All posts in the topic Tesco's in North Street (Short link)
Summary
- There are 27 posts — by 17 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Matthew Symonds at Apr 29 13:03 UTC
I'm quite surprised not to have heard about this
before, and also that the forum doesn't seem too
exercised about this.
Don't want to seem paranoid, but I wonder if there'd
be the same sanguine reaction if Tesco's opened in
place of the 'Booze Buster' in the well-established
and 'nicer' part of North St?
What with the great work done to fight off Henry
Africa's and (rumour has it) Starbucks, it seems a
shame that Tesco's is able to just open another store
round the corner without a bit of a fight, especially
as we already have one in West St, only about 5 mins
away. For instance, I would have thought the Co-op was
a better fit if we are going to get a mini-supermarket
(greener credentials and ethos, for instance).
Totally agree Debbie... All the best George George Ferguson TOBACCO FACTORY The West Countrys most enterprising theatre The Times Raleigh Road Southville Bristol BS3 1TF Website http://www.tobaccofactory.com Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
it can't possibly be plausible to allow a tesco on north street when there is
already one on west street. this needs to be argued, so....who do we argue to?
also, i expect these new flats won't have any parking facilities...
Hi Esther
Alas it's only too plausible that they'll mindlessly grant permission for the
Tesco behemoth to park 5 minutes from another branch. At present in Broadmead I
can count 4 within 5 minutes of each other, all selling the same dreary
overpriced cloned creme freche. With, I think, 2 more on the way in the new
'hooray for slavery' broadmead - or whatever they'll be calling it. It's the
way they operate to squeeze out the few remaining independents; and pretty
brazen too. And then they have the nerve to bang on about 'consumer choice'.
aagh!
A proper greengrocers - like the glorious Turners' on East St (may it live
forever) or a co-op as somebody else pertinently suggested, would be infinitely
better for the local community. There's an Aldi 2 minutes walk from the site,
so it's not like North St lacks supermarkets... how can we REALLY stop them
from turning our local area into wall-to-wall choice-free identikit marts?
Steph Wardle
ok, so, what can i do? who can I speak to? someone on this forum, please can
you give me some information on what i should do as a local resident?
Glad to see a lot of opposition on here! I echo
Esther's question: what can we do?
Although I'm sure people here are far more
well-informed than I am, my understanding is that even
though the development has A1 (retail) consent (no
doubt based on the fact that it was a shop before),
there is still some sort of planning permission to be
granted rather than just any shop being able to move
in. Am I right?
How about some adverse publicity in the press showing
local opposition to Tesco's - using our councillors
and residents?
Debbie
In answer to your question about what planning permision would be needed the
development will have already been granted planning permision for retail (A1)
some time ago. The only other plnning permissions that might be needed are for
basic things like shop signage. as sean said in his earlier post the planning
system differentiates between basic uses e.g. cafes, offices and shops but not
between who runs them so no difference is made between a large chain and a
small independent.
There are lots of ways to oppose any schem and i suspect strong opposition
would be something most likely be the thing that Tesco would like least (but I
wouldn't expect them to just roll over - it would need to be prolonged and well
organised).
Before starting anything I wonder if anyone has been able to firmly establish
if Tesco are definately planning to open here?
As an aside I wonder if any of the older residents (if there are any on the
forum) can confirm that there used to be a Tesco on North Street? I think it
closed shortly before I moved to the area but from what i've been told I think
it used to be where the Carpet shop/helebes is near the Luckwell Road
<email obscured>> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:21:23
-0700> From: <email obscured>> Subject: [GB-Forum] Tesco's in North
Street> To: <email obscured>> > Glad to see a lot of
opposition on here! I echo> Esther's question: what can we do?> > Although I'm
sure people here are far more> well-informed than I am, my understanding is
that even> though the development has A1 (retail) consent (no> doubt based on
the fact that it was a shop before),> there is still some sort of planning
permission to be> granted rather than just any shop being able to move> in. Am
I right?> > How about some adverse publicity in the press showing> local
opposition to Tesco's - using our councillors> and residents? > > Deb> > >
Have just asked them - nothing ventured and all that. Waiting for them to come
back to me and will let you know when I know something. Matthew's quite
correct re planning, although my understanding is that they would need
permission if they wanted a hot food counter. Tesco would, of course, also
need a premises license presuming they wanted to sell alcohol, so there are
avenues for objection should people wish to. I understand there used to be a
Tesco near Bristol South Swimming Pool, but can't remember it myself.
