From:
Jo Nean
Date:
Apr 06 10:14 UTC
Short link
I heard recently that Tesco have put in a bid for the old Co-Op site on
London Road. By the sound of it this will be a gigantic superstore and more,
basically a Tesco's version of the Sainsbury's New England Quarter. This
sounds to me like the final nail in the coffin of the whole London Road area
along with The Open Market, but more than that it will mean clone town
Tescopoly <http://www.tescopoly.org/> creeping it's way into central
Brighton.
Does anyone have any information regarding this / ideas on what can be done
to stop it / sources for more information?
From:
Tony Cook
Date:
Apr 06 15:24 UTC
Short link
The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
Quote:
The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
generated?
The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
Unquote.
Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
and more trees please.
Tony C
From:
Glenn Williams
Date:
Apr 07 03:46 UTC
Short link
This is terrible and should be stopped. Are we going to end up with
another soulless ghetto like the development around Sainsbury.
Jo Nean wrote:
> I heard recently that Tesco have put in a bid for the old Co-Op site on
> London Road. By the sound of it this will be a gigantic superstore and more,
> basically a Tesco's version of the Sainsbury's New England Quarter. This
> sounds to me like the final nail in the coffin of the whole London Road area
> along with The Open Market, but more than that it will mean clone town
> Tescopoly <http://www.tescopoly.org/> creeping it's way into central
> Brighton.
>
> Does anyone have any information regarding this / ideas on what can be done
> to stop it / sources for more information?
>
> Thanks,
> Jo.
>
> Jo Nean
>
> Info about Jo Nean: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/jonean
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/jXyirZ99H7gRuzArlHM37
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
From:
Dan Jellinek
Date:
Apr 07 08:56 UTC
Short link
Yes, this is depressing, but has a ring of inevitability about it.
I suppose what is needed is a scheme to revamp the small independent shops
around there .
There is a scheme to redevelop the open market, which is apparently still in
gestation, after a couple of years - this will have its pros and cons no
doubt but whacking a big Tesco's next to it will probably not help attract
people to any new market development. Then again, it might...
The square outside the jubilee library sums up the modern approach, doesn't
it - calthough the library itself is nice, and the square, they are boxed in
by cold, sterile buildings which seem to have to be there to bring in PFI
revenue. I suppose councils these days simply don;t like to allocate large
sums to public building projects without a private sector payback, and can
argue that it saves public funds for other social uses. But the result is a
missed opportunity - a larger square outside the library, without that hotel
and the pizza express, could have been a real community space for markets
and other activities. Instead it feels like a shopping mall. No doubt that
is the way London Road will head, asnd the old pier, etc etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Williams" <<email obscured>>
To: "Jo Nean" <<email obscured>>; "BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2008 7:21 PM
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
This is terrible and should be stopped. Are we going to end up with
another soulless ghetto like the development around Sainsbury.
Jo Nean wrote:
> I heard recently that Tesco have put in a bid for the old Co-Op site on
> London Road. By the sound of it this will be a gigantic superstore and
> more,
> basically a Tesco's version of the Sainsbury's New England Quarter. This
> sounds to me like the final nail in the coffin of the whole London Road
> area
> along with The Open Market, but more than that it will mean clone town
> Tescopoly <http://www.tescopoly.org/> creeping it's way into central
> Brighton.
>
> Does anyone have any information regarding this / ideas on what can be
> done
> to stop it / sources for more information?
>
> Thanks,
> Jo.
>
> Jo Nean
>
> Info about Jo Nean: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/jonean
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/jXyirZ99H7gRuzArlHM37
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
Glenn Williams
Elm Grove Area, Pavilion
Info about Glenn Williams:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/glennwilliams
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3p1H5xYYdmZ9jFCMKw8O7W
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
From:
Derek Parkinson
Date:
Apr 07 09:25 UTC
Short link
I agree. Those 2 buildings (the pizza place & the hotel) could be a chunk of
Docklands plonked down in the middle of Brighton. Why can't the council
can't insist on a more individual character for buildings, more in keeping
with the area, history etc?
>
> The square outside the jubilee library sums up the modern approach,
> doesn't
> it - calthough the library itself is nice, and the square, they are boxed
> in
> by cold, sterile buildings which seem to have to be there to bring in PFI
> revenue. I suppose councils these days simply don;t like to allocate large
> sums to public building projects without a private sector payback, and can
> argue that it saves public funds for other social uses. But the result is
> a
> missed opportunity - a larger square outside the library, without that
> hotel
> and the pizza express, could have been a real community space for markets
> and other activities. Instead it feels like a shopping mall. No doubt that
> is the way London Road will head, asnd the old pier, etc etc.
>
>
>
From:
Max Cooter
Date:
Apr 08 07:29 UTC
Short link
This was reported in the Argus a few weeks ago.
I know that Tesco seem to be unstoppable in their bid for world
domination but I wonder whether they will have their own way on this
one. For a start, the new council leader, Mary Mears, might have a few
things to say about any plans that affect the financial viability of her
two market stalls. But also, this council and the previous
administration have been looking at ways to reduce traffic coming into
central Brighton, a massive supermarket on the main artery into town
would immediately add another level of congestion.
In addition, there are several supermarkets in the area already:
Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Iceland, the new Aldi and the Lewes Road Co-op
not too far away. How would it regenerate the area to put one building
to use while forcing the closure of two, three or four more? And that's
not counting the small traders who would be put out of business. They'd
also need to develop well beyond the Co-op store itself - probably
taking over the bike shop that stands where AA Baker did, the old chapel
and the pound shop that's there.
Personally, I like Tony C's suggestion below - I certainly feel that the
Open Market should be a thriving area not the almost shameful secret
that it is. I'm sure that the council would prefer a tenant other than
Tesco - my bet is that they'd love John Lewis to come to Brighton - but
we all know that Tesco have deep pockets and powerful lawyers so it
wouldn't astonish me to see them winning in the end.
Tony Cook wrote:
> The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
>
> http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
>
> Quote:
>
> The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
>
> Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
> will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
> Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
> Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
> that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
> they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
>
> How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
> already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
> generated?
>
> The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
> the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
>
> The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
> go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
> look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
> consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
> will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
>
> Unquote.
>
> Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
> including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
> large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
> market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
> resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
> services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
> around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
> space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
> educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
> transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
> to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
> Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
> and more trees please.
