closes on May 3. http://umn.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_7NW0fYyeNc7sCIR
Should Saint Paul change alley plowing?
- 25 posts by 11 authors
- Last post by John Gaylord at 7:15pm, Aug 23, 2019
Keywords:
- plow
- alley
- cities
- Eric
- survey
I wonder why an online survey requires a $30,000 investment?
(https://outline.com/GV6xfb)
In the reporting it is noted the City would have to purchase a new fleet of
plow trucks. I trust these would all be electric.
(https://outline.com/GV6xfb)
In the reporting it is noted the City would have to purchase a new fleet of
plow trucks. I trust these would all be electric.
https://www.apnews.com/04029bd1e0a94cd59ff9540a398c12d1
I'd also think our block would still hire someone seeing that it wouldn't get
done fast enough or good enough.
I'd also think our block would still hire someone seeing that it wouldn't get
done fast enough or good enough.
I also questioned the $30k. I assume a recommendation is also part of the
proposal. I suspect this survey could have been done by a graduate course for
a couple grand.
The desire to spend our tax dollars probably arises from a perspective of a
student for whom I recently taught. She debated the need to understand the
calculation of area for basic shapes in this math class. She posited that she
would pay for the "expertise" to calculate areas for projects (construction,
etc.). Is our council like this student? Is there any expertise within our
St. Paul staff?
Disassociating ourselves from such "backyard", neighborhood duties will only
convert OUR government into THE government where we let others take care of us
as THEY see fit. Are mowing/raking the boulevards the next proposal?
Scary DFL.
proposal. I suspect this survey could have been done by a graduate course for
a couple grand.
The desire to spend our tax dollars probably arises from a perspective of a
student for whom I recently taught. She debated the need to understand the
calculation of area for basic shapes in this math class. She posited that she
would pay for the "expertise" to calculate areas for projects (construction,
etc.). Is our council like this student? Is there any expertise within our
St. Paul staff?
Disassociating ourselves from such "backyard", neighborhood duties will only
convert OUR government into THE government where we let others take care of us
as THEY see fit. Are mowing/raking the boulevards the next proposal?
Scary DFL.
Yes, we must defend our rights to life, liberty, trash disposal, and alley
plowing!
Seriously, folks, it comes down to this: alleys are maintained by the City
already (they re-surface them every few years and assess the residents). Why
not plow them too? How are they so different from streets? The current system
doesn't work for large parts of the City. I currently don't have an alley, but
when I did, I tried repeatedly to get my neighbors to chip in for alley
plowing. I couldn't get any of them to do so. So my options were: pay the
total bill myself for the whole block (my house was second from the corner), or
let it go unplowed and deal with the little section nearest my house. Neither
was a particularly good option....
Things like trash collection and alley plowing are in my view core obligations
of cities. Most cities in my experience perform these functions. I assume in
St. Paul they were outsourced at some point to the private sector during the
time when outsourcing was fashionable, or St. Paul curmudgeonness kept them
from ever being done by the City. Either way, it's high time....
plowing!
Seriously, folks, it comes down to this: alleys are maintained by the City
already (they re-surface them every few years and assess the residents). Why
not plow them too? How are they so different from streets? The current system
doesn't work for large parts of the City. I currently don't have an alley, but
when I did, I tried repeatedly to get my neighbors to chip in for alley
plowing. I couldn't get any of them to do so. So my options were: pay the
total bill myself for the whole block (my house was second from the corner), or
let it go unplowed and deal with the little section nearest my house. Neither
was a particularly good option....
Things like trash collection and alley plowing are in my view core obligations
of cities. Most cities in my experience perform these functions. I assume in
St. Paul they were outsourced at some point to the private sector during the
time when outsourcing was fashionable, or St. Paul curmudgeonness kept them
from ever being done by the City. Either way, it's high time....
Eric, how many times has your alley been repaired and how long have you lived
here?
In 26 years my Highland Park alley near Snelling and Randolph has been repaved
once and pot holes patched about every five years.
The alley plow service we use knows our alley and where to put the snow so not
to pile it up in the first parallel driveway. They also come more than once on
big snowfalls.
I could see us waiting a day or two to get one pass thru with a driver not
caring about doing a good job.
Will we all get charged the same amount? Or will Ward 3 end up footing more
than it's share if the bill?
here?
In 26 years my Highland Park alley near Snelling and Randolph has been repaved
once and pot holes patched about every five years.