I have been in touch with the developer who is usually
quite forthcoming about these matters but I have not
had the promised return on my call. I have asked
Charlie to ring but if Sean would like the details I
can pass them on to him.
hello mathew
like everything everybody starts opposing things when it's to late,we have been
opposing through the cooperage group with the help of our local councillors
charlie and sean the building of 140 flats on and around the old enterprise
site on coronation road.this is a small band of residents in the area, but it's
been nearly 2 years the group as been formed anybody interested in joining us
please feel free to get in touch.
>>> Matthew Symonds <<email obscured>> 04/24/08 10:48 AM >>>
Debbie
In answer to your question about what planning permision would be needed the
development will have already been granted planning permision for retail (A1)
some time ago. The only other plnning permissions that might be needed are for
basic things like shop signage. as sean said in his earlier post the planning
system differentiates between basic uses e.g. cafes, offices and shops but not
between who runs them so no difference is made between a large chain and a
small independent.
There are lots of ways to oppose any schem and i suspect strong opposition
would be something most likely be the thing that Tesco would like least (but I
wouldn't expect them to just roll over - it would need to be prolonged and well
organised).
Before starting anything I wonder if anyone has been able to firmly establish
if Tesco are definately planning to open here?
As an aside I wonder if any of the older residents (if there are any on the
forum) can confirm that there used to be a Tesco on North Street? I think it
closed shortly before I moved to the area but from what i've been told I think
it used to be where the Carpet shop/helebes is near the Luckwell Road
<email obscured>> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:21:23
-0700> From: <email obscured>> Subject: [GB-Forum] Tesco's in North
Street> To: <email obscured>> > Glad to see a lot of
opposition on here! I echo> Esther's question: what can we do?> > Although I'm
sure people here are far more> well-informed than I am, my understanding is
that even> though the development has A1 (retail) consent (no> doubt based on
the fact that it was a shop before),> there is still some sort of planning
permission to be> granted rather than just any shop being able to move> in. Am
I right?> > How about some adverse publicity in the press showing> local oppo
sition to Tesco's - using our councillors> and residents? > > Deb> > >
Sorry, been working this am, but have rung Firmac. I will let you know if/when
I do.
Charlie Bolton
Green Party Councillor
Southville
>>> Cecilia Weightman <<email obscured>> 04/24/08 1:52 PM >>>
I have been in touch with the developer who is usually
quite forthcoming about these matters but I have not
had the promised return on my call. I have asked
Charlie to ring but if Sean would like the details I
can pass them on to him.
I have just spoken to the developer and their spokesperson has confirmed that
there is to be a Tesco on the site. He explained that the development became
more complicated than envisaged and that allowing Tesco on to the site was
purely a financial consideration. He has said that he does hope that it will
help bring people into that part of the street - but there you have it - we
have Tesco on North Street.
