Grove On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:17:08 +0000 WIZARD MARKS <wizardmarks@q.com> wrote: > http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/palin-obama-is-palling-around-with-terrorists/
Apropos of the argument that Democratic banking policies, specifically CRA, are the cause of the current credit crisis: "Rhetoric aside, the argument turns on a simple question: In the current mortgage meltdown, did lenders approve bad loans to comply with CRA, or to make money? The evidence strongly suggests the latter. First, consider timing. CRA was enacted in 1977. The sub-prime lending at the heart of the current crisis exploded a full quarter century later. In the mid-1990s, new CRA regulations and a wave of mergers led to a flurry of CRA activity, but, as noted by the New America Foundation's Ellen Seidman (and by Harvard's Joint Center), that activity "largely came to an end by 2001." In late 2004, the Bush administration announced plans to sharply weaken CRA regulations, pulling small and mid-sized banks out from under the law's toughest standards. Yet sub-prime lending continued, and even intensified -- at the very time when activity under CRA had slowed and the law had weakened. Second, it is hard to blame CRA for the mortgage meltdown when CRA doesn't even apply to most of the loans that are behind it. ... half of sub-prime loans came from those mortgage companies beyond the reach of CRA. A further 25 to 30 percent came from bank subsidiaries and affiliates, which come under CRA to varying degrees but not as fully as banks themselves. ... Most important, the lenders subject to CRA have engaged in less, not more, of the most dangerous lending. ..." http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=did_liberals_cause_the_subprime_crisis
On Oct 5, 2008, at 3:46 PM, Lee wrote:
> So you don't think Obama's association with terrorist
> William Ayers is real or material? The media starting with
> the New York Times is doing it's share to cover this
> situation up. I think the American people need to hear the
> facts on the Ayers association and let them make a
> decision. I think the Ayers association is material.
Other than repeating the contrivance, neither Palin nor the McCain
campaign put forth any evidence of a substantive relationship. In
contrast, the New York Times article that Palin misquotes says:
• "... at a lunchtime meeting about school reform in a Chicago
skyscraper, Barack Obama met Mr. Ayers, by then an education
professor. Their paths have crossed sporadically since then, at a
coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office, on the
schools project and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as
Hyde Park neighbors."
• "the two men do not appear to have been close. Nor has Mr.
Obama ever expressed sympathy for the radical views and actions of
Mr. Ayers, whom he has called 'somebody who engaged in detestable
acts 40 years ago, when I was 8.' "
• "In March 1995, Mr. Obama became chairman of the six-member
board that oversaw the distribution of grants in Chicago. Some
bloggers have recently speculated that Mr. Ayers had engineered that
post for him.
In fact, according to several people involved, Mr. Ayers played no
role in Mr. Obama’s appointment."
• the NYT article reports that Ayers and Obama served on a
couple of boards together; Ayers hosted a coffee for Obama as a
candidate for State Senator; and Ayers and his wife contributed $200
to Obama's campaign for State Senate. That's it ... and the reporter
concludes: "Since 2002, there is little public evidence of their
relationship."
The McCain campaign -- and apparently two posers here -- are engaging
in fabrication of the worst sort.
