What do YOU think about the RNC?

My own views are pretty well known on the subject. Several others have
addressed at least some aspects of the Republican National Convention,
beginning on September 1. But the vast majority of forum readers have not said
much at all about the big event. I would invite your comments now.

Are you pleased or displeased that the Republicans are holding their national
convention here? Do you expect the convention to be disruptive or smooth? Do
you think it will be a net gain or a net loss for St Paul financially? Do you
have any reactions to the event as an exercise in democracy or for any
potential loss of civil liberties? Do you think the convention will benefit
Republicans like Tim Pawlenty and Norm Coleman, or do you think it will harm
their political futures? What about the Democrats like Chris Coleman or Al
Franken...same question? Do you expect any change in relations between the St
Paul police and other groups? What are your reactions to all the preparations
so far? Do you expect protests to be violent or peaceful?

Or fill in your own question and then answer it. Several of us have been
spouting off and most of you have been lurking. Not it's your turn to talk.

As I said on here before, when we had the announcement that the convention
would be here - it doesn't matter to me whether it is the repubs or Dems (well,
maybe I hoped for the Dems to pick us) - but just having a nationally televised
convention, bringing in folks from all over the country/world, can't be
anything but good for us. It gives St. Paul a chance to show itself off,
businesses can make money, and it could draw people here as tourists for years
to come.

I think whatever inconveniences that are caused (traffic, businesses in the
"zone" getting deliveries, residents getting home inside the "zone") are what
you agree to put up with at times when you live/work in a modern urban city.
And I think the city, police and secret service made a good decision to tighten
the restricted area up so as not to disturb as many residents and businesses as
earlier draft plans could have.

BUT GUESS WHAT - hardly anyone knows there is going to be a national
convention here - at least people living and working in the East Metro. And
that really surprises me (but doesn't shock me, because the vast majority of
people are just not interested in being informed past their own personal
lives). Here's what I have encountered:

As a volunteer with the St. Paul Police Reserves, I will be helping out
with traffic/crowds/whatever I am needed for during the convention. I chose
the early afternoon-early evening shift. Therefore, I have been alerting some
of my clients that I will be only in the office in the morning that week. I
have also had to re-schedule or schedule morning meetings with clients or
opposing attorneys because of my restricted work hours that week. I said to
everyone I spoke to about this, something like, "Well I am a volunteer for the
St. Paul Police Department and, you know, we have quite a big event that week
in St. Paul that I will be helping with". The reaction in 3/4 of my
conversations (clients as well as attorneys) has been, "Oh........." (spoken by
those that have no idea what I am talking about, but don't want to seem
uninformed) or "What's going on?" from the rest.

It might seem strange, but very few people are involved in what is happening in
their world. All of us on here, since we are involved and concerned, just
assume, I think, that everyone else is - but they aren't. Subject for another
thread at a later time - and how that non-involvement adversely affects the
rest of us....

Gloria Bogen
West Side = Best Side
----- Original Message -----
From: Charley Underwood<mailto:<email obscured>>
To: St. Paul Issues Forum<mailto:stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 AM
Subject: [SPIF] What do YOU think about the RNC?

My own views are pretty well known on the subject. Several others have
addressed at least some aspects of the Republican National Convention,
beginning on September 1. But the vast majority of forum readers have not said
much at all about the big event. I would invite your comments now.

Are you pleased or displeased that the Republicans are holding their national
convention here? Do you expect the convention to be disruptive or smooth? Do
you think it will be a net gain or a net loss for St Paul financially? Do you
have any reactions to the event as an exercise in democracy or for any
potential loss of civil liberties? Do you think the convention will benefit
Republicans like Tim Pawlenty and Norm Coleman, or do you think it will harm
their political futures? What about the Democrats like Chris Coleman or Al
Franken...same question? Do you expect any change in relations between the St
Paul police and other groups? What are your reactions to all the preparations
so far? Do you expect protests to be violent or peaceful?

Or fill in your own question and then answer it. Several of us have been
spouting off and most of you have been lurking. Not it's your turn to talk.

Charley Underwood
Longfellow (SD 62 A), Minneapolis
Info about Charley Underwood:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/charleyunderwood<;http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/charleyunderwood>

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7JRmEGwMn0uEg7lcrC3E8J<;http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7JRmEGwMn0uEg7lcrC3E8J>

My feelings on the RNC were more or less indifferent until I found out
about several of the bands that are coming to town. Now I'm looking
forward to some of the music.

