All posts in the topic Let's Reopen Nicollet (Short link)
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- There are 21 posts — by 14 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Stewart Van Cleve at 2006 Aug 06 06:12 UTC
From the Star Tribune coverage of the Mayor's Vision for Minneapolis: "Push the hot development zone in Uptown east to Lyndale Avenue and Nicollet Avenue. "That would provide enough energy to do what everyone in this room knows we need to do--reopen Nicollet Avenue," Rybak said. http://www.startribune.com/462/story/276998.html Well said RT! The reopening of Nicollet Avenue at Lake Street is key to re-connecting the neighborhoods of South Minneapolis and providing a southern connection to the energy and re-investment on Eat Street. The reopening of Nicollet at Lake Street is a priority in the community and my number one priority, from a project perspective, for this term. I understand why the City decided to close Nicollet in the mid-seventies. This was a failure of public policy in the areas of transportation and development. It is a very bad example of a private/public partnership. It's time to correct this mistake. It will take a considerable capital commitment. I am very hopeful, now, that they Mayor names this as a priority. Peace, Robert Lilligren 6th Ward City Council Member Phillips West
Robert Lilligren <email obscured>> wrote:
I understand why the City decided to close Nicollet in the mid-seventies.
This was a failure of public policy in the areas of transportation and
development. It is a very bad example of a private/public partnership. It's
time to correct this mistake.
To this day I DO NOT understand what in the world the thinking (?) was
there. Please, after all these years, enlighten me. I can't recall ever seeing
a neighborhood so instantaniously turned into backwater/slum as was Nicollet
North of Lake after that debacle.
Jon Gorder
Cathedral Hill
Jon Gorder, For the record, again. In 1972/3, Minneapolis got the
authority to create three tax increment financed (TIF) districts from the
State Legislature to do redevelopment. These were the first three TIF
districts ever authorized. Three sites were identified. One on Lake, one
that became the Loring Park Greenway, and a third that became City Center.
Of the three the Nicollet Lake site appeared to be the most straight forward
and was the first to proceed. Upon selling the bonds, the city began to
immediate acquire land and clear it in preparation for development. Several
developers were clearly interested in the site and it looked as if it would
proceed without a hitch, until a recession took hold and the would be
developers were no longer able to get lease commitments from the tenants
they anticipated would locate in the project. With the land already largely
vacant, instead of producing a positive increment the district was not even
producing the tax revenue it had prior to the bond sales and the city was
repaying bond payments out of the general fund. After several years of
hemoraging tax dollars on the district, a developer came forward with the
K-Mart close the Street plan. The Neighborhood in the form of the relatively
new Whittier Alliance and the Stevens Square Neighborhood assoscation, (Both
of which I helped start) actively recognized the damage closing the street
would do to Nicollet. Combined with the existing business community we
actively opposed the street closing. Unfortunately, the drain on the
general fund coffers was a significant concern for the rest of the city
council and led to the approval of the project over my vote and that of
second ward alderman Tom Johnson. Our distate for the project was reflected
by a community arts mural painted on the back of the K-mart building that
depicted a battleship training its guns on the neighborhood. Many lessons
can be drawn from this episode. It is just such lessons that enrich my
perspective on public policy issues and will assist me in becoming a far
more effective state senator, than those with less practical experience.
Former sixth ward alderman and active opponent of the closing of Nicollet,
Earl Netwal
Posted 02 Mar 2006 11:10 by Earl Netwal:
Our distate for the project was reflected
by a community arts mural painted on the back of the K-mart building that
depicted a battleship training its guns on the neighborhood.
ML:
I pass the mural nearly every day. It's very appropriate. How did that
particular scene ever get approved? Did K-mart not yet have the creative eye
of Martha Stewart on board? Let's reopen Nicollet and let's get some more
murals for other structures depicting community impact. I could think of a few
scenes for Interstates 35 and 94.