>
> Tony C
>
> Tony Cook
>
> Info about Tony Cook: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tonycook
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4DpexPgie8RzwBngyxC2L2
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
From:
Joyce Edmond-Smith
Date:
Apr 08 11:41 UTC
Short link
Lets be clear - Tesco's would have to put in a planning application. This would
be
decided by the Planning Committee (not the Council Leader) and would have to be
dealt
with under planning legislation. Once an application is in people can approve
or object
(this is the opportunity to develop opposition - not by petitions - objections
are much
stronger when written individually and based on planning issues). The
development
control officer will make a recommendation to the planning committee and the
Planning
Committee will decide to accept the recommendation or not . Any decision will
be
expected to be made on the basis of planning issues :- existing Local
Development Plan,
traffic considerations, other planning policies , objections etc. If an
application is
refused the application has the right to appeal (an often not known injustice
of the
planning system is that objectors have no right of appeal) . Should the appeal
be
upheld the local authority usually has to meet the costs which can heavy -
Care will be
taken therefore that decisions meet with planning guidelines.
--- Max Cooter <<email obscured>> wrote:
> This was reported in the Argus a few weeks ago.
>
> I know that Tesco seem to be unstoppable in their bid for world
> domination but I wonder whether they will have their own way on this
> one. For a start, the new council leader, Mary Mears, might have a few
> things to say about any plans that affect the financial viability of her
> two market stalls. But also, this council and the previous
> administration have been looking at ways to reduce traffic coming into
> central Brighton, a massive supermarket on the main artery into town
> would immediately add another level of congestion.
>
> In addition, there are several supermarkets in the area already:
> Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Iceland, the new Aldi and the Lewes Road Co-op
> not too far away. How would it regenerate the area to put one building
> to use while forcing the closure of two, three or four more? And that's
> not counting the small traders who would be put out of business. They'd
> also need to develop well beyond the Co-op store itself - probably
> taking over the bike shop that stands where AA Baker did, the old chapel
> and the pound shop that's there.
>
> Personally, I like Tony C's suggestion below - I certainly feel that the
> Open Market should be a thriving area not the almost shameful secret
> that it is. I'm sure that the council would prefer a tenant other than
> Tesco - my bet is that they'd love John Lewis to come to Brighton - but
> we all know that Tesco have deep pockets and powerful lawyers so it
> wouldn't astonish me to see them winning in the end.
>
>
>
> Tony Cook wrote:
> > The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
> >
> > http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
> >
> > Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
> > will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
> > Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
> > Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
> > that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
> > they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
> >
> > How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
> > already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
> > generated?
> >
> > The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
> > the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
> >
> > The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
> > go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
> > look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
> > consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
> > will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
> >
> > Unquote.
> >
> > Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
> > including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
> > large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
> > market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
> > resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
> > services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
> > around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
> > space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
> > educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
> > transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
> > to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
> > Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
> > and more trees please.
> >
> > Tony C
> >
> > Tony Cook
> >
> > Info about Tony Cook: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tonycook
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4DpexPgie8RzwBngyxC2L2
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> > in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Max Cooter
> Coldean, Brighton
> Info about Max Cooter: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/maxcooter
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1rTu810UGebY35KZ8brLpZ
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
Joyce Edmond-Smith
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
From:
Keith Taylor
Date:
Apr 08 18:01 UTC
Short link
What Joyce hasn't mentioned is the role the council plays in
setting the policies for local development. The Local Plan she mentions is
now being replaced by the Local Development Framework - a
collection of studies and policy statements.
Part of the 'core' documents that form the framework, and one especially
relevant in this case, is the 2006 Retail Study, which the last Labour
Council commissioned and approved before they were voted out of office.
The study is important because it can be used to justify planning
applications for new shops.
The 30,000 study was vehemently opposed by the Greens. It predicted a
1.2bn (73%) increase in spending on non-food goods in the city between
2005 and 2016. Additionally the study suggests an extra 144m (17.5%) will
be spent on food and drink in the same period.
To service that extra demand the study predicts a need for massive growth
in shops in the city. An extra five superstores the size of the Lewes Road
Sainsburys and another whole Churchill Squares-worth of shops for
non-food items would be needed.
We disputed the assumptions made by the study a 9% population growth was
used, whereas the official estimate for the city is 6%. Additionally the
extra spending was far beyond the official estimates of wage increases, so
much of the spend would be on borrowed money..
The study replaced an earlier (1999) work which said there was no
quantative need for new shops, but a qualitative need could be argued. The
2006 study opened the door for vast expansion of the retail sector. The
New Labour government required councils' to update Retail Study's, and B&H
chose Experian to write the study.
At the time Cllr Georgia Wrighton (Green, Hanover & Elm Grove ward), said,
in opposing the adoption of the Study, This is madness Greens believe
theres more to life than shopping!
Given the increasing credit crunch there is even less reason to approve
plans for big shops selling stuff we dont really need to people who cant
really afford to buy them.
There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and leisure
facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made with the Open
Market redevelopment and I believe theres real enthusiasm and experience
which should enable a strong alternative to clone town Britain claiming
another victory.
Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
Keith Taylor
City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
Convenor of Green Councillors Group
tel/fax 01273 291165
Joyce Edmond-Smith <<email obscured>>
08/04/2008 12:41
To: Max Cooter <<email obscured>>, "BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>
cc:
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
Lets be clear - Tesco's would have to put in a planning application. This
would be
decided by the Planning Committee (not the Council Leader) and would have
to be dealt
with under planning legislation. Once an application is in people can
approve or object
(this is the opportunity to develop opposition - not by petitions -
objections are much
stronger when written individually and based on planning issues). The
development
control officer will make a recommendation to the planning committee and
the Planning
Committee will decide to accept the recommendation or not . Any decision
will be
expected to be made on the basis of planning issues :- existing Local
Development Plan,
traffic considerations, other planning policies , objections etc. If an
application is
refused the application has the right to appeal (an often not known
injustice of the
planning system is that objectors have no right of appeal) . Should the
appeal be
upheld the local authority usually has to meet the costs which can heavy -
Care will be
taken therefore that decisions meet with planning guidelines.
--- Max Cooter <<email obscured>> wrote:
> This was reported in the Argus a few weeks ago.
>
> I know that Tesco seem to be unstoppable in their bid for world
> domination but I wonder whether they will have their own way on this
> one. For a start, the new council leader, Mary Mears, might have a few
> things to say about any plans that affect the financial viability of her
> two market stalls. But also, this council and the previous
> administration have been looking at ways to reduce traffic coming into
> central Brighton, a massive supermarket on the main artery into town
> would immediately add another level of congestion.
