_Instant Runoff Voting Retreats in North Carolina_
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/05/instant-runoff-voting-retreats-in-north.html)
Yesterday was the deadline for any North Carolina jurisdictions to
volunteer for the Instant Runoff Voting Pilot. Cary, North Carolina will not a
volunteer for IRV this year. After experiencing instant runoff voting (IRV),
plurality elections and traditional runoffs, the Cary Town Council decided to
stick with the non-partisan traditional runoff election method. There were
two volunteers for IRV in 2007, this time there will only be one.
Hendersonville will be the only volunteer for IRV. This is a blow to lobbying
groups -who had set their hopes on persuading Cary volunteering for the
instant
runoff pilot.
According to the NC State Board of Elections, May 6, 2009 was the last day
a city could volunteer for the instant runoff voting for this years'
elections:
"At this time, Hendersonville is the only municipality that has decided to
participate in the IRV pilot project this year.
There had been inquiries from Cary in addition to Hendersonville.
Because the statutory start of filing (first Friday in July at noon) falls
on a legal holiday, filing (this year) starts Monday morning July 6 when
county offices open. That would make May 6th the deadline for a municipality
to make a decision to use IRV." - email from Don Wright, General Counsel
for the NC State Board of Elections, dated 5/04/2009.
On April 30, 2009, _council members voted to stick with traditional
runoffs_
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/05/cary-town-council-members-were-not.html)
. Cary North Carolina participated in the first Instant Runoff
Voting pilot in 2007. While instant runoff voting was NOT on the Cary Town
Council agenda, last week, it was mentioned during the hearing. The meeting can
be viewed and listened to _here_
(http://www.townofcary.org/med/video/council043009.ram) at the Cary Town
Government website. The discussion and vote
regarding adopting the plurality election method began around 1:20. Here
are some excerpts from comments made by Council Members Don Frantz and Jack
Smith:
1:26 Don Frantz
"One of the reasons I called for change to plurality is because weād have
a public hearing and hear what citizens had to say about it. ā¦ Most people
said they preferred that we stick with what weāve got. ā¦ Stick with our
traditional non partisanā¦ I highly agree that if we pursue change in our
election, that we do it in a non election year. Number one, just to avoid any
perception issues...
When our town agreed to IRV in 2007, it was kind of rush job..There was a
lot of pushback, the public wasnāt involved ...
Weāre on a deadline now, I think this is something weāve got to study
When we look at doing something differently, there has to be a reasonā¦
whats Cary going to getā¦how is this going to make things better, Regarding
plurality, IRVā¦ I canāt see how it makes our elections better other than
saving money
I hope all of us donāt mind paying more to get a little better product..
I like the fact that that traditional elections, no matter how many
candidates you have in the race, the top two have a month to go at it. You
might
have your favorite, it doesnāt make the instant runoffā¦ you didnāt know
who to rankā¦ but once you know who the top two candidates areā¦ I donāt think
itās that brokeā¦ I donātā think we really need to focus on fixing itā¦"
1:35 Jack Smith:
"...I thought that the feedback was pretty balanced .. I didnāt see it
overwhelming one way or the otherā¦ when you considered Cary citizens.. The
important point is that.. we have two years to do some real in-depth studyingā¦
get some legitimate polling thatās not biased by out of city groupsā¦get
some feedback on our surveys, and do this in a calm reasonable manner, Yes
there may be cost issues but is a practice that weāve been doing this for
many years, it does determine a clear winner, a 50%+1 winnerā¦.and I think itā
s the right thing to do at this timeā¦"
Don Frantz, council member who blogs about council meetings after each
meeting, mentioned the April 30 decision in his blog
Sunday, May 3, 2009
_Week in Review 4/26/09 - 5/1/09_
(http://donfrantz.blogspot.com/2009/05/week-in-review-42609-5109.html)
"...This was council meeting week. There wasnāt much on the _agenda_
(http://www.townofcary.org/agenda/agenda.htm) as there arenāt many development
projects taking place these days. Council did however make a decision on
whether or not to change the method of elections in Cary. After exploring the
possibilities of instant runoff voting (IRV) and plurality elections council
decided to stick with the non-partisan traditional runoff election
method. I am pleased. If you have been reading my blog youknow my thoughts
regarding IRV ā I donāt like it (and thatās putting it nicely). I was
genuinely
interested in hearing citizens thoughts regarding the switch back to
plurality elections (Cary utilized this method until 2000 when we switched to
runoff elections). Unfortunately I didnāt get a lot of feedback regarding
plurality (until I stated such at a council meeting ā then I received a few
emails). Most folks I heard from were special interest groups and politicos
both in support and in opposition to IRV. Donāt get me wrong ā I appreciate
any and all feedback, I just wish more āaverage citizensā had taken the
time to weigh in on the topic. I would like to thank Chris, Joyce, Perry, and
Andrew for all their help."
