All posts in the topic Yes on MTC buses for public school students (Short link)
Summary
- There are 24 posts — by 13 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Tony Scallon at Oct 15 11:58 UTC
Interesting conversation. I called the FTA's regional offices in Chicago and spoke with an attorney on their staff, Nancy-Ellen Zusman. She confirmed what Charlie wrote below. She also said that an organization (like MTC, or CTA in Chicago) could modify a stop (such as a bus stop) to be at a school, SO LONG AS the bus stop was open to all members of the public, not just school students. Some Mpls and St. Paul alternative and charter public schools are using MTC to transport their students. I do not know if some Minneapolis or St. Paul district students are transported in this manner (although my sense is that some St Paul Public School students are given bus cards. But I am not 100% certain of this). Joe Nathan Humphrey Institute University of Minnesot M Charles Swope wrote: > I believe Carol and Ron have misread the FTA rules here. There is nothing in the statute to prevent students from using regularly scheduled bus service to get to school. If you look at page 2 of the cited FTA publication, you will see a section on so-called "tripper" service. This would seem to apply to having high school students using the public transit system to get to school so long as they are using regularly scheduled service. What the FTA rules prohibit is subsidized carriers using their equipment to go into the school bus business. http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/SchoolBusBrochureJanuary19-2005.pdf
I think school buses in urban areas with public transit are a waste of money on
two fronts: First, the extra unnecessary school buses; second, the lost revenue
to the public transit system.
Good afternoon all,
I wanted to provide some additional information to this thread that
hopefully addresses some of the key questions that have come up. Many
of the ideas mentioned have been or are currently being researched as
to whether they are viable options for MPS. Here are some thoughts
that hopefully answer the key questions that came up.
* MPS has been (and still is) in open discussions with the
Metropolitan Council about this very topic. The discussions include
logistics, affordability, etc... The assumption that this could save
money for everyone isn't totally clear yet.
* MPS also buys over $1M/yr worth of bus tokens for students to get
home when our bussing is not available following some after school
activities. That agreement benefits both the public transportation
and our students. It's a successful partnership.
* According to the Madison Public Schools person I spoke with this
afternoon, Madison WI does offer transportation for elementary
students (yellow busses). Middle and high school students purchase
bus cards for the public transportation system.
* Any increase (or lesser than had been anticipated declines) in high
school enrollment does not have anything to do with the charter school
start times article that someone referenced. While it may have been
sarcasm, that is a whole other topic unrelated. That said, I thought
that article was well written and most of the figures mentioned were
accurate despite the headline that was off base. Again, it's another
issue, but I am happy to talk with anyone about it if you'd like.
Respectfully,
Tom Madden
Director, MPS Board of Education
<email obscured>
612-685-3910
Parent of 3 MPS kids! (who all ride the bus and their bikes throughout
the year)
I would like to know if anyone has investigated how much could be saved by all
districts including MPS if we went to a Master Schedule in the 7 county Metro
Area. This would mean that all school districts would have the same days off
for all breaks. Weather it is for Teacher Conferences, or Winter break,
Thanksgiving, Spring, ect. Especially now with so many inter district kids. Or
kids going from one district to the next, not just special needs like it used
to be. I would think it would save a whole lot of dollars for every district.
For those of you who don't currently know there are days that some bus drivers
get paid to just transport kids to and from one school. The drivers still get a
minimum number of hours weather they work that many or not.
Are we still transporting kids that go to school out of our district home by
Taxi, after extra curricular activities.
Joan Thom
Hawthorne
I have a lot of experience comparing school busses to bus cards. Minnesota
Transitions Charter School (MTS) does use bus cards for almost all High School
Students. We use busses for K-9. Younger students do better and are safer on
busses. Some 9th grade parents prefer the bus to bus cards. The advantage of
the bus is students are picked up at same time and arrive at the same time.
This seems to increase attendance and allows planning for group activity.
A majority of MTS students are no longer residents of Minneapolis. I repeat
for the benefit of MPS school board members and advocates. MTS is not a
majority of Minneapolis Students. We have student coming to our school from
first ring suburbs, St. Paul and even further out. Many of our students work
either during or after school. Totally, we issue bus cards to over 600 high
school students. Our largest site has the convenient go to card that allows us
to reissue the card. This helps with our special needs of using the train and
more expensive rides from rush hour and express busses.