>
> In addition, there are several supermarkets in the area already:
> Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Iceland, the new Aldi and the Lewes Road Co-op
> not too far away. How would it regenerate the area to put one building
> to use while forcing the closure of two, three or four more? And that's
> not counting the small traders who would be put out of business. They'd
> also need to develop well beyond the Co-op store itself - probably
> taking over the bike shop that stands where AA Baker did, the old chapel
> and the pound shop that's there.
>
> Personally, I like Tony C's suggestion below - I certainly feel that the
> Open Market should be a thriving area not the almost shameful secret
> that it is. I'm sure that the council would prefer a tenant other than
> Tesco - my bet is that they'd love John Lewis to come to Brighton - but
> we all know that Tesco have deep pockets and powerful lawyers so it
> wouldn't astonish me to see them winning in the end.
>
>
>
> Tony Cook wrote:
> > The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
> >
> > http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
> >
> > Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
> > will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
> > Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
> > Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
> > that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
> > they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
> >
> > How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
> > already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
> > generated?
> >
> > The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
> > the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
> >
> > The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
> > go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
> > look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
> > consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
> > will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
> >
> > Unquote.
> >
> > Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
> > including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
> > large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
> > market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
> > resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
> > services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
> > around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
> > space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
> > educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
> > transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
> > to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
> > Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
> > and more trees please.
> >
> > Tony C
> >
> > Tony Cook
> >
> > Info about Tony Cook: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tonycook
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4DpexPgie8RzwBngyxC2L2
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> > in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Max Cooter
> Coldean, Brighton
> Info about Max Cooter: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/maxcooter
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1rTu810UGebY35KZ8brLpZ
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
Joyce Edmond-Smith
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
Joyce Edmond-Smith
Info about Joyce Edmond-Smith:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/joyceedmond-smith
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3m050SIMMnWxLLacxvHm4g
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Notice to recipient:
The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information
which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which is prohibited by
law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, please note
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please
notify the sender immediately. Thank you in anticipation of your co-operation.
You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
necessary.
From:
Tony Cook
Date:
Apr 08 21:33 UTC
Short link
Interesting ... presumably the mounting credit squeeze, not to mention
escalating food and energy costs due to 'climate change', aren't going
to affect our shopping habits - or at least not according to the 2006
Retail Study? Gates and bolting horses spring to mind for some reason.
When I returned to Brighton back in the 80's I was particularly struck
by the shops, their sheer variety. Catering for the long tail of
consumer demand. Perhaps no stores for "the working bucaneer" but it
was only a matter of time before we had our equivalent. Outside of the
North Laine today's shopping experience is an insipid and pale
comparison. So where did it all go? No doubt gradually priced-off the
streets in the wake of economic downturns, facilitating waves of
colonisation by the chains - with another wave due shortly.
Until such time as we rediscover the 'vision thing' with regards to
planning the town we wish to live in, why not convert the Co-op store
into an indoors market and provide a haven for local independent
traders to regain a toe-hold on our retail sector? Personally I'd
constitute the project as a Co-operative Consortium, perhaps paying
the 'Co-op' a rent until such time as outright ownership is possible.
Whilst the spending power of consumers continues to grow, the
down-side of the transnationals - geared to the bottom-line, syphoning
from rather than generating wealth for local economies - appears of
secondary importance. However perceptions of choice are changing. With
an eye on the future, as my favourite Sufi saying puts it: 'Trust in
Allah but tie your camel up first.'
Tony C
> There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and leisure
> facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made with the Open
> Market redevelopment and I believe theres real enthusiasm and experience
> which should enable a strong alternative to clone town Britain claiming
> another victory.
>
> Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
>
> Keith Taylor
>
From:
Max Cooter
Date:
Apr 09 06:58 UTC
Short link
Thanks Keith, that's a really interesting post. I certainly hadn't
realised that the local plan had been replaced - did the Argus report that?
There are a whole host of questions thrown up by this: why is the Local
Plan being replaced? Why did Experian assume a 9% growth instead of the
official 6%? How did it justify a 73% extra expenditure on non-food
items (I assume all figures are in real terms, if you don't take
inflation into account, these are quite modest rises)? That's a very
hefty rise - particularly given the long-expected credit crunch. Where
were these superstores be placed and where the traffic would go? Not
having seen the report, I'm only guessing but were some of the
assumptions based on a big increase in shoppers from outside B&H?
This report certainly throws new light on the Tesco proposal and
certainly could be used to justify granting planning. I still think it
would be crazy move and not one to benefit Brighton at all. Is the Open
Market redevelopment definitely going ahead? Could it be affected by the
proposed Tesco site?
<email obscured> wrote:
>
> What Joyce hasn't mentioned is the role the council plays in
> setting the policies for local development. The Local Plan she
> mentions is now being replaced by the Local
> Development Framework - a collection of studies and policy statements.
>
> Part of the 'core' documents that form the framework, and one
> especially relevant in this case, is the 2006 Retail Study, which the
> last Labour Council commissioned and approved before they were voted
> out of office. The study is important because it can be used to
> justify planning applications for new shops.
>
> The £30,000 study was vehemently opposed by the Greens. It predicted a
> £1.2bn (73%) increase in spending on non-food goods in the city
> between 2005 and 2016. Additionally the study suggests an extra £144m
> (17.5%) will be spent on food and drink in the same period.
>
> To service that extra demand the study predicts a need for massive
> growth in shops in the city. An extra five superstores the size of the
> Lewes Road Sainsbury’s and another whole Churchill Square’s-worth of
> shops for non-food items would be needed.
>
> We disputed the assumptions made by the study – a 9% population growth
> was used, whereas the official estimate for the city is 6%.
> Additionally the extra spending was far beyond the official estimates
> of wage increases, so much of the spend would be on borrowed money..
>
> The study replaced an earlier (1999) work which said there was no
> quantative need for new shops, but a qualitative need could be argued.
> The 2006 study opened the door for vast expansion of the retail
> sector. The New Labour government required councils' to update Retail
> Study's, and B&H chose Experian to write the study.
>
> At the time Cllr Georgia Wrighton (Green, Hanover & Elm Grove ward),
> said, in opposing the adoption of the Study, “This is madness – Greens
> believe there’s more to life than shopping!”
>
> Given the increasing credit crunch there is even less reason to
> approve plans for big shops selling stuff we don’t really need to
> people who can’t really afford to buy them.
>
> There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and
> leisure facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made
> with the Open Market redevelopment and I believe there’s real
> enthusiasm and experience which should enable a strong alternative to
> clone town Britain claiming another victory.
>
> Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
From:
Keith Taylor
Date:
Apr 09 09:18 UTC
Short link
Dear Max
1. The Local Development Framework (LDF) is replacing (rather than has
replaced) the Local Plan. This is a government requirement.
