Recent Assault

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I just read the article about the young man who was brutally beat near
Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
 
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
 
Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I
feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here :
 
1: What the hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously,
roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting people? What if anything is being done
about this?
 
2. Where were the police before and during this assault?
 
This pack of 30-50 youth were literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's
Eastern district headquarters. THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was
occurring 300 ft away from my house I would probably be more aware and break it
up before something bad happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that
this near-fatal assault basically happened on their doorstep.
 
Its sad because these type of stories and events read to everyone else: East
side: Stay away if you value your safety.
 
I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror.
I hope the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies.
 
Thanks for reading my venting and discussing this issue.

Share

Hi Ben,
 
Thank you for this post and opening the discussion!
 
I, too, hope that Ray has a full recovery and wish the best for him and his
family.
 
I am still processing a full response, but wanted to add that the melee Ray
walked by has been reported as a gang-related fight between the East Side Boyz
and "Ham Crazy" gang
(http://minnesota.cbslocal.com​/2013​/08​/09​/st​-paul​-teen​-charged​-in​-beating​-that​-resulted​-in​-brain​-damage)
 
A battle between these two gangs is also blamed for the death of a 17 year-old
in mid-July on the East Side:
http://www.startribune.com​/local​/stpaul​/215853181​.html

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Ben,
 
You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head around
this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest outrage
was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility and
what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that large had formed on my
block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately -
and a third to half the houses on my street are vacant! At this point, given
the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own
neighborhood at night. What, if anything, are the police doing?? Why does
Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is going on over here?
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!

Rest of post

----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing. Two big questions came
to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and Ray,
deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the hell is going on with the youth
on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where were the police before and
during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were literally 300 feet from the
St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this
type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I would probably be more
aware and break it up before something bad happened. I think the police should
be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically happened on their
doorstep. Its sad because these type of stories and events read to everyone
else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full
recovery and his family can move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can
move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my
venting and discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT Our
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On the District Council, they have this listed.  I think we should all show up
and start a conversation about the events that have been happening lately.
 
 
 
 
 
 
MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting – the public is
encouraged to attend! Friday
August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue
Eastern District SPPD

Rest of post

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "<email obscured>" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
Ben,
 
You voiced my thoughts entirely.  I have hardly been able to get my head around
this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest outrage
was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility and
what, everyone was oblivious??  If a gang of kids that large had formed on my
block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately -
and a third to half the houses on my street are vacant!  At this point, given
the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own
neighborhood at night.  What, if anything, are the police doing??  Why does
Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is going on over here?
 
  Suzan Forsberg
    *Well behaved women rarely make history!
 
----- Original Message -----  From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>  To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org  Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC)  Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault    I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.    Two big questions
came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and
Ray, deserve some discussion on here :    1: What the hell is going on with the
youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting
people?
What if anything is being done about this?    2. Where w
ere the
police before and during this assault?    This pack of 30-50 youth were
literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE
HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I
would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad happened. I
think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically
happened on their doorstep.    Its sad because these type of stories and
events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety.
I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror.
I hope the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies.
Thanks for reading my venting and discussing this issue.      Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul  About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3  View full topic or
share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT  * Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy
  email n
ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
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Suzan Forsberg
Eastside, St Paul
About/contact Suzan  Forsberg:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
 
View full topic or share:
  http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
 
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Hey folks - I was up in that area doing E-Democracy doorknocking not too
long ago, and I saw a bunch of kids just having nothing to do. I think a
big part of it is that we've cut the youth programming and the rec centers
as well as the summer jobs programs that used to both keep the kids
occupied and give them some hope that the system had a place for them.
 
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:15 PM, <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Ben,
>
> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that
> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
> are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night. What, if anything,
> are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
> going on over here?
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just
> read the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha
> and Payne last week. (
>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)

Rest of post

> Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the
> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
> of 30-50 youth tormenting people? What if anything is being done about
> this? 2. Where were the
> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
> assault basically happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type
> of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you
> value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can
> move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well to
> end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my venting and
> discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
> About/contact Ben Greiling:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full
> topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT * Our
> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email n
> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Post:
> stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to comment.
> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
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> http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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Ben,
 
I have contacted our district legislator on numerous occasions to see if there
is anything put in motion to prevent or subdue gang violence in the East Side
neighborhoods to no avail. If anything, John Lesch (66B) does sit on the Public
Safety Committee and is most certainly not oblivious to the goings on. I think
it would be a good idea to voice these and all concerns about public safety to
Rep Lesch since he is in such standings with this type of community action on
the local government level. I will continue to do so anyway...
 
Sincerely,
 
J Samuel Clark
IT Support Technician
McNally Smith College of Music
m - (651) 246-2562
w - (651) 361-3436
 
On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:15 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
 
> Ben,
>
> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest
outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility
and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that large had formed on
my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately
- and a third to half the houses on my street are vacant! At this point, given
the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own
neighborhood at night. What, if anything, are the police doing?? Why does
Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is going on over here?
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing. Two big questions came
to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and Ray,
deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the hell is going on with the youth
on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where were the
> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE
HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I
would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad happened. I
think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically
happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type of stories and events
read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety. I hope
Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror. I hope
the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks
for reading my venting and discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's
Bluff, St Paul About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email n
> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Rest of post

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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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I wanted to add the link for the criminal complaint:
 
http://kstp.com​/kstpImages​/repository​/cs​/files​/Maiden​%20Issac​%208​_9​_13​-1​.pdf
 
The district office is located at Payne and Reaney. The fight spilled out of a
house at Preble and M'haha and ended up at Payne and M'haha.

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Your neighbor Ray's family is posting updates on his condition here:
 
http://www.caringbridge.org​/visit​/raywidstrand
 
They have a guestbook where you can leave a message:
http://www.caringbridge.org​/visit​/raywidstrand​/guestbook
 
 
If anyone hears of any benefits, vigils, etc. being held, please do
share with the forum.
 
Here are the recent updates:
 
 
Monday, August 12th - 8:16 a.m.
 
Written 5 hours ago
We ask that everyone keep Ray in your thoughts during the next few
days while the sedatives leave Ray's system. Ray will have a very
quiet next two days as his body heals.
 
A caring co-worker of Ray sent us a very sweet quote in a message the
other day and we would like to share that quote with all of you:
 
"It's often just enough to be with someone. I don't need to touch
them. Not even talk. A feeling passes between you both. The natural
force within each of us is that greatest healer of all."
 
Sunday, August 11th- 8:39 p.m.
 
Written 16 hours ago
Doctors have finally been able to start lowering the sedatives
tonight. This progress will go on for a few days; decreasing the level
of sedatives every 24 hours. Still stable, but in critical condition.
 
Saturday, August 10th- 6:30 p.m.
 
Written August 10, 2013 6:28pm
Ray is still in stable condition. He had a quiet day to rest and heal.
If his levels stay at the same level, tomorrow evening they will start
taking him off the medically induced coma.
 
 
Saturday, August 10th
 
Written August 10, 2013 12:07pm
Ray had another good night. Ray looks more like himself every day.
He's temperature has gone down since yesterday, which we will take as
a good sign. Both of his pupils reacted to light this morning; this is
a really positive sign! He's still stable and has been since Thursday
night.
 
 
Friday, August 9th - 10:33 a.m.
 
Written August 9, 2013 10:44am
Ray had another good night last night. He is still stable. Doctors
have noticed that his right pupil has decreased in size, which is a
positive sign that the brain pressure is decreasing on the right side
of his brain finally.
 
Thursday, August 8th, 2013
 
Written August 8, 2013 11:27am
Ray has been a very strong individual over the past couple days. He
has had two craniotomies-- this is to help relieve pressure from the
brain. Right now he is in a medically induced coma until Sunday.
Doctors are trying to keep him stable until then. Hopefully, we will
have more information Sunday afternoon/Monday morning. As of now, Ray
just needs to stay stable until the greatest danger of swelling has
passed.
 
We appreciate all of the thoughts, prayers and concerns for Ray during
this difficult time.

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John,
 
I agree with you about that point. Most often I see kids hanging out in droves
at the Salvation Army parking lot, ironically where the death of the 17 year
old individual being shot happened. I feel as if, and am willing to cite
connections that, the youth are extremely disconnected from positive influence
and positive extracurriculars that violence becomes an issue. Being that they
are teenagers, the SPPD is seen as a threat and it can be extremely difficult
to extinguish violence when the police are seen as the aggregators.
 
It is also evident through police reporting that these youth are displaced most
often by their home environments... one being that they will collaborate the
gang mentality in senior households. A group of kids will take over senior
citizen's dwelling knowing they cannot be displaced and therefore have freedom
to collude upon violence. I am citing the police report that was done on the
shooting of the 17 year old on Payne Lawson.
 
Sincerely,
 
J Samuel Clark
IT Support Technician
McNally Smith College of Music
m - (651) 246-2562
w - (651) 361-3436
 
On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:36 PM, John Slade <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Hey folks - I was up in that area doing E-Democracy doorknocking not too
> long ago, and I saw a bunch of kids just having nothing to do. I think a
> big part of it is that we've cut the youth programming and the rec centers
> as well as the summer jobs programs that used to both keep the kids
> occupied and give them some hope that the system had a place for them.
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:15 PM, <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
>> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
>> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
>> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that
>> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
>> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
>> are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
>> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night. What, if anything,
>> are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
>> going on over here?
>>
>> Suzan Forsberg
>> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
>> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just
>> read the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha
>> and Payne last week. (
>>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
>> Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
>> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
>> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
>> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
>> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
>> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the
>> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
>> of 30-50 youth tormenting people? What if anything is being done about
>> this? 2. Where were the
>> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
>> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
>> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
>> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
>> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
>> assault basically happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type
>> of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you
>> value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can
>> move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well to
>> end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my venting and
>> discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
>> About/contact Ben Greiling:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full
>> topic or share:
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> John Slade
> Dayton's Bluff, Saint Paul
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JDAI in action.....

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-----Original Message-----
From: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of J Samuel Clark
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:26 PM
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Ben,
 
I have contacted our district legislator on numerous occasions to see if there
is anything put in motion to prevent or subdue gang violence in the East Side
neighborhoods to no avail. If anything, John Lesch (66B) does sit on the Public
Safety Committee and is most certainly not oblivious to the goings on. I think
it would be a good idea to voice these and all concerns about public safety to
Rep Lesch since he is in such standings with this type of community action on
the local government level. I will continue to do so anyway...
 
Sincerely,
 
J Samuel Clark
IT Support Technician
McNally Smith College of Music
m - (651) 246-2562
w - (651) 361-3436
 
On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:15 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
 
> Ben,
>
> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest
outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility
and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that large had formed on
my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately
- and a third to half the houses on my street are vacant! At this point, given
the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own
neighborhood at night. What, if anything, are the police doing?? Why does
Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is going on over here?
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing. Two big questions came
to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and Ray,
deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the hell is going on with the youth
on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where were th
e
> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE
HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I
would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad happened. I
think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically
happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type of stories and events
read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety. I hope
Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror. I hope
the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks
for reading my venting and discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's
Bluff, St Paul About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email
n
> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
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John Clark
Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
About/contact J Samuel Clark:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4yQVizeZoz5BeGEqjIlku9
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/6eBUt6YCyg4qZUDeYwlogQ
 
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Thanks, Steven! I was hoping someone would post that information so we can all
show our support for Ray.
 
Before this incident happened, I was looking for contact information for the
SPPD gun/gang unit on their web page. I thought I'd send them an email with
questions, since officers I've asked questions of at District Council meeting
had only general answers. After sending my email to the Officer the site listed
as the unit's commander, I got an email back from him saying he'd left that
position 2 years ago but would be glad to speak with me on the telephone. He's
the Western District Commander now, and I haven't called him yet. I'd be glad
to report on our conversation in another thread. Maybe he can refer us to
officers working with gangs in our neighborhoods.
 
Also, much to my dismay, his email is still popping up as the gun/gang unit's
commander. They really need to keep things more updated!

Share

I emailed Commanders Jill McRae, Trish England and Todd Tessmer over the
weekend. Jill is out of the office, but hopefully I'll hear from someone.
 
I think that anyone that is able, should attend the community policing meeting
this Friday 9:30 am at the Eastern District PD, 722 Payne.

Rest of post

________________________________
From: Emily Kampa <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
Thanks, Steven! I was hoping someone would post that information so we can all
show our support for Ray.
 
Before this incident happened, I was looking for contact information for the
SPPD gun/gang unit on their web page. I thought I'd send them an email with
questions, since officers I've asked questions of at District Council meeting
had only general answers. After sending my email to the Officer the site listed
as the unit's commander, I got an email back from him saying he'd left that
position 2 years ago but would be glad to speak with me on the telephone. He's
the Western District Commander now, and I haven't called him yet. I'd be glad
to report on our conversation in another thread. Maybe he can refer us to
officers working with gangs in our neighborhoods.
 
Also, much to my dismay, his email is still popping up as the gun/gang unit's
commander. They really need to keep things more updated!
Emily Kampa
Dayton's Bluff, St. Paul
About/contact Emily Kampa:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3BjjTnMSp2hdosdyYkuAXG
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1RStEtNI2zX2iysMAAcVyk
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Nice work Emily, I hope others will be brought to justice as well.

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "Emily Kampa" <<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎12/‎2013 1:41 PM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I wanted to add the link for the criminal complaint:
 
http://kstp.com​/kstpImages​/repository​/cs​/files​/Maiden​%20Issac​%208​_9​_13​-1​.pdf
 
The district office is located at Payne and Reaney. The fight spilled out of a
house at Preble and M'haha and ended up at Payne and M'haha.
 
Emily Kampa
Dayton's Bluff, St. Paul
About/contact Emily Kampa:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3BjjTnMSp2hdosdyYkuAXG
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/F198YvqquTwBYBimWqLV9
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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We need to help the police by policing our community. How do you do that?
Report anything and everything that you witness that appears to be against the
law.

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "J Samuel Clark" <<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎12/‎2013 1:41 PM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Ben,
 
I have contacted our district legislator on numerous occasions to see if there
is anything put in motion to prevent or subdue gang violence in the East Side
neighborhoods to no avail. If anything, John Lesch (66B) does sit on the Public
Safety Committee and is most certainly not oblivious to the goings on. I think
it would be a good idea to voice these and all concerns about public safety to
Rep Lesch since he is in such standings with this type of community action on
the local government level. I will continue to do so anyway...
 
Sincerely,
 
J Samuel Clark
IT Support Technician
McNally Smith College of Music
m - (651) 246-2562
w - (651) 361-3436
 
On Aug 12, 2013, at 1:15 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
 
> Ben,
>
> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest
outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility
and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that large had formed on
my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately
- and a third to half the houses on my street are vacant! At this point, given
the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own
neighborhood at night. What, if anything, are the police doing?? Why does
Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is going on over here?
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing. Two big questions came
to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and Ray,
deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the hell is going on with the youth
on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where
were th
e
> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE
HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I
would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad happened. I
think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically
happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type of stories and events
read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety. I hope
Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror. I hope
the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks
for reading my venting and discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's
Bluff, St Paul About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democrac
y email
n
> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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John Clark
Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
About/contact J Samuel Clark:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4yQVizeZoz5BeGEqjIlku9
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/6eBUt6YCyg4qZUDeYwlogQ
 
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John good point. Kids today do not have the community resources that we had
years ago.

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "John Slade" <<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎12/‎2013 1:38 PM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Hey folks - I was up in that area doing E-Democracy doorknocking not too
long ago, and I saw a bunch of kids just having nothing to do. I think a
big part of it is that we've cut the youth programming and the rec centers
as well as the summer jobs programs that used to both keep the kids
occupied and give them some hope that the system had a place for them.
 
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:15 PM, <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Ben,
>
> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that
> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
> are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night. What, if anything,
> are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
> going on over here?
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just
> read the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha
> and Payne last week. (
>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
> Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the
> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
> of 30-50 youth tormenting people? What if anything is being done about
> this? 2. Where were the
> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
> assault basically happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type
> of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you
> value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can
> move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well to
> end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my venting and
> discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
> About/contact Ben Greiling:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full
> topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT * Our
> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email n
> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Post:
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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>
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John Slade
Dayton's Bluff, Saint Paul
About/contact John Slade:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5DTbsEHYNSYIexttiRGBMI
 
View full topic or share:
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Sarah - Indeed!
 
Not to lead with a negative, but I can only hope the police might have
something more positive, constructive, and helpful than they did with the basic
rah-rah-rah koombaya this neighborhood is really great! rhetoric they showed up
with for a hastily called community meeting held at AHLC several months back
when we had three shootings/killings in just a few days.
 
A dear friend of mine who happens to be a minister has said for years they
drive the trouble into this neighborhood so it's concentrated in one part of
the city. I used to tell him he was crazy, but these days I'm starting to
think maybe not so crazy. Just reading the weekly district police reports and
comparing the hard core issues to other parts of the city, some very close
geographically, seems to bear that out.
 
Summer is here, it brings them out, and how many rec centers were closed?
Trouble will always seek and find trouble.
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!

Rest of post

----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah G <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 18:29:50
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault On the District
Council, they have this listed. I think we should all show up and start a
conversation about the events that have been happening lately. MORNING:
Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting – the public is encouraged to
attend! Friday August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue Eastern District SPPD
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "<email obscured>" To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:15
PM Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault Ben, You voiced my thoughts
entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head around this recent event,
feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest outrage was the crowd
(gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility and what, everyone was
oblivious?? If a gang of kids that large had formed on my block, I can name at
least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately - and a third to half
the houses on my street are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent
events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night.
What, if anything, are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore
most of what is going on over here? Suzan Forsberg *Well behaved women
rarely make history! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing. Two big questions came
to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and Ray,
deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the hell is going on with the
youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting
people? What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where w ere the
police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE
HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I
would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad happened. I
think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically
happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type of stories and events
read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety. I hope
Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror. I hope
the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks
for reading my venting and discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's
Bluff, St Paul About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full topic or
share: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT * Our
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John that is the same point I was speaking to my mother about the other day . I
am newly graduated teen that lives breathes and interact with all these so all
( gang members ) smh . Sadly I am family members , bestfrends , childhood
frends etc with all of these young kids out here and I kno a lot of them wuldnt
be doing the tings they are doing if they had things to do . I know a local
reccreation center that is a center point to al of this is wilder and there
aren't any outdoor courts the city put thoes stupid exercise things there that
no one uses . I feel the city does know nor do for the community as they should
.
 
Derrick <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
>John good point. Kids today do not have the community resources that we had
years ago.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: "John Slade" <<email obscured>>
>Sent: ‎8/‎12/‎2013 1:38 PM
>To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
>Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
>Hey folks - I was up in that area doing E-Democracy doorknocking not too
>long ago, and I saw a bunch of kids just having nothing to do. I think a
>big part of it is that we've cut the youth programming and the rec centers
>as well as the summer jobs programs that used to both keep the kids
>occupied and give them some hope that the system had a place for them.
>
>On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 1:15 PM, <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> Ben,
>>
>> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
>> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
>> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
>> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that
>> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
>> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
>> are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
>> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night. What, if anything,
>> are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
>> going on over here?
>>
>> Suzan Forsberg
>> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
>> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just
>> read the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha
>> and Payne last week. (
>>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
>> Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
>> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
>> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
>> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
>> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
>> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the
>> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
>> of 30-50 youth tormenting people? What if anything is being done about
>> this? 2. Where were the
>> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
>> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
>> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
>> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
>> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
>> assault basically happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type
>> of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you
>> value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can
>> move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well to
>> end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my venting and
>> discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
>> About/contact Ben Greiling:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full
>> topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT * Our
>> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email n
>> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - -
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Post:
>> stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to comment.
>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
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>> Suzan Forsberg
>> Eastside, St Paul
>> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
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>> comment.
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>>
>
>John Slade
>Dayton's Bluff, Saint Paul
>About/contact John Slade:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5DTbsEHYNSYIexttiRGBMI
>
>View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/xevjxzVB06Jxp1ETbCZyS
>
>* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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>Derrick Minor
>Payne Phalen, St. Paul
>About/contact Derrick Minor:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/6PLkJu5IUXXXEmo4MWF7v5
>
>View full topic or share:
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Hello all,
 
Sorry to hear this accident, but I think that everyone needs each other's back.
I am new to the blocks..I know that these streets are not good place to hang
out.  The police needs to do something about..make every place safe..programs
for the youth...and prevent gang activites in the area.  Everyone should oppose
gangs in this area.
Thanks
 
Peace.

Rest of post

________________________________
From: "<email obscured>" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
 
 
Sarah - Indeed!
 
Not to lead with a negative, but I can only hope the police might have
something more positive, constructive, and helpful than they did with the basic
rah-rah-rah koombaya this neighborhood is really great! rhetoric they showed up
with for a hastily called community meeting held at AHLC several months back
when we had three shootings/killings in just a few days.
 
A dear friend of mine who happens to be a minister has said for years they
drive the trouble into this neighborhood so it's concentrated in one part of
the city.  I used to tell him he was crazy, but these days I'm starting to
think maybe not so crazy.  Just reading the weekly district police reports and
comparing the hard core issues to other parts of the city, some very close
geographically, seems to bear that out.
 
Summer is here, it brings them out, and how many rec centers were closed?
Trouble will always seek and find trouble.
 
  Suzan Forsberg
    *Well behaved women rarely make history!
 
