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There are 20 posts — by 10 authors — in this topic.
Latest post made by Tony Joyce at May 22 04:32 UTC

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Stephanie Jenkins	appeal_88_90_windmill_road_tony_joyce.doc	Apr 29 10:56 UTC

From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Feb 14 18:00 UTC Short link

An Inspector appointed by the Secretary of State will hold a Local Inquiry at
the Town Hall on 22 April (starting at 10am), following appeals launched by
Cherwell Housing Trust against the city council's refusal of planning
permission for student accommodation to replace (1) 90 Windmill Road/1A Mattock
Close and (2) 88 Windmill Road.

These are the two large Victorian houses formerly owned by the Mattock family,
one on each side of Mattock Close, with 1A Mattock Close situated in 90
Windmill Road’s garden.

Interested members of the public are invited to attend the Inquiry and, with
the agreement of the Inspector, will be allowed to give their views. For a
Guide to taking part in planning appeals, see:
http://www.planning-inspectorate.gov.uk/pins/appeals/planning_appeals/making_planning_appeal.htm#take

To view the detailed plans, go to
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
and search for the two reference numbers given below:

90 Windmill Road/1A Mattock Close application for 26 student rooms in two
blocks:
07/00074/REFUSE

88 Windmill Road application for 23 student rooms in two blocksL:
07/00077/REFUSE

From: Mike OK Date: Feb 18 13:15 UTC Short link

Hi Stephanie,

So what's happening here? Brookes want more student accommodation but OCC
refused, now Cherwell housing trust is disputing it and the sec of state is
involved?

Sorry havn't really been keeping track of it, but I'm concerned about yet more
student accommodation.

Could you summarise?

From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Feb 18 14:48 UTC Short link

Cherwell Housing Trust wants to knock down 88 and 90 Windmill Road (and 1A
Mattock Close in the garden) and replace them with 49 student rooms in two
blocks. Brookes is very likely to snap up this accommodation once it is built.

If you don’t know these two Victorian houses, you can see pictures of them
here:
http://www.headington.org.uk/history/famous_people/mattock.htm

On 19 June 2007 our Area Committee bravely went against the recommendations of
planning officers and turned down the two relevant applications.  Then on 25
July 2007 the matter went before the City Council’s Strategic Development
Control Committee, which again rejected the two applications with a resounding
9 to 1 vote against.

The Oxford Mail at the time reported that a spokesmen for the developers
complained:

"Our proposal met all the council's planning requirements and had been
recommended for approval by its planning officer. The decision is all the more
perplexing as the scheme would have assisted with the council's policy to
provide purpose-built student accommodation to help alleviate the pressure on
family housing in the city."

As often happens when the city council stands up for the views of local
residents, the developers have now appealed to the Secretary of State against
this decision, and that is why there has to be an Inquiry.

All representations sent in by local residents against the original plans will
be forwarded to the Planning Inspector.  (Until recently you had  to send your
views in a second time, but not any more.)  But if you have not already
written, you can still go and speak at the Inquiry.

From: David Rundle Date: Feb 19 09:32 UTC Short link

Mike,

That's an accurate summary. Cherwell wanted to build student accommodation,
for Brookes which uses the present buildings. Application rejected, now gone
to appeal which will be heard in the Town Hall.

From: Marie Vickers Date: Feb 19 20:22 UTC Short link

I read the history of the Mattock family with
interest.  It brought back memories which I had
completely forgotten.

Firstly, the reason why a school on Margaret Road was
called Windmill School.  I cannot remember what the
school was called when my son first went there.
However, shortly afterwards parents were informed that
that the school would be relocated to a site on
Windmill Road that had been purchased for the purpose
by the Council.  In anticipation of this the name was
changed.  My understanding is that at the time of
local government reorganisation in 1974 all City owned
schools were transferred to Oxfordshire County
Council.  This authority decided that it would cost
too much to build a new school on the Windmill Road
site.  Houses were built on the land - thus creating
Mattocks Close.  The school was refurbished and
retained the name of Windmill School.

Secondly, at some stage in this process 88 and 90
Windmill Road were acquired by the then Oxford
Polytechnic and let to students as houses in multiple
occupation.  The use of these two houses and other
street properties continued as HMOs when the Poly
became Oxford Brookes University and a small Brookes
Housing Association was established to manage them.
My memory is that over time local residents, various
City Council departments, health practitioners and
students themselves became dissatisfied with the
quality of HMO accommodation offered to them when
purpose-built accommodation was available to other
students.  Oxford Brookes decided to negotiate a
transfer of their HMO properties to a well established
housing association who were in the process of
developing purpose-built student housing off Southmoor
Road.  The understanding was, I think, that eventually
the HMO street properties would be sold and
purpose-built student housing provided on suitable
sites.  In this way, individual properties occupied as
HMOs would return to family housing and
self-contained, purpose-built student accommodation be
provided for students at Brookes University.

I had the impression that residents of Headington and
Marston were opposed to students living in HMOs.  I am
therefore interested that a proposal to convert 88 and
90 Windmill Road and 1A Mattock Close from HMO use to
purpose-built student housing is being opposed.

I'd like to know more about the reasons given for
refusing the application.  Is it being proposed that
the properties be retained as HMOs?  Is this suitable
accommodation for students?

