Winona Online Democracy Latest Posts 2008-07-03T17:40:15Z E-Democracy.Org Forums http://forums.e-democracy.org http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/winona/messages/posts.atom GroupServer http://forums.e-democracy.org/favicon.ico Bridge Relocation http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/7bjNqWZIJWWY8sCpAlb72z John Finn /p/johnfinn 2008-07-03T17:40:15Z

    
E-mail-A-Friend: Pelowski kicks off July filing period http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/KjKtxUzI95RXKxSggzapQ Craig Brooks /p/craigbrooks 2008-07-02T13:53:02Z
Comment:
Local election article.
Craig Brooks
Bluffland Preservation http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/1Y72jcDPLYbY83A1sFXVKk Jay Burros /p/jayburros 2008-07-01T15:10:50Z
As an owner of nearly 40 acres of bluffland within the city limits of Winona I
would like to start a discussion about the proposed ordinances by the city and
county. What are your feelings? Are these ordinances too much? not enough? And
how do they affect me?

Jay Burros
Does Winona Lack Talent? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/1MNlDuo8GZVbKjfGw0Js7E Steve Kranz /p/stevekranz1 2008-06-30T23:00:20Z
Greetings Everyone,

Just a reminder that all posts must be signed with your full actual name.
Please make sure to do that with each message you send.

And a second, friendly, reminder that while no one has said anything that
breaks the rules - just remember that it is helpful to keep the discussion
focused on issues and avoid general "critiques" of individuals.  The
discussion is much more productive that way and it encourages maximum
participation by everyone.

Thanks,

Steve Kranz,
List Manager.
Does Winona Lack Tourists? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/3KA34Vv1z9FfxEEDLPwNvd Leslie Hittner /p/lesliehittner 2008-06-30T22:43:58Z
Linda,

Whether or not it's "for you" the GRSF, the Beethoven Festival,
and the Frozen River Film Festival, among other things, do just
that. Those of us who have been there see the tourists. I think
our local hotel man sees them too. Look what's going up next to
the Holiday Inn.

Now perhaps we could add some things, such as biker activities
or Country Western musical events. That would be great. But
let's not ignore what has been happening. This town is getting
to become a really GREAT late winter and summer destination (and
we haven't even begun to capitalize on our great out-of-doors).


-Leslie Hittner
Supreme Court Ruling on the 2nd Ammendment http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/2vM19bzhV3Pc9wRsAuxFKj Leslie Hittner /p/lesliehittner 2008-06-30T22:38:09Z
Not quite, Tim. I believe I only said that a gun on a citizen's hip would not
result in more courtesy.

With respect to crime, I did not make a correlation between crime and guns. The
basic question remains, "... how to control access to guns in order to make our
society safer and to do so without violating a fundamental constitutional
right." Basically, we want to keep guns from the criminal element - some of
whom have not been identified as such at the time they make the purchase - and
"good" citizens.

That's not an easy question to answer. This last supreme court ruling is not an
answer. I believe it is a rather extreme position that frames the logical
playing field for the answer. The answer - if indeed it resolves - will likely
be arrived at in case law over the next decade or so.

-Leslie Hittner

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Tim Slade
  To: Steve Kranz
  Cc: <email obscured>
  Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 15:14
  Subject: Re: [Winona] Supreme Court Ruling on the 2nd Ammendment


  [Winona Online Democracy]
Fwd: Does Winona Lack Tourists? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/5MNIYKIpmBkUFpMTOdfX79 Jerome Christenson /p/jeromechristenson1 2008-06-30T22:03:45Z
As to Monta's comment on the highway - I'll assume she refers to 14/61,
since 43 has passed through downtown since the 1800s, before it was
designated a state highway. 14/61 was never routed through what we now
know as the Historic Downtown District - it followed Mankato to Sarnia
then split at what it now the intersection of Gilmore and Junction - 14
following Gilmore west and up the hill past Saint Mary's and 61
following Junction, through what is now Goodview to Minnesota City and
points north.
As for the highway's value to Red Wing and Lake City - to me and my
family it only means annoying traffic lights and a couple of speed traps
on the way to the airport. I believe their tourist-kitsch downtowns owe
more to being an hour closer to Edina than we are than to annoyed
travelers trying to get on with our lives.
Bob makes good points - Winona is developing solid events that appeal to
an up-market clientele spread throughout the year - having passed (very
patiently) through Richland Center last weekend better a month of
Beethoven than one day of the country crazies.



