Barry,
I have taken it upon myself to educate myself as to your causes and your
motivations and I will agree that ATV use has the potential to do some real
damage to protected lands. What you fail to mention, however, is that the DNR
proposed legislation to restrict ATV use and it was shot down. Furthermore,
they are working on providing a model for responsible ATV use in Finland State
Forest to prove to the legislator that responsible trail building can reduce
irresponsible ATV use. I fail to see with the vast resources they are
responsible for protecting (the second largest collection of state forests)
what you would propose they do to maintain this? Ban ATVβs statewide? Put DNR
patrol officers on horseback wandering the vast forests of Minnesota, shooting
four-wheeler operators on site?
I donβt complain about something unless I have a plan to fix it, so sure, I
would like to see all of the instances you have of the DNR caving to corporate
interest. That will be great. Get me a list of your complaints against them and
I will ignore the good work that they do if you can tell me how to fix it. The
problem with the internet and in specific forums of this nature, is that they
provide a platform to complain to people who enjoy railing against the evils of
the system. Itβs all over the place in here. Activists are by their very nature
predisposed to yell loud enough that someone will listen.
What I will tell you is that nothing is accomplished by claiming that the DNR
is a corrupt organization led by incompetent commissioners out to sell our
public lands to the lowest bidder. This does not help anything. First and
foremost I do not believe it. 90% industry 10% protecting resources? Come on
now Barry. I like making up figures as much as the next man, but if that was
the case then we would be living in New Jersey.
There is a disease in America that is corporate greed and neglect, of that we
can all agree. I will concede that my interactions with the DNR have been both
as a citizen and a friend. When I drive down the road and see a protected
forest itβs the DNR who keeps watch over it. When I go to Bemidji State Park
they are the ones who maintain it. Provide education to our youth. I see a lot
of people on the internet screaming about privatizing our lands and handing our
clean waters into the hands of corporations, and Iβm not ignorant to that. So
how do we fix it Barry?
I saw the Jack Pine Coalitions write up in MPR. But even that article admitted
that the DNR is actively pursuing legislation to restrict ATV access. They
were making headway until another environmental group sued them and a county
demanded that any sanctioned trail first have an environmental study conducted.
This is not fixing the problem. So what is the answer? You jumped in the thread
without reading what I was talking to Alan about, and that was the idea that
like minded individuals band together to purchase and protect these lands. The
DNR has grants available for just that thing. Is that the answer? If the DNR is
too wildly incompetent to protect our forests then surely the Jack Pine
Coalition will?
All this environmental factionalizing is getting nowhere fast. We all agree
that we need to protect our forest. We all agree that we want clean water and
air. Or maybe itβs just 90% of us who want it. The other 10% is industry? So
whatβs the plan Barry? Whatβs the solution? Because thatβs is the real function
of an e-democracy. Itβs taking the individual ideas and plans of passionate
individuals and rallying them around an idea and then bringing that idea to
existence. A bunch of curmudgeons complaining about this and that wonβt get us
anywhere but here. Pissed off in front of our computers.
I will close with my modest suggestions for the future. First off, I think
that this subject needs itβs own thread. The original question was about the
viability of renewable resources in our area. I think thatβs dead. I donβt
think peat is it. Jeffβs original question was about the viability about wind
solar and geothermal power, and it deserves the attention. If there are really
problems with the DNR then letβs get them out in the open and solve them. There
is no problem so large that it cannot be solved. If the commissioner is truly
incompetent then maybe youβd like his job Barry? I would never say that someone
is doing a lousy job if I couldnβt do it better. In any case. Fight the good
fight. Iβll see you in the bright new future.
Regards,
Jeremiah
Barry,
I have taken it upon myself to educate myself as to your causes and your
motivations and I will agree that ATV use has the potential to do some real
damage to protected lands. What you fail to mention, however, is that the DNR
proposed legislation to restrict ATV use and it was shot down. Furthermore,
they are working on providing a model for responsible ATV use in Finland State
Forest to prove to the legislator that responsible trail building can reduce
irresponsible ATV use. I fail to see with the vast resources they are
responsible for protecting (the second largest collection of state forests)
what you would propose they do to maintain this? Ban ATVβs statewide? Put DNR
patrol officers on horseback wandering the vast forests of Minnesota, shooting
four-wheeler operators on site?
I donβt complain about something unless I have a plan to fix it, so sure, I
would like to see all of the instances you have of the DNR caving to corporate
interest. That will be great. Get me a list of your complaints against them and
I will ignore the good work that they do if you can tell me how to fix it. The
problem with the internet and in specific forums of this nature, is that they
provide a platform to complain to people who enjoy railing against the evils of
the system. Itβs all over the place in here. Activists are by their very nature
predisposed to yell loud enough that someone will listen.
What I will tell you is that nothing is accomplished by claiming that the DNR
is a corrupt organization led by incompetent commissioners out to sell our
public lands to the lowest bidder. This does not help anything. First and
foremost I do not believe it. 90% industry 10% protecting resources? Come on
now Barry. I like making up figures as much as the next man, but if that was
the case then we would be living in New Jersey.
There is a disease in America that is corporate greed and neglect, of that we
can all agree. I will concede that my interactions with the DNR have been both
as a citizen and a friend. When I drive down the road and see a protected
forest itβs the DNR who keeps watch over it. When I go to Bemidji State Park
they are the ones who maintain it. Provide education to our youth. I see a lot
of people on the internet screaming about privatizing our lands and handing our
clean waters into the hands of corporations, and Iβm not ignorant to that. So
how do we fix it Barry?
I saw the Jack Pine Coalitions write up in MPR. But even that article admitted
that the DNR is actively pursuing legislation to restrict ATV access. They
were making headway until another environmental group sued them and a county
demanded that any sanctioned trail first have an environmental study conducted.
This is not fixing the problem. So what is the answer? You jumped in the thread
without reading what I was talking to Alan about, and that was the idea that
like minded individuals band together to purchase and protect these lands. The
DNR has grants available for just that thing. Is that the answer? If the DNR is
too wildly incompetent to protect our forests then surely the Jack Pine
Coalition will?
All this environmental factionalizing is getting nowhere fast. We all agree
that we need to protect our forest. We all agree that we want clean water and
air. Or maybe itβs just 90% of us who want it. The other 10% is industry? So
whatβs the plan Barry? Whatβs the solution? Because thatβs is the real function
of an e-democracy. Itβs taking the individual ideas and plans of passionate
individuals and rallying them around an idea and then bringing that idea to
existence. A bunch of curmudgeons complaining about this and that wonβt get us
anywhere but here. Pissed off in front of our computers.
I will close with my modest suggestions for the future. First off, I think
that this subject needs itβs own thread. The original question was about the
viability of renewable resources in our area. I think thatβs dead. I donβt
think peat is it. Jeffβs original question was about the viability about wind
solar and geothermal power, and it deserves the attention. If there are really
problems with the DNR then letβs get them out in the open and solve them. There
is no problem so large that it cannot be solved. If the commissioner is truly
incompetent then maybe youβd like his job Barry? I would never say that someone
is doing a lousy job if I couldnβt do it better. In any case. Fight the good
fight. Iβll see you in the bright new future.
Regards,
Jeremiah