Lilac rubbish sacks and compulsory wheelie bins

Dear all,

I'm sharing a worrying discovery I have just made. Like many people in
the area I live in a small terraced house with a minute front garden and
have been using lilac rubbish sacks rather than a green wheelie bin
since the wheelie bin scheme came in. Even the 'small' bins are much too
big for us to store, and as quite a green household we would generate
rather less than half a bin of landfill every fortnight anyway (we
don't usually fill a lilac sack).

I just phoned to order a resupply of lilac sacks and was informed that
the council want to move over to wheelie bins only. The person I just
spoke to was nice, I was very grovelly, and I think she will let us have
some more lilac sacks. But this won't help if the dustmen suddenly
decide to leave them on the kerb.

All those who don't physically have the space to house a big, smelly
landfill wheelie bin as well as a blue recycling wheelie bin need to
start complaining and asking for alternative solutions. I got the
impression that the excuse might be health and safety (lilac sacks may
be dangerously heavy?), but I suspect the real reason is ergonomics.

Does anyone know anything about this and what can be done?

Good wishes,

Rest of post

This sounds like a change of policy to me, Liz. Last time New Headington
Residents' Association and I spoke to city officers about this, there was
officer support. I'll look into this as priority because a lot of residents in
the areas around New High St. and Gardiner St. rely on the lilac sacks as their
houses face directly onto the street. It may be miscommunication by someone
covering for holiday leave, I'll find out.

This would be quite worrying for us as well! Living on New High Street, we face
straight onto the pavement and have no facility to access our back garden
except through the house.

There is no way I would bring a wheelie bin through my house once a fortnight!

Dear Ruth,

Thank you very much for this: I thought the issue would be a concern to
quite a lot of people. In fact the story is more involved, in that I
ordered the sacks (I think from the same person I spoke to today, but
not positive) before the bank holiday and all was fine; then today there
was an answering machine message and I phoned her back and she was sort
of reluctant to let me have lilac sacks. In a way I'm not sure what she
expected to achieve since she agreed to send them when I insisted that a
wheelie bin was unsuitable for our house (though clearly the New High
Street people are in a worse position than we are). I hope the issue can
be sorted out in a sensible way!

Good wishes,

Liz

Ruth Wilkinson wrote:
> This sounds like a change of policy to me, Liz. Last time New Headington
Residents' Association and I spoke to city officers about this, there was
officer support. I'll look into this as priority because a lot of residents in
the areas around New High St. and Gardiner St. rely on the lilac sacks as their
houses face directly onto the street. It may be miscommunication by someone
covering for holiday leave, I'll find out.
> Ruth Wilkinson
> Headington, Oxford
> About/contact Ruth Wilkinson:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4sPZdZFjHWvbwjqVXjKjFk
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> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3zjwfQiWijkh1aBiyV7H8t
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Rest of post

I suspect a creeping change of policy. A couple of months ago, I had a
complaint from some elderly Cherwell Drive residents who felt that they were
being forced to take wheelie bins instead of the lilac bags. Because of the
layout of their property and their age, the lilac bags were much more
practical.When I challenged this with City Works, they were fairly insistent
that the residents should have a wheelie bin.

Perhaps we need a more concerted effort by a cross party group of councillors
on this one.

Mary Clarkson (Cllr)
Marston Ward

On 27 Aug 2013, at 20:15, Liz <<email obscured>> wrote:

> Dear Ruth,
>
> Thank you very much for this: I thought the issue would be a concern to
> quite a lot of people. In fact the story is more involved, in that I
> ordered the sacks (I think from the same person I spoke to today, but
> not positive) before the bank holiday and all was fine; then today there
> was an answering machine message and I phoned her back and she was sort
> of reluctant to let me have lilac sacks. In a way I'm not sure what she
> expected to achieve since she agreed to send them when I insisted that a
> wheelie bin was unsuitable for our house (though clearly the New High
> Street people are in a worse position than we are). I hope the issue can
> be sorted out in a sensible way!
>
> Good wishes,
>
> Liz
>
> Ruth Wilkinson wrote:
>> This sounds like a change of policy to me, Liz. Last time New Headington
Residents' Association and I spoke to city officers about this, there was
officer support. I'll look into this as priority because a lot of residents in
the areas around New High St. and Gardiner St. rely on the lilac sacks as their
houses face directly onto the street. It may be miscommunication by someone
covering for holiday leave, I'll find out.
>> Ruth Wilkinson
>> Headington, Oxford
>> About/contact Ruth Wilkinson:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4sPZdZFjHWvbwjqVXjKjFk
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3zjwfQiWijkh1aBiyV7H8t
>>
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>> August 29th from 2am to 6am CENTRAL US for a planned outage
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Rest of post

We use lilac bags and would never fill a wheelie bin - 1 very small sack each
fortnight and everything else is composted or recycled.

We have refused a wheeled bin and will continue to do so. Provision must be
made for alternatives where they are not appropriate.

