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There are 9 posts — by 8 authors — in this topic.
Latest post made by David Strand at 2007 Jul 18 05:29 UTC

From: Mark Fox Date: 2007 Jul 15 19:26 UTC Short link

The BBC reports that Paris has enacted a bike-sharing program:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6899082.stm

Bikes are kept in locked racks around the city. Users swipe a card to free a
cycle and are allowed to drop it off at any other rack. The cost for a day's
use is pegged at $1.38. Perhaps the Minneapolis parking card could be extended
to enable a similar program? Or the Met Council could tie this in with transit
passes?

From the article, however:
"It relies on a wrong idea, the idea that you can change a car for a bicycle.
But it's not the case. These are two different problems. Bicycles will just be
very useful for those people going to do some shopping or visiting friends, not
far from home, but most of the time, when you use the car, it's for a long trip
so that's the reason why it will not solve at all the traffic problem in
Paris."

Paging Matty Lang...

Mark Fox
7

From: Matty Lang Date: 2007 Jul 16 19:46 UTC Short link

I’m very flattered to be engaged with such literary skill, but I must point out
that Mr. Fox fails to attribute his quote to its source, Christian Gerondeau,
the president of the French federation of auto clubs.  Gerondeau repeats the
misnomer that most automobile trips are for long trips and that bicycle
advocates aim to replace all car trips with bicycle trips.  What else could one
reasonably expect from the president of the French federation of auto clubs?

Here’s a link to a Washington Post story that does not reply on the automobile
lobby for its quotes and tells the Paris story in a much more complete fashion:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/15/AR2007071501461.html

If anyone cares about how the private automobile is used in Minneapolis I
suggest you browse the 2003 Share the Road report put together by Transit for
Livable Communities:

http://www.tlcminnesota.org/Resources/Reports/SharingtheRoad/Sharing_the_Road.pdf

(2.0 MB PDF file)

From page six of the report:

“We could easily walk or bike more: Forty percent of the trips we make are less
than two miles, and 28 percent are less than one mile; yet 75 percent of trips
of less than one mile are made by car.”

The Parisian program is called Velib, a combination of the words vélo (bike)
and liberté (liberty). I would hope that Mr. Fox and Mr. Gerondeau could
appreciate the liberating experience that is the bicycle, but it’s becoming
evident that the life of a Cager leads to extreme defensiveness and
self-legitimization.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cager

“Cager is also used by motorcyclists and bicyclists to describe a person who
drives a car. Similarly, cars themselves are described as "cages". The term is
derived from the common feeling among motorcyclists that driving or riding in a
car feels like being trapped in a cage, as well as alluding to the safety cages
in modern cars, and to a certain extent the locked-in mindset of "cagers" who
refuse to acknowledge the practicality of other modes of transport.”

Matty Lang,
Cage-free and feeling practically liberated by the bicycle in Midtown Phillips

From: Anonymous User Date: 2007 Jul 16 20:47 UTC Short link

At 02:48 PM 7/16/2007, Matty Lang wrote:
>The Parisian program is called Velib,


There are a number of good points to pick up here:    I think the
most important is the charge system.

1) Paris has tied the bike plan to their Metro-Pass plan,
apparently.  It looks like you use the Cart Orange to charge
out.  This is a cousin to our bus pass, and involves one permanent ID
card with weekly (could be monthly) passes.  I assume that instead of
getting a gold weekly or one trip purple, one will be able to
purchase a different color bike pass.  The technology is there for
Minneapolis to pick up and use.

2) Multiple pick up and return is fine.  It would be interesting to
see where the bikes migrate and how weather affects that.  In
Minneapolis, I assume that a late day snow or rainfall would leave a
lot of bikes downtown.

3) Paris traffic laws are strongly pro-pedestrian.  I"m not sure
where bikes fit on the roads there but I think Minneapolis bikers
would have a better time of it.  In Paris, all bets are off on the
traffic circles.  We don't have anything that dangerous in
Minneapolis.  There are no bike routes that I know of in Paris so we
win there.

I'd be a LOT more interested in an observation from the people who
plan the public transit system in Paris.  Also, the change in rider
stats for those services over time.-- like two years of observation

From: kevin reich Date: 2007 Jul 16 22:56 UTC Short link

I really liked using the "CityBikes" system in Copenhagen.

It seems that after a decade the program is growing and being replicatd in
other cities.

"...Stands stocked with City Bikes are concentrated around train and subway
stations, parking lots and large housing blocks. They are also placed around
common final destinations, such as office buildings, shopping districts, parks
and other tourist attractions. The aim is to have them so widely distributed
that a Free City Bike is almost always available whenever it is needed."

