Comparing the USA in 2018 with Germany in the 1930s

A poster said "See you in the concentration camp when the Trump folks usher in
the Fourth Reich" over on the MN Politics forum. (http://tinyurl.com/y9wldcj9)

Is the right is trying to prevent people from entering the country (and hence
the detention facilities? Or is that a ruse, and the right has some genocidal
plans? Is there evidence for the latter?

While immigrants, illegal or those seeking asylum, are voluntarily exposing
themselves to danger and not herded into gas chambers to die by agents of
Trump, when you rip apart nuclear families, you are virtually guaranteeing a
shortened and more miserable life for all (numerous accounts from health
experts); even those who must interact with those traumatized are affected.

Trump has said on several occasions that we are as bad as all those other
countries who have killed and done horrible things to people, but barring that
capacity in all human beings, most Americans like to think we treat all,
perceived friends and enemies alike, humanely. Many folks have tried to explain
this to Trump, some of whom have written accounts (see A Higher Loyalty by
James Comey). It is lost on Trump and his alt-right supporters and enablers.
Hence these threads of John Gaylord.

We’ll see if America can avoid becoming this century’s fascist nightmare, but
that really depends on whether we can restore all that has been damaged or
destroyed of our once functioning democratic republic before Trump and the
Republicans finish off what’s left of it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:20 AM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>
> Is the right is trying to prevent people from entering the country (and
hence the detention facilities? Or is that a ruse, and the right has some
genocidal plans? Is there evidence for the latter?

The real question for me, is what will I do. Have you ever asked yourself,
what would I have done if I were alive during in imprisonment of Japanese
citizens? If I was a German or Polish citizen during the war and knew about
the camps or the Warsaw ghetto? If I was a Roman citizen when Slavery was
being introduced? If I was a southern citizen when the auctions were being
held in my town, or lynchings were commonplace?

The issue is not if what is going on now is the same, or if direct comparisons,
or distinctions can be drawn, two historical moments are never identical. As a
moral citizen we all must decide how to live our lives, what we want to be able
to live with, what we want our grandchildren to be able to know about us.

This is such a historical moment. The world will record how Americans behaved.
There will be heroes, there will be villains, there will be those who were
complicit, and those who were silent. Who do you want to be? Who are you?

David Tilsen
612-281-8576 mobile
612-823-8169 land line
Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>>
wrote:
>
> While immigrants, illegal or those seeking asylum, are voluntarily exposing
themselves to danger and not herded into gas chambers to die by agents of
Trump, when you rip apart nuclear families, you are virtually guaranteeing a
shortened and more miserable life for all (numerous accounts from health
experts); even those who must interact with those traumatized are affected.
>
> Trump has said on several occasions that we are as bad as all those other
countries who have killed and done horrible things to people, but barring that
capacity in all human beings, most Americans like to think we treat all,
perceived friends and enemies alike, humanely. Many folks have tried to explain
this to Trump, some of whom have written accounts (see A Higher Loyalty by
James Comey). It is lost on Trump and his alt-right supporters and enablers.
Hence these threads of John Gaylord.
>
> We’ll see if America can avoid becoming this century’s fascist nightmare,
but that really depends on whether we can restore all that has been damaged or
destroyed of our once functioning democratic republic before Trump and the
Republicans finish off what’s left of it.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:20 AM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Is the right is trying to prevent people from entering the country (and
hence the detention facilities? Or is that a ruse, and the right has some
genocidal plans? Is there evidence for the latter?
>
>
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
>
> Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us/charter
> You may post only once every 12 hours - no corrections, etc.
> Complaints to: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/29N4occNJjzw5x8MuznSAi

Rest of post

I read a super-powerful poem on this very theme in church one day a couple
of years ago and I can't remember the title or the poet and I can't find
it. Dang.

Debra Keefer Ramage

While there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal
element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

-Eugene Victor Debs

Rest of post

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>> wrote:

> The real question for me, is what will I do. Have you ever asked
> yourself, what would I have done if I were alive during in imprisonment of
> Japanese citizens? If I was a German or Polish citizen during the war and
> knew about the camps or the Warsaw ghetto? If I was a Roman citizen when
> Slavery was being introduced? If I was a southern citizen when the
> auctions were being held in my town, or lynchings were commonplace?
>
> The issue is not if what is going on now is the same, or if direct
> comparisons, or distinctions can be drawn, two historical moments are never
> identical. As a moral citizen we all must decide how to live our lives,
> what we want to be able to live with, what we want our grandchildren to be
> able to know about us.
>
> This is such a historical moment. The world will record how Americans
> behaved. There will be heroes, there will be villains, there will be those
> who were complicit, and those who were silent. Who do you want to be? Who
> are you?
>
> David Tilsen
> 612-281-8576 mobile
> 612-823-8169 land line
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>-
> democracy.org> wrote:
> >
> > While immigrants, illegal or those seeking asylum, are voluntarily
> exposing themselves to danger and not herded into gas chambers to die by
> agents of Trump, when you rip apart nuclear families, you are virtually
> guaranteeing a shortened and more miserable life for all (numerous accounts
> from health experts); even those who must interact with those traumatized
> are affected.
> >
> > Trump has said on several occasions that we are as bad as all those
> other countries who have killed and done horrible things to people, but
> barring that capacity in all human beings, most Americans like to think we
> treat all, perceived friends and enemies alike, humanely. Many folks have
> tried to explain this to Trump, some of whom have written accounts (see A
> Higher Loyalty by James Comey). It is lost on Trump and his alt-right
> supporters and enablers. Hence these threads of John Gaylord.
> >
> > We’ll see if America can avoid becoming this century’s fascist
> nightmare, but that really depends on whether we can restore all that has
> been damaged or destroyed of our once functioning democratic republic
> before Trump and the Republicans finish off what’s left of it.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:20 AM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Is the right is trying to prevent people from entering the country
> (and hence the detention facilities? Or is that a ruse, and the right has
> some genocidal plans? Is there evidence for the latter?
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill Kahn
> > PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
> encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
> tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> > About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
> >
> >
> > Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us/charter
> > You may post only once every 12 hours - no corrections, etc.
> > Complaints to: <email obscured>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> > Reply: Reply-All or visit http://forums.e-democracy.org/
> r/topic/29N4occNJjzw5x8MuznSAi
> > New Topic: us@forums.e-democracy.org
> > Digest: Subject: digest on
> > Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
>

