http://www.startribune.com/local/285392631.html
Bird saving film going on the stadium
- 32 posts by 22 authors
- Last post by Jack Ferman at 2:19am, Dec 17, 2014
Keywords:
- bird
- glass
- film
- Dec
- mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE a
window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked to try
to come up with one.
The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
building.
window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked to try
to come up with one.
The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
building.
This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If not,
though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature has time
to act.
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE a
window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked to try
to come up with one.
>
> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
building.
>
> Elise Morton
> Longfellow, Minneapolis
> About/contact Elise Morton:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If not,
though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature has time
to act.
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE a
window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked to try
to come up with one.
>
> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
building.
>
> Elise Morton
> Longfellow, Minneapolis
> About/contact Elise Morton:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
>
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> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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I think it's an indication that if we "bird nerds" keep up the publicity,
it will have some effect. (Yep, I almost said "impact")
Probably not as much as we want but then. and it does keep the thought in
Zigi's mind that Minnesotans can be difficult.
I like that.
it will have some effect. (Yep, I almost said "impact")
Probably not as much as we want but then. and it does keep the thought in
Zigi's mind that Minnesotans can be difficult.
I like that.
On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
> legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If
> not, though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature
> has time to act.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE
> a window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked
> to try to come up with one.
> >
> > The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
> stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
> applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
> building.
> >
> > Elise Morton
> > Longfellow, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Elise Morton:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
> >
> > * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
> > Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> > A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
> >
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> Jim McGuire
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jim McGuire:
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--
Emilie Quast
160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
Minneapolis MN 55455
<email obscured>
It is certainly possible as the alternative glass to fritted glass is a product
that has patterns of material on it that reflects ultraviolet light making it
visible to birds while still remaining clear to us. It should certainly be
possible to produce a plastic film with these properties; I have such a UV
coating on the polycarbonate plastic lenses of my glasses now (not one bird
collision so far). It would probably not weather as well as a glass product,
but it should work.
If they don't do something, they may be cleaning that glass stadium constantly.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 10, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If not,
though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature has time
to act.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE a
window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked to try
to come up with one.
>>
>> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
building.
>>
>> Elise Morton
>> Longfellow, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Elise Morton:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
>>
>> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
>> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
>> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
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>
> Jim McGuire
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jim McGuire:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi
that has patterns of material on it that reflects ultraviolet light making it
visible to birds while still remaining clear to us. It should certainly be
possible to produce a plastic film with these properties; I have such a UV
coating on the polycarbonate plastic lenses of my glasses now (not one bird
collision so far). It would probably not weather as well as a glass product,
but it should work.
If they don't do something, they may be cleaning that glass stadium constantly.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 10, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If not,
though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature has time
to act.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE a
window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked to try
to come up with one.
>>
>> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
building.
>>
>> Elise Morton
>> Longfellow, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Elise Morton:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
>>
>> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
>> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
>> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)
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>>
>> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
> Jim McGuire
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jim McGuire:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi
>
> View full topic:
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> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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just a continuation of Football's concussion issue.
sheldon
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sheldon Mains
Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis
<email obscured>
On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Emilie Quast wrote:
> I think it's an indication that if we "bird nerds" keep up the publicity,
> it will have some effect. (Yep, I almost said "impact")
>
> Probably not as much as we want but then. and it does keep the thought in
> Zigi's mind that Minnesotans can be difficult.
>
> I like that.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
>> legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If
>> not, though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature
>> has time to act.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE
>> a window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked
>> to try to come up with one.
>>>
>>> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
>> stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
>> applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
>> building.
>>>
>>> Elise Morton
>>> Longfellow, Minneapolis
>>> About/contact Elise Morton:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>>>
>>> View full topic:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
>>>
>>> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
>>> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
>>> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
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>>
>> Jim McGuire
>> SE Como, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Jim McGuire:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/yUZR1xLlvmubs2qjtgXuM
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>> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
>> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Emilie Quast
> 160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
> Minneapolis MN 55455
> <email obscured>
>
> Emilie Quast
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Emilie Quast, SE Como:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4yQ7l4lqC4SjzU33pObzSa
sheldon
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sheldon Mains
Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis
<email obscured>
On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Emilie Quast wrote:
> I think it's an indication that if we "bird nerds" keep up the publicity,
> it will have some effect. (Yep, I almost said "impact")
>
> Probably not as much as we want but then. and it does keep the thought in
> Zigi's mind that Minnesotans can be difficult.
>
> I like that.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
>> legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If
>> not, though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature
>> has time to act.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE
>> a window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked
>> to try to come up with one.
>>>
>>> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
>> stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
>> applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
>> building.
>>>
>>> Elise Morton
>>> Longfellow, Minneapolis
>>> About/contact Elise Morton:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>>>
>>> View full topic:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
>>>
>>> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
>>> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
>>> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>>>
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>>
>> Jim McGuire
>> SE Como, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Jim McGuire:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/yUZR1xLlvmubs2qjtgXuM
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>> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Emilie Quast
> 160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
> Minneapolis MN 55455
> <email obscured>
>
> Emilie Quast
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Emilie Quast, SE Como:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4yQ7l4lqC4SjzU33pObzSa
>
> View full topic:
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'concussion issue ' ... very good, Sheldon.
coverage from finance and commerce
http://finance-commerce.com/2014/12/testing-of-bird-safe-solution-possible-for-vikings-stadium/
and from the strib
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/285392631.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue
best wishes,
Cheryl luger
Nokomis east
coverage from finance and commerce
http://finance-commerce.com/2014/12/testing-of-bird-safe-solution-possible-for-vikings-stadium/
and from the strib
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/285392631.html?page=all&prepage=1&c=y#continue
best wishes,
Cheryl luger
Nokomis east
“I never wonder to see men wicked, but I often wonder
to see them not ashamed.”
--- Jonathan Swift
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:16 PM, Sheldon Mains <<email obscured>>
wrote:
just a continuation of Football's concussion issue.
sheldon
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sheldon Mains
Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis
<email obscured>
On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Emilie Quast wrote:
> I think it's an indication that if we "bird nerds" keep up the publicity,
> it will have some effect. (Yep, I almost said "impact")
>
> Probably not as much as we want but then. and it does keep the thought in
> Zigi's mind that Minnesotans can be difficult.
>
> I like that.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
>> legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If
>> not, though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature
>> has time to act.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE
>> a window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked
>> to try to come up with one.
>>>
>>> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
>> stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
>> applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
>> building.
>>>
>>> Elise Morton
>>> Longfellow, Minneapolis
>>> About/contact Elise Morton:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>>>
>>> View full topic:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
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>>
>> Jim McGuire
>> SE Como, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Jim McGuire:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Emilie Quast
> 160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
> Minneapolis MN 55455
> <email obscured>
>
> Emilie Quast
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Emilie Quast, SE Como:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4yQ7l4lqC4SjzU33pObzSa
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Sheldon Mains
Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis
About/contact Sheldon Mains: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sheldonmains
View full topic:
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A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
to see them not ashamed.”
