Posts in Oxford - Headington & Marston Neighbourhood Forum

Does Quarry need a Residents' Association? From: Kate Stratford Date: Nov 21 18:54 UTC Short link

Quoting from the previous post:  "Would it be strictly necessary to have
Council Officers and other agency personnel in attendance if it was Open Forum
only on a Saturday? Surely the odd occasional Saturday of Public Service could
be done without any Overtime payments being made couldn't it? what's a bit of
giving up of one's time for Public Service"
I hope this doesn't count as going 'off topic', but I have an opinion with
regards to the person making that post telling me that because I work for the
council, I ought to attend meetings on weekends without any payment and that
this should be done, presumably gladly, (I assume you want us there - in our
own time - perky and willing to engage and helpful, rather than we sit there
scowling and hungover with our arms folded being monosyllabic?   Because, don't
forget, you get what you pay for, and you don't want to pay us) and all in the
name of public service.

Why do you consider I shouldn't be paid?   In my experience, when I attend
public meetings (which in my role I don't have to do particularly often) it's
usually so members of the public can shout at me and tell me what a rotten job
I'm doing and/or how much they dislike the council.  You want me to do this on
a Saturday?  Without pay?

I live locally.  Most of my colleagues do not.  Thinking about most of the
colleagues I know about, and this is (a) unscientific and (b) a generalisation,
most of my colleagues who live within the city are the lower paid workers.
Most times, people who you'd need at meetings - those people from supervisor
and junior management level upwards live outside the city, until you get up to
the most senior levels.  The Chief Executive and at least one of the 2
Directors both live in Oxford.  Will you be paying the travelling expenses of
these people to attend work on a Saturday without pay, or will you be expecting
them to fund their journey to your meeting themselves, thus making themselves
further out of pocket than if they had stayed at home enjoying their weekend?

Also, please don't forget there are 6 area committees across the city.  For
things like Planning, the officers divide the city up so that one person
doesn't have to attend every meeting.  However, for things that are City Wide
you'll often get one officer attending all 6 Area Committees - I have done this
myself.  So suddenly, this isn't the "odd occasional Saturday".  Are you still
not wanting to pay me?

And, what constitutes occasional?  Once a year?   Twice?  Monthly?   Weekly?
Who decides how much of our downtime we should give up for free in the name of
public service?   How will we know when we've given enough?

And I should point out many people in the council DO work weekends and
evenings, regularly.  Those who work in leisure, for example.  Or who work
places which provide a 24 hour service.  Litter pickers, toilet cleaners.  If
you have a council related emergency on a Saturday, an officer will be there.
I hope you won't resent that they will be paid when they help you out.

The way payments work at the council are:  You get paid for your 37 hours, or
whatever (most full time people are on 37 hours per week).  Over and above that
there are one-off payments for evening meetings, as long as they meet certain
conditions.  You can get TOIL (time off in lieu) and some people get overtime.
On the grade I'm on, I can get TOIL but I won't - and have never - been paid
for overtime.  However, under the flex system the council operates, officers
who get flex (and not all do), we can only carry over 10 hours additional a
month.   If we've worked more than 10 hours over and above our contracted time,
we automatically lose those extra hours.   So, effectively, we do work without
pay.  It is a regular occurance for me and many of my colleagues to lose hours
this way on a monthly basis.

With regard to Saturdays, do you want me to give up time with my husband and
young daughter?  Does the fact I'm also a foster carer mean you'll allow me to
be excused?  Or should I still give up my precious down time for free?

There are lots of things I do with my own time which others may consider worthy
and of benefit to a community.  And lots of my colleagues do too.  Does someone
who does voluntary work on a Saturday have to attend your meeting for free,
even if his/her attendance puts out others who would otherwise benefit from
their time?  Do you still think we should give up our Saturdays?