Matty Lang,
Central
Matty Lang <email obscured>> wrote:
Posted 02 Mar 2006 11:10 by Earl Netwal:
Our distate for the project was reflected
by a community arts mural painted on the back of the K-mart building that
depicted a battleship training its guns on the neighborhood.
ML:
I pass the mural nearly every day. It's very appropriate. How did that
particular scene ever get approved? Did K-mart not yet have the creative eye
of Martha Stewart on board? Let's reopen Nicollet and let's get some more
murals for other structures depicting community impact. I could think of a few
scenes for Interstates 35 and 94.
Matty Lang,
Agreeing here with that and with Mr. Fermans's recollection of Nicollet
Park back in the day. Surely we could have a depiction of that beautiful
neighborhood fixture on a mural. Wasn't there something somewhat like that on
the old President's Cafe on thirty first?
Appparently not old enough,
Jon Gorder
Cathedral Hill
( all previous homes in Minneapolis)
Thank you Jon, you brought back fond memories.
The Vice-President was on the corner of 31st and Nicollet. The President
was mid-block between 31st and Lake. I had a nice (to me) mural painted on
the 31st Street side of the Karate Center I managed. A bunch of the Black
Belts lived up stairs above the "Center". Of course it only lasted a few
years until the building was torn down.
The President had good food and was a wild bar at night. I have good
memories of it both during the day with the food and at night with the wild.
The Vice-President was a cool old timers 3.2 joint with the walls covered
with weird collectables. It was a good place to have beer over ice to cool
down and re-hydrate after working out for a few hours at the Karate Center.
We should also not forget the La Pizzeria. We called it the La Diarrhea,
but it had the best garbage pizza in this town, bar none. What a great time,
I could eat one of those ten thousand calorie large garbage pizzas all by
myself and not gain any weight. Of course that could be because I worked out
all day and danced all night. A young guy named Harry Hyde worked there and
made that great pizza. Harry went on to own Champions, but it was not the
same as the La Pizzeria and the President. Of course that could be because I
became older to.
I am still absolutely amazed by the incredible cost to the City of that
boondoggle. It, and the destruction to Minneapolis and St.Paul by I-94,
started me on my way to having less than good opinion of the planning minds
of "Aldermen" and City Planners. That opinion has occasionally been wrong,
but it is the exceptions that are exceptional, the rest mediocre or a lot
worse. Much of the destruction of that great City, that Rt Rybak and I
remember, came because of elected officials and City Planners who wanted to
make Minneapolis a "Modern" suburb. I hope RT's plan works, and neighborhood
planning can again bring back that "Great City". Neighborhood residents and
business-people never planned the Nicollet closing in our City, and things
like Cabrini Green in Chicago. Those things took "Professional" planning!
Side note on the political history of the time, since Mr. Netwall brought it
up. Earl Netwal tells us he fought against that Nicolett Avenue crime but
was unsuccessful. This is amazing to me, because at the time "Ward
Privilege" was almost a law of the City. Earl must have indeed been a weak
Alderman to have actively fought that and lost. Of course Earl was fairly
out of touch with the communities, so perhaps did not have the ability to
successfully mobilize them. Earl had come in on that McGovern mobilization I
talked about. He defeated the Republican Jens Christianson, and was gone
soon after to be replaced by Jackie Slater - the Nun Council Member. Gives
one an idea of the quality of leadership for the Sixth Ward at the time when
Jackie was the most effective and in touch of the three.
Earl should probably let that old dog lie, cause it won't hunt and brings
back memories of the quality of his service as an elected official. I am
sure he has become better qualified to run for another office than he was
back then. Though it might demonstrate the quality of judgment of when inept
handling of that issue is brought up. Even if you were on the correct side!
I always blamed Jens for the policies that resulted in the closing of
Nicollet, but perhaps his active support for the issue was less effective in
that closing than the ineffective opposition that came later.
By the way, this has been fun. It shows the value of the "List" to bring
back those memories and keep us aware of the living history of our City.
Who knows it might also keep us from just a few of those terrible mistakes,
such as the Nicollet Avenue closing.
