All posts in the topic GDP, economic growth and Waiting Lists (Short link)

Oct 30 09:13 UTC

Interesting issue being debated here - unfortunately I seem to only get the
drips and drabs...

I seem to remember Michael stating something to the effect that he would
like to see continued GDP growth - and that some within the Green movement
seem to think GDP growth is some sort of sin.

Paul, to put it in a nutshell, you want this country to protect those who
cannot develop within our "knowledge" economy. The ways you have suggested
won't work - because they only create a demand for more social workers.

The answer - in the days of lower GDP - was to farm the rejects out to
village farms, to the merchant service (and the navy, which rounded up
whomsoever they required!) or the army. All were good solutions to mopping
up excess unskilled labour.

Today though, we don't have a merchant marine - our wages were too high to
compete against Filipinos or Indonesians - and village farms could not meet
the needs of our poor because they survive better on the dole in larger
centres where at least they had a social life. Fellow humans being much more
satisfying than farm animals! And the military draft was dumped and today's
army - and navy - don't want society's dregs - they want technicians!

So, we still have societal failures - but with no means of putting them
anywhere useful. I have, in the past suggested we flick them off to form the
Tasmanian volunteer reserve - where they then get shipped off en masse to,
say, Rwanda. Give them an allowance of about 1/4 of the dole (tax free
though, and it goes a lot further in Rwanda than in NZ) and leave them there
for a couple of years.... For some reason though, the Tasmanians aren't too
pleased with the concept... (Although the rest of Australia seems quite
happy...)

I take argument with your comments that "In times of economic growth there
tend to be layoffs of unskilled workers as more jobs get automated or
shipped off-shore to low-wage economies." In fact, we have very low
productivity in NZ. Some of it is structural - like, we don't have large
markets for finished products in NZ. How many jobs are there in NZ where
nuts and bolts to assemble a final product are counted out by individual
workers standing at a bench and put into little plastic bags and Sellotaped
to part of the product? That is LOW productivity! Contrast that to, say,
Germany where those same bolts are sent down a funnel where they are
automatically weighed and packed - and molded into the final product
packaging that not only acts to protect the paintwork but doubles as
packaging suitable for stacking, palleting and shipping? That job could be
managed by some intellectually retarded Chimpanzee - if he was trained to
flick a switch or something at the appropriate time! And that Chimp could do
say a zillion a day - our poor Kiwi unskilled worked would be lucky to count
a few hundred a day. And he'd have sore bloody feet and backpain!

Then, to lower productivity even more, we have a set of compliance issues to
meet - like health and safety, holiday pay, ACC levies, the KiwiSaver
employer surcharge, insurance, - all for a guy who is counting out a few
bolts and sticking them into a little plastic bag!

But, that is not the worst of it. You see, the H&S officer is not
"producing" - we have a huge public service issuing instructions on how to
enter and exit your truck. (Yes! I saw the instructions just the other day!)
And making regulations about the type of light bulb we must buy.... It is
not "technology and knowledge" that our unskilled lack - it is a surfeit of
so-called professionals making up new regulations and rules that are
reducing productivity. Oh, you may argue that it is making the work place
safer - maybe it is, but if so-called unskilled workers were allowed to
develop their skills - and you can't if you stand at a work bench counting
bloody bolts - then they would develop the skills they need to SAFELY lift
productivity. However, to lift the productivity their bosses also have to
invest in machinery. Sadly, bosses don't do this very often. There are
reasons for this. It costs a lot and capital expenditure cannot be written
off in the year of purchase, nor can it be made redundant if sales decline,
and frankly, the market is too darn small to automate anything - so we are
stuck with unskilled workers standing all day at a bench counting out bolts
and putting them into little plastic bags..... Except, of course, we can
forgo the whole process and buy a few in from China, India, Cambodia or
Vietnam....

If we keep lowering our standard of living to satisfy the desires of
reducing carbon footprints, coal ash drifting across to Chile, and carbon
taxes on livestock then - as Michael points out - we will be reducing our
standard of living for our descendants. Do they really want that?

I don't know much about economics or evolutionary psychology - but Adam
Smith seemed to have set a pretty basic hierarchy: Selfish me, selfish
family, selfish neighbourhood, selfish country... or something like that.
Where by everyone trying to satisfy themselves they end up more or less
satisfying everyone. I don't think that that would define Capitalism - but
it wouldn't define Socialism either....

Just like attempts to save the world's oil by riding a bicycle,
altruistically helping others does nothing to raise productivity or one's
standard of living - unless, of course, one gets a sense of reward from it.
Maybe that is why there are so many nurses, doctors, social workers,
lawyers... police..... policy analysts.... OSH inspectors..... it cannot be
pure altruism? Surely?

Just wondering,
Cheers,
Tim Kerr.

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