Marie Vickers

--- Stephanie Jenkins <<email obscured>>
wrote:

> Cherwell Housing Trust wants to knock down 88 and 90
> Windmill Road (and 1A Mattock Close in the garden)
> and replace them with 49 student rooms in two
> blocks. Brookes is very likely to snap up this
> accommodation once it is built.
>
> If you donât know these two Victorian houses, you
> can see pictures of them here:
>
http://www.headington.org.uk/history/famous_people/mattock.htm
>
> On 19 June 2007 our Area Committee bravely went
> against the recommendations of planning officers and
> turned down the two relevant applications.  Then on
> 25 July 2007 the matter went before the City
> Councilâs Strategic Development Control Committee,
> which again rejected the two applications with a
> resounding 9 to 1 vote against.
>
> The Oxford Mail at the time reported that a
> spokesmen for the developers complained:
>
> "Our proposal met all the council's planning
> requirements and had been recommended for approval
> by its planning officer. The decision is all the
> more perplexing as the scheme would have assisted
> with the council's policy to provide purpose-built
> student accommodation to help alleviate the pressure
> on family housing in the city."
>
> As often happens when the city council stands up for
> the views of local residents, the developers have
> now appealed to the Secretary of State against this
> decision, and that is why there has to be an
> Inquiry.
>
> All representations sent in by local residents
> against the original plans will be forwarded to the
> Planning Inspector.  (Until recently you had  to
> send your views in a second time, but not any more.)
>  But if you have not already written, you can still
> go and speak at the Inquiry.
>
> Stephanie Jenkins
> Headington, Oxford
> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7gLB7nz7Jg6CzwTVLR2ADJ
> -----------------------------------------
>   To post, send your message to:
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From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Feb 20 08:18 UTC Short link

Marie: I don’t have the energy to summarize the city council’s appeal
statement, as it is ten pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would also
have to summarize the appellant’s statement (six pages).  In any case,
summarizing legal documents is risky.

All the information you need is on the city council planning website:
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm

Given the length of the planning database URLs, I have created “Tiny URLs” to
lead you straight to the following:

(1) Appeal statement of Council:
http://tiny.cc/0mxgG

(2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell Housing Trust):
http://tiny.cc/W3wg2

If you go into the planning database, you can also read the letters of
objection by local residents when the plans were submitted.

As for your point about purpose-built student accommodation, if two houses each
containing a small group of students are replaced by two blocks for 49
students, I don’t think that it will reduce the number of HMOs (houses in
multi-occupation) in Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number is likely
to increase, as students will like living near these blocks if their facilities
are good (with rooms big enough for parties) and they have friends there.   And
Windmill Road will always remain a very desirable area for students because of
the bus services and shops.

Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from residents’ housing, as many
students have a tendency to turn night into day, especially when removed from a
household situation.  These blocks will stand sentinel each side of the
entrance to Mattock’s Close where there are many elderly people and young
children.

From: Marie Vickers Date: Feb 20 11:18 UTC Short link

Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council and
Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
planning application papers included on the
NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In addition to
this, I have today read all the comments submitted by
local residents.

The final one of these was submitted on behalf of the
Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing need
for accommodation for post graduate students and
wonder whether the many objections about  over
development of the site for a potentially unruly group
of young students could be overcome if there was a
stipulation that the properties be developed with
larger space standards for mature students, possibly
with children?

Marie Vickers

--- Stephanie Jenkins <<email obscured>>
wrote:

> Marie: I donât have the energy to summarize the
> city councilâs appeal statement, as it is ten
> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
> also have to summarize the appellantâs statement
> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
> documents is risky.
>
> All the information you need is on the city council
> planning website:
>
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
>
> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
> have created âTiny URLsâ to lead you straight to
> the following:
>
> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
>
> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell Housing
> Trust):
> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
>
> If you go into the planning database, you can also
> read the letters of objection by local residents
> when the plans were submitted.
>
> As for your point about purpose-built student
> accommodation, if two houses each containing a small
> group of students are replaced by two blocks for 49
> students, I donât think that it will reduce the
> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number is
> likely to increase, as students will like living
> near these blocks if their facilities are good (with
> rooms big enough for parties) and they have friends
> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a very
> desirable area for students because of the bus
> services and shops.
>
> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
> residentsâ housing, as many students have a
> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
> Mattockâs Close where there are many elderly
> people and young children.
>
> Stephanie Jenkins
> Headington, Oxford
> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5WajhoeQDeBS9wAsNlAYCe
> -----------------------------------------
>   To post, send your message to:
> <email obscured>
>   To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe"
> or "digest on,"
>   in subject line and send to:
> <email obscured>
>
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> Neighbourhood Forum:
>   http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm
>
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> -----------------------------------------
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>






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From: Jock Coats Date: Feb 20 11:29 UTC Short link

It would be just the right size for a pilot Community Land Trust led
Student Housing Co-operative...:)

That way the local community could help set the rules by which the co-
operative would operate and even perhaps have a say in who they
accommodated.  Hmmm.  Interesting...:)

Jock
(Chair, Oxfordshire Community Land Trusts - still looking for a site!)


On 20 Feb 2008, at 11:05, marie vickers wrote:

> Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council and
> Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
> planning application papers included on the
> NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In addition to
> this, I have today read all the comments submitted by
> local residents.
>
> The final one of these was submitted on behalf of the
> Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
> Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing need
> for accommodation for post graduate students and
> wonder whether the many objections about  over
> development of the site for a potentially unruly group
> of young students could be overcome if there was a
> stipulation that the properties be developed with
> larger space standards for mature students, possibly
> with children?
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> --- Stephanie Jenkins <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>> Marie: I donât have the energy to summarize the
>> city councilâs appeal statement, as it is ten
>> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
>> also have to summarize the appellantâs statement
>> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
>> documents is risky.
>>
>> All the information you need is on the city council
>> planning website:
>>
> http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
>>
>> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
>> have created âTiny URLsâ to lead you straight to
>> the following:
>>
>> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
>> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
>>
>> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell Housing
>> Trust):
>> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
>>
>> If you go into the planning database, you can also
>> read the letters of objection by local residents
>> when the plans were submitted.
>>
>> As for your point about purpose-built student
>> accommodation, if two houses each containing a small
>> group of students are replaced by two blocks for 49
>> students, I donât think that it will reduce the
>> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
>> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number is
>> likely to increase, as students will like living
>> near these blocks if their facilities are good (with
>> rooms big enough for parties) and they have friends
>> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a very
>> desirable area for students because of the bus
>> services and shops.
>>
>> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
>> residentsâ housing, as many students have a
>> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
>> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
>> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
>> Mattockâs Close where there are many elderly
>> people and young children.
>>
>> Stephanie Jenkins
>> Headington, Oxford
>> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5WajhoeQDeBS9wAsNlAYCe
>> -----------------------------------------
>>   To post, send your message to:
>> <email obscured>
>>   To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe"
>> or "digest on,"
>>   in subject line and send to:
>> <email obscured>
>>
>>   More info about Headington & Marston
>> Neighbourhood Forum:
>>   http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm
>>
>>   E-Democracy.Org rules:
>> http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at
>> http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the
> answer. Try it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
>
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> Info about Marie Vickers: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/
> marievickers
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-
> democracy.org/r/topic/5d9v02LBOsqxxtUt2Vu9ya
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--
Jock Coats
Warden's Flat 1e, J Block Morrell Hall, OXFORD, OX3 0FF
local rate: 084 JOCKOXFD (56256933) skype:jock.coats?call
<email obscured> http://jockcoats.org.uk