Other than that, I'm fairly frustrated at the amount of time people
spend worrying about out-of-town destruction agents that will supposedly
wreak havoc on the city. We have seen these fears at every large
gathering of the past 9 years and probably 90% of the time it is
entirely overstated and serves only to smear those who take the time to
use the rights offered to them by the Constitution.

When the RNC actually happens, I hope to be inspired by tens of
thousands of people who want to work for a better future but I'll
probably just get annoyed and disillusioned when I see placards that
read "Bush is Dum."

Living in a fairly open society isn't easy - but it can be interesting.

Christopher Mitchell

Very happy all these folks and national/international media coming. Hope
there will be some attention to the fact that a wide variety of people -
race and religion, get along pretty well in St Paul.

Rest of post

Joe

On Aug 21 2008, GLORIA E BOGEN wrote:

> As I said on here before, when we had the announcement that the
> convention would be here - it doesn't matter to me whether it is the
> repubs or Dems (well, maybe I hoped for the Dems to pick us) - but just
> having a nationally televised convention, bringing in folks from all over
> the country/world, can't be anything but good for us. It gives St. Paul a
> chance to show itself off, businesses can make money, and it could draw
> people here as tourists for years to come.
>
> I think whatever inconveniences that are caused (traffic, businesses in
> the "zone" getting deliveries, residents getting home inside the "zone")
> are what you agree to put up with at times when you live/work in a modern
> urban city. And I think the city, police and secret service made a good
> decision to tighten the restricted area up so as not to disturb as many
> residents and businesses as earlier draft plans could have.
>
> BUT GUESS WHAT - hardly anyone knows there is going to be a national
> convention here - at least people living and working in the East Metro.
> And that really surprises me (but doesn't shock me, because the vast
> majority of people are just not interested in being informed past their
> own personal lives). Here's what I have encountered:
>
> As a volunteer with the St. Paul Police Reserves, I will be helping
> out with traffic/crowds/whatever I am needed for during the convention. I
> chose the early afternoon-early evening shift. Therefore, I have been
> alerting some of my clients that I will be only in the office in the
> morning that week. I have also had to re-schedule or schedule morning
> meetings with clients or opposing attorneys because of my restricted work
> hours that week. I said to everyone I spoke to about this, something
> like, "Well I am a volunteer for the St. Paul Police Department and, you
> know, we have quite a big event that week in St. Paul that I will be
> helping with". The reaction in 3/4 of my conversations (clients as well
> as attorneys) has been, "Oh........." (spoken by those that have no idea
> what I am talking about, but don't want to seem uninformed) or "What's
> going on?" from the rest.
>
> It might seem strange, but very few people are involved in what is
> happening in their world. All of us on here, since we are involved and
> concerned, just assume, I think, that everyone else is - but they aren't.
> Subject for another thread at a later time - and how that non-involvement
> adversely affects the rest of us....
>
>Gloria Bogen
>West Side = Best Side
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charley Underwood<mailto:<email obscured>>
> To: St. Paul Issues Forum<mailto:stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 AM
> Subject: [SPIF] What do YOU think about the RNC?
>
>
> My own views are pretty well known on the subject. Several others have
> addressed at least some aspects of the Republican National Convention,
> beginning on September 1. But the vast majority of forum readers have not
> said much at all about the big event. I would invite your comments now.
>
> Are you pleased or displeased that the Republicans are holding their
> national convention here? Do you expect the convention to be disruptive
> or smooth? Do you think it will be a net gain or a net loss for St Paul
> financially? Do you have any reactions to the event as an exercise in
> democracy or for any potential loss of civil liberties? Do you think the
> convention will benefit Republicans like Tim Pawlenty and Norm Coleman,
> or do you think it will harm their political futures? What about the
> Democrats like Chris Coleman or Al Franken...same question? Do you expect
> any change in relations between the St Paul police and other groups? What
> are your reactions to all the preparations so far? Do you expect protests
> to be violent or peaceful?
>
> Or fill in your own question and then answer it. Several of us have
> been spouting off and most of you have been lurking. Not it's your turn
> to talk.
>
>
> Charley Underwood
> Longfellow (SD 62 A), Minneapolis
> Info about Charley Underwood:
>
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/charleyunderwood<;http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/charleyunderwood>
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7JRmEGwMn0uEg7lcrC3E8J<;http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7JRmEGwMn0uEg7lcrC3E8J>
>
>Gloria Bogen
>West Side = Best Side, St Paul
>Info about Gloria Bogen: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/gloriabogen
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1bQ0WUT067CK4kx0YidvWD
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Charley, as you know I almost never pass up my turn to talk and seldom
am asked. And I don't know why, even tho several have told me. Perhaps
it is just my surprisingly long learning curve.