I believe there are 3,000 available.   You put in a $3 coin and ride it as long
as you want, wherever.  You bring it back to any CityBikes stand and you get
your coin back.  If you don't, someone else will.

They are uniquely designed bikes with wild colors - sort of the bowling shoe
approach - advertisments on them bring in revenue and they are repaired by by
people who enter a rehab to jobs program (80% program participants get jobs
once out).

Kevin Reich
Windom Park

From: Mark Fox Date: 2007 Jul 17 21:23 UTC Short link

Minneapolis is more friendly (safer) for cyclists, for sure. I suggest that is
due, in small part at least, to our lower density and concurrently lower auto
traffic density.

More people means higher demand for everything: auto travel, communal transit,
bikes. At some high density, the auto loses a bit of its comparative advantage
for many trips.

Perhaps bike zealots and communal transit advocates might more effectively use
their time working to attract people to high-density development rather than
name-calling. If Minneapolis grows to a population of 750,000 or 1M I'm certain
more people will cycle more often.

I see no evidence that cycle schemes (however innovative or colorful they may
be) are a catalyst or magnet for a meaningful increase in population. Safe
neighborhoods and good schools are more fundamentally important to increasing
bike use.

Good Luck!

Mark Fox
Audubon Park, NE

From: David Brauer Date: 2007 Jul 17 22:48 UTC Short link

Mark writes:

Perhaps bike zealots and communal transit advocates might more effectively use
their time working to attract people to high-density development rather than
name-calling. If Minneapolis grows to a population of 750,000 or 1M I'm certain
more people will cycle more often.

Me:

Perhaps the name-calling point would be better made if one doesn't dismiss
people as zealots in the very same sentence. Modeling good behavior is a key
step to positive action on behalf of our city.

From: Christy Nicklas Date: 2007 Jul 17 23:41 UTC Short link

There are now 200 miles of bike paths in Paris; I was just reading an
article in the NYT recently which mentioned that the country has really been
working on expanding their bike trails over the past decade.  For
comparison,  Minneapolis has some 80 miles of bike lanes and 50? of
off-street bike paths, and Minneapolis, in square-foot terms, is about twice
the size of Paris if I'm not mistaken, which I could be.

If you're feeling exceptionally francophonic today, there are Paris bike
links from the following English web site:
http://www.v1.paris.fr/en/Living/cycle_tracks/default.ASP











On 7/16/07, Emilie Quast <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> At 02:48 PM 7/16/2007, Matty Lang wrote:
> >The Parisian program is called Velib,
>
>
> There are a number of good points to pick up here:    I think the
> most important is the charge system.
>
> 1) Paris has tied the bike plan to their Metro-Pass plan,
> apparently.  It looks like you use the Cart Orange to charge
> out.  This is a cousin to our bus pass, and involves one permanent ID
> card with weekly (could be monthly) passes.  I assume that instead of
> getting a gold weekly or one trip purple, one will be able to
> purchase a different color bike pass.  The technology is there for
> Minneapolis to pick up and use.
>
> 2) Multiple pick up and return is fine.  It would be interesting to
> see where the bikes migrate and how weather affects that.  In
> Minneapolis, I assume that a late day snow or rainfall would leave a
> lot of bikes downtown.
>
> 3) Paris traffic laws are strongly pro-pedestrian.  I"m not sure
> where bikes fit on the roads there but I think Minneapolis bikers
> would have a better time of it.  In Paris, all bets are off on the
> traffic circles.  We don't have anything that dangerous in
> Minneapolis.  There are no bike routes that I know of in Paris so we
> win there.
>
> I'd be a LOT more interested in an observation from the people who
> plan the public transit system in Paris.  Also, the change in rider
> stats for those services over time.-- like two years of observation
>
>
> Emilie Quast
> SE Como, Minneapolis
> Info about Emilie Quast: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/emiliequast
>
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6jZXGdqAlIV7hdUp1Q1KmG
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From: Steve Kotvis Date: 2007 Jul 18 01:38 UTC Short link

Paris is 41 square miles (Source:
www.planetware.com/france/paris-f-p-paris.htm)

Minneapolis is 54.9 square miles (Source:
www.answers.com/topic/minneapolis-minnesota?cat=travel)

________________________
Steve Kotvis

elemenoP
strategic marketing & advertising
www.elemenoP.us
cell 612.385.6407


> From: Christy Nicklas <<email obscured>>
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:41:22 -0500
> To: Minneapolis Issues Forum <<email obscured>>
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Shared Bike Scheme
>
> There are now 200 miles of bike paths in Paris; I was just reading an
> article in the NYT recently which mentioned that the country has really been
> working on expanding their bike trails over the past decade.  For
> comparison,  Minneapolis has some 80 miles of bike lanes and 50? of
> off-street bike paths, and Minneapolis, in square-foot terms, is about twice
> the size of Paris if I'm not mistaken, which I could be.
>
> If you're feeling exceptionally francophonic today, there are Paris bike
> links from the following English web site:
> http://www.v1.paris.fr/en/Living/cycle_tracks/default.ASP
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/16/07, Emilie Quast <<email obscured>> wrote:
>>
>> At 02:48 PM 7/16/2007, Matty Lang wrote:
>>> The Parisian program is called Velib,
>>
>>
>> There are a number of good points to pick up here:    I think the
>> most important is the charge system.
>>
>> 1) Paris has tied the bike plan to their Metro-Pass plan,
>> apparently.  It looks like you use the Cart Orange to charge
>> out.  This is a cousin to our bus pass, and involves one permanent ID
>> card with weekly (could be monthly) passes.  I assume that instead of
>> getting a gold weekly or one trip purple, one will be able to
>> purchase a different color bike pass.  The technology is there for
>> Minneapolis to pick up and use.
>>
>> 2) Multiple pick up and return is fine.  It would be interesting to
>> see where the bikes migrate and how weather affects that.  In
>> Minneapolis, I assume that a late day snow or rainfall would leave a
>> lot of bikes downtown.
>>
>> 3) Paris traffic laws are strongly pro-pedestrian.  I"m not sure
>> where bikes fit on the roads there but I think Minneapolis bikers
>> would have a better time of it.  In Paris, all bets are off on the
>> traffic circles.  We don't have anything that dangerous in
>> Minneapolis.  There are no bike routes that I know of in Paris so we
>> win there.
>>
>> I'd be a LOT more interested in an observation from the people who
>> plan the public transit system in Paris.  Also, the change in rider
>> stats for those services over time.-- like two years of observation
>>
>>
>> Emilie Quast
>> SE Como, Minneapolis
>> Info about Emilie Quast: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/emiliequast
>>
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6jZXGdqAlIV7hdUp1Q1KmG
>> -----------------------------------------
>>   To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>>   To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>>   in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>>
>>   More info about Minneapolis Issues Forum:
>>   http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
>>
>>   E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
>>    If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
>>    <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.
>>
>> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>>
>
> Christy Nicklas
> East Nokomis, Minneapolis
> Info about Christy Nicklas:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/christynicklas
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Z2WXIHn6jfL5QUwSRTM08
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> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
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>  1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
>    If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
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> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.

From: David Strand Date: 2007 Jul 18 05:29 UTC Short link

Since Minneapolis' sustainability goals include increasing the percentage of
travelers into downtown coming by public transit, by bike and by walking this
type of program seems a no brainer towards those ends.

Also, if technology can be used similiar to that of the metro pass with a swipe
card of some kind, it would also be useful to increase bus ridership into
downtown by facilitating bike riding to and from suburban transit stations and
locations in the suburbs for those reverse commuting as well as help and
encourage people to use bicycles to get around within suburban communities.
Doing the program together with willing suburban communities would allow costs
for the system to be shared across more communities or under the metro council
and also be more likely to pull in state funding by spreading the benefits.

David Strand
Plymouth

----- Original Message ----
From: Emilie Quast <<email obscured>>

1) Paris has tied the bike plan to their Metro-Pass plan,
apparently.  It looks like you use the Cart Orange to charge
out.  This is a cousin to our bus pass, and involves one permanent ID
card with weekly (could be monthly) passes.  I assume that instead of
getting a gold weekly or one trip purple, one will be able to
purchase a different color bike pass.  The technology is there for
Minneapolis to pick up and use.

2) Multiple pick up and return is fine.  It would be interesting to
see where the bikes migrate and how weather affects that.  In
Minneapolis, I assume that a late day snow or rainfall would leave a
lot of bikes downtown.

3) Paris traffic laws are strongly pro-pedestrian.  I"m not sure
where bikes fit on the roads there but I think Minneapolis bikers
would have a better time of it.  In Paris, all bets are off on the
traffic circles.  We don't have anything that dangerous in
Minneapolis.  There are no bike routes that I know of in Paris so we
win there.

I'd be a LOT more interested in an observation from the people who
plan the public transit system in Paris.  Also, the change in rider
stats for those services over time.-- like two years of observation


Emilie Quast
SE Como, Minneapolis
Info about Emilie Quast: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/emiliequast

This topic's messages may be viewed at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6jZXGdqAlIV7hdUp1Q1KmG
-----------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------
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1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
   If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
   <email obscured> before continuing it on the list.

2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.



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