From: Mary Hope Date: Feb 20 19:53 UTC Short link

Marie has a good point.  If the facilities catered for mature students -
perhaps with families - it would increase the  age range of the residents of
the blocks. And there would be less danger of noisy parties disturbing the
residents of Mattock Close.

It's also worth pointing out there will soon be a  quiet garden at the other
end of Mattock Close when the former recreation ground is  joined up with
the  NOC site.( opening very soon  when all the  work at the NOC is
completed) .  This will be a useful additional green space for local
residents to enjoy in the daytime. The NOC will be locking it at
dusk..Although it will include a cycle path there will be space there for
families to take their children.

Mary Hope

----- Original Message -----
From: "marie vickers" <<email obscured>>
To: "Stephanie Jenkins" <<email obscured>>; "Headington & Marston
Neighbourhood Forum" <<email obscured>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal date set


> Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council and
> Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
> planning application papers included on the
> NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In addition to
> this, I have today read all the comments submitted by
> local residents.
>
> The final one of these was submitted on behalf of the
> Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
> Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing need
> for accommodation for post graduate students and
> wonder whether the many objections about  over
> development of the site for a potentially unruly group
> of young students could be overcome if there was a
> stipulation that the properties be developed with
> larger space standards for mature students, possibly
> with children?
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> --- Stephanie Jenkins <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>> Marie: I donât have the energy to summarize the
>> city councilâs appeal statement, as it is ten
>> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
>> also have to summarize the appellantâs statement
>> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
>> documents is risky.
>>
>> All the information you need is on the city council
>> planning website:
>>
> http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
>>
>> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
>> have created âTiny URLsâ to lead you straight to
>> the following:
>>
>> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
>> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
>>
>> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell Housing
>> Trust):
>> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
>>
>> If you go into the planning database, you can also
>> read the letters of objection by local residents
>> when the plans were submitted.
>>
>> As for your point about purpose-built student
>> accommodation, if two houses each containing a small
>> group of students are replaced by two blocks for 49
>> students, I donât think that it will reduce the
>> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
>> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number is
>> likely to increase, as students will like living
>> near these blocks if their facilities are good (with
>> rooms big enough for parties) and they have friends
>> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a very
>> desirable area for students because of the bus
>> services and shops.
>>
>> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
>> residentsâ housing, as many students have a
>> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
>> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
>> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
>> Mattockâs Close where there are many elderly
>> people and young children.
>>
>> Stephanie Jenkins
>> Headington, Oxford
>> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5WajhoeQDeBS9wAsNlAYCe
>> -----------------------------------------
>>   To post, send your message to:
>> <email obscured>
>>   To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe"
>> or "digest on,"
>>   in subject line and send to:
>> <email obscured>
>>
>>   More info about Headington & Marston
>> Neighbourhood Forum:
>>   http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm
>>
>>   E-Democracy.Org rules:
>> http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at
>> http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> it
> now.
> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/
>
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> Info about Marie Vickers:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/marievickers
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5d9v02LBOsqxxtUt2Vu9ya
> -----------------------------------------
>  To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>  To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
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> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>

From: Heather Armitage Date: Feb 20 21:19 UTC Short link

As far as I'm concerned, the point is that I do not want 2 attractive Edwardian
houses which have an important role in local history, to be knocked down and
replaced by faceless student blocks - blocks which are large enough to dominate
the surrounding houses. This is particularly important on a major road through
Headington - which many of us use several times a day.

I come from Meanwood which was a small village outside Leeds.  All the local
stone vernacular housing which had survived from the 18th/19th century to the
1960s and 70s has now been demolished. Yet as quarrying was, along with
tanning, the principal local employment, so the houses really were built from
'local stone'.  We liked them - but they were not rare or 'special' - and had
no protection. Only the church survives today.

The educated folks who lived across the beck in Headingly saved theirs - it's
now a conservation area.  We need to cherish our vernacular housing - just as
now they cherish slag heaps in Wales.

I gave a talk to some Brookes students toady.  I asked how many 'live out'.
About 50%.   I asked if this is from choice - it is.  You can keep building
'student accommodation' but it doesn't mean the students want to live in it.
Anyway, an added bonus for them is that when they 'live out' they are not
restricted as to owning cars.

Heather Armitage

Please use my new email address to reply
<email obscured>
thank you


-----Original Message-----
From: mary hope [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: 20 February 2008 19:34
To: marie vickers; Stephanie Jenkins; Headington & Marston Neighbourhood Forum
Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal date set

Marie has a good point.  If the facilities catered for mature students -
perhaps with families - it would increase the  age range of the residents of
the blocks. And there would be less danger of noisy parties disturbing the
residents of Mattock Close.

It's also worth pointing out there will soon be a  quiet garden at the other
end of Mattock Close when the former recreation ground is  joined up with
the  NOC site.( opening very soon  when all the  work at the NOC is
completed) .  This will be a useful additional green space for local
residents to enjoy in the daytime. The NOC will be locking it at
dusk..Although it will include a cycle path there will be space there for
families to take their children.

