Figure out how to do rental right
Summary
- There are 16 posts — by 11 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Anthony Schmitz at 2010 Apr 13 21:07 UTC
I attended the March 23 District 7 Planning Council Community Concerns meeting and listened to neighbors discuss the latest Greater Frogtown CDC rental initiative. Many in the room were upset about a project that would turn more homes in the neighborhood into rental. District 7 hosted a meeting about the initiative late last year and the community had voted against supporting it. Patty Lammers from the CDC was at the March 23 meeting to tell the community that the organization had received federal dollars to proceed forward with 8 properties - fixing them up, hiring property managers and moving in families. The CDC would put together an advisory board to help guide the program since this marks the first time in its 15-year history that the organization would become landlords. Preserving rental is a part of the CDC's work, Lammers said. Having a good balance of rental and homeowner-occupied homes in the neighborhood creates healthy communities, she added. Neighbors expressed concerns. Some said they were adamantly opposed to increasing the number of rental properties. Clearly, the neighbors are not saying all tenants in Greater Frogtown are bad and that all rental properties are bringing down home values, but would I have felt comfortable as a tenant sitting in that meeting? My family and I rented two homes in Frogtown when I was in high school -- on the 700 block of Minnehaha Avenue West and the 600 block of Blair. If this program is going to happen anyway and if bad renters and absentee landlords have consistently been a problem for Frogtown, then the neighborhood is being given a chance now to have a say in how rental properties should be run. Instead of empty,foreclosed homes taking over Frogtown, the CDC program will rehab those homes and get families in them. The owner of the homes -- the CDC -- will be in the neighborhood and neighbors know who to get a hold of when problems arise. This is vastly different from most scenarios when landlords never even bother to post their name and phone number on the house as is required, let alone visit the properties regularly. Is this program really that bad for Frogtown? Is rental better than having a vacant house next door? If our experiences with rental properties have been poor, what actions can we take to hold landlords more accountable? Is there really ever a way to control who moves in on our block?
Boa, Thanks for your thoughtful post. I'm sorry that I missed the March 23 Community Concerns meeting. In a few community meetings I have heard the opinion that renters are bad for the community. I'm guessing that most people have rented at one point in their life. Many people cannot fit home ownership into their life or budget. Renting may be a more responsible choice for the person. This doesn't make them bad neighbors. An empty or rundown house with an absentee landlord who doesn't care for the property or renters makes a lousy neighbor. I am absolutely in support of the CDC putting efforts into managing rentals. I believe a public program will focus on providing safe, up to code, and affordable homes for people who rent. One of the benefits is that the CDC isn't looking for profit. There is an article in today's (3/28) Pioneer Press about a landlord in Frogtown called "Is any home good enough for the homeless?" It asks the question whether landlords who provide affordable housing to people (who may otherwise be homeless) should be held to implementing seemingly expensive building codes. It's provocative and worth the read. http://www.twincities.com/ci_14766594?nclick_check=1 While I would love to see everyone have a home, I also cannot abide by landlords who disregard codes just because their renters are poor.
Sarah
Thanks for your efforts, Greater Frogtown CDC. Don't be discouraged by the resistance & keep up the push. Let's get this done. I would also be interested in a community effort that serves as a watchdog on landlords who are predatory and abusive to vulnerable renters. Frankly, complaints about building code expenses can be an easy cover for many landlords who do not want to spend money to make a unit habitable for low-income tenants. Jessica Webster
Thanks to everyone for your input. I forgot to mention that you can call the Greater Frogtown CDC if you want to learn more about the program or find out how you might be able to serve on the advisory board they are putting together. Patty Lammers gave out her phone number at the District 7 meeting: 651-789-7485.
Thanks for everyone's thoughtful comments on this topic. I wanted to throw out one more bit of information. The City of St. Paul is in the process of turning over ownership of some properties they have purchased with NSP funds to private developers that will own the properties as rental properties. How do people feel a this idea? Is it not better to have a community controlled organization in ownership?
thanks Patty
I am so horrified--appalled--I can't find quite the word to express it--at the idea of property belonging to the City (us)being given to private developers to
--what--mismanage? overprice? otherwise mess with, when the community could
benefit
from and definitely needs additional clean safe and affordable rentals. We
need to stop this idea in it's tracks.
Thanks for the heads-up, Patty.
Ann Jalonen
Don't worry about it.
Harold Gatensby
> From: <email obscured>
> Subject: [Frogtown] Figure out how to do rental right
> To: <email obscured>
> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2010 07:48:02 +1200
>
> Thanks for everyone's thoughtful comments on this topic. I wanted to throw
out one more bit of information. The City of St. Paul is in the process of
turning over ownership of some properties they have purchased with NSP funds to
private developers that will own the properties as rental properties. How do
people feel a this idea? Is it not better to have a community controlled
organization in ownership?