MTS is located near a train station and has excellent bus routes. Our problem
is coordinating students with all these routes. It works but we have to work
hard on attendance especially late students who may have missed their
connections.
We do line up our calendar with Minneapolis since it is still the largest
number of students (not a majority). This works well. Our conferences are
better attended and students can plan their lives accordingly. Minneapolis
used to bus our K-9 students and purchase of bus cards. MPS has effectively
pushed scheduled us out. Our costs are not 1000-1200 but closer to 500 per
student. I am surprised that MPS wants to double the property taxes but does
not help to serve over 25% of Minneapolis students in Charter schools. I hope
this helps the discussion.
Tony Scallon
Longfellow
Minnesota Transitions Charter School
Tony Scallon wrote:
I am surprised that MPS wants to double the property taxes but does
not help to serve over 25% of Minneapolis students in Charter schools. I
hope this helps the discussion.
SK Reply:
With the state level of funding growing at a rate that is half of the rate
of inflation for the past 17 years, it is a shame that the deficit in state
support has shifted responsibility of adequately funding our schools from
the state to local taxpayers. What were initially referred to as "excess"
levies and raised for those local school districts that wanted to add
extras, today have become relied on as a funding source required to pay for
"essentials." The Association of Metropolitan school Districts reports that
more than 90 percent of school districts throughout the state rely on
property tax referendum to fund operations. In 1990, fewer than half
required this source. The Strong Schools Strong City Referendum for the
Minneapolis Public School district is dedicated to essentials: early age
reading, math and science, textbooks and technology and managing class size.
In addition, the MPS district faces a budget deficit of another $15 million
this year. This follows more than $150 million in budget cuts since 2001.
While I believe the district should be open to considering and exploring
opportunities to coordinate efforts to serve the Charter School population,
I believe it is clear that MPS's plate is full with working to meet is own
challenges to satisfactorily serve its current population. Given its budget
and performance realities, I would find it irresponsible for the MPS
district to divert scarce resources to other school districts, including
Charter Schools. Charter Schools established as their own school districts
and have their own legislatively driven funding methods and sources.
School districts need to co-exist. Hopefully can do so in a way that doesn't
spend much time and effort pointing fingers at one another. That takes the
eye off the prize, our students.
Steve Kotvis
Kenwood, Minneapolis
joan thom wrote:
I would like to know if anyone has investigated how much could be saved by all
districts including MPS if we went to a Master Schedule in the 7 county Metro
Area. This would mean that all school districts would have the same days off
for all breaks. Weather it is for Teacher Conferences, or Winter break,
Thanksgiving, Spring, ect. Especially now with so many inter district kids. Or
kids going from one district to the next, not just special needs like it used
to be. I would think it would save a whole lot of dollars for every district.
For those of you who don't currently know there are days that some bus drivers
get paid to just transport kids to and from one school. The drivers still get a
minimum number of hours weather they work that many or not.
***
I can think of another good reason to support a unified schedule: When I was a
kid in Saint Paul, there was a day off for some teacher's conference or
something. I went shopping at a K Mart in Oakdale and got accused of skipping
school because it was a school day there.... I imagine with all the cacophony
of school schedules and hours and the cops cracking down on truancy this is
probably a worse problem now than it was in 1980 or so....
