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There are 8 posts — by 4 authors — in this topic.
Latest post made by Scott Ritchie at Nov 27 17:03 UTC

From: roger hess jr Date: Nov 23 21:55 UTC Short link

myself, i think we should eliminate the HRA levy for the year 2009. during
these stressful economic times it would be helpful to roseville taxpayers to
eliminate it for one year. it would not affect the day to day operations of the
city. the city somehow survived for many years without an HRA so one more year
should not make any difference. i do not see any downside to eliminating this
large levy for one year.

what are your thoughts on this proposal?

From: John Kysylyczyn Date: Nov 23 22:29 UTC Short link

Small coin on the grand scale of things would be my first point concerning
eliminating the HRA levy for one year.

The second point would be that while the city did operate for years without an
HRA, this statement only applies to the legal entity called the HRA.  The
programs the HRA carries out existed long before the legal entity was created.
The HRA took over programs that the city used to fund from their general tax
levy.

Bigger fish would be to close the TIF districts that the council chose to
extend for the purpose of funding future unknown projects.

The biggest fish would be reeling in the proposed 3.5% salary increase they
want to gift to the employees this year.  Note that the council under
Klausing's tenure I believe has given out 3% increases every year he has been
mayor.  Just looking around town, I have this funny feeling that not many other
people have gotten increases like that year after year after year.

Another huge fish would be reeling in the myriad of expensive health care plans
the city employees have the option of enrolling in at taxpayer expensive.  Yes
employees do pay a portion of the cost, but again I have this funny feeling
that it is probably one of the more generous packages out there versus the real
world that most of us work in.

So for those who will get rubbed the wrong way by my going after employee
salaries and benefits, just keep in mind that this is the single largest
portion of the budget.  Someone at the last meeting threw out the percentage of
80%.  For those who do not read several newspapers daily like I do, there have
been numerous articles around the country about government trimming their
workforces.

Even Pust brought up the suggestion of cutting a few employee positions.  She
recognizes where the money goes.  Klausing replied that the citizens wouldn’t
be hurt by the proposed tax increase, which is at 13% right now according to
Willmus' statement.  The city is continuing to claim 9%, but they keep
forgetting to include the bonding they did earlier this year without voter
approval for several million for the Oval, which does require repayment.  That
adds another 3+% onto the levy.

Several council members claimed back in the early part of this year that they
would not forget about this, but based upon the last two meetings I attended,
none of these council members raised this extra 3%.  I will probably start
naming names unless someone speaks up at this Monday's meeting.

According to my tax bill, the only two items to rise were the Roseville
Council, the largest increase, and the section called voter approved levy for
the school board.  Well I can't really complain about a voter approved levy.

Klausing said that looking at percentages are misleading because Roseville City
is such a small portion of the tax bill.  Well folks, look at your tax
statement and you will discover that apparently he hasn't looked at his tax
statement for several years.  The County has slightly more than a third, the
school district has slightly less than a third, and the city has pretty much a
third of the bill.

Klausing also went on to say that Ihlan's proposal to spend reserves was going
to jeopardize the city's bond rating and was going to run the city into the
ground.  Again Klausing is using fear tactics towards those who are not well
educated about the numbers.  As Willmus said at a past meeting, Roseville has
so much money stocked away that they could cancel property taxes for two full
years.  He is correct.  During my tenure as mayor, before the double digit tax
increase proposals the last 6 years, we had enough money to cancel property
taxes for three full years.  Ihlan has stated that using reserves to pay for
one time expenditures, not ongoing programs with financial tails, is the smart
thing to do in the current economic environment.  Well I would go one step
further and state that when your city has two or three times more money in
reserves per capita, versus any other city in Minnesota, according to the last
time I read the state auditor's numbers on this, that maybe the city is
actually overtaxing its citizens.

Roe was on to the real issue at hand, even though he needs to refine his speech
a bit.  What he essentially was saying was that there is an ethical issue with
raising taxes 13% when personal income is either staying flat or only
increasing by a percentage point or two.