All right since we are escalating to seriously deficient attacks at this point. How about considering that Gov. Palin sleeps with someone who was a secessionist (Alaska Independence Party). As I recall secession was, and perhaps sitll is, considered a treasonous act. Is there a possible violation of her oath as governor - isshe part of a grand plan to dissolve the country?--KJohn ShermanOn Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:46:52 -0500"Lee" <lee@honeycomb.net> wrote:> So you don't think Obama's association with terrorist > William Ayers is real or material? The media starting >with > the New York Times is doing it's share to cover this > situation up. I think the American people need to hear >the > facts on the Ayers association and let them make a > decision. I think the Ayers association is material. It > goes straight to the heart of who Obama really is which >is > a hard left radical. If you want to vote for a hard left > radical that is your business. But if you are one of the > sheep who is being tricked into voting for a hard left > radical well that's another story. I applaud this effort > to get the truth out because if McCain Palin don't start > telling truth we know the media will not do their jobs. > It's essentially common knowledge now that the media is >in > bed with the Left which is the true cause of us "seeing > the twilight years of American democracy".> > You know darn well if Palin started her political career > in the home of someone like Ayers the whole world would >be > screaming. Well the Media would scream followed by the > left followed by the lemmings.> > Lee Surma> Maple Grove> > > On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 19:17:08 +0000> WIZARD MARKS <wizardmarks@q.com> wrote:>> http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/palin-obama-is-palling-around-with-terrorists/>> >> This is the kind of lying Palin and McCain are blabbing >>about to take the focus off the economy. Also the McCain >>Campaign has announced that they will be "swift boating" >>Obama. For those who feed on sound bites to choose who to >>vote for, this is mother's milk.>> >> We're seeing the twilight years of American democracy. >> >> >> Wizard Marks>> Central, Mpls.>> Info about Wizard Marks:
> Other than repeating the contrivance, neither Palin nor the > McCain > campaign put forth any evidence of a substantive > relationship. In > contrast, the New York Times article that Palin misquotes > says: If you get ANY political news from the NYTimes, you would be better off lobotomizing yourself with a spork. The Times is completely in bed with Obama, in *exactly* the same way the Strib is with...well, every DFL candidate. And Rick, as usual it is the Times that is sodomizing reality. My radio co-host Ed Morrissey has an authoritative takedown - with cites and facts and everything - of the Times' whitewash of the Ayers/Obama relationship: http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/04/gray-lady-on-ayers-obama-connection-nothing-to-see-here-move-along/ Read - and do, please, try to comprehend - that before impughing Palin's honesty. But y'know what? I'd even forgive The Messiah's longstanding associations with Ayers and Jeremiah Wright and all the rest of the corrupt Chicago heelers and demigogues who put Obama where he's at, if it weren't for the *fact* that he is going to crush the First Amendment as a matter of policy. Which is something all too many of you hypocrites are all too ready to support. Mitch Berg The Midway
Rick Mons wrote:
> In contrast, the New York Times article
Mr. Mons, please quote an objective source.
> The McCain campaign -- and apparently two posers here -- are engaging in
> fabrication of the worst sort.
See New York Times, above.
Neal Krasnoff
Minneapolis
Palin's flip, lying accusations (repeated three times in the course of one day)
would be laughable were it not that too many voters are willing to pull the
lever with a head full of sound bites--and not much else--which suit their
predilections.
Today, forty years after Bill Ayers was among those who started the Weather
Underground, he is so tame that he is a professor of education at a Chicago
college, sitting on boards equally tame. His radicalism was the pose of an
angry young man behaving stupidly in the 1960s. Now, he's got kids, grandkids,
a mortgage, and a PhD. If he ever was a threat, he no longer is. Certainly he
was no threat when Obama, who was a child during the 60s, met him some 8 or 10
years go.
We could conclude that McCain and Palin are courting the gullible because they
cannot gain the sympathies of thinking voters. The real question is whether the
preponderance of voters are willing to think for themselves.
On Oct 6, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Mitch Berg wrote: > >> Other than repeating the contrivance, neither Palin nor the >> McCain >> campaign put forth any evidence of a substantive >> relationship. In >> contrast, the New York Times article that Palin misquotes >> says: > > If you get ANY political news from the NYTimes, you would be better > off lobotomizing yourself with a spork. The Times is completely in > bed with Obama, in *exactly* the same way the Strib is with...well, > every DFL candidate. Oh, the "big bad liberal media" excuse gets trotted out instead of any real factual information. Par for the (mini-golf) course. > it is the Times that is sodomizing reality. My radio co-host Ed > Morrissey has an authoritative takedown - with cites and facts and > everything - of the Times' whitewash of the Ayers/Obama relationship: > > http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/04/gray-lady-on-ayers-obama- > connection-nothing-to-see-here-move-along/ > Cites? None. For example, Morrissey provides no cites but writes: "Their paths didn’t cross “sporadically”. They worked on two projects together, political projects, for almost a decade in Chicago. That’s hardly “sporadic”; that’s a well-established working relationship, and certainly much more substantial than Obama’s description of Ayers as just another familiar face in the neighborhood." Using Morrissey's "logic" I guess I'm a Republican since I served on boards of directors with the Rev. Phil Hansen (ran for the US Senate as a Republican against Mondale in 1972), Wheelock Whitney (ran for Governor with the Republican endorsement), Barbara Carlson (a Republican council member feminist that I'm sure Mitch will disavow), and Peter Bell (now Gov. Pawlenty's Met Council Director). Oh, and Phil Krinkie lived down the street before he carpet-bagged to Lino Lakes so he could run in the 6th Congressional District. I'll give Morrissey credit, though, for an aptly named blog: Hot Air. Rick Mons Apparently more of a "Republican" than thou, I guess. Darned Boards come back to haunt you every time!