Jim Graham,
Ventura Village
Wise sayings from two wise men a couple of thousand years apart:
Jim, Aldermanic courtesy doesn't trump a $ million dollar hole in the
general fund. And as a point of fact, that portion of Nicollet was in the
tenth ward and not the Sixth. Further you are completely off base on the
idea of aldermanic courtesy. It did exist, for things that were solely of
local impact within a ward. It never applied when an issue had greater
reach. That you blamed Jens for the issue, shows that you have at best a
faulty memory of events. Jens was no where near the K-mart and street
closing decision, although he was on the council that cleared the land
before a development deal was in hand. As for being out of touch with
communities, prior to my service there was no Whittier Alliance, there was
no Stevens Square neighborhood organization. It was with my direct and
active support that these organizations came into being. Earl Netwal
Jim Graham writes: Excerpted..
Earl Netwal tells us he fought against that Nicolett Avenue crime but was
unsuccessful. This is amazing to me, because at the time "Ward Privilege"
was almost a law of the City. Earl must have indeed been a weak Alderman to
have actively fought that and lost. Of course Earl was fairly out of touch
with the communities, so perhaps did not have the ability to successfully
mobilize them. Earl had come in on that McGovern mobilization I talked
about. He defeated the Republican Jens Christianson, and was gone soon
after to be replaced by Jackie Slater - the Nun Council Member. Gives one
an idea of the quality of leadership for the Sixth Ward at the time when
Jackie was the most effective and in touch of the three.
.....
I always blamed Jens for the policies that resulted in the closing of
Nicollet, but perhaps his active support for the issue was less effective in
that closing than the ineffective opposition that came later.
Jim Graham,
Ventura Village
I just returned from Florida where thoughtful planning seems to be totally in
the control of the developers.
I am thrilled to see the posts about re-opening Nicollet at Lake street. This
has been a documented and established goal of the Whittier neighborhood since I
moved here in 1991. I suspect it's been a goal of those living here longer than
me since the day it was closed.
Whittier worked hard to revitalize the commercial corridor of Nicollet after
the continuing blight that occurred after the closing of Nicollet in the 70's.
We did a great job right up to 28th street and on the east side of Nicollet up
to Cecil Neuman. Then we hit the ugly bridge, the big cement wall of K-Mart and
the blighting influence of the delivery corridor of asphalt that runs along the
building. This isn't unlike the ugliness of the area behind the Hi-Lake
shopping area. The difference there is that no major thoroughfare was
interrupted. There isn't a way to "pretty that up". No matter what we tried it
would just be putting earings on a pig.
Re-opening Nicollet and turning K-Mart sideways with a thoughtful design
would be a huge catalyst to revitalizing the whole corridor between 28th St to
38th St. It would provide a way to add new commerce opportunities, a
significant number of new housing units in a variety of options, and create a
fabulous "green" and "community gathering" focus on the Midtown Greenway at
that intersection. I can only salivate at the possibilities.
Just as importantly, it allows the addition of more commercial options and
reconnects us to our neighbors south of Lake on Nicollet. The strip mall, while
thriving, that was built on Nicollet and Lake on the SE corner was unfortunate
but arose from the failure of the housing development project originally
planned for that corner. It would be nice to believe that a reconfiguration of
that shopping area could also emerge as part of this redevelopment. Honestly,
it's current configuration is such a waste of space on that block.
I am encouraged that this area is once again on the political radar. It was
on the political radar before under former Mayor Sharon Sayles Belton and
Councilmember Jim Niland and when the investment in infrastructure from the
city would have been far less then it will be in today's numbers. I think this
area was competing with downtown development at that time and it lost. Perhaps
now with Robert Lilligren, Ralph Remington and Elizabeth Glidden working with
R.T. on this area it might actually happen.