For those of you who took Economics 101 in college, take humor in a statement
that Mr. Klausing made at the last Monday meeting.  He said that in times of a
recession, we should grow government, not shrink it.  Well first off, he has
grown government every year he has been mayor whether there has been a
recession or not.  So maybe he should have rephrased his statement that he
wants to grow government more than he normally wants to in recession years.
But I have digressed from the real issue.  What one of the other council
members clarified is that there is an economic theory that government should
increase CAPITOL expenditures during a recession.  Increasing CAPITOL
expenditures creates jobs, in an environment where materials and labor are
cheaper than normal.  But on the other hand, in years of economic prosperity,
you LOWER or ELIMINATE most capital expenditures because labor costs are higher
and material costs are higher than normal.  One reason why this theory doesn't
apply to growing general government operations is because you can't throttle
that up or down easily as the economy shifts.  I'm no economic specialist by
any means, but after you sit through several briefings and hearings at the
state capitol on this issue (part of my job description when I worked down
there), and add that to Mr. Well's high school economics class, you pick up a
lot of useful information.

The last point that I will leave people with, is that it was clear at the last
council meeting that four people have read portions or all of the budget and
one person is completely a rubber stamp of whatever the city manager puts in
front of him.  Council members Pust, Roe, Ihlan, and Willmus were the only four
to put forward recommended changes to the budget or new ideas in how to save
money.  Guess which member stood alone with the 13% increase...  This member
was also the one who implied that if we didn’t continue to keep raising taxes
at 4 times the rate of inflation, we might end up like Richfield.  Give me a
break!

John M. Kysylyczyn
K Solutions LLC, owner
3083 Victoria Street
Roseville, MN  55113
email: <email obscured>
home office: (651) 484-1384

www.ksolutionsllc.com
Mayor of Roseville, MN  2000-2004

From: David Moufang Date: Nov 25 00:25 UTC Short link

"The biggest fish would be reeling in the proposed 3.5% salary increase they
want to gift to the employees this year."

Disclaimer: I do NOT work for the city of Roseville.  First off, 3.5% is not a
gift.  It's insulting to call it a gift.  That barely keeps up with inflation,
if at all.

"Another huge fish would be reeling in the myriad of expensive health care
plans
the city employees have the option of enrolling in at taxpayer expensive.  Yes
employees do pay a portion of the cost, but again I have this funny feeling
that it is probably one of the more generous packages out there versus the real
world that most of us work in."

The 'real' world?  Do Roseville city employees not work in the real world?
They live in the real world.  They spend money in the real world.  They
education their kids in schools in the real world.  So how is it not the real
world?  Again, insulting.

Health insurance should not be a race to the bottom.  Just because someone else
has a lousy plan doesn't mean the rest of us should.

From: John Kysylyczyn Date: Nov 25 04:21 UTC Short link

The mysterious JO from Energy Park Saint Paul misses the point.

A 3.5% increase at this time is a gift, compared to the raises that people in
the real world are getting today, provided that they still have a job in the
first place.  Whether the 3.5% keeps up with inflation doesn't really matter.
It is not germane to the discussion.  Why should taxpayers pay higher taxes so
government employees can get twice the pay raise they are getting?

The question is, are people in the real world (meaning that they don’t work in
government) getting 3.5% wage increases?  Doubtful.  Have they been getting 3+%
increases the last 5 years, like I believe the case has been in Roseville city
hall?  Doubtful.  Do people in the real world operate in an environment where
it is nearly impossible to get fired or laid off from their job?  Doubtful.

Roseville employees, like a lot of city government employees, do not work in
the real world when you have a city council that continues to dole out generous
wage increases, generous health benefits, and refuses to consider employment
changes, all the while having the attitude that an 8% tax increase isn't an
issue, on top of the tax increases that have been imposed the last 5 years that
all have been roughly double or triple the rate of inflation.  This is a
fantasy world that most people in society do not work in.  Not even the state
government employees live in this kind of fantasy world.  The employees I
worked with at the MN Senate certainly didn't work in this fantasy world.

Agreed that health insurance should not be a race to the bottom.  It should be
a race to consolidate and institute changes that force people to start looking
out for the things they do to drive up the cost of health care.  I operate
under a high deductible health insurance plan with an HSA account and you
better bet that I don't make unneeded trips to the doctor.  I shop for the best
price on prescriptions, rather than take the attitude of who cares, insurance
is paying for it.