David Clover
Kennett Road

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Clarkson [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: 27 August 2013 23:03
To: oxford-hm@forums.e-democracy.org
Subject: Re: [Oxford-HM] Lilac rubbish sacks and compulsory wheelie bins

I suspect a creeping change of policy. A couple of months ago, I had a
complaint from some elderly Cherwell Drive residents who felt that they were
being forced to take wheelie bins instead of the lilac bags. Because of the
layout of their property and their age, the lilac bags were much more
practical.When I challenged this with City Works, they were fairly insistent
that the residents should have a wheelie bin.

Perhaps we need a more concerted effort by a cross party group of councillors
on this one.

Mary Clarkson (Cllr)
Marston Ward

On 27 Aug 2013, at 20:15, Liz <<email obscured>> wrote:

> Dear Ruth,
>
> Thank you very much for this: I thought the issue would be a concern
> to quite a lot of people. In fact the story is more involved, in that
> I ordered the sacks (I think from the same person I spoke to today,
> but not positive) before the bank holiday and all was fine; then today
> there was an answering machine message and I phoned her back and she
> was sort of reluctant to let me have lilac sacks. In a way I'm not
> sure what she expected to achieve since she agreed to send them when I
> insisted that a wheelie bin was unsuitable for our house (though
> clearly the New High Street people are in a worse position than we
> are). I hope the issue can be sorted out in a sensible way!
>
> Good wishes,
>
> Liz
>
> Ruth Wilkinson wrote:
>> This sounds like a change of policy to me, Liz. Last time New Headington
Residents' Association and I spoke to city officers about this, there was
officer support. I'll look into this as priority because a lot of residents in
the areas around New High St. and Gardiner St. rely on the lilac sacks as their
houses face directly onto the street. It may be miscommunication by someone
covering for holiday leave, I'll find out.
>> Ruth Wilkinson
>> Headington, Oxford
>> About/contact Ruth Wilkinson:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4sPZdZFjHWvbwjqVXjKjFk
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3zjwfQiWijkh1aBiyV7H8t
>>
>> * E-Democracy Forums will be unavailable on Thursday, August 29th
>> from 2am to 6am CENTRAL US for a planned outage
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>
> Elizabeth Lock
> Oxford
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Mary Clarkson
Old Headington, Oxford City Council
About/contact Mary Clarkson: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/maryclarkson

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This madcap idea really does need addressing, and not just for the residents
affected. Wheelie bins on pavements are at least an irritation and eyesore, an
narrow pavements like say parts of New High Street they are a real hazard and
danger.
Pedestrians, mothers with babies in buggies etc have to walk on the road to
avoid them which is not acceptable. It must be stated this is NOT the fault of
the house owners and tenants. They have no option.
This is not affecting just New High Street but many parts of Headington and
Oxford and I agree that full on concerted effort is need by all to rectify
these poorly thought through changes.
The bags are much more manageable for most people, including our senior
citizens. They are ample for households producing a small amount of landfill
waste, and more are with increased recycling. And they are certainly more
friendly to the nose and eyes than a wheelie bin.
Hopefully our kind helpful councillors will get involved with this issue as it
affects far more people than is thought.

Hi everyone

I've spoken to the city council officer who is responsible for the lilac cracks
and she helpfully sent me the following statement.

As discussed Oxford City Council are not stopping the issue of lilac sacks to
properties that are unable to store wheeled bins.

When the wheeled bin service was introduced, the lilac sacks were brought in
for properties that have no frontage at all, along with recycling boxes and
food waste caddies.

For various reasons, some properties did receive lilac sacks that could have
had wheeled bins. Over the past few years, the number of these properties has
reduced dramatically, in the main due to resident requests for wheeled bins.
This is due to the ease of using them and for storage of waste between
collections.

There are a number of reasons as to why properties might have been removed from
the lilac sack service including:
· Room for a wheeled bin
· On-going cost to the taxpayer for lilac sacks compared to the one off
cost of a wheeled bin
· Properties not having lilac sack contracts
· Reduces health and safety concerns for residents and collection crews
· Ease of collections from wheeled bins
· Issues of vermin getting into the sacks

However, there are always exceptions and we are keen to work with residents in
providing a suitable solutions.

If anyone has any concerns or queries regarding lilac sacks then please contact
us on <email obscured> or 01865249811.

How much more are we willing to pay for rubbish collection? The wheelie bin
system brings the efficiency which enables us to have more rubbish and
recycling collected and allows the waste to be stored safely and cleanly
between collections.

I'm happy with the bins, and the kids like watching the truck collect the
rubbish. If it makes it less of an eyesore for you, I can put some flower
stickers on ours for you.

Please DO NOT speak for families with buggies - I've spent many hours walking
around Headington recently pushing buggies, and I'd put wheelie bins far below
many other nuisances in Headington (loud ambulances for instance - and I'm not
suggesting we get rid of those either) The families with buggies you're
pretending to represent are some of the same people who need the larger wheelie
bins because they have more people living in the house. So while their presence
may offend your superior sensibilities, I think the vast majority of people are
happy with the system as it is.

Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Aug 2013, at 12:43, "Tony Dee" <<email obscured>> wrote:

> This madcap idea really does need addressing, and not just for the residents
affected. Wheelie bins on pavements are at least an irritation and eyesore, an
narrow pavements like say parts of New High Street they are a real hazard and
danger.
> Pedestrians, mothers with babies in buggies etc have to walk on the road to
avoid them which is not acceptable. It must be stated this is NOT the fault of
the house owners and tenants. They have no option.
> This is not affecting just New High Street but many parts of Headington and
Oxford and I agree that full on concerted effort is need by all to rectify
these poorly thought through changes.
> The bags are much more manageable for most people, including our senior
citizens. They are ample for households producing a small amount of landfill
waste, and more are with increased recycling. And they are certainly more
friendly to the nose and eyes than a wheelie bin.
> Hopefully our kind helpful councillors will get involved with this issue as
it affects far more people than is thought.
> Tony Dee
> [u'Headington', u''], [u'Oxford', u'']
> About/contact Tony Dee:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3Ubv7ZB8YAsb6SURWNirUL

Rest of post

I am sure you all realized that by "cracks" Ruth (or rather her predictive
text) meant "sacks": she is unable to post a correction herself, as she has
reached her two-message-a-day limit.

And for those of you reading this on the web, the email address she gave will
be obscured. It is <recycling[at]oxford.gov.uk>

As the one who started the debate I should make clear that all I am
worried about is the continued existence of lilac sacks for those who
need them. Big households need a big bin and wheelie bins are the right
solution there, but it's silly to clutter the place with extra ones for
small households that never fill them. The householder should make the
choice. We need flexibility and to cater for everyone's needs, not just
the waste department's!

Best to all,

Liz

Roger wrote:
> How much more are we willing to pay for rubbish collection? The wheelie bin
system brings the efficiency which enables us to have more rubbish and
recycling collected and allows the waste to be stored safely and cleanly
between collections.
>
> I'm happy with the bins, and the kids like watching the truck collect the
rubbish. If it makes it less of an eyesore for you, I can put some flower
stickers on ours for you.
>
> Please DO NOT speak for families with buggies - I've spent many hours
walking around Headington recently pushing buggies, and I'd put wheelie bins
far below many other nuisances in Headington (loud ambulances for instance -
and I'm not suggesting we get rid of those either) The families with buggies
you're pretending to represent are some of the same people who need the larger
wheelie bins because they have more people living in the house. So while their
presence may offend your superior sensibilities, I think the vast majority of
people are happy with the system as it is.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 28 Aug 2013, at 12:43, "Tony Dee" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>
>> This madcap idea really does need addressing, and not just for the residents
affected. Wheelie bins on pavements are at least an irritation and eyesore, an
narrow pavements like say parts of New High Street they are a real hazard and
danger.
>> Pedestrians, mothers with babies in buggies etc have to walk on the road to
avoid them which is not acceptable. It must be stated this is NOT the fault of
the house owners and tenants. They have no option.
>> This is not affecting just New High Street but many parts of Headington and
Oxford and I agree that full on concerted effort is need by all to rectify
these poorly thought through changes.
>> The bags are much more manageable for most people, including our senior
citizens. They are ample for households producing a small amount of landfill
waste, and more are with increased recycling. And they are certainly more
friendly to the nose and eyes than a wheelie bin.
>> Hopefully our kind helpful councillors will get involved with this issue as
it affects far more people than is thought.
>> Tony Dee
>> [u'Headington', u''], [u'Oxford', u'']
>> About/contact Tony Dee:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3Ubv7ZB8YAsb6SURWNirUL
>>
>> View full topic or share:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5KUWjWej7eHHjgTRSGQEH5
>>
>> * E-Democracy Forums will be unavailable on Thursday,
>> August 29th from 2am to 6am CENTRAL US for a planned outage
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>
> Roger Lai
> [u'Headington', u''], [u'Oxford', u'']
> About/contact Roger Lai:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/52nRKYEIlvi0tphuLWSznf
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Rest of post

Well said Roger.

I think most people agree that, for those with no front garden, plastic sacks
are the only solution.

For everybody with a front garden longer than 1-2 m however we really should
encourage wheelie-bins. Plastic bags are minging; they are not dog-, cat- or
fox-proof, and even when inviolate are not particularly air- or water-tight.
Any which fall over soon start to ooze liquids. There is also the question of
where you keep the bag before you put it out? Are people really keeping these
things in their houses?

Wheelie bins however have a heavy lid which keeps pretty well shut. Any waste
goes straight into it and stays for two weeks.

Can I add that in Coventry wheelie-bins are compulsory, even on terraced
streets. Everyone has a bin outside their house. IT is not as unsightly as
you'd think, and lined up in rows by the front doors they actually look quite
neat. They're mainly hidden by parked cars anyway.

This is not to say the City waste service could not do better; they don't keep
adequate stocks of different sizes of bins, with the result that some of my
bins are far too big [general waste] and others are far too small [garden waste
for which I pay 39 pa].

Rest of post

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