Oh, I found it!

http://jocsm.org/if-you-could-go-back/
<http://jocsm.org/if-you-could-go-back/>

*By Danny Bryck*

I know, I know
If you could go back you
would walk with Jesus
You would march with King
Maybe assassinate Hitler
At least hide Jews in your basement
It would all be clear to you
But people then, just like you
were baffled, had bills
to pay and children they didn’t
understand and they too
were so desperate for normalcy
they made anything normal
Even turning everything inside out
Even killing, and killing, and it’s easy
for turning the other cheek
to be looking the other way, for walking
to be talking, and they hid
in their houses
and watched it on television, when they had television,
and wrung their hands
or didn’t, and your hands
are just like theirs. Lined, permeable,
small, and you
would follow Caesar, and quote McCarthy, and Hoover, and you would want
to make Germany great again
Because you are afraid, and your
parents are sick, and your
job pays shit and where’s your
dignity? Just a little dignity and those kids sitting down in the highway,
and chaining themselves to
buildings, what’s their fucking problem? And that kid
That’s King. And this is Selma. And Berlin. And Jerusalem. And now
is when they need you to be brave.
Now
is when we need you to go back
and forget everything you know
and give up the things you’re chained to
and make it look so easy in your
grandkids’ history books (they should still have them, kinehora)
Now
is when it will all be clear to them.

Rest of post

Debra Keefer Ramage

While there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal
element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.

-Eugene Victor Debs

On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:37 AM, Debra Keefer Ramage <<email obscured>>
wrote:

> I read a super-powerful poem on this very theme in church one day a couple
> of years ago and I can't remember the title or the poet and I can't find
> it. Dang.
>
> Debra Keefer Ramage
>
> While there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal
> element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
>
> -Eugene Victor Debs
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Dave Tilsen <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>> The real question for me, is what will I do. Have you ever asked
>> yourself, what would I have done if I were alive during in imprisonment of
>> Japanese citizens? If I was a German or Polish citizen during the war and
>> knew about the camps or the Warsaw ghetto? If I was a Roman citizen when
>> Slavery was being introduced? If I was a southern citizen when the
>> auctions were being held in my town, or lynchings were commonplace?
>>
>> The issue is not if what is going on now is the same, or if direct
>> comparisons, or distinctions can be drawn, two historical moments are never
>> identical. As a moral citizen we all must decide how to live our lives,
>> what we want to be able to live with, what we want our grandchildren to be
>> able to know about us.
>>
>> This is such a historical moment. The world will record how Americans
>> behaved. There will be heroes, there will be villains, there will be those
>> who were complicit, and those who were silent. Who do you want to be? Who
>> are you?
>>
>> David Tilsen
>> 612-281-8576 mobile
>> 612-823-8169 land line
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:41 AM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>-democracy
>> .org> wrote:
>> >
>> > While immigrants, illegal or those seeking asylum, are voluntarily
>> exposing themselves to danger and not herded into gas chambers to die by
>> agents of Trump, when you rip apart nuclear families, you are virtually
>> guaranteeing a shortened and more miserable life for all (numerous accounts
>> from health experts); even those who must interact with those traumatized
>> are affected.
>> >
>> > Trump has said on several occasions that we are as bad as all those
>> other countries who have killed and done horrible things to people, but
>> barring that capacity in all human beings, most Americans like to think we
>> treat all, perceived friends and enemies alike, humanely. Many folks have
>> tried to explain this to Trump, some of whom have written accounts (see A
>> Higher Loyalty by James Comey). It is lost on Trump and his alt-right
>> supporters and enablers. Hence these threads of John Gaylord.
>> >
>> > We’ll see if America can avoid becoming this century’s fascist
>> nightmare, but that really depends on whether we can restore all that has
>> been damaged or destroyed of our once functioning democratic republic
>> before Trump and the Republicans finish off what’s left of it.
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On Jun 28, 2018, at 10:20 AM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is the right is trying to prevent people from entering the country
>> (and hence the detention facilities? Or is that a ruse, and the right has
>> some genocidal plans? Is there evidence for the latter?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Bill Kahn
>> > PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
>> encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
>> tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
>> > About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>> >
>> >
>> > Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us/charter
>> > You may post only once every 12 hours - no corrections, etc.
>> > Complaints to: <email obscured>
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> > Reply: Reply-All or visit http://forums.e-democracy.org/
>> r/topic/29N4occNJjzw5x8MuznSAi
>> > New Topic: us@forums.e-democracy.org
>> > Digest: Subject: digest on
>> > Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
>> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>> >
>> >

"Is the right trying to prevent people from entering the country (and hence the
detention facilities)? Or is that a ruse, and the right has some genocidal
plans? Is there evidence for the latter?"

If the right is try to prevent people from entering illegally, then they are
actively trying to avoid situations where families would need to be separated.

If you are suggesting Republicans favor genocide, or rounding up minorities or
immigrants in concentration camps, a little evidence would be the polite thing
to provide. Without evidence, comparing Trump to Hitler seems like a losing
political tactic.

There are several countries where democracies have turned or are turning
into one man dictatorships. Mainly racist and fascist, Erdogan in Turkey,
Duterte in the Phillipines, Putin in Russia, the new govt in Hungary. Look at
the Golden Dawn party in Greece. What does their insignia remind you of?

As somebody said on CNN "those who don't remember history are condemned to
re-tweet it".

Ed Fesler <email obscured>. Minneapolis.
On Thursday, June 28, 2018, 2:20:56 PM CDT, John Gaylord
<<email obscured>> wrote:

"Is the right trying to prevent people from entering the country (and hence
the detention facilities)? Or is that a ruse, and the right has some genocidal
plans? Is there evidence for the latter?"

If the right is try to prevent people from entering illegally, then they are
actively trying to avoid situations where families would need to be separated.

If you are suggesting Republicans favor genocide, or rounding up minorities or
immigrants in concentration camps, a little evidence would be the polite thing
to provide. Without evidence, comparing Trump to Hitler seems like a losing
political tactic.