Maybe JO can tell us who has gotten 3+% wage increases for the past 5
consecutive years, along with generous health benefits, and rock solid job
protection?

John M. Kysylyczyn
K Solutions LLC, owner
3083 Victoria Street
Roseville, MN  55113
email: <email obscured>
home office: (651) 484-1384

www.ksolutionsllc.com
Mayor of Roseville, MN  2000-2004

-----Original Message-----
From: J.O. [mailto:forcasa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:27 PM
To: Roseville Issues Forum
Subject: Re: [RIF] HRA levy-could we do without it for the year 2009?

"The biggest fish would be reeling in the proposed 3.5% salary increase they
want to gift to the employees this year."

Disclaimer: I do NOT work for the city of Roseville.  First off, 3.5% is not a
gift.  It's insulting to call it a gift.  That barely keeps up with inflation,
if at all.

"Another huge fish would be reeling in the myriad of expensive health care
plans
the city employees have the option of enrolling in at taxpayer expensive.  Yes
employees do pay a portion of the cost, but again I have this funny feeling
that it is probably one of the more generous packages out there versus the real
world that most of us work in."

The 'real' world?  Do Roseville city employees not work in the real world?
They live in the real world.  They spend money in the real world.  They
education their kids in schools in the real world.  So how is it not the real
world?  Again, insulting.

Health insurance should not be a race to the bottom.  Just because someone else
has a lousy plan doesn't mean the rest of us should.

J O
Energy Park, Saint Paul
Info about J.O.: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidmoufang

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/55DXvDaNKbNTn8M8CCujnO
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From: Scott Ritchie Date: Nov 25 15:57 UTC Short link

I, too, am waiting to hear from JO about exactly what companies have been
granting 3.5% raises in the past at least 5 years. And my understanding is that
this 3.5% raise is on top of virtually automatic step increases granted city
employees at regular intervals. For much too long public employees have been
treated much better than their private sector counterparts. The original
justifications for such a disparity were to attract quality employees in a
highly competitive job market and to fight corruption. Neither of these
cicumstances have existed for decades; yet the special treatment continues.

JO should also be aware that a substantial proportion of property owners who
are being told that their property taxes are increasing by 8+% are retirees who
depend upon private industry pensions and investments for everyday living
expenses. Most private pensions do not allow any adjustments for inflation ever
. Therefore over time these pensions steadily lose value. Nothing needs to be
said about how stock and bond investments are faring these days.

Roseville city government should not be proposing any property tax increases in
this economic environment, period. Economies will have to be found within the
city budget or personnel will have to be laid off.



Scott A. Ritchie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John M. Kysylyczyn" <john@ksolutionsllc.com>
To: "Roseville Issues Forum" <roseville-issues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 10:20:47 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [RIF] HRA levy-could we do without it for the year 2009?

The mysterious JO from Energy Park Saint Paul misses the point.

A 3.5% increase at this time is a gift, compared to the raises that people in
the real world are getting today, provided that they still have a job in the
first place. Whether the 3.5% keeps up with inflation doesn't really matter. It
is not germane to the discussion. Why should taxpayers pay higher taxes so
government employees can get twice the pay raise they are getting?

The question is, are people in the real world (meaning that they dont work in
government) getting 3.5% wage increases? Doubtful. Have they been getting 3+%
increases the last 5 years, like I believe the case has been in Roseville city
hall? Doubtful. Do people in the real world operate in an environment where it
is nearly impossible to get fired or laid off from their job? Doubtful.

Roseville employees, like a lot of city government employees, do not work in
the real world when you have a city council that continues to dole out generous
wage increases, generous health benefits, and refuses to consider employment
changes, all the while having the attitude that an 8% tax increase isn't an
issue, on top of the tax increases that have been imposed the last 5 years that
all have been roughly double or triple the rate of inflation. This is a fantasy
world that most people in society do not work in. Not even the state government
employees live in this kind of fantasy world. The employees I worked with at
the MN Senate certainly didn't work in this fantasy world.

Agreed that health insurance should not be a race to the bottom. It should be a
race to consolidate and institute changes that force people to start looking
out for the things they do to drive up the cost of health care. I operate under
a high deductible health insurance plan with an HSA account and you better bet
that I don't make unneeded trips to the doctor. I shop for the best price on
prescriptions, rather than take the attitude of who cares, insurance is paying
for it.