I do have doubts about my RNC opinions in total but I am displeased
over it being held here. But I am displeased about almost anything
Republican and extending democracy to them is taxing for me, still I
do believe it should be done and do it.

I expect the RNC to go smoothly and not disruptive altho it will
restrict my movement greatly.

I think it will be a net financial gain for St. Paul and in fact hope
to sell some buttons myself altho that endeavor will end in some
financial loss. You have one yourself, or had one or more before you
gave them away. You may recall it said "Vote Democratic -- Spineless
is better than Evil". I got the cost back on that so had a new one
made just for the RNC: "GOP -- Wide Stands, Narrow Minds". It is
illustrated. They are available to SPIFfers at about cost, $1,
otherwise I try to get three bucks; ick, a budding capitalist after
all these years.

I suspect the RNC will further erode our civil liberties somewhat
which is a shame. We are potentially a great country and we should be
expansive internally and not so risky externally. Our eagle is so
weighted down with arrows in its one claw and the smallest twig of
peace in the other and so awkward in maneuvering with two right wings
it seems bound to crash. On the other hand I am hoping my phone is
tapped by the government, maybe someone is listening to my plaints.

I think the St. Paul RNC will benefit Tim Pawlenty and hope it does. I
think it will hurt Norm and, regretably hope it does, altho he is not
a bad guy personally and did a good job in planting all those trees
around here, if, indeed, he did. I wish we could afford to water them.

I hope the convention will help Chris. I listened to him on NPR
yesterday and he is doing quite well under the circumstances.

As for police and preparations, I think they have done well in
planning for this intrusion and further intrusions which may develop.
If there are large crowds of protestors I hope it is peaceful. On the
recent SPIF subject of cameras, and if some violence does occur, I
hope the police can refrain themselves from smashing the peoples'
cameras.

Despite my general optimism about the RNC being here, I do think the
people are certainly on solid ground resenting the intrusion, not to
speak of the Republicans and their administration in general. I had
planned to be away myself because of it, but due to circumstances
beyond my control I will have to stay.

I sincerely hope it will be a success for the city and I know that
there is always an increased danger if the people take to the streets.
All should remember that the great strength of the capitalist system
is the free market which exists everywhere we are. One of its
fundamentals is that the poorer the people, the larger the police
force and, sadly, often vise versa. In the long run a dangerous
circumstance, and something to be worked on.

Thanks for asking Charley.

Downtown Al Uhl

On Aug 21, 2008, at 12:06 AM, Charley Underwood wrote:

> My own views are pretty well known on the subject. Several others
> have addressed at least some aspects of the Republican National
> Convention, beginning on September 1. But the vast majority of
> forum readers have not said much at all about the big event. I
> would invite your comments now.
>
> Are you pleased or displeased that the Republicans are holding their
> national convention here? Do you expect the convention to be
> disruptive or smooth? Do you think it will be a net gain or a net
> loss for St Paul financially? Do you have any reactions to the
> event as an exercise in democracy or for any potential loss of civil
> liberties? Do you think the convention will benefit Republicans
> like Tim Pawlenty and Norm Coleman, or do you think it will harm
> their political futures? What about the Democrats like Chris
> Coleman or Al Franken...same question? Do you expect any change in
> relations between the St Paul police and other groups? What are
> your reactions to all the preparations so far? Do you expect
> protests to be violent or peaceful?
>
> Or fill in your own question and then answer it. Several of us have
> been spouting off and most of you have been lurking. Not it's your
> turn to talk.
>
>
> Charley Underwood
> Longfellow (SD 62 A), Minneapolis
> Info about Charley Underwood:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/charleyunderwood
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7JRmEGwMn0uEg7lcrC3E8J

Rest of post

I am headed out of town! I have a place to go and I am going there. On the
otherhand, I have tried to make sure my community gardens look spiffy, which
they do.