The alley plow service we use knows our alley and where to put the snow so not
to pile it up in the first parallel driveway. They also come more than once on
big snowfalls.
I could see us waiting a day or two to get one pass thru with a driver not
caring about doing a good job.
Will we all get charged the same amount? Or will Ward 3 end up footing more
than it's share if the bill?
I believe our alley was re-sealed once in the almost 10 years I owned the
house. My point was that the City already has SOME responsibility over
alleys-- it's not like they're proposing to come in and clean your bathrooms.
house. My point was that the City already has SOME responsibility over
alleys-- it's not like they're proposing to come in and clean your bathrooms.
Eric, I'm glad you brought up the difference between re-sealing every decade or
so and plowing after every snowfall. That is a material difference for many
reasons. Besides the obvious, alley resealing covers the entire city once per
decade - that is dealing with a section of the city at a time - not the entire
city simultaneously multiple times in a season.
The primary argument against St. Paul's government taking on such a task is
that they are woefully unable to do a good job. Having to purchase an entirely
new fleet of trucks, people to man them, and infrastructure to service them.
Administrators to manage the fleet and the employees, to manage billing and
customer service. It is a massive buildup of City departments for something
that is already handled adequately. This will be massively expensive. In the
past the City has proved either unwilling or unable to correctly convey the
costs to voters, so we can't count on an accurate estimate up-front.
Eric, you were unable to cooperate with your neighbors to do the job, so you
want the City to take over and force us all to pay - using force of law. Yet
you mock those of us who don't want to give more power to the City of St. Paul
("we must defend our rights to life, liberty, trash disposal, and alley
plowing!")
so and plowing after every snowfall. That is a material difference for many
reasons. Besides the obvious, alley resealing covers the entire city once per
decade - that is dealing with a section of the city at a time - not the entire
city simultaneously multiple times in a season.
The primary argument against St. Paul's government taking on such a task is
that they are woefully unable to do a good job. Having to purchase an entirely
new fleet of trucks, people to man them, and infrastructure to service them.
Administrators to manage the fleet and the employees, to manage billing and
customer service. It is a massive buildup of City departments for something
that is already handled adequately. This will be massively expensive. In the
past the City has proved either unwilling or unable to correctly convey the
costs to voters, so we can't count on an accurate estimate up-front.
Eric, you were unable to cooperate with your neighbors to do the job, so you
want the City to take over and force us all to pay - using force of law. Yet
you mock those of us who don't want to give more power to the City of St. Paul
("we must defend our rights to life, liberty, trash disposal, and alley
plowing!")
Informed by the experience of the solid waste transition, I have extreme
doubts about the city's ability to manage the alley plowing. Once public
works figures out how to maintain essential streets like Summit - to say
nothing of less essential streets - then we should talk about new
responsibilities. But I would be focused on how to get public works to do
its job better before loading it up with new responsibilities.
doubts about the city's ability to manage the alley plowing. Once public
works figures out how to maintain essential streets like Summit - to say
nothing of less essential streets - then we should talk about new
responsibilities. But I would be focused on how to get public works to do
its job better before loading it up with new responsibilities.
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 1:13 PM John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
> Eric, I'm glad you brought up the difference between re-sealing every
> decade or so and plowing after every snowfall. That is a material
> difference for many reasons. Besides the obvious, alley resealing covers
> the entire city once per decade - that is dealing with a section of the
> city at a time - not the entire city simultaneously multiple times in a
> season.
>
> The primary argument against St. Paul's government taking on such a task
> is that they are woefully unable to do a good job. Having to purchase an
> entirely new fleet of trucks, people to man them, and infrastructure to
> service them. Administrators to manage the fleet and the employees, to
> manage billing and customer service. It is a massive buildup of City
> departments for something that is already handled adequately. This will be
> massively expensive. In the past the City has proved either unwilling or
> unable to correctly convey the costs to voters, so we can't count on an
> accurate estimate up-front.
>
> Eric, you were unable to cooperate with your neighbors to do the job, so
> you want the City to take over and force us all to pay - using force of
> law. Yet you mock those of us who don't want to give more power to the City
> of St. Paul ("we must defend our rights to life, liberty, trash disposal,
> and alley plowing!")