Maybe JO can tell us who has gotten 3+% wage increases for the past 5
consecutive years, along with generous health benefits, and rock solid job
protection?

John M. Kysylyczyn
K Solutions LLC, owner
3083 Victoria Street
Roseville, MN 55113
email: <email obscured>
home office: (651) 484-1384

www.ksolutionsllc.com
Mayor of Roseville, MN 2000-2004

-----Original Message-----
From: J.O. [mailto:forcasa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 6:27 PM
To: Roseville Issues Forum
Subject: Re: [RIF] HRA levy-could we do without it for the year 2009?

"The biggest fish would be reeling in the proposed 3.5% salary increase they
want to gift to the employees this year."

Disclaimer: I do NOT work for the city of Roseville. First off, 3.5% is not a
gift. It's insulting to call it a gift. That barely keeps up with inflation, if
at all.

"Another huge fish would be reeling in the myriad of expensive health care
plans
the city employees have the option of enrolling in at taxpayer expensive. Yes
employees do pay a portion of the cost, but again I have this funny feeling
that it is probably one of the more generous packages out there versus the real
world that most of us work in."

The 'real' world? Do Roseville city employees not work in the real world? They
live in the real world. They spend money in the real world. They education
their kids in schools in the real world. So how is it not the real world?
Again, insulting.

Health insurance should not be a race to the bottom. Just because someone else
has a lousy plan doesn't mean the rest of us should.

J O
Energy Park, Saint Paul
Info about J.O.: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidmoufang

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/55DXvDaNKbNTn8M8CCujnO
-----------------------------------------
To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
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John Kysylyczyn
Roseville
Info about John Kysylyczyn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnmkysylyczyn

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
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To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
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From: David Moufang Date: Nov 26 22:02 UTC Short link

John K said:

"Maybe JO can tell us who has gotten 3+% wage increases for the past 5
consecutive years, along with generous health benefits, and rock solid job
protection?"

I never claimed that anyone else is receiving a 3% raise.  We're discussing
Roseville city employees.  What other organizations do with (to?) their
employees is their business and not relevant to this discussion.

and:

"I operate under a high deductible health insurance plan with an HSA account
and you better bet that I don't make unneeded trips to the doctor.  I shop for
the best
price on prescriptions, rather than take the attitude of who cares, insurance
is paying for it."

I see exactly where this is going...what you're basically saying is that you
have a lousy insurance plan.  And because you're forced to deal with (A) a high
deductible; (B) an HSA (which in my opinion is a complete joke); and (C) having
to shop for prescriptions, you feel that everyone else should have to comply.
That is a complete crock of you-know-what, and it's that kind of attitude
that's got us into this current mess.  Essentially: "Because my health
insurance sucks, yours should too."  This contradicts your statement of "Agreed
that health insurance should not be a race to the bottom."

Furthermore, exactly what are your criteria for 'unneeded doctor trips?'
That's a slippery slope if there ever was one.

Scott said:

"Roseville city government should not be proposing any property tax increases
in this economic environment, period. Economies will have to be found within
the
city budget or personnel will have to be laid off."

If staff aren't to be given a pay rise, then I agree with the above position if
that is the reasoning used.  In other words, the city will go broke if we
increase payroll by 3%, and we may even have layoffs.  I agree with that -- if
there's no money, we can't pay out more.  That makes sense.

But the idea that Roseville employees should not be given a cost-of-living
increase simply because some other unnamed company doesn't follow suit is flat
out wrong and irrelevant.  Roseville can do with its money whatever it wants --
it is not required to be motivated by what the private sector chooses to do
vis-a-vis employment.

Property taxes have increased, in large part, because of a hostile governor.
He has stripped LGA and forced the cities to make up the difference by jacking
up their taxes to ridiculous levels.  The spike in house prices 2002-2006 did
not help the situation.  I think we're already seeing some taxes come down
because of falling real estate values.  It's not enough though.