--- Jonathan Swift
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 9:16 PM, Sheldon Mains <<email obscured>>
wrote:
just a continuation of Football's concussion issue.
sheldon
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sheldon Mains
Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis
<email obscured>
On Dec 10, 2014, at 7:04 PM, Emilie Quast wrote:
> I think it's an indication that if we "bird nerds" keep up the publicity,
> it will have some effect. (Yep, I almost said "impact")
>
> Probably not as much as we want but then. and it does keep the thought in
> Zigi's mind that Minnesotans can be difficult.
>
> I like that.
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Jim Mcguire <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> This just appears to be an attempt at political cover going into the
>> legislative session. Could 3M come up with something? Maybe. Maybe not. If
>> not, though, we won't know until Spring. Conveniently after the legislature
>> has time to act.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Dec 10, 2014, at 17:51, Elise Morton <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tim Nelson from MPR called 3M and they say that they don't actually HAVE
>> a window film shown to reduce bird collisions, and they've only been asked
>> to try to come up with one.
>>>
>>> The MSFA says IF 3M comes up with it, it won't be applied to the entire
>> stadium, it will be a limited test. They also told me they can't commit to
>> applying more of it, or changing the glass itself if birds are hitting the
>> building.
>>>
>>> Elise Morton
>>> Longfellow, Minneapolis
>>> About/contact Elise Morton:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1inWngLPbHzEWTQjDO7mbj
>>>
>>> View full topic:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Kc1Jv0IXYwX7O3aQVC8cz
>>>
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>>> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
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>>>
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>> quotes)
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>>
>> Jim McGuire
>> SE Como, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Jim McGuire:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/FcTnUVBA1tS45d8GJKWHi
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/yUZR1xLlvmubs2qjtgXuM
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Emilie Quast
> 160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
> Minneapolis MN 55455
> <email obscured>
>
> Emilie Quast
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> About/contact Emilie Quast, SE Como:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4yQ7l4lqC4SjzU33pObzSa
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4j9GO9ucQfxbrq6ucXaXL3
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> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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Sheldon Mains
Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis
About/contact Sheldon Mains: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sheldonmains
View full topic:
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A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
As I understand, bird deflection can be accomplished without covering the
entire surface of a piece of glass. e.g. those bird silhouette stickers that
have been used. Maybe they could sandblast some artistic - or even football
based - designs into the surface of the glass. It wouldn't even have to be all
over and could leave a nice view for the fans.
I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably failing and
all the stadium folks shrugging their shoulders and throwing their hands up ...
nothing to be done about it.
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/save-millions-of-birds-window-alert-invisible-ultraviolet-decals-warn-birds-about-deadly-windows.html
Or if they'd just ban football all together this would all go away ...
entire surface of a piece of glass. e.g. those bird silhouette stickers that
have been used. Maybe they could sandblast some artistic - or even football
based - designs into the surface of the glass. It wouldn't even have to be all
over and could leave a nice view for the fans.
I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably failing and
all the stadium folks shrugging their shoulders and throwing their hands up ...
nothing to be done about it.
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/save-millions-of-birds-window-alert-invisible-ultraviolet-decals-warn-birds-about-deadly-windows.html
Or if they'd just ban football all together this would all go away ...
What view for the fans?
Thought they would be there to be watching the field?
Oh wait, never mind, I can still remember my one and only live viewing NFL
experience; didn't spend much time watching the field.
Ron Leurquin
Richfield
Thought they would be there to be watching the field?
Oh wait, never mind, I can still remember my one and only live viewing NFL
experience; didn't spend much time watching the field.
Ron Leurquin
Richfield
Don't suppose the weathering is a problem if the film is applied to the inside
of the glass and it should last a long time as I seldom see tint film for
automotive applications fail.
Seems like Viking logo stickers would work well and for those sharp eyed humans
who can manage to notice them, it is just a little more boosterism; they could
even sell them for windows at home as this is not a problem limited to downtown
buildings.
This would certainly be a good move for both the Vikings and 3M.
Sent from my iPhone
of the glass and it should last a long time as I seldom see tint film for
automotive applications fail.
Seems like Viking logo stickers would work well and for those sharp eyed humans
who can manage to notice them, it is just a little more boosterism; they could
even sell them for windows at home as this is not a problem limited to downtown
buildings.
This would certainly be a good move for both the Vikings and 3M.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 12, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably failing
I had a very good experience with a 3M window film. My former house in
Minneapolis had a great room with very large triangular windows at the
roof peak. They faced west and the room heated up like an oven.
Somehow I discovered that 3M made a window film that reflects heat. It
was professionally installed on the inside of the windows and worked
like a charm.
Maybe they can save the birds.
Fredda Scobey
Edina
>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
> From: <email obscured> <<email obscured>>
> To: <mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Date: Friday, 12/12/2014 2:48 PM
>
> Don't suppose the weathering is a problem if the film is applied to
> the inside of the glass and it should last a long time as I seldom see
> tint film for automotive applications fail.
>
> Seems like Viking logo stickers would work well and for those sharp
> eyed humans who can manage to notice them, it is just a little more
> boosterism; they could even sell them for windows at home as this is
> not a problem limited to downtown buildings.
>
> This would certainly be a good move for both the Vikings and 3M.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably
>> failing
Minneapolis had a great room with very large triangular windows at the
roof peak. They faced west and the room heated up like an oven.
Somehow I discovered that 3M made a window film that reflects heat. It
was professionally installed on the inside of the windows and worked
like a charm.
Maybe they can save the birds.
Fredda Scobey
Edina
>
> --- Original message ---
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
> From: <email obscured> <<email obscured>>
> To: <mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Date: Friday, 12/12/2014 2:48 PM
>
> Don't suppose the weathering is a problem if the film is applied to
> the inside of the glass and it should last a long time as I seldom see
> tint film for automotive applications fail.
>
> Seems like Viking logo stickers would work well and for those sharp
> eyed humans who can manage to notice them, it is just a little more
> boosterism; they could even sell them for windows at home as this is
> not a problem limited to downtown buildings.
>
> This would certainly be a good move for both the Vikings and 3M.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably
>> failing
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1aMBEbuDJXe8pQp0caw4BV
>
> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
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> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
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The problem with applications on the inside is that birds won't see it because
the glass is extremely reflective (~30%). In addition, it is high-performance
glass consisting of multiple layers (I think 8) reducing effects of any
internal treatment. It really has to be on the outside or near the outside, as
would be the case for the frit, which would be applied to the inside of the
outermost layer of the glass.
The problem with decals is that they have to be applied at a very high density
(every 2-3 inches). Something is better than nothing, but I have seen numerous
dead birds directly under windows that are covered with sparse decals. Many
birds are used to flying through tight spaces in trees and are likely
conditioned to look for any gap large enough for them to fly through.
There is no film in existence to solve this problem and the MSFA and Lester
Bagley have made it very clear that they are considering a test of this
material and only on a portion of the glass. Even if it works they are not
agreeing to cover all of the glass with the fantasy material. The MSFA strung
along Audubon MN for months with the fritted glass (and continue to do so with
the Lights Out policy for which there is still NO written agreement). There is
no reason to believe that this show is anything different, and every reason to
believe that it is exactly the same.