I was at a meeting this AM where MNDOT said that all of their metro (St.
Paul and near by?)work has been put on hold by the FBI. I wonder how much
that kind of delay, maybe 2-3 weeks, impacts projects costs.

Jeanne Weigum
In Merriam Park noting traffic delays, street narrowing, on Snelling Avenue
during fair week. UGGGG

The whole thing has been a learning experience, to be sure. Unfortunately,
much of what I have learned is deeply depressing, and I hope I don't turn into
a bitter old man. I'll never comprehend why people don't like me simply
because I don't like war, lies, greed, etc. Perhaps the worst feeling is when
mothers of soldiers get angry and jump to the false conclusion that I do not
respect and honor their sons and daughters. And the "let them win" mantra
drives me bonkers. We are working on a tribute to the fallen - do you realize
how long it takes to show 4,145 names? Another irritant is the World Trade
Center "argument," as if I've forgotten about that, and as if little kids
should die for the actions of 19 deranged men.

Free speech is hardly free, and attempts to speak out are met with complaints
as petty as "what about my poor little dog?" Dear Lord. But all in all, the
Good is outweighing the Bad, locally. There are a ton of fine people around
here, including City workers and electeds. Some have bent over backwards and I
will always be grateful. Even people who disagree with my methods have shown
respect, or have at least politely ignored me.

The Fear Factor is really getting old, and so is the petty crap on the radio.
I had my first Sean Hannity experience the other week and I could hardly
believe my ears. Assailing Obama because he knows proper tire inflation helps
mileage? Heaven help all of us who want to make little differences in this
world. I asked a friend "How can people live in such selfish denial of the
truth?" and we couldn't really come up with an answer. But clearly things are
going wrong early on in many children's developmental stages.

But I digress... Back to Saint Small... About 50 weeks ago my "life" fell off
the back of my scooter while cruising to work down E. 3rd St. I noticed the
dangling bungee within 5 or 10 minutes of the incident and spent the next hour
searching feverishly for it. To no avail. Someone had found it and taken it.
Apparently calling me didn't enter their mind. The bag contained my work
laptop, an external drive with hours of LP-to-WAV files, a camera, a wallet, a
geek stick, a 3-ring binder of West End menus, and lots of other valuable
stuff. In the wallet was a single personal blank check. This check was used
to make an electronic withdrawal from Wal-Mart in Hastings. Then again at
another Wal-mart. Then months later, I got a cryptic call from a
lawyer/collection agency telling me I had 39 outstanding checks for $9,900.
These "checks" were used at SuperAmerica and other places months after I closed
the account right after the incident.

I tell you this not just because Wal-Mart and SuperAmerica made errors and
expected me to pay for them, but because 6 weeks ago, I got a call from the
SPPD saying the found some of my stuff while serving a search warrant. This
was very exciting, as you can imagine. The Sgt on the East Side was, and still
is, very pleasant and helpful. But do you think he had time to deal with my
case? No, he's too busy with RNC BS. They are too busy working to protect me
from myself, essentially, based on fear. This rubs me the wrong way.

So I get my scooter stolen last week. Do you think the Police are going to
look for it? No, they can't. Meanwhile, shots were fired recently near
Jefferson and Victoria, and ATF agents responded (one lives nearby). Someone
got robbed at the end of our block. I approached a drug deal across the street
and was not treated nicely. I witnessed one of our local hairdressers buying
crack on a W 7th St sidewalk, in broad daylight. I got so sick of fireworks
that I brought our intimidating dog over to the church parking lot to get rid
of them. There are many more incidents involving my neighbors.

The point is that we are getting victimized and are forced to take matters into
our own hands, lest our neighborhood go to hell. And it's because of a stupid
convention. It's not only frustrating, it's scary and dangerous. Much scarier
and dangerous than Americans exercising their Constitutional right to say what
they feel.

