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Did anyone else wonder if Martin Sabos Commentary in last weeks Star Tribune, (Staying the course serves no one, Mr. Bush, February 2, 2006, http://www.startribune.com/562/story/219995.html) could be somehow related to this mornings announcement by Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer that hes running against Sabo for the 5th district seat? Nelson-Pallmeyer (www.backjack2006.org) is running as a progressive critical of the mainstream Democratic support for (or at least acceptance of) the Iraq occupation. Its likely to be a popular platform in left-leaning Minneapolis. Sabo may not be running scared yet, but his commentary makes me think hes at least paying attention.
http://lloydletta.blogspot.com/2006/02/stadium-boondoggle-supporters-worried.html Wednesday, February 22, 2006 Stadium Boondoggle Supporters Worried "Twinskid" from <http://www.twinkietown.com/story/2006/2/13/16169/6474>here. "Spycake, Drop you Plan - Organize this Group! With all due respect spycake, I submit that you are wasting our time and yours by offering a new alternative stadium plan. If, as you suggest, there are three groups on the ballpark issue, then it really does not matter what the "plan" turns out to be. For what it is worth the current Hennepin County plan is the plan. Unless you are a Hennepin County Commission or a member of the legislature I doubt if anyone is seriously going to take your advice at this late date. The stadium issue will swing on political support. In order to get a positive vote our elected officials need to know that they have political support for their decision. They will not stick their necks out for the Twins without political cover. Mike Opat of Hennepin County is providing the political cover for the legislature. The problem is that the Minneapolis Mayor, City Council and Minneapolis legislators appear to be dead set against having a stadium in downtown Minneapolis. Why they would not support the construction of a $400 to $500 million construction project in Minneapolis is beyond my understanding. I believe if just a few Minneapolis "public servants" were to get on board with the stadium it would be much easier to get the legislature and Governor on board. Respectfully, I suggest that forget proposing your plan and work on getting us organized on affecting the outcome of the debate with special focus on Minneapolis politicians. Good Luck! by TwinsKid on Tue Feb 14, 2006 at 02:10:06 PM EST Take a look at the area around the current Dome. The Dome didn't improve the livability of the area. Now the Minneapolis downtown has lots of residents, and they might not see the stadium as adding to the livability of their area. I'll be posting this one on the Minneapolis Issues list. Minneapolis City Council Members should get called. I'll be calling Don Samuels tomorrow. posted by lloydletta EY: But they sure are pushing the Stadium Boondoggle in greater Minnesota.... For example, legislators talk about the agenda at the capitol in Willmar. http://www.wctrib.com/articles/index.cfm?idP09§ion=news Stadiums discussion In other business, The Minnesota Twins appear positioned to snap a long losing streak at the Capitol, with the LegislatureÂs leaders suggesting that a ballpark bill would fare well in the upcoming session. Approval for a new Gophers stadium on the University of Minnesota campus is even more likely, but a third stadium proposal  a plan by the Minnesota Vikings to build a new stadium in Anoka County  will have to wait at least another year, they said. ÂThree stadiums is too big a bite, said House Speaker Steve Sviggum, R-Kenyon. When it comes to the Twins, the stakes are high: Earlier this month, a Hennepin County judge ruled that the Twins donÂt have to play in the Metrodome beyond the 2006 season, and failure to set a new stadium into motion this year would likely revive talk of a sale or move by the team. The latest proposal is a venture between the Twins and Hennepin County on an outdoor ballpark in the downtown Minneapolis warehouse district. It was slated to cost $478 million last year, but thatÂs since climbed by at least $30 million. None of the principals have publicly said how theyÂd fill the new gap. The biggest funding source, $353 million, would come from a 0.15 percent sales tax in Hennepin County. The current plan calls for the tax to be imposed without voter approval, the biggest point of contention among critics. Still, both Sviggum and Senate Deputy Minority Leader Tom Neuville, R-Northfield, said that at least half their caucuses would vote for the plan without a Hennepin County referendum. The Democratic leaders of the Senate and House werenÂt as unequivocal  both have more members from Hennepin County in their caucuses  but both said the votes were probably there. Senate Majority Leader Dean Johnson, DFL-Willmar, said he takes seriously the prospect that legislative inaction could lead to a loss of the team. ÂI sincerely believe that after a 2006 that saw no action, that Major League Baseball will do something with the Twins  like let them be bought and moved to a new home, Johnson said. EY: I encourage Johnson - and Governor Pawlenty, Speaker Sviggum and Tom Neuville to step up to the plate and support a statewide sales tax increase for the stadium rather than sticking this to Minneapolis. On another topic, Johnson caused the state party to have a hissy fit over this: Johnson blamed Republicans for targeting him personally on the gay marriage issue, although he said that as a minister he never would marry a gay couple. ÂThe governor of this state and the speaker of the House have their cannons set on Willmar, Minnesota, he said about his home. Gay marriage opponents recently conducted a rally in Willmar, where several speakers targeted Johnson, including Sviggum. Pawlenty sent a video message to the rally. Referring to a tense scene two years ago in which armed police escorted him out of the Capitol past gay marriage opponents, Johnson said: ÂI do not wish to have this state Capitol become downtown Baghdad on the gay marriage issue. EY: Seems like Dean Johnson scored a home run. The usual suspects are howling: http://www.minnesotademocratsexposed.com/2006/02/breaking-news-statement-by-mn-gop-on.html Eva Young Near North Minneapolis <email obscured> Lloydletta's Nooz http://lloydletta.blogspot.com Dump Michele Bachmann http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, & printer (1706 - 1790) http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html
Burden of Dreams, Les Blank's documentary about the making of
Fitzcarraldo, will be shown this evening in "the basin" (located at 22nd
and Quincy ST in lovely lower NE MPLS right across the street from Edison
High School).
Fitzcarraldo, Werner Herzog's story of Brian Sweeney Fitzgerald, an
extremely determined man who intends to build an opera house in the middle
of the Peruvian jungle. Taking place in the 1800s Herzog and company
actually drag a large boat over a mountain, keeping it real as it would
have been done in the 1800s. Over two years in the making Mick Jagger was
first cast as the lead but soon whimped out being replaced by Klaus Kinski
who also wanted to do the same but was persuaded by Herzog (and a hand
gun) to stick around.
