All posts in the topic Saint Paul (and may-be that city across the river) during the RNC (Short link)
Summary
- There are 19 posts — by 12 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Diane Gerth at Aug 08 21:43 UTC
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| Andrew Hine | True Blue Minnesota - Save The Date.doc | Aug 07 16:30 UTC |
A friend was telling me what it was like in New York when they hosted a
national convention. He had an emergency trip to New York during the
convention. His Grandmother was seriously ill and he desperately wanted to
see her one last time. He spoke of the impossibility of walking through the
crowds of people and the droves of police standing shoulder to shoulder. He
said the city was in gridlock. Now, this was New York, not St. Paul.
Another friend has been told by her employer not to schedule anything
during the convention and to plan on not going to work. Mind you--she works
in Mpls. Is Saint Paul really ready? Are the people of Saint Paul ready?
Are we, the people, all ready for Democracy at it's best?
- m@ry
Mary C. Zanmiller
Middle Ground Neighborhood of the West Seventh Community
Details of the $50 million security budget have now been released and were
scheduled to be submitted to the St Paul City Council this afternoon. (I have
not been able to determine how that meeting went.)
To wit:
$1.9 million for chemical irritants. To put this in perspective, if 50,000
protesters show up, that would be $38 for each one of us. Probably enough for
several applications.
$1 million for chemical masks. (For the police, of course. This doesn't
include what protesters might pay for their own masks.)
$875,000 on equipment and supplies for SWAT teams and bomb squads.
$875,000 for additional jail expenses.
$288,000 for "civil disturbance uniforms."
The entire budget was to have been submitted to the city council this afternoon
at 3:30.
In contrast, I remember with a certain nostalgia how Assistant Chief Matt
Bostrom spoke at a public information gathering at St Paul last fall. I
remember when he said that protecting our civil liberties was the number one
thing that motivated him to get out of bed in the morning. I remember when he
said that St Paul police and other departments under St Paul command would
absolutely NOT be wearing SWAT or other military-style uniforms and would not
be permitted to cover up their badge numbers or other identification. He
promised that officers during the convention would be there primarily to
protect the free-expression rights of protesters, patrolling in their usual
uniforms, enforcing the same laws they always enforce and that the officers
would NEVER under any circumstances be engaging in the sort of mass fencing and
arrests and multiple-day mass holding areas that characterized the RNC in New
York in 2004.
So I am wondering why so much tear gas, pepper spray and other chemical agents.
I am wondering why the "civil disturbance uniforms" expense for the uniforms he
swore they wouldn't be using. I am wondering if St Paul has also passed an
ordinance or issues an order like that passed by the Minneapolis City Council
last week, permitting rubber bullets, permitting taped-over badges and
permitting confiscation and destruction of camera and video equipment.
Folks, why are we doing this? We already know who the Republicans will
nominate. We will certainly know before September 1 what their platform will
be. Either Assistant Chief Bostrom was playing us with his previous promises,
or the press release is totally fictional or someone got to him in the
meantime.
Which leads me to my final recollection of that St Thomas meeting. Someone
asked Matt Bostrom if he was certain that he actually had the power to control
the policing circumstances or if the Secret Service might come in at the last
minute and change everything. He said he was certain. The follow-up question
was if he was wrong and the Secret Service overrules him, would he resign. He
thought for a long moment, then replied that he would indeed resign.
Really, why are we doing this? What democratic purpose is possibly served in
potentially quashing so many civil liberties for a bunch of balloons and
motorcades? Are the hotel rooms and bar tabs really worth it?
Just incredible Charlie. just incredible! I would consider Matt Bostrom, Chief Harrington and the St. Paul Police department negligent if them didn't plan for a worst case scenario. I certainly can't fault anyone who prepares to do their job. I don't know what civil disturbance uniforms are. I assume they will provide additional protection to officers who don't have SWAT gear. So Charlie what should our police wear when they are confronted with a group of protesters that are intent on causing damage and destruction? Mike Fratto Payne Phalen Please help those who don't get enough to eat. http://oyh.org http://hungersolutions.org The future depends more on what we do between now and then Than what we did in the past.
Like Mike says, it would be irresponsible not to prepare for the worst case
scenario.
As they do now, St. Paul police are trained to use chemical irritants. I
think the last time they were used heavily was the Rolling Stone riots of
the late seventies when crowds overturned and set cars on fire. With any
number of scenarios possible, St. Paul still does not anticipate using all
of this pepper spray and tear gas. Maybe we could sell the leftovers on
e-bay :-)
The uniforms are simply long sleeved blue shirts - not very para-military,
sorry.