I don't think anything horrible will happen during the RNC. Nothing worse than
what I've seen during the build-up to it. If it does, it will be the fault of
the people with weapons, just like in the world at large. Some people will
make a bit of extra money, but the promised house rentals and restaurant
parties are a joke. At least we've had to take a critical look at ourselves as
a City, and realized that there's more to life than Marketing.

Maybe the best thing to come out of this so far is one of the only things in
the world Doucheray and I will agree on - Coney Island is opening, if only
temporarily. (Pop! was good last night, too - don't forget you can park FREE
FOR THREE hours in the Lawson ramp. Just don't stumble under one of the
cameras.)

Enough rambling...

Rest of post

Mark_Twain.jpg 1.42mb

On 8/21/08, Andrew Hine <<email obscured>> wrote:
> So I get my scooter stolen last week. Do you think the Police are going to
look for it? No, they can't. Meanwhile, shots were fired recently near
Jefferson and Victoria, and ATF agents responded (one lives nearby). Someone
got robbed at the end of our block. I approached a drug deal across the street
and was not treated nicely. I witnessed one of our local hairdressers buying
crack on a W 7th St sidewalk, in broad daylight. I got so sick of fireworks
that I brought our intimidating dog over to the church parking lot to get rid
of them. There are many more incidents involving my neighbors.
>
> The point is that we are getting victimized and are forced to take matters
into our own hands, lest our neighborhood go to hell. And it's because of a
stupid convention.

So North Minneapolis can blame the RNC for these same issues going
back 5 or 10 years? Maybe longer? Excellent.

John Harris
webber-camden, mpls

Tempest in a teapot? Sorry (really) for being so cynical but a few days of bad
traffic and Republican's trysting the night away can't really bother me, I'm
numb. Compared to the horrific damage done in the last seven years this little
party of the privileged just doesn't seem to push my buttons.

I marched and protested and wound up in a Federal joint over Vietnam. Did I
really accomplish any policy shift? Hell no. LBJ was actually upset by
chanters, Nixon was well, Nixon. Cheney/Bush have done the impossible--They
have out-Nixoned Nixon. Why in the world should I jump up and down in front of
the Xcel to no possible effect?

I shall instead work very hard for regime change in my country and if again we
as a people fail, I really do love Vancouver.

Jon Gorder

Rest of post

Come on John, it was a good story told from the perspective of someone who
pays attention to details. (Andrew is an engineer,. after all) I do not
believe he was trying to blame all of our sociatal problems on the RNC, like
you suggest.
Where is your story about your neighborhood and the responses you get from
your cops? Do you have one or would you rather just pick on those who care
enough to share their stories and experiences in hopes that others will
benefit, somehow, from that sharing?
Gjerry Berquist
West Side

I think John's post illustrates that there is crime Metro-wide that
requires tremendous resources to get any kind of handle on, and the
West 7th drug deals Andrew relates to us -- John might discuss N.
Mpls deals as Gerry suggests, but it would not belong here on SPIF --
are an example of just how the insane prohibition of drugs and other
vice makes this crime an exponentially greater problem than it would
be if we dealt with these problems directly using the right tools to
do the job: regulation and direct interventions funded with the money
we save by ending, not the least among our wars, the drug war.

Maybe we can get some RNC delegates to go places to just say "no" to
our pimps, prostitutes, and drug dealers on their breaks from the
Xcel; Andrew could loan them his dog or perhaps to bolster their
confidence, their conceal/carry permits could be expedited for the
purpose of supplementing our inadequate (inadequate in terms of the
problem we have created, but I'm sure there's a Republican arsenal
here for them to draw on) police force. Whether it's to say "no" to
or to do business with the vice merchants, I hope that we can
accommodate these visiting folks Minnesota Nicely or some other-ly
ways. ;-) (Karl Rove has an op-ed on conventions in the Wall St.
Journal; keep listening to the master, big 'R' folks, on how to pull
the wool over their eyes)

Rest of post

I don't think anything exciting will happen because a lot of people
seem to want to skip it. I guess we just aren't as sexy as places like
Toledo, Ohio or Wilmington, Delaware but that's fine with me. I like a
quiet and sleepy little town.