John Gaylord
Union Park, St. Paul
About/contact John Gaylord: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johngaylord

Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us/charter
You may post only once every 12 hours - no corrections, etc.
Complaints to: <email obscured>

Rest of post

Here's something that's very concerning to me and is evidence that neo-nazis,
or at least supporters of the neo-Nazi movement, have infiltrated the
Department of Homeland Security. Check out this from the DHS website -
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/02/15/we-must-secure-border-and-build-wall-make-america-safe-again

Note that the opening line is 14 words - the same number in the infamous
neo-Nazi "14 word" statement. That could be a coincidence, but it also starts
with "We must secure the..." that phrasing is identical.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words)

Furthermore, look at the statistic "On average, out of 88 claims that pass the
credible fear screening, fewer than 13 will ultimately result in a grant of
asylum." Out of 88? Who uses 88 as a benchmark? That would seem an odd number,
but again it's neo-nazi code. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet and 88 is
code for "Heil Hitler."

Proof that the Trump administration is overrun with neo-Nazis? Perhaps not, but
it is disturbing evidence that something is amiss. It's high unlikely that the
"14 words" and us of 88 are coincidences. The more likely explanation is that
they're dog whistles to the extreme right.

They encourage members to go into law enforcement, something that must be
countered with better vetting across our federal system from local to the tip
top at DOJ where we may have quite a problem attorney general.

Sent from my iPhone

Rest of post

If I understand it, there is a secret program to recruit Neo-Nazis into law
enforcement by communicating via numeric signals hidden in the titles of, and
statistics in, DHS press releases?

Years ago the FBI issued a warning that white supremacists were infiltrating
law enforcement. It’s also known that around half a dozen Minneapolis Police
Officers are members of City Heat, a motorcycle club made up of Police Officers
that also has a branch in Chicago. Members of City Heat have been photographed
wearing racist paraphernalia (KKK emblems, “No Blacks” patches, etc.). Or, at
the very least, that was alleged in a lawsuit filed by black officers against
the city of Minneapolis.

I point this out because the phrasing on that press release doesn’t come in a
vacuum. Regardless, no, I don’t think that document is part of a “secret
program to recruit Neo-Nazis.” It may, however, be a dog whistle letting people
know they have friends in high places.

Then again, it might be a very odd coincidence. The phrasing and use of 88
could be an accident. A single document doesn’t mean much. If people start to
see a pattern, though, and there are other examples of this that come forth
there may be something more to it.

Fair enough. So far, there is zero actual evidence that we are headed down the
path of 1930s Germany. It light of that (unless some evidence is offered), can
we agree that it is quite inflammatory, potentially dangerous, and certainly
unhelpful to post things like "See you in the concentration camp when the Trump
folks usher in the Fourth Reich"? (http://tinyurl.com/y9wldcj9)

Here's what I wrote two years ago in Southside Pride:

Are you concerned that the number of hillbilly militias, racist rednecks with
assault rifles, has grown from a little over a hundred groups to more than a
thousand groups in the last few years?
Are you concerned that the FBI warned in 2006 that white supremacists have
infiltrated local police departments?
From The Holocaust Museum, Encyclopedia:
“The Nazi state in fact alleviated many of the frustrations the police
experienced in the Weimar Republic. The Nazis shielded the police from public
criticism by censoring the press. They ended street fighting by eliminating the
Communist threat. Police manpower was even extended by the incorporation of
Nazi paramilitary organizations as auxiliary policemen. The Nazis centralized
and fully funded the police to better combat criminal gangs and promote state
security. The Nazi state increased staff and training, and modernized police
equipment. The Nazis offered the police the broadest latitude in arrests,
incarceration, and the treatment of prisoners. The police moved to take
‘preventive action,’ that is, to make arrests without the evidence required for
a conviction in court and indeed without court supervision at all.
“Conservative policemen were initially satisfied with the results of their
cooperation with the Nazi state. Crime did indeed go down and the operation of
criminal gangs ended. Order was restored. But there was a price. The Nazi state
was not a restoration of the imperial tradition. It was at its core thoroughly
racist. The Nazis took control and transformed the traditional police forces of
the Weimar Republic into an instrument of state repression and, eventually, of
genocide.
“The Nazi state fused the police with the SS and Security Service
(Sicherheitsdienst; SD), two of the most radical and ideologically committed
Nazi organizations. Heinrich Himmler, head of the SS, also became the chief of
all German police forces. His associate, Reinhard Heydrich of the SD, became at
the same time the head of the Security Police, charged with safeguarding the
Nazi regime. Nazi ideology became part of all police activities. The police
were central figures not just in maintaining public order, but in combating the
so-called racial enemies designated by the Nazi state. It was in this context
that ‘preventive police action’ took on such terrible consequences. The SS, SD,
and police were the primary perpetrators of the Holocaust.”
The Know Nothings are the oldest racist and anti-immigrant organization in
America. Before the Civil War they fought against the immigration of German
and Irish Catholics. If members were asked about their involvement in the
often violent actions of the group, the members responded, “I know nothing,”
which could also mean, “I, Know Nothing” (or, I am a Know Nothing). After the
Civil War the organization evolved into the Ku Klux Klan, the Invisible Empire,
and continued their tradition of secrecy.
Donald Trump, when asked about Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke’s
enthusiastic endorsement of him, said, “I don’t know, did he endorse me or
what’s going on, because, you know, I know nothing about David Duke. I know
nothing about white supremacists. And so you’re asking me a question that I’m
supposed to be talking about people that I know nothing about. …”
Donald Trump’s father and mentor, Fred Trump, was arrested in 1927 for fighting
with police and refusing to take off his white robe at a Ku Klux Klan rally in
Queens, New York. In 1973 Fred Trump was sued by the Justice Department for
refusing to rent to African Americans. Woody Guthrie wrote: “I suppose Old Man
Trump knows just how much racial hate he stirred up in the bloodpot of human
hearts when he drawed that color line here at his eighteen hundred family
project.”
Are you concerned about the Minneapolis Police Department’s execution of
Terrance Franklin and Jamar Clark?
Are you concerned about the two white suburban men who harassed Black Lives
Matter demonstrators in North Minneapolis and shot and injured five of them
last November?
Does any of this seem to fit into a pattern of an evolving right-wing terrorist
state?
Is this something we should be worried about?