Does this mean that the consultation stage has already passed? If nothing else it going to make the road at that part of North Street more congested and dangerous as it has done on West Street. Richard> To: <email obscured>> From: <email obscured>> Subject: Re: [GB-Forum] Tesco's in North Street> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:54:01 +1200> > I have just spoken to the developer and their spokesperson has confirmed that there is to be a Tesco on the site. He explained that the development became more complicated than envisaged and that allowing Tesco on to the site was purely a financial consideration. He has said that he does hope that it will help bring people into that part of the street - but there you have it - we have Tesco on North Street.> > Cecilia Weightman> > Info about Cecilia Weightman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/ceciliaweightman> > This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4PA38AMMDnhjZXnQ2InD13>
The Application for 166-174 North Street appears to be 06/05525 mixed use and retail (19 apartments with 50% parking) Try this link or go direct to uk planning and look up England , Bristol, planning applications, using that case number. http://www.ukplanning.com/ukp/findCaseFile.do?appType=planning+folder&appNumber=06%2F05525 Bristol Civic Society objected with a few others at the appropriate moment which was Jan / Feb 2007. There is no mention of Tesco as an end-user at that time. (And from memory no Tesco yet established adjacent St Monica's in West Street either). The retail element makes it mixed use. This body of contemporary objection to the whole edifice is basically on the grounds of the structure being too big and having no amenity, other grounds are stated however. Amenity was "bought" in planning terms through section 106 monies amounting to less than the likely value of one apartment. For those who live there, there will be no amenity. But the designers will argue there's 100m2 of decking on the shop roof no doubt. Rotor that among 19 flats. The scheme was passed mainly on sustainability grounds, and with previous retail use established. It is a rather narrow view of Sustainability (IE density is good, the government says so in its latest advice) There are conditions. The planning history indicates the maximum potential of the site had been explored through earlier applications, refusals and appeals. It is essentially the biggest scheme which could be got away with on the plot at that moment. Its a DCC decision (I.e. councillors) with officers recommending approval. 28th February 2007. Tesco's smaller outlets are not that good. ASDA will beat them into a cocked hat on both price and range, and Southville Deli on local quality. Other local retail outlets are available. So Tesco's strongest suit is convenience. (proximity to a growing population of flat-dwellers in central North Street and Myrtle street) and hours of business, which tend to be very long. Whether they are prepared to operate at a loss to deliberately damage competition I don't know. Tesco will have to go to the council for signage permissions. Whether they will contemptuously install it first and ask permission after as some other aggressive roll-out chains do remains to be seen. That is the moment the planners expect to be made formally aware of such an end-user proposal. This combination of "small-Tesco" and "luxury flats" happens quite often now and there are conflicts in other locations. Deliveries can block traffic and wake up residents, depending on when they occur. I trust this is reasonably factual and objective information, you'll have to make your own checks. It wont please all of you I dare say! all best Stephen
In reply to Matthew Symonds's aside:
That carpet shop on the roundabout was certainly once a supermarket, but I'm
pretty sure it wasn't a Tesco when i lived around here 20 years ago - was it
Gateway?? Gateway disappeared from the UK supermarket scene years ago though so
it could well have been a Tesco in between while i was away.
Matthew Symonds wrote:
>As an aside I wonder if any of the older residents (if there are any on the
>forum) can confirm that there used to be a Tesco on North Street? I think it
>closed shortly before I moved to the area but from what i've been told I think
>it used to be where the Carpet shop/helebes is near the Luckwell Road
Oh dear, i guess i must be one of "the older residents"! I'm still under 40,
honest... not ready for Monica Wills House quite yet.
I agree, I think there used to be a Gateway supermarket where the carpet
shop now is. And there used to be a Tesco store where Wilkinson now is (on
East Street). But maybe - as an "older resident" - my memory isn't what it
once was!
John P.
...actually isn't the shop on the roundabout opposite Luckwell Road a bed shop
not a carpet shop? I'm confused now... I don't think my memory is what it once
was either, but it's hard to be sure as i can remember what it once was.
PS when was the East Street ex-Tesco now-Wilkinson rooftop carpark closed and
why? That ramp is a total eyesore.
(perhaps i should start a new topic for that.. but perhaps i should search the
list archive first)
Thanks for all the clarifications about where Tesco and Fine Fare was. Can I appologise for anyone who offended by my incorrect use of the term 'older residents', what I meant to say was 'people who've lived in the area longer' which clearly has very little to do with anyones actual age. Hope that clears things <email obscured>> From: <email obscured>> To: <email obscured>> Subject: Re: [GB-Forum] Tesco's in North Street> Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:36:32 +0100> > I agree, I think there used to be a Gateway supermarket where the carpet > shop now is. And there used to be a Tesco store where Wilkinson now is (on > East Street). But maybe - as an "older resident" - my memory isn't what it > once was!> > John P.> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roger H" <<email obscured>>> To: "Greater Bedminster Neighbourhood Forum" > <<email obscured>>> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 8:18 AM> Subject: Re: [GB-Forum] Tesco's in North Street> > > > In reply to Matthew Symonds's aside:> >> > That carpet shop on the roundabout was certainly once a supermarket, but > > I'm pretty sure it wasn't a Tesco when i lived around here 20 years ago - > > was it Gateway?? Gateway disappeared from the UK supermarket scene years > > ago though so it could well have been a Tesco in between while i was away.> >> > Matthew Symonds wrote:> >>As an aside I wonder if any of the older residents (if there are any on > >>the> >>forum) can confirm that there used to be a Tesco on North Street? I think > >>it> >>closed shortly before I moved to the area but from what i've been told I > >>think> >>it used to be where the Carpet shop/helebes is near the Luckwell Road> >> > Oh dear, i guess i must be one of "the older residents"! I'm still under > > 40, honest... not ready for Monica Wills House quite yet.> >> > Roger H> > Bedminster, Bristol> > Info about Roger H: > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/6gXiPBFOTbJDV0PYEVT9WE> >> > This topic's messages may be viewed at: > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/vemACOSID13GPjxDfJNbF> >
Having been born in Bedminster and lived here all my life (47 years) I have
seen where I live recover in the last 10 years from the business
closures/relocations in the 70’s & early 80’s.
The shopping areas of East Street & North Street were very busy places when I
was growing up and sustained local independent businesses along side the
nationals such as Tesco and Sainsburys.
The volume of people stopped coming here to shop when Wills moved out and Asda
moved in and Colodense & Robinsons closed their factories on West Street. This
happening along with the small Sainsburys moving from East Street and becoming
the beast on Winterstoke Road and the same with Tesco from East Street to West
Town Lane, combined to stop people venturing up & down East Street.
However our neighboured has survived better than many others around the
country, which in the main has been down to its location and ability to adapt
and change.
My concern is that our newer neighbours are trying to preserve the area at that
moment in time when they moved here, or they have some rose tinted view of a
mythical past drawn from the pages of a Reece Winston book. The one constant
has been the fact that Southville has had to change since it was build over 100
years ago and that it remains a decent place to live.
I am in favour of the new Tesco, it will cut down on those trips to Asda or
Sainsburys to pick up small amounts of shopping, items we currently do not
purchase on North Street (cloned crème freche, yum yum). Anything that helps to
create an alternative to using our cars particularly for short journeys has got
to be welcomed and to be honest my family and friends who live in the area
think the same.
there is already a tesco about 300 m from that site, is that too far to walk to
pick up essentials? i think also, though, a lot of people who dont want the
tesco (and i inlcude myself i this) do so partially because it is considered
innapropriate, but also because we dont want huge companies taking sole control
of what we consume, we want local produce and local businesses where possible.
i think the problem of traffic parking around the tescos might be huge too, as
already shown on west street
I am from London and have only lived in Southville for 6 years so I am a
relative newcomer. I obviously don't know what North St was like before, but my
neighbour tells me that North St was a busy shopping st, infinitely better than
the boarded up shops and takeaways we have now.
I don't have any past knowledge to draw on but I know what I would like my
community to be like now and it should be something with individuality, not
endless boring design flats built to maximise developer's profit and adding
nothing to the landscape. Yes please shops, but not the same old, same old
chains which are the same in West St, North St, Exeter, Reading... We have one
round the corner, do we really need another, I am willing to forgo fromage
frais at all hours within 2 minutes from my door if it means I could have a
fishmonger, italian deli, greek supermarket, or another independant shop. Yes
shops, yes housing but can't we just stop the big guys before they totally take
over?