Mary Hope
----- Original Message -----
From: "marie vickers" <<email obscured>>
To: "Stephanie Jenkins" <<email obscured>>; "Headington & Marston
Neighbourhood Forum" <<email obscured>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal date set


> Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council and
> Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
> planning application papers included on the
> NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In addition to
> this, I have today read all the comments submitted by
> local residents.
>
> The final one of these was submitted on behalf of the
> Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
> Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing need
> for accommodation for post graduate students and
> wonder whether the many objections about  over
> development of the site for a potentially unruly group
> of young students could be overcome if there was a
> stipulation that the properties be developed with
> larger space standards for mature students, possibly
> with children?
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> --- Stephanie Jenkins <<email obscured>>
> wrote:
>
>> Marie: I donâ€™t have the energy to summarize the
>> city councilâ€™s appeal statement, as it is ten
>> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
>> also have to summarize the appellantâ€™s statement
>> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
>> documents is risky.
>>
>> All the information you need is on the city council
>> planning website:
>>
> http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
>>
>> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
>> have created â€œTiny URLsâ€ to lead you straight to
>> the following:
>>
>> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
>> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
>>
>> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell Housing
>> Trust):
>> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
>>
>> If you go into the planning database, you can also
>> read the letters of objection by local residents
>> when the plans were submitted.
>>
>> As for your point about purpose-built student
>> accommodation, if two houses each containing a small
>> group of students are replaced by two blocks for 49
>> students, I donâ€™t think that it will reduce the
>> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
>> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number is
>> likely to increase, as students will like living
>> near these blocks if their facilities are good (with
>> rooms big enough for parties) and they have friends
>> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a very
>> desirable area for students because of the bus
>> services and shops.
>>
>> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
>> residentsâ€™ housing, as many students have a
>> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
>> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
>> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
>> Mattockâ€™s Close where there are many elderly
>> people and young children.
>>
>> Stephanie Jenkins
>> Headington, Oxford
>> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5WajhoeQDeBS9wAsNlAYCe
>> -----------------------------------------
>>   To post, send your message to:
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>>   in subject line and send to:
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>> Neighbourhood Forum:
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>>
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>> http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>      ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try
> it
> now.
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>
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> Info about Marie Vickers:
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>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
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Mary Hope

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20:00

From: Marie Vickers Date: Feb 20 22:15 UTC Short link

I have a particular interest in Leeds University.  My
son, who attended Windmill School - with the
expectation that it would be relocated to the site
that is now called Mattock Close - was subsequently a
student at Leeds University.  I am amazed to hear that
Headingly is now a conservation area.  When he lived
in HMOs there I was often terrified for his life!  I
was working in public health at the time with a
particular remit for housing and health.  I would be
interested to know what provision Leeds University has
now made to accommodate students. I am glad to hear
that properties in Headingly which in my assessment
(using Institution of Environmental Health Criteria)
were unfit for human habitation in the 1980s/early 90s
have now been renovated and are occupied by local
families.  Both Oxford Universities would have much to
learn from this example of good practice.

I am sad to hear that current Brookes students prefer
to own a car than to live in purpose built
accommodation.

Marie Vickers


--- Heather <<email obscured>> wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned, the point is that I do not
> want 2 attractive Edwardian houses which have an
> important role in local history, to be knocked down
> and replaced by faceless student blocks - blocks
> which are large enough to dominate the surrounding
> houses. This is particularly important on a major
> road through Headington - which many of us use
> several times a day.
>
> I come from Meanwood which was a small village
> outside Leeds.  All the local stone vernacular
> housing which had survived from the 18th/19th
> century to the 1960s and 70s has now been
> demolished. Yet as quarrying was, along with
> tanning, the principal local employment, so the
> houses really were built from 'local stone'.  We
> liked them - but they were not rare or 'special' -
> and had no protection. Only the church survives
> today.
>
> The educated folks who lived across the beck in
> Headingly saved theirs - it's now a conservation
> area.  We need to cherish our vernacular housing -
> just as now they cherish slag heaps in Wales.
>
> I gave a talk to some Brookes students toady.  I
> asked how many 'live out'.  About 50%.   I asked if
> this is from choice - it is.  You can keep building
> 'student accommodation' but it doesn't mean the
> students want to live in it. Anyway, an added bonus
> for them is that when they 'live out' they are not
> restricted as to owning cars.
>
> Heather Armitage
>
> Please use my new email address to reply
> <email obscured>
> thank you
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mary hope [mailto:<email obscured>]
> Sent: 20 February 2008 19:34
> To: marie vickers; Stephanie Jenkins; Headington &
> Marston Neighbourhood Forum
> Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal
> date set
>
> Marie has a good point.  If the facilities catered
> for mature students -
> perhaps with families - it would increase the  age
> range of the residents of
> the blocks. And there would be less danger of noisy
> parties disturbing the
> residents of Mattock Close.
>
> It's also worth pointing out there will soon be a
> quiet garden at the other
> end of Mattock Close when the former recreation
> ground is  joined up with
> the  NOC site.( opening very soon  when all the
> work at the NOC is
> completed) .  This will be a useful additional green
> space for local
> residents to enjoy in the daytime. The NOC will be
> locking it at
> dusk..Although it will include a cycle path there
> will be space there for
> families to take their children.
>
> Mary Hope
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marie vickers" <<email obscured>>
> To: "Stephanie Jenkins"
> <<email obscured>>; "Headington & Marston
>
> Neighbourhood Forum"
> <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal
> date set
>
>
> > Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council
> and
> > Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
> > planning application papers included on the
> > NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In
> addition to
> > this, I have today read all the comments submitted
> by
> > local residents.
> >
> > The final one of these was submitted on behalf of
> the
> > Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
> > Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing
> need
> > for accommodation for post graduate students and
> > wonder whether the many objections about  over
> > development of the site for a potentially unruly
> group
> > of young students could be overcome if there was a
> > stipulation that the properties be developed with
> > larger space standards for mature students,
> possibly
> > with children?
> >
> > Marie Vickers
> >
> > --- Stephanie Jenkins
> <<email obscured>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Marie: I donÃ¢â¬â¢t have the energy to
> summarize the
> >> city councilÃ¢â¬â¢s appeal statement, as it is
> ten
> >> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
> >> also have to summarize the appellantÃ¢â¬â¢s
> statement
> >> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
> >> documents is risky.
> >>
> >> All the information you need is on the city
> council
> >> planning website:
> >>
> >
>
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
> >>
> >> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
> >> have created Ã¢â¬ÅTiny URLsÃ¢â¬Â to lead you
> straight to
> >> the following:
> >>
> >> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
> >> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
> >>
> >> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell
> Housing
> >> Trust):
> >> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
> >>
> >> If you go into the planning database, you can
> also
> >> read the letters of objection by local residents
> >> when the plans were submitted.
> >>
> >> As for your point about purpose-built student
> >> accommodation, if two houses each containing a
> small
> >> group of students are replaced by two blocks for
> 49
> >> students, I donÃ¢â¬â¢t think that it will
> reduce the
> >> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
> >> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number
> is
> >> likely to increase, as students will like living
> >> near these blocks if their facilities are good
> (with
> >> rooms big enough for parties) and they have
> friends
> >> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a
> very
> >> desirable area for students because of the bus
> >> services and shops.
> >>
> >> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
> >> residentsÃ¢â¬â¢ housing, as many students have
> a
> >> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
> >> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
> >> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
> >> MattockÃ¢â¬â¢s Close where there are many
> elderly
> >> people and young children.
> >>
> >> Stephanie Jenkins
> >> Headington, Oxford
> >> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
> >>
> >
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
> >>
> >> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> >>
> >
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5WajhoeQDeBS9wAsNlAYCe
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >>   To post, send your message to:
> >> <email obscured>
> >>   To leave or for daily digest, type
> "unsubscribe"
> >> or "digest on,"
> >>   in subject line and send to:
> >> <email obscured>
> >>
> >>   More info about Headington & Marston
> >> Neighbourhood Forum:
>
=== message truncated ===



