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barrs - long (sorry) From: Bob Spaulding Date: Apr 05 19:13 UTC Short link
Chuck full of down-to-earth, person-to-person common decency and
common sense. You cut through the personal and petty political games
played by people of every persuasion that are a turn-off for so many
of us. Another reminder of why folks like Dave have taken tough
stands on the issues, and have won the hearts and minds of his
constituents time and time again.
You definitely don't need me to say it, but our thanks, neighbor.
Bob
On Apr 5, 2008, at 10:34 AM, dave thune wrote:
> I've been kind of quiet on this online cuz I have my hands full at
> work,
> but...
>
> Here's the problem. We don't limit bar activities because we like
> "blue
> laws". One unique aspect of St. Paul is that many of our residential
> neighborhoods are dotted with neighborhood bars - bars with peoples
> homes
> next door, beside or behind them.
> The nature of bars and alchohol consumption being what it is, patrons
> eventually go home and when they do they talk loud, they fight, they
> squeal
> tires, and generally are a pain in the ass on their block. And of
> course on
> the darker side, bars also have a tendancy to attract other patrons
> who
> deal drugs in their cars and ocassionaly shoot each other. Yes,
> sometimes
> they puke, too.
>
> We've had them for years. We generally feel that the recreational
> aspect of
> say, Skinners bar or Mancinis are local color and in addition, have
> great
> food. They are also run by owners who put up with no, or little
> misbehavior
> by their patrons. Unfortunately these two are not in the majority
> when it
> comes to good citizenry. If you have the notion that bars should
> have no
> limits and be open til 4 or never close, then you obviously do not
> live
> here, or perhaps in 3 or 4 smaller parts of the city that have no
> bars at
> all.
>
> But even Downtown - not considered by some as a neighborhood - now
> has abour
> 8000 residents. Most of them are fairly near or even above bars and
> nightclubs. They chose downtown living because it is fun, convenient
> and
> unique. They did not choose it because they thought they would
> enjoy bad
> behavior and fighting outside their windows all night. Actually,
> like most
> of you, they'd prefer that intoxicated people not awaken them. In
> most
> cases co-existence is wonderful. But as I said before, the nature of
> bars
> being bars, means that intoxicated patrons eventually leave. 1 or
> 2o'clock
> in the evening is generally felt to be a reasonable time to conclude
> an
> evening. We who live next to or near bars understand and don't mind
> a bit of
> commotion then... but stretch it out til 4 AM and I believe you are
> asking
> for unreasonable tolerance from neighbors.
>
> Most of you who know me know that I have moderated my bar behavior
> over the
> years, but I started playing music in bars when I was 18. I know bars
> inside and out. I've seen fights, stabbings, drug use, wrecked
> marriages and
> regurgitation, but I've also seen great musicians, fun times, good
> food and
> some cheerful silliness. Unfortunately this isn't a a TV sitcom like
> Cheers.
> You get both the good and the bad. Its a tough business to make a
> living in.
> Its hard work to be a good owner/neighbor, refereeing domestic
> disputes and
> picking up litter and hosing down sidewalks the next morning. I
> like bars
> (believe it or not) and I like bars to be on our commercial streets
> and in
> our neighborhoods, but I am no fool and I know that:
>
> 1. The adjacent homeowners and neighbors will hate the 4 AM close
> time.
> 2. There is no way to rule that only a few "select" bars can be open
> til 4.
> You either let them all, or none. The law protects them all equally.
> 3. Limiting 4AM closing to downtown still puts them beside
> residences who
> pay as much taxes as you do and did not purchase a condo on Bourbon
> Street -
> they chose Wabasha, Minnesota or Wall Streets.
> 4. Limiting to downtown is in reality unworkable because you would be
> leaving out the popular Mancinis, O'Gara's and Dixie's bars.
> 5. We've been told that the cost of law enforcement due to extended
> hours is
> upwards to half a million bucks - payable via your property taxes.
> 6. The test of a great city is not how long you can drink alchohol.
> To hear
> a legislator say that we just don't want to be a big city is
> insulting and
> obviously the words of a moron.
>
> I also know that ocassionally I speak frankly and with a bit of
> passion.
> But I am angry that this is being suggested, to cater to a "special"
> group
> of conventioneers who will be judging us predominately by our bar
> hours. I
> am more than a little irritated that cities are being played off
> against
> each other ("we can't be at a competitive disadvantage").
>
> Finally, I may have unfairly sullied the reputation of lobbyists. My
> friend
> Chuck pointed out that lobbyists don't puke, they're professionals
> who have
> experience holding their liquor. Its the amateurs who spew.
> He may be right, but the particular lobbyists we'll have in town
> that week
> are the ones who have initiated this whole discussion.
> And of course these are the lobbyists who brought us an illegal and
> tragic
> war, a recession, polluted water, expensive drugs, and even the
> moralists
> who preach family values but play "outside the box" themselves.
> They are
> enough to make me queasy without a snootful...
>
> Sorry Sandy, I don't apologize.
>
> dave thune
> ward 2
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "M Charles Swope" <<email obscured>>
> To: <<email obscured>>; <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 8:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [SPIF] Keeping bars open longer for the RNC
>
>
>> Minneapolis' city council doesn't agree with Dave
>> Thune on this issue:
>> http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/
>> 17312979.html
>>
>> If later closing hours are a good idea for this
>> convention (which they aren't), why aren't they a good
>> idea for other conventions and for the rest of us the
>> rest of the time?
>>
>> Good old Phylis Kahn, that "cold Omaha" phrase works
>> every time. Do we really have so little confidence in
>> our cities that we believe our bar closing times
>> (which aren't that early after all) are all that
>> separates us from other Midwestern towns?
>>
>> Charles Swope
>> Ramsey Hill, Ward 2, St. Paul
>> Info about Charlie Swope:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/charlesswope
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2hSGaiTJfRXXD3AUqdKbGZ
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>
>
>
> Dave Thune
> Ward 2, St. Paul
> Info about Dave Thune: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/
> thunedave
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/79Pp8ydQKU5vZaKV9ueglg
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>
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