Rest of post

________________________________
From: United States Issues Forum <us@forums.e-democracy.org> on behalf of Jim
McGuire <<email obscured>>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 3:49 AM
To: us@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [US] Comparing the USA in 2018 with Germany in the 1930s

Years ago the FBI issued a warning that white supremacists were infiltrating
law enforcement. It’s also known that around half a dozen Minneapolis Police
Officers are members of City Heat, a motorcycle club made up of Police Officers
that also has a branch in Chicago. Members of City Heat have been photographed
wearing racist paraphernalia (KKK emblems, “No Blacks” patches, etc.). Or, at
the very least, that was alleged in a lawsuit filed by black officers against
the city of Minneapolis.

I point this out because the phrasing on that press release doesn’t come in a
vacuum. Regardless, no, I don’t think that document is part of a “secret
program to recruit Neo-Nazis.” It may, however, be a dog whistle letting people
know they have friends in high places.

Then again, it might be a very odd coincidence. The phrasing and use of 88
could be an accident. A single document doesn’t mean much. If people start to
see a pattern, though, and there are other examples of this that come forth
there may be something more to it.

Jim McGuire
SE Como, Minneapolis
About/contact Jim McGuire:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi

Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
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Complaints to: <email obscured>

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Yes, such words are helpful. Dangerous? Absolutely, but had that necessary
comparison begun earlier in a democratic republic that used to function as
envisioned by the founders, helpful to America. Not helpful to Trump, to the
sycophancy and duplicity surrounding him, but to those Americans who wish to
stem the tide of the new fascism, very helpful.

Trump and his dutiful Republicans may all be gone eventually, hopefully leaving
something salvageable with which to rebuild. We don’t get the chance to go back
and prevent a Hitler from taking the Weimar Republic down, terrorizing,
upending, enslaving and the ending the human targets of his bigoted movement,
but we’re living our own American nightmare along with the rest of the world.
What fascism rises here can be many times worse than the Third Reich was.

So we have come full circle when those who choose to forget or live in
ignorance of how fascism gains a foothold and takes over. We can send Trump
away to his own unique ex-POTUS Land (a new Burnett reality series?) and show
his ilk, the Republican Party, the exit door as well or we can usher in the new
Reich.

When I go to a St. Paul restaurant and hear two Trump supporters talk about the
*success* of Trump’s talk with Kim Jong Un, offering one another “absolutely no
evidence” on something even Trump has had to walk back a long ways, I know
we’re on our own American road to unique horrors of the 21st Century. If not
for them, I would have simply enjoyed some good Pho, but Trump can even screw
that up. Was this a den of the new Sons of Liberty or had this nice place for
lunch turned into a fascist’s lair? May depend on your party affiliation, I
guess, but to me, it is two fascists finding one another; there are more of
them out there who need to study some undoctored history, look in the mirror,
and decide who and what they are.

John Gaylord will likely find a niche in the American Reich, what many of us
could never do; that means we will and must help all we can to nip it in the
bud, now. It can happen here and it may be well underway.

I don’t care a wit what John sees as evidence. News people all over the world
are murdered while providing us evidence, murdered by those who choose to keep
all in darkness. Does Trump publicly utter “inflammatory, potentially
dangerous, and certainly unhelpful” stuff to make the Press, safer? Whatever
his reasons, they continue to die because people want them dead. “Fake news!
Fake news!” MAGA. Dead newspaper folks in Maryland. All the evidence I need.

Both major parties are being torn apart and remade, but as the saying goes,
“you can’t make a silk purse ...”

November, November, and November creeps in this petty pace from election day to
election day to the last syllable of recorded time ... American Dream, American
Experiment, American Reich, American Idiot (Green Day song, I think, a tale
told by ...) ... vote. Vote well. It matters. See you wherever I wind up or
maybe I won’t be there, maybe you won’t. Pretend some night to see and hear a
ghost of any American risen up from a trap door at some version of the Olde
Globe saying, “Vote.” Or maybe MAGA.

The Midterms are coming! The Midterms are coming! Register to vote. Republicans
are taking your names off the election rolls with the Help of their packed
Supreme Court, so put them back so you can vote them out.

This is what happens when John Gaylord starts a forum topic thread. My
apologies to William Shakespeare, whomever that is.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2018, at 9:37 AM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Fair enough. So far, there is zero actual evidence that we are headed down
the path of 1930s Germany. It light of that (unless some evidence is offered),
can we agree that it is quite inflammatory, potentially dangerous, and
certainly unhelpful to post things like "See you in the concentration camp when
the Trump folks usher in the Fourth Reich"? (http://tinyurl.com/y9wldcj9)

Ed,

You could just as easily compile a list of violent acts to implicate any group
you care to. Even so, it's a huge leap from rednecks and hillbillies to Nazi
Germany. You jump from an arguable stat probably derived from the SPLC right to
the Holocaust Museum, with nary a connecting thread.

Bill,

Your post simply begs the question. Which newspeople 'all over the world' are
murdered by neo-Nazis? What if any, real evidence is there that we are going
down the path of 1930s Germany? Your post sounds like you observe perfectly
innocuous people, yet to you two people talking in a restaurant are "fascists"!
John Gaylord is a fascist!

You are trying to force fit the many things that are going on into a Nazi
resurgence theory. You say "I don’t care a wit what John sees as evidence"
which is convenient, because you can't show any evidence.

You’re practically ranting, John.

I have been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a fascist
takeover or further damage, perhaps irreparable, to our democratic republic.

