Silencing citizens at the Public Health, Environment, Civil Rights, and Engagement Committee meeting

Today I witnessed an example of how government that's supposed to be the
closest to the people should not operate.

The City Council's Public Health, Environment, Civil Rights, and Engagement
Committee meeting included a public hearing on the reappointment of Velma
Korbel as the Director of the Department of Civil Rights. After about a dozen
people testified, Committee Chair Phillipe Cunningham asked some questions of
Office of Police Conduct Review Director Imani Jaafar. (The OPCR is within the
Civil Rights Department.)

Ms. Jaafar began her answer with a statement that I knew was factually wrong.
So I wrote out a question that I hoped Committee member Cam Gordon would ask
her, brought my note up to the clerk's desk, and asked that it be passed to Mr.
Gordon. Two people from the City Clerk's Office, including City Clerk Casey
Carl, were on the dais. Mr. Carl informed me they didn't have to deliver such
notes. In fact, he said, that would violate Council rules. I said I'd bring it
up to CM Gordon from the front of the dais myself then, and he said that would
not be allowed either.

The Committee was about to vote, and their votes may have been influenced by
what I knew was inaccurate information -- provably inaccurate information, at
least according to what the City Attorney had told the Civilian Review
Authority Board in April 2012. I had thought the least disruptive way to make
sure the Committee members received correct information before casting their
votes was by having one of them ask a question of Ms. Jaafar. That option was
foreclosed.

So several minutes later, when Mr. Cunningham restated the false information, I
shouted out my comment.

After the meeting, Mr. Carl provided me with a copy of the Council rules,
specifically citing Rule III, Sections 11 and 12 as prohibiting the City Clerk
from passing on to Council members notes given to them by citizens. The rules
say nothing of the sort. They don't even mention the passing on of citizens'
notes.

This is no way for city government to operate. I'm embarrassed, not for
shouting out the correct information, but for having a council whose clerk
thinks the council's supposed procedures should be followed, even if those
supposed procedures preclude the members from getting accurate information
before they take a vote.

Chuck Turchick
Phillips

Unless I am missing something, it appears that the passing of notes is
permissible. Wonder why there was resistance. This is Rule III and Section 11
of the City Council Rules:

SECTION 11. Attendance upon the dais. While the City Council is in session,
only the following persons shall be admitted within the bar and upon the dais:

* The Council President and Members of the City Council;

* The Mayor, whenever the Mayor is in attendance for a meeting or portion of a
meeting;

* The City Clerk and staff from the Clerk’s Office; and

* The City Attorney and staff from the City Attorney’s Office.

Aides, assistants, and other staff of the individual Council Members and of the
Mayor are granted access to the dais to provide assistance, relay messages,
deliver papers or messages, and similar purposes. The Council President, on
behalf of the City Council, and without objection from any Member, may invite
other persons within the bar and upon the dais for specific, limited purposes,
such as the presentation of special honors
or recognitions.

When citizens can not address, by voice or note, council members, is this not a
feature of dictatorships. When we vote are we not accenting to being
controlled. Then do we not exist for the benefit of government. This needs more
publicity than this forum provides.

Sent from iPad
John Ferman
Minneapolis, MN

My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland and as a result have a
severe morale fibre deficiency, so I should not be expected to save the world."

> On Apr 17, 2018, at 10:10 AM, Brian Stricherz <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Unless I am missing something, it appears that the passing of notes is
permissible. Wonder why there was resistance. This is Rule III and Section 11
of the City Council Rules:
>

Both the chair of the committee, Council Member Cunningham, and City Clerk
Casey Carl were sent via email the initial post in this chain nine minutes
after it was posted. No comment from either of them yet.

An hour and a half later, an email was sent to the entire City Council, asking
them if they interpret the rules cited by Mr. Carl in the same manner he does.
So far, one Council member, Cam Gordon, has responded to that email, saying he
does not interpret those rules as prohibiting the clerk from passing notes from
citizens on to committee members during the meeting.

