All posts in the topic Headington Hill Park - tree felling & identifying... (Short link)
Summary
- There are 16 posts — by 7 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Jock Coats at Jul 11 13:06 UTC
No doubt in common with our other parks the City Council is currently
identifying dead and potentially damaged or damaging trees in their
ownership and a few in Headington Hill Park are marked for imminent
destruction (which started yesterday). I've been round the park a
couple of times looking for the tell tale executioner's big red cross
and have found a few more destined for the chop.
Most, including one acer near the gate opposite Cheney Lane, do look
dead - we've noticed they've not grown much leaf cover over the past
year or so. There's just one I would have questioned near the
boundary with Clive Booth Halls which looks mature and still well alive.
There's one tree in there in particular whose identity has been
troubling me for a while, since we noticed it blossoming in April or
May. It stands about ten meters into the park opposite and slightly
down the hill a little from the old toilet block on the Headington
Hill side of the park - next to what if I recall correctly was a
large plane tree that appears to have been pollarded (or maybe just
incompletely felled as of last night - a stump about 12 foot high. I
wonder if anyone can identify it for me:
It had two inch long trumpet shaped pale lilac coloured flowers (it
flowered at the save time as the lilacs incidentally - perhaps
slightly before). It has very large ovate style leaves, not at all
dissimilar to the Indian bean trees - dinner plate sized leaves. And
I noticed last night its fruit - they appear to be brown , quite
large - an inch to 1 1/2 across - "nuts with petals" - they look a
bit like large, dark and hard cape gooseberries, or like very large
hazels with folds in the nut from base to tip as if the flowers have
just closed around the nut to form a point.
It's quite tall and branches seem to hang downwards from twelve feet
up the trunk. The trunk is quite smooth and pale. It appears to
grow in a clump of about four four or five inch trunks.
The following files were added to this topic:
Jock's pictures failed to come through. There is only the option of adding
one file on the web-based version of this forum, so I shall play safe and just
upload of his pictures herewith to help you identify the tree.
The following file was added to this topic:
Thanks Stephanie! I'll post the other one, which gives a better view of the
flowers and you can see the sort of leaves (heart shaped) in some of the
background (it's a bit difficult as the whole thing is in a bit of a tangle
with other trees and so high off the ground it was difficult to get a decent
closeup picture). If I can remember today I will get a photo of the "nut"
which also looks pretty unique and should be easy maybe to identify.
The following file was added to this topic:
My husband thinks this tree might be a Foxglove tree sometimes known
as an Empress tree (Paulownia tomentosa)
shape - wide-spreading then up-curving branches from a straight trunk
Grey bark, finely roughened
Leaves - gigantic to 35 cm and flimsy, heart-shaped
Flowers in late spring but before the leaves - tall heads of deep
mauve, highly fragrant bells
Related to bean tree you mentioned, Jock
Are the leaves woolly on both sides? His tree book doesn't mention
the fruit though...
Ruth Wilkinson
If you put "Foxglove Tree" or "Paulownia tomentosa" into Google and click on Images, there are lots of results that look very much like your picture Jock. PG ----- Original Message ----- From: Ruth Wilkinson To: Headington & Marston Neighbourhood Forum Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [HMNF] Headington Hill Park - tree felling & identifying... My husband thinks this tree might be a Foxglove tree sometimes known as an Empress tree (Paulownia tomentosa) shape - wide-spreading then up-curving branches from a straight trunk Grey bark, finely roughened Leaves - gigantic to 35 cm and flimsy, heart-shaped Flowers in late spring but before the leaves - tall heads of deep mauve, highly fragrant bells Related to bean tree you mentioned, Jock Are the leaves woolly on both sides? His tree book doesn't mention the fruit though... Ruth Wilkinson Ruth Wilkinson Headington, Oxford Info about Ruth Wilkinson: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4sPZdZFjHWvbwjqVXjKjFk This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1kNDIfrQZ4xe5HPGrqdLV3 ----------------------------------------- To post, send your message to: <email obscured> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on," in subject line and send to: <email obscured> More info about Headington & Marston Neighbourhood Forum: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules ----------------------------------------- Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
Yup - it certainly is that! I don't know why we hadn't noticed it previously - I suppose it is a little off the path and has up till recently been behind a large Plane tree or something - but it was stunning in flower this year and we spotted it (rather we spotting it mostly because towards the end of flowering it left a near solid carpet of these large lilac flowers everywhere). So thanks both for identifying it. Apparently it's one of the fastest growing hardwoods (so much so that in some places it is an invasive weed). I wonder if it's useful for anything - it would make a beautiful change from willow as a way of developing cover quickly I'd have thought! Jock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia_tomentosa
I see not everyone is happy with the tree felling - http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/headlines/display.var.2371572.0.tree_felling_angers_dog_walker.php Just as a matter of interest, as Headington Hill Park is in a Conservation Area, isn't planning permission required for tree felling?