More details on the LDF at
http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/index.cfm?request=b1144784
More details on the Retail Study at
http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/index.cfm?request=c1159323
2. When I challenged planners over the assumptions over population growth
estimates being beyond those used by our own demographers and the
increased spending beyond the official wage projections I was told by
planning policy officers that these were 'industry norm' assumptions made
by consultants. When I queried why Experian (a company whose very
existence depends on increasing consumption), I was told they were the
market leaders in preparing retail studies. My comment that Experian would
have most to gain by talking the market up was drowned out by the
enthusiastic welcome given to the study by both Labour and Conservative
councillors.
3. BHCC is determined to get a new market developed. Just last week the
council agreed to a third and final extension to the 'lock-out' allowing
the Open Market Traders Association/Hyde Housing proposals to be
sharpened. There is now a Housing Association committed to deliver new
homes as an 'enabler' to pay for the new market, but several elements of
the existing proposal need further work. The extension is for another 8
months. If no satisfactory draft Heads of Terms are drawn up at the end of
the lock out period the council will seek other development partners
(possibly including Hyde) to deliver the project..
More details (it's Item 207) at
http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/index.cfm?request=c1107343&view=agenda&date=3%2DAPR%2D2008%2016%3A00&committee=Policy%20%26%20Resources%20Committee
Hope that helps
Keith Taylor
City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
Convenor of Green Councillors Group
tel/fax 01273 291165
Max Cooter <<email obscured>>
09/04/2008 07:55
To: "BH@forums" <<email obscured>>
cc:
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
Thanks Keith, that's a really interesting post. I certainly hadn't
realised that the local plan had been replaced - did the Argus report
that?
There are a whole host of questions thrown up by this: why is the Local
Plan being replaced? Why did Experian assume a 9% growth instead of the
official 6%? How did it justify a 73% extra expenditure on non-food
items (I assume all figures are in real terms, if you don't take
inflation into account, these are quite modest rises)? That's a very
hefty rise - particularly given the long-expected credit crunch. Where
were these superstores be placed and where the traffic would go? Not
having seen the report, I'm only guessing but were some of the
assumptions based on a big increase in shoppers from outside B&H?
This report certainly throws new light on the Tesco proposal and
certainly could be used to justify granting planning. I still think it
would be crazy move and not one to benefit Brighton at all. Is the Open
Market redevelopment definitely going ahead? Could it be affected by the
proposed Tesco site?
<email obscured> wrote:
>
> What Joyce hasn't mentioned is the role the council plays in
> setting the policies for local development. The Local Plan she
> mentions is now being replaced by the Local
> Development Framework - a collection of studies and policy statements.
>
> Part of the 'core' documents that form the framework, and one
> especially relevant in this case, is the 2006 Retail Study, which the
> last Labour Council commissioned and approved before they were voted
> out of office. The study is important because it can be used to
> justify planning applications for new shops.
>
> The 30,000 study was vehemently opposed by the Greens. It predicted a
> 1.2bn (73%) increase in spending on non-food goods in the city
> between 2005 and 2016. Additionally the study suggests an extra 144m
> (17.5%) will be spent on food and drink in the same period.
>
> To service that extra demand the study predicts a need for massive
> growth in shops in the city. An extra five superstores the size of the
> Lewes Road Sainsburys and another whole Churchill Squares-worth of
> shops for non-food items would be needed.
>
> We disputed the assumptions made by the study a 9% population growth
> was used, whereas the official estimate for the city is 6%.
> Additionally the extra spending was far beyond the official estimates
> of wage increases, so much of the spend would be on borrowed money..
>
> The study replaced an earlier (1999) work which said there was no
> quantative need for new shops, but a qualitative need could be argued.
> The 2006 study opened the door for vast expansion of the retail
> sector. The New Labour government required councils' to update Retail
> Study's, and B&H chose Experian to write the study.
>
> At the time Cllr Georgia Wrighton (Green, Hanover & Elm Grove ward),
> said, in opposing the adoption of the Study, This is madness Greens
> believe theres more to life than shopping!
>
> Given the increasing credit crunch there is even less reason to
> approve plans for big shops selling stuff we dont really need to
> people who cant really afford to buy them.
>
> There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and
> leisure facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made
> with the Open Market redevelopment and I believe theres real
> enthusiasm and experience which should enable a strong alternative to
> clone town Britain claiming another victory.
>
> Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
Max Cooter
Coldean, Brighton
Info about Max Cooter: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/maxcooter
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6DfDtAKsi7RUjloF4VUwtP
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Notice to recipient:
The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information
which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which is prohibited by
law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, please note
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please
notify the sender immediately. Thank you in anticipation of your co-operation.
You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
necessary.
From:
Keith Taylor
Date:
Apr 09 10:52 UTC
Short link
Dear David Ruff
I have no doubt if Tescos made an application it would be supported by a
vast array of consultant's reports presenting their version of the
(beneficial) impacts of their proposals. You make a valid point they could
use justifying their application in that they are adapting existing retail
provision.
Part of the reasoning that prevailed in the 'New England Qtr' Sainsbury's
application was that their larger shop would improve the quality of the
city's 'retail offer'. In accepting that argument, councillors overlooked
the fat that the NEQ shop estimated it would draw in (in comparison to its
London Road store) an extra 19m trade from other shops, notably those in
London Rd.
While the future of the old Sainsbury's site seems to be in some doubt
(the 'ALDIS Opening Soon' sign has disappeared now) I wonder where the
extra trade for another supermarket would come from? And, how would its
customers get there?
Finally the Retail Study was adopted in June 2006 by the Environment
Committee. Greens voted against.
Hope that helps
Keith Taylor
City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
Convenor of Green Councillors Group
tel/fax 01273 291165
<email obscured>
09/04/2008 11:26
To: <email obscured>
cc: "BH@forums" <<email obscured>>, Joyce Edmond-Smith
<<email obscured>>, Max Cooter <<email obscured>>
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
Hi Keith,
As Tescos are proposing to buy up a building that housed retail space at
the time of the study, would they not argue that they have not increased
the amount of retail space at all so even if the retail study could be
rejected or re-defined, Tesco could still get planning approval ?
David Ruffett
Manufacturing Planning Systems Manager
+44 (0)1293 654 492
+44 (0)7920 792 209
<email obscured>
Keith.Taylor@brig
hton-hove.gov.uk
To
08/04/2008 18:47 Joyce Edmond-Smith
<<email obscured>>
cc
"BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>, Max
Cooter <<email obscured>>
Subject
Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
Proposal
What Joyce hasn't mentioned is the role the council plays in
setting the policies for local development. The Local Plan she mentions is
now being replaced by the Local Development Framework - a
collection of studies and policy statements.