And this ignores the fact that I often chose to take work home because I
haven't had time to do it during the day and anything I do at home is never,
never paid, claimed, TOIL'd, etc.   I have also taken telephone calls outside
work, in the evenings and at weekends.   I don't get paid for that either,
although I do have the option to switch my phone off.  I also run work-related
errands on the weekends if I haven't had time to do them during the week.  I'll
pop somewhere to check something out if necessary, often dragging my family
with me.  Mostly, my manager will never know I've taken work home or dealt with
phone calls or run errands.  But my family do.

I'll let them know you don't consider it's enough.
    

Headington Christmas Experience From: Pippa Gwilliam Date: Nov 21 16:09 UTC Short link

What about the person who usually does the storytelling anually on Shotover?
It's a council-run thing, and he's very good.  Don't know the name though -
someone in the Council must.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Frank Cummings
  To: Oxford - Headington & Marston Neighbourhood Forum
  Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:00 PM
  Subject: [HMNF] Headington Christmas Experience


  SOS.

  We have been let down by our children's story teller and would ask if anyone
could take this on.

  The venue would be Charles Lawson Estate Agent's on Saturday 29th Nov. at a
time to suit.
  (We would suggest an hour in the morning say 11am and if poss an hour in the
afternoon say 2pm.)

  Is there a person or persons on the forum - or know of someone - who could
help?

  Please contact:  Jill Cummings. Telephone  07765505444


  Frank Cummings
  Headington, Oxford
  Info about Frank Cummings: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/frankcummings

  This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1CxcPcVXJsdq4p3waqg6tE
  -----------------------------------------
    To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
    To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
    in subject line and send to: <email obscured>

    More info about Oxford - Headington &amp; Marston Neighbourhood Forum:
    http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm

    E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
  -----------------------------------------
  Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
    

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
  Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.8/1800 - Release Date: 11/19/2008
6:55 PM

Refuse and recycling containers From: David Clover Date: Nov 21 13:12 UTC Short link

I don't want another wheelie bin, in fact I can manage fine without one
altogether just using the existing plastic boxes... They are unsightly and
can easily block side passage fire escape routes. The whole town is now a
chaotic and undisciplined 'wheelie bin city'.

And green was quite the maddest colour to choose for the big landfill
wheelie bin - it makes it look to the uninstructed (especially the ephemeral
and rapidly changing student community) as though everything put in a green
wheelie bin is Recyclable - it even has the word 'Recycle' written on it
when that's exactly what it isn't for! Quite Daft. They should have been
supplied at least as grey or something neutral and with the word 'Landfill'
written on them.

But the streetscape is now irretrievably poisoned by these things - and this
proposal is potentially going to treble the problem. Perhaps on some
'Heritage' streets they will actually be banned by the County Council, along
with buses and bicycles - the High Street outside the Old Bank Hotel and All
Souls spring to mind.

I feel strongly that my Headington locality is 'My' heritage site too, and I
deeply resent the visual disamenity they cause when not properly put away
out of sight on 6 days of the week and it's about to get much worse... I
also believe that responsible householders who have very little landfill to
offer and know exactly which day each fortnight on which to put their waste
tidily on the pavement, can manage perfectly well by using the purple
landfill bags, thus reducing the non-collection-day street clutter
substantially.

David Clover
    

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas fell [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: 21 November 2008 12:24
To: Oxford - Headington & Marston Neighbourhood Forum
Subject: Re: [HMNF] Refuse and recycling containers

What are people's feelings about being given yet another Wheelie bin?, this
time a brown one, for food waste, which is also to be emptied once a
fortnight according to the Council.  Does anyone think that this might be a
problem for them?  I also understand that Garden waste is to be put in the
brown bin along with food waste, and that the green bags are going to be
phased out of use.
Any complaints please phone John Tanner at the City Council.


nicholas fell
Royal Borough of Headington, City of Oxford Info about nicholas fell:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/nicholasfell

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7u6KB59HRym67HpYB0zb2r
-----------------------------------------
  To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
  To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
  in subject line and send to: <email obscured>

  More info about Oxford - Headington &amp; Marston Neighbourhood Forum:
  http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/oxford-hm

  E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
-----------------------------------------
Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net

Refuse and recycling containers From: nicholas fell Date: Nov 21 12:22 UTC Short link

What are people's feelings about being given yet another Wheelie bin?, this
time a brown one, for food waste, which is also to be emptied once a fortnight
according to the Council.  Does anyone think that this might be a problem for
them?  I also understand that Garden waste is to be put in the brown bin along
with food waste, and that the green bags are going to be phased out of use.
Any complaints please phone John Tanner at the City Council.
    