Chuck Turchick
Phillips

If this is as John suggests, it is a dictatorship of the status quo culture
(where the operating rules for staff are not written down) in city hall I
described in Emilie’s thread on lawsuits or, since staff essentially work under
the mayor in a complicated hierarchy, it is Mayor Frey’s doing.

I had a recent exchange on the nature of reality with someone in another forum,
nutshell: I try to live in a very big, perhaps even objective reality, and his
is very limited.

Conclusion: we must expand everyone’s reality as broadly as possible so that
perspectives can align from personal or partisan to something more universal or
at least global.

Perhaps city hall would be a good place to start.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 17, 2018, at 12:22 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> When citizens can not address, by voice or note, council members, is this not
a feature of dictatorships. When we vote are we not accenting to being
controlled. Then do we not exist for the benefit of government. This needs more
publicity than this forum provides.

The very insular nature of this Council is looking way too much like that of
the last.
Where decisions have been made long before testifiers have had their say...All
too often...no matter the extent of the objections , the quality of their
"proofs", or the numbers coming out to testify....We the people seem to be
getting short shrift from those whom we elected.
Have we been duped?
And I couldn't agree more Bill Kahn.This needs much more publicity than the
forum provides. We need the light of day shining into those City Council
chambers!
Carin PetersonSheridan

Powered by Cricket Wireless.

Rest of post

-------- Original message --------
From: Bill Kahn <<email obscured>>
Date: 04/17/2018 4:43 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: Minneapolis Issues Forum <mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Silencing citizens at the Public Health, Environment, Civil
Rights, and Engagement Committee meeting

If this is as John suggests, it is a dictatorship of the status quo culture
(where the operating rules for staff are not written down) in city hall I
described in Emilie’s thread on lawsuits or, since staff essentially work under
the mayor in a complicated hierarchy, it is Mayor Frey’s doing.

I had a recent exchange on the nature of reality with someone in another forum,
nutshell: I try to live in a very big, perhaps even objective reality, and his
is very limited.

Conclusion: we must expand everyone’s reality as broadly as possible so that
perspectives can align from personal or partisan to something more universal or
at least global.

Perhaps city hall would be a good place to start.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 17, 2018, at 12:22 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> When citizens can not address, by voice or note, council members, is this not
a feature of dictatorships. When we vote are we not accenting to being
controlled. Then do we not exist for the benefit of government. This needs more
publicity than this forum provides.

Bill Kahn
PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn

1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
   If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
   <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.

2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.

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I also have no problem with people coming right up and handing me a note while
in the chambers at the dias. Next time Chuck just go stand be where mayor sits
and wave to me and I will come and grab the note.

The whole thing was kind of ridiculous but I suspect everyone had good
intentions.

Sent on my Samsung Galaxy S7.

Rest of post

There are the rules of government in black and white that the "governed and
the governing body" are to follow that are fine and democratic, but these
are adhered to by the governing body as they choose. In a real democracy,
awareness and application of these rules must be paramount for all those
who come together for official business so that legal and binding results
are reached. There is a problem in Minneapolis City Hall. There is no
spirit of democracy. It's all "One Minneapolis". Democracy is about
diversity, not a monolith made up of overpaid bureaucrats.

It has probably always been this way but breaches of ethical and legal
behavior are either becoming more blatant or I am becoming an old crank, or
I wasn't paying attention before, or all of the above. A recent
unbelievable example of this was the sneaky (provably) maneuver of City
Council holding a meeting of which the public was not informed and giving
themselves a $10,000 per year raise. This money came out of items already
budgeted for. Not only do they give themselves a hefty raise but they take
from sources that are already hurting for money. This makes the increasing
imperious behavior of too many government officials hard to bear.