Part of the 'core' documents that form the framework, and one especially
relevant in this case, is the 2006 Retail Study, which the last Labour
Council commissioned and approved before they were voted out of office.
The study is important because it can be used to justify planning
applications for new shops.
The 30,000 study was vehemently opposed by the Greens. It predicted a
1.2bn (73%) increase in spending on non-food goods in the city between
2005 and 2016. Additionally the study suggests an extra 144m (17.5%) will
be spent on food and drink in the same period.
To service that extra demand the study predicts a need for massive growth
in shops in the city. An extra five superstores the size of the Lewes Road
Sainsburys and another whole Churchill Squares-worth of shops for
non-food items would be needed.
We disputed the assumptions made by the study a 9% population growth was
used, whereas the official estimate for the city is 6%. Additionally the
extra spending was far beyond the official estimates of wage increases, so
much of the spend would be on borrowed money..
The study replaced an earlier (1999) work which said there was no
quantative need for new shops, but a qualitative need could be argued. The
2006 study opened the door for vast expansion of the retail sector. The
New Labour government required councils' to update Retail Study's, and B&H
chose Experian to write the study.
At the time Cllr Georgia Wrighton (Green, Hanover & Elm Grove ward), said,
in opposing the adoption of the Study, This is madness Greens believe
theres more to life than shopping!
Given the increasing credit crunch there is even less reason to approve
plans for big shops selling stuff we dont really need to people who cant
really afford to buy them.
There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and leisure
facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made with the Open
Market redevelopment and I believe theres real enthusiasm and experience
which should enable a strong alternative to clone town Britain claiming
another victory.
Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
Keith Taylor
City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
Convenor of Green Councillors Group
tel/fax 01273 291165
Joyce Edmond-Smith <<email obscured>>
08/04/2008 12:41
To: Max Cooter <<email obscured>>, "BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>
cc:
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
Lets be clear - Tesco's would have to put in a planning application. This
would be
decided by the Planning Committee (not the Council Leader) and would have
to be dealt
with under planning legislation. Once an application is in people can
approve or object
(this is the opportunity to develop opposition - not by petitions -
objections are much
stronger when written individually and based on planning issues). The
development
control officer will make a recommendation to the planning committee and
the Planning
Committee will decide to accept the recommendation or not . Any decision
will be
expected to be made on the basis of planning issues :- existing Local
Development Plan,
traffic considerations, other planning policies , objections etc. If an
application is
refused the application has the right to appeal (an often not known
injustice of the
planning system is that objectors have no right of appeal) . Should the
appeal be
upheld the local authority usually has to meet the costs which can heavy -
Care will be
taken therefore that decisions meet with planning guidelines.
--- Max Cooter <<email obscured>> wrote:
> This was reported in the Argus a few weeks ago.
>
> I know that Tesco seem to be unstoppable in their bid for world
> domination but I wonder whether they will have their own way on this
> one. For a start, the new council leader, Mary Mears, might have a few
> things to say about any plans that affect the financial viability of her
> two market stalls. But also, this council and the previous
> administration have been looking at ways to reduce traffic coming into
> central Brighton, a massive supermarket on the main artery into town
> would immediately add another level of congestion.
>
> In addition, there are several supermarkets in the area already:
> Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Iceland, the new Aldi and the Lewes Road Co-op
> not too far away. How would it regenerate the area to put one building
> to use while forcing the closure of two, three or four more? And that's
> not counting the small traders who would be put out of business. They'd
> also need to develop well beyond the Co-op store itself - probably
> taking over the bike shop that stands where AA Baker did, the old chapel
> and the pound shop that's there.
>
> Personally, I like Tony C's suggestion below - I certainly feel that the
> Open Market should be a thriving area not the almost shameful secret
> that it is. I'm sure that the council would prefer a tenant other than
> Tesco - my bet is that they'd love John Lewis to come to Brighton - but
> we all know that Tesco have deep pockets and powerful lawyers so it
> wouldn't astonish me to see them winning in the end.
>
>
>
> Tony Cook wrote:
> > The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
> >
> > http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
> >
> > Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
> > will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
> > Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
> > Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
> > that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
> > they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
> >
> > How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
> > already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
> > generated?
> >
> > The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
> > the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
> >
> > The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
> > go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
> > look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
> > consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
> > will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
> >
> > Unquote.
> >
> > Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
> > including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
> > large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
> > market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
> > resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
> > services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
> > around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
> > space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
> > educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
> > transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
> > to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
> > Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
> > and more trees please.
> >
> > Tony C
> >
> > Tony Cook
> >
> > Info about Tony Cook: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tonycook
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4DpexPgie8RzwBngyxC2L2
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> > in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Max Cooter
> Coldean, Brighton
> Info about Max Cooter: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/maxcooter
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1rTu810UGebY35KZ8brLpZ
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
Joyce Edmond-Smith
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
Joyce Edmond-Smith
Info about Joyce Edmond-Smith:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/joyceedmond-smith
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3m050SIMMnWxLLacxvHm4g
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Notice to recipient:
The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only
for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain
information which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which
is prohibited by law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error please notify the sender immediately. Thank you in
anticipation of your co-operation.
You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
necessary.
Keith Taylor
Info about Keith Taylor:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/keithtaylor
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3GrKw1NVJWbVtr2GJHKdqC
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Notice to recipient:
The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only for
the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain information
which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which is prohibited by
law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, please note
that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error please
notify the sender immediately. Thank you in anticipation of your co-operation.
You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
necessary.
From:
David Ruffett
Date:
Apr 09 11:20 UTC
Short link
Hi Keith,
I agree with your argument that there is a finite amount of food/non-food
spending available over the short term so a Tesco would suck away market
share from other outlets. However, if you follow that argument then
expanding the size of the open market and increasing the number of small
retail outlets could also have the same effect.
My thoughts are that the argument that would need to be followed is that a
Tesco does not have the same local benefits as an increase in small retail
outlets. More local people employed, higher business rates etc, more
variety.
In essence we are not averse to an improved London Road with lots of small
retail units on it but are averse to large retail chains taking over large
retail spaces in London Road.
Then all we need to do is find a way to fund the redevelopment of the Co-op
into small retail units, and then find a way to get the shoppers to
visit.......