Tony Scallon wrote, "....I am surprised that MPS wants to double the property taxes but does not help to serve over 25% of Minneapolis students in Charter schools. I hope this helps the discussion." MPS wants to double its excess levy. And there is also the regular property tax levy. I recall that in 2003, Board members discussed the idea of getting out the business of operating schools, with the possible exception of schools in the SW quadrant of the city. The vision of then superintendent, David Jennings, of charter schools replacing most of the district operated schools is becoming a reality. If indeed, 25% of Minneapolis students are already in charter schools, and perhaps a majority on the North Side, I am surprised that the charter schools are not already demanding a piece of the property tax action. There are serious equity issues when property tax money collected for the school system is used to the benefit of residents in the SW but not on the North Side. The growth in charter school attendance is, in my opinion, a reflection of the district's failure to create and maintain a uniform system of education, as mandated by Minnesota's constitution. This is a problem Board members have consistently refused to acknowledge and correct. The Board has in recent years tried to explain the sharp drop in student enrollment as being primarily a reflection of falling a birth rate and population shifts. However, the shrinking percentage of the students who reside in Minneapolis and attend district run schools actually accounts for most of the enrollment decline. Although cuts in bus service in the fall of 2002 might explain much of the 10%-plus decline in enrollment between head count days in 2002 and 2003, and an accelerated decline in student enrollment since then, it doesn't explain the growth in charter school enrollment. Board member Lydia Lee's statement about the district providing charter school students with door-to-door bus service as the reason for 40% of charter school enrollment has been exposed as a lie. Only a small percentage of Minneapolis Charter School students get bus service provided by the Minneapolis School District. Since 2001, as a school board candidate, I have made an issue of the revolving door for new teachers. The district administration eventually acknowledged the existence of extraordinarily high teacher turnover rates in its 'poor-performing schools,' but persists in keeping the rates high by firing its probationary teachers each year. Board member Tom Madden asserts that the revolving door is no longer an issue because only 5% of the district's teachers were released from employment, on average, over the past two years, which is consistent with the depth of cuts in teacher positions. However, the average of 195 teachers per year being released from employment over the past two years probably includes nearly all of the teachers employed with the district from less than 3 years, the teachers on probationary status, and it represents closer to 20% of the district's permanent, tenure-track teachers. -Doug Mann, Minneapolis School Board candidate, King Field neighborhood ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
Thank you for your Minneapolis Issues post Tony.
Minneapolis really misses having a City Council member as smart as Tony. In
fact misses several of those old Council Members. Even though we fought over
the Phillips Pool & Gym, and Tony assisted by Sharon and Brian Coyle killed our
neighborhood organization because our winning that battle, I still think Tony
Scallon was far better, smarter, and far more responsive to community residents
than ANY Council Member Minneapolis has had since that time.
Now Tony is doing the same for the Charter School program. Perhaps MPS should
look at hiring someone like Tony as the Superintendent. We certainly have
received very little from those who have held the position and raked in the
dollars for the last twenty or more years. Just like the Country we need to
rebuild the school system from the grassroots up. A lot of Minneapolis teachers
do a great job under trying circumstances, but just like Washington the top is
rotten. And throwing an additional 60 million dollars a year at that rotten top
to waste will not fix the problem.
Robert Lilligren was at our Neighborhood meeting Wednesday night as a "Speaker"
for the school referendum. Touting how ten Council Members and Congressman
Ellison supported taking an additional 60 million dollars a year from already
over burdened taxpayers to put into a failed school system. When will these
folks learn that throwing money into a failed system is not the answer?
The Minneapolis school referendum is so reflective of the "Financial Crises"
that saw Ellison help throw almost a trillion dollars to the criminals who had
raped the American people. Sorry, but in both situations it is political
pandering. I do not mind a one-time fix, but I mind rewarding failure for that
very failure. I mind paying for an inferior product. Before we TAKE any
additional tax dollars from homeowners who are already facing foreclosure and
loss of those homes we need to see a plan for completely revamping the
Minneapolis School system. And I do not mean a "Smaller Class Size".
Folks, (got to stop using that, it sounds like McCain's "Friends") I went to a
school system that was the least funded system in the nation during the peak of
the Baby Boom. There were ALWAYS six rows of nine or ten chairs per class. I am
quite certain there was not a "Masters", Eddy or PhD. in the system. But
EVERYONE learned to read and do math. Even though it was the heart of the old
South during the worst of segregation and discrimination ALL the children
including black children learned these things.
In Minneapolis with all its EdDs and Masters of Education, with incredible
amounts of money thrown at it, graduation of Native children may not even reach
20%, with Black children and poor White children just slightly better. When
will we finally give the Minneapolis Public School system the grade they
deserve? MPS deserve nothing more than "F"! MPS have FAILED Minneapolis
children, and the taxpayers deserve a lot better.
Jordan is correct; with the polar differences between them when Jordan Kushner
and Jim Graham find a rapprochement on an issue then it is something to be
taken note of
Lilligren, Ellison and the rest should be demanding change in the system, NOT
seeking to impoverish even further the people of Minneapolis. I wonder what
effect that 850 billion dollars would have had on education, or energy
independence and renewability that would have stabilized the economic future
for our children. If you waste our limited dollars, without DEMANDING change in
the system, we simply will not have the dollars to do what our people really do
need.
We need change - we need to find responsible leadership for a change.