Don't shoot the messenger From: Ruth Wilkinson Date: Nov 21 08:43 UTC Short link

I'll follow up the delay in making undelivered parcels available for collection
because Headington ward councillors were given an assurance that this would be
no longer than 24 hours, except for weekends.  It might be that there is a
sickness problem - I'll post up their response here.  Julia, did you go through
the Royal Mail complaints procedures?
    

Building democracy and community online in Oxford - Volunteer query From: Stephanie Jenkins Date: Nov 21 07:43 UTC Short link

All three Oxford forums in existence already have a group that is meant to be a
steering committee, but in fact they are just worthy people who were pulled
together in order to get the forums off the ground, and they are not very
proactive.

Some kind of steering committee is required to ensure that the forum remains
fit for purpose.  It has the power, for instance, to get rid of a manager who
has his or her own agenda, or who is simply failing to do the little admin jobs
of taking new members off moderation, helping people sign up, etc.

A steering committee covering all six forums would have more experience, and of
course it would be easier to get one strong group together rather than six, and
they could pool experiences.  This committee would not interfere with the
forums, but would be there to advise the manager how to deal with problems, and
would keep in touch with e-Democracy.

Poor Shey Cobley of the city council has until now had to look after both the
Cowley and the Central South and West (CSW) forums.  A stronger city-wide
steering group offering real support might make it easier to find people to
take on the job.

(As for Area Committee meetings, which have somehow got tangled up with this
thread, I personally would much prefer them to be at the weekend, but I can
quite understand why council staff wouldn’t want to come on a Saturday
morning.)
    

Building democracy and community online in Oxford - Volunteer query From: Jock Coats Date: Nov 21 00:09 UTC Short link

I agree with Kate.

I think it is too much to expect officers to be on hand for Saturday
morning meetings, unless of course they are attending as residents or
users or whatever the meeting is about.

How about a slightly modified suggestion then.  "Open forums" are
difficult because, as Kate suggests, they will often produce an ad hoc
demand for information which, unless they are so well organized in
advance (and therefore not "open forums" at all), that they have
agendas, background papers and so on prepared.

So, why not try and set out a series of Saturday meetings, maybe
months in advance, on particular longer term issues.  The "sponsor" of
a particular topic could organize it - do the research or arrange at
least to have stats and figures that may be relevant - get people to
lead discussion and so on.

I am sure we can find many issues on which we could spend a couple of
hours in a "themed" meeting.  Things that are medium-long term or
predictably timed issues such as:

• Local development framework changes - we'd know well in advance if
this sort of thing was going to happen in the next year

• One meeting a year where neighbourhoods come and share what
celebration events (Christmas lights, Headington Fair, Barton Bash,
Fireworks, church fetes, open garden events and so on) they have
planned over the next year - perhaps being able as a result to get
help from each other and certainly additional participants and
visitors to those events

• I'm sure we could throw a few ideas together for a good couple of
hours any day of the week on the variety of shops in Headington, what
could be done to change it and what assistance we as a community say
might need to make that happen - like planning policy changes,
landlord meetings or whatever

• Perhaps, just to make them political, one such meeting could be some
kind of area hust or "question time" format for councillors (since
I've just been watching Mr Dimbleby!)

None of these type of things would need council officers.  If they
directly relate to particular council issues they're the sort of thing
that could be researched in advance by a councillor or two or a
residents' association or similar.  But they could achieve something
the area committees cannot do because they have council business to
transact on each occasion and could be oriented to finding mutually
agreed solutions for local "big issues" whicih would be positive,
rather than "venting sessions" which tend not to be positive.