David Ruffett
Manufacturing Planning Systems Manager
+44 (0)1293 654 492
+44 (0)7920 792 209
<email obscured>
Keith.Taylor@brig
hton-hove.gov.uk
To
09/04/2008 11:51 <email obscured>
cc
"BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>, Joyce
Edmond-Smith
<<email obscured>>, Max
Cooter <<email obscured>>
Subject
Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
Proposal
Dear David Ruff
I have no doubt if Tescos made an application it would be supported by a
vast array of consultant's reports presenting their version of the
(beneficial) impacts of their proposals. You make a valid point they could
use justifying their application in that they are adapting existing retail
provision.
Part of the reasoning that prevailed in the 'New England Qtr' Sainsbury's
application was that their larger shop would improve the quality of the
city's 'retail offer'. In accepting that argument, councillors overlooked
the fat that the NEQ shop estimated it would draw in (in comparison to its
London Road store) an extra £19m trade from other shops, notably those in
London Rd.
While the future of the old Sainsbury's site seems to be in some doubt (the
'ALDIS Opening Soon' sign has disappeared now) I wonder where the extra
trade for another supermarket would come from? And, how would its customers
get there?
Finally the Retail Study was adopted in June 2006 by the Environment
Committee. Greens voted against.
Hope that helps
Keith Taylor
City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
Convenor of Green Councillors Group
tel/fax 01273 291165
Dave.Ruffet@ To: <email obscured>
elekta.com cc: "BH@forums" <<email obscured>>,
Joyce Edmond-Smith <<email obscured>>, Max
Cooter <<email obscured>>
09/04/2008 Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
11:26 Proposal
Hi Keith,
As Tescos are proposing to buy up a building that housed retail space at
the time of the study, would they not argue that they have not increased
the amount of retail space at all so even if the retail study could be
rejected or re-defined, Tesco could still get planning approval ?
David Ruffett
Manufacturing Planning Systems Manager
+44 (0)1293 654 492
+44 (0)7920 792 209
<email obscured>
Keith.Taylor@brig
hton-hove.gov.uk
To
08/04/2008 18:47 Joyce Edmond-Smith
<<email obscured>>
cc
"BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>, Max
Cooter <<email obscured>>
Subject
Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
Proposal
What Joyce hasn't mentioned is the role the council plays in
setting the policies for local development. The Local Plan she mentions is
now being replaced by the Local Development Framework - a
collection of studies and policy statements.
Part of the 'core' documents that form the framework, and one especially
relevant in this case, is the 2006 Retail Study, which the last Labour
Council commissioned and approved before they were voted out of office.
The study is important because it can be used to justify planning
applications for new shops.
The 30,000 study was vehemently opposed by the Greens. It predicted a
1.2bn (73%) increase in spending on non-food goods in the city between
2005 and 2016. Additionally the study suggests an extra 144m (17.5%) will
be spent on food and drink in the same period.
To service that extra demand the study predicts a need for massive growth
in shops in the city. An extra five superstores the size of the Lewes Road
Sainsburys and another whole Churchill Squares-worth of shops for
non-food items would be needed.
We disputed the assumptions made by the study a 9% population growth was
used, whereas the official estimate for the city is 6%. Additionally the
extra spending was far beyond the official estimates of wage increases, so
much of the spend would be on borrowed money..
The study replaced an earlier (1999) work which said there was no
quantative need for new shops, but a qualitative need could be argued. The
2006 study opened the door for vast expansion of the retail sector. The
New Labour government required councils' to update Retail Study's, and B&H
chose Experian to write the study.
At the time Cllr Georgia Wrighton (Green, Hanover & Elm Grove ward), said,
in opposing the adoption of the Study, This is madness Greens believe
theres more to life than shopping!
Given the increasing credit crunch there is even less reason to approve
plans for big shops selling stuff we dont really need to people who cant
really afford to buy them.
There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and leisure
facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made with the Open
Market redevelopment and I believe theres real enthusiasm and experience
which should enable a strong alternative to clone town Britain claiming
another victory.
Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
Keith Taylor
City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
Convenor of Green Councillors Group
tel/fax 01273 291165
Joyce Edmond-Smith <<email obscured>>
08/04/2008 12:41
To: Max Cooter <<email obscured>>, "BH@forums"
<<email obscured>>
cc:
Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
Lets be clear - Tesco's would have to put in a planning application. This
would be
decided by the Planning Committee (not the Council Leader) and would have
to be dealt
with under planning legislation. Once an application is in people can
approve or object
(this is the opportunity to develop opposition - not by petitions -
objections are much
stronger when written individually and based on planning issues). The
development
control officer will make a recommendation to the planning committee and
the Planning
Committee will decide to accept the recommendation or not . Any decision
will be
expected to be made on the basis of planning issues :- existing Local
Development Plan,
traffic considerations, other planning policies , objections etc. If an
application is
refused the application has the right to appeal (an often not known
injustice of the
planning system is that objectors have no right of appeal) . Should the
appeal be
upheld the local authority usually has to meet the costs which can heavy -
Care will be
taken therefore that decisions meet with planning guidelines.
--- Max Cooter <<email obscured>> wrote:
> This was reported in the Argus a few weeks ago.
>
> I know that Tesco seem to be unstoppable in their bid for world
> domination but I wonder whether they will have their own way on this
> one. For a start, the new council leader, Mary Mears, might have a few
> things to say about any plans that affect the financial viability of her
> two market stalls. But also, this council and the previous
> administration have been looking at ways to reduce traffic coming into
> central Brighton, a massive supermarket on the main artery into town
> would immediately add another level of congestion.
>
> In addition, there are several supermarkets in the area already:
> Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Iceland, the new Aldi and the Lewes Road Co-op
> not too far away. How would it regenerate the area to put one building
> to use while forcing the closure of two, three or four more? And that's
> not counting the small traders who would be put out of business. They'd
> also need to develop well beyond the Co-op store itself - probably
> taking over the bike shop that stands where AA Baker did, the old chapel
> and the pound shop that's there.
>
> Personally, I like Tony C's suggestion below - I certainly feel that the
> Open Market should be a thriving area not the almost shameful secret
> that it is. I'm sure that the council would prefer a tenant other than
> Tesco - my bet is that they'd love John Lewis to come to Brighton - but
> we all know that Tesco have deep pockets and powerful lawyers so it
> wouldn't astonish me to see them winning in the end.
>
>
>
> Tony Cook wrote:
> > The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
> >
> > http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
> >
> > Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
> > will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
> > Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
> > Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
> > that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
> > they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
> >
> > How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
> > already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
> > generated?
> >
> > The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
> > the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
> >
> > The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
> > go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
> > look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
> > consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
> > will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
> >
> > Unquote.