Jim Graham
"The people are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."
"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt."
- Thomas Jefferson
Doug Mann writes: > There are serious > equity issues when property tax money collected for the school system is used > to the benefit of residents in the SW but not on the North Side. Fact Check: The above statement is false. Property tax money collected for the school system is distributed equally across all schools and across all areas of the city. Source: Please refer to page 60-62 of the University of Minnesota Center for Urban Research report entitled Minneapolis Public Schools and Population Relationships by Mary Bock PhD and Georges Tippens, Oct 2007. Go to: http://www.cura.umn.edu/search/fullRecord.php for a copy of this report. Doug, if you have a data source/reference for the representation of practices you suggest, will you please share it? That would be valuable to the discussion. Thank you
Jim makes valid points about the need for change at the MPS district. And
from my last two years of very close involvement and scrutiny I believe that
change is occurring. As a member of the District Parent Advisory Council.
The Citizens Budget Advisory Committee, the Strategic Advisory Group,
attending most School Board meetings and now as a member of the citizens-led
Steering Committee of the Strong Schools Strong City Referendum campaign, I
have learned that the district faces a new world order.
Public school districts for the past century were the only game in town.
About 1/100 home schooled their kids and another 10/100 sent their kids to
private school. They spent their own money on education because they could
afford to pay the $7,000 to $25,000 to educate their kids because they knew
it was a good investment.
Changes to the marketplace have come to the institution of public education
as sudden and earth shattering. The idea that Charter Schools, Open
Enrollment and Choice is Yours meant that an institution like Minneapolis
Public Schools was not something that the district understood for some time.
After all, words like "marketing" and having to attract students seems to
have been met with resistance by education professionals. Meanwhile, the
school board that we as citizens elected failed to provide the leadership
and foresight to respond to the wake up call of the new world order.
Charter Schools attract students because they go out and market to their
potential customers. Their appeal is seldom academic achievement but rather
about the environment they offer, how they will feel good about being
welcomed and how belong to and have access to the decisions regarding their
children's education. Choice is Yours parents are marketed to thanks to I
wonder how many state dollars that pay for ads on the sides of buses and bus
stops. Students attending Open Enrollment schools may be happier going to
suburban schools, but they often do not reach higher achievement levels.
Many of those who went to Open Enrollment and Charter Schools return to MPS.
I'm not sure if the district or its leadership, including the board and
executive team, have yet accepted the idea of marketing per se. (Consider is
still considered a dirty word by administrators and teachers.) But they have
begin to acknowledge the importance of building stronger relationships with
their consumers. The district for the first time hired a Chief
Communications Officer, ensuring that the person in charge of communicating
with the public was at the decision making table. It's still short of having
a Chief Marketing Officer whose role it would be to represent the needs
wants and desires of the consumer at the executive decision making level.
But the newly appointed CCO is a start in the right direction. My belief is
that just like a business organization, the school district has a number of
constituents. There are the consumers and there are also the investors. As a
city for whom just one of every six households has a child of student age
population, this investor group is much larger than its consumer group. We
as tax payers are investors. And if we see a return on that investment, we
are apt to place our trust and valuable resources there. No question that
the district needs to continue to do a better job at communicating the value
delivered by this investment.
No question that the return on this investment needs to be improved. The
leadership of the district in its State of the Schools presentation last
week acknowledged simply and boldly what those challenges. It knows what it
must accomplish, as delineated in its Strategic Plan and to me for one of
the very first times has created a vivid focus on accomplishing those
objectives. Those objectives are very specific by the populations that need
to be addressed and the incremental metrics to measure their objectives.
Finally, let's be very clear about the financial situation the district is
faces. School districts depend upon their funding from the state. Lat year,
73 percent of the school's funds came from state funding. What the state
does or does not do in supporting school districts has the most impactful
and far-reaching affects on school districts than any other source of
revenue. So while Minneapolis ranks second lowest among all the surrounding
school districts in the level of local investment in its schools and asks
through this referendum to raise itself to the middle of the pack among the
surround school districts, it is still the state funds that drive much of
the discussion. State funding, according to the Association of Metropolitan
School Districts, has not kept pace with inflation. In fact, the AMSD
reports that for the past 17 years, state funding has grown at a rate that
has been less than half of the rate of inflation. Add on top of that federal
and state mandates that go un-funded or under-funded, and the MPS, just like
most all school districts in the state fall further and further behind in
their ability to support essential operations. The AMSD go on to report that
today more than 90 percent of school districts in the state rely on local
property tax "excess" levies to fund their operations. These are not bonds
or capital levies. These are operational levies. The shift has been sudden
and dramatic. In 1990, only about half of all school district required local
levies to support their operations.