      ___________________________________________________________
Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! For Good
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From: Tony Joyce Date: Feb 20 22:58 UTC Short link

I do not think we shall ever get a fully satisfactory settlement of student
accommodation/HMO problems until we establish a level playing field
throughout the city that each unit of accommodation qualifies for a maximum
of two residents' parking permits and in some developments less, as is
already the case in some parts.
Tony Joyce


On 20/2/08 22:11, "marie vickers" <<email obscured>> wrote:

> I have a particular interest in Leeds University.  My
> son, who attended Windmill School - with the
> expectation that it would be relocated to the site
> that is now called Mattock Close - was subsequently a
> student at Leeds University.  I am amazed to hear that
> Headingly is now a conservation area.  When he lived
> in HMOs there I was often terrified for his life!  I
> was working in public health at the time with a
> particular remit for housing and health.  I would be
> interested to know what provision Leeds University has
> now made to accommodate students. I am glad to hear
> that properties in Headingly which in my assessment
> (using Institution of Environmental Health Criteria)
> were unfit for human habitation in the 1980s/early 90s
> have now been renovated and are occupied by local
> families.  Both Oxford Universities would have much to
> learn from this example of good practice.
>
> I am sad to hear that current Brookes students prefer
> to own a car than to live in purpose built
> accommodation.
>
> Marie Vickers
>
>
> --- Heather <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> As far as I'm concerned, the point is that I do not
>> want 2 attractive Edwardian houses which have an
>> important role in local history, to be knocked down
>> and replaced by faceless student blocks - blocks
>> which are large enough to dominate the surrounding
>> houses. This is particularly important on a major
>> road through Headington - which many of us use
>> several times a day.
>>
>> I come from Meanwood which was a small village
>> outside Leeds.  All the local stone vernacular
>> housing which had survived from the 18th/19th
>> century to the 1960s and 70s has now been
>> demolished. Yet as quarrying was, along with
>> tanning, the principal local employment, so the
>> houses really were built from 'local stone'.  We
>> liked them - but they were not rare or 'special' -
>> and had no protection. Only the church survives
>> today.
>>
>> The educated folks who lived across the beck in
>> Headingly saved theirs - it's now a conservation
>> area.  We need to cherish our vernacular housing -
>> just as now they cherish slag heaps in Wales.
>>
>> I gave a talk to some Brookes students toady.  I
>> asked how many 'live out'.  About 50%.   I asked if
>> this is from choice - it is.  You can keep building
>> 'student accommodation' but it doesn't mean the
>> students want to live in it. Anyway, an added bonus
>> for them is that when they 'live out' they are not
>> restricted as to owning cars.
>>
>> Heather Armitage
>>
>> Please use my new email address to reply
>> <email obscured>
>> thank you
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mary hope [mailto:<email obscured>]
>> Sent: 20 February 2008 19:34
>> To: marie vickers; Stephanie Jenkins; Headington &
>> Marston Neighbourhood Forum
>> Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal
>> date set
>>
>> Marie has a good point.  If the facilities catered
>> for mature students -
>> perhaps with families - it would increase the  age
>> range of the residents of
>> the blocks. And there would be less danger of noisy
>> parties disturbing the
>> residents of Mattock Close.
>>
>> It's also worth pointing out there will soon be a
>> quiet garden at the other
>> end of Mattock Close when the former recreation
>> ground is  joined up with
>> the  NOC site.( opening very soon  when all the
>> work at the NOC is
>> completed) .  This will be a useful additional green
>> space for local
>> residents to enjoy in the daytime. The NOC will be
>> locking it at
>> dusk..Although it will include a cycle path there
>> will be space there for
>> families to take their children.
>>
>> Mary Hope
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "marie vickers" <<email obscured>>
>> To: "Stephanie Jenkins"
>> <<email obscured>>; "Headington & Marston
>>
>> Neighbourhood Forum"
>> <<email obscured>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal
>> date set
>>
>>
>>> Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council
>> and
>>> Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
>>> planning application papers included on the
>>> NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In
>> addition to
>>> this, I have today read all the comments submitted
>> by
>>> local residents.
>>>
>>> The final one of these was submitted on behalf of
>> the
>>> Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
>>> Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing
>> need
>>> for accommodation for post graduate students and
>>> wonder whether the many objections about  over
>>> development of the site for a potentially unruly
>> group
>>> of young students could be overcome if there was a
>>> stipulation that the properties be developed with
>>> larger space standards for mature students,
>> possibly
>>> with children?
>>>
>>> Marie Vickers
>>>
>>> --- Stephanie Jenkins
>> <<email obscured>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marie: I donÃ¢â¬â¢t have the energy to
>> summarize the
>>>> city councilÃ¢â¬â¢s appeal statement, as it is
>> ten
>>>> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
>>>> also have to summarize the appellantÃ¢â¬â¢s
>> statement
>>>> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
>>>> documents is risky.
>>>>
>>>> All the information you need is on the city
>> council
>>>> planning website:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
>>>>
>>>> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
>>>> have created Ã¢â¬ÅTiny URLsÃ¢â¬Â to lead you
>> straight to
>>>> the following:
>>>>
>>>> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
>>>> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
>>>>
>>>> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell
>> Housing
>>>> Trust):
>>>> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
>>>>
>>>> If you go into the planning database, you can
>> also
>>>> read the letters of objection by local residents
>>>> when the plans were submitted.
>>>>
>>>> As for your point about purpose-built student
>>>> accommodation, if two houses each containing a
>> small
>>>> group of students are replaced by two blocks for
>> 49
>>>> students, I donÃ¢â¬â¢t think that it will
>> reduce the
>>>> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
>>>> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number
>> is
>>>> likely to increase, as students will like living
>>>> near these blocks if their facilities are good
>> (with
>>>> rooms big enough for parties) and they have
>> friends
>>>> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a
>> very
>>>> desirable area for students because of the bus
>>>> services and shops.
>>>>
>>>> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
>>>> residentsÃ¢â¬â¢ housing, as many students have
>> a
>>>> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
>>>> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
>>>> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
>>>> MattockÃ¢â¬â¢s Close where there are many
>> elderly
>>>> people and young children.
>>>>
>>>> Stephanie Jenkins
>>>> Headington, Oxford
>>>> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>>>>
>>>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5WajhoeQDeBS9wAsNlAYCe
>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>>   To post, send your message to:
>>>> <email obscured>
>>>>   To leave or for daily digest, type
>> "unsubscribe"
>>>> or "digest on,"
>>>>   in subject line and send to:
>>>> <email obscured>
>>>>
>>>>   More info about Headington & Marston
>>>> Neighbourhood Forum:
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>       ___________________________________________________________
> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! For Good
> http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/
>
>
> Marie Vickers
>
> Info about Marie Vickers: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/marievickers
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4VpL3R0uukWhvDFNirHtq5
> -----------------------------------------
>   To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>   To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>   in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
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>   http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm
>
>   E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net