>
>
>
> John Gaylord
> Union Park, St. Paul
> About/contact John Gaylord: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johngaylord
>
>
> * Work or live in Downtown Saint Paul? Take our survey:
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/downtownstpaulsurveyft
>
> * Questions about rule violations? Contact: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3lWLYqBmHdaBKgUdGbMNOj
> New Topic: stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-issues
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
--
--christopher mitchell
--http://www.sportshotphoto.com -- need a photographer?
Except alley plowing is clearly not being handled "adequately" under the
current (non-) system. Garbage and recycling trucks were unable to get through
in large parts of the City and thus people's garbage was not picked up during
the snow. It may well be that in the richer parts of the City it's all working
fine, but on the East Side, and, I suspect, many other parts of the City, it's
not working at all.
Common reasons why the "block captain" 'system' doesn't work anymore: absentee
landlords; rental properties where residents aren't willing to pay for
something they view as landlords' responsibility (see, 'absentee landlords')
plus frequent turnover in population; poverty which means residents can't
afford another expense; immigrant populations where residents may not
understand the system and/or the language of the person doing the asking.....
All of these things explain why that 'system' isn't so good for much of the
City.
You might notice that I haven't said that I think we need the City to do the
alley plowing. I'm merely saying that we have a problem and it needs a
solution. Options include some sort of organized private plowing system, where
the City compels residents to get their alley plowed but keeps the private
plowers; or a full-blown City service. Maybe there are other options too. But
sitting in your Highland Park neighborhood and complaining that the poorer
parts of the City are "unable to cooperate" won't cut it.
current (non-) system. Garbage and recycling trucks were unable to get through
in large parts of the City and thus people's garbage was not picked up during
the snow. It may well be that in the richer parts of the City it's all working
fine, but on the East Side, and, I suspect, many other parts of the City, it's
not working at all.
Common reasons why the "block captain" 'system' doesn't work anymore: absentee
landlords; rental properties where residents aren't willing to pay for
something they view as landlords' responsibility (see, 'absentee landlords')
plus frequent turnover in population; poverty which means residents can't
afford another expense; immigrant populations where residents may not
understand the system and/or the language of the person doing the asking.....
All of these things explain why that 'system' isn't so good for much of the
City.
You might notice that I haven't said that I think we need the City to do the
alley plowing. I'm merely saying that we have a problem and it needs a
solution. Options include some sort of organized private plowing system, where
the City compels residents to get their alley plowed but keeps the private
plowers; or a full-blown City service. Maybe there are other options too. But
sitting in your Highland Park neighborhood and complaining that the poorer
parts of the City are "unable to cooperate" won't cut it.
Eric raises an interesting point - perhaps alley plowing is something that
could be triggered by an event like recycling or hauling companies
reporting an alley is not passable. There could be a threshold at which
point an alley is plowed by the city and area residents charged.
I still have deep reservations about handing public works more
responsibility, but I think a key is not to make things worse. I don't know
what the breakdown is across the city in terms of the state of alleys. I
suspect Eureka does. Has anyone actually collected data or are we basing
everything on our beliefs about different neighborhoods?
could be triggered by an event like recycling or hauling companies
reporting an alley is not passable. There could be a threshold at which
point an alley is plowed by the city and area residents charged.
I still have deep reservations about handing public works more
responsibility, but I think a key is not to make things worse. I don't know
what the breakdown is across the city in terms of the state of alleys. I
suspect Eureka does. Has anyone actually collected data or are we basing
everything on our beliefs about different neighborhoods?
On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 9:08 AM Eric Foster <<email obscured>> wrote:
> Except alley plowing is clearly not being handled "adequately" under the
> current (non-) system. Garbage and recycling trucks were unable to get
> through in large parts of the City and thus people's garbage was not picked
> up during the snow. It may well be that in the richer parts of the City
> it's all working fine, but on the East Side, and, I suspect, many other
> parts of the City, it's not working at all.
>
> Common reasons why the "block captain" 'system' doesn't work anymore:
> absentee landlords; rental properties where residents aren't willing to pay
> for something they view as landlords' responsibility (see, 'absentee
> landlords') plus frequent turnover in population; poverty which means
> residents can't afford another expense; immigrant populations where
> residents may not understand the system and/or the language of the person
> doing the asking.....
>
> All of these things explain why that 'system' isn't so good for much of
> the City.
>
> You might notice that I haven't said that I think we need the City to do
> the alley plowing. I'm merely saying that we have a problem and it needs a
> solution. Options include some sort of organized private plowing system,
> where the City compels residents to get their alley plowed but keeps the
> private plowers; or a full-blown City service. Maybe there are other
> options too. But sitting in your Highland Park neighborhood and
> complaining that the poorer parts of the City are "unable to cooperate"
> won't cut it.