----- Original Message -----  From: Sarah G <<email obscured>>  To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org  Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 18:29:50
-0000 (UTC)  Subject: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault    On the District
Council, they have this listed.  I think we should all show up and start a
conversation about the events that have been happening lately.
MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting – the public is
encouraged to attend! Friday  August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue  Eastern
District SPPD    ----- Forwarded Message -----  From: "<email obscured>"
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org  Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013
1:15 PM  Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault      Ben,    You voiced my
thoughts entirely.  I have hardly been able to get my head around this recent
event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest outrage was the
crowd
(gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility and what, everyone
was obli
vious??
  If a gang of kids that large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5
neighbors who would have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the
houses on my street are vacant!  At this point, given the multiple recent
events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night.
What, if anything, are the police doing??  Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore
most of what is going on over here?      Suzan Forsberg      *Well behaved
women rarely make history!        ----- Original Message -----  From: Ben
Greiling  To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org  Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
14:20:47 -0000 (UTC)  Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault    I just read the
article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last
week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because
  it is u
sually contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly
affect me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I
feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here :    1: What the hell is
going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50
youth tormenting people?  What if anything is being done about this?    2.
Where w  ere the  police before and during this assault?    This pack of 30-50
youth were literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district
headquarters. THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft
away from my house I would probably be more aware and break it up before
something bad happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this
near-fatal assault basically happened on their doorstep.    Its sad because
these type of stories and events read
to everyone else: East side: Stay awa
y if you
  value your safety.    I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can
move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well to end
these sort of tragedies.    Thanks for reading my venting and discussing this
issue.      Ben Greiling  Dayton's Bluff, St Paul  About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3  View full topic or
share:      http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT  * Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy    email n  ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
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Eastside, St Paul
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Odd that the Eastern District facebook page makes no mention of their local
street crime epidemic on their facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com​/saintpaulpolice​.easterndistrict and very little
mention is made on the citywide twitter feed: https://twitter.com/sppdpio
perhaps hoping it will go away while they post happy notes instead of
assembling necessary resources to confront criminal activity?
 
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:29:50 -0700
> From: <email obscured>
> Subject: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
>
> On the District Council, they have this listed. I think we should all show
up and start a conversation about the events that have been happening lately.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting the public is
encouraged to attend! Friday
> August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue
> Eastern District SPPD
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "<email obscured>" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
>
> Ben,
>
> You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the biggest
outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East Team facility
and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that large had formed on
my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would have called 911 immediately
- and a third to half the houses on my street are vacant! At this point, given
the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to be in, or drive through, my own
neighborhood at night. What, if anything, are the police doing?? Why does
Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is going on over here?
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:20:47
-0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read the article
about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and Payne last week.
(http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a certain
level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually contained within
the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect me. This random
violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing. Two big questions
came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical, but I feel they, and
Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the hell is going on with the
youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs of 30-50 youth tormenting
people?
> What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where w
> ere the
> police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters. THE
HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my house I
would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad happened. I
think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal assault basically
happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these type of stories and
events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if you value your safety.
I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family can move on from this terror.
I hope the East Side can move forward as well to end these sort of tragedies.
Thanks for reading my venting and discussing this issue. Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full topic or
share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT * Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy
> email n
> ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Rest of post

- - - - - - - - Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or
"Reply-to-All" to comment. Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or
"unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes) Forum Home:
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
http://OnlineGroups.Net
> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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comment.
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quotes)
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> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
> Sarah Geving
> Payne-Phalen, St Paul
> About/contact Sarah Geving:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/7AD36PQBeD57oOtduVM3JP
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5v89gUqXgZK074SrMsKwgV
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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In addition the St. Paul Eastern District Facebook page -
https://www.facebook.com​/saintpaulpolice​.easterndistrict -, D5 has a
safety page:
http://www.paynephalen.org​/safety​.html
 
While not on that page, this is from their calendar:
 
(Shared earlier)
MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting – the public
is encouraged to attend!
Friday
August 16, 2013
9:30 AM
722 Payne Avenue
Eastern District SPPD
 
(Not yet shared)
EVENING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting – the public
is encouraged to attend!
Wednesday
August 21, 2013
6:30 PM
722 Payne Avenue
Eastern District SPPD
 
For those who have attended these meetings before - how do they work?
What tips do have on how to get the most out of them?
 
Steven Clift - http://stevenclift.com
Executive Director - http://E-Democracy.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/democracy
Tel/Text: +1.612.234.7072

Share

I do think funding for activities for kids is nice, but is not the main
problem. It doesn't cost much money to have fun. For example: play some
pick up games at the parks, go swimming at Phalen, hang out at the library,
make forts, etc.
The main issue I see is the absence of positive role models and abundance
of negative ones. These issues are much harder to solve than organizing
after school activities. If these kids have broken homes to go to after an
organized activity, there may not be much benefit.
 
I am curious to hear from leaders within the african american community as
to their perspective on all of the gang activity and violence. What is
being done from within? Who is standing up to it? Who is making a
difference?
 
The police deserve some tough questions regarding this event as well. What
are they doing? What are they not doing?
 
I think we need a shake up to get some real change on the East Side. What
that is, I dont really know exactly... Lets keep the dialogue going.
 
 
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Robert Fehr <<email obscured>>wrote:
 
> Odd that the Eastern District facebook page makes no mention of their
> local street crime epidemic on their facebook page:
> https://www.facebook.com​/saintpaulpolice​.easterndistrict and very little
> mention is made on the citywide twitter feed: https://twitter.com/sppdpio
perhaps hoping it will go away while they post happy notes instead of
> assembling necessary resources to confront criminal activity?
>
> > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:29:50 -0700
> > From: <email obscured>
> > Subject: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> >
> > On the District Council, they have this listed. I think we should all
> show up and start a conversation about the events that have been happening
> lately.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting the public is
> encouraged to attend! Friday
> > August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue
> > Eastern District SPPD
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
> > From: "<email obscured>" <<email obscured>>
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> >
> >
> > Ben,
> >
> > You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that
> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
> are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night. What, if anything,
> are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
> going on over here?
> >
> > Suzan Forsberg
> > *Well behaved women rarely make history!
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read
> the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and
> Payne last week. (
>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)

Rest of post

> Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the
> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
> of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
> > What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where w
> > ere the
> > police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
> assault basically happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these
> type of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if
> you value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family
> can move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well
> to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my venting and
> discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
> About/contact Ben Greiling:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full topic
> or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT * Our
> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy
> > email n
> > ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - Post: <email obscured>
"Reply-to-All" to comment. Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or
> "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes) Forum Home:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Need help?
> http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
http://OnlineGroups.Net​<​;http​:​/​/onlinegroups​.net​/>
> > Suzan Forsberg
> > Eastside, St Paul
> > About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
> > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> http://OnlineGroups.Net <http://onlinegroups.net/>
> > Sarah Geving
> > Payne-Phalen, St Paul
> > About/contact Sarah Geving:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/7AD36PQBeD57oOtduVM3JP
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5v89gUqXgZK074SrMsKwgV
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
> > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> http://OnlineGroups.Net <http://onlinegroups.net/>
>
> Robert Fehr
> East Side, Saint Paul
> About/contact Robert Fehr:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePto4T722AnUUISf6RKAK
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3B1HBEQd5jObNCL2e96oh
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> comment.
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Sorry, this post is hidden. The reason that Steven Clift gave for hiding the post is as follows.

Contained private message forwarded publicly.

If you think you should be able to see the post email support and we will see what we can do to help.

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I am aware of my block and I call police to help when volume of voices start
rising because things can escalate quickly. I think we need to do our part and
not wait to call the peace keepers. It is much better to have patrol drive by
and send a dozen youth or young adults home even if its innocent fun then to
have it become dangerous. (You can remain anonymous, if you are worried)
It is so sad to think of this man's experience and also the youth that died
recently.
I also pray for my neighbors!
Blessings! Sherry
 
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 23:44:01
To: <stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
 
 
I do think funding for activities for kids is nice, but is not the main
problem. It doesn't cost much money to have fun. For example: play some
pick up games at the parks, go swimming at Phalen, hang out at the library,
make forts, etc.
The main issue I see is the absence of positive role models and abundance
of negative ones. These issues are much harder to solve than organizing
after school activities. If these kids have broken homes to go to after an
organized activity, there may not be much benefit.
 
I am curious to hear from leaders within the african american community as
to their perspective on all of the gang activity and violence. What is
being done from within? Who is standing up to it? Who is making a
difference?
 
The police deserve some tough questions regarding this event as well. What
are they doing? What are they not doing?
 
I think we need a shake up to get some real change on the East Side. What
that is, I dont really know exactly... Lets keep the dialogue going.
 
 
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Robert Fehr <<email obscured>>wrote:
 
> Odd that the Eastern District facebook page makes no mention of their
> local street crime epidemic on their facebook page:
> https://www.facebook.com​/saintpaulpolice​.easterndistrict and very little
> mention is made on the citywide twitter feed: https://twitter.com/sppdpio
perhaps hoping it will go away while they post happy notes instead of
> assembling necessary resources to confront criminal activity?
>
> > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:29:50 -0700
> > From: <email obscured>
> > Subject: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
>  >
> > On the District Council, they have this listed.  I think we should all
> show up and start a conversation about the events that have been happening
> lately.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting  the public is
> encouraged to attend! Friday
> > August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue
> > Eastern District SPPD
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
> > From: "<email obscured>" <<email obscured>>
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> >
> >
> > Ben,
> >
> > You voiced my thoughts entirely.  I have hardly been able to get my head
> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious??  If a gang of kids that
> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
> are vacant!  At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night.  What, if anything,
> are the police doing??  Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
> going on over here?
> >
> >    Suzan Forsberg
> >     *Well behaved women rarely make history!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----  From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
>  To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org  Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC)  Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault    I just read
> the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and
> Payne last week. (
>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
>    Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here :    1: What the
> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
> of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
> >  What if anything is being done about this?    2. Where w
> > ere the
> > police before and during this assault?    This pack of 30-50 youth were
> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
> assault basically happened on their doorstep.     Its sad because these
> type of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if
> you value your safety.     I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family
> can move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well
> to end these sort of tragedies.     Thanks for reading my venting and
> discussing this issue.      Ben Greiling  Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
>  About/contact Ben Greiling:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3  View full topic
> or share:
> >  http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3oZkiOLNuO4NyEqbhWrQBT  * Our
> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy
> >   email n
> > ewsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061  - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - -     Post: <email obscured>
"Reply-to-All" to comment.    Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or
> "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)     Forum Home:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen  - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -   Need help?
> http://e-democracy.org/support  Hosting:
http://OnlineGroups.Net​&​;lt​;http​:​/​/onlinegroups​.net​/>
> > Suzan Forsberg
> > Eastside, St Paul
> > About/contact Suzan  Forsberg:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> >   http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/NP0s8LJ1MM3qtUl2GAlIo
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
> >     http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >   Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
> >   Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> >   Forum Home:  http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support  Hosting:
> http://OnlineGroups.Net <http://onlinegroups.net/>
> > Sarah Geving
> > Payne-Phalen, St Paul
> > About/contact Sarah Geving:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/7AD36PQBeD57oOtduVM3JP
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> >   http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5v89gUqXgZK074SrMsKwgV
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
> >     http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >   Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
> >   Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> >   Forum Home:  http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support  Hosting:
> http://OnlineGroups.Net <http://onlinegroups.net/>
>
> Robert Fehr
> East Side, Saint Paul
> About/contact Robert Fehr:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePto4T722AnUUISf6RKAK
>
> View full topic or share:
>   http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3B1HBEQd5jObNCL2e96oh
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>     http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>   Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
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> quotes)
>   Forum Home:  http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
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> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support  Hosting:
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Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3
 
View full topic or share:
  http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/4M2rQ3cJcCSR1cjhdrJyLr
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
    http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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amen, well put.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherry Mosner" <<email obscured>>
To: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>,
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 12:26:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
 
I am aware of my block and I call police to help when volume of voices start
rising because things can escalate quickly. I think we need to do our part and
not wait to call the peace keepers. It is much better to have patrol drive by
and send a dozen youth or young adults home even if its innocent fun then to
have it become dangerous. (You can remain anonymous, if you are worried)
It is so sad to think of this man's experience and also the youth that died
recently.
I also pray for my neighbors!
Blessings! Sherry
 
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 23:44:01
To: <stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
 
 
I do think funding for activities for kids is nice, but is not the main
problem. It doesn't cost much money to have fun. For example: play some
pick up games at the parks, go swimming at Phalen, hang out at the library,
make forts, etc.
The main issue I see is the absence of positive role models and abundance
of negative ones. These issues are much harder to solve than organizing
after school activities. If these kids have broken homes to go to after an
organized activity, there may not be much benefit.
 
I am curious to hear from leaders within the african american community as
to their perspective on all of the gang activity and violence. What is
being done from within? Who is standing up to it? Who is making a
difference?
 
The police deserve some tough questions regarding this event as well. What
are they doing? What are they not doing?
 
I think we need a shake up to get some real change on the East Side. What
that is, I dont really know exactly... Lets keep the dialogue going.
 
 
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Robert Fehr <<email obscured>>wrote:
 
> Odd that the Eastern District facebook page makes no mention of their
> local street crime epidemic on their facebook page:
> https://www.facebook.com​/saintpaulpolice​.easterndistrict and very little
> mention is made on the citywide twitter feed: https://twitter.com/sppdpio
perhaps hoping it will go away while they post happy notes instead of
> assembling necessary resources to confront criminal activity?
>
> > Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:29:50 -0700
> > From: <email obscured>
> > Subject: [Payne Phalen] Fw: Recent Assault
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> >
> > On the District Council, they have this listed. I think we should all
> show up and start a conversation about the events that have been happening
> lately.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MORNING: Eastern District SPPD Community Policing meeting the public is
> encouraged to attend! Friday
> > August 16, 2013 9:30 AM 722 Payne Avenue
> > Eastern District SPPD
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
> > From: "<email obscured>" <<email obscured>>
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 1:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> >
> >
> > Ben,
> >
> > You voiced my thoughts entirely. I have hardly been able to get my head
> around this recent event, feel for teh victim and his family, and the
> biggest outrage was the crowd (gang) had gathered THAT CLOSE to the East
> Team facility and what, everyone was oblivious?? If a gang of kids that
> large had formed on my block, I can name at least 5 neighbors who would
> have called 911 immediately - and a third to half the houses on my street
> are vacant! At this point, given the multiple recent events, I'm afraid to
> be in, or drive through, my own neighborhood at night. What, if anything,
> are the police doing?? Why does Chief Smith seem to ignore most of what is
> going on over here?
> >
> > Suzan Forsberg
> > *Well behaved women rarely make history!
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Greiling <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Mon, 12 Aug 2013
> 14:20:47 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I just read
> the article about the young man who was brutally beat near Minnehaha and
> Payne last week. (
>
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23837611​/st​-paul​-man​-attacked​-during​-apparent​-gang​-fight)
> Living on the East side, one seems, or at least I have, accepted a
> certain level of violence, unfortunately. Mostly because it is usually
> contained within the disputing people (gangs) and doesn't directly affect
> me. This random violence on a guy out for a walk is a different thing.
> Two big questions came to me about this incident. They may be rhetorical,
> but I feel they, and Ray, deserve some discussion on here : 1: What the
> hell is going on with the youth on the east side? Seriously, roaming packs
> of 30-50 youth tormenting people?
> > What if anything is being done about this? 2. Where w
> > ere the
> > police before and during this assault? This pack of 30-50 youth were
> literally 300 feet from the St Paul Police's Eastern district headquarters.
> THE HEADQUARTERS!!! If this type of thing was occurring 300 ft away from my
> house I would probably be more aware and break it up before something bad
> happened. I think the police should be embarrassed that this near-fatal
> assault basically happened on their doorstep. Its sad because these
> type of stories and events read to everyone else: East side: Stay away if
> you value your safety. I hope Ray W. has a full recovery and his family
> can move on from this terror. I hope the East Side can move forward as well
> to end these sort of tragedies. Thanks for reading my venting and
> discussing this issue. Ben Greiling Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
> About/contact Ben Greiling:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3 View full topic
> or share:
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> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy
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> East Side, Saint Paul
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Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
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With special meeting on Thursday - http://bit.ly/crimemeeting - we can use
this online forum to share questions for the police, the county attorney
and others. I've sent the link to this topic to my main police contacts.
 
Of course unless someone asks these questions, they might not come up at
the meeting. We have found pre-meeting sharing of *questions* useful in
other neighborhoods after a major crime incident and community. (BTW - our
citywide forum is better suited for getting more political on related
issues - http://e-democracy.org/stpaul )
 
I have some very specific questions related to the incident:
 
1. What time frame was the party happening? Was 911 called before the
attack?
 
2. Who's apartment unit was the party in? Was this a repeat party location?
(If a repeat, had the landlord taken any action?)
 
3. Was alcohol being consumed by minors at the party? If yes, who bought
it and where? Were they using a fake IDs or not carded? Other substances?
 
4. What was the beef between the two girls (in the police report) that sent
the party outside to watch a fight? Are there any youth conflict services
available in St. Paul via telephone or otherwise?
 
5. How many people kicked/hit the victim? Of the juveniles, do any if them
have prior offenses? What about the named adult? What schools do or did the
attackers attend? What did the schools do to intervene in past incidents if
any?
 
6. How large are these (youth?) gangs and what are their primary criminal
activities? (Who is buying what from them to keep them in business?)
 
7. This is more a question for the media on the back story perhaps - tell
us more about how these kids were raised, how violence has become
acceptable, what area families need in terms of help to keep their children
away from this swirl of violence, etc.
 
8. On related note there are some heros coming forward as witnesses, if you
read the police report it is clear that witnesses there stood up
immediately and said this crossed a line. There was no wall of silence for
some. What can we do to support and protect the witnesses? Has there been
any witness intimidation occurring and what can we expect the police and
community institutions to do to keep them safe?
 
What questions would you like to add??
 
Steven Clift
E-Democracy
 
P.S. As a non-resident, privileged to be virtually part of your neighbors
forum, I'll try to help a bit, but ultimately I am just writing some words.
If we are being helpful, let us know ... if not let us know as well.

Share

Bravo, Steven, well done! Thanks for the starter -
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!

Rest of post

----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Clift <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 16:18:34
-0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault With special meeting on
Thursday - http://bit.ly/crimemeeting - we can use this online forum to share
questions for the police, the county attorney and others. I've sent the link
to this topic to my main police contacts. Of course unless someone asks these
questions, they might not come up at the meeting. We have found pre-meeting
sharing of *questions* useful in other neighborhoods after a major crime
incident and community. (BTW - our citywide forum is better suited for getting
more political on related issues - http://e-democracy.org/stpaul ) I have some
very specific questions related to the incident: 1. What time frame was the
party happening? Was 911 called before the attack? 2. Who's apartment unit was
the party in? Was this a repeat party location? (If a repeat, had the landlord
taken any action?) 3. Was alcohol being consumed by minors at the party? If
yes, who bought it and where? Were they using a fake IDs or not carded? Other
substances? 4. What was the beef between the two girls (in the police report)
that sent the party outside to watch a fight? Are there any youth conflict
services available in St. Paul via telephone or otherwise? 5. How many people
kicked/hit the victim? Of the juveniles, do any if them have prior offenses?
What about the named adult? What schools do or did the attackers attend? What
did the schools do to intervene in past incidents if any? 6. How large are
these (youth?) gangs and what are their primary criminal activities? (Who is
buying what from them to keep them in business?) 7. This is more a question for
the media on the back story perhaps - tell us more about how these kids were
raised, how violence has become acceptable, what area families need in terms
of help to keep their children away from this swirl of violence, etc. 8. On
related note there are some heros coming forward as witnesses, if you read the
police report it is clear that witnesses there stood up immediately and said
this crossed a line. There was no wall of silence for some. What can we do to
support and protect the witnesses? Has there been any witness intimidation
occurring and what can we expect the police and community institutions to do
to keep them safe? What questions would you like to add?? Steven Clift
E-Democracy P.S. As a non-resident, privileged to be virtually part of your
neighbors forum, I'll try to help a bit, but ultimately I am just writing some
words. If we are being helpful, let us know ... if not let us know as well.
Steven Clift Ericsson, Minneapolis About/contact Steven Clift:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/stevenclift full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/60D75omPtXbr1JaIA3PhCT Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
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I think this has been very helpful and thank you. Our quality of life over here
is zelch. I'm afraid to be outside after 8 pm, how sad is that. My customers
are afraid to come to my office to pick up their orders, sad.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Clift" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:18:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
With special meeting on Thursday - http://bit.ly/crimemeeting - we can use
this online forum to share questions for the police, the county attorney
and others. I've sent the link to this topic to my main police contacts.
 
Of course unless someone asks these questions, they might not come up at
the meeting. We have found pre-meeting sharing of *questions* useful in
other neighborhoods after a major crime incident and community. (BTW - our
citywide forum is better suited for getting more political on related
issues - http://e-democracy.org/stpaul )
 
I have some very specific questions related to the incident:
 
1. What time frame was the party happening? Was 911 called before the
attack?
 
2. Who's apartment unit was the party in? Was this a repeat party location?
(If a repeat, had the landlord taken any action?)
 
3. Was alcohol being consumed by minors at the party? If yes, who bought
it and where? Were they using a fake IDs or not carded? Other substances?
 
4. What was the beef between the two girls (in the police report) that sent
the party outside to watch a fight? Are there any youth conflict services
available in St. Paul via telephone or otherwise?
 