For a better understanding of the Annenberg Challenge (AC) where Ayers an Obama crossed paths, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge The AC was a complicated organization composed of multiple entities, one of which Obama headed for a time and another of which Ayers headed. This is not to say Obama had nothing to do with Ayers but the relationship is not as clear cut as McCain/Palin and their local supporters would like us to believe. We are seeing the typical Republican, Rovian smear tactics at work. Obama gets involved in an effort to reform the Chicago school system and it turns out that one of the other people involved, years and years ago, was a radical who may have done some bad things. So now we are supposed to stop focusing on the substance of the candidates positions and ask whether Obama is some sort of dangerous radical. What nonsense. What's behind this of course, is McCain's utter lack of any defensible positions with regard to the economy, health care, foreign policy or the other issues that truly matter. He had better be careful though. His past isn't above scrutiny. The Keating affair might be a lot more relevant to the economic problems we're facing today. The Republicans have opened up a second front in their smear campaign by today asking for an audit of Obama's campaign finances, claiming that some foreigners may have contributed to the campaign and that some people may have contributed more than the $2,300 limit. So much for McCain's empty pledge to run an honorable, issues oriented campaign. He's done anything but.
So Bill Ayers has a mortgage? I would like to see proof on
that. His father, Thomas Ayers was very wealthy and and
considered a kingmaker of Chicago politics. I wonder if
there is a connection between Tom Ayers and Obama's
meteoric rise to the top? Maybe they are examining the
wrong Ayers?
Lee Surma
Maple Grove
On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 15:33:20 +0000
Why is it so hard to believe someone has a mortgage? What difference does it make who someone's father is and how rich they are? Again Lee, Republican talking points that have no bearing on any candidate. Except you and the McCain Palin campaign are attempting to change the topic of this campaign from issues to smear tactics. Mike Fratto Payne Phalen Please help those who don't get enough to eat. http://oyh.org http://hungersolutions.org The future depends more on what we do between now and then Than what we did in the past.
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Mike Fratto <mfratto@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Why is it so hard to believe someone has a mortgage?
Lee may have commented on the mortgage but it was Wizard that brought it up.
> Again Lee, Republican talking points that have no bearing on any candidate.
Except you and the McCain Palin campaign are attempting to change the topic of
this campaign from issues to smear tactics.
When has this campaign ever been about the issues?
John Harris
mpls
It is interesting to see how we are viewed from abroad. This is from
the London Times, Ron Liddle column this Sunday:
*The wrong sort of vice girl*
Sarah Palin, the Alaskan-separatist-pig-in-lipstick, had not the
slightest intention of allowing her complete lack of knowledge about
almost everything to spoil her debate with the Democrat
vice-presidential candidate, Joe Biden. “I may not answer the questions
in the way in which the moderators or you want to hear, but I am going
to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track
record,” she said, straight-faced, her make-up not cracking. And so, by
employing the clever strategy of not answering anything properly, and
then winking in the manner of a mid-market call girl, she emerged a sort
of victor. Despite revealing the intellect and political experience of a
whelk. A heartbeat away, remember.
I personally think he is demeaning whelks.
The twittering of Delton and Berg about Fannie and Freddy and trying to
link their problems to reinvestment requirements is plain silly. Fannie
and Freddy played a small role in the subprimes at the height of the
frenzy. They were not leaders, they were followers, but still behaved
stupidly. Since the private speculators, hedge funds, investment banks
and insurers who created the subprime mess pulled out as the house of
cards collapsed, Fanny and Freddy appear large by the absence of the
larger pool of investors.
Not surprising to see Mitch jumping on a program that forced those who
made money from minority areas to reinvest in them.
The prince of deregulation is now having us pay the price of his folly.
You notice of course that he never thought that beer distribution should
be deregulated and free market forces set loose. Monopolies for
distributors works fine for a man who neither knows how many houses or
cars he and his wife own but then the Lexus she drives is owned by her
business with "Ms Bud" plates.