I don’t think you are a fascist, John. Given our rules, I cannot post what I
think you are.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2018, at 4:54 PM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
> You could just as easily compile a list of violent acts to implicate any
group you care to. Even so, it's a huge leap from rednecks and hillbillies to
Nazi Germany. You jump from an arguable stat probably derived from the SPLC
right to the Holocaust Museum, with nary a connecting thread.
>
> Bill,
>
> Your post simply begs the question. Which newspeople 'all over the world' are
murdered by neo-Nazis? What if any, real evidence is there that we are going
down the path of 1930s Germany? Your post sounds like you observe perfectly
innocuous people, yet to you two people talking in a restaurant are "fascists"!
John Gaylord is a fascist!
>
> You are trying to force fit the many things that are going on into a Nazi
resurgence theory. You say "I don’t care a wit what John sees as evidence"
which is convenient, because you can't show any evidence.

Hi Bill,

You have indeed 'been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a
fascist takeover' - you just haven't offered any evidence that it is occurring,
which was my question.

‘Hi John’

I don’t know what more evidence would convince you or any other Republican
following the current Trump game plan that we are in danger, but the signs are
there; willful ignorance of the news and current state of our democratic
republic is certainly a necessary component of a uniquely American fascism to
emerge, dominate and prevail over what’s left of our democratic form of guvmit.
The election of Donald Trump is one step of many in the fall of the United
States of America to the will of both Trump supporters, his collaborators in
Congress, and Russia. You don’t have to call it fascism if you don’t, can’t or
won’t, John, but you are a big part of it now.

I hope it won’t happen and my biggest hopes are with those voters who believe
in our country, not some Trump pipe dream, and flip Congress the the Democrats
to begin damage control and stem the fascist tide.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:29 PM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> You have indeed 'been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a
fascist takeover' - you just haven't offered any evidence that it is occurring,
which was my question.

Merriam-Webster offers 2 definitions of fascism:

- 1: A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of
the *Fascisti
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Fascists> that exalts nation
and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized
autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and
social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
- 2 : A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
dictatorial control.

So let's evaluate the claims above:

- "A political philosophy, movement, or regime." The word "movement"
fits Trumpism.
- "...that exalts nation and often race above the individual." The
phrase certainly seems to fit some of Trump's adherents. I'm not sure it
fits Trump himself on a consistent basis.
- "...that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a
dictatorial leader." This certainly doesn't fit, though if as John says
Bill "has been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a fascist
takeover," then the statement of the "danger of a fascist takeover" could
apply to any U.S. President at any time in the nation's history. Let's not
forget that Republicans were accusing Obama of this for 8 years, and
Democrats were accusing W. of this for the previous 8 years, not to mention
that many accused Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, FDR, and other presidents of
the same throughout American history.
- "...severe economic and social regimentation" means "strict discipline
and enforced uniformity characteristic of military groups or totalitarian
systems." This clearly doesn't apply. Many fascist groups like the Nazis
had something similar to the Schutzstaffel (SS), which began with a small
party volunteer security guard unit or paramilitary formation known as
the Saal-Schutz ("Hall Security") to provide security for meetings but grew
to become one of the most powerful organizations in Nazi Germany. To the
best of my knowledge, Trump has not created such a unit, and such a unit
doesn't exist in the GOP.
- "...forcible suppression of opposition." I guess you could always find
some evidence to support this statement.
- "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
dictatorial control." If "autocratic" means "taking no account of other
people's wishes or opinions or being domineering," then the phrase might
fit.

In other words, if Bill is saying that Trump has a tendency of being
domineering or a tendency toward or actual exercise of taking no account of
other people's wishes or opinions, then he's likely right under the 2nd
definition of Merriam-Webster.

But that is a far cry from stating that the 2018 Trumpist-dominated
Republican Party and the 1930s German Nazi Party are similar, as I note in
my other points above.

On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>

Rest of post

> wrote:

> ‘Hi John’
>
> I don’t know what more evidence would convince you or any other Republican
> following the current Trump game plan that we are in danger, but the signs
> are there; willful ignorance of the news and current state of our
> democratic republic is certainly a necessary component of a uniquely
> American fascism to emerge, dominate and prevail over what’s left of our
> democratic form of guvmit. The election of Donald Trump is one step of many
> in the fall of the United States of America to the will of both Trump
> supporters, his collaborators in Congress, and Russia. You don’t have to
> call it fascism if you don’t, can’t or won’t, John, but you are a big part
> of it now.
>
> I hope it won’t happen and my biggest hopes are with those voters who
> believe in our country, not some Trump pipe dream, and flip Congress the
> the Democrats to begin damage control and stem the fascist tide.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:29 PM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > You have indeed 'been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of
> a fascist takeover' - you just haven't offered any evidence that it is
> occurring, which was my question.
>
>
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
> encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
> tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
>
> Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us/charter
> You may post only once every 12 hours - no corrections, etc.
> Complaints to: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit http://forums.e-democracy.org/
> r/topic/46Czl5a6opgZGlLKba9WKZ
> New Topic: us@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>

You know a thread and forum is in trouble when a new member feels it necessary
to quote the dictionary and go on ad nauseam on a subject our Republican
manager made up when he didn’t like references to a post in another forum about
a Minnesota town seeking a private prison in this age of Trump, then ignores
our rules to sign his name with his location.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/robert-reich-on-companies-profiting-from-family-separation/vp-AAz9sw8

The only similarities I see to our country and the Third Reich are a leader
diagnosed by experts (at their Duty to Warn conference with papers later
published as the book, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump) as a malignant
narcissist—different than Hitler in that he is his own Goebbels although more
in the vein of PT Barnum—with followers who often appear, sound and act like
Hitler’s brown shirts in their own uniquely American way.

We’re hardly talking about all POTUSes, but a few were malignant narcissists
(definitely Nixon, LBJ, but others you’d have to make the case as, if modern,
they’re under the radar and if otherwise, perhaps a common product of their
time).

The economic conditions of the Weimar Republic are not similar to ours, but
Trump has certainly painted them as such before and after his rise to power
(MAGA). If I were to seriously point out a historical parallel, it would be the
more mercenary of the business concerns of our military industrial
congressional complex that of course did not begin with Trump, but with Trump
and his cabinet, have reached a level unseen on Earth since the Nazis.

Get real. Literally, Mr. Companys.