We don't cover badges.
There are still no "pens" being planned.
We don't steal people's cameras.
Everyone is encouraged to express his or her free speech.
You can march, rally, broadcast an anti-war message on a jumbotron, chant,
fly banners...
If your idea of free speech is to lie down in mock death. You will be able
to.
If you insist on long term blockading of streets used by residents or
businesses you will be humanely arrested.
If you throw rocks or anything else harmful you will be arrested
I'm not sure what any of the above does to limit free speech?
dave thune
ward 2 - RNC/Demonstration centre
What type of blessing was it that said may you live in interesting times?
Irish? Chinese? Biblical? I can't remember.
I think early September will be very interesting. I think the RNC
conventions is an exercise of rights, balloons and all, and yes I think we
will be put out and discomforted a bit, and I think the strategic planning
by law enforcement is being done at highly professional levels (my one
experience / conversation with Matt Bostrom was very pleasant) and I think
we have good politicians interested in our rights. I like the idea of being
able to try long term blockading of streets (civil disobedience) and the
resulting humanely enforced repercussions. I'm looking forward to marches,
rallies, jumbotrons, chanting, etc, 'permitted' or otherwise.
It's going to be interesting. Different.
If this is too Polyannish, or (and my son (younger one, not the oldest)
threatened to puke all over me if I mentioned it to him or anyone else)
Minnesota nice, we can always just hope for the best. It's gonna happen. I
think we are capable of it.
P.S. Did Minneapolis really approve of taping over badge numbers?
So, Dave Thune, you are on the city council and you seem to be in a position to
give all those reasonable assurances that our civil liberties actually WON'T be
sold for the cheap price of hotel room rentals and Xcel Center rental and
whatnot. I would really love to believe you, since most of what you say has
usually been the case in the past (at least for white people like you and me).
In fact, relations between the peace movement and the St Paul police have
usually been quite respectful and professional. Much of my alarm about the RNC
has been that this relationship between the police and the policed would be
shattered by the presence of this convention. I have ALWAYS hoped that my dire
predictions would be wrong.
So let me issue this personal invitation to you: Join us for the big march on
September 1. It is a permitted march, quite legal. All the parties, even the
"anti-authoritarians," have promised to keep any hint of violence away from it,
to make it a safe march for mothers with their strollers and grandfathers with
their canes. So join us. I happen to know that you are against the war and
the continued occupation of Iraq. I happen to know that you share nearly all
values of those who are marching and share nearly no values with the war
profiteers and torture advocates who have rented the Xcel. So join us.
There is nothing as councilman from the host city which should prevent you from
having your own opinions, even as you function as genial host. So join us.
There is no possibility for danger from the polite and professional police
department that exists only to maintain order and protect our civil liberties.
So join us.
Join us and try to get as many city council members as you can to join us as
well. You know the route; the police have granted the permit in accordance
with ordinances that the city council has passed. We meet at 11 a.m. on Labor
Day, September 1, on the Capitol steps. Join us for our peaceful march. Join
us with your fellow council members. Join us for this legal, permitted, safe
march and rest assured (just as you reassure others) that we have absolutely
nothing to fear from the chemical irritants and so forth. I would be happy to
be marching right at your side. But really: join us.
As noted above, the Republicans held their last convention in New York City
from August 28 through September 4, 2004. Below is the first paragraph of an
opinion article published in The New York Times. Note the date of the opinion
is 20 days short of the 3rd anniversary of the convention. I do not know about
profits from hotel room bookings, but it looks like some of our lawyers may be
sailing off on a gravy boat. Let the law suits commence/continue!
Secrets of the Police
Published: August 8, 2007 - The New York Times
The city of New York is waging a losing and ill-conceived battle for
overzealous secrecy surrounding nearly 2,000 arrests during the 2004 Republican
National Convention. Yesterday, for the second time in three months, a federal
judge ordered the release of hundreds of pages of documents that detail the
Police Department's covert surveillance leading to the convention. People who
were detained, some for days and without explanation, may finally begin to get
some answers.
All marchers: please dress telegenically. And no wardrobe malfunctions. Or
dorky socks. Check your teeth for blueberry skins, etc. Point your legible
signs at the cameras. We intend for you to end up in the MHS archives and on
the BBC World News.