From: Jock Coats Date: Feb 21 00:14 UTC Short link

Heather,

I respect your point about losing two Edwardian vernacular houses in
this case, but, and I don't know what type/year of group you were
speaking to, what they told you today simply doesn't reflect the
reality of what's on offer to them if they say most live out from
choice.

Most do not have a choice after their first year and most of the
first year live in halls.  Purpose built accommodation (by which I
assume you mean owned by or operated for Brookes rather than the new
breed of private landlord who has been building "purpose built"
infill stuff on Cowley Road in the main) can only accommodate a small
number of later year students.

One issue is that the hall Brookes has set aside for marketing to
continuing students who want halls accommodation is the one on
Holloway - Crescent Hall - precisely because we felt it was better to
have first years on sites closer to main campus while they find their
way around the city.  But of course once they've discovered the city
Crescent can seem way too far away compared with a private let on
Divinity or Windmill Road!

But all our inner city halls are fully subscribed, as is the so far
only one purpose designed (by Cherwell or whatever they are now
called) for continuing students in Southfield Road.  The university
is also still committed under the local plan to build or procure
purpose built halls to increase the number of continuing students
living in halls and all the marketing and surveys done suggest that
students would in fact prefer to live in well managed, university
guaranteed purpose built housing for as long as they could if it were
in the right place.

There is a lot of discussion, in universities and national student
housing providers in general not just at Brookes, about just how to
build halls aimed at continuing students who may, for example, want
to put together a household with friends and share more facilities
than first years plonked in whatever flat they get allocated.  Future
halls built by or for Brookes may well be meeting this different type
of market and reflect that in their design so as to be attractive to
people who want to form such households.

Halls of residence are very big business at the moment, and the
commercial providers are so convinced of their attractiveness that
they are prepared to pay stupid amounts for land (e.g the TA site) as
they are able to charge even more stupid amounts of rent (up to, I'm
told, £7,000 a room for a full year's worth).  These are multi-
billion pound businesses and they continue to make lots of money and
are expanding just as fast as they can get their hands on land.
Rather proof of the demand I'd say!

As to car ownership, the vast majority of students do not own a car -
it is not remotely affordable when the majority of your income goes
on a flea pit of a rented room.  And in the last survey of first
years in my hall the overwhelming response was that they did not need
or wish to bring a car to Oxford even once they were living out.
Nevertheless, I do sometimes wonder what right "we" think "we" have
to say "they" cannot or should not bring a car to Oxford.  We are one
city, built on a heritage of education based residents, we don't want
to be divided between students and the rest, do we?  We have very
large numbers remain in Oxford contributing to our economy long after
they leave, at least at Brookes.

In halls parking is a different matter entirely; the densities
involved would make it impossible to allow cars.  In fact when it was
easier to cheat the rules and the impression was that lots of halls
based students had cars we only ever really got up to about three per
cent of them we estimated.  Most of the cars in Oxford I suspect are
unnecessary on the same basis as we tell students it is not necessary
to have a car here.  Students are away from home, and let's face it
Oxford is not the easiest place to make a quick getaway out of by
public transport unless you're heading for London.  Those of us who
are here more or less permanently have less need of our cars than
students who are away from their main residence I'd say!  We have to,
as Tony Joyce said, find a different way of discouraging everyone
equally from cars if that's what we want, not making a special case
of students.