Here is a great resource on bird window collisions -
http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/BirdFriendlyBuildingDesign.pdf
and a white paper on bird window collisions, specifically relating to the
Vikings stadium
http://audubonchapterofminneapolis.org/wpaudubon/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/WhitePaper_BWC_2014.pdf
If possible, folks should come to the Minneapolis Park Board meeting on
December 17th (5PM) to encourage the Park Board to vote "No' to the the current
MOU proposed by the city regarding the Downtown East Park. By doing so, it can
open up the potential for an amendment that would demand bird-safe glass on the
stadium.
the glass is extremely reflective (~30%). In addition, it is high-performance
glass consisting of multiple layers (I think 8) reducing effects of any
internal treatment. It really has to be on the outside or near the outside, as
would be the case for the frit, which would be applied to the inside of the
outermost layer of the glass.
The problem with decals is that they have to be applied at a very high density
(every 2-3 inches). Something is better than nothing, but I have seen numerous
dead birds directly under windows that are covered with sparse decals. Many
birds are used to flying through tight spaces in trees and are likely
conditioned to look for any gap large enough for them to fly through.
There is no film in existence to solve this problem and the MSFA and Lester
Bagley have made it very clear that they are considering a test of this
material and only on a portion of the glass. Even if it works they are not
agreeing to cover all of the glass with the fantasy material. The MSFA strung
along Audubon MN for months with the fritted glass (and continue to do so with
the Lights Out policy for which there is still NO written agreement). There is
no reason to believe that this show is anything different, and every reason to
believe that it is exactly the same.
Here is a great resource on bird window collisions -
http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/BirdFriendlyBuildingDesign.pdf
and a white paper on bird window collisions, specifically relating to the
Vikings stadium
http://audubonchapterofminneapolis.org/wpaudubon/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/WhitePaper_BWC_2014.pdf
If possible, folks should come to the Minneapolis Park Board meeting on
December 17th (5PM) to encourage the Park Board to vote "No' to the the current
MOU proposed by the city regarding the Downtown East Park. By doing so, it can
open up the potential for an amendment that would demand bird-safe glass on the
stadium.
What I have read indicated that, while the sports authority, under pressure
from Audubon and some state legislators, may be negotiating with 3M about a
film to cover the bird-killing glass at the new Vikings stadium, said film
does not yet exist. 3M is being asked to do a war-time speed-up of its
research and development, to come up with a solution.
It's kind of cute, the way we depend on that company to continue to do
chemical/materials miracles for us!
Meanwhile, the fritted glass that would definitely be a known solution, is
put off. Costs a pretty $1 million. Wonder what 3M film will cost?
Connie Sullivan\
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
from Audubon and some state legislators, may be negotiating with 3M about a
film to cover the bird-killing glass at the new Vikings stadium, said film
does not yet exist. 3M is being asked to do a war-time speed-up of its
research and development, to come up with a solution.
It's kind of cute, the way we depend on that company to continue to do
chemical/materials miracles for us!
Meanwhile, the fritted glass that would definitely be a known solution, is
put off. Costs a pretty $1 million. Wonder what 3M film will cost?
Connie Sullivan\
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 3:06 PM, <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>
> I had a very good experience with a 3M window film. My former house in
> Minneapolis had a great room with very large triangular windows at the
> roof peak. They faced west and the room heated up like an oven.
> Somehow I discovered that 3M made a window film that reflects heat. It
> was professionally installed on the inside of the windows and worked
> like a charm.
>
> Maybe they can save the birds.
>
> Fredda Scobey
> Edina
>
> >
> > --- Original message ---
> > Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
> > From: <email obscured> <<email obscured>>
> > To: <mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
> > Date: Friday, 12/12/2014 2:48 PM
> >
> > Don't suppose the weathering is a problem if the film is applied to
> > the inside of the glass and it should last a long time as I seldom see
> > tint film for automotive applications fail.
> >
> > Seems like Viking logo stickers would work well and for those sharp
> > eyed humans who can manage to notice them, it is just a little more
> > boosterism; they could even sell them for windows at home as this is
> > not a problem limited to downtown buildings.
> >
> > This would certainly be a good move for both the Vikings and 3M.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >>
> >> On Dec 12, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably
> >> failing
> >
> > Bill Kahn
> > PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> > About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1aMBEbuDJXe8pQp0caw4BV
> >
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>
>
> Frederica Scobey
> Edina
> About/contact Frederica Scobey:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/freddascobey
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It is amazing that football is still a viable sport, considering the scandals
that surround it and the horrible stories about the suffering and early deaths
of some players possibly connected to brain injuries from concussions. There
was a program about it on Channel 2 recently, about a former Ivy League player
who was concerned about his own fate and that of other players. He located a
specialist in brain anatomy and she agreed to do a study if he could come up
with brain specimens of recently deceased football players who had certain
symptoms leading up to death. He was able to get about twenty "fresh" brains
(sorry for gruesome term) from widows wishing to help with the research. The
results were stark.
A while ago I heard on the news, or read somewhere, that DeLaSalle High School
had found a way to
monitor head injuries. My question is, how is this protocol going to "turn into
a big win for player health"? It is a monitor, not a safety device. The harm
has already been done even though they can now measure the impact of a hit. Do
the ethics of this "study" bring up questions with anyone else? The story can
be found below.
Local
New Helmet Technology Could Help Curb Concussions
October 15, 2014 10:22 PM
Share on email 7
View Comments
Related Tags:
3M, 3M Tape, Concussions, De La Salle, Football, Head Case Impact Sensors,
Helmets, John Lauritsen, Technology
(credit: CBS) John Lauritsen
John Lauritsen is a reporter from Montevideo, Minn. He joined WCCO-...
MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – Concussions are a concern from youth football all the way
to the pros.
But a Minneapolis high school thinks they may have a method for keeping players
safe and for cutting down on head injuries.
It’s a new protocol that could turn into a big win for player health.
Its 30 minutes to kick-off at De La Salle High School.
Also known as the countdown to contact.
The Islanders are wearing their usual black helmets. But inside those helmets
is something new.
“If it’s blinking green- it’s charged up and ready to go,” head coach Sean
McMenomy said.
Head Coach Sean McMenomy has a new pre-game ritual.
It includes installing what are called “Head Case Impact Sensors” inside his
players’ helmets.
“What it does is it holds a file folder with every hit that a kid has always
had,” McMenomy said.
Using 3M tape, the sensor is placed between the hard plastic of the helmet.
Then the sensor is connected to a phone app that notifies coaches every time a
player takes a big hit.
They measure the G-Force of every hit to the helmet, from light taps to big
collisions.
And if the hit is big enough, the sensor lets the coaches know.
“What it does is it just helps us monitor big hits and say, ‘Hey, you know
what? Steve just took a big hit to his head. Pull him off to the side and check
him out just in case,'” McMenomy said.
The player can be put through the baseline test on the app to see if they have
a concussion. And it’s all recorded as part of their injury history.
“Concussions are big, you know. We try and keep away from it,” said wide
receiver Marquise Bridges. “That’s why this thing can help us a lot.”
It can help them literally keep their heads in the game.
“This I think is just another step, but it helps monitor the amount of hits
that your head takes,” McMenomy said. “I think in long-term, it only helps.”
Coaches say the Head Case Impact Sensors cost around $100.
De La Salle is part of a pilot program, so there is no cost to the school as of
now.
They received the sensors last week and are one of only 13 schools in the
nation using the technology.
But De La Salle is part of a pilot program, so there is no cost to the school
right now.
