All posts in the topic The Friar, Marston Road (Short link)
Summary
- There are 12 posts — by 3 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Chris Brewer at Aug 01 09:37 UTC
So, knowing there a some people who are very knowledgeable about pubs on this
forum, what is happening to The Friar? The last time I went past the for sale
sign had gone. Has this pub got a future?
Not as a pub I don't think. When it closed it was bought by Clint -
the guy that has Cafe Coco's, Kazbar and Lemon Tree etc. Since his
plans for the Lemon Tree have been dealt a bit of a blow (ie to
develop it for flats and use the money to fund other pub type
ventures - he has a new one coming up where the Moonlight Tandoori
was on Cowley Rd) he's now just holding onto the Friar and thinking
about what to put in for planning. But it's unlikely to be a pub
again, and I do reckon that's fine - I suspect neighbours will be
pleased that it's not going to return to anything like its former,
not always terribly sociable (spot the diplomacy here!) self.
Last I heard was that his plans may include a row of three shops with
some flats above. But so far as I am aware he has not submitted
anything yet so don't anybody go getting up some kind of anti-this-or-
that campaign yet!
He *was* trying to sell it as I understand it, and the sign has come
down because he has taken it off the market.
Jock Coats – many thanks for a very helpful post.
I will refrain from launching a ‘Save The Friar’ campaign for now (much as I
seem to be drawn to lost causes), but I will say this. A few weeks back we
stopped to pick up a few things at the Co-Op on Old Marston Road. There were
loads of people buying drink, and also from the Cost Cutter nearby. Maybe many
were going on to parties, but I suspect a lot of people were just going home,
to have a drink watching television. All this going on with The Friar dark and
shuttered just over the road.
I think that is very sad. Oxford has a fast growing population, from all over
the world. Pubs are the places to meet and mix and get to know each other –
what’s the point of some bloke from Poznan going off home with his bottle of
Zywiec? So I think it especially important suburban pubs are saved – they are
close to where people live, and are vital as meeting places for societies,
places to play games – and just to drink and chat.
The Waterman’s in Osney in the 1980s run by the brilliant if eccentric landlord
Alan Wilmer was an example of how a great pub can be the centre of a community.
Good and imaginative management, that’s all a lot of these pubs need. But for
some pub owners, it easier to let the pub run down and then flog it off for
housing.
The Oxford Mail has revealed what is happening at the Friar in Marston Road: http://archive.oxfordmail.net/2008/1/18/217174.html It sounds as though Clinton Pugh, the restaurateur who bought The Friar last May, is going to redevelop the site in an interesting way. He is quoted as saying: "I want to build some shops that will be of benefit to the local community, with a greengrocer's, a delicatessen and a cafe/wine bar. I want the cafe to be a place where people living in the area can come and meet with friends and relax, and it will offer them something that they don't already have.... The area is already well served with pubs and I don't think it needs another one." Pugh also makes interesting comments in the article about the pub situation in Oxford.
Now the details of what Clinton Pugh is proposing are becoming clearer - Demolition of existing public house. Erection of replacement building to site frontage to provide 3 commercial units (2x retail, 1x food & drink) on ground floor and 6x1 bed residential flats on 1st and 2nd floors. Erection of further 2 storey building to rear to provide 2x2 bed flats. So we have essentially a new block of flats, two more flats in what was the pub garden, with the small concession of two shops and a food and drink venue. In the Oxford Mail report on 18/1/2008 Mr. Pugh said, ‘The area is already well served with pubs and I don't think it needs another one.’ This is a curious thing to say. It is not a question of ‘another one’. For many years the large area of New Marston and Northway has been served by four pubs. To take a away one at a time of growing population in the area risks creating a large expanse of lifeless suburb. I would also question whether The Friar really is redundant. Just because the previous owner ran down the pub with an eye to selling it on does not mean that it could not be very successful again. It was reported last spring ago that the Vale Brewery Company – http://www.valebrewery.co.uk/ were negotiating to buy The Friar. What a shame this did not happen. I have no doubt however, that with imaginative ownership, The Friar could again be a vibrant community pub. Mr. Pugh has spoken of a having a greengrocers and delicatessen on the site. Again, another curious thing to say. There are not many places in New Marston and Northway that already have two places selling fresh fruit and vegetable within fifty yards, but The Friar is one, with both Costcutter and the Co-op nearby. In addition Seasons delicatassen is only a stone’s throw away on Cherwell Drive. The truth is the retail units could end up as anything, it just depends on who, if anyone, will pay the rent.