>
> Eric Foster
> Dayton's Bluff, Saint Paul
> About/contact Eric Foster: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/ericfoster
>
>
> * Work or live in Downtown Saint Paul? Take our survey:
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/downtownstpaulsurveyft
>
> * Questions about rule violations? Contact: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6UTCQUu1pNDd0k7GnDDaLR
> New Topic: stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-issues
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
--
--christopher mitchell
--http://www.sportshotphoto.com -- need a photographer?
Christopher says: "...perhaps alley plowing is something that could be
triggered by an event like recycling or hauling companies reporting an alley is
not passable."
That would take 'government control' one step further and become a vicious
cycle, where the garbage haulers excuse failure by pointing back at the City.
We already have $600,000 in deficient garbage bills, along with attendant
hearings and adjudication. Would you like to add deficient alley plowing bills
and adjudication about that too?
Eric says: "...I haven't said that I think we need the City to do the alley
plowing. I'm merely saying that we have a problem and it needs a solution."
Eric, that's a meaningless distinction. You said: "...alleys are maintained by
the City...Why not plow them too?" You say we currently have a "(non-) system"
but you are wrong, it is a system - just not controlled by downtown
bureaucrats. Do a few alley captains dislike it? Sure. Are some vendors
unreliable? No doubt. The solution you propose *is* alley plowing by the City.
But it is not a solution to the problem, it is replacing a small problem with a
much larger one.
triggered by an event like recycling or hauling companies reporting an alley is
not passable."
That would take 'government control' one step further and become a vicious
cycle, where the garbage haulers excuse failure by pointing back at the City.
We already have $600,000 in deficient garbage bills, along with attendant
hearings and adjudication. Would you like to add deficient alley plowing bills
and adjudication about that too?
Eric says: "...I haven't said that I think we need the City to do the alley
plowing. I'm merely saying that we have a problem and it needs a solution."
Eric, that's a meaningless distinction. You said: "...alleys are maintained by
the City...Why not plow them too?" You say we currently have a "(non-) system"
but you are wrong, it is a system - just not controlled by downtown
bureaucrats. Do a few alley captains dislike it? Sure. Are some vendors
unreliable? No doubt. The solution you propose *is* alley plowing by the City.
But it is not a solution to the problem, it is replacing a small problem with a
much larger one.
According to the IPCC we have 12 years (144 months) as of Oct 2018 to limit
climate change catastrophe (http://tinyurl.com/y733zf76). The St. Paul Climate
Action Plan (http://tinyurl.com/y5lstaum) explicitly calls this out as its
primary rationale.
I believe this is an obvious case of fear mongering - and that neither city
leadership nor many of its supporters actually believe that rationale. Its
purpose is to bully everyone into going along.
Considering the IPCC has given us 137 months (and counting) to act - who can
explain why buying a fleet of new snow plows is wise?
climate change catastrophe (http://tinyurl.com/y733zf76). The St. Paul Climate
Action Plan (http://tinyurl.com/y5lstaum) explicitly calls this out as its
primary rationale.
I believe this is an obvious case of fear mongering - and that neither city
leadership nor many of its supporters actually believe that rationale. Its
purpose is to bully everyone into going along.
Considering the IPCC has given us 137 months (and counting) to act - who can
explain why buying a fleet of new snow plows is wise?
The claim is the current system is not working or fairly working (few people
pay). There are too many languages, too much poverty, too much mobility (often
absentee landlord), absentee landlords, etc.
First, has a visual survey been done to determine how bad it is?
Second, could the issues be handled directly?
Absentee landlords - liens on property after submission of miss payment by
block leader
Too many languages - Google translate / City could develop downloadable
handouts that explain the law, how to pay, and who to pay.
Poverty - If $5-10 is too hard to pay, they could help distribute the flyers.
The issue could be handled as a code violation that garbage or recycle services
would highlight/report. All properties would be charged for the city to plow.
They would not need to have too much extra equipment to handle the citations.
As noted above, the City DOES NOT have a track record to handle the custom
service that alley plowing requires.
pay). There are too many languages, too much poverty, too much mobility (often
absentee landlord), absentee landlords, etc.
First, has a visual survey been done to determine how bad it is?