I share the objective to see we have leaders -- on our school board, in our
superintendent and his team, in our schools and in our classrooms. Although
my two kids attended and have graduated from K-12, I will continue to be
involved and push for meeting the challenges and improving the performance
of MPS schools.
I heard a snippet of a discussion on Channel 2 last week about public schools
in Minneapolis. The speaker said that kids only go to school 180 days a year
for about six hours a day. This does not seem like enough to do the job since
kids have to learn far more than kids did when I went to school back in the
stone age.
Can someone talk about this issue?
My first grader is in school from 8:40 until 2:55 a total of 6 hours and 15
minutes. I was a bit shocked when he started kindergarten and saw the calendar
and the 30 days that they AREN'T in school. 9 of those days off are "Record
Keeping Days" or "State Fall Professional Day" or "District Professional
Development Days" or "Teacher Flex Duty Days", whatever those are. Irather
wishstaff could professionally develop during their summers off. The
traditional Easter/Spring break is 6 days and the Christmas/Winter Recess is 7.
Throw in a handful of "federal" holidays (except Veterans' Day for some odd
reason) and it's 30 days. A full month they could be hitting the books, or
theblackboards. It makes it hard for a solitary provider like myself to arrange
child care on the days he's out of school and I have toto work.I have one in
preschool all dayand the first grader goes to the Mpls Park Rec-plus program
after school until I'm off. They have
sign-up sheets for field trips at the Rec-Center for most of the school
release days, but they need 12 kids signed up to keep the place open on and
there's never 12 signed up. Plus if you're not a monthly attendee there's a fee
for the field trip and they usually don't last a full day so it's more of a
"keep the kids out of your hair" for a few hours rather than a full day option
so you can report to work.
As a child in Missouri there was a school district that went to school for 6
weeks and then was off for 3, then 6 and 3 for an all year approach. I often
wondered how that would work.But then in Missouri we usually started school the
third week in August and went through the middle of June, too.
Just a thought.
Jill Laxen, Cleveland
Doug Mann writes: >There are serious >equity issues when property tax money collected for the school system is used >to the benefit of residents in the SW but not on the North Side. Steve Kotvis writes, Fact Check: The above statement is false. Property tax money collected for the school system is distributed equally across all schools and across all areas of the city. Source: Please refer to page 60-62 of the University of Minnesota Center for Urban Research report entitled Minneapolis Public Schools and Population Relationships by Mary Bock PhD and Georges Tippens, Oct 2007. Doug Mann responds, The report cited by Steve above does not support his contention that property tax money collected for the school district equally across all schools and across all areas of the city. Page 60-62 consists of bar graphs that show a school-by-school breakdown of per-pupil spending for the Minneapolis Public Schools from 4 sources: the general fund, compensatory, title 1, and referendum money. And, the final section of the report begins on page 66, as follows: "In 2004-05, across 53 MPS schools [the district's traditional, comprehensive K-12 schools], there was a significant disparity in per-pupil spending of General Fund dollars on teacher salaries. Low spending was correlated with higher representation of disadvantaged student groups, and visa-versa..." The report goes on to discuss problem of an inequitable distribution of General Fund dollars spent on teacher salaries! A solution proposed in the report is to reassign teachers so that all of the schools have a similar mix of teachers in the high, middle and low end of the salary range. That's not a very good idea, in my opinion. I think it would be to better to end practices that create a revolving door for new teachers, and to take additional steps that will make teaching less unattractive in schools where teacher turnover is currently high. As for the expenditure of funds to K-12 students across the city. The report cited by Steve doesn't address the fact that a much higher percentage of K-12 students residing in SW Minneapolis attend traditional, district-run schools than is the case for students who live on the North Side, and that a higher percentage of the North Side students attend charter schools. A large part of the revenue coming into the district from property taxes pays for the operation of the schools that are owned and operated directly by the district, and not to the charter schools. It's not money that follows Minneapolis kids where-ever they go, like the state's general school aid, and federal title one and state compensatory funds. -Doug Mann, Minneapolis School Board candidate, King Field neighborhood ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
> Doug Mann writes:
>
> >There are serious
> >equity issues when property tax money collected for the school system is
> used
> >to the benefit of residents in the SW but not on the North Side.