And, to tack onto the post...a lot of the talk about security cameras
and police and all of that meshes well with a book I'm reading. Truth
be told, I got it for my son and he loved it so now it's my turn. The
book is called Little Brother by Cory Doctorow. He's an electronic
freedoms activist and usually writes about technology. The title is a
reference to 1984. Here is a synopsis:

Marcus, a.k.a "w1n5t0n," is only seventeen years old, but he figures
he already knows how the system works–and how to work the system.
Smart, fast, and wise to the ways of the networked world, he has no
trouble outwitting his high school's intrusive but clumsy surveillance
systems.

But his whole world changes when he and his friends find themselves
caught in the aftermath of a major terrorist attack on San Francisco.
In the wrong place at the wrong time, Marcus and his crew are
apprehended by the Department of Homeland Security and whisked away to
a secret prison where they're mercilessly interrogated for days.

When the DHS finally releases them, Marcus discovers that his city has
become a police state where every citizen is treated like a potential
terrorist. He knows that no one will believe his story, which leaves
him only one option: to take down the DHS himself.

It can be downloaded for free here:
http://craphound.com/littlebrother/download/

Chris Rybisky
Cathedral Hill

RNC convention thoughts:

*** Whether demonstrations get out of hand will
depend, in large part, on the capacity of the
police to react in a shrewd and measured manner.
I think the local force will do fine, but I am
more than a little concerned about the deputy
sheriff types they are pulling in from rural
areas.

*** I know there is considerable trepidation in
official circles about the intentions of the
so-called "anarchists". Apparently, some folks
have been observed taking pics of critical
installations (bridges, water treatment plant,
etc.) - but if I were a radical looking to rattle
officials, that's exactly what I would be doing.
I expect nothing to come of it.

*** If there is trouble with demonstrators, and
it is not handled appropriately by the police, we
will be open to a nightmare of litigation and
damage awards ala NYC. I may be mistaken, but I
believe any such costs will have to be borne by
the city.

*** Despite the $50 mil that has been deposited
in the city's coffers to pay for RNC expenses, I
doubt if that comes close to the real cost - if
you factor in time spent on RNC matters instead
of regular city business. It does seem as though
a huge swath of city government people have been
doing little else for the last month but
spending their time on RNC-related activities.

*** Certainly, the RNC will be good for hotels
and eateries, but for regular retail
establishments -- not so good I suspect. 7
Corners Hardware, for instance, will be open, but
their parking lot will be closed, which will slow
business to a standstill --- unless
conventioneers are looking to buy nuts and bolts
and power tools.

*** For ordinary citizens (except those who
travel downtown for work), I doubt if the RNC
festivities will be anything more than a tiny
blip on their radar screen.

*** "Enhance the image of STP?" I doubt very
much if the city will get one more convention or
one additional tourist in the future because of
the RNC. But I give the Mayor enormous credit for
doing everything he can to put our best foot
forward --- akin to making lemonade out of a
lemon.

Me? Unlike Jeanne Weigum, I can't leave town.
But if any of the convention attendees want to
take a break and tour some of the metro area dog
parks, well, they can give me a holler

--

Charley,

I really don't care much about the convention. There won't be anything said or
presented that hasn't been heard before. The exception may be the announcement
of the VP candidate. I have no desire to see any of the "famous" visitors,
democrat or republican, in person. When I watch the nightly news coverage it
could just as well be at some Hollywood stage lot.

What really does upset me is the extensive security. I think it is a very sad
state of affairs that leaders of our country as well as citizen delegates have
to live in fear of life and limb. It has nothing to do with which party holds
the presidency. I am certain the same precautions would be exercised if it were
democrat president, congressman, and mayors at a national democrat convention
here in town. The fact that officials are sealing off dozens of city blocks,
wasting multi millions of dollars, and installing dozens of spy cameras is
outrageous in a "free" country. It certainly doesn't present a very good image
of America to the rest of the world. It is especially disheartening because
those who are causing all this security to be put in place are Americans!

I am really PO'd that the demonstrators pervert the idea of free speech in
order to disrupt the event. It is not that they are going to another part of
town to freely express their ideas. No they have to butt right in front of the
microphones at the convention and steal the attention from the other guy. They
cry for their freedom of speech as they try their hardest to deny some else his
freedom of speech. How irronic is that? And as mentioned by someone here
earlier, their actions will do nothing to change the convention. Their actions
only hurt the concept of freedom and free speech. But they are too self
centered to see that!

It is very sad.