I too am becoming less sanguine about this as more disappear that I am sure did not have the mark of death on them: http://www.jockcoats.org.uk/second_most_interesting_tree_hacked_pieces
From the City Council web site -
'All trees in Conservation Areas are protected if they have a stem diameter of
75 millimetres measured at 1.5 metres from ground level. In general, it is an
offence under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 for anyone to undertake
work to a tree in a conservation area without giving the Council six weeks
written prior notice. The notice period is for the Council to decide if the
tree(s) should be protected from proposed work by a TPO...
... It should be noted that it is not an offence to undertake work to a tree in
a Conservation Area that is dead, dying or has become dangerous. However, the
burden of proof that work is exempt from the need for prior notice because of
the condition of the tree(s) lies with the person carrying out the work. Anyone
proposing to do work under this exemption is strongly advised to contact the
tree officer for advice before hand.
So, if healthy trees in Headington Hill Park meeting the above size criteria
were felled, that appears to be, to say the least, very strange. Could someone
from the City Council comment on this please?
Dear Chris and all,
I will pass on this e-mail to the relevant officers for their comment. The
general background is, I know, that no survey of trees owned by the City
Council has been done for some years and that experts have been called in to
check them all over a period of three years (starting from last year). It is
unsurprising that some are found to need treatment and some -- a small % --
to need felling. There was, as you know, a tragic case a few years back of a
young woman being killed by a falling bough, in the centre of town. It would
be a dereliction of duty if the Council did not remove dangerous trees. The
question in this case is about the certainty that the few being felled were
dangerous. There is also the matter of what replacements will be planted --
I'm sure we all like to see a net increase in trees. I'll ask the officers
to respond directly to you, Chris.
David
David Rundle
City Councillor (LibDem), Headington Ward
More information on http://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/news.cfm/container/496/pagenum/1/item/2859 quote from above url A number of trees in Bury Knowle Park will require some arboricultural work. This work will include crown reduction, heavy pruning, pollarding and, where absolutely necessary, felling. endquote and at the end Councillor Bob Price, Leader of Oxford City Council, says: "The council will obviously be careful to observe all safety advice, but officers have been instructed to inform local councillors in advance of any major tree works so that they can consult local residents and other groups endquote Would this forum qualify?
I don't know if Bury Knowle has a "Friends of Bury Knowle" group.
Headington Hill doesn't, but the parks service have known for some
time that there are one or two of us interested in getting one going.
But hey, they didn't consult about the play either, except in the
planning process, despite knowing that having the theatre company
there has in the past caused problems for other users of the park.
I'm not particularly precious about individual trees. They are
mostly beautiful, and often pleasantly surprising when you notice
something you hadn't before and so on, but I accept that they grow
and whither and die. But some specimens are practically "much loved"
landmarks. There does seem to be a difference between "consulting"
on the idea of taking some trees that need to come out down for
arboricultural reasons and hacking landmarks to pieces. Would a
notice for a few weeks on a tree that was marked for felling be
impossible? Specially if all this has been done over the course of
at least two years!
Health and Safety appears to be any government's excuse for taking
precautions to a ridiculous extent. Surely the social contract most
of us were brought up to believe is says there's responsibilities on
both sides, and that life involves some manageable risks.
Thanks to David Rundle. I did indeed very quickly get an email from an officer
who explained -
'The trees is Headington Hill Park were recently surveyed by our independent
surveyors who have recommended works within the park, including some felling.
Only trees that are dead, dying, diseased or dangerous and pose an unacceptable
risk to the users of the park are being removed.'