One of the major positives that exists now that hasn't existed in the past
was the sale of Goldberger Foods at 28th and Nicollet. Being able to convert
that block into a completely different use makes the redevelopment of Nicollet
and Lake a completely different project with endless options. The other
positive that exists is that private developers are "chomping at the bit" to
throw their own money into redeveloping this area instead of approaching the
city with its hand out wanting big subsidies. I think the investment of city
money in a new Nicollet at Lake project will be to pay for the infrastructure
costs as it should be.
Whatever happens here, the next few years will be exciting and my sense is
everyone is going to have some interesting ideas. I agree with Jim Graham. I
believe the best plan will emerge from the neighborhood folks who live around
this area day to day.
Barb Lickness
Whittier
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
Ok,
So everyone that is posting has decided that this is a good idea, opening
Nicollet. I also agree that opening Nicollet should be the priority for that
area.
However since many people are against emminent domain and they don't want to
give public money to rich people, how do we go about reclaiming the public
right of way on that street? How does Minneapolis force KMart out? Its not
going to be pretty.
Jared Chester
Nokomis East
I do not believe it is a matter of forcing K-Mart out rather, it is a matter
of trying to convince them to move to one side of the street.
This is a good point. I never understood why K-mart was sitting splat in the
middle of Niccolet. It makes no sense.
But how exactly would this work. Does Kmart agree with this. This K-mart has
done advertising business with us in the past and I remember hearing from them
that this store is one of the most profitable Kmarts. This while Kmart recently
merged with Sears because many thougt kmart might not make it on its own..
Do the officials of this city know anything we don't? Is Kmart going to
willingly open Nicollet ave? Is this legal to force them if they don't want to
move?
I just want to understand from those in the list that know more about this than
I do.
Alberto Monserrate
Sent with Wireless Sync from Verizon Wireless
Has anyone else heard that the owner of the building has no interest in opening
it up, while KMart (the Tenant?) would want to be a part of any reopening?
As for emminent domain... if used, probably the fairest thing to do would be to
get Nicollet opened up and rebuild KMart /Supervalu on one side. I'd much
rather see a willing redevelopment of both properties and perhaps the car wash
on the north side. One can imagine what sort of improved outcome can happen.
And I don't see it as having to remove KMart from the future, rather, finding a
creative way to provide both the city, KMart, and potential other users with a
facility (or facilities) that meet their various needs.
Lots of good questions. Yes, K-Mart and the person who owns the land under
their building would have to be a willing participant. It's a complex deal to
configure. Those of us who have worked on a possible development project for
this area in the past think that a newly constructed K-Mart turned sideways can
be built without interuption to business in the current store. That is a big
plus in making this deal happen.
Is K-Mart a willing partner in this project? I only know that Council member
Lilligren is using his vast talents to show them the benefits of such a
partnership. I am quite sure he is working closely with Ralph Remington,
Elizabeth Glidden and R.T. on this issue. Robert is very savvy. As a private
developer himself he has the skills and expertise to make this happen. If
anyone can get this deal done it will be Robert. He did work hard to make the
Midtown Exchange project happen. I am confident he will do the same for us at
Nicollet and Lake.
K-Mart is not going to pay to re-open Nicollet. The city and or county or
both will have to pay for that.
Time will tell on all of this. I am cautiously optimistic that re-opening
Nicollet may actually happen this time.
Barb Lickness
Whittier
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
On Mar 8, 2006, at 7:17 AM, Thatcher Imboden wrote: > > > As for emminent domain... if used, probably the fairest thing to do > would be to get Nicollet opened up and rebuild KMart /Supervalu on > one side. I'd much rather see a willing redevelopment of both > properties and perhaps the car wash on the north side. One can > imagine what sort of improved outcome can happen. And I don't see > it as having to remove KMart from the future, rather, finding a > creative way to provide both the city, KMart, and potential other > users with a facility (or facilities) that meet their various needs. > Thatcher Imboden > Uptown (CARAG), Minneapolis > More info: http://forums.e-democracy.org/minneapolis/contacts/ > thatcherimboden > As for redevelopment, I would stump for green space, maybe a pavilion where neighbors can come and entertain each other with their many talents. John Ferman Kingfield, Minneapolis <email obscured>
As for redevelopment, I would stump for green space, maybe a pavilion
where neighbors can come and entertain each other with their many
talents.
