Post in Opposing the Police Tactic of Arresting the Minibus

May 31 03:41 UTC

Ed,

  Yes I was simplifying the position somewhat but the position remains the
same.  What I don't accept is what is effectively a presumption of guilt, where
you say 'As a practical rule of thumb, I would expect most enforcement officers
(police or VOSA) would work on the principle that a minibus displaying a S.19
permit is legal and one that doesn't could easily be illegal.'

  There is no basis for such a presumption.  On the contrary innocence until
proven guilty should be the rule but the reality is that people going to a
demonstration are indeed treated as guilty until proved innocent.

  You are right about the 5 conditions, which I precised ('etc.').  But in the
case of our minibus all these conditions were met and more to the point there
was actually another driver with a qualifying license anyway.

  Tony

Ed Bassford <ed-bassford@btconnect.com> wrote:
  You've not quite stated the legal position on minibus driving correctly,
Tony.

The driving licence situation is that anyone who is driving a minibus needs
a category D1 entitlement or must meet the criteria that gives them
exemption from the D1 requirement.

If you passed your car test before 1 January 1997 (not 2007) you
automatically have a D1 entitlement. If you passed your test after 1997,
you don't - and a second test is needed before you can drive a minibus,
UNLESS certain criteria apply. These are:-

You may drive a minibus with up to 16 passenger seats provided:
(i) you drive on behalf of a non commercial body for social purposes but not
for hire or reward (unless operating under a permit);
(ii) you are aged 21 or over;
(iii) you have held a car (category B) licence for at least 2 years;
(iv) you are providing your service on a voluntary basis; and
(v) the minibus maximum weight is not more than 3.5 tonnes excluding any
specialist equipment for the carriage of disabled passengers.

The "not for hire and reward" requirement in (i) is not going to be met if
there has been any payment made by or on behalf of the passengers travelling
in the vehicle. If a payment has been made, the vehicle needs to display a
permit issued under Section 19 of the 1985 Transport Act (available from the
Traffic Commissioner's Office).

As a practical rule of thumb, I would expect most enforcement officers
(police or VOSA) would work on the principle that a minibus displaying a
S.19 permit is legal and one that doesn't could easily be illegal. In legal
terms, the MiDAS test is irrelevant - since MiDAS is a voluntary scheme
aimed at improving the standard of minibus driving, but with no formal basis
in law.

Ed Bassford