Sent from my iPhone

Rest of post

> On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Yosem Companys <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Merriam-Webster offers 2 definitions of fascism:
>
> - 1: A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of
> the *Fascisti
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Fascists> that exalts nation
> and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized
> autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and
> social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
> - 2 : A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
> dictatorial control.
>
> So let's evaluate the claims above:
>
> - "A political philosophy, movement, or regime." The word "movement"
> fits Trumpism.
> - "...that exalts nation and often race above the individual." The
> phrase certainly seems to fit some of Trump's adherents. I'm not sure it
> fits Trump himself on a consistent basis.
> - "...that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a
> dictatorial leader." This certainly doesn't fit, though if as John says
> Bill "has been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a fascist
> takeover," then the statement of the "danger of a fascist takeover" could
> apply to any U.S. President at any time in the nation's history. Let's not
> forget that Republicans were accusing Obama of this for 8 years, and
> Democrats were accusing W. of this for the previous 8 years, not to mention
> that many accused Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, FDR, and other presidents of
> the same throughout American history.
> - "...severe economic and social regimentation" means "strict discipline
> and enforced uniformity characteristic of military groups or totalitarian
> systems." This clearly doesn't apply. Many fascist groups like the Nazis
> had something similar to the Schutzstaffel (SS), which began with a small
> party volunteer security guard unit or paramilitary formation known as
> the Saal-Schutz ("Hall Security") to provide security for meetings but grew
> to become one of the most powerful organizations in Nazi Germany. To the
> best of my knowledge, Trump has not created such a unit, and such a unit
> doesn't exist in the GOP.
> - "...forcible suppression of opposition." I guess you could always find
> some evidence to support this statement.
> - "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
> dictatorial control." If "autocratic" means "taking no account of other
> people's wishes or opinions or being domineering," then the phrase might
> fit.
>
> In other words, if Bill is saying that Trump has a tendency of being
> domineering or a tendency toward or actual exercise of taking no account of
> other people's wishes or opinions, then he's likely right under the 2nd
> definition of Merriam-Webster.
>
> But that is a far cry from stating that the 2018 Trumpist-dominated
> Republican Party and the 1930s German Nazi Party are similar, as I note in
> my other points above.
>
> On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>
>> wrote:
>
>> ‘Hi John’
>>
>> I don’t know what more evidence would convince you or any other Republican
>> following the current Trump game plan that we are in danger, but the signs
>> are there; willful ignorance of the news and current state of our
>> democratic republic is certainly a necessary component of a uniquely
>> American fascism to emerge, dominate and prevail over what’s left of our
>> democratic form of guvmit. The election of Donald Trump is one step of many
>> in the fall of the United States of America to the will of both Trump
>> supporters, his collaborators in Congress, and Russia. You don’t have to
>> call it fascism if you don’t, can’t or won’t, John, but you are a big part
>> of it now.
>>
>> I hope it won’t happen and my biggest hopes are with those voters who
>> believe in our country, not some Trump pipe dream, and flip Congress the
>> the Democrats to begin damage control and stem the fascist tide.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:29 PM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> You have indeed 'been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of
>> a fascist takeover' - you just haven't offered any evidence that it is
>> occurring, which was my question

Hi Bill,

Please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to offend you in any way with my
email.

First, I had no idea that there was a rule to state my name and location
explicitly in every email to the list, especially given that my name is
already listed as sender. In any case, my name is Yosem Companys, and my
location is Stanford, CA.

Also, I should note that I have been a list member for years, mostly as a
lurker.

Best,
Yosem

On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 6:45 AM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>

Rest of post

> wrote:

> You know a thread and forum is in trouble when a new member feels it
> necessary to quote the dictionary and go on ad nauseam on a subject our
> Republican manager made up when he didn’t like references to a post in
> another forum about a Minnesota town seeking a private prison in this age
> of Trump, then ignores our rules to sign his name with his location.
>
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/robert-reich-on-
> companies-profiting-from-family-separation/vp-AAz9sw8
>
> The only similarities I see to our country and the Third Reich are a
> leader diagnosed by experts (at their Duty to Warn conference with papers
> later published as the book, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump) as a
> malignant narcissist—different than Hitler in that he is his own Goebbels
> although more in the vein of PT Barnum—with followers who often appear,
> sound and act like Hitler’s brown shirts in their own uniquely American way.
>
> We’re hardly talking about all POTUSes, but a few were malignant
> narcissists (definitely Nixon, LBJ, but others you’d have to make the case
> as, if modern, they’re under the radar and if otherwise, perhaps a common
> product of their time).
>
> The economic conditions of the Weimar Republic are not similar to ours,
> but Trump has certainly painted them as such before and after his rise to
> power (MAGA). If I were to seriously point out a historical parallel, it
> would be the more mercenary of the business concerns of our military
> industrial congressional complex that of course did not begin with Trump,
> but with Trump and his cabinet, have reached a level unseen on Earth since
> the Nazis.
>
> Get real. Literally, Mr. Companys.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Yosem Companys <<email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > Merriam-Webster offers 2 definitions of fascism:
> >
> > - 1: A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of
> > the *Fascisti
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Fascists> that exalts nation
> > and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized
> > autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic
> and
> > social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
> > - 2 : A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
> > dictatorial control.
> >
> > So let's evaluate the claims above:
> >
> > - "A political philosophy, movement, or regime." The word "movement"
> > fits Trumpism.
> > - "...that exalts nation and often race above the individual." The
> > phrase certainly seems to fit some of Trump's adherents. I'm not sure
> it
> > fits Trump himself on a consistent basis.
> > - "...that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a
> > dictatorial leader." This certainly doesn't fit, though if as John says
> > Bill "has been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a
> fascist
> > takeover," then the statement of the "danger of a fascist takeover"
> could
> > apply to any U.S. President at any time in the nation's history. Let's
> not
> > forget that Republicans were accusing Obama of this for 8 years, and
> > Democrats were accusing W. of this for the previous 8 years, not to
> mention
> > that many accused Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, FDR, and other
> presidents of
> > the same throughout American history.
> > - "...severe economic and social regimentation" means "strict
> discipline
> > and enforced uniformity characteristic of military groups or
> totalitarian
> > systems." This clearly doesn't apply. Many fascist groups like the
> Nazis
> > had something similar to the Schutzstaffel (SS), which began with a
> small
> > party volunteer security guard unit or paramilitary formation known as
> > the Saal-Schutz ("Hall Security") to provide security for meetings but
> grew
> > to become one of the most powerful organizations in Nazi Germany. To
> the
> > best of my knowledge, Trump has not created such a unit, and such a
> unit
> > doesn't exist in the GOP.
> > - "...forcible suppression of opposition." I guess you could always
> find
> > some evidence to support this statement.
> > - "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
> > dictatorial control." If "autocratic" means "taking no account of other
> > people's wishes or opinions or being domineering," then the phrase
> might
> > fit.
> >
> > In other words, if Bill is saying that Trump has a tendency of being
> > domineering or a tendency toward or actual exercise of taking no account
> of
> > other people's wishes or opinions, then he's likely right under the 2nd
> > definition of Merriam-Webster.
> >
> > But that is a far cry from stating that the 2018 Trumpist-dominated
> > Republican Party and the 1930s German Nazi Party are similar, as I note
> in
> > my other points above.
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Bill Kahn <<email obscured>-
> democracy.org
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> ‘Hi John’
> >>
> >> I don’t know what more evidence would convince you or any other
> Republican
> >> following the current Trump game plan that we are in danger, but the
> signs
> >> are there; willful ignorance of the news and current state of our
> >> democratic republic is certainly a necessary component of a uniquely
> >> American fascism to emerge, dominate and prevail over what’s left of our
> >> democratic form of guvmit. The election of Donald Trump is one step of
> many
> >> in the fall of the United States of America to the will of both Trump
> >> supporters, his collaborators in Congress, and Russia. You don’t have to
> >> call it fascism if you don’t, can’t or won’t, John, but you are a big
> part
> >> of it now.
> >>
> >> I hope it won’t happen and my biggest hopes are with those voters who
> >> believe in our country, not some Trump pipe dream, and flip Congress the
> >> the Democrats to begin damage control and stem the fascist tide.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:29 PM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Bill,
> >>>
> >>> You have indeed 'been consistent throughout in identifying our danger
> of
> >> a fascist takeover' - you just haven't offered any evidence that it is
> >> occurring, which was my question
>
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
> encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
> tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
>
> Rules: Be civil - No name calling, personal attacks, etc.
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us/charter
> You may post only once every 12 hours - no corrections, etc.
> Complaints to: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit http://forums.e-democracy.org/
> r/topic/307HSNyPyL0vIU9p3BexAF
> New Topic: us@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/us
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>