> >
> > Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
> > including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
> > large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
> > market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
> > resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
> > services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
> > around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
> > space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
> > educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
> > transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
> > to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
> > Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
> > and more trees please.
> >
> > Tony C
> >
> > Tony Cook
> >
> > Info about Tony Cook: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tonycook
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4DpexPgie8RzwBngyxC2L2
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> > in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Max Cooter
> Coldean, Brighton
> Info about Max Cooter: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/maxcooter
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1rTu810UGebY35KZ8brLpZ
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
Joyce Edmond-Smith
___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
Joyce Edmond-Smith
Info about Joyce Edmond-Smith:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/joyceedmond-smith
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3m050SIMMnWxLLacxvHm4g
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Notice to recipient:
The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only
for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain
information which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which
is prohibited by law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error please notify the sender immediately. Thank you in
anticipation of your co-operation.
You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
necessary.
Keith Taylor
Info about Keith Taylor: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/keithtaylor
This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3GrKw1NVJWbVtr2GJHKdqC
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Notice to recipient:
The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only
for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain
information which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which
is prohibited by law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error please notify the sender immediately. Thank you in
anticipation of your co-operation.
You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
necessary.
From:
Joyce Edmond-Smith
Date:
Apr 09 15:24 UTC
Short link
One of the things which is not clear is the impact of the Sustainable
Communities' Act,
worth recalling that its initiators started from the premise that communities
should be
able to keep their local shops - Don't know where we are yet - as far as I know
the
implications are still to emerge .... Is someone keeping an eye on this ?
Joyce
--- <email obscured> wrote:
> Hi Keith,
>
> I agree with your argument that there is a finite amount of food/non-food
> spending available over the short term so a Tesco would suck away market
> share from other outlets. However, if you follow that argument then
> expanding the size of the open market and increasing the number of small
> retail outlets could also have the same effect.
>
> My thoughts are that the argument that would need to be followed is that a
> Tesco does not have the same local benefits as an increase in small retail
> outlets. More local people employed, higher business rates etc, more
> variety.
>
> In essence we are not averse to an improved London Road with lots of small
> retail units on it but are averse to large retail chains taking over large
> retail spaces in London Road.
>
> Then all we need to do is find a way to fund the redevelopment of the Co-op
> into small retail units, and then find a way to get the shoppers to
> visit.......
>
> David Ruffett
> Manufacturing Planning Systems Manager
>
> +44 (0)1293 654 492
> +44 (0)7920 792 209
> <email obscured>
>
>
>
>
> Keith.Taylor@brig
> hton-hove.gov.uk
> To
> 09/04/2008 11:51 <email obscured>
> cc
> "BH@forums"
> <<email obscured>>, Joyce
> Edmond-Smith
> <<email obscured>>, Max
> Cooter <<email obscured>>
> Subject
> Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
> Proposal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear David Ruff
>
> I have no doubt if Tescos made an application it would be supported by a
> vast array of consultant's reports presenting their version of the
> (beneficial) impacts of their proposals. You make a valid point they could
> use justifying their application in that they are adapting existing retail
> provision.
>
> Part of the reasoning that prevailed in the 'New England Qtr' Sainsbury's
> application was that their larger shop would improve the quality of the
> city's 'retail offer'. In accepting that argument, councillors overlooked
> the fat that the NEQ shop estimated it would draw in (in comparison to its
> London Road store) an extra £19m trade from other shops, notably those in
> London Rd.
>
> While the future of the old Sainsbury's site seems to be in some doubt (the
> 'ALDIS Opening Soon' sign has disappeared now) I wonder where the extra
> trade for another supermarket would come from? And, how would its customers
> get there?
>
> Finally the Retail Study was adopted in June 2006 by the Environment
> Committee. Greens voted against.
>
> Hope that helps
> Keith Taylor
>
>
> City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
> Convenor of Green Councillors Group
> tel/fax 01273 291165
>
>
>
>
> Dave.Ruffet@ To: <email obscured>
> elekta.com cc: "BH@forums" <<email obscured>>,
> Joyce Edmond-Smith <<email obscured>>, Max
> Cooter <<email obscured>>
> 09/04/2008 Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
> 11:26 Proposal
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> As Tescos are proposing to buy up a building that housed retail space at
> the time of the study, would they not argue that they have not increased
> the amount of retail space at all so even if the retail study could be
> rejected or re-defined, Tesco could still get planning approval ?
>
> David Ruffett
> Manufacturing Planning Systems Manager
>
> +44 (0)1293 654 492
> +44 (0)7920 792 209
> <email obscured>
>
>
>
>
> Keith.Taylor@brig
> hton-hove.gov.uk
> To
> 08/04/2008 18:47 Joyce Edmond-Smith
> <<email obscured>>
> cc
> "BH@forums"
> <<email obscured>>, Max
> Cooter <<email obscured>>
> Subject
> Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco
> Proposal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> What Joyce hasn't mentioned is the role the council plays in
> setting the policies for local development. The Local Plan she mentions is
> now being replaced by the Local Development Framework - a
> collection of studies and policy statements.
>
> Part of the 'core' documents that form the framework, and one especially
> relevant in this case, is the 2006 Retail Study, which the last Labour
> Council commissioned and approved before they were voted out of office.
> The study is important because it can be used to justify planning
> applications for new shops.
>
> The 30,000 study was vehemently opposed by the Greens. It predicted a
> 1.2bn (73%) increase in spending on non-food goods in the city between
> 2005 and 2016. Additionally the study suggests an extra 144m (17.5%) will
> be spent on food and drink in the same period.
>
> To service that extra demand the study predicts a need for massive growth
> in shops in the city. An extra five superstores the size of the Lewes Road
> Sainsburys and another whole Churchill Squares-worth of shops for
> non-food items would be needed.
>
> We disputed the assumptions made by the study a 9% population growth was
> used, whereas the official estimate for the city is 6%. Additionally the
> extra spending was far beyond the official estimates of wage increases, so
> much of the spend would be on borrowed money..
>
> The study replaced an earlier (1999) work which said there was no
> quantative need for new shops, but a qualitative need could be argued. The
> 2006 study opened the door for vast expansion of the retail sector. The
> New Labour government required councils' to update Retail Study's, and B&H
> chose Experian to write the study.
>
> At the time Cllr Georgia Wrighton (Green, Hanover & Elm Grove ward), said,
> in opposing the adoption of the Study, This is madness Greens believe
> theres more to life than shopping!
>
> Given the increasing credit crunch there is even less reason to approve
> plans for big shops selling stuff we dont really need to people who cant
> really afford to buy them.