Hendersonville City Council think that IRV was a success when they tried it
in 2007, because it didn't blow up in their faces, there was no runoff
election, they didn't have to count the IRV votes, and they also ignored the
comments of some of the voters:
Oct 19, 2007 _Voter finds new system frustrating _
(http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20071019/NEWS/710190361) By Harrison
Metzger Times-News.
Hendersonville: Bill Modlin wasn't happy with his first experience with the
new"instant runoff" voting when he cast his ballot for Hendersonville City
Council on Thursday. ..."It doesn't make any sense to me, and I can guarantee
you because of the way they have it set up there are people in this town
that are going to lose their vote," he said. ..."I call it instant confusion,"
he said. _(Cached)_
(http://www.ncvoter.net/downloads/IRV_Oct_19_Voter_finds_new_system_frustrating.pdf)
The Hendersonville Council's measure of success was whether they avoided
runoff, not that voters got to pick 3 more choices. Further, Hendersonville
is not using a real instant runoff system, but a made up method. IRV is a
single seat election method, but Hendersonville is using it for a multi seat
contest. Voters are asked to "pick two" then rank three, in order to elect
2 choices for the seat. With candidates only needing to obtain 25% of the
votes, it is unlikely the additional votes will be needed. Worse, this made
up election method will thwart bullet style or single shot voting, making
it harder for some groups to elect their candidates.
The idea to consider switching to plurality came after the Durham County
Board of Elections _approached their City Council _
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/03/not-instant-runoff-voting-plurality-is.html)
with the
recommendation to switch to plurality. They advised the council that: "The
Non-Partisan plurality method is the only method that ensures only one
election/voting process." This is true - if saving money is the primary
objective, only
plurality elections can guarantee a savings and one election only, while
IRV might save some money, but would provide a plurality result and possibly
some messy recounts or questionable results. On April 7, 2009, Durham
community leaders urged the city to keep traditional runoffs and oppose IRV..
_the council voted unanimously to keep the traditional runoff system. _
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/04/durham-community-leaders-oppose-instant.ht
ml)
So there you have it, Cary, a city that has tried plurality, instant runoff
and traditional elections has chosen traditional elections with the 50%+1
majority requirement. This is Cary, the city with the most Ph.D.s per
capita in the U.S. for towns larger than 75,000 people. This time, the council
had time to weigh their options and consider the facts. Cary has seen the
front end and back end of IRV, and based on the results - did not choose IRV
again.
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(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/05/instant-runoff-voting-retreats-in-north.html)
Yesterday was the deadline for any North Carolina jurisdictions to
volunteer for the Instant Runoff Voting Pilot. Cary, North Carolina will not a
volunteer for IRV this year. After experiencing instant runoff voting (IRV),
plurality elections and traditional runoffs, the Cary Town Council decided to
stick with the non-partisan traditional runoff election method. There were
two volunteers for IRV in 2007, this time there will only be one.
Hendersonville will be the only volunteer for IRV. This is a blow to lobbying
groups -who had set their hopes on persuading Cary volunteering for the
instant
runoff pilot.
According to the NC State Board of Elections, May 6, 2009 was the last day
a city could volunteer for the instant runoff voting for this years'
elections:
"At this time, Hendersonville is the only municipality that has decided to
participate in the IRV pilot project this year.
There had been inquiries from Cary in addition to Hendersonville.
Because the statutory start of filing (first Friday in July at noon) falls
on a legal holiday, filing (this year) starts Monday morning July 6 when
county offices open. That would make May 6th the deadline for a municipality
to make a decision to use IRV." - email from Don Wright, General Counsel
for the NC State Board of Elections, dated 5/04/2009.
On April 30, 2009, _council members voted to stick with traditional
runoffs_
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/05/cary-town-council-members-were-not.html)
. Cary North Carolina participated in the first Instant Runoff
Voting pilot in 2007. While instant runoff voting was NOT on the Cary Town
Council agenda, last week, it was mentioned during the hearing. The meeting can
be viewed and listened to _here_
(http://www.townofcary.org/med/video/council043009.ram) at the Cary Town
Government website. The discussion and vote
regarding adopting the plurality election method began around 1:20. Here
are some excerpts from comments made by Council Members Don Frantz and Jack
Smith:
1:26 Don Frantz
"One of the reasons I called for change to plurality is because weād have
a public hearing and hear what citizens had to say about it. ā¦ Most people
said they preferred that we stick with what weāve got. ā¦ Stick with our
traditional non partisanā¦ I highly agree that if we pursue change in our
election, that we do it in a non election year. Number one, just to avoid any
perception issues...
When our town agreed to IRV in 2007, it was kind of rush job..There was a
lot of pushback, the public wasnāt involved ...