Movies are again shown this summer every Tuesday evening through June in
"the basin" with screenings that include on June 13th Dog Day Afternoon,
June 20th In Heaven There Is No Beer by Les Blank with scenes that include
NE Minneapolis, and on June 27th Billy Jack.
Brought to you by The Holland Neighborhood Improvement Association and
National Projects, this year's lineup is the best yet!!! It starts when
it gets dark, bring a blanket, something to drink and snack on and relax
and have a time and a half.
Tom Taylor
Lovely Lower NE Minneapolis
Shoot the Problems (with a camera!)
I hear a lot of problems from certain neighborhoods. There are issues
that need attention from our city government. Can we bring these issues
to them in an effective way?
So many of the neighborhood websites are all about accentuating the
positive... to the degree that they downplay or ignore problems
entirely!
I'm wondering if people who see problems in Minneapolis would be willing
to take some photographs, write a description of the problem, and have
the pictures posted on a website - or included in a slideshow / short
video.
How about a "Real Tour of Our Neighborhood" that shows the real picture?
Like problem areas? Drug and sex trash? Junk cars? Rundown apartments?
Fast traffic right next to front yards? Real interviews with real
neighbors?
I'm not suggesting taking pictures of actual crime or criminals! That,
of course, would be dangerous!
I am suggesting taking pictures of the environment in which you live,
that makes your neighborhood less livable. A photo of a park in the
early morning showing graffiti, and an explanation that normally fifteen
rowdy teenagers hang out here harrassing passersby, is great.
The point is to use a "citizen's eye" to show what is really going on
in Minneapolis. Some neighborhoods are great. Some could really use
some help.
We know the problems are there. We need to change the environment.
Let's show our city leaders what the real picture is!
This will only work with a lot of volunteer photographers. Is anyone
interested?
Brian Hanna
Linden Hills
In his press release on the Issues List last Thursday, the Mayor took credit
for the results of the Juvenile Crime Unit, announcing that arrests of juvenile
offenders for robberies and aggravated assaults had increased by 115% in May
and June compared to the same period last year.
The actual total increase in arrests was 39 compared to the same period last
year.
So that we might assess whether 39 more arrests of juveniles is significant, I
have some questions for the Mayors Communications Director.
How many violent crimes were committed in Minneapolis from May 1 June 30, and
by what percentage did the number of violent crimes increase over the same
period in 2005? That is, how many more opportunities to make arrests existed
this year because of rising crime?
The number of violent crimes (homicide, rape, robbery and aggravated assault)
in Minneapolis has increased by 867, or by 32 percent, this year through July
17, when compared to the same period in 2005.
How many arrests were made of adults for robberies and aggravated assaults from
May 1 June 30 this year, and during the same period in 2005?
Even though the number of violent crimes has risen dramatically, the number of
arrests for those crimes has actually remained about the same. Thus, a smaller
percentage of offenders is being arrested this year compared to last.
If the total number of arrests is the same as last year, and the number of
juvenile arrests is up, then the number of adult arrests must be down. While
the city tries to fix one hole in the dike, many others spring leaks.
I am sure that the police are doing the best that they can with the resources
they have. Further analysis will determine whether 39 more arrests of juveniles
is significant, or whether the press release is another attempt to distract
from the fact that the police department remains woefully understaffed.
Lisa McDonald
East Harriet
Posted by Robert Halfhill <email obscured> Loring Park
I am posting this information to alert all those who want to
organized the protest demonstration.
From today's Pioneer Press
Posted on Thu, Aug. 10, 2006
Bush to host Bachmann benefit
Wayzata reception to cost $1,000 per guest
Associated Press
President Bush will lend his fundraising abilities to state Sen.
Michele Bachmann's congressional campaign later this month.
Bush is scheduled to host an afternoon event for Bachmann on Aug. 22,
according to an invitation to the event obtained by the Associated
Press.
A Republican donor who received the invitation shared it with the AP
on
the condition of anonymity. Bachmann campaign manager Andy Parrish
wouldn't confirm the event Wednesday. He referred calls to a White
House spokesman, who didn't immediately return a voice-mail message.
In helping Bachmann, the GOP candidate in the 6th Congressional
District, Bush is following a trail blazed by his top political aide,
Karl Rove, and Vice President Dick Cheney. They've already hosted
Bachmann fundraisers. So has House Speaker Dennis Hastert.
The Bush event will be held at the Wayzata home of Jim and Joann
Jundt,
according to the invitation. The reception costs $1,000 per person;
photographs with Bush are going for $5,000.
Bachmann's Democratic opponent, Patty Wetterling, got fundraising help
last week from House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. Former
vice-presidential candidate John Edwards is also expected to host a
Wetterling fundraiser sometime in the coming weeks.
Bachmann, Wetterling and the Independence Party's John Binkowski are
seeking an open congressional seat in the 6th District, which arcs
around the suburban-exurban northern half of the Twin Cities and
stretches west past St. Cloud.
Wetterling campaign manager Corey Day had no immediate comment on the
Bush fundraiser.
Democrats have been eager to tie Bachmann to Bush and his lagging
popularity. The Democratic National Committee called Bachmann "another
Bush rubber stamp" when Rove visited last month.
Having grown up with many cultures have found great
distast when a white man is beatened by a group of
black men and it is not considered a race crime. I
have the same distast when a black man is beatened by
white men, but they are usually charged with a race
crime. Violence is violence and no one commits a
violent crime,against anyone unless they feel hate!
Stewart's writings were hate filled, how else could he
state the correct hate statements without knowing them
and feeling them. Many folks who have been writing in
support of his web blog are white folks who have, it
seems, their own
racist feelings to deal with and hide them in their
support of anything that speaks of color.White black
or red their parents failure or sucess in raising
their kids is the important issue for schools. We need
folks who are not swayed by color or politics to
work for the school board. Until this happens the
system
and the people running it will continue to fail. Dain
Lyngstad Phillips/edina
Hi Dyna,
Sending you the CA's Business Plan for your reference. I am not insensitive
to people's concerns, nor am I naive---I live and work in the heart of the
City.
I, like many others, have a family and the interest of my community at heart.
After 25 years of towing the party line, I began looking at what we are doing
in criminal justice and it is very disturbing. I am not blowing smoke, I do
this
sort of thing for a living and their are some real incongruencies at work in
all of this. People talk about "crime" in very singular terms, failing to
distinguish
between part 1 and part 2. We also fail to look at recidivism closely and ask
why this or that group of people continually lands in trouble. There are
subsets
of our population for whom arrest and incarceration for livability offenses
do not serve as a meaningful deterrant. For folks with a serious mental illness
or the homeless, arrest will resolve nothing in chronic cases---it merely
costs
a ton of money to keep arresting them.