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> Patty
> Patty Lammers
> North End/Frogtown, St. Paul
> Info about Patty Lammers: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/pattylammers
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7zgkrsfQoNkymG64MGiC6M
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I'm pretty glad that the Frogtown CDC is doing this moving into the rental market. The biggest concern I have about light rail based gentrification is that renters will be the first and quickest squeezed out, and having a nonprofit community group in the rental market seems to be a plus. I can see the people in the neighborhood worrying about renters, because they are thought to be all sorts of things - sketchy, don't care, etc. A lot of the anti-renter bias is classism; now, having named it doesn't make it go away, but homeowners, if scared, tend to resist the idea of people poorer than they are in the neighborhood. Like having a cruddy job is somehow a communicable disease... The NSP money is a little messed up; the first one from the Bush era had a lot of harsh limits that didn't allow flexibility. They specifically say that property bought has to be turned over for some level of profit. But I'd guess that nonprofit developers would qualify as well as for-profit. And given the lousy control over landlords, I'm with Ann that if they are shoveling these properties into the hands of for profit folks, this is one huge missed opportunity.
I think the better question is . . . Why can't these properties be handed over to residents of Frogtown, give them rehab money, and let them be the landlords that reap the benefits of the extra income?? Just a thought. Tait A. Danielson Castillo I do not live in Frogtown, I just work here Director Frogtown Neighborhood Association formally District 7 Planning Council P.S. - I also think anyone who posts here should have to say whether or not they live in the neighborhood, at the end of every post.
Good Morning Fella Frogtown Residents! I can only speak from my personal experience from where I live (off of between University & Thomas near Western). I own property and live AT/ON the same property for 7 years. Believe me sometimes it is better to have vacant property instead of bad renters and landlords. The problem I see is that we need more owner-occupied property, especially with the number of duplexes in the area. I feel the City has created a monster by allowing vacant properties to sit empty without listening to the residents. I cannot tell you how many time I have called the city attempting to get information on how to obtain information on a property on my street. I work with several people that are interested in getting a home that has set vacant. There was a house across the street from me that was being repaired. One day some one came & was taking windows & doors out to demolish it. The fella had no idea why. Then the City showed up(accompanied by the police), flashed some papers around and that was that. NOW, these investors and non-profits would like to come in and 'take care' of our problem when the residents have NOT been given a fair shake. I have seen very good renters move into the block only to be driven out by high rent as several of these 'investors' charge unbelievable rents! $900 for a 2 bedroom or $1,000 for a 3 bedroom? This is just another example of landlord abuse and an example of what many residents do NOT want in our neighborhood. Norma Roberts-Hakizimana Frogtown/STP, MN. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 06:36:02 To: <email obscured>> Subject: [Frogtown] Figure out how to do rental right I attended the March 23 District 7 Planning Council Community Concerns meeting and listened to neighbors discuss the latest Greater Frogtown CDC rental initiative. Many in the room were upset about a project that would turn more homes in the neighborhood into rental. District 7 hosted a meeting about the initiative late last year and the community had voted against supporting it. Patty Lammers from the CDC was at the March 23 meeting to tell the community that the organization had received federal dollars to proceed forward with 8 properties - fixing them up, hiring property managers and moving in families. The CDC would put together an advisory board to help guide the program since this marks the first time in its 15-year history that the organization would become landlords. Preserving rental is a part of the CDC's work, Lammers said. Having a good balance of rental and homeowner-occupied homes in the neighborhood creates healthy communities, she added. Neighbors expressed concerns. Some said they were adamantly opposed to increasing the number of rental properties. Clearly, the neighbors are not saying all tenants in Greater Frogtown are bad and that all rental properties are bringing down home values, but would I have felt comfortable as a tenant sitting in that meeting? My family and I rented two homes in Frogtown when I was in high school -- on the 700 block of Minnehaha Avenue West and the 600 block of Blair. If this program is going to happen anyway and if bad renters and absentee landlords have consistently been a problem for Frogtown, then the neighborhood is being given a chance now to have a say in how rental properties should be run. Instead of empty,foreclosed homes taking over Frogtown, the CDC program will rehab those homes and get families in them. The owner of the homes -- the CDC -- will be in the neighborhood and neighbors know who to get a hold of when problems arise. This is vastly different from most scenarios when landlords never even bother to post their name and phone number on the house as is required, let alone visit the properties regularly. Is this program really that bad for Frogtown? Is rental better than having a vacant house next door? If our experiences with rental properties have been poor, what actions can we take to hold landlords more accountable? Is there really ever a way to control who moves in on our block? Boa Lee St. Paul Info about Boa Lee: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/66d8svB70rC3wM8xIm00DG View all messages on this topic at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/39hE6WtEEcEv37K4fPpmix ----------------------------------------- To post, e-mail: <email obscured> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly. To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on" in subject, then send to: <email obscured> More information about St. Paul Greater Frogtown Neighbors Forum: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-frogtown E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules ----------------------------------------- Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
A request to Patty Lammers or Boa — could you please provide more detail on this sentence from the posts above: "The City of St. Paul is in the process of turning over ownership of some properties they have purchased with NSP funds to private developers that will own the properties as rental properties." Does "turning over" mean selling these properties to private developers or giving these properties to private developers? Seems like a crazy question, but I've heard that it is the latter. If true, what's the reasoning? I'd love more information on this. On the broader question, I care far more about the behavior of the people who live next to me than I do about whether they own the property or not. In my experience, it's actually easier to get rid of drug dealers who rent than drug dealers who own.