Weāre on a deadline now, I think this is something weāve got to study
When we look at doing something differently, there has to be a reasonā¦
whats Cary going to getā¦how is this going to make things better, Regarding
plurality, IRVā¦ I canāt see how it makes our elections better other than
saving money
I hope all of us donāt mind paying more to get a little better product..
I like the fact that that traditional elections, no matter how many
candidates you have in the race, the top two have a month to go at it. You
might
have your favorite, it doesnāt make the instant runoffā¦ you didnāt know
who to rankā¦ but once you know who the top two candidates areā¦ I donāt think
itās that brokeā¦ I donātā think we really need to focus on fixing itā¦"
1:35 Jack Smith:
"...I thought that the feedback was pretty balanced .. I didnāt see it
overwhelming one way or the otherā¦ when you considered Cary citizens.. The
important point is that.. we have two years to do some real in-depth studyingā¦
get some legitimate polling thatās not biased by out of city groupsā¦get
some feedback on our surveys, and do this in a calm reasonable manner, Yes
there may be cost issues but is a practice that weāve been doing this for
many years, it does determine a clear winner, a 50%+1 winnerā¦.and I think itā
s the right thing to do at this timeā¦"
Don Frantz, council member who blogs about council meetings after each
meeting, mentioned the April 30 decision in his blog
Sunday, May 3, 2009
_Week in Review 4/26/09 - 5/1/09_
(http://donfrantz.blogspot.com/2009/05/week-in-review-42609-5109.html)
"...This was council meeting week. There wasnāt much on the _agenda_
(http://www.townofcary.org/agenda/agenda.htm) as there arenāt many development
projects taking place these days. Council did however make a decision on
whether or not to change the method of elections in Cary. After exploring the
possibilities of instant runoff voting (IRV) and plurality elections council
decided to stick with the non-partisan traditional runoff election
method. I am pleased. If you have been reading my blog youknow my thoughts
regarding IRV ā I donāt like it (and thatās putting it nicely). I was
genuinely
interested in hearing citizens thoughts regarding the switch back to
plurality elections (Cary utilized this method until 2000 when we switched to
runoff elections). Unfortunately I didnāt get a lot of feedback regarding
plurality (until I stated such at a council meeting ā then I received a few
emails). Most folks I heard from were special interest groups and politicos
both in support and in opposition to IRV. Donāt get me wrong ā I appreciate
any and all feedback, I just wish more āaverage citizensā had taken the
time to weigh in on the topic. I would like to thank Chris, Joyce, Perry, and
Andrew for all their help."
Hendersonville City Council think that IRV was a success when they tried it
in 2007, because it didn't blow up in their faces, there was no runoff
election, they didn't have to count the IRV votes, and they also ignored the
comments of some of the voters:
Oct 19, 2007 _Voter finds new system frustrating _
(http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20071019/NEWS/710190361) By Harrison
Metzger Times-News.
Hendersonville: Bill Modlin wasn't happy with his first experience with the
new"instant runoff" voting when he cast his ballot for Hendersonville City
Council on Thursday. ..."It doesn't make any sense to me, and I can guarantee
you because of the way they have it set up there are people in this town
that are going to lose their vote," he said. ..."I call it instant confusion,"
he said. _(Cached)_
(http://www.ncvoter.net/downloads/IRV_Oct_19_Voter_finds_new_system_frustrating.pdf)
The Hendersonville Council's measure of success was whether they avoided
runoff, not that voters got to pick 3 more choices. Further, Hendersonville
is not using a real instant runoff system, but a made up method. IRV is a
single seat election method, but Hendersonville is using it for a multi seat
contest. Voters are asked to "pick two" then rank three, in order to elect
2 choices for the seat. With candidates only needing to obtain 25% of the
votes, it is unlikely the additional votes will be needed. Worse, this made
up election method will thwart bullet style or single shot voting, making
it harder for some groups to elect their candidates.
The idea to consider switching to plurality came after the Durham County
Board of Elections _approached their City Council _
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/03/not-instant-runoff-voting-plurality-is.html)
with the
recommendation to switch to plurality. They advised the council that: "The
Non-Partisan plurality method is the only method that ensures only one
election/voting process." This is true - if saving money is the primary
objective, only
plurality elections can guarantee a savings and one election only, while
IRV might save some money, but would provide a plurality result and possibly
some messy recounts or questionable results. On April 7, 2009, Durham
community leaders urged the city to keep traditional runoffs and oppose IRV..
_the council voted unanimously to keep the traditional runoff system. _
(http://irvbad4nc.blogspot.com/2009/04/durham-community-leaders-oppose-instant.ht
ml)
So there you have it, Cary, a city that has tried plurality, instant runoff
and traditional elections has chosen traditional elections with the 50%+1
majority requirement. This is Cary, the city with the most Ph.D.s per
capita in the U.S. for towns larger than 75,000 people. This time, the council
had time to weigh their options and consider the facts. Cary has seen the
front end and back end of IRV, and based on the results - did not choose IRV
again.
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