We've got some super stuff in the can, and more on the way. The "protest
community" is all around us and between us, and it is coming together when
America needs it the most. Despite what you read (or write) at the end of
on-line newspaper articles, protesters are engineers, lawyers, architects,
artists, electricians, flooring specialists, doctors, nurses, chemists,
waitrons, bike messengers, sewer workers, plumbers, ironworkers, firemen,
massage therapists, technical writers, shopkeepers, restaurateurs, ... you name
it. We'll show the world that it is ALL SORTS of people who are fed up with
lies, greed, and unaccountability. It doesn't even matter what party a person
is from - this is now so beyond the RNC for me. It's basically about morality.
I have conservative friends who are fine people - I would never lump them in
with liars, cheaters, or traitors. (And interestingly, one of my most moral,
upstanding friends is an atheist - go figure.)
Another new friend (you will be proud to know how many great Minnesotans are
out there - I never knew... Some days I just want to run away from all the
horrible things I am digging up, but then I meet a working class hero and we
carry on together...) just got back from Viet Nam. She photodocumented victims
of Agent Orange. The images of deformed people will turn your stomach and
twist your heart. There are still barrels of the toxic stuff sitting over
there, and the USA won't remove them. Hello?! Is that what responsible
countries do? Is that setting a good example? Sorry, I digress...
Looking at the dollars spent on protecting and serving us is alarming
(Charley's post). I believe there was also a line item in the newspaper for
rubber gloves. That figure, if I recall correctly, is about the amount True
Blue Minnesota needs to fulfill our financial obligations. Yes, WE CAN CHANGE
THE WORLD for the same amount of money spent on GLOVES!
BTW, IMHO, most of the anti-police sentiment should really be directed toward
Agent Kirkwood, who has conveniently pulled a Rumsfeld and disappeared. I
still believe Matt Bostrom is a man of his word and has a good heart, and that
any radical moves will be the doing of Kirkwood. He should be held as
accountable as anyone, Secret Service or not. Granted, the easiest way to
provoke them is to provoke them, so let's not. There is a terrorist threat, I
suppose, (if they can find Minnesota) so I do appreciate the fact that there
must be preparations for that unlikely event. But if it's just us Americans
doing our patriotic thing, I hope the SWAT teams end up feeling like a woman
who wore a nightgown to a hoedown.
Won't you please help us help everyone? If you have some money to spare, you
are welcome to come to a very special True Blue Minnesota Sneak Preview a
fortnight from today. See attachment. Be forewarned: I won't hesitate to ask
you for $100, or even $1,000 or more. But even $10 will get your name recorded
in history. The Team of 17,999 is one short because I have spent my season
ticket money on this venture (>$3,000; please don't tell my wife). This is not
about making money by hiring Journey, REO Speedwagon, or other crap bands, or
by selling Anheuser-Busch products. It's about being an American and putting
our money where our mouths are. And the bulk of our creative programming is
homegrown.
Now is the time for all good SPIFfers to come to the visual aid of their
country. If e-Democracy wants to put a promo on the screens, we've got a
special deal for you - considerably lower than Super Bowl or Olympic rates.
Andrew Hine
True Blue Minnesota
<email obscured>
The following file was added to this topic:
The new, white, disturbingly obvious cameras are now in place throughout
downtown.
Now that my every move downtown both in the skyways and on the street is being
observed, recorded, shared with BOMA and goodness knows who else, what are the
plans for all those fancy cameras after the convention? Will they continue to
spy on us? Will they be secretly shut down with the apparatus still intact to
make us think we're being watched? What happens to the recordings? Who has
access? Will the images of my comings and goings ever be destroyed? Exactly
where will they be stored in the Ministry of Love?
Diane Gerth
Downtown & West End
On 8/7/08, Diane Gerth <<email obscured>> wrote:
> Will they continue to spy on us?
Is it spying if they are recording public space?
John Harris
webber-camden, mpls
Mr. Hine,
If yours is such an all inclusive, prevailing attitude why are you wasting so
much effort on getting 10 seconds of one night's news spot.? Why on earth don't
you apply all that energy to getting the Democrat lead congress to rescind
their proclamation (authorization) of war or cutting off the monies for that
war? You can have the most elaborate, sensational, peaceful or horrific protest
the world has ever seen when the RNC is in town and you won't have changed a
thing! Nothing! Not one speaker at the convention will change his speech. No
one will be elected or not elected as result of your protest. No ones opinion
about the war will be changed. Not one soldier more or less will die because of
your march. Not one congress person will change their opinions because of you.