Jerome Christenson
Online Editor
Winona Daily News
601 Franklin St.
Winona, MN 55987
(507) 453-3522
www.winonadailynews.com
Does Winona Lack Talent? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/5jwRVtZlcZQiCtifvWECfo Joliene Olson /p/jolieneolson 2008-06-30T21:55:15Z
Since there were no specific comments in Paul posting I thought that Paul was
just throwing out a topic for discussion.  I apologize if he was referring to
the selection of specific committees and non-resident members. I was referring
to talent in general in the Winona Area!

I agree with Bob that we have several new venues that have been added to the
activities in our area recently and they are fine additions.  I think Linda is
correct however that we should broaden our options and include some activities
that appeal to different types of people.  Much of what we have is
theater/music etc and not everyone is interested in that.  It takes hard work
to organize these events however and just wishing won't make it happen.

Joliene Olson
Fwd: Does Winona Lack Tourists? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/1Woyzfv5IAoeJlPIPrSK0G Monta May /p/montamay 2008-06-30T21:44:02Z
To Bob,
Your "*or did you specifically want a Tractor Pull, Linda?*" nearly
qualifies as argumentum ad hominem.

I think that all the events you mention are wonderful in and of themselves.
However I wonder  - with the possible exception of Steamboat Days - if they
bring much in the way of tourist dollars into the community in general. Is
information on this issue gathered? Does anyone have verifiable numbers on
local business cash flows during these events?

I can understand Linda's point very well. As a relative newcomer to Winona
(only 12 years in the area and 5 in town) I have always wondered about the
decision back when the highway was built, to bypass the downtown district.
With the highway routed outside of the downtown area there is little
incentive for the "Sunday drivers" to stop in Winona as they wind their way
up or down the river, as opposed to towns like Lake City or Redwing which
have the highway pass through the downtown areas and seem to have fairly
vibrant downtowns.

Although with gasoline prices as high as they are now, perhaps the Sunday
drive tourists are staying closer to home.
Does Winona Lack Talent? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/3Kh2T6pCYD6uBnhu8VSCm0 Mr Mark /p/mrmark 2008-06-30T21:41:14Z
As mentioned before, the question of talent in Winona starts at the top with
the leadership of the town.
Now there is talent...  Talent to screw things up and chase away the tourist
dollar.

Miller and his lackeys are doing whatever they can to chase away the best
form of economic stimulation this town has... Tourism....
Their lack of leadership in all areas is what keeps the talent this town
has, hidden.

Their lack foresight, ability to keep to their word and ability to develop a
real plan of action, will keep great people from getting involved in
anything this town does.
Locals will take their talent and their ideas to other towns, events and
places where they are appreciated.  Leaving their money elsewhere.

This also drives people away from here.  Planning an event? a trip?  Skip
Winona and go to  ____  Fill in the blank _____, where tourists are wanted
and appreciated.

Winona has a lot of talented people who want to get involved.  Who want to
bring new ideas and new events to Winona... But nobody in their right mind
will do it if the leadership of the community (Mayor and city hall) can not
be trusted to support and back them up 100%

Add to that the people who follow blindly, the elected leaders and bury
their heads in the sand right along with the leadership....  Wanting to live
on past glories and past memories... Not wanting to rock the boat or live in
the present.
Does Winona Lack Tourists? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/6qIefkeNf0J9cG3aalVCX5 Linda Fort /p/lindafort 2008-06-30T21:37:04Z
I doubt a tractor pull would be popular in Winona, I will go to the Houston
Hoedown for that :-)
 Do the events you mention bring in a large number of tourists though?  If
so, it is not mentioned in the local news.