Well, well - Jock Coats was quite right, Clinton Pugh has withdrawn his application. http://uniformpublicaccess.oxford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/dcapplication/application_detailview.aspx?KEYVAL=JW6IYYMF0CW00&module=P3&hidereturn=true So I wonder what happens next?
According to today's Oxford Mail, Tesco's has now bought the Friar with a view to replacing it with a Tesco's Express store: http://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.2193364.0.residents_fear_new_tesco_store.php
Hmmm - as I said a while back....perhaps better the devil you know...:)
Score one against the planners.
'Score one against the planners'. That depends on whether you accept Clinton
Pugh's account of what happened. There is no comment from the City Council's
planning officers or elected members, so it is not easy to know what their
thinking is. All we know for certain is that Clinton Pugh withdrew the
application before it could be decided.
Already there seems to be plenty of opposition to Tesco - this one will run and
run.
Perhaps. There has clearly been some gamesmanship between Clint and planners these past few months, both in respect of this and the Lemon Tree application. But for years I have known people who feel that the planning system (it's not necessarily a reflection on Oxford's planners alone - it seems deeply embedded) does not really appreciate the needs of smaller, often more locally based, businesses and developers who are often carrying big debt while waiting for discussions and applications to run their course. It was particularly bad a couple of years back where getting an appeal date alone could take months and then they'd only get one a year away. I am not of course saying that one should "nod them through" but, just as an "Englishman's home is his castle", supposedly, the planning system is in fact there to facilitate development - the underlying principle being that somebody ought, within reason, to be able to do what -they want- with what belongs to them*. And every delay means more costs to the owner. Tesco, on the other hand, can afford to ride out such delays and inconveniences. Personally as a three times a week Co-op customer there at least, I'd be sorry to see either of the two general stores in Old Marston Road in financial trouble because of this, but the planning system ought not be used to protect businesses from competition - unless there is an over-riding public consideration - and the Post Office *might* be such. It's an awkward site to be sure. And if competition results, as it almost inevitably does, in cheaper or better quality food being available to local people then that is to their benefit. Who knows, in the worst case scenario, one could perhaps see one of the other supermarkets go, the rent fall a little and some other local entrepreneur doing something vaguely complimentary to Tesco's presence might emerge and actually cause a diversification there - any one of those modernist buildings tarted up could make a great setting for a cafe or some other useful local shop. But, for example, I know people (myself included) find it difficult at present to cross the Marston Road there already (by foot especially but even in a car it's difficult), even before this news, and while the two existing stores still attract business that area is completely parked up with customers of theirs (why should Tesco attract only people on foot when those other two clearly attract people in cars?). But an organisation with the luxury of time and financial muscle has presumably already budgetted for seeing out the planning process come what may. One wonders what else they may be willing to put on the table to get that permission (traffic lights with pedestrian facilities at that junction, say?). It is not a level playing field in my opinion at the moment. Jock *of course as a land reform advocate I do not personally subscribe to this mantra! http://www.jockcoats.org.uk/jocks_categories/land_value_tax
I would certainly question whether competition 'almost inevitably' results in
cheaper or better quality food.
As an example, Tesco on Cowley Road a few years back opened a fresh fish
counter. This had the result of putting the fishmonger over the road out of
business. Then Tesco closed their fish counter and started selling foul
smelling roast chicken instead. The net result - no fresh fish for sale on the
Cowley Road.
There is still no planning application from Tesco, and this once rather fine
building continues to decay. The fence to the left has been broken, so there is
now free access to the rear of the building. It's probably not long now until
someone breaks in and vandalises it, or starts a fire.