5. How many people kicked/hit the victim? Of the juveniles, do any if them
have prior offenses? What about the named adult? What schools do or did the
attackers attend? What did the schools do to intervene in past incidents if
any?
 
6. How large are these (youth?) gangs and what are their primary criminal
activities? (Who is buying what from them to keep them in business?)
 
7. This is more a question for the media on the back story perhaps - tell
us more about how these kids were raised, how violence has become
acceptable, what area families need in terms of help to keep their children
away from this swirl of violence, etc.
 
8. On related note there are some heros coming forward as witnesses, if you
read the police report it is clear that witnesses there stood up
immediately and said this crossed a line. There was no wall of silence for
some. What can we do to support and protect the witnesses? Has there been
any witness intimidation occurring and what can we expect the police and
community institutions to do to keep them safe?
 
What questions would you like to add??
 
Steven Clift
E-Democracy
 
P.S. As a non-resident, privileged to be virtually part of your neighbors
forum, I'll try to help a bit, but ultimately I am just writing some words.
If we are being helpful, let us know ... if not let us know as well.
 
Steven Clift
Ericsson, Minneapolis
About/contact Steven Clift: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/stevenclift
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/60D75omPtXbr1JaIA3PhCT
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Just heard back from Rep Lesch:
 
Mr. Clark. Thank you for your note. When you first e-mailed me, I was up in
the boundary waters with my daughter. The four days after I returned were
spent recovering and getting ready for my National Guard drill weekend (this
past weekend), during which I was unavailable and during which Mr. Widstrand
was brutally beaten. I want to assure you that I am listening. I was advised
of this tragedy, and I have drafted a letter to County Attorney John Choi,
requesting that he use a tool that I passed in 2007, the Civil Gang Injunction,
to prevent the perpetrators from infecting our neighborhoods any further. I
will await further facts in the case to come to light before I propose other
measures. Suffice it to say that I am deeply troubled by this senseless
violence, and am committed to finding ways to address it at the local level
until the legislature is in session this coming February whereupon we could
consider broader statewide policy changes
 
Thought the forum would like to read this... John is listening.

Share

Just heard back from Rep Lesch:
 
Mr. Clark. Thank you for your note. When you first e-mailed me, I was up in
the boundary waters with my daughter. The four days after I returned were
spent recovering and getting ready for my National Guard drill weekend (this
past weekend), during which I was unavailable and during which Mr. Widstrand
was brutally beaten. I want to assure you that I am listening. I was advised
of this tragedy, and I have drafted a letter to County Attorney John Choi,
requesting that he use a tool that I passed in 2007, the Civil Gang Injunction,
to prevent the perpetrators from infecting our neighborhoods any further. I
will await further facts in the case to come to light before I propose other
measures. Suffice it to say that I am deeply troubled by this senseless
violence, and am committed to finding ways to address it at the local level
until the legislature is in session this coming February whereupon we could
consider broader statewide policy changes
 
Thought the forum would like to read this... John is listening.

Share

But will he attend the Thursday meeting?
On 8/13/2013 11:56 AM, J Samuel Clark wrote:
> Just heard back from Rep Lesch:
>
> Mr. Clark. Thank you for your note. When you first e-mailed me, I was up in
the boundary waters with my daughter. The four days after I returned were
spent recovering and getting ready for my National Guard drill weekend (this
past weekend), during which I was unavailable and during which Mr. Widstrand
was brutally beaten. I want to assure you that I am listening. I was advised
of this tragedy, and I have drafted a letter to County Attorney John Choi,
requesting that he use a tool that I passed in 2007, the Civil Gang Injunction,
to prevent the perpetrators from infecting our neighborhoods any further. I
will await further facts in the case to come to light before I propose other
measures. Suffice it to say that I am deeply troubled by this senseless
violence, and am committed to finding ways to address it at the local level
until the legislature is in session this coming February whereupon we could
consider broader statewide policy changes
>
> Thought the forum would like to read this... John is listening.
>
> John Clark
> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> About/contact J Samuel Clark:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4yQVizeZoz5BeGEqjIlku9
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/43HKe85aP5MWg08o8H5WSi
>
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> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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Steven, many of your question although valid are acceptable under data privacy
laws. You will never be able to find out what prior incidents these young
people were involved in, in school unless a police report was filed. In
addition the beating did not take place on the landlords property therefore the
tenant landlord/ tenant is nit responsible. Secondly you would have a hard
time trying to prove that the renter/owner of the property provided party goers
with alcohol. The beef between to two girls is inconsequential the assault on
the gentleman had little to do with it. There are no reports linking him to the
part or the party goers. It sounds to like it was a mob mentality, they saw a
white man who was passing by or perhaps trying to break it up and they turned
on him.
 
Furthermore, I don't think you will find everyone who participated in the
beating, with that many people and with it being dark your not going to too
many people who have the same story and who will identify everyone who wad
involved. I think our questions and concerns need to be focused on preventive
measures.

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "Steven Clift" <<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎13/‎2013 11:19 AM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
With special meeting on Thursday - http://bit.ly/crimemeeting - we can use
this online forum to share questions for the police, the county attorney
and others. I've sent the link to this topic to my main police contacts.
 
Of course unless someone asks these questions, they might not come up at
the meeting. We have found pre-meeting sharing of *questions* useful in
other neighborhoods after a major crime incident and community. (BTW - our
citywide forum is better suited for getting more political on related
issues - http://e-democracy.org/stpaul )
 
I have some very specific questions related to the incident:
 
1. What time frame was the party happening? Was 911 called before the
attack?
 
2. Who's apartment unit was the party in? Was this a repeat party location?
(If a repeat, had the landlord taken any action?)
 
3. Was alcohol being consumed by minors at the party? If yes, who bought
it and where? Were they using a fake IDs or not carded? Other substances?
 
4. What was the beef between the two girls (in the police report) that sent
the party outside to watch a fight? Are there any youth conflict services
available in St. Paul via telephone or otherwise?
 
5. How many people kicked/hit the victim? Of the juveniles, do any if them
have prior offenses? What about the named adult? What schools do or did the
attackers attend? What did the schools do to intervene in past incidents if
any?
 
6. How large are these (youth?) gangs and what are their primary criminal
activities? (Who is buying what from them to keep them in business?)
 
7. This is more a question for the media on the back story perhaps - tell
us more about how these kids were raised, how violence has become
acceptable, what area families need in terms of help to keep their children
away from this swirl of violence, etc.
 
8. On related note there are some heros coming forward as witnesses, if you
read the police report it is clear that witnesses there stood up
immediately and said this crossed a line. There was no wall of silence for
some. What can we do to support and protect the witnesses? Has there been
any witness intimidation occurring and what can we expect the police and
community institutions to do to keep them safe?
 
What questions would you like to add??
 
Steven Clift
E-Democracy
 
P.S. As a non-resident, privileged to be virtually part of your neighbors
forum, I'll try to help a bit, but ultimately I am just writing some words.
If we are being helpful, let us know ... if not let us know as well.
 
Steven Clift
Ericsson, Minneapolis
About/contact Steven Clift: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/stevenclift
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/60D75omPtXbr1JaIA3PhCT
 
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Thank you Steven Clift for posting some questions for us to think about &
possibly ask at the meeting. I know they can't all be answered, but as a group
they are certainly things to think about. As a homeowner & a parent, I need to
feel safe in my neighborhood. With the recent murder and now this brutal
beating, the crimes keep getting closer and closer to my 'home base'. I want
to do whatever I can to make sure I can be safe. Moving out is not an option,
I LOVE my neighborhood and the friends I have made in my 13 years of being
here. I will definitely be at the meeting on Thursday with my list of
questions and concerned. Thanks again Steve!

Share

Ms. Anderson:
 
No, I will not be at the Thursday meeting. I am a Minnesota Delegate to the
National Conference of State Legislatures and will be here until Thursday. I
have asked Jay Xiong, from my office, to be there and report back to me.
 
John Lesch
State Representative

Share

Hello Forum members, this is Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader for
e-democracy and long time community activist.
to Ben,
I read your question regarding what is the African American Community doing or
how are we responding to the gang issue that seems to be on the fast rise
within this neighborhood.
Well, I used to live in the area aboout a year ago and was on the council. I
was one of I think two African Americans on the council. The unfortunate
reality is that there are not many "Leaders" as you would think in the
neighborhood. Most of us are within the Summit U area.
I have offered my assistance to address this issue and will be making some
personal calls to the Ramsey County Attorney and the City Council Memvber (Amy)
to see what can be considered and discussed regarding this all important issue
and will be in attendance at the called meeting on this Thursday.
 
I would also challenge the broader community to not categorize this as an
African American leadership issue but as a neighborhood and community issue. It
will take ALL of US to change the minds of the many and to help the few.
 
RevDev

Share

I agree, and thank you for coming to the meeting, your ideas and help would be
welcome.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:26:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Hello Forum members, this is Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader for
e-democracy and long time community activist.
to Ben,
I read your question regarding what is the African American Community doing or
how are we responding to the gang issue that seems to be on the fast rise
within this neighborhood.
Well, I used to live in the area aboout a year ago and was on the council. I
was one of I think two African Americans on the council. The unfortunate
reality is that there are not many "Leaders" as you would think in the
neighborhood. Most of us are within the Summit U area.
I have offered my assistance to address this issue and will be making some
personal calls to the Ramsey County Attorney and the City Council Memvber (Amy)
to see what can be considered and discussed regarding this all important issue
and will be in attendance at the called meeting on this Thursday.
 
I would also challenge the broader community to not categorize this as an
African American leadership issue but as a neighborhood and community issue. It
will take ALL of US to change the minds of the many and to help the few.
 
RevDev
 
Pastor Devin Miller
Saint Paul, Saint Paul
About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/6Qsq2RTMYf62CCLynBHBmu
 
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http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Bad timing Mr. Lesch, your city needs you now. I think you can delay that trip
a few hours.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lesch" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Ms. Anderson:
 
No, I will not be at the Thursday meeting. I am a Minnesota Delegate to the
National Conference of State Legislatures and will be here until Thursday. I
have asked Jay Xiong, from my office, to be there and report back to me.
 
John Lesch
State Representative
 
John Lesch
 
About/contact John Lesch: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/johnlesch
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/6YuhAOw5baOQixRhChxZJS
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Hello family.
 
How many plan on attending the meeting tomorrow at Arlington Hills Church?
What questions do you have?
What are YOU willing to do to make your neighborhood a better safer place?
 
Lets engage!!
 
RevDev

Share

Yes, any more questions? (That you for the compliments on first list.)
 
The more put out in the public domain, the more prepared those answering the
questions might be. (Versus leaders saying, we didn't anticipate that question,
we will have to look into that and get back later ... obviously with criminal
investigations and juveniles involved there are limits on what can be shared
when if at all.)
 
Listening to what people are saying here, rec center hours is a clear area of
concern. It is symptomatic of our government/community willingness to invest in
our kids outside of the school environment.
 
Some other questions someone might ask our leaders:
 
How are open hours at our city rec centers allocated?
 
Is there an official formula that takes into fact the number of youth in the
area when determining hours? (Payne Phalen in the 2010 census had 33% under 18
of over 30,000 residents. Highland Park for example has 19% under 18 with
24,000 residents. It could be the East Side in aggregate has more open rec
hours per capita or per youth ... I have no idea, but I wonder if someone has
looked at this?)
 
Are X leaders willing to start a rapid review of adjusting rec center hours in
light of growing youth violence as one preventative option?
 
Key is asking questions that build a commitment for action by our city leaders
that folks in the local community have as a priority.
 
On a related note, I thought Jaysa Jiles' -
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/post​/1UKRLW9aOqsEpEyf2C1Nid - note was really
important. So another question ...
 
How will the community quickly gather input directly from youth in our area?
 
How will this input be shared with everyone so it impact the community
response?
 
(I wonder about a simple text messaging survey or other short question online
survey of Facebook or even use of a Twitter hashtag for a week. If anyone wants
to lead anything here, we can provide some technical advice and promotion
assistance. The key is that the input actually needs to be shared properly and
read by decision-makers.)
 
FYI - Here are the questions sent before:
 
With special meeting on Thursday - http://bit.ly/crimemeeting - we can use
this online forum to share questions for the police, the county attorney
and others. I've sent the link to this topic to my main police contacts.
 
Of course unless someone asks these questions, they might not come up at
the meeting. We have found pre-meeting sharing of *questions* useful in
other neighborhoods after a major crime incident and community. (BTW - our
citywide forum is better suited for getting more political on related
issues - http://e-democracy.org/stpaul )
 
I have some very specific questions related to the incident:
 
1. What time frame was the party happening? Was 911 called before the
attack?
 
2. Who's apartment unit was the party in? Was this a repeat party location?
(If a repeat, had the landlord taken any action?)
 
3. Was alcohol being consumed by minors at the party? If yes, who bought
it and where? Were they using a fake IDs or not carded? Other substances?
 
4. What was the beef between the two girls (in the police report) that sent
the party outside to watch a fight? Are there any youth conflict services
available in St. Paul via telephone or otherwise?
 
5. How many people kicked/hit the victim? Of the juveniles, do any if them
have prior offenses? What about the named adult? What schools do or did the
attackers attend? What did the schools do to intervene in past incidents if
any?
 
6. How large are these (youth?) gangs and what are their primary criminal
activities? (Who is buying what from them to keep them in business?)
 
7. This is more a question for the media on the back story perhaps - tell
us more about how these kids were raised, how violence has become
acceptable, what area families need in terms of help to keep their children
away from this swirl of violence, etc.
 
8. On related note there are some heros coming forward as witnesses, if you
read the police report it is clear that witnesses there stood up
immediately and said this crossed a line. There was no wall of silence for
some. What can we do to support and protect the witnesses? Has there been
any witness intimidation occurring and what can we expect the police and
community institutions to do to keep them safe?
 
What questions would you like to add??
 
Steven Clift
E-Democracy
 
P.S. As a non-resident, privileged to be virtually part of your neighbors
forum, I'll try to help a bit, but ultimately I am just writing some words.
If we are being helpful, let us know ... if not let us know as well.

Share

I am definitely going to the meeting tonight. I am a resident of the lower
east side and have been concerned for a while now with the escalation of what I
am seeing happen in my neighborhood. I cannot wait to both speak about what I
see and listen to what some of the solutions might be. I love where I live, I
love the diversity and absolutely enjoy this area. I just don't like feeling
scared or having my 8 year old ask me to avoid driving up our street because he
doesn't like to see what is happening on a daily basis. Nobody should live in
fear. They sure don't have this type of environment in more 'expensive'
neighborhoods, why is it happening here?
 
One question I do want an answer to is how can there be such a high
concentration of rental homes/units in this area? I am all for affordable
housing & feel everyone has the right to live where they want. But I see house
after house in such poor shape and NO ONE deserves to live in squalor because
that is all they can afford. There are too many landlords that will rent to
anyone as long as they get the rent paid. That really isn't fair to the
neighborhood.
 
Hope to see everyone tonight!!

Share

I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city officials
are paying attention to this situation and taking some action. I also
appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that this problem
be dealt with holistically.
 
The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing holding us
back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by some percentage
of unsavory people. It's high time that City government paid more attention to
quality of life issues on the East Side and helped us provide a community that
is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for business."
 
All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but big
crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect the St.
Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts with
enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass, and
curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why
roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or congregating in
parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A better quality of life for
all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of these basic laws.
 
Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing the
laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the police been
called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the books? If this
is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with and the property
closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance properties in our
neighborhoods.
 
Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known trouble
spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need a strong law
enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's get the cops out
of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging with the community. If
someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop them, talk to them, tell
them that the community is watching, tell them there will be consequence to
violations of the law. I want the police visibly patrolling our neighborhoods,
and I want to know that they will take care of the small problems so that the
big ones don't arise. As neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and
people on our streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those
calls.
 
We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want safe
streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach are louder
and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most livable city"
sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the way to the top if
necessary.
 
That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting tonight.

Share

You hit the nail on the head! I'm glad you are coming tonight. We have to focus
on the crime and the troubled houses and I think that's where our concern lies.
No kid should be afraid to go out and play, nor should people be afraid to work
in this area.
 
 
We have to make sure at this meeting that they don't push their agenda on us,
it's OUR meeting and they need to listen to our concerns. So glad you're
coming.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danette Allrich" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 9:22:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I am definitely going to the meeting tonight. I am a resident of the lower east
side and have been concerned for a while now with the escalation of what I am
seeing happen in my neighborhood. I cannot wait to both speak about what I see
and listen to what some of the solutions might be. I love where I live, I love
the diversity and absolutely enjoy this area. I just don't like feeling scared
or having my 8 year old ask me to avoid driving up our street because he
doesn't like to see what is happening on a daily basis. Nobody should live in
fear. They sure don't have this type of environment in more 'expensive'
neighborhoods, why is it happening here?
 
One question I do want an answer to is how can there be such a high
concentration of rental homes/units in this area? I am all for affordable
housing & feel everyone has the right to live where they want. But I see house
after house in such poor shape and NO ONE deserves to live in squalor because
that is all they can afford. There are too many landlords that will rent to
anyone as long as they get the rent paid. That really isn't fair to the
neighborhood.
 
Hope to see everyone tonight!!
 
Danette Allrich
Westminster/Case, Saint Paul
About/contact Danette Allrich:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/2f4Bh5KQ4fcAsqfOPED9bq
 
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http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Luke,
 
 
I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions. Keep
in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With the liberal
judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and are out before
the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their moral is low. They
need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the upper management. We need
the city officials to stand up and stop coddling these hoodlums.
 
 
1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken to
Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could put
another officer on the east side.
 
 
2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by Internal
Affairs.
 
 
3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
 
 
This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or Grand Ave.
 
 
Stand up and be heard.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city officials
are paying attention to this situation and taking some action. I also
appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that this problem
be dealt with holistically.
 
The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing holding us
back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by some percentage
of unsavory people. It's high time that City government paid more attention to
quality of life issues on the East Side and helped us provide a community that
is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for business."
 
All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but big
crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect the St.
Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts with
enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass, and
curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why
roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or congregating in
parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A better quality of life for
all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of these basic laws.
 
Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing the
laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the police been
called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the books? If this
is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with and the property
closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance properties in our
neighborhoods.
 
Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known trouble
spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need a strong law
enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's get the cops out
of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging with the community. If
someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop them, talk to them, tell
them that the community is watching, tell them there will be consequence to
violations of the law. I want the police visibly patrolling our neighborhoods,
and I want to know that they will take care of the small problems so that the
big ones don't arise. As neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and
people on our streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those
calls.
 
We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want safe
streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach are louder
and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most livable city"
sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the way to the top if
necessary.
 
That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting tonight.
 
Luke Ibis
Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
About/contact Luke Ibis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
 
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http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
 
The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
 
I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
and care about their future.
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <

Rest of post

<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Luke,
>
>
> I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
> Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With the
> liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and are
> out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop coddling
> these hoodlums.
>
>
> 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken to
> Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could put
> another officer on the east side.
>
>
> 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> Internal Affairs.
>
>
> 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
>
>
> This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or Grand
> Ave.
>
>
> Stand up and be heard.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action. I
> also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that this
> problem be dealt with holistically.
>
> The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by
> some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
> us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
> business."
>
> All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
> big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
> the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts
> with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
> and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A better
> quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> these basic laws.
>
> Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
> the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the police
> been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with and
> the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> properties in our neighborhoods.
>
> Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need
> a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's
> get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
> them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
>
> We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
> safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
> are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most
> livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the
> way to the top if necessary.
>
> That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> tonight.
>
> Luke Ibis
> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> About/contact Luke Ibis:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
>
> View full topic or share:
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> Kathy Kieffer
> Railroad Island, St. Paul
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Hi all,
 
I'm filling in as legislative aide to Councilmember Amy Brendmoen, whose ward
includes most of Railroad Island. She and her full-time legislative aide, Kim
O'Brien (who will return from maternity leave next Monday), have worked with
the District 5 Planning Council and Linda Arnesen (who has posted on this
thread) to create a task force of Railroad Island residents to address public
safety, housing stability, and overall livability. Noticing that several of you
have noted that you live in Railroad Island, I wanted to extend an invitation

Rest of post

-- and, frankly, a request -- for you to join our September meeting.
 
Tentatively, that will happen on September 26th, 6:30pm, at the Eastern
District Police HQ (Minnehaha and Payne). You can email Linda at larnesen1 (@)
comcast.net for more information. (Linda chairs the task force.)
 
Councilmember Brendmoen has been watching this thread, discussing the matter
with the police and community leaders, and will be attending tonight's meeting.
Thanks to all of you for your passion and engagement with this issue--and for
those of you in Railroad Island, we hope you'll continue to stay engaged beyond
this immediate issue.
 
Will Howell
Interim Legislative Aide to Councilmember Amy Brendmoen
651-266-8651 (o)
<email obscured>
 
Do you support a streetcar line on Rice Street? Tell us:
http://www.peakdemocracy.com​/portals​/113​/Forum​_419​/Issue​_1411
 
Subscribe to our e-newsletter Ward 5 Update and get updates on our Facebook
page Ward 5 Wire.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Luke Ibis
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:15 AM
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city officials
are paying attention to this situation and taking some action. I also
appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that this problem
be dealt with holistically.
 
The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing holding us
back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by some percentage
of unsavory people. It's high time that City government paid more attention to
quality of life issues on the East Side and helped us provide a community that
is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for business."
 