Janet Nye
Phillips
that surround it and the horrible stories about the suffering and early deaths
of some players possibly connected to brain injuries from concussions. There
was a program about it on Channel 2 recently, about a former Ivy League player
who was concerned about his own fate and that of other players. He located a
specialist in brain anatomy and she agreed to do a study if he could come up
with brain specimens of recently deceased football players who had certain
symptoms leading up to death. He was able to get about twenty "fresh" brains
(sorry for gruesome term) from widows wishing to help with the research. The
results were stark.
A while ago I heard on the news, or read somewhere, that DeLaSalle High School
had found a way to
monitor head injuries. My question is, how is this protocol going to "turn into
a big win for player health"? It is a monitor, not a safety device. The harm
has already been done even though they can now measure the impact of a hit. Do
the ethics of this "study" bring up questions with anyone else? The story can
be found below.
Local
New Helmet Technology Could Help Curb Concussions
October 15, 2014 10:22 PM
Share on email 7
View Comments
Related Tags:
3M, 3M Tape, Concussions, De La Salle, Football, Head Case Impact Sensors,
Helmets, John Lauritsen, Technology
(credit: CBS) John Lauritsen
John Lauritsen is a reporter from Montevideo, Minn. He joined WCCO-...
MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) – Concussions are a concern from youth football all the way
to the pros.
But a Minneapolis high school thinks they may have a method for keeping players
safe and for cutting down on head injuries.
It’s a new protocol that could turn into a big win for player health.
Its 30 minutes to kick-off at De La Salle High School.
Also known as the countdown to contact.
The Islanders are wearing their usual black helmets. But inside those helmets
is something new.
“If it’s blinking green- it’s charged up and ready to go,” head coach Sean
McMenomy said.
Head Coach Sean McMenomy has a new pre-game ritual.
It includes installing what are called “Head Case Impact Sensors” inside his
players’ helmets.
“What it does is it holds a file folder with every hit that a kid has always
had,” McMenomy said.
Using 3M tape, the sensor is placed between the hard plastic of the helmet.
Then the sensor is connected to a phone app that notifies coaches every time a
player takes a big hit.
They measure the G-Force of every hit to the helmet, from light taps to big
collisions.
And if the hit is big enough, the sensor lets the coaches know.
“What it does is it just helps us monitor big hits and say, ‘Hey, you know
what? Steve just took a big hit to his head. Pull him off to the side and check
him out just in case,'” McMenomy said.
The player can be put through the baseline test on the app to see if they have
a concussion. And it’s all recorded as part of their injury history.
“Concussions are big, you know. We try and keep away from it,” said wide
receiver Marquise Bridges. “That’s why this thing can help us a lot.”
It can help them literally keep their heads in the game.
“This I think is just another step, but it helps monitor the amount of hits
that your head takes,” McMenomy said. “I think in long-term, it only helps.”
Coaches say the Head Case Impact Sensors cost around $100.
De La Salle is part of a pilot program, so there is no cost to the school as of
now.
They received the sensors last week and are one of only 13 schools in the
nation using the technology.
But De La Salle is part of a pilot program, so there is no cost to the school
right now.
Janet Nye
Phillips
________________________________
From: Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
As I understand, bird deflection can be accomplished without covering the
entire surface of a piece of glass. e.g. those bird silhouette stickers that
have been used. Maybe they could sandblast some artistic - or even football
based - designs into the surface of the glass. It wouldn't even have to be all
over and could leave a nice view for the fans.
I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably failing and
all the stadium folks shrugging their shoulders and throwing their hands up ...
nothing to be done about it.
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/save-millions-of-birds-window-alert-invisible-ultraviolet-decals-warn-birds-about-deadly-windows.html
Or if they'd just ban football all together this would all go away ...
Jonna Connelly
Minnehaha/Nokomis East, Minneapolis
About/contact Jonna Connelly:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4CGT5PBlgnROyZLbre1x3e
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/56B22zkGP4haXkQviYM2T5
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Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
From: Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
As I understand, bird deflection can be accomplished without covering the
entire surface of a piece of glass. e.g. those bird silhouette stickers that
have been used. Maybe they could sandblast some artistic - or even football
based - designs into the surface of the glass. It wouldn't even have to be all
over and could leave a nice view for the fans.
I may be a cynic but I see this new experimental film as inevitably failing and
all the stadium folks shrugging their shoulders and throwing their hands up ...
nothing to be done about it.
http://www.treehugger.com/natural-sciences/save-millions-of-birds-window-alert-invisible-ultraviolet-decals-warn-birds-about-deadly-windows.html
Or if they'd just ban football all together this would all go away ...
Jonna Connelly
Minnehaha/Nokomis East, Minneapolis
About/contact Jonna Connelly:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4CGT5PBlgnROyZLbre1x3e
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/56B22zkGP4haXkQviYM2T5
* E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
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2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
I believe the last, best effective way to ensure the MSFA and Vikings implement
a true bird-safe solution for the stadium glass is for the Minneapolis Park
Board to refuse to allow the development of Downtown East Park (the $20 million
plaza next to the stadium) until there is a commitment to install proven
bird-safe glass already available or until 3M has proven their technology is
developed, effective and paid for by the MSFA.
We are voting on December 17th to abdicate responsibility for the proposed park
to the City and MSFA. Since this is a land transfer, only 4 votes are needed to
block this until the MSFA commits to doing the right thing. I will be voting to
block until bird-safe glass is truly committed to by the MSFA and Vikings. Only
3 more votes would make this a successful tactic if the Vikings and the MSFA
truly want the park ready to go in time for the Super Bowl.
The Minneapolis Park Board is the last government entity with any significant
leverage or significant chance of making this happen.
Brad Bourn (Kingfield)
Commissioner, 6th District
Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
a true bird-safe solution for the stadium glass is for the Minneapolis Park
Board to refuse to allow the development of Downtown East Park (the $20 million
plaza next to the stadium) until there is a commitment to install proven
bird-safe glass already available or until 3M has proven their technology is
developed, effective and paid for by the MSFA.
We are voting on December 17th to abdicate responsibility for the proposed park
to the City and MSFA. Since this is a land transfer, only 4 votes are needed to
block this until the MSFA commits to doing the right thing. I will be voting to
block until bird-safe glass is truly committed to by the MSFA and Vikings. Only
3 more votes would make this a successful tactic if the Vikings and the MSFA
truly want the park ready to go in time for the Super Bowl.
The Minneapolis Park Board is the last government entity with any significant
leverage or significant chance of making this happen.
Brad Bourn (Kingfield)
Commissioner, 6th District
Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
Brad,
Thank you for your common sense approach to this problem. It is refreshing to
find a public servant willing to put our Minnesota values first. Standing up to
"big money" and keeping the interests of the environment, citizens and future
generations at the forefront of your decisions. I hope the other
commissioner's understand the importance of this vote. I will be there to
support you.
Wendy Haan
Co-founder
MN Citizens for the Protection of Migratory Birds
Thank you for your common sense approach to this problem. It is refreshing to
find a public servant willing to put our Minnesota values first. Standing up to
"big money" and keeping the interests of the environment, citizens and future
generations at the forefront of your decisions. I hope the other
commissioner's understand the importance of this vote. I will be there to
support you.