I was there yesterday at the very disappointing hearing for Velma Korbel,
and there seemed to be no particular desire on the part of the CM's to hear
more from their constituents beyond a mild suggestion by Cam Gordon and
Andrea Jenkins. In the end, all voted to move ahead with a re-nomination of
Velma Korbel. Mayor Frey worried about putting Ms Korbel through any more
trauma from hearing testimony, some of which came from people who have been
significantly harmed by her policies. Unfortunately, more harm will come to
Minneapolitans and to visitors to our city under the current system of
police "accountability".

Janet Nye
Phillips

Rest of post

Cam Gordon wrote:

"I also have no problem with people coming right up and handing me a note while
in the chambers at the dias. Next time Chuck just go stand be where mayor sits
and wave to me and I will come and grab the note.

"The whole thing was kind of ridiculous but I suspect everyone had good
intentions."

But we don't know, of course, if that same waving technique will work if we
have an urgent message for any other Council member.

The question is not one of good intentions, but of whether the Council's rules
actually do prohibit the clerk from passing on a citizen's message to a
committee member. If they don't, the Council should so inform the City Clerk.

Brian Stricherz posted one of the two cited rules above. Here are both of them.
In the copy of the rules given to me by City Clerk Casey Carl, he highlighted
the titles of Sections 11 and 12, as well as A(1), A(2), and B in Section 12:

SECTION 11. Attendance upon the dais. While the City Council is in session,
only the following persons shall be admitted within the bar and upon the dais:

§ The Council President and Members of the City Council;

§ The Mayor, whenever the Mayor is in attendance for a meeting or portion of a
meeting;

§ The City Clerk and staff from the Clerk’s Office; and

§ The City Attorney and staff from the City Attorney’s Office.

Aides, assistants, and other staff of individual Council Members and of the
Mayor are granted access to the dais to provide assistance, relay messages,
deliver papers or messages, and similar purposes. The Council President, on
behalf of the City Council, and without objection from any Member, may invite
other persons within the bar and upon the dais for specific, limited purposes,
such as the presentation of special honors or recognitions.

SECTION 12. Public Attendance and Participation. To ensure meetings are
conducted in a professional and courteous manner which enables the orderly
conduct of business, all persons in attendance or who participate in such
meetings shall conduct themselves in a manner that does not interfere with the
ability of others to observe and, when allowed, to participate without
disruption or fear of intimidation.

A. Decorum. Persons who attend meetings must avoid conduct that
disrupts, interferes with, or disturbs the orderly conduct of the meeting or
the ability of other attendees to observe and participate as appropriate. To
that end, persons who attend meetings are subject to the following:

(1) Members of the public may only speak during meetings when allowed
under Council Rules and only after being recognized by the presiding officer.
The presiding officer may establish time limits for the acceptance of public
comments or testimony.

(2) Public comments or testimony must be addressed to the presiding
officer and not to other Council Members, staff, or others in attendance.

(3) All elected officials shall be referred to by their proper title
and surname.

(4) Public comments should avoid personal accusations, profanity, or
other improper content for a public meeting.

(5) Intimidating behaviors, threats of hostility, or actual violence
are disallowed.

(6) Audible demonstrations of approval or disapproval should be
avoided, including conduct that may be intimidating or threatening to others.

(7) Holding, displaying, or placing banners, signs, objects, or other
materials in any way that endangers others, prevents the free flow of
individuals within the chamber, or obstructs or prevents the viewing of the
meeting by others is not allowed.

B. The presiding officer shall request any person(s) who disrupt,
interfere with or disturb the orderly conduct of a meeting to cease the conduct
and, as necessary, shall issue an oral warning to the individual(s) found to be
in violation. If the individual(s) persists in disrupting, interfering with, or
disturbing the meeting, the presiding officer may have the individual(s)
removed or, under appropriate circumstances, temporarily clear the gallery. If
for any reason the presiding officer fails to take such action, a majority vote
may be substituted for action by the presiding officer to maintain order and
decorum over the proceedings.

Chuck Turchick
Phillips

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Silencing citizens at the Public Health, Environment, Civil Rights, and Engagement Committee meeting

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