All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but big
crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect the St.
Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts with
enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass, and
curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why
roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or congregating in
parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A better quality of life for
all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of these basic laws.
 
Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing the
laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the police been
called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the books? If this
is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with and the property
closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance properties in our
neighborhoods.
 
Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known trouble
spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need a strong law
enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's get the cops out
of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging with the community. If
someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop them, talk to them, tell
them that the community is watching, tell them there will be consequence to
violations of the law. I want the police visibly patrolling our neighborhoods,
and I want to know that they will take care of the small problems so that the
big ones don't arise. As neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and
people on our streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those
calls.
 
We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want safe
streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach are louder
and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most livable city"
sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the way to the top if
necessary.
 
That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting tonight.
 
Luke Ibis
Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
About/contact Luke Ibis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
 
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http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Bravo, Luke!
 
Well said. I only hope the legislators and city officials (beyond one or two
of them) ARE paying attention - and taking some action.
 
You have absolutey hit the nail directly on the head with you other comments.
We who have been here for decades and constantly try to improve the area
deserve better - and need to demand it. (And not be told that we don't know
how to read crime statistics.) If you don't already subscribe, you can be sent
a weekly email from SPPD:
 
 
The District Council 5 Police Report has been updated. Please see attached.
All reports are posted online at the District Council Crime Statistics web page
at http://www.stpaul.gov​/index​.aspx​?NID​=2399​. The information on that web page
includes all District Council reports separated by neighborhood that date back
to the beginning of 2011.
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!

Rest of post

----- Original Message ----- From: Luke Ibis To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:14:44
-0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I am new to the forum
and I appreciate that our legislators and city officials are paying attention
to this situation and taking some action. I also appreciate the suggestions put
forward by Steven and others that this problem be dealt with holistically. The
East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing holding us back
is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by some percentage of
unsavory people. It's high time that City government paid more attention to
quality of life issues on the East Side and helped us provide a community that
is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for business." All that said, it's
clear there is a criminal element involved here, but big crimes often start
with a series of small ones. We should all expect the St. Paul Police to
enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts with enforcing the laws
related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass, and curfews and moves up from
there. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why roving bands of young
people need to be out past curfew or congregating in parking lots, on street
corners, or at bus stops. A better quality of life for all of us starts with
the consistent enforcement of these basic laws. Second, we need to hold the
City and the police accountable for enforcing the laws related nuisance rental
properties. How many times have the police been called to this house in the
past? How many complaints are on the books? If this is a nuisance property the
landlord should be dealt with and the property closed up. We should not accept
the presence of nuisance properties in our neighborhoods. Third I believe we
must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known trouble spots and gang
areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need a strong law enforcement
presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's get the cops out of their
cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging with the community. If someone
looks suspicious I want the police to stop them, talk to them, tell them that
the community is watching, tell them there will be consequence to violations of
the law. I want the police visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to
know that they will take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't
arise. As neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls. We all
know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want safe streets
- the voices in our community who will support this approach are louder and
more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most livable city"
sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the way to the top if
necessary. That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the
meeting tonight. Luke Ibis Payne Phalen, Saint Paul About/contact Luke Ibis:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt full topic or
share: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
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It's really hard for the cops to enforce the laws when the upper adminstration
won't back them, meaning our Chief of Police and the Mayor. We have to back our
Street Cops.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:56:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
 
The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
 
I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
and care about their future.
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Luke,
>
>
> I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
> Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With the
> liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and are
> out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop coddling
> these hoodlums.
>
>
> 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken to
> Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could put
> another officer on the east side.
>
>
> 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> Internal Affairs.
>
>
> 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
>
>
> This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or Grand
> Ave.
>
>
> Stand up and be heard.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action. I
> also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that this
> problem be dealt with holistically.
>
> The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by
> some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
> us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
> business."
>
> All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
> big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
> the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts
> with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
> and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A better
> quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> these basic laws.
>
> Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
> the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the police
> been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with and
> the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> properties in our neighborhoods.
>
> Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need
> a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's
> get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
> them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
>
> We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
> safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
> are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most
> livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the
> way to the top if necessary.
>
> That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> tonight.
>
> Luke Ibis
> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> About/contact Luke Ibis:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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> comment.
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>
> Kathy Kieffer
> Railroad Island, St. Paul
> About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/7fFpgc6d8AxhHMJUQdKPdx
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
About/contact Ben Greiling:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3
 
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I would prefer that this not devolve into a liberal/conservative thing or a
race thing. There's no basis for any of that. Fundamentally, this is an issue
of safety and livability and that transcends politics, income, race, and
everything else.
 
I am concerned, though, about the comment from an unnamed St. Paul cop in Ruben
Rosario's story in the Press today:
 
"The cop also added that fellow colleagues working the East Side feel their
hands are tied by police leadership they suspect is more concerned about
community backlash if they aggressively enforce curfew and other
quality-of-life laws."
 
We need to understand from the Police Department and the Ramsey attorney's
office if there is an effort to back off on policing of nuisance and QOL crimes
on the East Side. My opinion is that any such directive is completely
unacceptable and out of line.
 
Big fires start with a small spark - it's been proven that a robust police
presence that clamps down on nuisance crimes is an effective way of lowering
overall crime rates. The police have the tools and the authority to do it. We
must demand it.

Share

One thing that is troubling to me is the level of services for youth on the
Eastside. With literally half the school age kids all being on the
Eastside, we should have, it seems, concentrated in our neighborhood, half
the stuff to do for kids. The cops may need to stop problems once they
happen, but we also need to look for solutions to prevent the problems.
 
My son had a park and rec soccer camp in a Highland Park. I had rarely been
to that area and didn't even recognize it as part of the Saint Paul I know.
Meanwhile our Eastview Rec center is not really vibrant, even though my
kids love playing there.
 
We love playing at Phalen, but why are all the super fancy water parks all
within a block of Lexington or way over in Battle Creek, while Phalen Beach
doesn't seem to be seeing any amenities or improvements?
 
Anyway, we need to remind our council and neighbors that the youth of this
city are concentrated in OUR neighborhood.
Thanks,
Alec
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:48 AM, MPL Specialties <

Rest of post

<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> It's really hard for the cops to enforce the laws when the upper
> adminstration won't back them, meaning our Chief of Police and the Mayor.
> We have to back our Street Cops.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:56:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
> fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
> laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
>
> The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
> something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
> prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
> car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
> surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
>
> I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
> venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
> come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
> owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
> side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
> and care about their future.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Ben Greiling
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > Luke,
> >
> >
> > I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
> > Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
> the
> > liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
> are
> > out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> > moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> > upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
> coddling
> > these hoodlums.
> >
> >
> > 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
> to
> > Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
> put
> > another officer on the east side.
> >
> >
> > 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> > Internal Affairs.
> >
> >
> > 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
> >
> >
> > This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
> Grand
> > Ave.
> >
> >
> > Stand up and be heard.
> >
> >
> > ~Kathy Kieffer~
> > MPL Specialties
> > 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> > St. Paul, MN 55130
> > 651-771-4541
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> >
> > I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> > officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action.
> I
> > also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
> this
> > problem be dealt with holistically.
> >
> > The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> > holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
> by
> > some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> > paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
> > us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
> > business."
> >
> > All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
> > big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
> > the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
> starts
> > with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
> > and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> > reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> > congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
> better
> > quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> > these basic laws.
> >
> > Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
> > the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
> police
> > been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> > books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
> and
> > the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> > properties in our neighborhoods.
> >
> > Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> > trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
> need
> > a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
> Let's
> > get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> > with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
> > them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> > there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> > visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> > take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> > neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> > streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
> >
> > We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
> > safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
> > are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
> most
> > livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
> the
> > way to the top if necessary.
> >
> > That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> > tonight.
> >
> > Luke Ibis
> > Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> > About/contact Luke Ibis:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
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> >
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> > Railroad Island, St. Paul
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> >
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> Ben Greiling
> Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
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I completely agree with Alec and Luke (and pretty much all that has been said
from others, too)-- we have to demand more services for our kids, and make it
clear to the police that this idea of not enforcing curfew and QOL issues is
completely unacceptable. Community backlash? From who? Not me, not anyone I
know in my neighborhood. That just sounds like lazy police work to me.
I am not able to be at the meeting tonight, but please add my voice to the
collective community-- another East Sider who is fed up and wants to see equal
treatment for my neighborhood.
 
-Beth Butterfield
Payne-Phalen
 
On Aug 15, 2013, at 12:08 PM, Alec Timmerman wrote:
 
> One thing that is troubling to me is the level of services for youth on the
> Eastside. With literally half the school age kids all being on the
> Eastside, we should have, it seems, concentrated in our neighborhood, half
> the stuff to do for kids. The cops may need to stop problems once they
> happen, but we also need to look for solutions to prevent the problems.
>
> My son had a park and rec soccer camp in a Highland Park. I had rarely been
> to that area and didn't even recognize it as part of the Saint Paul I know.
> Meanwhile our Eastview Rec center is not really vibrant, even though my
> kids love playing there.
>
> We love playing at Phalen, but why are all the super fancy water parks all
> within a block of Lexington or way over in Battle Creek, while Phalen Beach
> doesn't seem to be seeing any amenities or improvements?
>
> Anyway, we need to remind our council and neighbors that the youth of this
> city are concentrated in OUR neighborhood.
> Thanks,
> Alec
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:48 AM, MPL Specialties <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> It's really hard for the cops to enforce the laws when the upper
>> adminstration won't back them, meaning our Chief of Police and the Mayor.
>> We have to back our Street Cops.
>>
>>
>> ~Kathy Kieffer~
>> MPL Specialties
>> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
>> St. Paul, MN 55130
>> 651-771-4541
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>
>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:56:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>>
>> MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
>> fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
>> laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
>>
>> The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
>> something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
>> prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
>> car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
>> surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
>>
>> I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
>> venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
>> come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
>> owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
>> side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
>> and care about their future.
>>
>> Thanks for your time,
>> Ben Greiling
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
>> <email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>>> Luke,
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
>>> Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
>> the
>>> liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
>> are
>>> out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
>>> moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
>>> upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
>> coddling
>>> these hoodlums.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
>> to
>>> Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
>> put
>>> another officer on the east side.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
>>> Internal Affairs.
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
>> Grand
>>> Ave.
>>>
>>>
>>> Stand up and be heard.
>>>
>>>
>>> ~Kathy Kieffer~
>>> MPL Specialties
>>> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
>>> St. Paul, MN 55130
>>> 651-771-4541
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
>>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>>>
>>> I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
>>> officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action.
>> I
>>> also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
>> this
>>> problem be dealt with holistically.
>>>
>>> The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
>>> holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
>> by
>>> some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
>>> paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
>>> us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
>>> business."
>>>
>>> All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
>>> big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
>>> the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
>> starts
>>> with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
>>> and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
>>> reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
>>> congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
>> better
>>> quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
>>> these basic laws.
>>>
>>> Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
>>> the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
>> police
>>> been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
>>> books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
>> and
>>> the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
>>> properties in our neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
>>> trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
>> need
>>> a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
>> Let's
>>> get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
>>> with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
>>> them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
>>> there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
>>> visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
>>> take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
>>> neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
>>> streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
>>>
>>> We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
>>> safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
>>> are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
>> most
>>> livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
>> the
>>> way to the top if necessary.
>>>
>>> That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
>>> tonight.
>>>
>>> Luke Ibis
>>> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
>>> About/contact Luke Ibis:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
>>>
>>> View full topic or share:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
>>>
>>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
>> Sidewalk
>>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>>
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>>> Kathy Kieffer
>>> Railroad Island, St. Paul
>>> About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
>>>
>>> View full topic or share:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/7fFpgc6d8AxhHMJUQdKPdx
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>>
>> Ben Greiling
>> Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
>> About/contact Ben Greiling:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/4vto4COnuQ2tYZv6scL9km
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>> Kathy Kieffer
>> Railroad Island, St. Paul
>> About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
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>> View full topic or share:
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> Alec Timmerman
> Hazel Park/Dayton's Bluff/Greater Eastside, Saint Paul
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Kathy and Danette,
 
Kudos to both of you for your comments, and I'm glad you'll be there tonight!
 
But before we generalize groups, lets make it select groups such as absentee
(slum) landlords.
 
I am retirement age but can't afford to, work full time (and beyond) and owner
occupy a duplex since 1992 when I sold the east side single family home after a
divorce that I'd lived in since 1975. In other words, I've been around awhile.
I have also volunteered for the community, currently serve on the D5 board and
CPED and it's a constant struggle without seeing any/much improvement in crime
in the area - that I hoped for when I bought the duplex. It's a high
maintenance Victorian that is a lot of work.
 
Not all landlords are bad - though, arguably, many in this area are. They live
in the burbs and don't care who they rent to. Some of us care and struggle
hard with getting good tenants who want to live here - due to the very issues
you name.
 
Since I care, screen tenants heavily, evict the bad ones, I've sat on my huge
3BR rental property - vacant - for the better part of the past 7-8 years. Know
what that's cost me? 10s of thousands of dollars. Yes, this is personal.
After being vacant several years in the housing boom where eveyone bought one,
one tenant was there a year, left with no notice (after all, she bought a house
and "didn't know when it was going to close" right...) and was a
nightmare/impossible to deal with tenant. With no vacate notice, I kept her
security deposit and so informed her by letter within the legal time frame.
Over a year later, she sued me - and got it!!? My attorney said it was a slam
dunk for me and wouldn't go to court with me/charge me - then could not believe
the judge favored her - that's what Ramsey County does, folks! The tenant is
almost always favored - my experience and that of many landlords I have talked
with. Should have gone to Judge Judy who doesn't mess around with bad tenants.
 
It sat vacant again for years, as I could not find a suitable tenant I was
willing to rent to. Two years later, with reservations, I rented it to a
single mom - who was there 59 days - she wanted to move another 10-12 people
in to help her with rent, even though she could afford it - in spite of my
using the strongest lease available and being very clear up front. Another
year and a half vacant, then a tenant last year for six month who couldn't pay
his rent and I terminated his lease. What's the problem? The reputation of
this area - sometimes deserved, sometimes not - which doesn't have a lot of
decent tenants rushing in to sign up to live here. Yes, there are some. But a
large portion of the community is bad rental propertys with equally bad
landlords. But let's not put them all in that mold, I know a lot of other
good, decent landlords who have struggled the same way I have this past decade.
 
Yes, We who live here know the area for what it is, good and bad. People from
the "outside looking in" just see the bad and the news headlines and know they
can go find another area to live in. So it's a vicious circle. We ALL have
an investment in community here with homes, businesses, LIVES - and one that's
not paying off well - we deserve better. QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES!!
 
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!

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----- Original Message ----- From: MPL Specialties
<<email obscured>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thu, 15 Aug 2013 15:23:00 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent
Assault You hit the nail on the head! I'm glad you are coming tonight. We have
to focus on the crime and the troubled houses and I think that's where our
concern lies. No kid should be afraid to go out and play, nor should people be
afraid to work in this area. We have to make sure at this meeting that they
don't push their agenda on us, it's OUR meeting and they need to listen to our
concerns. So glad you're coming. ~Kathy Kieffer~ MPL Specialties 549
Minnehaha Ave. E St. Paul, MN 55130 651-771-4541 ----- Original Message
----- From: "Danette Allrich" To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 9:22:10 AM Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent
Assault I am definitely going to the meeting tonight. I am a resident of the
lower east side and have been concerned for a while now with the escalation of
what I am seeing happen in my neighborhood. I cannot wait to both speak about
what I see and listen to what some of the solutions might be. I love where I
live, I love the diversity and absolutely enjoy this area. I just don't like
feeling scared or having my 8 year old ask me to avoid driving up our street
because he doesn't like to see what is happening on a daily basis. Nobody
should live in fear. They sure don't have this type of environment in more
'expensive' neighborhoods, why is it happening here? One question I do want an
answer to is how can there be such a high concentration of rental homes/units
in this area? I am all for affordable housing & feel everyone has the right to
live where they want. But I see house after house in such poor shape and NO ONE
deserves to live in squalor because that is all they can afford. There are too
many landlords that will rent to anyone as long as they get the rent paid. That
really isn't fair to the neighborhood. Hope to see everyone tonight!! Danette
Allrich Westminster/Case, Saint Paul About/contact Danette Allrich:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd View full topic or
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In terms of getting people from many races and ethnicities involved in
the community response ...
 
Census data is a great way to see who makes up the community in Payne Phalen.
 
The MNCompass.org site helps you get to "know" your community by the numbers.
 
Note:
http://www.mncompass.org​/​_pdfs​/neighborhood​-profiles​/StPaul​-PaynePhalen​-102011​.pdf
 
And this map:
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/1493
(attached is a zoom into part of the Eastside)
 
Getting people from all backgrounds and different first languages to
one meeting, much less many efforts takes a sustained effort. It can
be done. It takes effort and partnerships. Many groups are 10x better
than we are with this forum at reaching parts of the community, but
we've found that going door to door has been most effective in
building bridges online as one small contribution. Let us know how we
can help as an organization without getting in the way either!
 
One huge lesson with civic engagement in general - people from some
backgrounds are simply asked to participate far less than others.
Note: http://bit.ly/digicivic - scroll to the bottom - so if there is
anyone you can "Just Ask" today to come tonight, do it.
 
Steven Clift - http://stevenclift.com
Executive Director - http://E-Democracy.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/democracy
Tel/Text: +1.612.234.7072

eastsidestpaulraceethnicitymap.jpg 759.14kb

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Anyone know where we might find on the web a link to a transcript and visuals
of Mayor Coleman's 2014 Budget speech which was presented noon yesterday - not
broadcast on-the-air or on-line to my knowledge? Since we will require the
Mayor and City Council Person Bostrom to make some immediate badly needed
modifications to resource allocations and priorities, it would be good to know
how out of control the city finances have become now, with hard numbers, as a
starting point.
 
> From: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 04:54:46 +1200
>
> I would prefer that this not devolve into a liberal/conservative thing or a
race thing. There's no basis for any of that. Fundamentally, this is an issue
of safety and livability and that transcends politics, income, race, and
everything else.
>
> I am concerned, though, about the comment from an unnamed St. Paul cop in
Ruben Rosario's story in the Press today:
>
> "The cop also added that fellow colleagues working the East Side feel their
hands are tied by police leadership they suspect is more concerned about
community backlash if they aggressively enforce curfew and other
quality-of-life laws."
>
> We need to understand from the Police Department and the Ramsey attorney's
office if there is an effort to back off on policing of nuisance and QOL crimes
on the East Side. My opinion is that any such directive is completely
unacceptable and out of line.
>
> Big fires start with a small spark - it's been proven that a robust police
presence that clamps down on nuisance crimes is an effective way of lowering
overall crime rates. The police have the tools and the authority to do it. We
must demand it.
>
> Luke Ibis
> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> About/contact Luke Ibis:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/6oBvJZ8aK42WGiIpSy7gXA
>
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No wonder people don't show up to "your" meetings! Doesn't sound welcoming to
me. Good luck at your session to get us out of "your" neighborhood!
 
Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With

Rest of post

> the
> > liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
> are
> > out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> > moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> > upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
> coddling
> > these hoodlums.
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Timmerman <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen <stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
One thing that is troubling to me is the level of services for youth on the
astside. With literally half the school age kids all being on the
astside, we should have, it seems, concentrated in our neighborhood, half
he stuff to do for kids. The cops may need to stop problems once they
appen, but we also need to look for solutions to prevent the problems.
My son had a park and rec soccer camp in a Highland Park. I had rarely been
o that area and didn't even recognize it as part of the Saint Paul I know.
eanwhile our Eastview Rec center is not really vibrant, even though my
ids love playing there.
We love playing at Phalen, but why are all the super fancy water parks all
ithin a block of Lexington or way over in Battle Creek, while Phalen Beach
oesn't seem to be seeing any amenities or improvements?
Anyway, we need to remind our council and neighbors that the youth of this
ity are concentrated in OUR neighborhood.
hanks,
lec
 
n Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:48 AM, MPL Specialties <
<email obscured>> wrote:
> It's really hard for the cops to enforce the laws when the upper
adminstration won't back them, meaning our Chief of Police and the Mayor.
We have to back our Street Cops.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:56:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
 
The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
 
I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
and care about their future.
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Luke,
>
>
> I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
> Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
the
> liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
are
> out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
coddling
> these hoodlums.
>
>
> 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
to
> Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
put
> another officer on the east side.
>
>
> 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> Internal Affairs.
>
>
> 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
>
>
> This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
Grand
> Ave.
>
>
> Stand up and be heard.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action.
I
> also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
this
> problem be dealt with holistically.
>
> The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
by
> some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
> us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
> business."
>
> All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
> big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
> the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
starts
> with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
> and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
better
> quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> these basic laws.
>
> Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
> the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
police
> been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
and
> the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> properties in our neighborhoods.
>
> Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
need
> a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
Let's
> get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
> them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
>
> We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
> safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
> are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
most
> livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
the
> way to the top if necessary.
>
> That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> tonight.
>
> Luke Ibis
> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> About/contact Luke Ibis:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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> Kathy Kieffer
> Railroad Island, St. Paul
> About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
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>
> View full topic or share:
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>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
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Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
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http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3
 
View full topic or share:
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Railroad Island, St. Paul
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View full topic or share:
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Alec Timmerman
azel Park/Dayton's Bluff/Greater Eastside, Saint Paul
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I disagree that this issue "transcends politics." I think this issue exists in
large part DUE to the political philosophies of those who represent this
district:
Rep. John Lesch (DFL, 66B)
Sen. John Marty (DFL, 66)
Congress woman Betty McCollum (DFL, CD4)
(and others with the same leanings)
 
We must take a deep look and the politics, policies and laws implemented and
promoted by these people and ask the tough questions about whether these
policies are helping or hurting the community and what trickle down destructive
impact they are having.
 
Also, the irony cannot go unnoticed or unmentioned that Lesch, Marty and
McCollum were (and are) at the forefront of the aggressive push to strip
citizens' rights and access to effective means of self defense.
 
Shelley Leeson
Minneapolis
What happens in Payne-Phalen does not stay in Payne-Phalen

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Yes, call immediately. But, the dispatchers see those calls as low priority and
they're put in the bottom. Case in point: We were out in front of my building
last night, a group of 4 turned into 15 in a matter of minutes. We called it
in. A squad of unmarked police pulled up to see how we were doing, 22 minutes
after our call, the call came into the squad. He asked us if we made the call
and said yes. Needless to say, he was not happy. I just don't see how we're
going to fix this whole mess, with social media fueling these kids actions, it
really needs to start at home.
 
 
enuff said, I'm so far behind in my job with all this crap happening and no
sleep to boot.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "revital mitchell" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:31:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Well said Ben!
 
Revital Mitchell
651-774-0275 Home
651-247-2704 Cell*
*
 
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
> fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
> laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
>
> The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
> something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
> prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
> car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
> surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
>
> I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
> venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
> come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
> owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
> side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
> and care about their future.
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Ben Greiling
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > Luke,
> >
> >
> > I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
> > Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
> the
> > liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
> are
> > out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> > moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> > upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
> coddling
> > these hoodlums.
> >
> >
> > 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
> to
> > Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
> put
> > another officer on the east side.
> >
> >
> > 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> > Internal Affairs.
> >
> >
> > 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
> >
> >
> > This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
> Grand
> > Ave.
> >
> >
> > Stand up and be heard.
> >
> >
> > ~Kathy Kieffer~
> > MPL Specialties
> > 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> > St. Paul, MN 55130
> > 651-771-4541
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> >
> > I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> > officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action.
> I
> > also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
> this
> > problem be dealt with holistically.
> >
> > The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> > holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
> by
> > some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> > paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
> > us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
> > business."
> >
> > All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
> > big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
> > the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
> starts
> > with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
> > and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> > reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> > congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
> better
> > quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> > these basic laws.
> >
> > Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
> > the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
> police
> > been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> > books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
> and
> > the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> > properties in our neighborhoods.
> >
> > Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> > trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
> need
> > a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
> Let's
> > get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> > with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
> > them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> > there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> > visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> > take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> > neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> > streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
> >
> > We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
> > safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
> > are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
> most
> > livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
> the
> > way to the top if necessary.
> >
> > That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> > tonight.
> >
> > Luke Ibis
> > Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> > About/contact Luke Ibis:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
> > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> > comment.
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> > quotes)
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> > Kathy Kieffer
> > Railroad Island, St. Paul
> > About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/7fFpgc6d8AxhHMJUQdKPdx
> >
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> Sidewalk
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> >
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> Ben Greiling
> Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
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> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3
>
> View full topic or share:
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>
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Revital Mitchell
Payne Phalen, St. Paul
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I must say that I agree with you on most topics, We must start teaching
respect, and appropriate behavior for *humanity *at HOME.
On one hand I am frustrated that those kids are out and about and the Law
Enforcement doesn't have it under control, but I also find it really hard
to not feel so deeply sorry for those kids who were given up on so long
ago, that they have to find another 'family' to care for them. They find it
in the form of a gang - because everyone else has given up on them. Where
did WE as a society go wrong? I guess this is probably the wrong place to
post about this topic.
As for the LOW PRIORITY CALLS - I personally insist that the dispatch send
someone RIGHT AWAY! When they say that they don't have an officer in the
area - I sometime have to 'remind' them who pays their salary....:) I
usually get a response under 5 minutes. Lets work on getting this
neighborhood a safer place But, at the same time, lets help those kids find
their life purpose, lets show them that SOMEONE does care about their
future. Okay, enough said...
 
*
*
 
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:27 PM, MPL Specialties <<email obscured>

Rest of post

> wrote:
 
> Yes, call immediately. But, the dispatchers see those calls as low
> priority and they're put in the bottom. Case in point: We were out in front
> of my building last night, a group of 4 turned into 15 in a matter of
> minutes. We called it in. A squad of unmarked police pulled up to see how
> we were doing, 22 minutes after our call, the call came into the squad. He
> asked us if we made the call and said yes. Needless to say, he was not
> happy. I just don't see how we're going to fix this whole mess, with social
> media fueling these kids actions, it really needs to start at home.
>
>
> enuff said, I'm so far behind in my job with all this crap happening and
> no sleep to boot.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "revital mitchell" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:31:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> Well said Ben!
>
> Revital Mitchell
> 651-774-0275 Home
> 651-247-2704 Cell*
> *
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
> > fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that
> enforcing
> > laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
> >
> > The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
> > something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
> > prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one
> squad
> > car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
> > surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
> >
> > I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
> > venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
> > come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
> > owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the
> east
> > side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out
> there
> > and care about their future.
> >
> > Thanks for your time,
> > Ben Greiling
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
> > <email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > > Luke,
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some
> solutions.
> > > Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
> > the
> > > liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
> > are
> > > out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> > > moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from
> the
> > > upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
> > coddling
> > > these hoodlums.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
> > to
> > > Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
> > put
> > > another officer on the east side.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> > > Internal Affairs.
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
> > Grand
> > > Ave.
> > >
> > >
> > > Stand up and be heard.
> > >
> > >
> > > ~Kathy Kieffer~
> > > MPL Specialties
> > > 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> > > St. Paul, MN 55130
> > > 651-771-4541
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> > > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> > >
> > > I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> > > officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some
> action.
> > I
> > > also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
> > this
> > > problem be dealt with holistically.
> > >
> > > The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> > > holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
> > by
> > > some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> > > paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and
> helped
> > > us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open
> for
> > > business."
> > >
> > > All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here,
> but
> > > big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all
> expect
> > > the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
> > starts
> > > with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering,
> trespass,
> > > and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> > > reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> > > congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
> > better
> > > quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> > > these basic laws.
> > >
> > > Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for
> enforcing
> > > the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
> > police
> > > been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> > > books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
> > and
> > > the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> > > properties in our neighborhoods.
> > >
> > > Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> > > trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
> > need
> > > a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
> > Let's
> > > get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> > > with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to
> stop
> > > them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> > > there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> > > visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> > > take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> > > neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> > > streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
> > >
> > > We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We
> want
> > > safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this
> approach
> > > are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
> > most
> > > livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
> > the
> > > way to the top if necessary.
> > >
> > > That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> > > tonight.
> > >
> > > Luke Ibis
> > > Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> > > About/contact Luke Ibis:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
> > >
> > > View full topic or share:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
> > >
> > > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> > Sidewalk
> > > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> > > comment.
> > > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> > > quotes)
> > > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> > http://OnlineGroups.Net
> > >
> > > Kathy Kieffer
> > > Railroad Island, St. Paul
> > > About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
> > >
> > > View full topic or share:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/7fFpgc6d8AxhHMJUQdKPdx
> > >
> > > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> > Sidewalk
> > > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> > > comment.
> > > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> > > quotes)
> > > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> > > http://OnlineGroups.Net
> > >
> >
> > Ben Greiling
> > Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
> > About/contact Ben Greiling:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/ePVFX7oCmQ92dDkTUInw3
> >
> > View full topic or share:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/4vto4COnuQ2tYZv6scL9km
> >
> > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> Sidewalk
> > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> > comment.
> > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> > quotes)
> > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> > http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
>
> Revital Mitchell
> Payne Phalen, St. Paul
> About/contact Revital Mitchell:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5mm1XXxjJVjvTsVvRwjX2x
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3SlZaE9mVu95C6DqISDR3D
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> quotes)
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
> Kathy Kieffer
> Railroad Island, St. Paul
> About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1dFjDnP5GkHLjOVdYt8AT1
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> comment.
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> quotes)
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> http://OnlineGroups.Net
>

Share

Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
 
If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting tonight
and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to see is
already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
 
RevDev

Share

Revital,
 
 
This is exactly the place to post your comment and express your concern. This
issue has many layers to it, policing and speaking to our local gov. officials
is one thing. However, one the other hand most of them don't live in our
community, they don't shop in our community, they don't attend events or
partake in activities in our community therefore how we expect them to
understand the vast cultural issues in our community when they don't have nor
take a vested interest in our community. How many of you have a quality
relationship with your neighbor regardless of race, socio-economic background,
political affiliation etc.
 
 
How many of US really take the time to get to know the people living around us.
Most of us don't because we are crippled by assumptions, lack of information
and our inability to see past our cultural difference. Trust me when I tell you
that for every black person or gang in this community that commits a crime
there is also an Asian gang or person doing the same things. There are also
white men in the community committing crimes as well. My family have been in
this community since 95, we live off of Magnolia and Bradley, when we moved in
there was a blue house on the corner of Bradley and Burr that was a meth house
not more than a stones throw from my back yard. They were not African American
or Asian, it was a White family. I say this to say that if we are going to
address the issue then we need to do so from a holistic perspective. I feel
equally as bad for the gentlemen that was assaulted last week, I really do.
Black gangs are not
the only problem or even biggest problem on the Eastside.
 
 
My personal solution to this issue is: we need to build stronger communities
that are multicultural, communicative, capable of embracing change, that
collectively raises the children of the community, with solid programing and a
strong community focused vision that values everyone. Its hard for any gang or
individual to destroy his community or hurt those in it, when he knows that the
people of that community value him/them and he/she and they are a vital part of
that community. Or, when he or she knows that if they are in need or pain there
are outlets and resources within the community to assist and see them through.
Personally I don't give a darn about our local officials, because they don't
live in our community, they don't shop in our community or anything of the
like. Do your really think they are thinking about if at this very minute? If
it wasn't for Mayor Coleman's face being on the evening news from time to time,
I swear by all the
stars in heaven that I could not tell you what the man looks like. He is
invisible to this community and all of you reading this know it.

Rest of post

________________________________
From: revital mitchell <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
I must say that I agree with you on most topics, We must start teaching
respect, and appropriate behavior for *humanity *at HOME.
On one hand I am frustrated that those kids are out and about and the Law
Enforcement doesn't have it under control, but I also find it really hard
to not feel so deeply sorry for those kids who were given up on so long
ago, that they have to find another 'family' to care for them. They find it
in the form of a gang - because everyone else has given up on them. Where
did WE as a society go wrong? I guess this is probably the wrong place to
post about this topic.
As for the LOW PRIORITY CALLS - I personally insist that the dispatch send
someone RIGHT AWAY! When they say that they don't have an officer in the
area - I sometime have to 'remind' them who pays their salary....:) I
usually get a response under 5 minutes. Lets work on getting this
neighborhood a safer place But, at the same time, lets help those kids find
their life purpose, lets show them that SOMEONE does care about their
future. Okay, enough said...
 
*
*
 
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:27 PM, MPL Specialties <<email obscured>
> wrote:
 
> Yes, call immediately. But, the dispatchers see those calls as low
> priority and they're put in the bottom. Case in point: We were out in front
> of my building last night, a group of 4 turned into 15 in a matter of
> minutes. We called it in. A squad of unmarked police pulled up to see how
> we were doing, 22 minutes after our call, the call came into the squad. He
> asked us if we made the call and said yes. Needless to say, he was not
> happy. I just don't see how we're going to fix this whole mess, with social
> media fueling these kids actions, it really needs to start at home.
>
>
> enuff said, I'm so far behind in my job with all this crap happening and
> no sleep to boot.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "revital mitchell" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:31:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> Well said Ben!
>
> Revital Mitchell
> 651-774-0275 Home
> 651-247-2704 Cell*
> *
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Ben Greiling <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> > MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
> > fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that
> enforcing
> > laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
> >
> > The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
> > something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
> > prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one
> squad
> > car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
> > surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
> >
> > I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
> > venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
> > come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
> > owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the
> east
> > side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out
> there
> > and care about their future.
> >
> > Thanks for your time,
> > Ben Greiling
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
> > <email obscured>> wrote:
> >
> > > Luke,
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some
> solutions.
> > > Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
> > the
> > > liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
> > are
> > > out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> > > moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from
> the
> > > upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
> > coddling
> > > these hoodlums.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
> > to
> > > Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
> > put
> > > another officer on the east side.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> > > Internal Affairs.
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
> > Grand
> > > Ave.
> > >
> > >
> > > Stand up and be heard.
> > >
> > >
> > > ~Kathy Kieffer~
> > > MPL Specialties
> > > 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> > > St. Paul, MN 55130
> > > 651-771-4541
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> > > To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
> > >
> > > I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> > > officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some
> action.
> > I
> > > also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
> > this
> > > problem be dealt with holistically.
> > >
> > > The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> > > holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
> > by
> > > some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> > > paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and
> helped
> > > us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open
> for
> > > business."
> > >
> > > All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here,
> but
> > > big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all
> expect
> > > the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
> > starts
> > > with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering,
> trespass,
> > > and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> > > reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> > > congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
> > better
> > > quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> > > these basic laws.
> > >
> > > Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for
> enforcing
> > > the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
> > police
> > > been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> > > books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
> > and
> > > the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> > > properties in our neighborhoods.
> > >
> > > Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> > > trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
> > need
> > > a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
> > Let's
> > > get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> > > with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to
> stop
> > > them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> > > there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> > > visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> > > take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> > > neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> > > streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
> > >
> > > We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We
> want
> > > safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this
> approach
> > > are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
> > most
> > > livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
> > the
> > > way to the top if necessary.
> > >
> > > That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> > > tonight.
> > >
> > > Luke Ibis
> > > Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> > > About/contact Luke Ibis:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
> > >
> > > View full topic or share:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
> > >
> > > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> > Sidewalk
> > > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
> > > comment.
> > > Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
> > > quotes)
> > > Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting:
> > http://OnlineGroups.Net
> > >
> > > Kathy Kieffer
> > > Railroad Island, St. Paul
> > > About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/2JXoccXHpDJkWvfOgh399z
> > >
> > > View full topic or share:
> > > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/7fFpgc6d8AxhHMJUQdKPdx
> > >
> > > * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the
> > Sidewalk
> > > http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
> > >
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> Revital Mitchell
> Payne Phalen, St. Paul
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> Kathy Kieffer
> Railroad Island, St. Paul
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Revital Mitchell
Payne Phalen, St. Paul
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Derrick, once again the voice of the PEOPLE has spoken... and spoken WELL!!
 
I wonder if a write-in campaign would really work in this City to rid us of
unpublic public officials?
 
When will the "Public" return to the capacity of the office?
 
I welcome your thoughts!!
 
 
RevDev
 
I am off to the meeting, hope to see all of you there.

Share

I wish everyone an insightful and constructive community meeting
tonight and thank everyone doing the heavy lifting to prepare.
 
Here are some updates on your neighbor Ray:
 
http://www.caringbridge.org​/visit​/raywidstrand
 
Written 5 hours ago
 
Ray is in stable condition today.
 
"Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the
overcoming of it."-- Helen Keller
 
 
Wednesday, August 14th
 
 
Ray opened and closed one eye this morning!! Doctors are running some
tests to see if it was just a small reaction to light or if he may
have been able to see out of one eye. We will take this news as a move
in the right direction! However, Ray is still in critical condition
and is struggling to overcome a small fever right now.
 
Written August 13, 2013 11:45am
 
Due to the high level of media attention to Ray's story, we will only
update a small amount of information on this website.
 
With little change in the last 24 hours, Ray is still in critical condition.
 
Monday, August 12th - 8:16 a.m.
 
We ask that everyone keep Ray in your thoughts during the next few
days while the sedatives leave Ray's system. Ray will have a very
quiet next two days as his body heals.
 
A caring co-worker of Ray sent us a very sweet quote in a message the
other day and we would like to share that quote with all of you:
 
"It's often just enough to be with someone. I don't need to touch
them. Not even talk. A feeling passes between you both. The natural
force within each of us is that greatest healer of all."
Steven Clift - http://stevenclift.com
Executive Director - http://E-Democracy.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/democracy
Tel/Text: +1.612.234.7072
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement
Leader <<email obscured>> wrote:
> Derrick, once again the voice of the PEOPLE has spoken... and spoken WELL!!
>
> I wonder if a write-in campaign would really work in this City to rid us of
unpublic public officials?
>
> When will the "Public" return to the capacity of the office?
>
> I welcome your thoughts!!
>
>
> RevDev
>
> I am off to the meeting, hope to see all of you there.
> Pastor Devin Miller
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/Sf0AP7WtHtzGjkIo82LhH
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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Derrick- great post.
One thing we have in my area is great communication within residents. It is
easy to do but is rarely done. We also work with District 5 to make sure that
when there are issues we get them addressed and taken care of quickly. We have
had meetings with landlords in regards to tenants that are causing problems &
again, that has been handled quickly & positively.
 
If you have a couple of like-minded neighbors who really do want to make a
difference within the neighborhood (whether they rent or own, that doesn't
matter), it is beneficial.
 
I have really enjoyed all of the great posts I am seeing today- can't wait for
the meeting & getting some solution started.

Share

Greetings from the far East side, Hayden Heights area. I have appreciated all
the discussion and concern for the East side and the recent assault. Wish I
could be at the meeting. Thank you in advance for all who will be there
representing the whole East Side and city of St. Paul. I hope we will have
some feedback as to what occurred at the meeting and summary of action.
Peggy Denham

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Danette Allrich
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 5:21 PM
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Derrick- great post.
One thing we have in my area is great communication within residents. It is
easy to do but is rarely done. We also work with District 5 to make sure that
when there are issues we get them addressed and taken care of quickly. We have
had meetings with landlords in regards to tenants that are causing problems &
again, that has been handled quickly & positively.
 
If you have a couple of like-minded neighbors who really do want to make a
difference within the neighborhood (whether they rent or own, that doesn't
matter), it is beneficial.
 
I have really enjoyed all of the great posts I am seeing today- can't wait for
the meeting & getting some solution started.
 
Danette Allrich
Westminster/Case, Saint Paul
About/contact Danette Allrich:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5MvWO6nrF9iXoGeKIKKJIH
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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This feels like a bad marriage. All the past issues just brew underneath the
surface, until something big happens, and then years and years of issues get
brought up. You're not ready to leave the marriage, but the other person
already screwed around on you.
 
The Highland Park area is about the same geographical size as Payne Phalen
(we're a little smaller), but we have over twice the number of 10-17 year olds
(1934 versus 4226 data from mncompass.org). We have nearly the same amount of
kids in the 10-14 year old range as West 7th, Mac Groveland and Highland Park
combined. Here's a link to a map for size comparisons:
http://www.bing.com​/images​/search​?q​=map​+of​+st​+paul​+community​+council​&​;FORM​=HDRSC2​#view​=detail​&​;id​=B862155D56DDE925E64982F923CA4D616DCE4CEA​&​;selectedIndex​=8
We also have nearly 3 times the amount of Section 8 housing as Highland Park.
 
I worked with an organization that mentored middle school aged kids. It left
the East Side to go to the "Promise Land", the area in which the city deemed
the promise neighborhood - Frogtown. That area had money pouring in.
 
And speaking of money pouring in, do you remember this article?
http://www.twincities.com​/ci​_23608380​/st​-pauls​-east​-side​-after​-years​-neglect​-new
It talked about Ward 6 and 7 receiving a paltry 14.8% of the city's CIB funds,
compared with 47% for Wards 2 and 4. One of the reasons given was that we
didn't have as many proposals submitted. Do you see the community here? We have
Ramsey County's highest poverty rate. Many people don't know how to "work the
system" to get that money. Plus, drive down Payne Avenue, and there are a lot
of businesses shuttered.
 
Why are the businesses shuttered? Maybe because many of us do our shopping, our
recreation, and our schooling out of district or to the prosperous lands o'er
yonder. I have been guilty of it too.
 
We assume that people in the neighborhood know the process of how to call and
who to call on a nuisance property. I think that part of the many issues here
is that people don't know the process and that people will find out and
retaliate.

Rest of post

________________________________
From: Danette Allrich <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
Derrick- great post.
One thing we have in my area is great communication within residents. It is
easy to do but is rarely done. We also work with District 5 to make sure that
when there are issues we get them addressed and taken care of quickly. We have
had meetings with landlords in regards to tenants that are causing problems &
again, that has been handled quickly & positively.
 
If you have a couple of like-minded neighbors who really do want to make a
difference within the neighborhood (whether they rent or own, that doesn't
matter), it is beneficial.
 
I have really enjoyed all of the great posts I am seeing today- can't wait for
the meeting & getting some solution started.
 
Danette Allrich
Westminster/Case, Saint Paul
About/contact Danette Allrich:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5MvWO6nrF9iXoGeKIKKJIH
 
* Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
 
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Luke,
 
Excellent appraisal of what is happening on the East side and excellent
suggestions for going forward.
 
 
Roxanne Wieken Larsen
Arlington Hills Lutheran Church

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Luke Ibis
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:15 AM
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city officials
are paying attention to this situation and taking some action. I also
appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that this problem
be dealt with holistically.
 
The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing holding us
back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated by some percentage
of unsavory people. It's high time that City government paid more attention to
quality of life issues on the East Side and helped us provide a community that
is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for business."
 
All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but big
crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect the St.
Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this starts with
enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass, and
curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate reason why
roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or congregating in
parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A better quality of life for
all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of these basic laws.
 
Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing the
laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the police been
called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the books? If this
is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with and the property
closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance properties in our
neighborhoods.
 
Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known trouble
spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We need a strong law
enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently. Let's get the cops out
of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging with the community. If
someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop them, talk to them, tell
them that the community is watching, tell them there will be consequence to
violations of the law. I want the police visibly patrolling our neighborhoods,
and I want to know that they will take care of the small problems so that the
big ones don't arise. As neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and
people on our streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those
calls.
 
We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want safe
streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach are louder
and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the most livable city"
sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all the way to the top if
necessary.
 
That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting tonight.
 
Luke Ibis
Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
About/contact Luke Ibis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
 
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I am appalled at the inexcusable and disrespectful behavior of some of our
community participants this evening at the meeting. It seemed that some
just needed to hear their own voice and not seek solutions!
Screaming at the panel and storming off won't do us any good, if we want to
be heard! MOST of what I heard today were complaints and blame....how is
that supposed to open a line of communication? The police, the city
prosecutors , the Mayor and council members were there to listen to our
concerns. Do people truly expect every alley, street and home to be guarded
and patrolled? if your car was broken into under your nose, how is a police
officer supposed to know about it? There aren't enough police officers to
cover every single city street - it is insane to expect them to!
Also, it sounded like many people play the 'Victim' (absolutely, no
disrespect intended to those who actually were victims of a crime) Take
action, stop whining and don't expect the public officials to play GOD!
some of the attendant's expectations are unrealistic. Play a part in the
solution. Let us be an all inclusive neighborhood. A place where diversity
is celebrated, not feared.
I believe one of our problems is not the lack of programs out there, it is
the lack of information. There are many non-for-profit organizations that
are struggling to find volunteers. If some of these youth parents had
information, and/or education regarding some of the programs offered to
teens this summer, if we directed our efforts towards guiding, and keeping
those kids busy in programs that are fun, and engaging to kids their age -
we may see a totally different picture....
So again, we may want to work on communicating the information to the
parents of high-risk children, so they are never left alone to be fresh
bait for gangs. You may think it is 'their' children, and that 'they'
should be taking care of them - well, that horrible assault is a result of
US not paying attention and making it 'our' problem.. Enough said!
 
*
*
 
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement

Rest of post

Leader <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>
> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
> tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want
> to see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>
> RevDev
> Pastor Devin Miller
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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Pastor Miller/ALL
 
I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the violence And lack of
community safety tonight.
 
It was unfortunate that PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so
UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!!
 
The meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!!
 
I live in the Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE
Break-ins within the last year!!!!
 
The district council representative at the microphone did not want to let me
speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
 
Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!!
 
I WILL change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I become
Mayor!!!!
 
This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and affect
positive change!
 
Find a leader for the district council
that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION
WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
HAD I been allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to
the victim and his family for this tragic event.
 
The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in the community NOT willing
to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point of view.
 
This is the reason why I am running for Mayor. ALL people deserve RESPECT and
MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!!
 
I will work for EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few!
 
I again would like the victim and his family to know that they are in my
prayers.
 
I will also pray for ALL those that did not respect and allow input from
EVERYONE INVITED.
 
Peace and Love to ALL!
 
Tim Holden
EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE

Rest of post

Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>
> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to
see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>
> RevDev
> Pastor Devin Miller
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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Tim,
 
You are no one's mayoral candidate if you choose to take a political platform
at a community event like such. If you had introduced yourself as a Tim,
concerned St. Paul resident rather than Mayoral Candidate I may have been more
apt to listen rather than boo you off the microphone.
 
Mayor Coleman has my vote based on this awfully zealous email you've chosen to
blast to our community's democratic forum. And because he's a damn fine public
servant.
 
Best regards,
 
J Samuel Clark
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 15, 2013, at 10:31 PM, Tim <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Pastor Miller/ALL
>
> I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the violence And lack of
community safety tonight.
>
> It was unfortunate that PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so
UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!!
>
> The meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!!
>
> I live in the Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE
Break-ins within the last year!!!!
>
> The district council representative at the microphone did not want to let me
speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
>
> Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!!
>
> I WILL change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I
become Mayor!!!!
>
> This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and
affect positive change!
>
> Find a leader for the district council
> that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION
WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> HAD I been allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to
the victim and his family for this tragic event.
>
> The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in the community NOT willing
to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point of view.
>
> This is the reason why I am running for Mayor. ALL people deserve RESPECT
and MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!!
>
> I will work for EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few!
>
> I again would like the victim and his family to know that they are in my
prayers.
>
> I will also pray for ALL those that did not respect and allow input from
EVERYONE INVITED.
>
> Peace and Love to ALL!
>
> Tim Holden
> EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>>
>> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to
see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>>
>> RevDev
>> Pastor Devin Miller
>> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
>> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
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> Tim Holden
> Como
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Couldn't agree more. Your email summarizes my exact takeaway from tonight's
forum. Thank you for your insight.
 
It's hard to call this everyone's community if we forget the ones within who
should be forgotten least.
 
Sent from my iPhone

Rest of post

 
On Aug 15, 2013, at 11:47 PM, revital mitchell <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> I am appalled at the inexcusable and disrespectful behavior of some of our
> community participants this evening at the meeting. It seemed that some
> just needed to hear their own voice and not seek solutions!
> Screaming at the panel and storming off won't do us any good, if we want to
> be heard! MOST of what I heard today were complaints and blame....how is
> that supposed to open a line of communication? The police, the city
> prosecutors , the Mayor and council members were there to listen to our
> concerns. Do people truly expect every alley, street and home to be guarded
> and patrolled? if your car was broken into under your nose, how is a police
> officer supposed to know about it? There aren't enough police officers to
> cover every single city street - it is insane to expect them to!
> Also, it sounded like many people play the 'Victim' (absolutely, no
> disrespect intended to those who actually were victims of a crime) Take
> action, stop whining and don't expect the public officials to play GOD!
> some of the attendant's expectations are unrealistic. Play a part in the
> solution. Let us be an all inclusive neighborhood. A place where diversity
> is celebrated, not feared.
> I believe one of our problems is not the lack of programs out there, it is
> the lack of information. There are many non-for-profit organizations that
> are struggling to find volunteers. If some of these youth parents had
> information, and/or education regarding some of the programs offered to
> teens this summer, if we directed our efforts towards guiding, and keeping
> those kids busy in programs that are fun, and engaging to kids their age -
> we may see a totally different picture....
> So again, we may want to work on communicating the information to the
> parents of high-risk children, so they are never left alone to be fresh
> bait for gangs. You may think it is 'their' children, and that 'they'
> should be taking care of them - well, that horrible assault is a result of
> US not paying attention and making it 'our' problem.. Enough said!
>
> *
> *
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement
> Leader <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>>
>> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
>> tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want
>> to see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>>
>> RevDev
>> Pastor Devin Miller
>> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
>> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
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>> comment.
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>
> Revital Mitchell
> Payne Phalen, St. Paul
> About/contact Revital Mitchell:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5mm1XXxjJVjvTsVvRwjX2x
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1HqFwABIV6fg52YtXcOTB8
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Recital,
 
Based on some of the earlier post, and some of the language used to describe
whom many of the people on this thread believed were responsible for the ills
of our community is exactly why I did not participate this evening. I
had a feeling that tonight would turn into a blaming/bitching sessions and it
sounds like that is exactly what happened. You are correct, there is no way
that the police can be Johnny on the spot and be right on the scene for the
simplest of infractions. Its sounds like there were more people interested in
bitching and moaning rather than engaging in meaningful dialogue for meaningful
solutions. When folk are read to have a discussion about solutions that's when
I will attend.

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "revital mitchell" <<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎15/‎2013 11:48 PM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I am appalled at the inexcusable and disrespectful behavior of some of our
community participants this evening at the meeting. It seemed that some
just needed to hear their own voice and not seek solutions!
Screaming at the panel and storming off won't do us any good, if we want to
be heard! MOST of what I heard today were complaints and blame....how is
that supposed to open a line of communication? The police, the city
prosecutors , the Mayor and council members were there to listen to our
concerns. Do people truly expect every alley, street and home to be guarded
and patrolled? if your car was broken into under your nose, how is a police
officer supposed to know about it? There aren't enough police officers to
cover every single city street - it is insane to expect them to!
Also, it sounded like many people play the 'Victim' (absolutely, no
disrespect intended to those who actually were victims of a crime) Take
action, stop whining and don't expect the public officials to play GOD!
some of the attendant's expectations are unrealistic. Play a part in the
solution. Let us be an all inclusive neighborhood. A place where diversity
is celebrated, not feared.
I believe one of our problems is not the lack of programs out there, it is
the lack of information. There are many non-for-profit organizations that
are struggling to find volunteers. If some of these youth parents had
information, and/or education regarding some of the programs offered to
teens this summer, if we directed our efforts towards guiding, and keeping
those kids busy in programs that are fun, and engaging to kids their age -
we may see a totally different picture....
So again, we may want to work on communicating the information to the
parents of high-risk children, so they are never left alone to be fresh
bait for gangs. You may think it is 'their' children, and that 'they'
should be taking care of them - well, that horrible assault is a result of
US not paying attention and making it 'our' problem.. Enough said!
 
*
*
 
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement
Leader <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>
> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
> tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want
> to see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>
> RevDev
> Pastor Devin Miller
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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Revital Mitchell
Payne Phalen, St. Paul
About/contact Revital Mitchell:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5mm1XXxjJVjvTsVvRwjX2x
 
View full topic or share:
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I agree. It reminded me a little bit like Mondale speaking at Wellstone's
funeral. The people there were there for healing . It was hot and crowded and
it wasn't a good venue for you to speak.
 
I like a good feather ruffling now and again, but last night was the wrong kind
of bird.
 
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

Share

Tim Holden, I was one that reacted negatively to your statement last night.
Not because you were not from the East Side or because what you were saying
wasn't important. It was because the first thing out of your mouth was a
campaign statement. That was absolutely NOT the time or the place to be
running for office. Say what you want, attend any meeting you want, but do not
announce you are running for an office, then maybe you will be welcome to
speak.
 
It was a great turnout and it shows that there are many, many issues that are
having an effect on a lot of people. I am glad my neighbors talk to each other
& make an effort to keep the area clean and participate in things. But it
really is up to each of us to make the difference we want to see happen. Be a
good neighbor, smile once in awhile, pick up the garbage on the street in front
of your house, report illegal activity and things will start looking up!

Share

I don't get your response? If you're not a gang member, you should have no
worries. Anyone is welcome in our neighborhood, there's a lot of good people of
all races here. Sorry you took that the wrong way.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tamara Villegas" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:46:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
No wonder people don't show up to "your" meetings! Doesn't sound welcoming to
me. Good luck at your session to get us out of "your" neighborhood!
 
Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
> the
> > liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
> are
> > out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> > moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> > upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
> coddling
> > these hoodlums.
 
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Alec Timmerman <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen <stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Thu, Aug 15, 2013 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
One thing that is troubling to me is the level of services for youth on the
astside. With literally half the school age kids all being on the
astside, we should have, it seems, concentrated in our neighborhood, half
he stuff to do for kids. The cops may need to stop problems once they
appen, but we also need to look for solutions to prevent the problems.
My son had a park and rec soccer camp in a Highland Park. I had rarely been
o that area and didn't even recognize it as part of the Saint Paul I know.
eanwhile our Eastview Rec center is not really vibrant, even though my
ids love playing there.
We love playing at Phalen, but why are all the super fancy water parks all
ithin a block of Lexington or way over in Battle Creek, while Phalen Beach
oesn't seem to be seeing any amenities or improvements?
Anyway, we need to remind our council and neighbors that the youth of this
ity are concentrated in OUR neighborhood.
hanks,
lec
 
n Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:48 AM, MPL Specialties <
<email obscured>> wrote:
> It's really hard for the cops to enforce the laws when the upper
adminstration won't back them, meaning our Chief of Police and the Mayor.
We have to back our Street Cops.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:56:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
MPL, I would definitely agree with your curfew law change along with the
fine for the parents, if there are any. In addition I think that enforcing
laws already on the books (littering, loitering) should be beefed up.
 
The biggest thing for the community to do is when we SEE something, SAY
something. Just call. This also depends on the police to listen and be
prompt. If there is reports of a group of gang members, dont send one squad
car because they all just run the other direction. Maybe send several and
surround the group so that violators can actually be caught.
 
I really hope tonight's meeting is not just a big group of white people
venting. The black community must be engaged in this because change must
come within if it is to last. Please invite any black teachers, business
owners, police officers, community leaders, etc. you know live on the east
side, or anywhere. These youth need to know there are role models out there
and care about their future.
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, MPL Specialties <
<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Luke,
>
>
> I agree with most of your input and thank you for listing some solutions.
> Keep in mind, the police can only do what they are allowed to do. With
the
> liberal judges and mayor, these people just get a slap on the hand and
are
> out before the reports are written. The police are frustrated and their
> moral is low. They need a pat on the back and they won't get it from the
> upper management. We need the city officials to stand up and stop
coddling
> these hoodlums.
>
>
> 1. Change the curfew. "In by 10", for anyone under 18. If caught, taken
to
> Juvenile. Parents are fined $ 100 for each kid. That money alone could
put
> another officer on the east side.
>
>
> 2. Give police the authority to enforce the laws and not be judged by
> Internal Affairs.
>
>
> 3. Tell the Mayor enough is enough.
>
>
> This is a great neighborhood, and we deserve the same as Highland or
Grand
> Ave.
>
>
> Stand up and be heard.
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Luke Ibis" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:14:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> I am new to the forum and I appreciate that our legislators and city
> officials are paying attention to this situation and taking some action.
I
> also appreciate the suggestions put forward by Steven and others that
this
> problem be dealt with holistically.
>
> The East Side is an unappreciated jewel in St. Paul. The only thing
> holding us back is the perception that it's a dangerous place populated
by
> some percentage of unsavory people. It's high time that City government
> paid more attention to quality of life issues on the East Side and helped
> us provide a community that is safe, inclusive, welcoming, and "open for
> business."
>
> All that said, it's clear there is a criminal element involved here, but
> big crimes often start with a series of small ones. We should all expect
> the St. Paul Police to enforce the laws that are on the books...this
starts
> with enforcing the laws related to littering, noise, loitering, trespass,
> and curfews and moves up from there. There is absolutely no legitimate
> reason why roving bands of young people need to be out past curfew or
> congregating in parking lots, on street corners, or at bus stops. A
better
> quality of life for all of us starts with the consistent enforcement of
> these basic laws.
>
> Second, we need to hold the City and the police accountable for enforcing
> the laws related nuisance rental properties. How many times have the
police
> been called to this house in the past? How many complaints are on the
> books? If this is a nuisance property the landlord should be dealt with
and
> the property closed up. We should not accept the presence of nuisance
> properties in our neighborhoods.
>
> Third I believe we must demand aggressive, systemic policing of known
> trouble spots and gang areas, especially on evenings and weekends. We
need
> a strong law enforcement presence that enforces the law consistently.
Let's
> get the cops out of their cars and on foot, walking a beat and engaging
> with the community. If someone looks suspicious I want the police to stop
> them, talk to them, tell them that the community is watching, tell them
> there will be consequence to violations of the law. I want the police
> visibly patrolling our neighborhoods, and I want to know that they will
> take care of the small problems so that the big ones don't arise. As
> neighbors we must report all suspicious activities and people on our
> streets, and we must expect a swift, robust response to those calls.
>
> We all know we have a problem here, and the police know this too. We want
> safe streets - the voices in our community who will support this approach
> are louder and more numerous than those who don't. This is where "the
most
> livable city" sloganeering hits the road, and we have to demand it all
the
> way to the top if necessary.
>
> That's my two cents...and I will try my darndest to be at the meeting
> tonight.
>
> Luke Ibis
> Payne Phalen, Saint Paul
> About/contact Luke Ibis:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5brL4nzeY2KfAanByxGGJt
>
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> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3VlYJrgyHWBsrzD1onzf5A
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Sidewalk
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> Kathy Kieffer
> Railroad Island, St. Paul
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Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
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Tammy Villegas
Payne Phalen, St. Paul
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Bravo!
 
This post is the best argument about starting to look into our community at
the base. Bad landlords and bad tenants devalue our values.
 
I have many posts on Aidpage.com talking about your points of interests and
then some. Just keyword "paralegal" and look for "Brighan" for all of my
papers I typed in college.
 
Shannon Wadding

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: <<email obscured>>
To: <stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
 
> Kathy and Danette,
>
> Kudos to both of you for your comments, and I'm glad you'll be there
> tonight!
>
> But before we generalize groups, lets make it select groups such as
> absentee (slum) landlords.
>
> I am retirement age but can't afford to, work full time (and beyond) and
> owner occupy a duplex since 1992 when I sold the east side single family
> home after a divorce that I'd lived in since 1975. In other words, I've
> been around awhile. I have also volunteered for the community, currently
> serve on the D5 board and CPED and it's a constant struggle without seeing
> any/much improvement in crime in the area - that I hoped for when I bought
> the duplex. It's a high maintenance Victorian that is a lot of work.
>
> Not all landlords are bad - though, arguably, many in this area are. They
> live in the burbs and don't care who they rent to. Some of us care and
> struggle hard with getting good tenants who want to live here - due to the
> very issues you name.
>
> Since I care, screen tenants heavily, evict the bad ones, I've sat on my
> huge 3BR rental property - vacant - for the better part of the past 7-8
> years. Know what that's cost me? 10s of thousands of dollars. Yes, this
> is personal. After being vacant several years in the housing boom where
> eveyone bought one, one tenant was there a year, left with no notice
> (after all, she bought a house and "didn't know when it was going to
> close" right...) and was a nightmare/impossible to deal with tenant. With
> no vacate notice, I kept her security deposit and so informed her by
> letter within the legal time frame. Over a year later, she sued me - and
> got it!!? My attorney said it was a slam dunk for me and wouldn't go to
> court with me/charge me - then could not believe the judge favored her -
> that's what Ramsey County does, folks! The tenant is almost always
> favored - my experience and that of many landlords I have talked with.
> Should have gone to Judge Judy who doesn't mess around with bad
> tenants.
>
> It sat vacant again for years, as I could not find a suitable tenant I was
> willing to rent to. Two years later, with reservations, I rented it to a
> single mom - who was there 59 days - she wanted to move another 10-12
> people in to help her with rent, even though she could afford it - in
> spite of my using the strongest lease available and being very clear up
> front. Another year and a half vacant, then a tenant last year for six
> month who couldn't pay his rent and I terminated his lease. What's the
> problem? The reputation of this area - sometimes deserved, sometimes
> not - which doesn't have a lot of decent tenants rushing in to sign up to
> live here. Yes, there are some. But a large portion of the community is
> bad rental propertys with equally bad landlords. But let's not put them
> all in that mold, I know a lot of other good, decent landlords who have
> struggled the same way I have this past decade.
>
> Yes, We who live here know the area for what it is, good and bad. People
> from the "outside looking in" just see the bad and the news headlines and
> know they can go find another area to live in. So it's a vicious circle.
> We ALL have an investment in community here with homes, businesses,
> LIVES - and one that's not paying off well - we deserve better. QUALITY
> OF LIFE ISSUES!!
>
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: MPL Specialties
> <<email obscured>> To:
> stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Thu, 15 Aug 2013
> 15:23:00 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault You hit
> the nail on the head! I'm glad you are coming tonight. We have to focus on
> the crime and the troubled houses and I think that's where our concern
> lies. No kid should be afraid to go out and play, nor should people be
> afraid to work in this area. We have to make sure at this meeting that
> they don't push their agenda on us, it's OUR meeting and they need to
> listen to our concerns. So glad you're coming. ~Kathy Kieffer~ MPL
> Specialties 549 Minnehaha Ave. E St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danette Allrich"
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Thursday, August 15,
> 2013 9:22:10 AM Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault I am
> definitely going to the meeting tonight. I am a resident of the lowe
> r east side and have been concerned for a while now with the escalation of
> what I am seeing happen in my neighborhood. I cannot wait to both speak
> about what I see and listen to what some of the solutions might be. I love
> where I live, I love the diversity and absolutely enjoy this area. I just
> don't like feeling scared or having my 8 year old ask me to avoid driving
> up our street because he doesn't like to see what is happening on a daily
> basis. Nobody should live in fear. They sure don't have this type of
> environment in more 'expensive' neighborhoods, why is it happening here?
> One question I do want an answer to is how can there be such a high
> concentration of rental homes/units in this area? I am all for affordable
> housing & feel everyone has the right to live where they want. But I see
> house after house in such poor shape and NO ONE deserves to live in
> squalor because that is all they can afford. There are too many landlords
> that will rent to anyone as long as they get the rent
> paid. That really isn't fair to the neighborhood. Hope to see everyone
> tonight!! Danette Allrich Westminster/Case, Saint Paul About/contact
> Danette Allrich: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/2f4Bh5KQ4fcAsqfOPED9bq * Our
> BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
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> Kieffer Railroad Island, St. Paul About/contact Kathy Kieffer:
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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
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To Tim Holden,
 
I recall you heckling and shouting at the Mayor during the groundbreaking
ceremony for the Saints Ballpark not too long ago. I guess when you're the one
shouting at someone trying to speak that's not disrespecful, but when it's done
to you, it is.
 
When you show respect to others, they'll show it you. At least that's what
I've always found to be true.

Share

Danette/ALL
 
 
Thank you for comment.
 
I am very direct when standing and speaking to anyone.
 
My run for Mayor should not have triggered the response it did!
 
I was at the meeting to give input to the folks at the main table.
 
Some in attendance may have learned or started to think about things
differently if I would have had the Oppurtunity to speak.
 
Close minded attitudes will not fix the many problems our city is facing.
 
If my introduction was so BAD
Solutions/interaction may be difficult to come by.
 
I will still work for everyone in all areas of Saint Paul!
 
Thank you again!!
 
 
Tim Holden
Everyone's Mayoral Candidate

Rest of post

Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 16, 2013, at 8:37 AM, "Danette Allrich" <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Tim Holden, I was one that reacted negatively to your statement last night.
Not because you were not from the East Side or because what you were saying
wasn't important. It was because the first thing out of your mouth was a
campaign statement. That was absolutely NOT the time or the place to be
running for office. Say what you want, attend any meeting you want, but do not
announce you are running for an office, then maybe you will be welcome to
speak.
>
> It was a great turnout and it shows that there are many, many issues that are
having an effect on a lot of people. I am glad my neighbors talk to each other
& make an effort to keep the area clean and participate in things. But it
really is up to each of us to make the difference we want to see happen. Be a
good neighbor, smile once in awhile, pick up the garbage on the street in front
of your house, report illegal activity and things will start looking up!
> Danette Allrich
> Westminster/Case, Saint Paul
> About/contact Danette Allrich:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5cY3VIngJxCUGYlq7GkqHF
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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Mr. Tim,
 
FYI--The first words out of your mouth were 'I'm running for Mayor' or words to
that effect.  That immediately set the crowd off thinking you were there
campaigning instead of adding to the dialogue/soutions for east side.  Also you
stated your desire to offer prayers to victims did not fit into evenings
agenda.

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
 
 
From: "Tim" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:31:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Pastor Miller/ALL
 
I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the violence And lack of
community safety tonight.
 
It was unfortunate that PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so
UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!!
 
The meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!!
 
I live in the Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE
Break-ins within the last year!!!!
 
The district council representative at the microphone did not want to let me
speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
 
Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!!
 
I WILL change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I become
Mayor!!!!
 
This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and affect
positive change!
 
Find a leader for the district council
that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION
WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
HAD I been allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to
the victim and his family for this tragic event.
 
The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in the community NOT willing
to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point of view.
 
This is the reason why I am running for Mayor.  ALL people deserve RESPECT and
MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!!
 
I will work for EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few!
 
I again would like the victim and his family to know that they are in my
prayers.
 
I will also pray for ALL those that did not respect and allow input from
EVERYONE INVITED.
 
Peace and Love to ALL!
 
Tim Holden
EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>
> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to
see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>
> RevDev
> Pastor Devin Miller
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>
> View full topic or share:
>  http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>    http://blog.e-democracy.org/posts/2061
>
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Tim Holden
Como
About/contact Tim Holden:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN
 
View full topic or share:
  http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3ajtP77Clppx0MJUNiQthm
 
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Jim/All
 
I can say all comments last night should have educated the group if everyone
had a open mind and LISTENED.
 
Multimillion dollar Ballparks and people being forced to pay for the insanity
is much different than speaking to the victims involved in this unfortunate
insanity.
 
Is heckling the by product of trying to HELP the East side,
Trying to Say how sorry I was to the victim and his family?
 
Priorities Are really what it's all about!
 
Your comment are appreciated!
 
Thank you for your input.
 
Tim Holden
Everyone's Mayoral Candidate

Rest of post

Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 16, 2013, at 11:23 AM, "Jim Buscher" <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> To Tim Holden,
>
> I recall you heckling and shouting at the Mayor during the groundbreaking
ceremony for the Saints Ballpark not too long ago. I guess when you're the one
shouting at someone trying to speak that's not disrespecful, but when it's done
to you, it is.
>
> When you show respect to others, they'll show it you. At least that's what
I've always found to be true.
>
> Jim Buscher
> Downtown, St. Paul
> About/contact Jim Buscher:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/5wlufblcHVvXvIE0vqxmRk
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/2kP9QkTyYoQZ0eXqSsdDBi
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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Hi everyone - if I could change the subject...
 
Last night, the Chief mentioned the SPPD's newly refocused efforts to curb the
uptick in mob-style crime/assaults in the city. I was doing some research on
the subject and found an article dated 8/10/2011 at Fox News which was written
for a national audience:
 
http://www.foxnews.com​/us​/2011​/08​/10​/flashmob​-attacks​-in​-us​-cities​-raise​-questions​-over​-possible​-race​-motivation
 
Two things:
1) It looks like this type of crime has been around for awhile and we're just
seeing it here now. Are police departments set up to anticipate the arrival of
such trends? If so, being more proactive would have been helpful, but I doubt
the resources are not allocated or present.
2) The article explicitly mentions that investigators in other cities had
actively attempted to determine if such crimes were motivated by race. The can
of worms is already open - why not have that discussion now in our city??
 
Also, I read this entry of The Hill's Congress Blog, which specifically notes
that we are NOT talking about race in Ray's case, and postulates why.
 
http://thehill.com​/blogs​/congress​-blog​/civil​-rights​/317229​-the​-uncomfortable​-silence​-surrounding​-ray​-widstrand​-
 
Thanks for your time!

Share

Lenovak/ALL
 
The East side crime problem begs for NEW leadership.
 
I am thankful for all the great comments and input!
 
Thank you
 
Tim Holden
Everyone's Mayoral Candidate

Rest of post

Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 16, 2013, at 12:44 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
 
>
>
> Mr. Tim,
>
> FYI--The first words out of your mouth were 'I'm running for Mayor' or words
to that effect. That immediately set the crowd off thinking you were there
campaigning instead of adding to the dialogue/soutions for east side. Also you
stated your desire to offer prayers to victims did not fit into evenings
agenda.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "Tim" <<email obscured>>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:31:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> Pastor Miller/ALL
>
> I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the violence And lack of
community safety tonight.
>
> It was unfortunate that PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so
UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!!
>
> The meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!!
>
> I live in the Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE
Break-ins within the last year!!!!
>
> The district council representative at the microphone did not want to let me
speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
>
> Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!!
>
> I WILL change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I
become Mayor!!!!
>
> This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and
affect positive change!
>
> Find a leader for the district council
> that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION
WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> HAD I been allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to
the victim and his family for this tragic event.
>
> The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in the community NOT willing
to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point of view.
>
> This is the reason why I am running for Mayor. ALL people deserve RESPECT
and MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!!
>
> I will work for EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few!
>
> I again would like the victim and his family to know that they are in my
prayers.
>
> I will also pray for ALL those that did not respect and allow input from
EVERYONE INVITED.
>
> Peace and Love to ALL!
>
> Tim Holden
> EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>>
>> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to
see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>>
>> RevDev
>> Pastor Devin Miller
>> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
>> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
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quotes)
>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
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>
> Tim Holden
> Como
> About/contact Tim Holden:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN
>
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> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3ajtP77Clppx0MJUNiQthm
>
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> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
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> Loretta Novak
> Hayden Heights, St Paul
> About/contact Loretta Novak:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4ON9R8h2WuPw9oTqkqWbYI
>
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Tim -
 
We get it. The community has heard you, many, many times now. It's time to
stop. Really. This forum has heard you, free speech and all, but is not the
place for your continued cry for political platform.
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!
 
----- Original Message ----- From: Tim <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:41:03
-0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault Lenovak/ALL The East
side crime problem begs for NEW leadership. I am thankful for all the great
comments and input! Thank you Tim Holden Everyone's Mayoral Candidate Sent
from my iPhone On Aug 16, 2013, at 12:44 PM, <email obscured> wrote: > >
> Mr. Tim, > > FYI--The first words out of your mouth were 'I'm running for
Mayor' or words to that effect. That immediately set the crowd off thinking
you were there campaigning instead of adding to the dialogue/soutions for east
side. Also you stated your desire to offer prayers to victims did not fit into
evenings agenda. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Tim"
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org > Sent: Thursday, August 15,
2013 10:31:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault > > Pastor
Miller/ALL > > I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the
violence And lack of community safety tonight. > > It was unfortunate that
PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!! > > The
meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!! > > I live in the
Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE Break-ins within
the last year!!!! > > The district council representative at the microphone
did not want to let me speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
> > Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!! > > I WILL
change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I become
Mayor!!!! > > This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to
engage and affect positive change! > > Find a leader for the district
council > that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a
INVITATION WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > HAD I been allowed to speak I
would have said my heart and prayers go out to the victim and his family for
this tragic event. > > The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in
the community NOT willing to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point
of view. > > This is the reason why I am running for Mayor. ALL people
deserve RESPECT and MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!! > > I will work for EVERYONE in
SAINT PAUL not a select few! > > I again would like the victim and his
family to know that they are in my prayers. > > I will also pray for ALL
those that did not respect and allow input from EVERYONE INVITED. > > Peace
and Love to ALL! > > Tim Holden > EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE > > >
> > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor
Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader" wrote: > >> Revital, EXCELLENT words
of ACTION!! >> >> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be
at the meeting tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the
change we want to see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc
call it forth! >> >> RevDev >> Pastor Devin Miller >> Saint Paul, Saint
Paul >> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg >> >> View full
topic or share: >>
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L >> >> * Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk >>
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 >> >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - >> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support
Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net > > Tim Holden > Como > About/contact
Tim Holden: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN > > View
full topic or share: >
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3ajtP77Clppx0MJUNiQthm > > * Our
BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk >
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net > > Loretta Novak > Hayden Heights, St
Paul > About/contact Loretta Novak:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4ON9R8h2WuPw9oTqkqWbYI > > View full topic
or share: > http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5HxSoQiLUgjXTZrt9GFoeN >
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk >
http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061 > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Emily - Thanks for posting that, very refreshing and a great look at what is
being done by our leadership. It's easy to be upset, but more important to be
proactive.
 
Tim - I probably speak for numerous people in the East Side when I say stop it.
Just stop it. Or if you can't stop it, then at least spell check your emails.
Even so, start a new thread. You're stinking up the representative course of
action for a specific problem with political garbage. We get it, you're running
for Mayor but this specific thread is about our communities dialogue concerning
violence on the East Side.
 
Revital Mitchell - YES! I would like to add and maybe gain feedback about how
this could be positively encouraged with face to face dialogue. I love the tech
side of our correspondence as of late, but really the community (as is shown
elsewhere in MN and across the country) will become a positive force of
influence if we all gain trust through dialogue and positivity. It's hard to
lash out to those whom you feel safe around and/or trust. A meeting of the
minds if you will.
 
Sincerely,
 
J Samuel Clark
IT Support Technician
McNally Smith College of Music
 
On Aug 16, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Tim <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Lenovak/ALL
>
> The East side crime problem begs for NEW leadership.
>
> I am thankful for all the great comments and input!
>
> Thank you
>
> Tim Holden
> Everyone's Mayoral Candidate
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 16, 2013, at 12:44 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Tim,
>>
>> FYI--The first words out of your mouth were 'I'm running for Mayor' or words
to that effect. That immediately set the crowd off thinking you were there
campaigning instead of adding to the dialogue/soutions for east side. Also you
stated your desire to offer prayers to victims did not fit into evenings
agenda.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>
>> From: "Tim" <<email obscured>>
>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:31:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>>
>> Pastor Miller/ALL
>>
>> I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the violence And lack of
community safety tonight.
>>
>> It was unfortunate that PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so
UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> The meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!!
>>
>> I live in the Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE
Break-ins within the last year!!!!
>>
>> The district council representative at the microphone did not want to let me
speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
>>
>> Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!!
>>
>> I WILL change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I
become Mayor!!!!
>>
>> This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and
affect positive change!
>>
>> Find a leader for the district council
>> that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION
WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> HAD I been allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to
the victim and his family for this tragic event.
>>
>> The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in the community NOT
willing to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point of view.
>>
>> This is the reason why I am running for Mayor. ALL people deserve RESPECT
and MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!!
>>
>> I will work for EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few!
>>
>> I again would like the victim and his family to know that they are in my
prayers.
>>
>> I will also pray for ALL those that did not respect and allow input from
EVERYONE INVITED.
>>
>> Peace and Love to ALL!
>>
>> Tim Holden
>> EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>>> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>>>
>>> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to
see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>>>
>>> RevDev
>>> Pastor Devin Miller
>>> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
>>> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>>>
>>> View full topic or share:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>>>
>>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
>>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
>>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> Tim Holden
>> Como
>> About/contact Tim Holden:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3ajtP77Clppx0MJUNiQthm
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> Loretta Novak
>> Hayden Heights, St Paul
>> About/contact Loretta Novak:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4ON9R8h2WuPw9oTqkqWbYI
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5HxSoQiLUgjXTZrt9GFoeN
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)
>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
> Tim Holden
> Como
> About/contact Tim Holden:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/4wQfQiQF4jQIXbvyya9JqJ
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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New leadership? Or awareness and understanding as a first step.
 
There are many spokes in this wheel - political, financial, public safety,
personal responsibility to name a few. All should be addressed in a
comprehensive way by the immediate community and the City. This will take time
and effort.
 
This very unfortunate incident has forced us to actually face the reality of
our neighborhood.
 
The meeting last night could bring about some positive outcomes if the effort
is more than a puff of smoke.
On Aug 16, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Tim wrote:
 
> Lenovak/ALL
>
> The East side crime problem begs for NEW leadership.
>
> I am thankful for all the great comments and input!
>
> Thank you
>
> Tim Holden
> Everyone's Mayoral Candidate
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 16, 2013, at 12:44 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mr. Tim,
>>
>> FYI--The first words out of your mouth were 'I'm running for Mayor' or words
to that effect. That immediately set the crowd off thinking you were there
campaigning instead of adding to the dialogue/soutions for east side. Also you
stated your desire to offer prayers to victims did not fit into evenings
agenda.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>
>> From: "Tim" <<email obscured>>
>> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:31:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>>
>> Pastor Miller/ALL
>>
>> I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss the violence And lack of
community safety tonight.
>>
>> It was unfortunate that PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so
UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> The meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!!
>>
>> I live in the Hamline Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE
Break-ins within the last year!!!!
>>
>> The district council representative at the microphone did not want to let me
speak as she stated I am not a East side resident????
>>
>> Please HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!!
>>
>> I WILL change this closed minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I
become Mayor!!!!
>>
>> This ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and
affect positive change!
>>
>> Find a leader for the district council
>> that will work and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION
WELCOMES ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>> HAD I been allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to
the victim and his family for this tragic event.
>>
>> The problem I witnessed tonight was a select few in the community NOT
willing to listening to everyone's ideas, feelings and point of view.
>>
>> This is the reason why I am running for Mayor. ALL people deserve RESPECT
and MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!!
>>
>> I will work for EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few!
>>
>> I again would like the victim and his family to know that they are in my
prayers.
>>
>> I will also pray for ALL those that did not respect and allow input from
EVERYONE INVITED.
>>
>> Peace and Love to ALL!
>>
>> Tim Holden
>> EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>>> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!!
>>>
>>> If we want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting
tonight and Arlington Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to
see is already in the area. We just have to support it anc call it forth!
>>>
>>> RevDev
>>> Pastor Devin Miller
>>> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
>>> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>>>
>>> View full topic or share:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1f113GTleZ0EC9PEYi3f6L
>>>
>>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
>>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
>>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> Tim Holden
>> Como
>> About/contact Tim Holden:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/3ajtP77Clppx0MJUNiQthm
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> Loretta Novak
>> Hayden Heights, St Paul
>> About/contact Loretta Novak:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4ON9R8h2WuPw9oTqkqWbYI
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5HxSoQiLUgjXTZrt9GFoeN
>>
>> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
>> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Post: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org or "Reply-to-All" to
comment.
>> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)
>> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/groups​/stpaul​-paynephalen
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Need help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
> Tim Holden
> Como
> About/contact Tim Holden:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/4VbioYdlMjL3KuahLb1ZLN
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/4wQfQiQF4jQIXbvyya9JqJ
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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comment.

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Hi All-
One thing that has really made a difference in the blocks around my house is
'resident participation'. We talk to each other, make sure we know who lives
where & report things, talk about issues, exchange information.
 
When I first moved in, 13 years ago, we had a huge litter issue. It was as if
no one understood that by throwing that fast-food bag out of your car window
was making my block look bad. So every Sunday morning I would take a garbage
bag and walk around and pick up garbage. Another neighbor encouraged us to
'adopt' the local elementary school, which was an eyesore at times. Very
quickly things started looking better. People took better care of their lawns.
Planted flowers. TALKED to each other. If someone's yard is terrible, maybe
ask that neighbor if you can help them out. Worst case scenario, report
things to the city (code enforcement) if you see a property that is complete
disrepair & they need a reminder. It works really well to do it online.
 
It really is up to each resident to do what they can to make a difference.
That is the only way things will really change.

Share

amen
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: <email obscured>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 2:14:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Tim -
 
We get it. The community has heard you, many, many times now. It's time to
stop. Really. This forum has heard you, free speech and all, but is not the
place for your continued cry for political platform.
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!
 
----- Original Message ----- From: Tim <<email obscured>> To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 18:41:03 -0000
(UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault Lenovak/ALL The East side
crime problem begs for NEW leadership. I am thankful for all the great comments
and input! Thank you Tim Holden Everyone's Mayoral Candidate Sent from my
iPhone On Aug 16, 2013, at 12:44 PM, <email obscured> wrote: > > > Mr. Tim,
> > FYI--The first words out of your mouth were 'I'm running for Mayor' or
words to that effect. That immediately set the crowd off thinking you were
there campaigning instead of adding to the dialogue/soutions for east side.
Also you stated your desire to offer prayers to victims did not fit into
evenings agenda. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Tim" > To:
stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013
10:31:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assaul
t > > Pastor Miller/ALL > > I was glad the East side held a meeting to discuss
the violence And lack of community safety tonight. > > It was unfortunate that
PEOPLE who do not live on the East side were so UNWELCOME!!!!!!!!! > > The
meeting invitation stated EVERYONE was welcome!!!!! > > I live in the Hamline
Midway and have had my own problems with crime, THREE Break-ins within the last
year!!!! > > The district council representative at the microphone did not want
to let me speak as she stated I am not a East side resident???? > > Please
HONOR &RESPECT ALL and review YOUR INVITATION!!!! > > I WILL change this closed
minded unwillingness to listen behavior when I become Mayor!!!! > > This
ignorance is what will hold back people ever wanting to engage and affect
positive change! > > Find a leader for the district council > that will work
and LISTEN to everyone's input especially when a INVITATION WELCOMES
ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > HAD I been
allowed to speak I would have said my heart and prayers go out to the victim
and his family for this tragic event. > > The problem I witnessed tonight was a
select few in the community NOT willing to listening to everyone's ideas,
feelings and point of view. > > This is the reason why I am running for Mayor.
ALL people deserve RESPECT and MUST BE LISTENED TOO!!! > > I will work for
EVERYONE in SAINT PAUL not a select few! > > I again would like the victim and
his family to know that they are in my prayers. > > I will also pray for ALL
those that did not respect and allow input from EVERYONE INVITED. > > Peace and
Love to ALL! > > Tim Holden > EVERYONE'S MAYOR CANDIDATE > > > > > > > Sent
from my iPhone > > On Aug 15, 2013, at 3:35 PM, "Pastor Devin Miller, Forum
Engagement Leader" wrote: > >> Revital, EXCELLENT words of ACTION!! >> >> If we
want change, we must DEMAND it. I hope you will be at the meeting tonight and
Arlingto
n Hills Lutheran Church. I believe the change we want to see is already in the
area. We just have to support it anc call it forth! >> >> RevDev >> Pastor
Devin Miller >> Saint Paul, Saint Paul >> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller,
Forum Engagement Leader: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
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Nice concept Danette

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "Danette Allrich" <<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎16/‎2013 3:18 PM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Hi All-
One thing that has really made a difference in the blocks around my house is
'resident participation'. We talk to each other, make sure we know who lives
where & report things, talk about issues, exchange information.
 
When I first moved in, 13 years ago, we had a huge litter issue. It was as if
no one understood that by throwing that fast-food bag out of your car window
was making my block look bad. So every Sunday morning I would take a garbage
bag and walk around and pick up garbage. Another neighbor encouraged us to
'adopt' the local elementary school, which was an eyesore at times. Very
quickly things started looking better. People took better care of their lawns.
Planted flowers. TALKED to each other. If someone's yard is terrible, maybe
ask that neighbor if you can help them out. Worst case scenario, report
things to the city (code enforcement) if you see a property that is complete
disrepair & they need a reminder. It works really well to do it online.
 
It really is up to each resident to do what they can to make a difference.
That is the only way things will really change.
Danette Allrich
Westminster/Case, Saint Paul
About/contact Danette Allrich:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3x5B96VVc87fWJwxa69lbd
 
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5V56grm8uSpEblo88ppKg6
 
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I came to attend the Thursday meeting at 6:30. It was clear that space was an
issue. Amy Brendmoen voiced to me a suggestion before which I have thought
about using a webinar or other social media for these meetings. It would allow
attendance for anyone. Their input would be recorded, yet unhelpful input
could also be filtered from the actual public hearing. The venue was generous,
but it was not flexible enough for the turnout.
 