Marie,

Leeds University and Polytechnic as was were very quick off the mark
with student housing.  Long ago now (at least 12 years ago as I was
part of a project when I first came to Brookes in 1996 to develop
something similar that never really took off) they started a joint
organization - called UNIPOL - vetting and letting both halls and
live-out property for private landlords and it came to a point where
very few students felt the need to let from anyone other than those
vetted landlords and properties (and landlords outside the scheme
started to find property hard to let).  I suspect that level of
control of their market (and in a city with far fewer problems of
capacity of course - at least until half the civil service was moved
there!) has helped enormously.

Regards,

Jock

On 20 Feb 2008, at 21:19, Heather wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned, the point is that I do not want 2
> attractive Edwardian houses which have an important role in local
> history, to be knocked down and replaced by faceless student blocks
> - blocks which are large enough to dominate the surrounding houses.
> This is particularly important on a major road through Headington -
> which many of us use several times a day.
>
> I come from Meanwood which was a small village outside Leeds.  All
> the local stone vernacular housing which had survived from the 18th/
> 19th century to the 1960s and 70s has now been demolished. Yet as
> quarrying was, along with tanning, the principal local employment,
> so the houses really were built from 'local stone'.  We liked them
> - but they were not rare or 'special' - and had no protection. Only
> the church survives today.
>
> The educated folks who lived across the beck in Headingly saved
> theirs - it's now a conservation area.  We need to cherish our
> vernacular housing - just as now they cherish slag heaps in Wales.
>
> I gave a talk to some Brookes students toady.  I asked how many
> 'live out'.  About 50%.   I asked if this is from choice - it is.
> You can keep building 'student accommodation' but it doesn't mean
> the students want to live in it. Anyway, an added bonus for them is
> that when they 'live out' they are not restricted as to owning cars.
>
> Heather Armitage
>
> Please use my new email address to reply
> <email obscured>
> thank you
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mary hope [mailto:<email obscured>]
> Sent: 20 February 2008 19:34
> To: marie vickers; Stephanie Jenkins; Headington & Marston
> Neighbourhood Forum
> Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal date set
>
> Marie has a good point.  If the facilities catered for mature
> students -
> perhaps with families - it would increase the  age range of the
> residents of
> the blocks. And there would be less danger of noisy parties
> disturbing the
> residents of Mattock Close.
>
> It's also worth pointing out there will soon be a  quiet garden at
> the other
> end of Mattock Close when the former recreation ground is  joined
> up with
> the  NOC site.( opening very soon  when all the  work at the NOC is
> completed) .  This will be a useful additional green space for local
> residents to enjoy in the daytime. The NOC will be locking it at
> dusk..Although it will include a cycle path there will be space
> there for
> families to take their children.
>
> Mary Hope
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marie vickers" <<email obscured>>
> To: "Stephanie Jenkins" <<email obscured>>; "Headington
> & Marston
> Neighbourhood Forum" <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [HMNF] 88 & 90 Windmill Road: Appeal date set
>
>
>> Thank you Stephanie.  I have read the City Council and
>> Appellant statements.  I have also looked at the
>> planning application papers included on the
>> NEACommittee agenda for 15th May 2007.  In addition to
>> this, I have today read all the comments submitted by
>> local residents.
>>
>> The final one of these was submitted on behalf of the
>> Co-ordinating Committee of Headington Residents
>> Associations.  I agree that there is a pressing need
>> for accommodation for post graduate students and
>> wonder whether the many objections about  over
>> development of the site for a potentially unruly group
>> of young students could be overcome if there was a
>> stipulation that the properties be developed with
>> larger space standards for mature students, possibly
>> with children?
>>
>> Marie Vickers
>>
>> --- Stephanie Jenkins <<email obscured>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Marie: I donâ€™t have the energy to summarize the
>>> city councilâ€™s appeal statement, as it is ten
>>> pages long!  And then in order to be fair I would
>>> also have to summarize the appellantâ€™s statement
>>> (six pages).  In any case, summarizing legal
>>> documents is risky.
>>>
>>> All the information you need is on the city council
>>> planning website:
>>>
>> http://www.oxford.gov.uk/planning/planning-applications-search.cfm
>>>
>>> Given the length of the planning database URLs, I
>>> have created â€œTiny URLsâ€ to lead you straight to
>>> the following:
>>>
>>> (1) Appeal statement of Council:
>>> http://tiny.cc/0mxgG
>>>
>>> (2) Appeal statement of Appellant (Cherwell Housing
>>> Trust):
>>> http://tiny.cc/W3wg2
>>>
>>> If you go into the planning database, you can also
>>> read the letters of objection by local residents
>>> when the plans were submitted.
>>>
>>> As for your point about purpose-built student
>>> accommodation, if two houses each containing a small
>>> group of students are replaced by two blocks for 49
>>> students, I donâ€™t think that it will reduce the
>>> number of HMOs (houses in multi-occupation) in
>>> Windmill Road one jot.  If anything, the number is
>>> likely to increase, as students will like living
>>> near these blocks if their facilities are good (with
>>> rooms big enough for parties) and they have friends
>>> there.   And Windmill Road will always remain a very
>>> desirable area for students because of the bus
>>> services and shops.
>>>
>>> Accommodation blocks need to be set apart from
>>> residentsâ€™ housing, as many students have a
>>> tendency to turn night into day, especially when
>>> removed from a household situation.  These blocks
>>> will stand sentinel each side of the entrance to
>>> Mattockâ€™s Close where there are many elderly
>>> people and young children.
>>>
>>> Stephanie Jenkins
>>> Headington, Oxford
>>> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
>>>
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/stephaniejenkins
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>      ___________________________________________________________
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>>
>> Marie Vickers
>>
>> Info about Marie Vickers:
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From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Feb 21 08:26 UTC Short link

Not all students who live in HMOs have cars, but a lot of them do, because
students who insist on running a car will *always* choose to live out.  There
is one student house in Kennett Road that has five parking permits.