From: John Kysylyczyn Date: Nov 27 04:13 UTC Short link

In reply to the mysterious city employee JO of Energy Park of Saint Paul, I
think that Ken is right that it is improper for people to hide their true
identity on the forum.  I always automatically give people much more credit
when they have the backbone to personally stand behind their words.

But in the interests of exploring these issues more thoroughly, I am going to
respond because JO needs some educating, rather than take a pass on his
comments.

JO seems to think that Roseville operates on some sort of an island.  It most
certainly is germane to point out that Roseville employees are asking to
getting higher raises than the taxpayers who are paying their salaries.  If
anyone can't understand the connection, I apologize that I cannot explain it
any more clearer.

JO thinks that high deductible health insurance policies with HSA accounts are
lousy insurance plans.  For the intelligent people who are good shoppers, they
can be excellent programs.  We actually pay less than we did with our old plan
which is the type that JO is advocating for.  I don't go along with JO's
apparent belief that those of us who are good shoppers are supposed to pay the
way for the crappy shoppers.

JO is scared to shop for prescriptions, but I bet he has gotten the courage in
the past to shop for things like automobiles.  Shopping for prescriptions is
like shopping for a lot of things in life, and I am pretty good at doing this.
In many cases we end up paying the same price and in one case less than the
co-pay that existed with the old plan.  That drug that goes by the name
Prilosec, which is now available over the counter?  Well I pay probably half
what everyone else is paying.  When you add these savings to an insurance
policy costing a fraction of what we were paying under the old system, and we
save and get the same benefits.  I believe the greatest out of pocket expense
we can have is $2000 a year.  With a family of four, I don’t believe that we
have even come close to half of that.  With the employer contribution to the
HSA account coming in every year, we have built up a fund balance to cover the
maximum deductible for a few years.  We will continue to build up that fund in
the future.

JO doesn't understand what unneeded doctor trips are, but frankly this should
be pretty self explanatory.  When someone else is paying the bill, you never
think twice about using the supposed "free" service.  When you are paying the
bill, you do ask yourself if you really need to go into the doctor every time
you have a runny nose.  The leaf pickup program is a good comparison to explain
what I am trying to say.  When it was "free", a certain number of people used
it.  When they started charging $10, the numbers drastically dropped off.
Turns out that a lot of people really didn't need the program, but figured
heck, if it is free, why not, never thinking that nothing is ever free, it
simply is being paid for by the taxpayers.

JO again thinks that the City of Roseville is an island when it comes to
cost-of-living increases.  If the city was an independent company, owned by
private shareholders or owned by even a single person, then it is their
business what they pay their employees.  But last time I checked, the City of
Roseville is owned by the people of Roseville.  As a person who lives in this
city, I believe there is absolutely no logical reason you would give your
employees fat pay raises in this economy.

JO doesn't understand economics 101 in a capitalistic society.  You give pay
raises to keep people from jumping to some other position.  Maybe you give
raises to keep a certain level of experience on your staff.  The proposed pay
raises by the council have nothing to do with either of these things.  There is
absolutely not one iota of evidence that a 0% increase would drive even one
person to jump to another job.  Can someone tell me what other city is doing a
mass hiring at better wages than we pay?

JO obviously has been drinking the DFL Kool-Aid when it comes to his comments
about property taxes going up because the governor.  He is also being
brainwashed by the Klausing rhetoric that I have heard from him the last 6
years.  Roseville hasn't gotten LGA since probably the Perpich administration.
The Market Value Homestead Credit was cut back during my term, 6 years ago.
Klausing claims every year that we need to raise taxes in order to make up for
aid cuts.  Klausing already raised taxes the first year he took office to
supposedly accomplish this.  It is an old excuse that has no bearing in fact.
It is being used again and again to pass off the blame on others, when it is
his out of control spending habits and aloof attitude towards the budget that
are to blame.

The governor and many in the legislature have taken the position that cities
and their taxpayers should pay their own way.  If you pay for it yourself, you
will be more responsible with spending.  A simple concept.

Just this Monday, Klausing made the outrageous claim that taxes needed to rise
9% because the city had to make up for previous cuts and gave several examples.
He then went on to give the old scare tactic that city financial reserves were
low, even though we have enough money stored up to cancel property taxes for
two to three years.  Thankfully Ms. Ihlan pointed out that there was absolutely
no connection between the examples Klausing was giving with what he was trying
to claim.  Ms. Pust was looking at Klausing like he was nuts.  (Note:  Seeing
council members reactions to what others are saying is the biggest benefit of
attending meetings in person, versus attending them on your Lay-Z-Boy at home.)