Hi Nick and all, I'm the exact opposite - only been in Bedminster 3 years - so that makes me one of the newer neighbours. I understand where you are coming from, but just to say that although I can't speak for everyone in my position, I'm not looking at North Street with rose tinted glasses. Change is inevitable, but its the type of change that's important. I think I just have a different point of view on what I see as desireable change. I would like to see Bedminster and Southville change so that there are more community facilities, more leisure facilities, more local, independent shops, more cycling facilities, more locally generated renewable energy, more recyclying, more growing fruit and veg close by and a better mix of housing, so that we have a healthier, happier community. I don't think that's looking at the past, more looking at a different future from the one that we might end up with. I don't feally feel that we (including myself) have a well argued and evidenced vision of what we want our area to look like in 5 or 10 years. Probably this work has been done and I'm just not aware of it, but the opposition to Tescos is a small example of a clash of visions of the future. As I say, I haven't had chance to gather the evidence but this is why I think Tescos is less preferable than having a number of smaller, local , independent shops. 1. More competition. If you only have a few major retailers then it is easier to rig the market - see the latest Office of Fair Tradig investigation into rigging of tobacco prices. 2. More choice. Supermarkets say they offer choice, but having only around 10 major retailers in the UK doesn't look like a very wide range to choose from. 3. Unfair competition and higher prices. Big chains have the financial resources to sell below cost in order to put competitiors out of business before raising prices again. There's also a perception that supermarkets are cheaper than local, independent stores but I don't know where the evidence for that comes from. Certainly I have managed to buy fruit and veg from the Ashton Fruit Shop cheaper than if I had gone to Sainsburys for example. 4. A stronger local community. The difference between Aldi's penny-pinching attitude to its car parking facilities and the great work some of the independent traders have done on reducing plastic bag use on North Street speaks volumes. Although supermarkets have store managers they have little authority to change practices in response to local demands. 5. Keeping money in the local economy. Smaller local shops tend to have shorter supply chains so money stays within the local or regional economy. Companies like Aldi, Lidl, Tescos etc. extract profits from the community and send them to shareholders and senior managers in London, New York, Frankfurt or wherever. In return they say they supply services and employment but we already have the services they are claiming to be able to supply and the employment they offer is low skilled and consequently low paid. Would you rather have people employed to work on a till or people who have set up and run their own business, with all the skills that entails? I'm sure there are more arguments but those are the big ones from my point of view. I think we should fight Tesco not to be negative and to try to turn back the clock to an age that never really existed, but because we have a vision of how great our local area could be without them. Cheers, Matt > To: <email obscured>> From: <email obscured>> Subject: Re: [GB-Forum] Tesco's in North Street> Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:36:02 +1200> > Having been born in Bedminster and lived here all my life (47 years) I have seen where I live recover in the last 10 years from the business closures/relocations in the 70s & early 80s.> The shopping areas of East Street & North Street were very busy places when I was growing up and sustained local independent businesses along side the nationals such as Tesco and Sainsburys.> > The volume of people stopped coming here to shop when Wills moved out and Asda moved in and Colodense & Robinsons closed their factories on West Street. This happening along with the small Sainsburys moving from East Street and becoming the beast on Winterstoke Road and the same with Tesco from East Street to West Town Lane, combined to stop people venturing up & down East Street.> > However our neighboured has survived better than many others around the country, which in the main has been down to its location and ability to adapt and change. > > My concern is that our newer neighbours are trying to preserve the area at that moment in time when they moved here, or they have some rose tinted view of a mythical past drawn from the pages of a Reece Winston book. The one constant has been the fact that Southville has had to change since it was build over 100 years ago and that it remains a decent place to live. > > I am in favour of the new Tesco, it will cut down on those trips to Asda or Sainsburys to pick up small amounts of shopping, items we currently do not purchase on North Street (cloned crme freche, yum yum). Anything that helps to create an alternative to using our cars particularly for short journeys has got to be welcomed and to be honest my family and friends who live in the area think the same.> > Nick Bridge> Southville, Bristol> Info about Nick Bridge: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/nickbridge> > This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2zlDRESeEwFvCBQJjGPTEx>
Hilary I strongly agree re the independents but have to say that North Street lost it when Imperial Tobacco moved out about 30 years ago and now is a lot better than it was a decade ago when it was on its uppers. There are a handful of survivors from the old days. You and others may be interested in this and other research by the New Economics Foundation: http://www.neweconomics.org/gen/marketsvssupermarkets220506.aspx All the best George George Ferguson TOBACCO FACTORY Strike a Light for Independents! Raleigh Road Southville Bristol BS3 1TF Website http://www.tobaccofactory.com Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
Several people have suggested they would like to see more shops on North
Street that are independent, which I agree with, but I wonder how many know
that greedy landlords on the street have in recent times doubled their
rents? Not only is this likely to force some of the existing independent
shops to close, but it will also dissuade others from opening up. If this
trend continues, it will only be the likes of Tesco that will be able to
afford to operate in North Street.
John P.
Going back a couple of steps to who was where earlier, while the chain
stores were looking for bigger outlets on new sites there appears to have
been more control. If one took a "Hotel"-building analogy from Monopoly, and
the big outlet was then the goal, then at least there were rules, including
possibly trading in some existing "houses" in exchange for a "Hotel"
permission. In the present phase of the game the object of the game appears
to be to build a first single "house" on each new street owned. For those
not familiar with Monopoly I'd better drop this analogy before it gets too
strained however. :)
As someone commented about rose tinted spectacles earlier, the 1990's were
not that great for shopping, remember Sunday (not-)trading laws. The big
stores including DIY simply did not open, although some shelves were stacked
behind closed doors. But if you had no meat by 6pm on a Saturday, that was
it until Monday. Defrost something from the freezer or go out for Sunday
lunch! Of course families had a day off together without the teen-Saturday
job or even mums week-day-job overspilling into compulsory rotored
antisocial hours. It was the very small shops, essentially Newsagents and
filling stations which could open on Sunday and sell tobacco and other
limited food lines (~but not alcohol).
Who was where? Gateway were taken over by Somerfield so if the branches were
operational as Gateway
at the time, they were rebranded Somerfield, or closed. I cant remember the
North Street bit of this, just Clifton.
Top end of East street was Tesco with the spiral ramp and roof car park off
dean lane this became Wilkinson with out the car parking. I think Tesco
closed as a condition of opening the larger store in Brislington direction.
By the same token there was a Sainsbury's in St Catherine's Place at the
other end of East Street and that had to close as a condition for
Winterstoke Road Superstore I believe.
There was a Branch of Kwick Save in East Street as well which reminded me of
East Berlin in the days of the Wall. BUT ASDA branches were pretty similar
"up-north" in the early 1980's. Dark cash-only sheds with no ceilings and a
Lady cashing cheques with a bankers card in a booth on the way in! Never
mind mobile phones, we didn't have ATM's!
I think Kwick Save took over the Sainsbury's premises and looked instantly
more upmarket as a result.
Big change arrived with ASDA Bedminster opening in what, 1988? As a
superstore from
day one, and taking cheques above your card limit!
And that was followed by high interest rates and fairly major recession in
early 1990's.
So Aldi arrived after the 1993 factory demolitions in about 1995, taking
cash only again, with the ATM at NatWest being handy for some.
North Street currently has a lot of food and cafe outlets and charity shops
also. Shops selling specialist stuff have a habit of folding at the end of a
first year lease. Some of these have been quite interesting stores but just
made trading errors including overstocking, poor location, or poor market
research. (etc) I'm sure getting it wrong is soooo easy, and getting it
right is an art, or science, or mixture of both.
It did have a lot of Chinese takeaways also but they were generally pricey
and poor until Dim Sum arrived and seemingly blew the others away on
quality. And there was a shell petrol station on north street, was there
not?
The odd thing however is that for earlier generations, north street had
trams from the 1880's until WW2 and was directly link to the town centre by
tram
time for bed said Zebedee!
all best from the land of nod.
Stephen
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