Wendy Haan
Co-founder
MN Citizens for the Protection of Migratory Birds
Brad - way to go!! Scott Vreeland, John Erwin, Annie Young are you in? Let's
make it unanimous! Brilliant! Better they deal with now than later, I like
the Park Board taking this kind of leadership - Gerry Tyrrell Corcoran
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 11:24 AM, "Brad Bourn" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe the last, best effective way to ensure the MSFA and Vikings
implement a true bird-safe solution for the stadium glass is for the
Minneapolis Park Board to refuse to allow the development of Downtown East Park
(the $20 million plaza next to the stadium) until there is a commitment to
install proven bird-safe glass already available or until 3M has proven their
technology is developed, effective and paid for by the MSFA.
>
> We are voting on December 17th to abdicate responsibility for the proposed
park to the City and MSFA. Since this is a land transfer, only 4 votes are
needed to block this until the MSFA commits to doing the right thing. I will be
voting to block until bird-safe glass is truly committed to by the MSFA and
Vikings. Only 3 more votes would make this a successful tactic if the Vikings
and the MSFA truly want the park ready to go in time for the Super Bowl.
>
> The Minneapolis Park Board is the last government entity with any significant
leverage or significant chance of making this happen.
>
> Brad Bourn (Kingfield)
> Commissioner, 6th District
> Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
>
> Brad Bourn
> Carag Neighborhood, Uptown Minneapolis, Minneapolis
> About/contact Brad Bourn:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4HiMdGFweJ4ShynysvSp7p
make it unanimous! Brilliant! Better they deal with now than later, I like
the Park Board taking this kind of leadership - Gerry Tyrrell Corcoran
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 11:24 AM, "Brad Bourn" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe the last, best effective way to ensure the MSFA and Vikings
implement a true bird-safe solution for the stadium glass is for the
Minneapolis Park Board to refuse to allow the development of Downtown East Park
(the $20 million plaza next to the stadium) until there is a commitment to
install proven bird-safe glass already available or until 3M has proven their
technology is developed, effective and paid for by the MSFA.
>
> We are voting on December 17th to abdicate responsibility for the proposed
park to the City and MSFA. Since this is a land transfer, only 4 votes are
needed to block this until the MSFA commits to doing the right thing. I will be
voting to block until bird-safe glass is truly committed to by the MSFA and
Vikings. Only 3 more votes would make this a successful tactic if the Vikings
and the MSFA truly want the park ready to go in time for the Super Bowl.
>
> The Minneapolis Park Board is the last government entity with any significant
leverage or significant chance of making this happen.
>
> Brad Bourn (Kingfield)
> Commissioner, 6th District
> Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
>
> Brad Bourn
> Carag Neighborhood, Uptown Minneapolis, Minneapolis
> About/contact Brad Bourn:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4HiMdGFweJ4ShynysvSp7p
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1KtSPUzAigTGpAwrnc20E2
>
> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>
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> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
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>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
Yes, Scott, John, and Annie! Public leadership doing the right thing! We need
this badly in so many areas of our democracy, let this be one.
It will be both a caring action on behalf our fellow earthly beings and an
affirmation as a community of our own moral integrity.
Arthur T. Himmelman
Loring Park
this badly in so many areas of our democracy, let this be one.
It will be both a caring action on behalf our fellow earthly beings and an
affirmation as a community of our own moral integrity.
Arthur T. Himmelman
Loring Park
Brad - way to go!! Scott Vreeland, John Erwin, Annie Young are you in? Let's
make it unanimous! Brilliant! Better they deal with now than later, I like
the Park Board taking this kind of leadership - Gerry Tyrrell Corcoran
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 11:24 AM, "Brad Bourn" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe the last, best effective way to ensure the MSFA and Vikings
implement a true bird-safe solution for the stadium glass is for the
Minneapolis
Park Board to refuse to allow the development of Downtown East Park (the $20
million plaza next to the stadium) until there is a commitment to install
proven
bird-safe glass already available or until 3M has proven their technology is
developed, effective and paid for by the MSFA.
>
> We are voting on December 17th to abdicate responsibility for the proposed
park to the City and MSFA. Since this is a land transfer, only 4 votes are
needed to block this until the MSFA commits to doing the right thing. I will be
voting to block until bird-safe glass is truly committed to by the MSFA and
Vikings. Only 3 more votes would make this a successful tactic if the Vikings
and the MSFA truly want the park ready to go in time for the Super Bowl.
>
> The Minneapolis Park Board is the last government entity with any significant
leverage or significant chance of making this happen.
>
> Brad Bourn (Kingfield)
> Commissioner, 6th District
> Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
>
> Brad Bourn
> Carag Neighborhood, Uptown Minneapolis, Minneapolis
> About/contact Brad Bourn:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4HiMdGFweJ4ShynysvSp7p
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1KtSPUzAigTGpAwrnc20E2
>
> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)
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>
>
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> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
Gerry Tyrrell
Corcoran, Minneapolis
About/contact Gerry Tyrrell:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4WxRnm8x4ljjniQ8DAl2oC
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1fhQb0J7vzDeqCWaaB3D6j
* E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 65 Total: $2650 US
Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
make it unanimous! Brilliant! Better they deal with now than later, I like
the Park Board taking this kind of leadership - Gerry Tyrrell Corcoran
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 13, 2014, at 11:24 AM, "Brad Bourn" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe the last, best effective way to ensure the MSFA and Vikings
implement a true bird-safe solution for the stadium glass is for the
Minneapolis
Park Board to refuse to allow the development of Downtown East Park (the $20
million plaza next to the stadium) until there is a commitment to install
proven
bird-safe glass already available or until 3M has proven their technology is
developed, effective and paid for by the MSFA.
>
> We are voting on December 17th to abdicate responsibility for the proposed
park to the City and MSFA. Since this is a land transfer, only 4 votes are
needed to block this until the MSFA commits to doing the right thing. I will be
voting to block until bird-safe glass is truly committed to by the MSFA and
Vikings. Only 3 more votes would make this a successful tactic if the Vikings
and the MSFA truly want the park ready to go in time for the Super Bowl.
>
> The Minneapolis Park Board is the last government entity with any significant
leverage or significant chance of making this happen.
>
> Brad Bourn (Kingfield)
> Commissioner, 6th District
> Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board
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Gerry Tyrrell
Corcoran, Minneapolis
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A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
there are only 2 words necessary to see the solution. JAVITS CENTER. This
incredibly big and beautiful building in NYC replaced all its glass with the
fritted glass AFTER it was built. Bird deathes went down 95%. Got to bw more
cost effective to do it right the first time,
incredibly big and beautiful building in NYC replaced all its glass with the
fritted glass AFTER it was built. Bird deathes went down 95%. Got to bw more
cost effective to do it right the first time,
I think it's been touched upon here but maybe the most effective thing would be
for some fans to be hit by falling, bloody birds on their way in and out of the
stadium. It might even curb some of the snark I've read in strib comments.
for some fans to be hit by falling, bloody birds on their way in and out of the
stadium. It might even curb some of the snark I've read in strib comments.