Don’t sweat it, sir; aside from the rules that you can find through the support
links in every post emailed to you or at e-democracy.org, I don’t really have
personal issues with anyone on any forum, except maybe with our US forum
manager, John (this thread of his is really silly), who really has the
responsibility of guiding folks through the quirks. Last warning I had from him
was for complaining about his management on the forum. If you simply put your
info that you want known about yourself—all that’s required is your name and
city—in your profile, it will be included in your post automatically by the
server software auto-sign feature.

Thanks for writing,

Bill

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 8, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Yosem Companys <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to offend you in any way with my
email.
>
> First, I had no idea that there was a rule to state my name and location
explicitly in every email to the list, especially given that my name is already
listed as sender. In any case, my name is Yosem Companys, and my location is
Stanford, CA.
>
> Also, I should note that I have been a list member for years, mostly as a
lurker.
>
> Best,
> Yosem
>
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 6:45 AM, Bill Kahn
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>> You know a thread and forum is in trouble when a new member feels it
necessary to quote the dictionary and go on ad nauseam on a subject our
Republican manager made up when he didn’t like references to a post in another
forum about a Minnesota town seeking a private prison in this age of Trump,
then ignores our rules to sign his name with his location.
>>
>>
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/robert-reich-on-companies-profiting-from-family-separation/vp-AAz9sw8
>>
>> The only similarities I see to our country and the Third Reich are a leader
diagnosed by experts (at their Duty to Warn conference with papers later
published as the book, The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump) as a malignant
narcissist—different than Hitler in that he is his own Goebbels although more
in the vein of PT Barnum—with followers who often appear, sound and act like
Hitler’s brown shirts in their own uniquely American way.
>>
>> We’re hardly talking about all POTUSes, but a few were malignant narcissists
(definitely Nixon, LBJ, but others you’d have to make the case as, if modern,
they’re under the radar and if otherwise, perhaps a common product of their
time).
>>
>> The economic conditions of the Weimar Republic are not similar to ours, but
Trump has certainly painted them as such before and after his rise to power
(MAGA). If I were to seriously point out a historical parallel, it would be the
more mercenary of the business concerns of our military industrial
congressional complex that of course did not begin with Trump, but with Trump
and his cabinet, have reached a level unseen on Earth since the Nazis.
>>
>> Get real. Literally, Mr. Companys.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Jul 7, 2018, at 9:50 PM, Yosem Companys <<email obscured>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Merriam-Webster offers 2 definitions of fascism:
>> >
>> > - 1: A political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of
>> > the *Fascisti
>> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Fascists> that exalts nation
>> > and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized
>> > autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic
and
>> > social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
>> > - 2 : A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
>> > dictatorial control.
>> >
>> > So let's evaluate the claims above:
>> >
>> > - "A political philosophy, movement, or regime." The word "movement"
>> > fits Trumpism.
>> > - "...that exalts nation and often race above the individual." The
>> > phrase certainly seems to fit some of Trump's adherents. I'm not sure it
>> > fits Trump himself on a consistent basis.
>> > - "...that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a
>> > dictatorial leader." This certainly doesn't fit, though if as John says
>> > Bill "has been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of a
fascist
>> > takeover," then the statement of the "danger of a fascist takeover"
could
>> > apply to any U.S. President at any time in the nation's history. Let's
not
>> > forget that Republicans were accusing Obama of this for 8 years, and
>> > Democrats were accusing W. of this for the previous 8 years, not to
mention
>> > that many accused Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, FDR, and other presidents
of
>> > the same throughout American history.
>> > - "...severe economic and social regimentation" means "strict discipline
>> > and enforced uniformity characteristic of military groups or
totalitarian
>> > systems." This clearly doesn't apply. Many fascist groups like the Nazis
>> > had something similar to the Schutzstaffel (SS), which began with a
small
>> > party volunteer security guard unit or paramilitary formation known as
>> > the Saal-Schutz ("Hall Security") to provide security for meetings but
grew
>> > to become one of the most powerful organizations in Nazi Germany. To the
>> > best of my knowledge, Trump has not created such a unit, and such a unit
>> > doesn't exist in the GOP.
>> > - "...forcible suppression of opposition." I guess you could always find
>> > some evidence to support this statement.
>> > - "A tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or
>> > dictatorial control." If "autocratic" means "taking no account of other
>> > people's wishes or opinions or being domineering," then the phrase might
>> > fit.
>> >
>> > In other words, if Bill is saying that Trump has a tendency of being
>> > domineering or a tendency toward or actual exercise of taking no account
of
>> > other people's wishes or opinions, then he's likely right under the 2nd
>> > definition of Merriam-Webster.
>> >
>> > But that is a far cry from stating that the 2018 Trumpist-dominated
>> > Republican Party and the 1930s German Nazi Party are similar, as I note in
>> > my other points above.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Bill Kahn
<<email obscured>
>> >> wrote:
>> >
>> >> ‘Hi John’
>> >>
>> >> I don’t know what more evidence would convince you or any other
Republican
>> >> following the current Trump game plan that we are in danger, but the
signs
>> >> are there; willful ignorance of the news and current state of our
>> >> democratic republic is certainly a necessary component of a uniquely
>> >> American fascism to emerge, dominate and prevail over what’s left of our
>> >> democratic form of guvmit. The election of Donald Trump is one step of
many
>> >> in the fall of the United States of America to the will of both Trump
>> >> supporters, his collaborators in Congress, and Russia. You don’t have to
>> >> call it fascism if you don’t, can’t or won’t, John, but you are a big
part
>> >> of it now.
>> >>
>> >> I hope it won’t happen and my biggest hopes are with those voters who
>> >> believe in our country, not some Trump pipe dream, and flip Congress the
>> >> the Democrats to begin damage control and stem the fascist tide.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On Jul 6, 2018, at 4:29 PM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Bill,
>> >>>
>> >>> You have indeed 'been consistent throughout in identifying our danger of
>> >> a fascist takeover' - you just haven't offered any evidence that it is
>> >> occurring, which was my question
>>
>>
>> Bill Kahn
>> PPERR, Picayuniariana, The future state within the State of Minnesota
encompassed by the Minneapolis city limits (consider annexation if you are
tired of being manipulated)., http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
>> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>>
>>
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Rest of post