Linda Fort
Does Winona Lack Tourists? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/1OxjTcFMCxubyICeNmMvXU Bob Sebo /p/bobsebo 2008-06-30T21:02:47Z
I don't know...Great River Shakespeare...Gilmore Creek...Beethoven
Festival...Dakota Homecoming...Steamboat Days...Frozen River Film
Festival...

or did you specifically want a Tractor Pull, Linda?
Does Winona Lack Tourists? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/56Gdn9mHXfvfdgH6m7sjAc Linda Fort /p/lindafort 2008-06-30T20:57:26Z
This isn't necessarily about talent but I think Winona often misses the
boat so to speak on getting more tourists.
  Look at all the people that just attended the biker build off in LaCrosse.
I was told that was expected to generate $3M for the city.
 The little city of Richland Center,WI has their country music fest; I have
no idea what that event adds to their economy.
  Eau Claire has their country jam music event.
 Winona needs a huge event to get tourists to town.  The highway passes the
city and unless someone was coming for a purpose I don't know if they would
even stop.


Linda Fort
Ridgeway
Does Winona Lack Talent? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/6XeCYOZNhxDqdK7u2Uy8kg Bob Sebo /p/bobsebo 2008-06-30T20:14:27Z
I really had no intention of wading in on this one, but as Joliene has
picked up the ball and run with it I thought I would add my two cents worth.
I am a member of this committee...but that is the only possible sign from
the group's makeup that Winona might not have enough talent.

I asked the City Manager seven months ago if it was approriate to appoint
non-city residents to this group.  He told me that it was a mayoral adisory
committee...created by him alone and not by council action.  As such,
according to Eric, Jerry is free to appoint anyone from anywhere that he
thinks will have the expertise to help the effort succeed.  I know he told
me he was trying to obtain input from a variety of perspectives and skill
sets (my forte being heritage preservation...others came from fields such as
landscape architecture, river ecology and the fine arts, among others).

The reason I asked Eric about the mayor's selections back in December was
that I knew someone would notice the presence of nonresidents on the
committee and question it.  Paul does not disappoint.  That is no surprise
as Paul, to the best of my knowledge, has never met a government agency or
commission (or government for that matter) of which he approves.  Having
said that Paul is a terrific guy...he is simply tremendously misguided and
challenged politically and philosophically  :-)  He also sponsors the 7:00
am news so I should shut up now!  LOL

Let's talk about the bridge some more...I'm less likely to get into trouble

FYI...The Downtown Revitalization Committee will, as I understand it, hear
brief final oral reports from our group and the Wilkie Group and formally
recieve the two sets of written recommendations on July 15 at 7:30am in
Council Chambers.  The DRC will present their recommendation to the council
on August 4.  The DRC can, again as I understand it, do whatever they want
with both reports...including throwing both out.  When a hired landscape
architect (which I think is already a fait accompli) comes on the scene in
this process and who they work with (DRC?)I don't know.


Bob Sebo
Does Winona Lack Talent? http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/SUO5O0WMcBT8yZShbPRpT Joliene Olson /p/jolieneolson 2008-06-30T17:37:25Z
My personal opinion is that Winona is NOT lacking in talent.  We have access to
some of the brightest people in the world through our Universities and
Technical College. If not at the College itself, then through their contacts.
We have had several groups go through Blandin Foundation Community Development
training, just to name a few reasons we have talented people in the area.

When one looks at the multiple businesses in this community that have a
successful international presence we have to be in awe of the business accumen
there is available.

Where Winona has it's problems, again in my opinion, is pulling it all
together.  There are two many folks "satisfied with the way it has always
been".  There are a lot of "NIMBY" attitudes that keep us from going forward
and looking forward to what is possible.