I can just imagine it now. Joe and 5 of his Burnsville buddies come early to
tailgate and warm up a great Viking Beef Stew and just as they are about to
start ladling a big fat crow carcass splashes down splattering hot red sauce
over their purple jerseys. On the positive side it would be an opportunity for
Ed's Samy Food Truck.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 14, 2014, at 7:25 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I think it's been touched upon here but maybe the most effective thing would
be for some fans to be hit by falling, bloody birds on their way in and out of
the stadium. It might even curb some of the snark I've read in strib comments.
tailgate and warm up a great Viking Beef Stew and just as they are about to
start ladling a big fat crow carcass splashes down splattering hot red sauce
over their purple jerseys. On the positive side it would be an opportunity for
Ed's Samy Food Truck.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 14, 2014, at 7:25 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I think it's been touched upon here but maybe the most effective thing would
be for some fans to be hit by falling, bloody birds on their way in and out of
the stadium. It might even curb some of the snark I've read in strib comments.
> Jonna Connelly
> Minnehaha/Nokomis East, Minneapolis
>
> Minnehaha/Nokomis East, Minneapolis
>
I think that Jack Ferman just suggested that Vikings fans should eat crow!
Steve Brandt
Kingfield
Steve Brandt
Kingfield
I think the ick factor of stepping on a warm, still squishy bird carcass
might be more effective. There are more people walking in than there are
tail-gaters.
Better: you might notice the bird was only stunned so it was your #10's
that actually killed it.
On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 8:53 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
wrote:
might be more effective. There are more people walking in than there are
tail-gaters.
Better: you might notice the bird was only stunned so it was your #10's
that actually killed it.
On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 8:53 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
wrote:
>
> I can just imagine it now. Joe and 5 of his Burnsville buddies come early
> to tailgate and warm up a great Viking Beef Stew and just as they are about
> to start ladling a big fat crow carcass splashes down splattering hot red
> sauce over their purple jerseys. On the positive side it would be an
> opportunity for Ed's Samy Food Truck.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> John Ferman
> Kingfield Neighborhood
> Minneapolis, MN
> Email in header
>
>
> > On Dec 14, 2014, at 7:25 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think it's been touched upon here but maybe the most effective thing
> would be for some fans to be hit by falling, bloody birds on their way in
> and out of the stadium. It might even curb some of the snark I've read in
> strib comments.
> > Jonna Connelly
> > Minnehaha/Nokomis East, Minneapolis
> >
>
> Jack Ferman
> Kingfield, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7bIUDHBslAvKqf46w8r6zg
>
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> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
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>
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>
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>
--
Emilie Quast
160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
Minneapolis MN 55455
<email obscured>
> I can just imagine it now. Joe and 5 of his Burnsville buddies come early
> to tailgate and warm up a great Viking Beef Stew and just as they are about
> to start ladling a big fat crow carcass splashes down splattering hot red
> sauce over their purple jerseys. On the positive side it would be an
> opportunity for Ed's Samy Food Truck.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> John Ferman
> Kingfield Neighborhood
> Minneapolis, MN
> Email in header
>
>
> > On Dec 14, 2014, at 7:25 PM, Jonna Connelly <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > I think it's been touched upon here but maybe the most effective thing
> would be for some fans to be hit by falling, bloody birds on their way in
> and out of the stadium. It might even curb some of the snark I've read in
> strib comments.
> > Jonna Connelly
> > Minnehaha/Nokomis East, Minneapolis
> >
>
> Jack Ferman
> Kingfield, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7bIUDHBslAvKqf46w8r6zg
>
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> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>
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> <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
--
Emilie Quast
160 Wilson Library, University of Minnesota
Minneapolis MN 55455
<email obscured>
Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a phone
booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds" and the
actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have permission to
use copyrighted material.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds" and the
actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have permission to
use copyrighted material.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
Most likely falls under "Fair Use."
-----Original Message-----
From: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org [mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org] On
Behalf Of John Ferman
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 12:52 PM
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a phone
booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds" and the
actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have permission to
use copyrighted material.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
>
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.15378924964426
> 53&type=2&theater
Jack Ferman
Kingfield, Minneapolis
About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
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1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
<email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
From: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org [mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org] On
Behalf Of John Ferman
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 12:52 PM
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a phone
booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds" and the
actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have permission to
use copyrighted material.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
>
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.15378924964426
> 53&type=2&theater
Jack Ferman
Kingfield, Minneapolis
About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
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2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of the
movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing stadium. The
use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing that the producers of
the video make any is pointless.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a phone
booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds" and the
actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have permission to
use copyrighted material.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> John Ferman
> Kingfield Neighborhood
> Minneapolis, MN
> Email in header
>
>
>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
>>
>>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
>
> Jack Ferman
> Kingfield, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
>
>
> *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
>
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Central.
>
> Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
12/15/2014
movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing stadium. The
use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing that the producers of
the video make any is pointless.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a phone
booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds" and the
actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have permission to
use copyrighted material.
>
> Sent from my iPad
> John Ferman
> Kingfield Neighborhood
> Minneapolis, MN
> Email in header
>
>
>> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe glass.
>>
>>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
>
> Jack Ferman
> Kingfield, Minneapolis
> About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
>
>
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Central.
>
> Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
12/15/2014
>
>
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Be careful, when it's artistic creation. I think you have to pay to use a
clip from a Hitchcock film like "The Birds." It doesn't have to do with
whether the video-maker makes money off it; it's asking permission and
paying to take advantage of someone else's hard work and creativity.
I once did a scholarly article for which I would receive absolutely no
money. I told The New Yorker that, when I requested permission to reproduce
one of their cartoons in my article, because it was a fantastic instance of
the cultural issue my article addressed. I had to pay them a small fee as
royalty before they granted permission, and they requested as well a copy
of the final article to make sure I kept to my end of the bargain. I was,
then, able to use their cleverness.
We have to understand that people who make music, poems, arts, dance,
movies, TV shows, etc., and journalists, deserve to be able to make a
living from their art or reporting. The internet has grossly distorted the
economics of the artistic world, in that everybody "lifts" stuff and seems
offended when they're asked to pay to have it. Aggregators who don't pay
anything for what they use are among the scum of the earth.
I have no sympathy for people who think art is free just because someone
pirated a work of art and put it up on the web.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, <email obscured> <
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of
> the movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing
> stadium. The use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing that
> the producers of the video make any is pointless.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a
> phone booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds"
> and the actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have
> permission to use copyrighted material.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > John Ferman
> > Kingfield Neighborhood
> > Minneapolis, MN
> > Email in header
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe
> glass.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
clip from a Hitchcock film like "The Birds." It doesn't have to do with
whether the video-maker makes money off it; it's asking permission and
paying to take advantage of someone else's hard work and creativity.
I once did a scholarly article for which I would receive absolutely no
money. I told The New Yorker that, when I requested permission to reproduce
one of their cartoons in my article, because it was a fantastic instance of
the cultural issue my article addressed. I had to pay them a small fee as
royalty before they granted permission, and they requested as well a copy
of the final article to make sure I kept to my end of the bargain. I was,
then, able to use their cleverness.
We have to understand that people who make music, poems, arts, dance,
movies, TV shows, etc., and journalists, deserve to be able to make a
living from their art or reporting. The internet has grossly distorted the
economics of the artistic world, in that everybody "lifts" stuff and seems
offended when they're asked to pay to have it. Aggregators who don't pay
anything for what they use are among the scum of the earth.