Dean Sheldon

Rest of post

Not much to say that others who are not happy with this decision haven't
already said. I just hope the city doesn't lose money on this deal. And
that our rights are protected, the lawsuits are few, and settled cheaply so
my tax dollars can be spent fixing up the city. I plan to march on Monday,
but will stay to the rear of the crowd. Can't imagine what will happen if
50,000 people can't turn around in a very tight space when they get to the
Xcel--or if they don't do it soon enough for somebody's wishes.

That said, sponsoring a Republican convention is a dirty job but somebody's
got to do it.

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: Charley Underwood [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 12:06 AM
To: St. Paul Issues Forum
Subject: [SPIF] What do YOU think about the RNC?

My own views are pretty well known on the subject. Several others have
addressed at least some aspects of the Republican National Convention,
beginning on September 1. But the vast majority of forum readers have not
said much at all about the big event. I would invite your comments now.

Are you pleased or displeased that the Republicans are holding their
national convention here? Do you expect the convention to be disruptive or
smooth? Do you think it will be a net gain or a net loss for St Paul
financially? Do you have any reactions to the event as an exercise in
democracy or for any potential loss of civil liberties? Do you think the
convention will benefit Republicans like Tim Pawlenty and Norm Coleman, or
do you think it will harm their political futures? What about the Democrats
like Chris Coleman or Al Franken...same question? Do you expect any change
in relations between the St Paul police and other groups? What are your
reactions to all the preparations so far? Do you expect protests to be
violent or peaceful?

Or fill in your own question and then answer it. Several of us have been
spouting off and most of you have been lurking. Not it's your turn to talk.

Charley Underwood
Longfellow (SD 62 A), Minneapolis
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Dean;

AMEN. AMEN.AMEN.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dean Sheldon<mailto:<email obscured>>
To: St. Paul Issues Forum<mailto:stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org> ;
Charley Underwood<mailto:<email obscured>>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [SPIF] What do YOU think about the RNC?

Charley,

I really don't care much about the convention. There won't be anything said
or presented that hasn't been heard before. The exception may be the
announcement of the VP candidate. I have no desire to see any of the "famous"
visitors, democrat or republican, in person. When I watch the nightly news
coverage it could just as well be at some Hollywood stage lot.

What really does upset me is the extensive security. I think it is a very sad
state of affairs that leaders of our country as well as citizen delegates have
to live in fear of life and limb. It has nothing to do with which party holds
the presidency. I am certain the same precautions would be exercised if it were
democrat president, congressman, and mayors at a national democrat convention
here in town. The fact that officials are sealing off dozens of city blocks,
wasting multi millions of dollars, and installing dozens of spy cameras is
outrageous in a "free" country. It certainly doesn't present a very good image
of America to the rest of the world. It is especially disheartening because
those who are causing all this security to be put in place are Americans!

I am really PO'd that the demonstrators pervert the idea of free speech in
order to disrupt the event. It is not that they are going to another part of
town to freely express their ideas. No they have to butt right in front of the
microphones at the convention and steal the attention from the other guy. They
cry for their freedom of speech as they try their hardest to deny some else his
freedom of speech. How irronic is that? And as mentioned by someone here
earlier, their actions will do nothing to change the convention. Their actions
only hurt the concept of freedom and free speech. But they are too self
centered to see that!

It is very sad.

Dean Sheldon

Rest of post

Jeanne:

This is how the outlandish rumors get going.

I called MNDOT and no projects have been put on hold for the Republican
Convention.

THE FBI is not in charge of security. Try the Secret Service.

Have a nice trip.

Tom Meemken
Battle Creek
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanne Weigum<mailto:<email obscured>>
To: St. Paul Issues Forum<mailto:stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [SPIF] What do YOU think about the RNC?

I am headed out of town! I have a place to go and I am going there. On the
otherhand, I have tried to make sure my community gardens look spiffy, which
they do.

I was at a meeting this AM where MNDOT said that all of their metro (St.
Paul and near by?)work has been put on hold by the FBI. I wonder how much
that kind of delay, maybe 2-3 weeks, impacts projects costs.

Jeanne Weigum
In Merriam Park noting traffic delays, street narrowing, on Snelling Avenue
during fair week. UGGGG

Jeanne Weigum
Merriam Park, Saint Paul
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"This is how the outlandish rumors get going."