Your observation on the fact that there is no increase in the incarceration
rates of non-violent offenders is totally incorrect. Please reference Devah
Pager's study, "Mark of a Criminal Record" and read the first page. Reference
the statistics she cites with the Dept of Justice and you will corroborate the
600% increase in incarceratioin offenses for drug offenses. A further matter
that is disturbing is that up to 90% of these people are black or hispanic.
It bothers me that the rise in the prison system parallels the advent of the
Civil Rights movement. There are 12 million men with a felony conviction
of working age in the US. If there are 300 million people and you subtract
off 1\2 for women you are left with 150 million. Half that for retired and
children and you are left with around 70 million working age men...12 million
and dramatically rising represents a very significant number of people in
our labor force...it is an impending economic disaster.
In recognition of this, everyone from the DOJ on down is seriously looking
at alternatives. If we don't find other ways we are faced with a very stark
picture in the future. We are, essentially, creating a permanent underclass.
The dialogue that bounces between "lock 'em all up" and "let chaos
reign" is simply too simple-minded to work.
Guy
____________________________________________
__________________________________________________
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Ending Homelessness and Decriminalizing Poverty
January 16, 7-9 pm
at Saint MartinÂ’s Table
2001 Riverside Ave.
Please join me, Cathy ten Broeke, Coordinator on Homelessness for Minneapolis
and Hennepin County, Guy Gambill from the Council on Crime and Justice, Mark
Anderson from the Barbara Schneider Foundation and Margaret Hastings from the
Decriminalization of Homelessness Task Force for the next in my ongoing series
of roundtable discussions. The City Council and County Board have adopted a
ten-year plan to end homelessness in Minneapolis. Come learn how the current
system too often criminalizes the poor and homeless, and about the promising
alternative approaches offered by this plan and elsewhere.
Share your ideas and help us organize for future change and develop better
tools for responding to poverty and homelessness.
I hope to see you there,
Cam Gordon
Seward Neighborhood
Minneapolis City Council Member, Ward 2
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/council/archives.asp Someone can go knock themself out listening to council meetings at the above address, but they only go back seven meetings; I don't know where one can get the oldies but goodies on the web, but they must be archived somewhere. If you know what you want, you can download a pdf form for mail orders of tapes or disks here: http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/cable/cable-dup-request.asp I can't say I care enough about CM Samuels's foot in mouth disease to go further, except it must be contagious. Andrew Reineman's post implied there was a city policy for heterosexual and not homosexual behavior on the job; my guess is the policy just talks about plain old sexual behavior. Wizard might have implied that no American house slaves had progeny. There were probably some others, but heck, we know what they meant to say, I think. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt." -Abraham Lincoln On Feb 10, 2007, at 10:01 AM, David Brauer wrote: Alternatively, is there a video feed available on the city web site? (I can't remember if council-meeting videos are archived, and I've forgotten the meeting date.) Bill Kahn Prospect Park P.S. Sorry for the lousy formatting. My ISP is playing games and I don't have access to a good mail program at the moment
PS--During the past 5 years, I managed to serve on every major policy group,
virtually,
around the issues of homelessness, criminal justice reform, veterans and
immigration....
and also worked on Language preservation, ran serveral web-sites, and did a
whole lot
of other things that none of you know about...in all of these endeavors I was
treated
as someone who could not be ignored. I educated myself and I took each charge
with dead seriousness. Hardly the hallmarks of intellectual terpitude...oh,
and I was
NOT one of the majority who ate doughnuts, watched, did nothing and later
took
credit.
Right now, people are saying, "Guy has gone round the bend." Or that I don't
"get it"somehow...I submit this question to the folks who have to live with the
bad decsions
our government makes, relentlessly...who is making more sense? The ranting
Guy
Gambill or the Mayor and Council Members who still keep saying, with straight
faces,
that they believe in Civil Rights, that they care about the poor, people of
color,
affordable housing and on and on...
The sort of "rational"opposition I am facing: My ex-boss, one of thrree
prosecutors in
the 80s who served as the architect for the sentencing disparities for crack
cocaine
that sent thousands to prsion for far too long...decisions for which we are
reaping our
just deserts now...he was right back then, he was sure of it. Now he's the
guy who
is overcoming racial disparity be leaps and bounds...making over 180 grand
last year
to fix the problems that he helped create...gotta admit, that is one splendid
scam.
Now, we push for sealing non-conviction data...never mind that we don't have
the
research, never mind the gigantic fiscal note orthe oppostion of the cops,
the
newspapers, and-yes-the County Attorneys..."Guy, I know we're right on this
and
this legislation is essential, it will help alot of people." Never mind that
we couldn't
prove that...just do it!!! But it could not be done...and we advised him of
this far in
advance....but promises were made and reputations at stake and someone had to
serve as the fall guy...and that guy is me...2 days ater X-mas, these
"caring"people
fired me...and the pissed off Commissioner and Cathy ten Broeke and that
wishy-washy
"advocate" Mikkely Beckmen provided an additinal well-timed excuse,...
So, we can now add one Guy Gambill, one Amber Stoejevich and one Lance Hanfdy
to the pile...who are we to oppose such a colossal, arrogant and smiling
ego...
And then they have the audacity to call me crazy or stupid...I am real pissed
off, but
you know what? There are some real dummies around town, but I am pretty sure
I'm not
one of 'em...and all they got to do is stand in public across the aisle for
mee and refute
what I say...and there's the problem...they can't.
How does it feel, y'all, to have a formerly homeless crazy vet, ho talks too
much
sometimes, get the best of you so often. It must suck real bad. One last
offer, step
up y'all, I would love to hear how I am wrong in what I'm saying...remember,
my two
words are "Defiance" and "Courage". I'll pick two for you, you can change
them if
you want...how 'bout "Arrogance" and "Cowardice"...That being said, prove me
wrong...