I agree that the management should not be outsourced to private companies. I am with Tait when it comes to having the residents oversee the fate of these properties. I am curious how to make his question a reality. I am concerned this outsourcing will be inevitable unless there is some real community organizing around the management of rentals. What are our options to try and make this happen? Having just read Anthony's post. I would also like more details if only to be more informed. Sarah Montgomery Arundel & Van Buren
Thank you Tony. I have also heard that the 'turning over' may indeed be investors 'purchasing' property for as little as $1.00. Now, wouldn't that be an awful thing to have done to local residents who would be interested in such an opportunity? Will that keep $$ local, right here within our own community? Should we have 'others' come here to take care of something neighbors and residents want to do. What is really going on I wonder?? Norma Roberts-Hakizimana Frogtown/STP, MN
------Original Message------ From: Anthony Schmidt Sender: e-democracy Forum To: e-democracy Forum Subject: [Frogtown] Figure out how to do rental right Sent: Apr 12, 2010 19:21 A request to Patty Lammers or Boa — could you please provide more detail on this sentence from the posts above: "The City of St. Paul is in the process of turning over ownership of some properties they have purchased with NSP funds to private developers that will own the properties as rental properties." Does "turning over" mean selling these properties to private developers or giving these properties to private developers? Seems like a crazy question, but I've heard that it is the latter. If true, what's the reasoning? I'd love more information on this. On the broader question, I care far more about the behavior of the people who live next to me than I do about whether they own the property or not. In my experience, it's actually easier to get rid of drug dealers who rent than drug dealers who own. Anthony Schmitz Info about Anthony Schmitz: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/7lUisn9fZnAcnMmKuv6g4Y View all messages on this topic at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6pgw5LxyZRRa5dKZB9XWjq ----------------------------------------- To post, e-mail: <email obscured> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly. To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on" in subject, then send to: <email obscured> More information about St. Paul Greater Frogtown Neighbors Forum: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-frogtown E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules ----------------------------------------- Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
I had the same questions. What is "turning over," and what were the NSP funds for, and how long ago did this happen? (NSP has been Xcel for years now). As a homeowner, I agree with Tony's point about renters. Good renters are great, as are good home-owning neighbors. Unfortunately both seem to be rare in this area sometimes.