McCain's attacks on Obama give lie to his claims of wanting to change
politics and end the negative campaigning of the past several
elections. He does not want change, he wants power to continue the
failed policies of the past. As someone who supported his efforts on
campaign finance reform, I have been incredibly disappointed by his post
reform reliance on lobbyists in his Senatorial work and the placement of
so many of them in leadership roles in his Presidential campaign.
Cites? Obama's claims of innocence are jammed back down your (plural) collective throat, and you want to argle and piddle over cites? http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/07/cnn-obamas-lying-about-william-ayers/ Cite that. Beyond being a political featherweight, Obama is a liar. Mitch Berg The Midway Who will await the inevitable "survey" showing how much "people" really want this forum to be "safe" from conservative dissent.
For a little perspective on this Obama/Ayers flap we might consider what kind of an organization it was that brought the two of them into contact with each other. The Annenberg Challenge was a $500-million "Challenge to the Nation" matching grant announced in December 1993 by Ambassador Annenberg to encourage effective solutions for schools serving America's most disadvantaged children. The Annenberg mentioned is the now deceased Walter Annenberg who was appointed ambassador to the Court of St. James by Richard Nixon. The Annenberg Challenge organization in Chicago (AC) was not some kind of dangerously radical group. Whatever Ayers may have been in the distant past when he was with the Weathermen (Obama was eight years old at the time), he is today, and was when Obama was connected to the AC, a well respected professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago and known and admired for his knowledge and commitment to quality education. In short, this attack on Obama is a scurrilous attempt to falsely paint him as someone with dangerously radical and unpatriotic leanings. It's a desperate attempt on the part of McCain to rescue a failing campaign bereft of any ideas relevant to the issues that face the nation. McCain's own involvement with Keating is far more relevant to the issues that matter than is Obama's acquaintance with Ayers who is today actually working to make our public schools better. http://www.annenberginstitute.org/About/annorgs.php Charlie Swope St. Paul
Micth, What color is your kool-aid? Mike Schoenberg St. Paul Mitch Berg wrote: > Cites? > > Obama's claims of innocence are jammed back down your (plural) collective throat, and you want to argle and piddle over cites? > > http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/07/cnn-obamas-lying-about-william-ayers/ > > Cite that. > > Beyond being a political featherweight, Obama is a liar. > > Mitch Berg > The Midway > > Who will await the inevitable "survey" showing how much "people" really want this forum to be "safe" from conservative dissent. > > > > > --- On Mon, 10/6/08, Rick Mons <Rick@RickMons.com> wrote: > > >> From: Rick Mons <Rick@RickMons.com> >> Subject: Re: [MN-Pol] Palin and her running mate >> To: "Minnesota Politics and Issues Forum" <mn-politics@forums.e-democracy.org>
Citings of John McCain from fellow POWs at Hanoi Hilton POW prison during the
Vietnam era:
On Oct 7, 2008, at 1:15 PM, Mitch Berg wrote: > Cites? > > http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/07/cnn-obamas-lying-about- > william-ayers/ And once again, Mitch and Morrissey trip up with their breathless lack of "logic." There's no substantive relationship between Ayers and Obama and Obama has never lied about the fact that he served on those educational boards. BTW, Morrissey says that a "nonplussed" Anderson Cooper reacted to the report. I thought the only one who was "nonplussed" was the CNN correspondent when asked about Obama's repudiation of Ayers's criminal acts two decades earlier (when Obama was eight). That correspondent stammered that he didn't have Obama's "exact words." (it's at the 6:22 mark of the clip embedded in Morrissey's blog entry above.) So that there is no mistake, Obama has said that those actions were "detestable acts." BTW, Morrissey also claims that grants were made to "schools with radical agendas." The CNN report provides two examples: • a "Peace School with curriculum centered around a United Nations theme;" and • "another where the focus was African-American studies." Now I realize that neo-cons get the vapors over the United Nations, but I have to question the characterization of "radical agendas" -- except that it's convenient to do so when playing "guilty-by- association." Finally, Morrissey writes that Ayers is "unrepentant." Here's what is quoted from the Times article: "My memoir is from start to finish a condemnation of terrorism, of the indiscriminate murder of human beings, whether driven by fanaticism or official policy,” he wrote. But he added that the Weathermen had “showed remarkable restraint” given the nature of the American bombing campaign in Vietnam that they were trying to stop. Morrissey is simply playing an intellectually dishonest game here -- along with the rest of the McCain camp.