Second, could the issues be handled directly?
Absentee landlords - liens on property after submission of miss payment by
block leader
Too many languages - Google translate / City could develop downloadable
handouts that explain the law, how to pay, and who to pay.
Poverty - If $5-10 is too hard to pay, they could help distribute the flyers.
The issue could be handled as a code violation that garbage or recycle services
would highlight/report. All properties would be charged for the city to plow.
They would not need to have too much extra equipment to handle the citations.
As noted above, the City DOES NOT have a track record to handle the custom
service that alley plowing requires.
On the one hand we are contemplating catastrophic climate change, with an
explicit deadline 137 months away.
On the other, we're contemplating buying a fleet of snowplows to incrementally
improve alley plowing.
If we were serious about the first, we would realize the second is a
non-starter. The City needs to dramatically reduce its activities - not
increase them!
explicit deadline 137 months away.
On the other, we're contemplating buying a fleet of snowplows to incrementally
improve alley plowing.
If we were serious about the first, we would realize the second is a
non-starter. The City needs to dramatically reduce its activities - not
increase them!
Just a point of fact --
Eric mentioned that recycling and garbage wasn't picked up during a snow event
and seemed to attribute it to the alley plowing issue. I too live on the east
side and don't have an alley. Our garbage (and my neighbors' who live on
McKnight) wasn't picked up for two weeks because of snow and then the third
week (when the snow was even worse) they came and picked it up. Go figure.
And that was the big WasteManagement company.
A couple of things I like about the neighborhood plowing of alleys (I have one
rental property that is on an alley)...
> it makes neighbors talk and work together -- it seems like we get more and
more isolate from each other. It made me meet more people in the neighborhood
and get to know them better. However, on this block nearly everyone
participates.
> it gives work to self-employed (usually) small businesses that are generally
local - who do that kind of plowing in the winter. Having the city plow would
certainly change their annual income.
> I think the alleys get plowed faster by these small businesses. We live on a
dead end road and if we didn't plow it ourselves we would be stuck at home for
at least a day after snowfalls waiting for the city to plow our road.
Eric mentioned that recycling and garbage wasn't picked up during a snow event
and seemed to attribute it to the alley plowing issue. I too live on the east
side and don't have an alley. Our garbage (and my neighbors' who live on
McKnight) wasn't picked up for two weeks because of snow and then the third
week (when the snow was even worse) they came and picked it up. Go figure.
And that was the big WasteManagement company.
A couple of things I like about the neighborhood plowing of alleys (I have one
rental property that is on an alley)...
> it makes neighbors talk and work together -- it seems like we get more and
more isolate from each other. It made me meet more people in the neighborhood
and get to know them better. However, on this block nearly everyone
participates.
> it gives work to self-employed (usually) small businesses that are generally
local - who do that kind of plowing in the winter. Having the city plow would
certainly change their annual income.
> I think the alleys get plowed faster by these small businesses. We live on a
dead end road and if we didn't plow it ourselves we would be stuck at home for
at least a day after snowfalls waiting for the city to plow our road.
Eric, Eureka failed to pick 5 times this past winter and 5 or 6 times the
previous winter under the nonsense excuse that they couldnโt get through our
plowed alley. Yet Geneโs Disposal had no problem last winter and Ken Berquist
and Son and the other haulers had no problem the previous winter. Itโs
Eurekaโs excuse to cover poor service and I would suspect the same for the
national trash hauler with serious problems.
previous winter under the nonsense excuse that they couldnโt get through our
plowed alley. Yet Geneโs Disposal had no problem last winter and Ken Berquist
and Son and the other haulers had no problem the previous winter. Itโs
Eurekaโs excuse to cover poor service and I would suspect the same for the
national trash hauler with serious problems.
Will a city owned plowing service do a good enough job that Eureka will
actually get recycling picked up?
Will a city run service give us more than one simple pass? And how soon after
the snow?
Presuming the city will buy electric plows, just how long will the battery
last?
Do we charge each block the same or charge Wards three and four more?
actually get recycling picked up?
Will a city run service give us more than one simple pass? And how soon after
the snow?
Presuming the city will buy electric plows, just how long will the battery
last?
Do we charge each block the same or charge Wards three and four more?