>
> Steve Kotvis writes,
>
> Fact Check: The above statement is false. Property tax money collected for
> the school system is distributed equally across all schools and across all
> areas of the city.
>
Anissa:
I would argue with how to define 'distributed equally' even if it could be
said to be technically accurate, but it is absolutely an equity issue when
there is as vast a disparity in the choices available to families within the
different segments of the city, and no where is it more prounounced than
between North and SW. There's kids all over the North side, our
neighborhoods skew very young demographically, but all the families I know
that I interact with regularly at community events and the like send their
kids to private, charter or suburban schools. So many families in fact that
you could fill (at least) a whole school with them, if one was available
that began to approach to offerings of the standard fare in SW.
I deeply believe in and support public education, but I cannot sacrifice my
daughter over my convictions, and we had to make our choices as a family
based on what will enable her to succeed. Give us an MPS choice that can do
that, and she'll be back. One of the problems at this point is there are
plenty of families who want to return like us if given viable options, but
it is kind of a circular thing. How do you bring the kids back without
some different options, but how do you offer different options without the
kids? Honestly, if I saw the commitment to change the options for North
Side families, I would be heartened and fully supportive, but I still at
this point couldn't put the yoke of blazing a new trail on my 11-year old.
It's got to be there first. We have three more years before my youngest
starts school, and it is one of my greatest hopes (seriously) that we can
find an MPS school for her. You can claim to have equal inputs, but you
have to start at least playing in the same ball park when it comes to equity
of results and end products.
Anissa Hollingshead
Hawthorne
List Members,
I agree with Anissa and Doug regarding the equity. When it comes to the
referendum issue, it really gets me that you will see a majority of the photos
used on the mailing are of ethnic children. However, when it comes to the
fiscal division later, the schools the ethnic children attend seem
to not be on par with southwest area schools.
There should never have been, at any point in MPS history, a sacrifice made to
pay big salaries to superintendents (among other things), and not buy enough
books, or have mandated EQUAL curricula in EVERY school. This was allowed to
happen, and it is simply despicable and unacceptable. If
the referendum passes, the first thing that needs to happen is that they get
the curricula updated at all the schools that are using the lesser college
bound tracks, instituting the programs needed to make that happen, and get the
books and other materials that all schools students need DAILY to keep up in
school.
Our country has been in crisis mode long before now, and this financial
bailout, coupled with Bush's unholy and unethical war, and McCain/Palin pushing
fear and hate-mongering of their more than worthy opponent, are
simply much larger icebergs slamming into the already leaking Titanic. I for
one can't swim to well, and I absolutely hate the cold, but my instincts are to
automatically put our children in the boats first and save as many as we can.
We need to be about the humane job of raising girls and boys who can compete
globally as women and men. We love quoting how much the "future belongs to our
children." Well, the future is NOW, and it ain't pretty, nor is it anything
that our children would have wanted. We must do better and we must do it now.
If we want transparency in government, at any level, we must began looking
through, and opening the doors of our own hidden prejudices and agendas.
Pamela Taylor
(On the Soapbox)
CARAG
Doug Mann writes:
There are serious
equity issues when property tax money collected for the school system is
used to the benefit of residents in the SW but not on the North Side.
Steve Kotvis writes,
Fact Check: The above statement is false. Property tax money collected
for the school system is distributed equally across all schools and
across all areas of the city.
Anissa:
I would argue with how to define 'distributed equally' even if it could
be said to be technically accurate, but it is absolutely an equity issue
when there is as vast a disparity in the choices available to families
within the different segments of the city, and no where is it more
prounounced than between North and SW. There's kids all over the North
side, our neighborhoods skew very young demographically, but all the
families I know that I interact with regularly at community events and
the like send their kids to private, charter or suburban schools. So
many families in fact that you could fill (at least) a whole school with
them, if one was available that began to approach to offerings of the
standard fare in SW.
Doug and all,
Sorry for not being able to respond sooner. Was out of town for the weekend.