Hi Yosem,

Thanks for writing. For the record, you didn't violate any rules, and your
thoughtful post is perfectly appropriate here. There was no justification for
Bill's ad hominem attacks. It is ironic that the self-professed 'anti-Fascist'
here is the intolerant one! I invite you to write more often.

The comparisons drawn between America of 2018 and Germany of the 1930s seem to
have little merit, and Bill doesn't even try to defend them.

I was glad to finally have a post from Mr. Companys; as it seemed aimed at me,
I hadn’t realized right away that his second communication was a post until
after I’d responded. We’d had some communication in the past and have some
connection through a couple of schools even though I don’t think our politics
are similar, but res ipsa loquitur. We have rules and we ignore them at our
peril or follow them to achieve the purposes of the forum along with our own.

Back to it.

‘Hi John’,

Blindness. That’s what both Republicans and Democrats in or out of Congress or
any other branch of guvmit who think that the attacks on our laws to target
people that the current regime does not like or scapegoats to placate their
bases, are suffering. We will give all a heavy dose of grace in the Midterms
and hopefully they will see.

They are still apt comparisons, John, but you inexplicably want evidence for
something that has not happened yet, demand it and ignore what is going on now
in this republic so that you can defend the present indefensible status quo.

We’ve had malignant narcissists unleash three nightmares in our recent history.

Lyndon Baines Johnson could not or would not see what was happening in Vietnam
and split this country, perhaps forever in a pointless waste of blood and
treasure fighting an un-winnable war.

Richard Milhous Nixon carried on, escalated the war, and proceeded to destroy
and misuse the power of our government in his attacks on his political
opponents.

Now Donald John Trump has seized the mantle of leadership of what is left of
our constitutional democratic Republic with the aid of a foreign power to
alienate our allies, to decimate the global economy with tariffs universally
panned by all schools of economics, to protect us from trumped up threats—most
of which do not exist—from ‘enemies’, to basically impose anarchy on us and the
world for the benefit of his ‘buddy’ Vladimir Putin’s corrupt regime, a fascist
(top oligarch, if you like, or what Trump seems to see he himself as, although
perhaps the reality of the office is invading his brain ever so slightly)
masquerading as leader of a relatively new and troubled democracy.

Each moment is unique, but in social mammals, patterns of behavior exist that
have a certain momentum: our species has accommodated or controlled these
patterns for the benefit of various individuals or groups in society, depending
on our powers to do so. I did not exist in the Weimar Republic as it was swept
aside for Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich, but the power grabs and abuses of laws
and government institutions of today are certainly compatible to that time,
whether one wants to or not. When we as human beings see disturbing patterns of
behavior in one individual in this country, we examine them closely and act
under the laws of our country.

Republicans are not happy. Democrats are not happy. Not many folks are happy
save one while golfing in New Jersey, North Carolina or Florida at some resort
they own or hard at work destroying the lives of those dealing with or citizens
of the United States of America for however long that lasts (hopefully quite a
while if we can fix our electoral and campaign finance problems to make guvmit
responsible to the people again instead of a few rich and powerful concerns).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.slate.com/business/2018/05/were-donald-trumps-cash-real-estate-purchases-related-to-money-laundering.html

Ah, golf. Gotta love it. Not sure why, but people do. Especially the POTUS.

We have some power. Vote. Save our democratic republic for future generations
and head off the fascist takeover.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 9, 2018, at 9:47 AM, John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>
> The comparisons drawn between America of 2018 and Germany of the 1930s seem
to have little merit, and Bill doesn't even try to defend them.

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Comparing the USA in 2018 with Germany in the 1930s

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