GEEZ I love to be called an outlandish rumor monger. Here is the whole story
and nothing but the story. I was at a meeting at MNDOT. A very senior project
manager told the entire group that they were shut down on metro projects upon
orders of the FBI.

Seemed like a reasonable thing: get rid of traffic delays, etc.
Seemed like an unimpeachable source.

Jeanne Weigum
under blue skys in Merriam Park

Rest of post

--- On Sat, 8/23/08, THOMAS MEEMKEN <<email obscured>> wrote:
> Jeanne:
>
> This is how the outlandish rumors get going.
>
> I called MNDOT and no projects have been put on hold for
> the Republican Convention.
>
> THE FBI is not in charge of security. Try the Secret
> Service.
>
> Have a nice trip.
>
>
> Tom Meemken
> Battle Creek

Tom,

Being in charge doesn't mean there isn't any input from other law enforcement.

Secret Service is working with the FBI to provide the security plan for both
conventions.

An August 23rd Star Tribune story on the security for the RNC had the following
paragraph:
-
"They'll (Dakota County Officers) be among roughly 3,500 officers coming to
help from throughout the United States, said Tom Walsh, a spokesman for the St.
Paul Police Department, which is coordinating security with the FBI."
--
Tell us Tom, is the SPPD spokesman Tom Walsh passing on an 'outlandish rumor'
on their coordination with the FBI?

This convention is just that, a convention. I'm not protesting anything or
leaving town. I'm going to hang out with some of my favorite national media
pundits (one who's a relative), and give the Democratic view whenever its
called for.

People who work in major event planning for companies and associations will be
watching. If we want to make more money off of our city's ability to market
itself, then you all should be hoping for a well-ran convention.

Eric Mitchell
Eastside

I keep hearing that it will be good for the economy of Saint Paul and
Minneapolis. How can we get an accounting of how good it was for the economy
of Saint Paul and Minneapolis?

--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Nancy <<email obscured>> wrote:

> I keep hearing that it will be good for the economy of Saint
> Paul and Minneapolis. How can we get an accounting of how
> good it was for the economy of Saint Paul and Minneapolis?
>

Check your previous post about your 'wee-cart'. If you make a cent over cost-
you win!
The local press will follow up with the boom or bust of the convention and our
local businesses.

On a bigger scale again, the city will be on display to the whole world. Saint
Paul does not have a reputation as a convention city. It would be nice if this
pulled off as such.

Having the Republican Convention here does not make Saint Paul into the
Republican Party Sanctuary City. We are hosting an event, that's it, when they
leave, the city will once again be inhabited by DFLers eight times over the
Republican numbers. So, let them have their day- we will have ours in November,
as we do every November here.

Eric Mitchell
St Paul's Eastside
Ward 6

Here's a study that identifies a few criteria to review economic benefits of
conventions (after the fact).
http://www.beaconhill.org/NewsReleases/DNCBoston04_BHIUpdate41304.pdf

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Mitchell [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 8:47 AM
To: St. Paul Issues Forum; Nancy
Subject: Re: [SPIF] What do YOU think about the RNC?

--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Nancy <<email obscured>> wrote:

> I keep hearing that it will be good for the economy of Saint
> Paul and Minneapolis. How can we get an accounting of how
> good it was for the economy of Saint Paul and Minneapolis?
>

Check your previous post about your 'wee-cart'. If you make a cent over
cost- you win!
The local press will follow up with the boom or bust of the convention and
our local businesses.

On a bigger scale again, the city will be on display to the whole world.
Saint Paul does not have a reputation as a convention city. It would be nice
if this pulled off as such.

Having the Republican Convention here does not make Saint Paul into the
Republican Party Sanctuary City. We are hosting an event, that's it, when
they leave, the city will once again be inhabited by DFLers eight times over
the Republican numbers. So, let them have their day- we will have ours in
November, as we do every November here.

Eric Mitchell
St Paul's Eastside
Ward 6

Eric Mitchell
Payne Phalen , Saint Paul
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Interesting. I've always suspected that it was a bigger loss than windfall.
I was sure that 6 weeks of lost revenue from closing and remodeling the Xcel
Center wasn't part of the equation, nor was the lost productivity of
downtown workers (like me).

Rest of post

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