Gene -----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of <email obscured> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 7:21 PM To: <email obscured> Subject: [Frogtown] Figure out how to do rental right A request to Patty Lammers or Boa — could you please provide more detail on this sentence from the posts above: "The City of St. Paul is in the process of turning over ownership of some properties they have purchased with NSP funds to private developers that will own the properties as rental properties." Does "turning over" mean selling these properties to private developers or giving these properties to private developers? Seems like a crazy question, but I've heard that it is the latter. If true, what's the reasoning? I'd love more information on this. On the broader question, I care far more about the behavior of the people who live next to me than I do about whether they own the property or not. In my experience, it's actually easier to get rid of drug dealers who rent than drug dealers who own. Anthony Schmitz Info about Anthony Schmitz: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/7lUisn9fZnAcnMmKuv6g4Y View all messages on this topic at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6pgw5LxyZRRa5dKZB9XWjq ----------------------------------------- To post, e-mail: <email obscured> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly. To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on" in subject, then send to: <email obscured> More information about St. Paul Greater Frogtown Neighbors Forum: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-frogtown E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules ----------------------------------------- Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
To answer the question of what NSP funds are, they don't come from the old Northern States Power, predecessor to Xcel Energy. Rather, the Neighborhood Stabilization Program (NSP) is a federal program that provides emergency assistance to state and local governments to acquire and redevelop foreclosed properties that might otherwise become sources of abandonment and blight. Cities who receive NSP funds are largely free to direct them as they feel best serves to stabilize at-risk neighborhoods (including Frogtown). Of course, most cities find foreclosed properties linger in foreclosure for years, have no clear owner of record to hold accountable, and are a general drain on the community and its people. In the Twin Cities, the NSP is aided by a really pretty unique agreement with eight local banks. Instead of letting those properties linger in the limbo of foreclosure for years, those eight banks agreed to turn foreclosed properties over to the Twin Cities Community Land Bank at reduced rates. They do that because they stand to lose far, far more letting the properties sit vacant. The Land Bank in turn works with the Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul to redirect those properties to a better future. Getting the Land Bank endowed with the funding needed to respond quickly was key. Twin Cities government and non-profit leaders helped position our two Cities to secure the funding needed to run the Land Bank, which compared to cities nationally, is a really pretty unique and aggressive tool to help respond to the destabilization caused by foreclosures before it causes lasting damage. Beyond that, I can't tell you much. Anytime you deal with this sort of major property acquisition program, things get complicated quickly. That said, lots and lots of information about the City's participation in the federal Neighborhood Stabilization Program (NSP) can be found here: http://stpaul.gov/index.aspx?nid=2837 Information on NSP nationally can be found at http://hud.gov/offices/cpd/communitydevelopment/programs/neighborhoodspg/ That's what I know. Bob as a helpful volunteer, in no way representing the City
Thanks, Bob and everyone else for your participation. If Patty has more to add, I think it would be best to get those in the know to share what they know. I admit to not knowing enough.
Thanks, Boa On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 8:32 PM, Bob Spaulding <email obscured>>wrote: > To answer the question of what NSP funds are, they don't come from the old > Northern States Power, predecessor to Xcel Energy. Rather, the Neighborhood > Stabilization Program (NSP) is a federal program that provides emergency > assistance to state and local governments to acquire and redevelop > foreclosed properties that might otherwise become sources of abandonment and > blight. Cities who receive NSP funds are largely free to direct them as > they feel best serves to stabilize at-risk neighborhoods (including > Frogtown). > > Of course, most cities find foreclosed properties linger in foreclosure for > years, have no clear owner of record to hold accountable, and are a general > drain on the community and its people. > > In the Twin Cities, the NSP is aided by a really pretty unique agreement > with eight local banks. Instead of letting those properties linger in the > limbo of foreclosure for years, those eight banks agreed to turn foreclosed > properties over to the Twin Cities Community Land Bank at reduced rates. > They do that because they stand to lose far, far more letting the > properties sit vacant. The Land Bank in turn works with the Cities of > Minneapolis and St. Paul to redirect those properties to a better future. > > Getting the Land Bank endowed with the funding needed to respond quickly > was key. Twin Cities government and non-profit leaders helped position our > two Cities to secure the funding needed to run the Land Bank, which compared > to cities nationally, is a really pretty unique and aggressive tool to help > respond to the destabilization caused by foreclosures before it causes > lasting damage. > > Beyond that, I can't tell you much. Anytime you deal with this sort of > major property acquisition program, things get complicated quickly. That > said, lots and lots of information about the City's participation in the > federal Neighborhood Stabilization Program (NSP) can be found here: > http://stpaul.gov/index.aspx?nid=2837 Information on NSP nationally can > be found at > http://hud.gov/offices/cpd/communitydevelopment/programs/neighborhoodspg/ > > That's what I know. > > Bob > as a helpful volunteer, > in no way representing the City > > Bob Spaulding > Pedro Park, Downtown, Saint Paul > Info about Bob Spaulding: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/robertspaulding > > View all messages on this topic at: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/57hZfJewtY2c8qBpupiWH5 > ----------------------------------------- > To post, e-mail: <email obscured> > Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly. > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on" > in subject, then send to: <email obscured> > > More information about St. Paul Greater Frogtown Neighbors Forum: > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/stpaul-frogtown > > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules > ----------------------------------------- > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net > -- Boa Lee ~Communications Professional~ Phone: 651-246-4542 Web site: www.boa-lee.com LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/boalee Skype: boalee.communications Twitter: blcommunication
Hey Bob — thanks for the additional information. The specific part of the transaction that interests me is the transfer of property from the city to what I suppose we could call the end user — the non-profit or private entity that will buy the property and rent it or resell it. What have these prices been, or what are they likely to be? Does anyone out there know? Tait? Patty Lammers? Any government agency or public official lurkers?
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