John Ferman
Kingfield, Minneapolis
A Central Green surrounded by a traffic roundabout with a bridged
streetcar line cut through it's diameter. A fine seque between the residential
Southside and the perimeters of downtown. I'll second that one.
Jon Gorder
Cathedral Hill
I just couldn't resist. This morning, I recorded some images of the mural painted on the backside of the Kmart building that cuts off Nicollet Avenue on the Southside. There are thirteen images that together make a whole. View them number 1 through 13. Imagine them being a whole image spanning the length of the building (it is, after all, a big box in the middle of the city) from the East side to the West. Sometimes a mural can tell the whole story. Follow this link: http://forums.e-democracy.org/minneapolis/groups/mpls/files/Nicollet_Avenue_Kmart_Mural/view_files Matty Lang, Central
It's been brought to my attention that the images of the K-mart mural I posted are rather large and not pleasantly accessible without a broadband connection. My apologies. A forum member was kind enough to post the images on his flickr account. People can view them as a flickr stream or slide show. Here's the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wikitainment/sets/72057594079151862/show/ Matty Lang, Central Correction: In an earlier post, I meant to write that my one-wheel drive bicycle worked just fine today. I don't have a two-wheel drive bicycle.
Since the K-mart store on (literally) Nicollet Avenue gets in my way most every
day I decided to make a short video about it for the benefit of those who are
not as intimate with the K-Mart as I:
It serves a couple of purposes:
1. A demonstration of what happens to what happens to the traveler heading
south on Nicollet Avenue.
2. A demonstration of the results of suburban style auto-oriented land use in
the heart of Minneapolis.
Feel free to use this for educational purposes in your daily land use and
transportation travails. (It's less than two minutes.)
Matty Lang,
Central
I don't want to rain on everyone's parade; and, indeed, I would like to
see Nicollet reopened. However, the mayor has made a career of poor
mouthing and budget cutting. We don't have money for cops, CCP/SAFE,
firefighters, potholes, etc. So where is the money coming from to
reopen Nicollet?
You've got about 30 acres of land that bookends "Eat Street" (jeez, I hate that
name) on the south, is a hop, skip and a jump from downtown, is on the greenway
and has in the middle of it the intersection of two of the most important
streets in the city. Getting developers interested in that only requires
getting lots of people (with a little money) interested in that. If the city
and the neighbourhoods can come up with a plan...
And yes it will cost money. But unlike potholes and firefighters, there will be
some return on this. I just don't know when...
Given the projections for population growth in the Cities over the next 10 or
20 years, there will certainly be enough people, but it's tough to sell a
'suburb in the city' when there is so much cheap (subsidized) suburb out there.
Minnepolis needs to stop being ashamed of what it is. We're a city, and we
should act like it. Rip down the strip malls and put in neighbourhoods. Give us
back our street! (Streetcars would be lovely, too.)
Then we can move on to dealing with that freeway. (What were they thinking!?)
Xan Cassiel
300 ft above the West Bank
I just recently left a high school located at the corner of Nicollet and 24th.
I know the area very well, and know how Whittier has survived abandonment from
I-94 and the K-Mart.
Re-opening Nicollet would give the Avenue its fomer glory as one of the longest
uninterrupted through streets in the city, it would likely ease stress on
Lyndale, and it would complete a 3-set of major Lake street intersections along
with Hennepin and Lyndale.
But what would happen to the area once the streets were snapped back to the
orignial grid? Would they try the newest Uptown intersection (like
Hennepin&Lake and LynLake, all at once, in some false CondoCondo RetailRetail
BlockE esque development?
I agree the street needs to reconnect. But I have an ominous feeling the
powers that be will try to re-create Uptown on Nicollet like a grow your own
rock. Good neighborhoods take lots of time, especially damaged ones. Lets hope
Somebody within the City has the sense to not play God with that intersection.
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