I have no sympathy for people who think art is free just because someone
pirated a work of art and put it up on the web.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, <email obscured> <
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of
> the movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing
> stadium. The use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing that
> the producers of the video make any is pointless.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a
> phone booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds"
> and the actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have
> permission to use copyrighted material.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > John Ferman
> > Kingfield Neighborhood
> > Minneapolis, MN
> > Email in header
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe
> glass.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&type=2&theater
> >
> > Jack Ferman
> > Kingfield, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
> >
> >
> > *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
> >
> > Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
> >
> > The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
> >
> > Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
> >
> >
> > * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> > Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> > A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
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> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
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> > Jack Ferman
> > Kingfield, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
> >
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> > *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
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> > Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
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> Bill Kahn
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Universal Pictures owns the distribution rights to "The Birds". From
Universal Studios comes this warning: "Any public performance, copying, or
use of this theatrical production with the expressed permission of Universal
Pictures is strictly prohibited." The copyright is retained by Alfred
Hitchcock Productions. Even though that entity no longer exists, it does
retain an agent in Los Angeles to enforce the copyright. It is a violation
of federal law to use a copyrighted theatrical production without the
permission of the copyright holder and the statues governing violation
provides for both criminal and civil penalties for unauthorized use.
Jim Bernstein
Fulton
With assistance from his
cousin Barbara Hines,
retired production manager,
Warner Bros. and NBC Studios
Universal Studios comes this warning: "Any public performance, copying, or
use of this theatrical production with the expressed permission of Universal
Pictures is strictly prohibited." The copyright is retained by Alfred
Hitchcock Productions. Even though that entity no longer exists, it does
retain an agent in Los Angeles to enforce the copyright. It is a violation
of federal law to use a copyrighted theatrical production without the
permission of the copyright holder and the statues governing violation
provides for both criminal and civil penalties for unauthorized use.
Jim Bernstein
Fulton
With assistance from his
cousin Barbara Hines,
retired production manager,
Warner Bros. and NBC Studios
-----Original Message-----
From: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org [mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org] On
Behalf Of Constance Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:54 PM
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Be careful, when it's artistic creation. I think you have to pay to use a
clip from a Hitchcock film like "The Birds." It doesn't have to do with
whether the video-maker makes money off it; it's asking permission and
paying to take advantage of someone else's hard work and creativity.
I once did a scholarly article for which I would receive absolutely no
money. I told The New Yorker that, when I requested permission to reproduce
one of their cartoons in my article, because it was a fantastic instance of
the cultural issue my article addressed. I had to pay them a small fee as
royalty before they granted permission, and they requested as well a copy
of the final article to make sure I kept to my end of the bargain. I was,
then, able to use their cleverness.
We have to understand that people who make music, poems, arts, dance,
movies, TV shows, etc., and journalists, deserve to be able to make a
living from their art or reporting. The internet has grossly distorted the
economics of the artistic world, in that everybody "lifts" stuff and seems
offended when they're asked to pay to have it. Aggregators who don't pay
anything for what they use are among the scum of the earth.
I have no sympathy for people who think art is free just because someone
pirated a work of art and put it up on the web.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, <email obscured> <
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of
> the movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing
> stadium. The use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing
that
> the producers of the video make any is pointless.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a
> phone booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds"
> and the actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have
> permission to use copyrighted material.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > John Ferman
> > Kingfield Neighborhood
> > Minneapolis, MN
> > Email in header
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe
> glass.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&typ
e=2&theater
> >
> > Jack Ferman
> > Kingfield, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
> >
> >
> > *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
> >
> > Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
> >
> > The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
> >
> > Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
> >
> >
> > * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> > Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> > A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> > 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> > If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> > <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
> >
> > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3B712QUDWRh1QiUOM4B7Zq
>
>
> *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
>
> Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
>
> The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
>
> Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
>
>
> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
Connie Sullivan
Southeast Como, Minneapolis
About/contact Connie Sullivan:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/conniesullivan
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6To4C2WsJDR7TBFIB744zm
*** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
Midnight Central.
Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
12/15/2014
* E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
<email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
From: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org [mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org] On
Behalf Of Constance Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:54 PM
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Be careful, when it's artistic creation. I think you have to pay to use a
clip from a Hitchcock film like "The Birds." It doesn't have to do with
whether the video-maker makes money off it; it's asking permission and
paying to take advantage of someone else's hard work and creativity.
I once did a scholarly article for which I would receive absolutely no
money. I told The New Yorker that, when I requested permission to reproduce
one of their cartoons in my article, because it was a fantastic instance of
the cultural issue my article addressed. I had to pay them a small fee as
royalty before they granted permission, and they requested as well a copy
of the final article to make sure I kept to my end of the bargain. I was,
then, able to use their cleverness.
We have to understand that people who make music, poems, arts, dance,
movies, TV shows, etc., and journalists, deserve to be able to make a
living from their art or reporting. The internet has grossly distorted the
economics of the artistic world, in that everybody "lifts" stuff and seems
offended when they're asked to pay to have it. Aggregators who don't pay
anything for what they use are among the scum of the earth.
I have no sympathy for people who think art is free just because someone
pirated a work of art and put it up on the web.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, <email obscured> <
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of
> the movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing
> stadium. The use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing
that
> the producers of the video make any is pointless.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a
> phone booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds"
> and the actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have
> permission to use copyrighted material.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > John Ferman
> > Kingfield Neighborhood
> > Minneapolis, MN
> > Email in header
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe
> glass.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&typ
e=2&theater
> >
> > Jack Ferman
> > Kingfield, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
> >
> >
> > *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
> >
> > Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
> >
> > The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
> >
> > Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
> >
> >
> > * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> > Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> > A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> > 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> > If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> > <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
> >
> > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3B712QUDWRh1QiUOM4B7Zq
>
>
> *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
>
> Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
>
> The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
>
> Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
>
>
> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
Connie Sullivan
Southeast Como, Minneapolis
About/contact Connie Sullivan:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/conniesullivan
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6To4C2WsJDR7TBFIB744zm
*** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
Midnight Central.
Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
12/15/2014
* E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
<email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
There's a significant difference here: the scenes shown in this youtube video
were just a few seconds out of a full movie. In your case, you used the entire
cartoon in your article. Using only a small excerpt from a film is far more
likely to fall under "fair use", just like quoting a few lines in a book
review. But a cartoon is a single entity, and using it is like posting the
whole book online as part of your review - not fair to the author.
were just a few seconds out of a full movie. In your case, you used the entire
cartoon in your article. Using only a small excerpt from a film is far more
likely to fall under "fair use", just like quoting a few lines in a book
review. But a cartoon is a single entity, and using it is like posting the
whole book online as part of your review - not fair to the author.
This video is a perfect example of "fair use." All the amateur Perry Mason's
out there need to do a little research. Deciding if Video is Fair Use
| |
| | | | | | | |
| Deciding if Video is Fair UseStep 2: Decide if your video is fair use |
| |
| View on fairusetube.org | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
From: Jim Bernstein <<email obscured>>
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Universal Pictures owns the distribution rights to "The Birds". From
Universal Studios comes this warning: "Any public performance, copying, or
use of this theatrical production with the expressed permission of Universal
Pictures is strictly prohibited." The copyright is retained by Alfred
Hitchcock Productions. Even though that entity no longer exists, it does
retain an agent in Los Angeles to enforce the copyright. It is a violation
of federal law to use a copyrighted theatrical production without the
permission of the copyright holder and the statues governing violation
provides for both criminal and civil penalties for unauthorized use.