I suppose the only question is the one raised by Jock Coats, about a tree being
felled that didn't have the 'mark of death'. When I walked round the park
yesterday the tree pictured in Jock's blog was still there, but it looks like
the lime in Bonn Square did before it received the coup de grace.
One thing that did amuse me, the stage for A Midsummer Night's Dream being set
up within easy hearing range of the main road.
'I know a bank where the wild thyme blows,
Where oxlips and the nodding violet grows,
Quite over-canopied with luscious woodbine,
With sweet musk-roses and with eglantine,
And the X70 Heathrow rumbles up the hill'
On 9 Jul 2008, at 21:24, Chris Brewer wrote:
> Thanks to David Rundle. I did indeed very quickly get an email from
> an officer who explained -
>
> 'The trees is Headington Hill Park were recently surveyed by our
> independent surveyors who have recommended works within the park,
> including some felling. Only trees that are dead, dying, diseased
> or dangerous and pose an unacceptable risk to the users of the park
> are being removed.'
Which still doesn't really answer the question about that particular
chestnut - it is the standard reply that Councillor Tombs gave to the
Oxford Mail to boot. Every year, including this year, it has been
amongst the first of that species in the park to break into leaf and
to flower. It doesn't produce an enormous crop of conkers though,
but it's never had as much leaf infection as some of the ones further
round the Marston end of the park.
A month or so ago they already took off the only bough that could
possibly have fallen over the path a short distance away so one would
be forgiven for thinking that measures had already been taken to make
it safe. It is possible I suppose that it has suffered in the past
two years because of the changes to the drainage pathways they've
made in the park. If so, that needs to be discovered so that they
can take such an effect into account if they ever tinker with the
drainage again.
I have walked all the way round that stump and cannot see a red
cross. I acknowledge the one I got upset about up near the Cuckoo
Lane gate did in fact have a red cross on it, just painted on the
side nobody would see unless they walked round the side of the tree
away from the path. But the first one they cut up there didn't have
a cross either.
This was a tree, if I recall correctly, that was mentioned in some
descriptions I had found of "walking tours" round the park on the web
- anyone would agree that by its position and the fact that it was on
its own in the open it was pretty much a landmark in the park. I
think it would be helpful to know what definition of "risk" and
"unacceptable" they, or their insurers presumably, work to, because
clearly (I haven't counted the rings) this stout tree had been there
and pretty much unchanged for many years - the most recent hole in
the side of the trunk where a significant bough had last been taken
off or fallen off was itself decades old - and presumably not harmed
anyone yet. It sounds like it might be the same definition they use
to determine whether a tomb stone my topple and kill anyone lying in
the way!
Anyway, it's too late now I guess; who would have imagined ever
hearing me mourning a tree though! That stump would be nice carved
into something and left where it is. Nothing they can plant will be
as dominating even as the remaining stump for many more years. Carve
it and then plant a circle of something around it so when they grow
the carving appears inside a ring of trees or something.
> One thing that did amuse me, the stage for A Midsummer Night's
> Dream being set up within easy hearing range of the main road.
Not half as amusing, in context, as having Puck compete with
Fortinbras's army band in Harcourt House on the other "stage" last
night!
The only parks in Headington and Marston which appear to have official "friends" are: Milham Ford Park Quarry Hollow Park You can become Friends of Parks here on the Oxford City Council website: http://www.oxford.gov.uk/websitetools/bespoke-forms.cfm/bespokeform/21 But do "Friends" have any more power to stop the chainsaws than local councillors and residents' organizations, who are usually informed about what is going to take place? And what argument can amateurs use if they are told a tree is unsafe? There was a letter in last night's Oxford Mail about the current excessive tree-felling in Headington Park (it was unclear whether Bury Knowle or Headington Hill Park was meant), and it suggested it was a good thing to leave trees alone, as they do in the University Parks. But some of these topple every time there is a storm.
I suspect it is very much what a "friends" group wants to make of
it. When I contacted the city council parks department obviously had
some remit and/or budget to assist setting up friends groups and I
imagine in an active friends group, such as the one at Cutteslowe,
they can get a fair amount done - I believe it is the "friends" at
Cutteslowe who organize things like the concerts of which there was
one a couple of weekends ago and so on.
So I imagine parks department would keep them informed. But by
definition I suspect there are no formal "powers" involved, just a
group that can act as a consultative body and who can get things
organized for themselves.