Doug, given the previous discussion about the referendum, I believe I
narrowly interpreted your statement of property taxes. I originally heard
property taxes equals voter approved referendum. I am sorry for
misunderstanding. While the CURA report confirms that the referendum
dollars were distributed equally by school on a per pupil basis, this does
not address the whole picture.
And please understand, I brought CURA report into this discussion because it
does raise issues of inequities that many of us are concerned about. As a
member of the MPS Citizens Budget Advisory Committee, we had a discussion
about the issue of funds following children several months ago. For example,
we talked about a "what if" scenario that provided a calculation of what if
the dollars literally followed each child to their schools. A counter
example to the funding issues with Comp Ed and teacher salaries was a like
one looking at federally allocated Title 1 funds. For example, schools like
Washburn, South and Southwest high schools have 600, 700+ and almost 400
students who as individuals would qualify for Title 1 funding do not receive
any Title 1 funding because they do not have a high enough concentration of
children in need. Title 1 funds are distributed to schools with highest
concentrations of children in need. I only bring this up because school
funding is complicated and taking just one thread of funding and pointing to
it as a culprit is often missing the whole picture.
As for what schools students attend by area of the city, I analyzed this
issue last year and concur that fewest charter schools are located in the
southwest quadrant of the city. The emergence of charter schools has been
most robust in the northwest and southeast quadrants and downtown. The
extent to which district resources are distributed to areas of the city is
driven by the number of students attending schools in that location.
If you wanted to identify the area of the city that gets the least resources
from school funding in this way, you'd have to say it is the northeast
quadrant, where enrollment levels are by far the very lowest of all
quadrants. Not isn't the demographic factor of fewer households with
children working against that quadrant, but so are the strengths of the
suburban districts that are effectively attracting a large share of the
children growing up in that area of the city leaving our district.
I am still waiting for an answer to the use of referendum dollars for
alternative schools. Alternative schools currently do not receive any property
tax referendum or building levy dollars. Has any committee or the MPS Citizens
Budget Advisory Committee studied these program dollars. If I remember
correctly, the McKenzie report was not positive towards alternative programs.
I believe we as taxpayers deserve an answer. The most needy students should
share in the referendum. The alternative students are counted as part of the
Minneapolis Public Schools.
Tony Scallon
Longfellow
To begin Tony, I find the posturing of your question to be a bit ingenuous.
This Forum is not a place where we can demand answers of others. It is
rather a gathering place where people come and go and have conversations
about topics of common interest. There is no accountability or
responsibility to attend this place of conversation much less respond.
That is, I think if you were actually serious about getting an answer about
the issue it would not be done in such a grandstanding way. You might
actually do the work to go reach out and request an answer in a more
official or formal or convicted way.
That being said, I took some time of my own to seek out some answers to your
questions because I found the questions of interest and because I have taken
the last couple of years to develop relationships with school officials that
permits me to not only know who to ask but to have a positive relationship
with these people in a way that permits me to ask these questions. Tonight,
I was able to ask these questions following the attendance of the school
board meeting.
I believe your first question, which you seem to answer in your second
sentence, is confirmed. Referendum dollars do not go to contract alternative
schools. According to my conversation tonight with Margaret Westin, Chief
Counsel of the Minneapolis school district, the state law establishes the
funding methods for contract alternative schools. It states that 95 percent
of the state per capita education funds are passed through the district to
the contract alternative school. Five percent is retained by the school
district for administrative funds and are used to cover state oversight and
reporting requirements.
Contract alternative schools are operated as 501(c)3 nonprofit
organizations. While these organizations may raise funds from outside
sources to help supplement their operations, state law prohibits the
Minneapolis Public School district from making donations/non-profit
contribution to 501(c)3 organizations.
So you may wish that some of the referendum funds be allocated to a contract
alternative school, they are prohibited to do so according to state law. If
you have a beef with that, it seems it should be taken up with the state
legislature, and not with the Minneapolis Public School district which is
following this state law.
I hope this puts this argument to rest.