Rochester, for example, says we have a problem or here is an idea and everyone
asks "how can we make it work". Some one in Winona has an idea or sees a
problem and immediately it is a negative response.  "It won't work here", "we
don't need that", "what we have was good enough for my parents so it's good
enough for my kids" are some of the typical responses.

No Paul, we don't lack talent.  We lack strong enough leadership to move people
forward instead of staying stuck in the past.  We aren't proactive, we react
instead.

Joliene Olson
Minnesota cities are surprised to learn they won't be getting the state aid dollars they expected http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/uMkqMA4Sb3eQnUOMLJ0kE Dick Gaffron /p/dickgaffron 2008-06-30T12:00:34Z
I'll be checking with our city clerk to see how Rollingstone City faired and
will report later.   Dick Gaffron
Build Spillways not Dikes http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/5zUSHnKvvX2OCRhwyRA4tl Grace Kelly (nicknamed Kelly) /p/gracekelly 2008-06-29T14:13:36Z
With the new round of floods, I think there will be pressure to build more
dikes. Dikes will never be tall enough because the contained water will get
higher and higher downstream. I think that we should instead plan on building
more spillways. All across the state I know we have huge gravel pits, that
basically needed to be recovered environmentally. A flood level granite ditch
could drain into a old gravel pits. Every spillway would conserve water here as
well as solving flooding problems at every area downstream.

Spillways could be

1) All across the state I know we have huge gravel pits, that basically needed
to be recovered environmentally. A flood level granite ditch could drain into a
old gravel pits. Even if the gravel pits are not close enough to a river,
perhaps a cities storm drains could be set up to be rerouted there if needed.

2) Before each town or city could be ponds and parks that are specifically set
up to flood first. Any structure built on these lands would be first floor
flood friendly, the look of being on stilts.

Grace Kelly nicknamed Kelly
St Paul, MN
(I know that I do live in your area, however this idea seems more relevant in
your area).
Bridge Relocation http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/65PC9JsclUN44ysD73v0Xq Steve Kranz /p/stevekranz1 2008-06-27T22:14:34Z
I attended the first meeting of the "bridge coalition" that was convened by
Senator Ropes.  I don't think another meeting has been scheduled yet . . .
at least I haven't received notice of it (and I am on the email list).  I
did talk at that meeting about Winona Online Democracy as a resource for
bringing the discussion into the community.

I hope to put together a bridge "wiki" page on e-democracy.org that includes
the information from the wod discussion on the topic  (and include Les's
drawings and any other graphic, photo or video information that might be
helpful - and then bring the page to the attention of those doing the
planning - assuming that their will be public notice of the planning
process.

Steve Kranz,
List Manager
Bridge Relocation http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/5H6OZUuSnCX5LJAnbT5Yt3 Joliene Olson /p/jolieneolson 2008-06-27T21:18:27Z
In his article in the Daily News, Jim Galewski asks the same question I have
asked before.  Do we know if the powers to be and who are working with MNDOT
have gotten these ideas in a written format and are able to use them in their
discussions.

If anyone knows whether or not this is happening, I would appreciate you just
coming on the site and saying so.

I understand most of what has been described but not entirely. Les, would you
be able to make sure Senator Ropes has copies of your maps that you have
contributed?  I saw something in the paper about a meeting that is being pulled
together by Senator Ropes an am unable to attend so hope those of you who have
drawn and analyzed these suggestions will be able to attend or see that she has
the information.

Thanks everyone
Joliene Olson
Take Action Minnesota http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/post/7G1hyRY3rGMUV9opqVSg0P Craig Brooks /p/craigbrooks 2008-06-27T17:56:36Z
http://takeactionmn.nonprofitoffice.com

This is a web site / group I ran across that seemed of interest and related on
what WODis about. Their purpose statementsays:

Our Mission
To unite the power of diverse individuals, communities, and organizations in
active grassroots democracy that builds social, racial, and economic justice.




Our Vision
We envision a Minnesota dedicated to the principles of strong communities,
democracy, and equal opportunity for all.


Just sharing in case it seems interesting to others...................
Craig Brooks