A private plow operator has started a Facebook group for discussion and invites
others to join: St Paul Alley Plowers United Facebook Group
(https://www.facebook.com/groups/2291495431170592/?fref=nf)
others to join: St Paul Alley Plowers United Facebook Group
(https://www.facebook.com/groups/2291495431170592/?fref=nf)
Hi All,
Should St. Paul undertake alley plowing, I say HELL NO! The city council took
over trash collection and look at what a mess that is and now they want to take
over alley plowing, I say HELL NO!
John Krenik, St. Paul, MN
Should St. Paul undertake alley plowing, I say HELL NO! The city council took
over trash collection and look at what a mess that is and now they want to take
over alley plowing, I say HELL NO!
John Krenik, St. Paul, MN
The results of the survey are in. Around 50% said โNoโ (not sure how many were
โHELL NO!โ)
Top themes (Survey results PPT slide #58):
.Please, do not let the City to take on this task
.Bad experiences with trash collection
.The City does not do a good job plowing the streets
.Do not think the City can manage it
.Do not tax those without alleys
.We pay maintenance fee, it should cover alley plowing
It should not take $30,000 to understand such an obvious issue. The study noted
that most of the respondents were white (slide #60) - Iโm not sure what that
means, since the city is majority white, and I didnโt see any breakdown as to
the racial composition of respondents (which may indeed be somewhere in the
docs).
https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/21/st-paul-alley-plowing-umn-consultants-cost/?fbclid=IwAR2ilwWn-zcaHq1keo5pm2zSJsQw7-0tRO-MRiOa2Jz0qBXJwV5o49LEoEM
โHELL NO!โ)
Top themes (Survey results PPT slide #58):
.Please, do not let the City to take on this task
.Bad experiences with trash collection
.The City does not do a good job plowing the streets
.Do not think the City can manage it
.Do not tax those without alleys
.We pay maintenance fee, it should cover alley plowing
It should not take $30,000 to understand such an obvious issue. The study noted
that most of the respondents were white (slide #60) - Iโm not sure what that
means, since the city is majority white, and I didnโt see any breakdown as to
the racial composition of respondents (which may indeed be somewhere in the
docs).
https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/21/st-paul-alley-plowing-umn-consultants-cost/?fbclid=IwAR2ilwWn-zcaHq1keo5pm2zSJsQw7-0tRO-MRiOa2Jz0qBXJwV5o49LEoEM
I take no sides, but seeing as I have some answers in front of me...
Racial composition of survey respondents is listed on slide-Page 9 of 63.
City is 52 percent white.
Survey respondents were 85 percent white.
Here's the link:
https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/default/files/Media%20Root/Public%20Works/Alley%20Plowing%20Final_PowerPt_2019%20U%20of%20MN.pdf
Demographics - All respondents
Race (n=6,878)
Race / St. Paul / Survey
White / 52.1% / 84.6%
Hispanic or Latino 9.7% 1.7%
Black or African American 15.5% 2.0%
American Indian or Alaska Native 0.6% 0.6%
Asian or Asian American 17.9% 2.7%
Pacific Islander 0.0% 0.1%
Other 4.2% 8.3%
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
> The results of the survey are in. Around 50% said โNoโ (not sure how many
> were โHELL NO!โ)
>
> Top themes (Survey results PPT slide #58):
> .Please, do not let the City to take on this task
> .Bad experiences with trash collection
> .The City does not do a good job plowing the streets
> .Do not think the City can manage it
> .Do not tax those without alleys
> .We pay maintenance fee, it should cover alley plowing
>
> It should not take $30,000 to understand such an obvious issue. The study
> noted that most of the respondents were white (slide #60) - Iโm not sure
> what that means, since the city is majority white, and I didnโt see any
> breakdown as to the racial composition of respondents (which may indeed be
> somewhere in the docs).
>
>
>
>
https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/21/st-paul-alley-plowing-umn-consultants-cost/?fbclid=IwAR2ilwWn-zcaHq1keo5pm2zSJsQw7-0tRO-MRiOa2Jz0qBXJwV5o49LEoEM
Racial composition of survey respondents is listed on slide-Page 9 of 63.
City is 52 percent white.
Survey respondents were 85 percent white.