Jim Bernstein
Fulton
With assistance from his
cousin Barbara Hines,
retired production manager,
Warner Bros. and NBC Studios
out there need to do a little research. Deciding if Video is Fair Use
| |
| | | | | | | |
| Deciding if Video is Fair UseStep 2: Decide if your video is fair use |
| |
| View on fairusetube.org | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
From: Jim Bernstein <<email obscured>>
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Universal Pictures owns the distribution rights to "The Birds". From
Universal Studios comes this warning: "Any public performance, copying, or
use of this theatrical production with the expressed permission of Universal
Pictures is strictly prohibited." The copyright is retained by Alfred
Hitchcock Productions. Even though that entity no longer exists, it does
retain an agent in Los Angeles to enforce the copyright. It is a violation
of federal law to use a copyrighted theatrical production without the
permission of the copyright holder and the statues governing violation
provides for both criminal and civil penalties for unauthorized use.
Jim Bernstein
Fulton
With assistance from his
cousin Barbara Hines,
retired production manager,
Warner Bros. and NBC Studios
-----Original Message-----
From: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org [mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org] On
Behalf Of Constance Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:54 PM
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Be careful, when it's artistic creation. I think you have to pay to use a
clip from a Hitchcock film like "The Birds." It doesn't have to do with
whether the video-maker makes money off it; it's asking permission and
paying to take advantage of someone else's hard work and creativity.
I once did a scholarly article for which I would receive absolutely no
money. I told The New Yorker that, when I requested permission to reproduce
one of their cartoons in my article, because it was a fantastic instance of
the cultural issue my article addressed. I had to pay them a small fee as
royalty before they granted permission, and they requested as well a copy
of the final article to make sure I kept to my end of the bargain. I was,
then, able to use their cleverness.
We have to understand that people who make music, poems, arts, dance,
movies, TV shows, etc., and journalists, deserve to be able to make a
living from their art or reporting. The internet has grossly distorted the
economics of the artistic world, in that everybody "lifts" stuff and seems
offended when they're asked to pay to have it. Aggregators who don't pay
anything for what they use are among the scum of the earth.
I have no sympathy for people who think art is free just because someone
pirated a work of art and put it up on the web.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, <email obscured> <
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of
> the movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing
> stadium. The use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing
that
> the producers of the video make any is pointless.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a
> phone booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds"
> and the actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have
> permission to use copyrighted material.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > John Ferman
> > Kingfield Neighborhood
> > Minneapolis, MN
> > Email in header
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe
> glass.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&typ
e=2&theater
> >
> > Jack Ferman
> > Kingfield, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
> >
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> >
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>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
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Connie Sullivan
Southeast Como, Minneapolis
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From: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org [mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org] On
Behalf Of Constance Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:54 PM
To: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Bird saving film going on the stadium
Be careful, when it's artistic creation. I think you have to pay to use a
clip from a Hitchcock film like "The Birds." It doesn't have to do with
whether the video-maker makes money off it; it's asking permission and
paying to take advantage of someone else's hard work and creativity.
I once did a scholarly article for which I would receive absolutely no
money. I told The New Yorker that, when I requested permission to reproduce
one of their cartoons in my article, because it was a fantastic instance of
the cultural issue my article addressed. I had to pay them a small fee as
royalty before they granted permission, and they requested as well a copy
of the final article to make sure I kept to my end of the bargain. I was,
then, able to use their cleverness.
We have to understand that people who make music, poems, arts, dance,
movies, TV shows, etc., and journalists, deserve to be able to make a
living from their art or reporting. The internet has grossly distorted the
economics of the artistic world, in that everybody "lifts" stuff and seems
offended when they're asked to pay to have it. Aggregators who don't pay
anything for what they use are among the scum of the earth.
I have no sympathy for people who think art is free just because someone
pirated a work of art and put it up on the web.
Connie Sullivan
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM, <email obscured> <
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I believe this would be considered fair use as it puts a short scene of
> the movie in the larger context of a Vikings game in a bird killing
> stadium. The use can only make the copyright owners money, and arguing
that
> the producers of the video make any is pointless.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:52 PM, John Ferman <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Say this yesterday from the MPR Facebook feed. The birds and woman in a
> phone booth are clips taken from Alfred Hitchcock's 1963 film "The Birds"
> and the actress is Tippi Hendren. Did the producers of this video have
> permission to use copyrighted material.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> > John Ferman
> > Kingfield Neighborhood
> > Minneapolis, MN
> > Email in header
> >
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2014, at 12:06 PM, Wendy Haan-Wendybird <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Here is a preview of game day in the new stadium without bird-safe
> glass.
> >>
> >>
>
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=593099503308&set=o.1537892496442653&typ
e=2&theater
> >
> > Jack Ferman
> > Kingfield, Minneapolis
> > About/contact Jack Ferman: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnferman
> >
> > View full topic:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/74shv3SLOJwXNfL8jqaGeR
> >
> >
> > *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
> >
> > Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
> >
> > The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
> >
> > Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
> >
> >
> > * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> > Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> > A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply All" to comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
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> >
> >
> > 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> > If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> > <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
> >
> > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
> Bill Kahn
> PPERR , http://www.lastminneapolismayor.org
> About/contact Bill Kahn: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/billkahn
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3B712QUDWRh1QiUOM4B7Zq
>
>
> *** Saint Paul and Minneapolis Neighbors Forum Survey ***
>
> Answer the participant survey and be entered to win an iPad mini:
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/neighborsforumsurveyF
>
> The sooner you respond, the more chances to win. Deadline Dec. 21,
> Midnight Central.
>
> Must be member of a Saint Paul or Minneapolis Neighbors Forum as of
> 12/15/2014
>
>
> * E-Democracy Pledge Drive - Donors: 89 Total: $3337 US
> Donate: http://e-democracy.org/donate?today
> A great start to cover crucial $10,000 tech and help cost.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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>
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>
Connie Sullivan
Southeast Como, Minneapolis
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In addition to the Alfred Hitchcock Foundation and Universal Studios, there is
a third person in play. That is the actress in the phone booth scene clips -
Tippi Hedren. She is living. There is an article about her on Wikipedia. I
would think the copyright infringement matter strays from Mpls Issues
relevance.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
a third person in play. That is the actress in the phone booth scene clips -
Tippi Hedren. She is living. There is an article about her on Wikipedia. I
would think the copyright infringement matter strays from Mpls Issues
relevance.
Sent from my iPad
John Ferman
Kingfield Neighborhood
Minneapolis, MN
Email in header
> On Dec 16, 2014, at 3:58 PM, Jim Bernstein <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Universal Pictures owns the distribution rights to "The Birds". From
> Universal Studios comes this warning: "Any public performance, copying, or
> use of this theatrical production with the expressed permission of Universal
> Pictures is strictly prohibited." The copyright is retained by Alfred
> Hitchcock Productions. Even though that entity no longer exists, it does
> retain an agent in Los Angeles to enforce the copyright. It is a violation
> of federal law to use a copyrighted theatrical production without the
> permission of the copyright holder and the statues governing violation
> provides for both criminal and civil penalties for unauthorized use.
>
>
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