JO obviously hasn't looked at his tax bill.  Property values are falling but
ROSEVILLE taxes are going up at a rapid pace.  Oh yeah, I forgot, JO lives in
Energy Park Saint Paul so he hasn't ever seen a Roseville tax bill.

While I don't have the time to educate JO on this, property values themselves
have little to do tax increases or decreases.  It has to do with net tax
capacity formulas and how different types of property increases or decreases,
and whether new capacity is added through new construction, or taken away or
limited due to the creation of TIF districts.  This is an extreme
oversimplification of it, but my best shot at explaining this in one paragraph.

I used to live by Energy Park.  I seem to recall that this was another taxpayer
black hole as far as money went.  Remember that great prosperous mall that was
supposed to be there?  The dreams of government bureaucrats unchecked by
elected officials...


John M. Kysylyczyn
K Solutions LLC, owner
3083 Victoria Street
Roseville, MN  55113
email: <email obscured>
home office: (651) 484-1384

www.ksolutionsllc.com
Mayor of Roseville, MN  2000-2004

-----Original Message-----
From: J.O. [mailto:forcasa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:03 PM
To: Roseville Issues Forum
Subject: Re: [RIF] HRA levy-could we do without it for the year 2009?

John K said:

"Maybe JO can tell us who has gotten 3+% wage increases for the past 5
consecutive years, along with generous health benefits, and rock solid job
protection?"

I never claimed that anyone else is receiving a 3% raise.  We're discussing
Roseville city employees.  What other organizations do with (to?) their
employees is their business and not relevant to this discussion.

and:

"I operate under a high deductible health insurance plan with an HSA account
and you better bet that I don't make unneeded trips to the doctor.  I shop for
the best
price on prescriptions, rather than take the attitude of who cares, insurance
is paying for it."

I see exactly where this is going...what you're basically saying is that you
have a lousy insurance plan.  And because you're forced to deal with (A) a high
deductible; (B) an HSA (which in my opinion is a complete joke); and (C) having
to shop for prescriptions, you feel that everyone else should have to comply.
That is a complete crock of you-know-what, and it's that kind of attitude
that's got us into this current mess.  Essentially: "Because my health
insurance sucks, yours should too."  This contradicts your statement of "Agreed
that health insurance should not be a race to the bottom."

Furthermore, exactly what are your criteria for 'unneeded doctor trips?'
That's a slippery slope if there ever was one.

Scott said:

"Roseville city government should not be proposing any property tax increases
in this economic environment, period. Economies will have to be found within
the
city budget or personnel will have to be laid off."

If staff aren't to be given a pay rise, then I agree with the above position if
that is the reasoning used.  In other words, the city will go broke if we
increase payroll by 3%, and we may even have layoffs.  I agree with that -- if
there's no money, we can't pay out more.  That makes sense.

But the idea that Roseville employees should not be given a cost-of-living
increase simply because some other unnamed company doesn't follow suit is flat
out wrong and irrelevant.  Roseville can do with its money whatever it wants --
it is not required to be motivated by what the private sector chooses to do
vis-a-vis employment.

Property taxes have increased, in large part, because of a hostile governor.
He has stripped LGA and forced the cities to make up the difference by jacking
up their taxes to ridiculous levels.  The spike in house prices 2002-2006 did
not help the situation.  I think we're already seeing some taxes come down
because of falling real estate values.  It's not enough though.

J O
Energy Park, Saint Paul
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From: Scott Ritchie Date: Nov 27 17:03 UTC Short link

Thanks, John K., for again responding with facts and experience to JO's claims
that Roseville employees should be privileged with cost of living pay raises
regardless of what is happening in the larger economy.

It bears repeating yet again: Roseville property taxes should not be increased
when people are losing their jobs, the wages of people with jobs are stagnant
or decreasing, and retirees' income is decreasing as a result of inflation and
the stock market crash. We are teetering at the edge of a depression. It is
outrageous that our city council is in these desperate times proposing an 8+%
tax increase.

I plan to be at the the hearing to consider this proposal at City Hall on
Monday, Dec. 1, at 6:00. I urge all concerned Roseville citizens to attend and
make their views known.



Scott A. Ritchie

----- Original Message -----
From: "John M. Kysylyczyn" <johnk@usfamily.net>
To: "Roseville Issues Forum" <roseville-issues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:13:36 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [RIF] HRA levy-could we do without it for the year 2009?

In reply to the mysterious city employee JO of Energy Park of Saint Paul, I
think that Ken is right that it is improper for people to hide their true
identity on the forum. I always automatically give people much more credit when
they have the backbone to personally stand behind their words.

But in the interests of exploring these issues more thoroughly, I am going to
respond because JO needs some educating, rather than take a pass on his
comments.

JO seems to think that Roseville operates on some sort of an island. It most
certainly is germane to point out that Roseville employees are asking to
getting higher raises than the taxpayers who are paying their salaries. If
anyone can't understand the connection, I apologize that I cannot explain it
any more clearer.

JO thinks that high deductible health insurance policies with HSA accounts are
lousy insurance plans. For the intelligent people who are good shoppers, they
can be excellent programs. We actually pay less than we did with our old plan
which is the type that JO is advocating for. I don't go along with JO's
apparent belief that those of us who are good shoppers are supposed to pay the
way for the crappy shoppers.

JO is scared to shop for prescriptions, but I bet he has gotten the courage in
the past to shop for things like automobiles. Shopping for prescriptions is
like shopping for a lot of things in life, and I am pretty good at doing this.
In many cases we end up paying the same price and in one case less than the
co-pay that existed with the old plan. That drug that goes by the name
Prilosec, which is now available over the counter? Well I pay probably half
what everyone else is paying. When you add these savings to an insurance policy
costing a fraction of what we were paying under the old system, and we save and
get the same benefits. I believe the greatest out of pocket expense we can have
is $2000 a year. With a family of four, I dont believe that we have even come
close to half of that. With the employer contribution to the HSA account coming
in every year, we have built up a fund balance to cover the maximum deductible
for a few years. We will continue to build u
p that fund in the future.

JO doesn't understand what unneeded doctor trips are, but frankly this should
be pretty self explanatory. When someone else is paying the bill, you never
think twice about using the supposed "free" service. When you are paying the
bill, you do ask yourself if you really need to go into the doctor every time
you have a runny nose. The leaf pickup program is a good comparison to explain
what I am trying to say. When it was "free", a certain number of people used
it. When they started charging $10, the numbers drastically dropped off. Turns
out that a lot of people really didn't need the program, but figured heck, if
it is free, why not, never thinking that nothing is ever free, it simply is
being paid for by the taxpayers.

JO again thinks that the City of Roseville is an island when it comes to
cost-of-living increases. If the city was an independent company, owned by
private shareholders or owned by even a single person, then it is their
business what they pay their employees. But last time I checked, the City of
Roseville is owned by the people of Roseville. As a person who lives in this
city, I believe there is absolutely no logical reason you would give your
employees fat pay raises in this economy.

JO doesn't understand economics 101 in a capitalistic society. You give pay
raises to keep people from jumping to some other position. Maybe you give
raises to keep a certain level of experience on your staff. The proposed pay
raises by the council have nothing to do with either of these things. There is
absolutely not one iota of evidence that a 0% increase would drive even one
person to jump to another job. Can someone tell me what other city is doing a
mass hiring at better wages than we pay?

JO obviously has been drinking the DFL Kool-Aid when it comes to his comments
about property taxes going up because the governor. He is also being
brainwashed by the Klausing rhetoric that I have heard from him the last 6
years. Roseville hasn't gotten LGA since probably the Perpich administration.
The Market Value Homestead Credit was cut back during my term, 6 years ago.
Klausing claims every year that we need to raise taxes in order to make up for
aid cuts. Klausing already raised taxes the first year he took office to
supposedly accomplish this. It is an old excuse that has no bearing in fact. It
is being used again and again to pass off the blame on others, when it is his
out of control spending habits and aloof attitude towards the budget that are
to blame.