Perhaps the area committee could set aside a small budget for maybe
one of these every couple of months - to pay for venues if necessary
or expenses for "expert" speakers perhaps.

Just my (several) tuppence worths...

That said, I think there are improvements that could be made in the
way the real area committees work that would enable them to be more
resident participative and perhaps less a case of each councillor
having their say in front of a mute audience on each issue!
    

Jock

On 20 Nov 2008, at 23:33, Kate Stratford wrote:

> I'm writing as a council officer - at the moment, and as a resident
> in Marston.  Some of us can claim for overtime, but not all (it
> depends on your grade, i.e. level of responsibility).   Speaking for
> myself (and not as a council employee), I'm part time.  I take home
> less than 20k   I do masses and masses of work in my own time, for
> which I'll never be paid or get time off, because of the grade I'm
> on.  and that's fine, that's my choice.   but my heart sinks when
> someone proposes a Saturday morning meeting (or similar).   Because,
> hey, I have a life.  It's a pretty sad life.  I hardly ever go out,
> but I've got (to my eyes) a totally gorgeous almost 7 year old, who
> has to do all manner of after school clubs and rubbish because I
> have to be at work.   And who has a Saturday morning dance class,
> which I can't take her to if there are Saturday morning meetings
> (which, as been suggested on this forum, I should be glad to
> volunteer to attend at).   And with my officer head on, I'm
>  totally fine if community groups want to hold meetings without
> council officers there.  But then where will you all get your stats
> that you're all so keen on knowing?   or who will take the minutes?
>
>
> Kate Stratford

--
Jock Coats - OX3 Online, the community portal for OX3
Warden's Flat 1e, J Block Morrell Hall, OXFORD, OX3 0FF
m: 07769 695767 skype:jock.coats?call http://ox3online.net

Building democracy and community online in Oxford - Volunteer query From: Kate Stratford Date: Nov 20 23:31 UTC Short link

I'm writing as a council officer - at the moment, and as a resident in Marston.
Some of us can claim for overtime, but not all (it depends on your grade, i.e.
level of responsibility).   Speaking for myself (and not as a council
employee), I'm part time.  I take home less than 20k   I do masses and masses
of work in my own time, for which I'll never be paid or get time off, because
of the grade I'm on.  and that's fine, that's my choice.   but my heart sinks
when someone proposes a Saturday morning meeting (or similar).   Because, hey,
I have a life.  It's a pretty sad life.  I hardly ever go out, but I've got (to
my eyes) a totally gorgeous almost 7 year old, who has to do all manner of
after school clubs and rubbish because I have to be at work.   And who has a
Saturday morning dance class, which I can't take her to if there are Saturday
morning meetings (which, as been suggested on this forum, I should be glad to
volunteer to attend at).   And with my officer head on, I'm totally fine if
community groups want to hold meetings without council officers there.  But
then where will you all get your stats that you're all so keen on knowing?   or
who will take the minutes?
    

Headington Christmas Experience From: Frank Cummings Date: Nov 20 20:59 UTC Short link

SOS.

We have been let down by our children's story teller and would ask if anyone
could take this on.

The venue would be Charles Lawson Estate Agent's on Saturday 29th Nov. at a
time to suit.
(We would suggest an hour in the morning say 11am and if poss an hour in the
afternoon say 2pm.)

Is there a person or persons on the forum - or know of someone - who could
help?

Please contact:  Jill Cummings. Telephone  07765505444
    

Building democracy and community online in Oxford - Volunteer query From: Lindsey Doyle Date: Nov 20 20:29 UTC Short link

Nicholas:

To quote your own words:

"Don't ever be afraid to tell someone exactly what you think of them. The
British are very good at the cultured yet extremely cutting insult, I wouldn't
have it any other way."

So... your English is atrocious; your views are bizarre; your manners are
appalling and you frequently verge on the slanderous. Some of us were dismayed
when you reneged on your statement of October 23rd that you would never post on
this forum again.

Well... I'm only doing what you suggested: "Don't ever be afraid to tell
someone exactly what you think of them."