Well...now...I know this is good news, isn't it? How'd Carr get empress control over the entire shopping center plus six blocks in Phillips? She and SHE ALONE is the hero here...isn't she? Something about this article just isn't right... and no it's not just the attitude of the columnist... "A Franklin Avenue crime nightmare ends By KATHERINE KERSTEN, Star Tribune February 3, 2008 In March 2001, Theresa Carr opened her office door to find a Channel 5 Eyewitness News reporter glowering at her, cameraman in tow. "We've been filming your shopping center parking lot undercover for a month," the reporter snapped at her, she says. "You've got drug deals going on everywhere." http://www.startribune.com/local/15188886.html Madeline Douglass Kingfield Downtown East "Carr was mortified. The mission of her non-profit organization, the American Indian Neighborhood Development Corp., was to revitalize the economy of Franklin Avenue, one of the most blighted areas of Minneapolis. At times, it seemed like a mission impossible. Across the street from the group's showcase development -- the shopping center at E. Franklin Avenue and 11th Street -- was a pornography store. Below her office window was what beat cops told her was the busiest pay phone in Minneapolis history, constantly in use by drug dealers. Carr knew she faced a PR nightmare..."
Ya know, somebody ought to shoot K Kersten and put all of us out of her misery.
This is not to say that what Teresa Carr has done is unworthy, but she is not
Atlas, she did not transform Franklin Avenue all by her lonesome. Some credit
has to be given to the residents, the NRP especially, and the police
department. I would give Ms. Carr all the credit she is obviously due, but damn
it, everybody else worked their collective fannies off to produce the change on
Franklin Avenue. (Not myself, I had nothing to do with it, but hundreds of
people worked that miracle.)
Wizard:
Ya know, somebody ought to shoot K Kersten and put all of us out of her misery.
List manager:
I'm sorry but I'm having trouble feeling a sense of civil decency when I
hear a remark that says we should shoot someone because we don't agree. It
does not sound very democratic to me. And believe me, I don't agree with
what K Kersten says most all the time, but I do respect her right for her to
say it.
Ohmigod! Not ....[cue scary music]....A PR NIGHTMARE!!!
So that's what was wrong with Phillips? With Franklin Avenue? Bad
PR?
And she was mortified? Well she might be if she had never noticed
what was happening right there before her very eyes.
(And now it's a wonderful place to do business. It always was. Just
the wrong businesses. But she fixed that. Hey, where'd they go?)
And now she's a hero. A mere seven years later. And riding off to
save the North Side. (Maybe that's where they went.) Boy howdy, is
this city lucky or what?
Jeane Moore
Southeast Como
A couple of list members have written to say my response was too subtle.
So let me be clear: this kind of rhetoric has no place on Minneapolis Issues.
I've dealt with the matter off list in a meaningful way.
Thanks for the polite (and off list) feedback.
Re: K Kersten
One must remember that the purpose of K Kertsen, Rush Limbaugh, et
al. is not "balance" or real debate. It is to distract, to confound,
to aggravate and get people (libruls) to "spin their wheels".
The proper response is ridicule, as Al Franken did years ago with
Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot.
Mike Jensvold
East Isles
"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." - Lord Helmet, "Spaceballs"
Ray Rolfe: "Anyway, this is all transparent when you look at the West Broadway
planning documents. The city wants that property and they are going to get it.
Period. It's just politically strategic to make it seem like John Alexander is
somehow incompetent and undeserving of his property."
This is the point where I get all offended. We experience this situation over
and over in the city. Someone makes a plan, but the plan involves land the
makers do not own. I haven't polled this particular city council, but there
have been, in the past, tensions between those who would use eminent domain for
the "greater good" (of developers and politicians who are building a rep) and
those who would not.
Imagine this: you own a little lot with a building in the middle of what is
slated to be the next hot, trendy spot. You want to hold on to that land until
some developer comes up ready to pay what you think the land is worth to any
developer. Developer holds out, city/county/state steps in, an assessor comes
in and judges the worth, then the city takes it for that amount. Invariably,
the amount the official assessment may be the true value of land and building
in the abstract, but to the developer who wants a seamless project, it's worth
a lot more.
Jason Goray: "...there are three basic types of laws: ... *Laws that cover the
basic running of the infrastructure and maintenance of the state. ... I do NOT
feel obligated to follow the third set of laws. "
For the sake of argument, I'll pass on Mr. Goray's construct for the moment.
However, his construct has this flaw: It appears that Mr. Goray has put the
traffic laws governing bicycles under the wrong category. They should fall
under 'laws governing the basic running of the infrastructure and maintenance
of the state.'
Traffic laws ARE maintenance of the infrastructure--the streets.
Clearly, it's not a far leap for someone who 'does not feel obligated to follow
the third set of laws' to move laws from one category to another to justify
virtually anything. Those in prison, some of them, are there for bank robbery,
murder, grand theft auto, etc. They rationalized that the laws against each
crime were in Goray's third category, they did not apply to the offender.
Goray's rationalization is a lot of hooey when it comes to traffic laws. Yes,
it is a pain in the butt to have to stop for the red lights, even in a car.
It's particularly a pain if you have to go to the bathroom, for example.
However, whether there's a cop present or not, it's still a good idea to stop
on the red ones, go on the green ones, because the other traffic, of whatever
stripe, is expecting you to stop on the red ones and their behavior follows
from that expectation.
This line of thinking leads to suicide by whoever, leaving some poor person
with the nightmares from having run over a scofflaw unavoidably. Thanks a toad
ton.
Tim Bonham: "So in other words, new CDs are being added at about half the rate
of last year, before the merger."
You have compared YTD figures for HCL to the figures for the whole of 2007 at
MPL. Materials are received throughout the year, processed, cataloged, and put
on the shelves, which takes time to accomplish. The figures for this year in
Amy Ryan's post were out of date the moment she wrote them.
The last year of MPL was really pitiful and desperate in terms of adding new
materials to the library. There was virtually no money in the acquisitions
budget and what there was had been robbed to fulfill other needs. So any
materials figures from 2007 are not typical.
Darielle Dannen: "Lots of fraud where there were inflated incomes (written in
by the mortgage broker), inflated ppraisals and kick-backs to the mortgage
broker and lender for giving borrowers with great credit crappy loans
(essentially they made a bonus for each bad loan they gave to someone who could
get a good loan). "
Yes! This is what happened to people I know. Perfect credit for years on end,
very low to non-existent credit card debt (and penalized by the three credit
card evaluators for having only one credit card), no debt but their home--not
even a car, and still they were hornswaggled by predatory lenders.