Your demonstrating is an absolute waste of time to further advance your stated
causes. That is why most of us understand your stated reason is nothing near
your true reasons for demonstrating.
Dean Sheldon,
St Anthony Park
Mr. Harris: Yes.
For people living in the Lowry, the cameras record every time they enter and
leave their homes. For me, they record every time a client enters my building.
They watch my secretary as she smokes her dastardly cigarettes standing outside
on the street. Want to walk your dog or eat a lunch in Rice Park? They record
who enters and leaves the St. Paul Hotel, Macy's, and a host of other
businesses, offices, and homes.
While I may have no reasonable expectation of complete privacy as I walk down
the street, I have an expectation that I won't be constantly under
surveillance. And if my tax dollars are going to be paying for the ongoing
spying, I'd like to know what the disposition of the information will be.
Personally, I'd like to see the things sold on e-bay after the convention.
Maybe Minneapolis will want them.
Diane Gerth
Downtown & West End
Not even one of Mr. Sheldons's claims can be verified or even begin to be
measured, but certainly extreme.
John Mannillo
No. People who do things in public view or in public places have no expectation of privacy, courts have ruled. Jim Walsh Summit-U >>> "John Harris" <<email obscured>> 08/07/2008 1:22 PM >>> On 8/7/08, Diane Gerth <<email obscured>> wrote: > Will they continue to spy on us? Is it spying if they are recording public space? John Harris webber-camden, mpls John Harris Webber-Camden, Minneapolis Info about John Harris: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/johnharris This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/23s7DYyS7rnHAbUDzqPkVr
Of course, Mr Sheldon the same could be said for every person who shows up for every march or protest of the the RNC or DNC and for any other issue people choose to march. That sir is not the point. The point is our Constitution allows us to do it. Even if this President and his administration have prevented anyone from exercising their free speech during his appearances. As for getting Congress to do something, I assume you know what is happening in Washington. But, Alas! That is not the focus of this forum. Mike Fratto Payne Phalen Please help those who don't get enough to eat. http://oyh.org http://hungersolutions.org The future depends more on what we do between now and then Than what we did in the past.
One might think that as a long term Downtown resident, I might be particularly
upset about all my movements being recorded, since unless I am ready to pickup
stakes and move, I cannot get away from it. However, I am not in the least bit
disturbed.
It was never too difficult to spot the bus stop drug dealers, assuming that you
have some time to kill. For example: If you stood in the skyway between the US
Bank Building and the 1st Bank Building and looked West to the bus stop on 5th
and Minnesota, there are 9 bus lines that run to that stop. After all the buses
have passed, the guys that did not get on one, might not be waiting for a bus -
Ya Think!
Now, I never have time for this kind of an experiment, but my work hours vary
quite a bit (self-employed), so I go through that exact skyway over a wide
range of times. I'd stop almost every day, take a look for a minute and began
to identify the regular cast of characters. Of course, just hanging at a bus
stop is not a crime. You would never guess though, all of a sudden and then for
several days running, the boys are gone. I looked around, no squad cars, what
is going on? Then I saw the cameras.
These cameras are not going to stop the drug dealers. The dealers are just
going to go where there aren't any cameras.
I just love those cameras.
Bob McLean
A couple of things: First, Dave Thune, I want to thank you for your wish to march with us on September 1st. Do you know of any other city council members who will be marching on Labor Day? Could the mayor be persuaded? Having a number of public figures march and having it well-known seems the single best way to avoid any difficulties. Better than anything in that budget. And speaking of that budget, the Minnesota Independent has some interesting speculation about items that were NOT made public from the presentation to the St Paul city council the other day. The article can be found at http://minnesotaindependent.com/view/st-pauls-rnc
Jim Walsh said, "No. People who do things in public view or in public places
have no expectation of privacy, courts have ruled."
Courts have also ruled that it's permissible to snatch US citizens off the
concourse of O'Hare and hold them in military brigs for years on end, harshly
interrogating them occasionally. Doesn't mean we want to adopt such techniques
as part of a "Welcome to Friendly St. Paul!" campaign.
I'm not suggesting that it's illegal, I'm suggesting that it's creepy, unwise,
unwelcoming, and a poor use of resources to watch our neighbors so closely into
the indefinite future. It's not how I want to live life in my city.
Diane Gerth
Under surveillance Downtown, not so much in the West End