I think the number of permits should be limited to two for every house in
Headington (as in other congested parts of Oxford); but that student households
(which are very easily identifiable because they do not pay council tax) should
not get any permits at all.

If students in hostels (some of which are much further away from Brookes than
central Headington) are not allowed to have cars, I don't see why those who
live in private houses where there is no off-street parking should feel like
second-class citizens if they are treated in the same way.  (Many permanent
residents moving into new flats in Headington are not allowed to have permits;
they must feel annoyed to see their temporary student neighbours having as many
as they like.)

The county council is going to have a real headache adjudicating among students
now that payment for permits is coming in.  There are going to be squabbles
over which two students in the house get the first two permits at £40, who gets
the third  permit at £80, and which students thereafter have to pay £120 a year
for each additional permit.  The yearly permits do not match the Brookes year,
and students will leave at different times with permits unexpired, creating
utter confusion and too many permits floating around.

The county council could take the easy option and just not give permits to
student households.
Students who really need cars would still have the option to move to houses
with off-street parking, of course.

From: Chris Brewer Date: Feb 21 09:12 UTC Short link

When I went to Leeds University I lived in a tin bath, and I thought myself
lucky.
Alright, a bit of an exaggeration, but the housing in the Headingley, Burley
and Woodhouse areas in the seventies was certainly a bit rough. Character
forming I would say.

I was interested to hear about the demolition of stone buildings in the
Meanwood area, which I remember well. I very much agree that we need to protect
distinctive, vernacular housing. But that is something we are not very good at
in Oxford. Conservation area status certainly doesn’t seem to help, a case in
point being St. Clements, where distinctive and characteristic buildings have
been demolished, or are threatened with demolition.

From: Mike Ratcliffe Date: Feb 21 11:46 UTC Short link

Tin Bath?  When I went to Leeds University you were lucky if you had a tin
bath, I had to sleep in a hall of residence...

Leeds has taken it's responsibility seriously and has a Housing Strategy as
part of it's Access and Community Engagement strategy
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/ace/community/housing.htm

I would say that Brookes does the same (they do pay me) and it really is trying
to meet the condition of the local plan to get more students into accomodation
it owns or is owned by someone who it can have a direct relationship with.
What we don't have here is a lot of development land, which Leeds has benefited
from so that it can move from smaller halls of residence in residential areas
to providing self-catered flat units - say as part of the developments south of
the city centre.

From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Feb 28 08:05 UTC Short link

There is an article on this proposed student development in today's Oxford
Mail:
http://www.oxfordmail.net/display.var.2078523.0.fears_over_student_hall_plans.php
The Oxford Mail's own online discussion is already growing quickly there, with
some interesting points.

This is one of several items introduced on the forum that have subsequently
been taken up by the Oxford Mail & Times (thank you, Chris Kearney!)  So if you
think that there are any other issues in your part of Headington & Marston that
need publicizing, this is a good place to bring them up.

There are two ways to start a new subject:

(1) Via the website. Go to:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm
Make sure you are logged in, and then click on "Start a new topic".
(Please make sure that you give the new topic a meaningful subject line, as it
will be used for all subsequent messages in the thread.)

(2) Via email. Simply send a new message (again with a good subject line) from
the email address that you used to join the forum to:
<email obscured>

From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Apr 29 10:56 UTC Short link

The appeal by Cherwell Housing Trust against the city council's refusal of
planning permission for student accommodation to replace
(1) 90 Windmill Road/ 1A Mattock Close and (2) 88 Windmill Road was duly held
at the Town Hall on 22 and 23 April.  The result will not be known until around
26 May.

Tony Joyce (Chairman of the Coordinating Committee of the Headington Residents
Associations and Chairman of the Civic Society) made an excellent speech
against the development, and he has given me permission to show it to the forum
(see attached document).

The rest of the evidence submitted at the appeal can be seen here on the
planning website:
88 Windmill Road:
http://planning.oxford.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=DC&appNumber=06/02539/FUL
90 Windmill Road:
http://planning.oxford.gov.uk/WAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=DC&appNumber=06/02540/FUL

The following file was added to this topic:

appeal_88_90_windmill_road_tony_joyce.doc (application/msword, 66KB)

From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: May 19 12:08 UTC Short link

The planning inspector has decided to allow this appeal with conditions, and
granted planning permission for 88 & 90 Windmill Road and 1A Mattock Close to
be demolished and replaced with housing for a total of 49 students.

The document containing the two Appeal Decisions runs to twelve pages, and you
can read it here on the Government's Planning Portal website:
http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/fscdav/READONLY?OBJ=COO.2036.300.2.10460030&NAME=/Decision.pdf

The most significant of the eighteen conditions attached to each application is
probably the third one, namely that there has to be a "warden or student
representative of the educational establishment occupying the accommodation"
living on the site.

From: Tony Joyce Date: May 22 04:32 UTC Short link

I feared this might be the decision, from the way the Appeal went, but to
get a resident warden is a significant improvement over what was being
proposed. The best we could salvage, I think, is if 88 could be reserved for
graduates and post-graduates, so that the warden could concentrate on 90 +
1A. I will try to move things in this direction.
Tony

On 19/5/08 13:09, "Stephanie Jenkins" <<email obscured>> wrote:

> The planning inspector has decided to allow this appeal with conditions, and
> granted planning permission for 88 & 90 Windmill Road and 1A Mattock Close to
> be demolished and replaced with housing for a total of 49 students.
>
> The document containing the two Appeal Decisions runs to twelve pages, and
you
> can read it here on the Government's Planning Portal website:
>
http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/fscdav/READONLY?OBJ=COO.2036.30
> 0.2.10460030&NAME=/Decision.pdf
>
> The most significant of the eighteen conditions attached to each application
> is probably the third one, namely that there has to be a "warden or student
> representative of the educational establishment occupying the accommodation"
> living on the site.
>
>
> Stephanie Jenkins
> Headington, Oxford
> Info about Stephanie Jenkins:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/stephaniejenkins

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