The governor and many in the legislature have taken the position that cities
and their taxpayers should pay their own way. If you pay for it yourself, you
will be more responsible with spending. A simple concept.

Just this Monday, Klausing made the outrageous claim that taxes needed to rise
9% because the city had to make up for previous cuts and gave several examples.
He then went on to give the old scare tactic that city financial reserves were
low, even though we have enough money stored up to cancel property taxes for
two to three years. Thankfully Ms. Ihlan pointed out that there was absolutely
no connection between the examples Klausing was giving with what he was trying
to claim. Ms. Pust was looking at Klausing like he was nuts. (Note: Seeing
council members reactions to what others are saying is the biggest benefit of
attending meetings in person, versus attending them on your Lay-Z-Boy at home.)

JO obviously hasn't looked at his tax bill. Property values are falling but
ROSEVILLE taxes are going up at a rapid pace. Oh yeah, I forgot, JO lives in
Energy Park Saint Paul so he hasn't ever seen a Roseville tax bill.

While I don't have the time to educate JO on this, property values themselves
have little to do tax increases or decreases. It has to do with net tax
capacity formulas and how different types of property increases or decreases,
and whether new capacity is added through new construction, or taken away or
limited due to the creation of TIF districts. This is an extreme
oversimplification of it, but my best shot at explaining this in one paragraph.

I used to live by Energy Park. I seem to recall that this was another taxpayer
black hole as far as money went. Remember that great prosperous mall that was
supposed to be there? The dreams of government bureaucrats unchecked by elected
officials...

John M. Kysylyczyn
K Solutions LLC, owner
3083 Victoria Street
Roseville, MN 55113
email: <email obscured>
home office: (651) 484-1384

www.ksolutionsllc.com
Mayor of Roseville, MN 2000-2004

-----Original Message-----
From: J.O. [mailto:forcasa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 4:03 PM
To: Roseville Issues Forum
Subject: Re: [RIF] HRA levy-could we do without it for the year 2009?

John K said:

"Maybe JO can tell us who has gotten 3+% wage increases for the past 5
consecutive years, along with generous health benefits, and rock solid job
protection?"

I never claimed that anyone else is receiving a 3% raise. We're discussing
Roseville city employees. What other organizations do with (to?) their
employees is their business and not relevant to this discussion.

and:

"I operate under a high deductible health insurance plan with an HSA account
and you better bet that I don't make unneeded trips to the doctor. I shop for
the best
price on prescriptions, rather than take the attitude of who cares, insurance
is paying for it."

I see exactly where this is going...what you're basically saying is that you
have a lousy insurance plan. And because you're forced to deal with (A) a high
deductible; (B) an HSA (which in my opinion is a complete joke); and (C) having
to shop for prescriptions, you feel that everyone else should have to comply.
That is a complete crock of you-know-what, and it's that kind of attitude
that's got us into this current mess. Essentially: "Because my health insurance
sucks, yours should too." This contradicts your statement of "Agreed that
health insurance should not be a race to the bottom."

Furthermore, exactly what are your criteria for 'unneeded doctor trips?' That's
a slippery slope if there ever was one.

Scott said:

"Roseville city government should not be proposing any property tax increases
in this economic environment, period. Economies will have to be found within
the
city budget or personnel will have to be laid off."

If staff aren't to be given a pay rise, then I agree with the above position if
that is the reasoning used. In other words, the city will go broke if we
increase payroll by 3%, and we may even have layoffs. I agree with that -- if
there's no money, we can't pay out more. That makes sense.

But the idea that Roseville employees should not be given a cost-of-living
increase simply because some other unnamed company doesn't follow suit is flat
out wrong and irrelevant. Roseville can do with its money whatever it wants --
it is not required to be motivated by what the private sector chooses to do
vis-a-vis employment.

Property taxes have increased, in large part, because of a hostile governor. He
has stripped LGA and forced the cities to make up the difference by jacking up
their taxes to ridiculous levels. The spike in house prices 2002-2006 did not
help the situation. I think we're already seeing some taxes come down because
of falling real estate values. It's not enough though.

J O
Energy Park, Saint Paul
Info about J.O.: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidmoufang

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1EWAGTQEE6tCVNqKOFZbif
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John Kysylyczyn
Roseville
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