It gives the lie to those who claim that it was individuals who caused
themselves problems rather than a nation-wide scam. It was a house of cards
built on lies and fraud which left a bloody mess in its wake.
Yesterday's paper had an article, www.startribune.com/nation/18672489.html,
that really makes a person crazy.
According to studies by the Sentencing Project in Washington and by Human
Rights Watch in New York, the crowding in prisons is the result of "an
overwhelming focus of law enforcement on inner-city drug use, with arrests and
incarceration the main weapon." The studies also say that "more than four in
five of the arrests were for possession of banned substances, rather than for
their sale or manufacture. Four in 10 of all drug arrests were for marijuana
possession, according to the latest FBI data."
The questions for me are: how do I look up the statistics for Minneapolis
incarcerations in this data? If, indeed, 1.89 million (2006) arrests, up from
581,000 in 1980, are being made, then how much of Minneapolis' scarce resources
are being put into arrests, incarceration, court costs, rehab, and whatever
else?
The article also noted large disparities in arrests of black people vs. white
people, even though both races use drugs equally--no surprise there.
We have created a huge industry out of Ronal Reagan's "War on Drugs," but do we
have any idea how to end this war?
Sorry to belabor the school referendum issue, but I thought that 41 posts to
the earlier topic would have gotten around to the following aspects of the
issue. Evidently not.
So here are a few additional questions that list members and others might want
to consider as they examine this $480M/8-Year property tax proposition. I'm
sure there are others.
1) In list members' opinions, does the doubling of the size of this referendum
levy represent a significant increase in the burden on city residential
property tax payers? What kind of effect will it have on the business climate
of the city (i.e., C/I tax payers)?
2) Will the cost to local taxpayers of the $60M/year referendum proposal remain
constant (approx $204/year on a $256K house) over the 8 year life of the
proposal or is it structured to escalate in the out-years as a number of
previous referenda have been?
3) Was it a good idea that Saturday's DFL City convention approved DFL
endorsement of the referendum proposal without knowing the terms of the
proposal because the terms have not been written yet?
4) Do most list members know that the eventual ballot question cannot promise
to dedicate the funds to any particular purpose (class size, accountability,
you name it) because State law does not allow dedication of such levies?
5) Since the current referendum does not expire until the end of 2009, is it
possible that the School Board put this new referendum on the ballot a year
early in this highly controversial presidential race year in hopes that this
expensive and poorly developed proposal be eclipsed by the larger races and
will not be closely examined by local voters?
Ann Berget
Kingfield 8-7
Brandon L. Campos: "I stand by my earlier statement, Farheen Hakeem is the BEST
candidate for 61B, she is reflective of the immigrant community, the growing
Muslim community, the progressive community, and the values, ideals, and mores
that are at the heart of neighborhoods here."
Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't think potential candidates have
to file until June or July, which means we will not have an accurate picture of
who can be the best candidate for 61B before that date.
However, just considering her posts to this list, I don't find anything
particularly astute about Ms. Hakeem. Nor do I find her a BEST candidate for
61B.
OOPS - I inadvertently replied to a private message from Mr. Thompson to the
list. I was not aware at the time that he had not posted his comments to me
on the list. He referred to "Back Channel" communications, and I guess I am
too obtuse to understand what he was referring to. He has asked me to
apologize, so here goes.
I now see my error, and humbly ask for forgiveness from Mr. Thompson and to
anyone else who may be offended.
Actually, however I will temper my apology by saying that the subject is
public and I did intend the reply to go out to everyone, so perhaps I am not
really all that sorry.
I guess my Karma has sunk to a level where I should prepare to return as a
fly maggot.
This apology was delayed due to the two post limit.
Wm. McGaughey: "I wasnt there but eyewitnesses tell me after Maurice had
rescued his wife from the hair pullers and got her inside the car, an angry mob
surrounded the car and tried to open the door to pull her out. Officer Adams
then stood in front of the car to trap the Ellringers in the parking lot.
Maurice was not about to let his wife be assaulted so he yelled at the officer
to get out of the way. When officer Adams refused, Ellringer pulled off,
forcing Adams up on the hood. Then, after Adams had climbed off the hood,
Ellringer gunned it out of the parking lot and drove home, with Adams firing
gun shots at the fleeing car.'
"Yes, there was a City Pages cover story about Donna Ellringer whose cover
illustration showed Ellringer with a rifle. But that was merely a symbol of
what the City Pages editors wanted to convey. If Ellringer ever threatened
people on her block with a loaded rifle, I am unaware of it.
"It also took a courageous governor telling the city of Minneapolis in no
uncertain terms that it needed to clean up the street crime; and, if the city
wouldnt do it, state government would."
Wm. McGaughey: "People on this list seem utterly unwilling to consider the
question that I raised. What are the obligations of the city, the city police,
the courts, etc. in dealing with the crime problem. If a crime has occurred,
cant the criminal be arrested and prosecuted? Isnt that how the system is
supposed to work? Shouldnt the spotlight of public policy be on government and
its effectiveness?"
Everyone who opens a dram shop, a hospital, a restaurant, a this or a that has
to hurdle a series of bars to go into business and stay in business. It should
be the same for rental property. That's the counter argument which landlords
sometimes refuse to hear.
What the police can do is very limited in its nature. Police can also do things
very contrary to their own best interests and ours because of laws in place
that cannot be effectively enforced. There is a law against public drunkenness,
but the police can't cure alcoholism. Same thing for other illegal drugs of
whatever stripe.
The city ordinances are very often contradictory, but there are not enough
bureaucrats to effectively contend with the amount of rental property in the
city. The very definition of city includes rental property, commercial,
residential, manufacturing, etc.
The police cannot put people out of their homes (using the term very loosely)
because they are drug dealers. They can only put them in jail for a limited
amount of time IF they catch them with enough product on their persons to meet
the legal standard for dealing. Therefore, they rely on the owners of rental
property to want to remove bad tenants for the sake of their investment.
Is that an irrational standard for interaction among humans in a "civilized"
society? I don't think so. By asking the question, you are denying one obvious
rational way to contend with bad tenants. Examine the limitations of the
justice system and the municipal bureaucracy then fill in the responsibilities
you will have to assume if you are going to be in the business of having rental
properties. When tenants don't live up to a reasonable standard, it falls on
the landlord to do the right thing, even if it means a loss of rent and a a
unit's worth of people who become homeless. It shouldn't fall to the neighbors
to do more than to inform the landlord about what's going on.