Steve, Thanks for bringing the CURA report into this discussion. The big disparities in teacher pay noted in the CURA report reflect differences in length of employment with the district between schools which strongly correlates with the percentage of white, non-Hispanic students in a school. Conversely, the higher the concentration of nonwhite and Hispanic students, the higher the concentration of new and low seniority teachers. Minnesota has a Desegregation Rule which states that 'racially identifiable schools' (where the representation of nonwhite and Hispanic students is more than 20% above the district average for grade levels served) must have educational inputs that are roughly equal to the rest of a district's schools. Educational inputs that must be monitored include average levels of teacher classroom experience, though disparities in this area alone would not put the district out of compliance with the Desegregation Rule. However, practices which create a revolving door for new teachers are, in my opinion, a perfect example of 'intentional, racial discrimination' as defined by the Desegregation Rule, due to the disparate impact of these practices on racially identifiable schools and students of color. The district's efforts to achieve roughly equal, per-pupil expenditures to schools across the district is not the same thing as equalizing "educational inputs," as the term is used in Minnesota's Desegregation Rule. "Dollars" are not the same thing as "educational inputs." It is possible to have roughly equal, per-pupil expenditures and huge disparities in educational inputs at the same time. The district has been getting a lot of money for a very long time to level the playing field in the schools, but hasn't got the job done. The 'covenant' between the school board and a group of African Americans recently approved by the board calls for the designation of some schools where African American students are greatly over-represented as model schools. There are two conditions which makes a school a 'model school,' as defined by the agreement: A stable teaching staff (low teacher turnover rates) and the use of best practices by the teachers. Implementation of this agreement, we are told, is contingent on the district getting more money for this purpose. However, in my opinion, the district already gets a lot of money that should be used to obtain low teacher turnover rates in all of the district's schools, not just the district's model white schools. And best practices should also be used in all schools. The charts on pages 60-62 of the CURA report show the sum of per pupil expenditures from referenda, general fund, title 1 and compensatory. There are variances from site to site of as much as 10% above and below the average. And the average expenditure represents less than two-thirds of the district's main operating fund. I assume that this analysis considered only expenditures for services provided on-site for regular Ed programs. Given that the title 1 and compensatory money should follow low-income students, one might expect significantly higher per-pupil spending in high poverty areas, and low per-pupil spending in low-poverty areas, but that is not the case. -Doug Mann, Minneapolis School Board candidate, King Field neighborhood ************** New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
Thank you, Steve, for bringing the facts that you did to the
discussion. It helps a lot.
I don't think you're lecture to Tony is appropriate, though. I think
Tony is well with in his rights as a citizen of this community to ask
whatever he wants to ask of any elected official and their staffs. I
think this forum is a great place to ask those public questions. If
elected officials and their staffs choose not to participate and hide
behind the tables in their official meeting rooms and speak through
others, that's on them.
Dan McGuire
Ericsson
Thanks Dan, I thought I politely but firmly brought up the issue. First, on
the topic, many charter schools and the Private Alternative Schools do use the
MTC busses to transport their students. Many of our students come from
different parts of the city and this is a very efficient way to provide
service. Minneapolis Public Schools (MPS) does provide the transportation
costs for alternative private contract schools. Charter Schools have to choose
between receiving the aid themselves or having Minneapolis transport them.
Minneapolis changed the times charter schools could start to after 10:00 AM
forcing many charters to leave. By the way, Minneapolis is required to bus all
private and parochial schools also.
Mr. Kolvis is correct. As a charter school leader, some of my efforts to work
with administrative staff and parent advisory groups have been rebuffed. I did
suggest in private that the City Wide Budget Advisory Committee meet with
Charter Advocates. I was rebuked by the Chair of the Committee and a school
board member. Joe Nathan has also requested such meetings with different
groups and been ignored.
Mr. Kolvis, I am a long time supporter of alternatives and choice schools.
Minneapolis Public Schools has some of the best choice programs in the country.
MPS has long been a supporter of the Private Alternative Contract Schools and
was instrumental in the founding of this creative system. I do worry the
McKenzie report may not support the good works these programs do.
On the Direct Issue, I know the funding device for Private Contract Schools.
Minneapolis however can use its resources to educate the students. Minneapolis
provides special education for the students despite the Contract School being a
501C-3. I cannot believe creative minds cannot find a way to support them.
There is a philosophical divide here. I see Minneapolis Public Schools as more
than the students who attend the MPS directly run schools. We as property tax
payers should support all publicly funded schools. I have found many MPS
advocates and referendum supporters see the other public alternative and
charter schools as simply competitors.
I have always supported MPS referendums. I thought we could debate on this
forum the issues that make me concerned. I believe the Private Contract
Schools should be supported.
Tony Scallon
Longfellow