Here's the link:
https://www.stpaul.gov/sites/default/files/Media%20Root/Public%20Works/Alley%20Plowing%20Final_PowerPt_2019%20U%20of%20MN.pdf
Demographics - All respondents
Race (n=6,878)
Race / St. Paul / Survey
White / 52.1% / 84.6%
Hispanic or Latino 9.7% 1.7%
Black or African American 15.5% 2.0%
American Indian or Alaska Native 0.6% 0.6%
Asian or Asian American 17.9% 2.7%
Pacific Islander 0.0% 0.1%
Other 4.2% 8.3%
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 3:30 PM John Gaylord <<email obscured>> wrote:
> The results of the survey are in. Around 50% said โNoโ (not sure how many
> were โHELL NO!โ)
>
> Top themes (Survey results PPT slide #58):
> .Please, do not let the City to take on this task
> .Bad experiences with trash collection
> .The City does not do a good job plowing the streets
> .Do not think the City can manage it
> .Do not tax those without alleys
> .We pay maintenance fee, it should cover alley plowing
>
> It should not take $30,000 to understand such an obvious issue. The study
> noted that most of the respondents were white (slide #60) - Iโm not sure
> what that means, since the city is majority white, and I didnโt see any
> breakdown as to the racial composition of respondents (which may indeed be
> somewhere in the docs).
>
>
>
>
https://www.twincities.com/2019/08/21/st-paul-alley-plowing-umn-consultants-cost/?fbclid=IwAR2ilwWn-zcaHq1keo5pm2zSJsQw7-0tRO-MRiOa2Jz0qBXJwV5o49LEoEM
>
> John Gaylord
> Union Park, St. Paul
> About/contact John Gaylord: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johngaylord
>
>
> * Work or live in Downtown Saint Paul? Take our survey:
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/downtownstpaulsurveyft
>
> * Questions about rule violations? Contact: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/aom4pNBleBezvhi1uvFqR
> New Topic: stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-issues
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
--
<https://checkout.twincities.com/subscriptionpanel>
Frederick Melo
St. Paul Bureau Chief / Reporter
Pioneer Press
10 River Park Plaza, Saint Paul, MN 55107
651-228-2172 / 651-398-5534 (c)
<email obscured> <<email obscured>>
Read the Pioneer Press daily: www.twincities.com
Follow me on Twitter: www.twitter/FrederickMelo and Facebook:
www.facebook.com/FrederickMeloReporter
> John Gaylord
> Union Park, St. Paul
> About/contact John Gaylord: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johngaylord
>
>
> * Work or live in Downtown Saint Paul? Take our survey:
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/downtownstpaulsurveyft
>
> * Questions about rule violations? Contact: <email obscured>
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/aom4pNBleBezvhi1uvFqR
> New Topic: stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-issues
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
--
<https://checkout.twincities.com/subscriptionpanel>
Frederick Melo
St. Paul Bureau Chief / Reporter
Pioneer Press
10 River Park Plaza, Saint Paul, MN 55107
651-228-2172 / 651-398-5534 (c)
<email obscured> <<email obscured>>
Read the Pioneer Press daily: www.twincities.com
Follow me on Twitter: www.twitter/FrederickMelo and Facebook:
www.facebook.com/FrederickMeloReporter
The garbage issue is not resolved.
Street maintenance is way, way behind.
Something has to be done with parking ramp downtown.
Taxes are going up AND they are going to beg the legislature for more money.
Don't they have enough to do at City Hall?
Street maintenance is way, way behind.
Something has to be done with parking ramp downtown.
Taxes are going up AND they are going to beg the legislature for more money.
Don't they have enough to do at City Hall?
On 8/22/2019 3:30 PM, John Gaylord wrote:
> The results of the survey are in. Around 50% said โNoโ (not sure how many
were โHELL NO!โ)
= = = = =
[KB]ย Are you also not sure how many said "Well, I don't know, but
probably not"?
> The results of the survey are in. Around 50% said โNoโ (not sure how many
were โHELL NO!โ)
= = = = =
[KB]ย Are you also not sure how many said "Well, I don't know, but
probably not"?
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Fred, thank you. So the City is 50% white, but whites represent 85% of the
respondents. How did this impact the results, and how should this data be
interpreted?
St. Paul Public Works said they were studying the feasibility of alley plowing
(e.g. http://tinyurl.com/y6xqco6r). Is there a feasibility study underway? What
is the next step? Does the fact that a majority said they don't want it end the
matter?
respondents. How did this impact the results, and how should this data be
interpreted?
St. Paul Public Works said they were studying the feasibility of alley plowing
(e.g. http://tinyurl.com/y6xqco6r). Is there a feasibility study underway? What
is the next step? Does the fact that a majority said they don't want it end the
matter?
Hide the post
Loadingโฆ