Dan McGuire: "Charter school advocates have never been able to demonstrate that
charter schools benefit the whole group; they benefit only a small percentage
of the whole population of students while sucking resources and students away
the larger group. And yes, legally, charter school teachers are theoretically
able to join a union in Minnesota. Don't hold your breath til that happens,
though."
Were charter schools meant to "benefit the whole group?" I thought they were
created to benefit the few who were not successful in the public schools.
The picture I get from parent who have kids in the public school is that a kid
who had trouble in first grade which netted the kid a suspension, that "record"
goes with the kid to second grade. The retaliation on the part of the second
grade teacher with record in hand, can be ferocious, particularly against kids
of color and kids who had behavioral problems, but outgrew them over the
summer. It becomes an excuse not to challenge the kid to work up to his
potential or, worse yet, teach the kid at all.
The school may give the parent a lot of gobbledygook psycho babble, or fob it
off on a floating psychologist, but it amounts to a teacher who wants to
justify not teaching, or not knowing how to teach, to every kid in the class
The most important time to be the student of a good teacher is in the
beginning, even if the kid is not quite ready to be a student. Whereas, a lousy
teacher in college is just a bore, a lousy teacher in the beginning of a school
career is a blockade.
If the kid is also bright, the teacher is doubly at fault for not discovering
it or not knowing how to cope with it. Frankly, the public schools,
country-wide and historically, have not had an admirable history vis-a-vis
teaching either the slow or the bright up to their different potentials. They
apparently teach for the middle of the roaders.
Charter schools are a reaction to traditional public school's failures. You can
hardly blame parents for trying to get their kids educated. Yes, it suck money
out of public schools, but to a concerned parent, getting the kid at least
fairly educated is first on the list. They are putting their kid first, just
what we expect caring parents to do.
Can any one address the possible situation if the $700 Billion dollar bail out
is not offered ...Is there any subtance to the theory we would all be worst off
if it's not done?.........
Reggie Birts
Eden Prairie
Mortgage Specialist
(Contact me for all your Home and Small Business Financing)
Reggie Birts asked
> Can any one address the possible situation if the $700 Billion dollar bail
out is not offered ...Is there any subtance to the theory we would all be
worst off if it's not done?.........
Well it is like this. You go to the bank. You put a dollar into savings.
Because of fractional banking, they are able to lend out ten dollars as long
as they have your dollar in the bank. If someone doesn't pay back the ten
dollars, the bank has to come up with ten dollars. Now that ten dollars was
supporting $100 of loans. So because of your one dollar, $100 was lost to
the economy.
For lots of reasons, housing prices went up farther than they should have.
Now there is a bubble and housing prices are falling. All these banks that
loaned out those dollars now don't know if they will get them back. The more
time goes on, the worse things get because it is a death spiral. People
don't buy because they are waiting for the bottom of the market. Banks get
houses that people don't want so they sell them at a discount to get rid of
them. Prices go down further so more people wait and so banks sell at lower
prices, driving prices down further.
So all those banks that loaned that money out assuming that they would get
back what they loaned out, now may not. In fact, they may get much less than
they paid out because for a homeowner, it may make more sense to just give
the keys back to the bank rather than continue to pay on a house that now is
worth a lot less than you paid for it. Sure it hurts your credit rating but
as long as you don't try to buy right away, who cares?
So now, no one knows how sound anyone else is. On top of it, there are fears
that we are going to fall into a bad recession. We have been dancing around
one for some time now but now it seems that it is here. So folks are even
more reticent to loan money. So in some sectors, they simply don't loan out
money. For example, the City of Minneapolis issues variable rate bonds. The
bond rate went from 1.77% to over 7% in one week because they had a hard time
finding anyone to buy our loans. And we are rated the most credit worthy of
any type of organization in the economy. If no one buys our loans, we do
have an organization that pledged to buy our loans if no one else will but if
enough organizations fall into that problem, that insurance agency will run
out of money and go out of business and we will be completely at the risk of
the market.
So no one wants to lend any money to anyone else because they don't know if
they will be solvent or not next week. It becomes more complex because all
this stuff is incredibly intertwined. The folks that do insurance for
municipal bonds also do insurance for other kinds of financial instruments.
So if they are involved in insuring housing bonds, they may have enough money
for their municipal bonds but run out of money because of housing bonds. So
the municipal bond market could be hurt because of the housing market.
So what could happen? The fear is that because no one knows how to value all
this stuff that banks will stop lending money or tighten credit so tightly
that it is about the same effect. Then we could go into a huge recession, as
more and more businesses go out of busines, which means fewer people working
and having money to buy things which means more businesses go out of
business, circle around and around. That is what they are afraid of.
We are now at the point where banks have stopped lending money. If we don't
find some solution, we could be at that point where more businesses go out of
business because of a lack of capital. And at that point, it won't be some
tony Wall Street businesses but it will be every business. Which way things
go is not known. I know that just last week I was struck by the number of
vacant storefronts on Nicollet and I wondered if we were already there in
terms of a depression, with the latest borrowing issues just a part of a
bigger picture.
I surely don't know all the details of this but it seems to me that something
needs to be done to stablize the housing market and an intervention at the
individual level is as warrented as intervention at the bank level. I would
like to see a program where people can go into bankruptcy court to try to
keep their house and have a judge be able to forgive a portion of the loan.
The bank could then be paid from a government pool or could even cut a deal
to participate in any recovery in the housing market. I also think that
Congress should void the variable rate loans and require conversion to
conventional loans within a year. Something like these changes would provide
an incentive for homeowners to stay in their homes rather than abandon them.
Obviously regulation of many aspects of these markets is needed but I would
hope that would focus first on the homeowner, something that wasn't in the
first proposals for the $700B.
Carol Becker
Longfellow
O.K. here is the part I don't understand. When people had to go "belly up" on
the adjustable rate mortgages they got caught up in why didn't the mortgage
company just offer to convert that mortgage to a fixed rate with a 30 or 40
year term. They maybe wouldn't make as much money but at least they would be
getting paid something. I mean 5% is less than 10% but it is still a profit.
Then banks wouldn't be sitting with all this real estate on their hands and
maybe we wouldn't be in this situation. Can anyone explain what is missing with
my logic here?
Because the mortgage loan is guaranteed by Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, so if it
goes into foreclosure, the mortgage company just turns it over to them, and
makes nearly it's full profit on the loan. And the little loss they do have on
the foreclosure can be written off on their taxes.
So it doesn't really matter to them if a loan fails. And a real incentive to
encourage people to take out home loans far in excess of what they can
reasonably pay back.
Carol
I spent the best part of my life making market in S&P 500's, Spring Wheat,
British Pound, and now Euro Currency so I have seen the economic hiccups from a
unique prospective. You are quite correct in your assessment of our fractional
banking system. Since the repeal of Glass Stiegel commercial banks has taken on
massive risk. By the same token, and by FDIC requirements, many market-makers
that deal in Municipal Bonds are no longer in business. Merrill Lynch, Bear
Sterns, and Lehman Brothers are essentially gone. AIG is now the property of
the US government and Fortes now belongs to Belgium. Still all is not lost. My
theory that money rushes to the highest safest return is still in play. I wrote
an article that hopefully will be finished being proof read for the MPLS Mirror
moon reflects the decline in value ( that's how bonds trade, the lower the
value the higher the yield) of Minneapolis municipals traded through Dexia in
France is due to the pending collapse of Dexia and not based on any problem in
Minneapolis. Since Dexia is our guarantor and underwriter and has received
approximately 6 Billion Euros in aid from France, Belgium, and Luxembourg. As
long as we continue to make our payments and there has been no funny business
in our city's books, buyers will rush in bid up our bond in-spite of Dexia. We
may have to endure a real outside audit for that to happen and not just the
limited audit the state of Minnesota puts us through. If our books are clean
and the CPA's find no corruption ( if they do then we will pay the piper) our
bonds will continue to sell at a premium. So in my estimation this $700 Billion
dollar plan misses the mark. Actually, I go into some detail on how this bail
out needs to begin with the European Central Bank and the Bank of England
cutting their key lending rates and adding liquidity to those foreign markets
further supporting the dollar. My fear is that we revisit the Wiemar republic
and devalue our currency to the point where it might cost $100 for a gallon of
milk if we start printing dollars at this accelerated rate. Any solution must
be international as we live in a global market place. The old expression was if
some one at UBS (Union Bank of Switzerland) sneezed, we caught a cold on Wall
Street and were reaching for our medical insurance cards on Lasalle st in
Chicago ( home of the Chicago Board of Trade and the center of US treasury
instrument trade). The idea that the United States can act unilaterally and
avert this crisis is ludicrous. There are structural changes coming to our
financial markets, most of which are out of our control. If Minneapolis debt is
undervalued, I have learned that those discounts don't last long.
Michael Katch
Downtown East
All of these explanations miss most of the real answer by a mile. Yes, banks
do loan out more than they have in savings. Yes, mortgage loans are often
guaranteed. But until you start talking about Collateralized Debt Obligations
(CDOs), Collateralized Mortgage Obligations (CMOs) and especially Credit
Default Swaps (CDSs), you are not even close to the problem.
The market for CDSs, an "exotic derivative" investment is huge; it's the
largest derivative market in the world. Some experts estimate the CDS market
at $43 trillion, said to be about half the assets of all banks worldwide. Like
stock market "put" options, credit default swaps allow traders ("counter
parties") to bet on and control more money than they actually invest, meaning
they can make payoffs ten times the size of their investment in short periods
of time -- or similarly lose that amount. CDSs are poorly regulated and
unknown to most people. Yet they're the reason the large investment banks are
hurting. CDSs are used both as "insurance" to protect against a loan or bond
failing by the issuer, and as wild speculative bets by completely uninvolved
3rd parties -- i.e. you sell me a CDS that says if Joe Blow doesn't pay off his
mortgage, you'll pay me the value of the mortgage. If he does, then you are
ahead by the quarterly interest payments I pay you during the term of the CDSs,
whose value is a tiny fraction of the mortgage value. Write a huge bunch of
those kind of CDSs and then put them into a market where they're bought and
sold based on any day's feelings of optimism and pessimism regarding the
original debtors' ability to pay, and imagine what happens when a bunch of
subprime mortgages go sour. Panic city.
So, yes. Some people got mortgages they couldn't afford, some because of
predatory lending, some because of simple bad luck, some because of ignorance
and some because of the vast amount of cheap money pumped into the lending
economy by the Fed. And yes, some smaller commercial banks have probably
suffered some losses for those mortgages which have gone into foreclosure. A
huge number of those mortgages are bundled together and sold as collateralized
investment securities and/or sold to investment bankers, or primarily sold to
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. The originating bank didn't lose any money on
mortgages it already sold when things started collapsing last year. They were
already out of the picture.
The primary people losing money at the moment are people who wildly speculated
in this stuff to the tune of millions or billions of dollars.
Lastly, credit has not dried up and there's little reason it should dry up
among non-investment banking firms, like your local small commercial lenders.
Small businesses and individuals can still get credit and are doing so every
day.
Some quick references:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap
www.investinginbonds.com/assets/files/LehmanExoticCredDerivs.pdf
Chris Johnson <chris@visi.com> said: > Lastly, credit has not dried up and there's little reason it should dry up among non-investment banking firms, like your local small commercial lenders. Small businesses and individuals can still get credit and are doing so every day. Actually there are several articles out today that talk about credit getting tighter. Small Businesses Feeling the Chill Some small companies say they are no longer able to get loans from newly cautious banks as credit tightens across the country, and even those who do qualify are increasingly reluctant to borrow and expand, fearful of overextending themselves in the midst of the financial crisis. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/business/smallbusiness/02sbiz.html?em Under Strain, Cities Are Cutting Back Projects Cities, states and other local governments have been effectively shut out of the bond markets for the last two weeks, raising the cost of day-to-day operations, threatening longer-term projects and dampening a broad source of jobs and stability at a time when other parts of the economy are weakening. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/business/01muni.html?em Credit crunch hurting auto sellers and buyers "It went from the housing market to the car market," said Reggie Chambers III, sales manager at Anderson Automotive Group in Baltimore. To be sure, the auto industry has been reeling all year, thanks to falling home prices and record gas prices, which soured buyers on the large trucks and cars Detroit had depended on for profitability. Now, the credit crisis is making things worse, as buyers struggle to qualify for loans and automakers scale back leasing. http://secure.www.twincities.com/ci_10612732 Carol Becker Longfellow
Barbara Lickness <blickness@yahoo.com> said:
> O.K. here is the part I don't understand. When people had to go "belly up"
on the adjustable rate mortgages they got caught up in why didn't the
mortgage company just offer to convert that mortgage to a fixed rate with a
30 or 40 year term. They maybe wouldn't make as much money but at least they
would be getting paid something. I mean 5% is less than 10% but it is still a
profit. Then banks wouldn't be sitting with all this real estate on their
hands and maybe we wouldn't be in this situation. Can anyone explain what is
missing with my logic here?
