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State of the City - New Voices From: Guy Western Date: Mar 26 17:05 UTC Short link
I always wondered why Chuck Repke seemed to encourage my participation in this
forum, even though he doesn't particularly care for my viewpoint. I've had an
eye on this forum for some time, and my respect for Mr. Repke as a man of
principle has grown steadily.
Aside from that, Bob and Erik have their ongoing discussion about how much they
agree or disagree with each other in Mandelbrotian detail; AHine works various
strategies to start a wave cheer that don't ever quite catch on; and Anne
Carroll periodically posts something with a lot of depth and thoughtful
pertinence which everyone deftly avoids en masse. And there you go.
As someone who's been booted about rather capriciously by the same forum
management that is now attempting to 'gin up participation, I have to say, if
your attitude was half as tolerant as Mr. Repke's, you might not be begging
lurkers to come out of the closet.
Are we "off-topic" yet, Tim?
-----Original Message-----
>From: <email obscured>
>Sent: Mar 26, 2008 11:26 AM
>To: <email obscured>
>Subject: Re: [SPIF] State of the City - New Voices
>
>I'd like to agree and disagree with Tom (in that grey/gray area of this
>discussion).
>
>Having been with this list since almost the beginning and having taken
>absolutely no responsibility for it, my only thought is to destroy a Lincoln
quote
>"you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all
>of the people all of the time," ... or maybe it was Dylan.
>
>In an open forum like this someone's "shooting down someone's ideas," is
>another person's voice of reason.
>
>I have no idea how you get the average person to not personalize a debate,
>TIM...
>
>(See how easy that works, it happens every time we use someone's name...
>think about it once in a while.)
>
>I worry every time we lose someone that someone else considers "hostile"
>because I appreciate the debate.
>
>The only way to not have six people dominate the debate is to have more
>debate.
>
>JMONTOMEPPOF
>
>Chuck Repke
>
>
>In a message dated 3/26/2008 10:34:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
><email obscured> writes:
>
>Tim:
>
>At the risk of possibly entering a grey (gray?) area of what's permissible
>on SPIF, but assuming the rules are slightly relaxed this week, I think the
>perception shared by the mayor's staffer should be embraced, especially since
>you're reporting that "it's something we hear frequently about SPIF." I don't
>think such comments reflect negatively on those folks, like yourself, who
>brought SPIF into existence, maintain it, do the outreach, etc.--everybody
who
>participates in the forum owes a debt of gratitude for those efforts.
>
>But in examining the data about participation, I don't think that citing the
>number of people who participate is really that accurate a stat, because one
>post by someone, even if it's just a brief rejoinder, would count as
>participation. What I think your stats will tell you is that while many
people may
>post from time to time, there is a very short list of folks who post
>frequently, and thus tend to dominate the forum. I don't know if that's good
or bad,
>but I think it's an arguable point as to whether civic dialogue has
increased,
>decreased, or stayed about the same during the years that SPIF has existed.
>
>Again, this is not meant as criticism of electronic list servs, the
>potential value they offer, or the hard work of the volunteers who keep it
all going.
>But my own perspective is that every medium has its limits in usefulness,
>including this one. At times, I've found SPIF to be extraordinarily valuable;
>in fact, I thought enough of SPIF as a public medium that it was the first
>place that I announced my candidacy for the school board in 2005 (and it's
also
>how I "met" several folks who I was able to recruit as volunteers in my
>campaign). Yet, at other times, I've found the comments and churlishness of
some
>people on SPIF to be extremely disheartening. I think some great ideas have
>been put forward on SPIF, and at the same time, I've watched people regularly
>not only trash those ideas but trash the person putting forward the ideas.
So,
>in some ways, SPIF can unwittingly contribute to uncivil dialogue, because I
>doubt very much that some of these extremely negative statements w
>ould ever be offered in a public forum or face-to-face with someone, yet
>it's fair game to do so on this list.
>
>Unfortunately, every medium is limited or enhanced by the personalities and
>characteristics of those who participate, and ultimately the "group" drives
>the dynamics of the forum. So I understand why the public perception of SPIF,
>or even the perception of public officials, might be what it is. I'm not sure
>that any of this matters, because no medium is perfect, but it might explain
>why you're getting the feedback that you do.
>
>Tom Goldstein
>Hamline-Midway
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tim Erickson" <<email obscured>>
>To: "SPIF Forum" <<email obscured>>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 9:11 AM
>Subject: [SPIF] State of the City - New Voices
>
>
>> One comment I heard last night from a staffer at city hall, was that the
>St. Paul Issues Forum is dominated by about six people. He'd like to hear
from
> more people.
>>
>> While, I disputed his perception, its something that we hear frequently
>about SPIF.
>>
>> In fact, so far this month alone 57 DIFFERENT people have posted messages
>in SPIF. In March of 2006, we set a record (for the last 3 years) with 126
>DIFFERENT participants posting messages in SPIF in a single month.
>>
>> We know that the Mayor ("Hi, Mayor Coleman!") and his staff are watching
>the forum particularly close this week. I think it would be great to hear
from
>some of our lurkers, in particular this week. We ought to be able to get a
>least 100 different voices into the forum this month.
>>
>> Here is your chance to comment on the "State of the City."
>>
>> What do you think is going well in St. Paul?
>> What do you think needs improvement?
>> Do you have a St. Paul story to tell, that you think might
>> help illustrate the "State of the City?"
>>
>> To see forum stats (must be logged in):
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-issues/stats.html
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Tim Erickson
>> St. Paul E-Democracy
>Tom Goldstein
>Hamline Midway, Saint Paul
>Info about Tom Goldstein: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/tomgoldstein
>
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>Home.
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>Chuck Repke
>West 7th, Saint Paul
>Info about Chuck Repke: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/chuckrepke
>
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