Thanks everybody for linking the closing and consolidation of recreation
centers with the recent events. A police presence is fine and dandy, but they
address the surface sores from the primary issue of unstable support structures
for our youth. I hope our city council and Parks/Rec takes heed.
 
I have started a conversation with Eric Thompson about a center availability.
Since personnel is the primary cost with center availability, I proposed
pairing a city employee with a Park Reserve volunteer. Like the Police
Reserves, these volunteers could expand the effective coverage of centers and
thereby the center availability could increase. I hope this idea comes to be.
 
I hate to suggest another group/meeting, but a citizen commission including
public officials could maybe review the events/other data and propose some
policy changes from the neighborhood. I would feel more comfortable with any
changes rather than accepting statements from our public officials that they
will be cracking down in our area. It seems the bad event - meeting -
unsatisfied result cycle has occurred in the recent past.
 
Ed Davis

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Revital, Derrick, and J, all of you had summerized the meeting well. Nothing
was accomplished and the purpose of the meeting was lost in the personalities
of individuals who felt that the police and public officials were theier
personal resource of protection and provision. Very unfortunate.
Over the next few posts I would like to propose some POSITIVE solutions and see
if WE THE PEOPLE can rally around them. The one good thing about the meeting
and this forum is that people are CONCERNED and for that I am very glad to be a
part of the discussion.
When you see a posting or suggestion that resonates with you let's use the
forum platform to discuss it, tweak it and then look for ways to impliment it
for change.
 
I am willing.....are you??
 
RevDev

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Been ready

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: "Pastor Devin Miller,Forum Engagement Leader"
<<email obscured>>
Sent: ‎8/‎20/‎2013 1:45 PM
To: "stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org"
<stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Revital, Derrick, and J, all of you had summerized the meeting well. Nothing
was accomplished and the purpose of the meeting was lost in the personalities
of individuals who felt that the police and public officials were theier
personal resource of protection and provision. Very unfortunate.
Over the next few posts I would like to propose some POSITIVE solutions and see
if WE THE PEOPLE can rally around them. The one good thing about the meeting
and this forum is that people are CONCERNED and for that I am very glad to be a
part of the discussion.
When you see a posting or suggestion that resonates with you let's use the
forum platform to discuss it, tweak it and then look for ways to impliment it
for change.
 
I am willing.....are you??
 
RevDev
Pastor Devin Miller
Saint Paul, Saint Paul
About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
 
View full topic or share:
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SPNN will be televising the community meeting, schedule info is at www.spnn.org
"Response to Violent Incidents: Payne Phalen community meeting"
 
here's the youtube link:
 

Rest of post

 

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I like that in ya Derrick! Here we GO!
 
Action Steps: Activities for youth
- Community partnerships with rec centers in neighborhoods (funding the use
through local businesses)
- Educational programing within the Centers in partnerhship with the schools
nearby
- Sports and Cultural activities as a suppliment to what schools cannot offer.
Parnerships with local colleges and the Arts Community
 
Action Steps: Curfew Center for Change
- Programing within the Center that will work with the young people sent there
- Treatment offered for those that may be chemically or mentally challenged
- Support Groups for parents to give tools to deal with their youth
 
Action Steps: Neighborhood Action for Community Change
- Block by block talking sessions - Who IS my neighbor?
- Beyond the District - Districts assist in creating Walk and talk - Meet and
Greet tours of the neghborhood to create community
- Monthly happenings and celelbrations: each block will choose a time to have a
National Night out type activity within to celebrate each other. Potluck or
just come out and enjoy the good in each other.
- Porch time: Each block will turn on the light and sit out and just enjoy
being in the neighborhood. Nothing planned except to be outside the house.
 
Action Steps: Positive Community Policing
- Police and community leaders talk to "pursuade" those who are currently on
paper (Parole, just released, felony, etc.) to not get involved in "ANY"
negative activity (even jaywalking) or else they will be "Removed." Community
is there to let them know there are other things they can do that are positive
and helpful to the neighborhood and community and that if they are willing to
change the community is willing and able to help.
- Community/Police Mediation: When there is an incident where the victim and
perpetrator are known, the community comes together to address and create
solutions. NO more isloation or lone ranger mentality.
- Juvenile converstations while on lock down: Commuinity leaders and
neighborhood persons have conversations with the young people while in the
Juvenile Detention Center to express candidly how what they did effected them
and the neighborhood and if they would want to come back here are ther rules to
follow. This means that each neighborhood would have to develop "Standards" to
live by which means conversation and accountability.
 
These are my thoughts......what do you think?
 
RevDev

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Derrick, Pastor Devin Miller,J Samuel Clark - I like your approach. How would
you feel about getting together with the other activists to discuss
options/ideas?
 
Revital

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As much as a I like this forum to empower the community, I think we have
progressed in the conversation to warrant a face to face discussion of all of
the interested stakeholders. The results of the discussion can be shared with
the forum for additional input.
 
Ed Davis

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I agree Ed. We need to have an ACTION MEETING. I think two big things that
need to be created or enhanced are 1) bolstering the rec centers and the
neighborhood through a dynamic group of volunteers from the community, and
2) creating a neighborhood watch walk to "take back the streets," so to
say.
 
I am open to suggestions about this one, but I was thinking getting 3
groups of volunteer residents to do weekly (say, every wednesday from
7-9pm) walks up and down their main streets (Payne, Arcade, 7th). This
would allow us to meet each other, patronize local businesses, and show any
gangs that we are here too and these out OUR STREETS! We would invite
whomever we see along the way to join the movement.
 
Let me know when and where you want to meet. Thanks
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling

Rest of post

 
 
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Edward Davis <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> As much as a I like this forum to empower the community, I think we have
> progressed in the conversation to warrant a face to face discussion of all
> of the interested stakeholders. The results of the discussion can be
> shared with the forum for additional input.
>
> Ed Davis
> Ed Davis
> Lake Phalen - District 5, STP
> About/contact Edward Davis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1Ff6HLfE9DVzwP9bzOtet8
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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That sounds like a good idea, but most of the crime is on Minnehaha, Bedford,
Beaumont & Prebble. Keep that in mind.
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Greiling" <<email obscured>>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 10:41:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I agree Ed. We need to have an ACTION MEETING. I think two big things that
need to be created or enhanced are 1) bolstering the rec centers and the
neighborhood through a dynamic group of volunteers from the community, and
2) creating a neighborhood watch walk to "take back the streets," so to
say.
 
I am open to suggestions about this one, but I was thinking getting 3
groups of volunteer residents to do weekly (say, every wednesday from
7-9pm) walks up and down their main streets (Payne, Arcade, 7th). This
would allow us to meet each other, patronize local businesses, and show any
gangs that we are here too and these out OUR STREETS! We would invite
whomever we see along the way to join the movement.
 
Let me know when and where you want to meet. Thanks
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Edward Davis <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> As much as a I like this forum to empower the community, I think we have
> progressed in the conversation to warrant a face to face discussion of all
> of the interested stakeholders. The results of the discussion can be
> shared with the forum for additional input.
>
> Ed Davis
> Ed Davis
> Lake Phalen - District 5, STP
> About/contact Edward Davis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
>
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1Ff6HLfE9DVzwP9bzOtet8
>
> * Our BeNeighbors/E-Democracy email newsletter - Stories from the Sidewalk
> http://blog.e-democracy.org​/posts​/2061
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Ben Greiling
Dayton's Bluff, St Paul
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Hi- I am interested in doing 'action' walks or whatever you end up calling
them. I see 2 areas that need us- off of Minnehaha- Preble and Bedford for
sure (we could meet at the Eastern police station & just take walk a couple of
blocks). I would LOVE to have a 'litter pick up' at the same time!
 
The other area around where I live that needs attention is right off of Payne
at Case Avenue. Lots of loitering, lots of litter. PLEASE let me know if
something gets planned- I want to be involved & know I can grab a couple of
neighbors & bring them with as well. Thanks!

Share

Good afternoon family!
 
I am currently on a little vacation but as you can see I could not stay away
from the action! I agree with all that has been said in that we need an ACTION
MEETING to strategically discuss what needs to happen.
The walks and the rec center revitalization efforts need input from all
stakeholders; I don't want the actions taken in the short term to fade away.
 
I will be back on Monday. I know that School Board Member Keith Hardy is
sharing thoughts with Councilmember Bostrom and Lantry as well as
Superintendent Silva that I placed here a few days ago so the momentum is
building for some real sustained positive change to occur. Upon my return I
would like to move forward with the gathering of like minded people at a
general location within the Eastside. If someone can look for space where we
can meet and eat that would be GREAT!!
 
In the meantime, might I suggest that those who would like to "test run" the
community walks start this weekend. Get some neighbors together ad just walk
your block or 3. It's great exercise good conversation and you can gather intel
with your eyes and feet.
 
It doesn't take a lot of people to change a situation, it just takes COMMITTED
PEOPLE ready for CHANGE!!
 
Let's Engage!
RevDev

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I AM BACK FAMILY!!!
 
On the post regarding the September 19th meeting hosted by D5 Planning Council,
there is some energy behind meeting before that date to discuss actions and
perhaps what I have outlined.
 
Please go to that topic, read some of the posts, and place some dates that you
may be able to meet after Labor Day. Arlington Hills is being looked at as the
possible site for the meeting.
 
I am glad to be back, and I am ready to.....wait for it.....
 
ENGAGE!!!
 
RevDev
 
(Keith, has there been any response??)

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Lets rock n roll REV! I work evenings (3-11pm) on only wednesday of labor
day week. We should definitely have a pre-meeting before the 19th meeting.
 
I am also curious from all the readers/residents about which specific areas
are problem areas. This could include an intersection or length of a couple
of blocks. Please post on here about where you would like to see some
action. We will try to organize trash pickup/meet and greet walks at these
locations. We should also try to visit a local place after the walk, maybe
get some ice cream or an adult beverage ;)
 
My location would be earl st from phalen south. Let me know!
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling
 
 
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement

Rest of post

Leader <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> I AM BACK FAMILY!!!
>
> On the post regarding the September 19th meeting hosted by D5 Planning
> Council, there is some energy behind meeting before that date to discuss
> actions and perhaps what I have outlined.
>
> Please go to that topic, read some of the posts, and place some dates that
> you may be able to meet after Labor Day. Arlington Hills is being looked at
> as the possible site for the meeting.
>
> I am glad to be back, and I am ready to.....wait for it.....
>
> ENGAGE!!!
>
> RevDev
>
> (Keith, has there been any response??)
> Pastor Devin Miller
> Saint Paul, Saint Paul
> About/contact Pastor Devin Miller, Forum Engagement Leader:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/3E8UTroRcttC9CPeSL4dQg
>
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> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/5Lo6RdnaPT8XiHaKtmsf0r
>
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Great question Ben!
 
So, we have Tuesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday to look at folks! (We need
Ben there so Wednesday is out.)
 
More suggestions wanted!
 
RevDev

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Farnsworth Aerospace school is willing to host people too. If a date and time
is picked I would be happy to see if it is available.
 
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

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I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest in
addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders.
 
Otherwise, we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
 
Ed Davis

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Ed, I don't think we need a new group, we just need to make this group
effective and action oriented.
 
I think we are well on our way!!
 
Let's keep it moving!
 
RevDev

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Touche, Ed.
 
"Blue Wave" of enforcement -
 
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23975686​/police​-blue​-wave​-combat​-gangs​-st
 
If the patrols are looking for those not using crosswalks, just drive up and
down Payne Avenue anytime. Monday afternoon between Minnehaha and Magnolia, I
had no less than 4 young men with their pants down around their knees look
directly at me, and step off the curb into the street directly in front of my
moving vehicle, forcing me to stop or slow down. I can't remember a time in
the past few years this has NOT happened on any single time I've driven down
Payne (a near daily event, given where I live). And we're not talking
crosswalks here, we're talking the dead middle of the block. It's a passive
aggressive control maneuver I am sick of, and a test to see if you will stop
for them - or mow them down. Many neighborhood acquaintences have had the same
experience, so while I suppose they would not do it in front of a squad car,
patrols should be watching what happens to civilian drivers a few cars ahead of
them.
 
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Davis To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Wed,
28 Aug 2013 21:32:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest in
addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders. Otherwise,
we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
 
Ed Davis Ed Davis Lake Phalen - District 5, STP About/contact Edward Davis:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
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So true Suzan. I call them home-boy-specials, HBS for short. I am at a loss
for why they walk parallel down the street the way they do. It has been
frustrating the entire 4 years I have lived here. Do they not value their
safety? You may be right that is a way to manipulate and control something.
And, please, this is NOT a poverty thing. There are plenty of poor people
of every nationality in the East Side who choose to use the sidewalks, like
we should. Again, this is probably a result of an abundance of negative
role models and an absence of good ones. Sorry, had to vent.
 
 
 
Thanks for your time,
Ben Greiling

Rest of post

 
 
On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 6:54 PM, <<email obscured>> wrote:
 
> Touche, Ed.
>
> "Blue Wave" of enforcement -
>
>
> http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23975686​/police​-blue​-wave​-combat​-gangs​-st
>
> If the patrols are looking for those not using crosswalks, just drive up
> and down Payne Avenue anytime. Monday afternoon between Minnehaha and
> Magnolia, I had no less than 4 young men with their pants down around their
> knees look directly at me, and step off the curb into the street directly
> in front of my moving vehicle, forcing me to stop or slow down. I can't
> remember a time in the past few years this has NOT happened on any single
> time I've driven down Payne (a near daily event, given where I live). And
> we're not talking crosswalks here, we're talking the dead middle of the
> block. It's a passive aggressive control maneuver I am sick of, and a test
> to see if you will stop for them - or mow them down. Many neighborhood
> acquaintences have had the same experience, so while I suppose they would
> not do it in front of a squad car, patrols should be watching what happens
> to civilian drivers a few cars ahead of them.
>
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Davis To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent:
> Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:32:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent
> Assault
>
> I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest
> in addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders.
> Otherwise, we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
>
> Ed Davis Ed Davis Lake Phalen - District 5, STP About/contact Edward
> Davis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
> View full topic or share:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1USZs64E70Yv2Va9icf1kg
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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
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This is so very true. It happens to me a lot, especially on Maryland Avenue it
seems. It feels like "entitlement" on their part. We can cross the street
anywhere we want and whenever we want.
 
Roxanne Larsen

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of
<email obscured>
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:54 PM
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Touche, Ed.
 
"Blue Wave" of enforcement -
 
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23975686​/police​-blue​-wave​-combat​-gangs​-st
 
If the patrols are looking for those not using crosswalks, just drive up and
down Payne Avenue anytime. Monday afternoon between Minnehaha and Magnolia, I
had no less than 4 young men with their pants down around their knees look
directly at me, and step off the curb into the street directly in front of my
moving vehicle, forcing me to stop or slow down. I can't remember a time in
the past few years this has NOT happened on any single time I've driven down
Payne (a near daily event, given where I live). And we're not talking
crosswalks here, we're talking the dead middle of the block. It's a passive
aggressive control maneuver I am sick of, and a test to see if you will stop
for them - or mow them down. Many neighborhood acquaintences have had the same
experience, so while I suppose they would not do it in front of a squad car,
patrols should be watching what happens to civilian drivers a few cars ahead of
them.
 
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Davis To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Wed,
28 Aug 2013 21:32:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest in
addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders. Otherwise,
we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
 
Ed Davis Ed Davis Lake Phalen - District 5, STP About/contact Edward Davis:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1USZs64E70Yv2Va9icf1kg
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Suzan Forsberg
Eastside, St Paul
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To add to the frustration of the East Side, heard on the police scanner at
11:30 pm that a group of 12-15 black youths beat up 2 people. that's all I
know. Sick.
 
 
 
~Kathy Kieffer~
MPL Specialties
549 Minnehaha Ave. E
St. Paul, MN 55130
651-771-4541

Rest of post

----- Original Message -----
From: <email obscured>
To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:54:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
Touche, Ed.
 
"Blue Wave" of enforcement -
 
http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23975686​/police​-blue​-wave​-combat​-gangs​-st
 
If the patrols are looking for those not using crosswalks, just drive up and
down Payne Avenue anytime. Monday afternoon between Minnehaha and Magnolia, I
had no less than 4 young men with their pants down around their knees look
directly at me, and step off the curb into the street directly in front of my
moving vehicle, forcing me to stop or slow down. I can't remember a time in the
past few years this has NOT happened on any single time I've driven down Payne
(a near daily event, given where I live). And we're not talking crosswalks
here, we're talking the dead middle of the block. It's a passive aggressive
control maneuver I am sick of, and a test to see if you will stop for them - or
mow them down. Many neighborhood acquaintences have had the same experience, so
while I suppose they would not do it in front of a squad car, patrols should be
watching what happens to civilian drivers a few cars ahead of them.
 
 
Suzan Forsberg
*Well behaved women rarely make history!
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Davis To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Wed, 28
Aug 2013 21:32:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
 
I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest in
addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders. Otherwise,
we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
 
Ed Davis Ed Davis Lake Phalen - District 5, STP About/contact Edward Davis:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1USZs64E70Yv2Va9icf1kg
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Suzan Forsberg
Eastside, St Paul
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View full topic or share:
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Kathy/ALL
 
Youth out alone after 10pm should be NOT be allowed. A curfew is obviously
necessary with all the recent problems.
 
Fines need to go to the parents of these youth out after 10 pm curfew.
 
This will start to fix this issue.
 
Tim Holden
Everyone's Mayoral Candidate
 
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 30, 2013, at 8:27 AM, MPL Specialties <<email obscured>>
wrote:
 
> To add to the frustration of the East Side, heard on the police scanner at
11:30 pm that a group of 12-15 black youths beat up 2 people. that's all I
know. Sick.
>
>
>
> ~Kathy Kieffer~
> MPL Specialties
> 549 Minnehaha Ave. E
> St. Paul, MN 55130
> 651-771-4541
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <email obscured>
> To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:54:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> Touche, Ed.
>
> "Blue Wave" of enforcement -
>
> http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23975686​/police​-blue​-wave​-combat​-gangs​-st
>
> If the patrols are looking for those not using crosswalks, just drive up and
down Payne Avenue anytime. Monday afternoon between Minnehaha and Magnolia, I
had no less than 4 young men with their pants down around their knees look
directly at me, and step off the curb into the street directly in front of my
moving vehicle, forcing me to stop or slow down. I can't remember a time in the
past few years this has NOT happened on any single time I've driven down Payne
(a near daily event, given where I live). And we're not talking crosswalks
here, we're talking the dead middle of the block. It's a passive aggressive
control maneuver I am sick of, and a test to see if you will stop for them - or
mow them down. Many neighborhood acquaintences have had the same experience, so
while I suppose they would not do it in front of a squad car, patrols should be
watching what happens to civilian drivers a few cars ahead of them.
>
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Davis To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent: Wed,
28 Aug 2013 21:32:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent Assault
>
> I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest in
addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders. Otherwise,
we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
>
> Ed Davis Ed Davis Lake Phalen - District 5, STP About/contact Edward Davis:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
> View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1USZs64E70Yv2Va9icf1kg
> * E-Democracy Forums will be unavailable on Thursday, August 29th from 2am to
6am CENTRAL US for a planned outage - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Rest of post

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> Suzan Forsberg
> Eastside, St Paul
> About/contact Suzan Forsberg:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/1TRulLQKxyEbOpdMwjRRoZ
>
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>
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Susan/ALL
 
The way the police could stop this immediately is to start using unmarked
vehicles.
 
Set a precedent that this is NOT tolerated by detaining/arresting/issuing
citations a few times and watch this NEGATIVE crap stop.
 
Thank you for sharing!
 
Tim Holden
Everyone's Mayoral Candidate

Rest of post

Sent from my iPhone
 
On Aug 29, 2013, at 6:54 PM, <email obscured> wrote:
 
> Touche, Ed.
>
> "Blue Wave" of enforcement -
>
> http://www.twincities.com​/crime​/ci​_23975686​/police​-blue​-wave​-combat​-gangs​-st
>
> If the patrols are looking for those not using crosswalks, just drive up and
down Payne Avenue anytime. Monday afternoon between Minnehaha and Magnolia, I
had no less than 4 young men with their pants down around their knees look
directly at me, and step off the curb into the street directly in front of my
moving vehicle, forcing me to stop or slow down. I can't remember a time in
the past few years this has NOT happened on any single time I've driven down
Payne (a near daily event, given where I live). And we're not talking
crosswalks here, we're talking the dead middle of the block. It's a passive
aggressive control maneuver I am sick of, and a test to see if you will stop
for them - or mow them down. Many neighborhood acquaintences have had the same
experience, so while I suppose they would not do it in front of a squad car,
patrols should be watching what happens to civilian drivers a few cars ahead of
them.
>
>
> Suzan Forsberg
> *Well behaved women rarely make history!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Davis To: stpaul-paynephalen@forums.e-democracy.org Sent:
Wed, 28 Aug 2013 21:32:06 -0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [Payne Phalen] Recent
Assault
>
> I hope that either D5 Planning Council or ESNDC can harness this interest in
addressing our crime problem OUR way and not the way of outsiders.
Otherwise, we may need to create a new neighborhood group.
>
> Ed Davis Ed Davis Lake Phalen - District 5, STP About/contact Edward
Davis: http://forums.e-democracy.org​/p​/eddavis
> View full topic or share:
http://forums.e-democracy.org​/r​/topic​/1USZs64E70Yv2Va9icf1kg
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