People typically have to have insurance until they have 20% equity in the
bank. So the insurance company often ends up paying rather than the bank
when there is a loss. Their incentive is to milk the loan for as long as
possible. So there is no incentive for the bank to renegotiate. Of course,
insurance companies go out of business but the banks, at least for a while,
are OK.
Also often, because the mortgages were repackaged and then "sliced and diced"
so portions of mortgages were owned by different people, often it isn't even
clear who "owns" the mortgage.
Also, some of the sleazier mortgages had a penalty for renegotiating or even
banned it outright. So some people are just stuck.
Last, I think there has been a reticence on the part of the banking community
to admit what a pickle they are in. So I think that now there is more
interest in renegotiating than there has been in the past.
Carol Becker
Longfellow
Carol Becker wrote:
> We are now at the point where banks have stopped lending money. If we don't
> find some solution, we could be at that point where more businesses go out of
> business because of a lack of capital. And at that point, it won't be some
> tony Wall Street businesses but it will be every business. Which way things
> go is not known. I know that just last week I was struck by the number of
> vacant storefronts on Nicollet and I wondered if we were already there in
> terms of a depression, with the latest borrowing issues just a part of a
> bigger picture.
>
>
Mark Anderson:
Yeah right. I have seen no evidence that banks have stopped lending
money. Have Wells Fargo and US Bank and every other bank decided to go
out of business? Because it is their business to lend money -- if they
stop lending they might as well liquidate. Okay, I exaggerate; these
banks have their fingers in many types of financial investments besides
lending money. But lending is a big part of bank business and there is
no way they are going to abandon it.
Sure, credit has been getting tighter. But that's a GOOD thing. The
problem is that too many people have taken out too many bad loans and
got too over-extended. You can blame predatory lenders or greedy
consumers, but either way the incentives out there have created a lot of
stupid loans. This crisis is a perfect opportunity to put some
discipline back into the credit markets. Instead our federal government
has decided to do a massive takeover of a large chunk of the financial
markets so that everyone can continue on their merry way making a lot of
bad loans. The federal government is not known for its financial
discipline. Do you really think that putting them in charge will put
our financial markets back on a strong footing?
Certainly it is possible that no bailout would result in a recession as
over-extended businesses fail, over-extended consumers go bankrupt and
credit-driven spending drops dramatically (although I think it is by no
means certain that a recession would occur). A recession is a bad
thing, but it isn't as bad as continuing our over-extended ways. This
bailout won't fix the financial markets, only delay the day of reckoning.
I think that 20 years from now, when the Iraq War is merely something in
the history books, this bailout will be seen as Bush's biggest blunder.
Hopefully, by that time it will be clear that it is the credit card
mentality of our time that has caused these problems, and greedy bankers
and stupid consumers are only symptoms.
> Mark Anderson: > Yeah right. I have seen no evidence that banks have stopped > lending money. Reading the newspaper might be a good place to start. There are several articles a day about the effects of tight credit, on individuals [including those in Minneapolis], small businesses [including those in Minneapolis], municipalities, and states. "Minnesota banks issue 20% fewer SBA loans" http://www.twincities.com/ci_10622911 "Dealers find it harder to get credit for customers" http://www.startribune.com/business/30452784.html "Credit squeeze hits Twin Cities car lots" http://www.startribune.com/business/30071864.html "Under Strain, Cities Are Cutting Back Projects" http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/business/01muni.html "Schwarzenegger predicts difficult path for Calif." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27006906/ [California's top finance officials] have been worried that the credit market will hurt the state's ability to get short-term loans to cover basic operating expenses, a step California takes each fall until the bulk of its tax revenue arrives in the spring. ... "Absent a clear resolution to this financial crisis that restores confidence and liquidity to the credit markets, California and other states may be unable to obtain the necessary level of financing to maintain government operations and may be forced to turn to the Federal Treasury for short-term financing," Schwarzenegger wrote. Does anyone know if Minneapolis is experiencing similar problems obtaining either short-term or long-term debt (e.g., issuing bonds)? But, I would like to think that people can read newspapers on their own, and don't need me to select articles for them. > Have Wells Fargo and US Bank and every other bank decided to go > out of business? Because it is their business to lend money -- if they > stop lending they might as well liquidate. ... A better, although very abstract, model is that the role of banks is to evaluate credit risk -- the risk that a loan won't be repaid. Some banks have done a very bad job of this and _have_ gone out of business. Again, I assume that you have been reading the newspapers. By the way, our traditionally local banks, U.S. Bank and Wells Fargo seem to have generally avoided the subprime mortgage markets. Note that Wells Fargo is trying to acquire a bank that didn't avoid the subprime mess. "Wells Fargo will acquire Wachovia" http://www.startribune.com/business/30261874.html So, given that banks _do_ go out of business if this misjudge the risk of their loans, it is not surprising that banks become reluctant to lend money when it is difficult for them to predict loan default rates. This seems to be happening now. > Sure, credit has been getting tighter. But that's a GOOD thing. This doesn't appear to represent a grasp of the fundamental role of debt in our economy. Or, an understanding of how tight monetary policy is generally regarded as contributing to, if not causing, the Great Depression. But, that is the topic for another lecture...
Since readers prefer this ++ 2 year old thread, I am reposting somthing I wrote this morning under "perfect storm" thread. It's a long scroll to the bottom of the Forum web page to find current posts under 'No Subject'...and those who do not subscribe to the nightly summary or receive individual emails read THAT Web page...hence the importance of a 'Subject'. Banks are refusing loans to **GOOD**credit risks or charging +10% interest to those **GOOD** good credit risks. Even a short period of time under this policy creates layoffs, affects the dollar, risks stagflation (for all of you youn'uns who remember the mid 70's), hits infrastructure/police/ems services and scares the bejeebers out of everyone...from the local grocer toBuffet. Donations to charities and endowments have already decreased. Keep it up too long, and watch farmers go under and your