St Paul & Minneapolis Use Ranked Voting Differently
- 6 posts by 6 authors
- Last post by Ken Bearman at 1:51am, Nov 10, 2017
Keywords:
- vote
- rank
- second
- win
- candidate
We get so many of the checks and balances, I'm wondering if you could identify
the editorial 'we' I see. I didn't see it there. Thanks much.
P.S. Maybe you did once before but I missed it. Sorry.
the editorial 'we' I see. I didn't see it there. Thanks much.
P.S. Maybe you did once before but I missed it. Sorry.
-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured>
To: stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org
Cc:
Sent: 2017-11-08 5:25:13 PM
Subject: [SPIF] St Paul & Minneapolis Use Ranked Voting Differently
checksandbalances.com/2017/11/08/in-st-paul-a-majority-result-with-a-minority-people-ranking-their-vote-in-minneapolis-just-the-opposite/
Shawn Towle
East Side, St Paul
About/contact Shawn Towle: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/checksbalancessame
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More inaccurate stuff from Checks and Balances.... as I commented there,
Your numbers are way off. From the SOS website, there were 46,943 second choice
votes, or over 75% of the number of first choice votes.
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/MunicipalRaces/107?districtid=58000
Your numbers are way off. From the SOS website, there were 46,943 second choice
votes, or over 75% of the number of first choice votes.
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/MunicipalRaces/107?districtid=58000
Attached is an Excel file of the St Paul Mayoral vote by ranked
choice. I added a calculation for the % of the first rank for the
votes cast on each subsequent ranking.
John Sherman
Ensconced on the hills of the West Side
On 11/9/2017 1:02 PM, Eric Foster wrote:
> More inaccurate stuff from Checks and Balances.... as I commented there,
>
> Your numbers are way off. From the SOS website, there were 46,943 second
choice votes, or over 75% of the number of first choice votes.
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/MunicipalRaces/107?districtid=58000
>
>
> Eric Foster
> Dayton's Bluff, Saint Paul
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choice. I added a calculation for the % of the first rank for the
votes cast on each subsequent ranking.
John Sherman
Ensconced on the hills of the West Side
On 11/9/2017 1:02 PM, Eric Foster wrote:
> More inaccurate stuff from Checks and Balances.... as I commented there,
>
> Your numbers are way off. From the SOS website, there were 46,943 second
choice votes, or over 75% of the number of first choice votes.
http://electionresults.sos.state.mn.us/Results/MunicipalRaces/107?districtid=58000
>
>
> Eric Foster
> Dayton's Bluff, Saint Paul
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My view hasn't changed about RCV. It is a solution in search of a problem as
this year's returns in St. Paul's mayors race shows. Because I tried to
reward some of the second tier candidates with by ranking them first and second
on my ballot, the person I wanted to win never got my vote because I ranked
the candidate 3rd on my ballot. Not a big deal in the larger scheme of
things, it wouldn't have changed the eventual outcome.
Before the debate about the pro and cons of RCV heat up I would point you to
some remarks made by Corey Cook, the dean of the Boise State University School
of Public Service. They appeared in a MinnPost article by reporter Peter
Callaghan
“If you have two candidates relatively close together, and again, the race is
well-defined, the person who has the second number of first place votes can win
by winning second (and third) place votes,” he said.
Could something like this — where the first-round frontrunner doesn’t
ultimately win — happen in Minneapolis and St. Paul?
“That could very well happen,” Cook said, though it’s unlikely. “It’s very
uncommon, because you have to have sort of a uniquely polarizing frontrunner,”
he said. “Typically you see the person who gets the most first-place votes also
gets the most second-place votes. In almost every case, the leading candidate
increases the margin in subsequent rounds of voting.”
See the full article at
https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2017/11/carter-wins-historic-victory-st-paul-frey-leads-minneapolis-challengers-pois
I think it is interesting to note the number of votes for Green Party
candidate Elizabeth Dickinson. She fiished in 4th place with only 4.75% of the
vote. I thought being a credible candidate and the only woman in the race
should would have gotten more votes. In 2005 she
this year's returns in St. Paul's mayors race shows. Because I tried to
reward some of the second tier candidates with by ranking them first and second
on my ballot, the person I wanted to win never got my vote because I ranked
the candidate 3rd on my ballot. Not a big deal in the larger scheme of
things, it wouldn't have changed the eventual outcome.
Before the debate about the pro and cons of RCV heat up I would point you to
some remarks made by Corey Cook, the dean of the Boise State University School
of Public Service. They appeared in a MinnPost article by reporter Peter
Callaghan
“If you have two candidates relatively close together, and again, the race is
well-defined, the person who has the second number of first place votes can win
by winning second (and third) place votes,” he said.
Could something like this — where the first-round frontrunner doesn’t
ultimately win — happen in Minneapolis and St. Paul?
“That could very well happen,” Cook said, though it’s unlikely. “It’s very
uncommon, because you have to have sort of a uniquely polarizing frontrunner,”
he said. “Typically you see the person who gets the most first-place votes also
gets the most second-place votes. In almost every case, the leading candidate
increases the margin in subsequent rounds of voting.”
See the full article at
https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2017/11/carter-wins-historic-victory-st-paul-frey-leads-minneapolis-challengers-pois
I think it is interesting to note the number of votes for Green Party
candidate Elizabeth Dickinson. She fiished in 4th place with only 4.75% of the
vote. I thought being a credible candidate and the only woman in the race
should would have gotten more votes. In 2005 she
On 11/9/2017 6:49 PM, Dennis Hill wrote:
> “If you have two candidates relatively close together, and again, the race is
well-defined, the person who has the second number of first place votes can win
by winning second (and third) place votes,” he said.
>
> Could something like this — where the first-round frontrunner doesn’t
ultimately win — happen in Minneapolis and St. Paul?
= = = = =
[KB] Tuesday it did happen in Minneapolis. In Ward 3 and Ward 4, each
winner* was second in first choice counts.
* Steve Fletcher in 3 and Philippe Cunningham in 4
> “If you have two candidates relatively close together, and again, the race is
well-defined, the person who has the second number of first place votes can win
by winning second (and third) place votes,” he said.
>
> Could something like this — where the first-round frontrunner doesn’t
ultimately win — happen in Minneapolis and St. Paul?
= = = = =
[KB] Tuesday it did happen in Minneapolis. In Ward 3 and Ward 4, each
winner* was second in first choice counts.
* Steve Fletcher in 3 and Philippe Cunningham in 4
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