>
> There is time to gather the arguments for sustainable shopping and leisure
> facilities in London Road. A promising start is being made with the Open
> Market redevelopment and I believe theres real enthusiasm and experience
> which should enable a strong alternative to clone town Britain claiming
> another victory.
>
> Another London Road is possible! (as they say)
>
> Keith Taylor
>
> City Councillor for St Peters & North Laine Ward
> Convenor of Green Councillors Group
> tel/fax 01273 291165
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joyce Edmond-Smith <<email obscured>>
> 08/04/2008 12:41
>
> To: Max Cooter <<email obscured>>, "BH@forums"
> <<email obscured>>
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [BH-Issues] London Road Tesco Proposal
>
>
> Lets be clear - Tesco's would have to put in a planning application. This
> would be
> decided by the Planning Committee (not the Council Leader) and would have
> to be dealt
> with under planning legislation. Once an application is in people can
> approve or object
> (this is the opportunity to develop opposition - not by petitions -
> objections are much
> stronger when written individually and based on planning issues). The
> development
> control officer will make a recommendation to the planning committee and
> the Planning
> Committee will decide to accept the recommendation or not . Any decision
> will be
> expected to be made on the basis of planning issues :- existing Local
> Development Plan,
> traffic considerations, other planning policies , objections etc. If an
> application is
> refused the application has the right to appeal (an often not known
> injustice of the
> planning system is that objectors have no right of appeal) . Should the
> appeal be
> upheld the local authority usually has to meet the costs which can heavy -
> Care will be
> taken therefore that decisions meet with planning guidelines.
>
>
> --- Max Cooter <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > This was reported in the Argus a few weeks ago.
> >
> > I know that Tesco seem to be unstoppable in their bid for world
> > domination but I wonder whether they will have their own way on this
> > one. For a start, the new council leader, Mary Mears, might have a few
> > things to say about any plans that affect the financial viability of her
>
> > two market stalls. But also, this council and the previous
> > administration have been looking at ways to reduce traffic coming into
> > central Brighton, a massive supermarket on the main artery into town
> > would immediately add another level of congestion.
> >
> > In addition, there are several supermarkets in the area already:
> > Sainsbury's, Somerfield, Iceland, the new Aldi and the Lewes Road Co-op
> > not too far away. How would it regenerate the area to put one building
> > to use while forcing the closure of two, three or four more? And that's
> > not counting the small traders who would be put out of business. They'd
> > also need to develop well beyond the Co-op store itself - probably
> > taking over the bike shop that stands where AA Baker did, the old chapel
>
> > and the pound shop that's there.
> >
> > Personally, I like Tony C's suggestion below - I certainly feel that the
>
> > Open Market should be a thriving area not the almost shameful secret
> > that it is. I'm sure that the council would prefer a tenant other than
> > Tesco - my bet is that they'd love John Lewis to come to Brighton - but
> > we all know that Tesco have deep pockets and powerful lawyers so it
> > wouldn't astonish me to see them winning in the end.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tony Cook wrote:
> > > The news has been confirmed by The Brighton Society.
> > >
> > > http://www.brighton-society.org.uk/
> > >
> > > Quote:
> > >
> > > The Co-op department store has been earmarked for a Tesco superstore
> > >
> > > Will this mean demolition and rebuilding with a large car park, or
> > > will the present building be converted? It is hard to imagine that
> > > Tesco would be content with the tiny Co-op car park on the site of
> > > Oxford Court. Indeed St James Investments, the developer, has said
> > > that sufficient car parking would be needed to make the area (I think
> > > they mean a Tesco superstore) financially viable.
> > >
> > > How many spaces is 'sufficient' car parking? How will London Road,
> > > already congested, cope with the extra traffic which would be
> > > generated?
> > >
> > > The developer could make a real contribution to the area by helping
> > > the Open Market to carry out its own planned regeneration scheme.
> > >
> > > The Brighton Society looks forward to visiting the website (which will
> > > go live in April or May) when a public exhibition will be held. We
> > > look forward to participating in "an open and honest public
> > > consultation, which helps guide proposals for the area", and we hope
> > > will provide a genuine opportunity to influence those proposals.
> > >
> > > Unquote.
> > >
> > > Personally I would knock everything down (both sides of London Road,
> > > including the Co-op and Open Market), dig up the road and build a
> > > large underground 'terminus' carpark. Above ground I would rebuild the
> > > market, extending the concept to include every conceivable space and
> > > resource necessary to draw in small businesses - retail, goumet,
> > > services, workshops, wi-fi etc. Above the commercial tier, and in and
> > > around inner courtyards, I'd locate low-cost, high-density residential
> > > space including meeting space, dental and medical practices and
> > > educational space suitable for all age groups. I'd restrict motorised
> > > transport within the bounds of this village to milk floats. St Peter's
> > > to the sea-front would then be car free, maybe serviced by trams, the
> > > Steine river brought to the surface and reconfigured as a canal, oh
> > > and more trees please.
> > >
> > > Tony C
> > >
> > > Tony Cook
> > >
> > > Info about Tony Cook: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tonycook
> > >
> > > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4DpexPgie8RzwBngyxC2L2
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> > > in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
> > >
> > > More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
> > >
> > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Max Cooter
> > Coldean, Brighton
> > Info about Max Cooter: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/maxcooter
> >
> > This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1rTu810UGebY35KZ8brLpZ
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> > in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
>
>
> Joyce Edmond-Smith
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! For Good helps you make a difference
>
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
>
> Joyce Edmond-Smith
>
> Info about Joyce Edmond-Smith:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/joyceedmond-smith
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3m050SIMMnWxLLacxvHm4g
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
> Notice to recipient:
> The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only
> for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain
> information which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which
> is prohibited by law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> communication in error please notify the sender immediately. Thank you in
> anticipation of your co-operation.
>
> You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
>
> Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
> necessary.
>
> Keith Taylor
>
> Info about Keith Taylor: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/keithtaylor
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3GrKw1NVJWbVtr2GJHKdqC
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
> Notice to recipient:
> The information contained in this electronic mail message is intended only
> for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed and may contain
> information which is privileged and confidential, the disclosure of which
> is prohibited by law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
> recipient, please note that any dissemination, distribution or copying of
> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
> communication in error please notify the sender immediately. Thank you in
> anticipation of your co-operation.
>
> You can visit our website at http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk
>
> Please consider the environment, only print out this email if absolutely
> necessary.
>
>
>
> David Ruffett
>
> Info about David Ruffett: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/davidruffett
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/26uzUiRti6YGwMJ4K10XDK
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Brighton & Hove Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/bh
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: