How about as a "compromise" we ask the Park Board to turn the Minneapolis golf
course in St. Louis Park into a swamp, or the Minneapolis golf course in Golden
Valley into a swamp, or the Minneapolis golf course in St. Anthony (almost in
St. Paul) into a swamp and we leave the inner-city golf course in South
Minneapolis alone?
Ed Felien
Don't miss an issue. Subscribe to Southside Pride
here<https://southsidepride.com/about/subscribe/>.
course in St. Louis Park into a swamp, or the Minneapolis golf course in Golden
Valley into a swamp, or the Minneapolis golf course in St. Anthony (almost in
St. Paul) into a swamp and we leave the inner-city golf course in South
Minneapolis alone?
Ed Felien
Don't miss an issue. Subscribe to Southside Pride
here<https://southsidepride.com/about/subscribe/>.
________________________________
From: Nicole Christine <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 6:03 PM
To: Ed Felien <<email obscured>>;
<email obscured> <<email obscured>>
Cc: <email obscured> <<email obscured>>; <email obscured>
<<email obscured>>; Sheldon Gitis <<email obscured>>; forum
<mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] [Mpls] Reject the Plan
To each their own, I suppose.
I prefer wetlands that we can walk through with our kiddos to having the 9
extra holes that we'd have to pay to share with only a few people at a time.
Golf courses take up a lot of space for one activity. The wetlands design
offers the option for lots of people to use in multiple ways (walking, biking,
skating, canoeing, kayaking, observing wildlife, just relaxing on a bench,
fishing, or picnicking, gathering with friends or family (especially during a
pandemic) ... lots of things my family and neighborhood friends with young
families are excited to do in the new design.
The best part is that it's a compromise. There will still be a nine hole golf
course. I would like if it were gone altogether ... But they're keeping nine
holes. Compromise is the heart of this plan.
Our opinions are different. And that's ok. Most people disagree about things
like this. Not everyone's opinions can be incorporated one hundred percent.
Hence ... compromise.
Honoring history is important. Just like honoring the history of the lake
before the golf course, and the people from which the name comes from. The
history of Native American people and African American people alike are to be
honored with art, and placques educating people visiting about the important
histories that have happened at, the once, Rice Lake (Named because of the wild
rice that once grew there).
I hope my kids will be here in 75 years and have an amazing city park, with a
clean lake and natural wetlands to visit with their kids and grandkids. And I
hope that when their kids move into their own homes in the neighborhood, that
our kids will feel proud to compromise and help reshape the park for what those
future generations want for their families.
Thanks for reading y'all!
On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 8:17 PM Ed Felien
<<email obscured><mailto:edfelien@southsidepride.com>> wrote:
Hiawatha Golf Course is the only golf course that serves the inner city in
South Minneapolis. R T Rybak and his Loppeteers want to spend $42 million
(that we don't have) to turn it into a swamp in the summer and a wonderland for
skiing with an artificial snow making machine in the winter. Stefanie Musich
is the District 5 Park Board Commissioner carrying water for this Plan.
Charles Rodgers is opposing her for DFL endorsement:
https://southsidepride.com/2021/04/05/charles-rodgers-is-running-for-park-board/
He is vigorously supported by the African American community in South
Minneapolis. We will be publishing the following editorial by Harry Davis, Jr.
in our May editions:
To the community:
by Harry W. Davis, Jr.
As a golfer at Hiawatha for the last 20 years, and a native Minneapolis
resident for 75 years, I have followed the plan for the future of our beloved
Hiawatha Golf Course.
I have a family legacy in Minnesota of 153 years, and I have a very special
interest in maintaining an 18-hole course at Hiawatha for our community. Our
inner-city youth would have little opportunity to play golf, except at
Hiawatha, because of cost and availability.
I also have had the pleasure of using the golf course from my youth going back
go 1957 when I was 11 years old and had the opportunity to meet Joe Louis the
legendary Boxing Champion of the World who made an appearance at Hiawatha for
young people, and showed us the art of the game, along with various golf shots.
What a wonderful experience for us young boys at that time.
Hiawatha is not only a golf course, it's an institution of history for our
African American community. Maintaining the course to serve our community is
very important.
I have played in a league every Tuesday at Hiawatha for the last 20 years in a
group with a total membership of 52 African American men. The friendship,
camaraderie and fellowship we have is an example of the community spirit
Hiawatha has provided to our group, not only for playing golf but for a
community of togetherness and point of pride in South Minneapolis.
Mr. Charles Rodgers is a candidate for District 5 Park Board Commissioner.
Charles is a strong community advocate for our parks. His leadership is needed
to work with all of the community for maintaining a strong partnership with
home owners, businesses, schools and young people.
I endorse Charles, and I know his leadership will provide District 5 a future
of keeping our parks strong and maintaining a point of pride and beauty for our
community.
Ed Felien
Don't miss an issue. Subscribe to Southside Pride
here<https://southsidepride.com/about/subscribe/>.
________________________________
From: Minneapolis Issues Forum
<mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>> on behalf of
Carin Peterson <<email obscured><mailto:carpete61@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 12:36 PM
To: <email obscured><mailto:sean@smartwire.net>
<<email obscured><mailto:sean@smartwire.net>>
Cc: Sheldon Gitis <<email obscured><mailto:sheldongitis@gmail.com>>;
forum <mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>>
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Reject the Plan
While I agree with the premise that the loss of one golf course will not
cause the sky to fall.
But shouldn't we be thinking beyond the x's&o's here?
Are we not supposed to approach each issue facing the city thru the lens of
diversity?
Of outreach and support to underrepresented (bipoc) groups?
When this additional lens is applied ~ keeping THIS public course makes
sense.
And yes, most golfers TEND to be white.
If we want to maintain this demographic, by all means close the ONLY inner
city course that actually draws - intentional and proximal ~ a bipoc
population.
South High (VERY multicultural!), Roosevelt High (same) can each encourage
their students.
Theo Worth 9 or 18 holes... is a long way away for the transit challenged.
I'm not saying that I have the answers.
I am merely pointing out ~ THIS course caters to bipoc users.
MANY (most?) courses ~ are far less welcoming (assuming one can even get to
Brookfield!)
I have real concerns about this whole mess!
And we didn't even get to the flooding projections/solutions.
Oy!
Carin Peterson
Sheridan
On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 3:52 PM Shawne FitzGerald
<<email obscured><mailto:sean@smartwire.net>> wrote:
> β 1 file link β
>
> Sheldon,
>
> Thank you for reading my posts. The draft Hiawatha Golf plan was tabled
> and is likely to come back this month.
>
> I thought I had a year-by-year revenue chart for the golf course. No
> luck. Instead I found this in a 2017 consultant report to the MPRB:
>
> "The 20-year data record provided by the MPRB provides insight into the
> total costs and revenues for the operation of the Hiawatha Golf Course
> as well as the net revenue. The average annual net revenue for twenty
> year period is $120,000; however this includes the past 6 years which
> were impacted by wet conditions, flooding and recovery, resulting in a
> reduction in the number of holes available for play. The average net
> revenue for the golf course for the period prior to wet and flooded
> conditions was $250,000 per year, while the average net revenue for the
> 6 years impacted by the wet conditions was a loss of $180,000 per year."
>
> From the same report:
>
> "Because the Hiawatha Golf Course operates as an enterprise feature and
> generates revenue for the MPRB system, the goal for Alternative B was to
> identify a concept that would incorporate both the recreation types
> identified by the public and complementary enterprise features that
> would generate the same (or more) net revenue as the existing golf
> course."
>
> Alternative B was a proposal similar to the plan proposed today except
> it did not include a 9 hole golf course. The difference between golf
> and other pay-to-play/enterprise options is that golf is expected to be
> self-supporting - from paying for land and buildings to paying for
> operations - while pay-to-play is not. When Theodore Wirth was
> developing golf courses, he did so without requiring non-golfers to
> subsidize that recreation.
>
> The Park Board identified the neighborhoods "likely to be more frequent
> users of the site." See the attached maps. (BTW, in addition to the
> 4th Avenue corridor neighborhoods north of 46th and the Phillips
> community, the Midtown neighborhoods Bryant, Bancroft, Corcoran and
> Powderhorn had no seats on the CAC.) It looks incredibly biased to me.
>
> If the MPRB had neighborhood park budgets plus regional park budgets we
> could see per capita park expenditures by neighborhood. Wouldn't that
> be interesting!
>
> Shawne FitzGerald
> Powderhorn Park
>
> On 2021-03-02 11:27, Sheldon Gitis wrote:
>
> > Shawne,
> >
> > I think it's rather obvious that the costs of maintaining a man-made
> > golf course are enormous compared to the costs of maintaining a
> > naturally-occurring wetland.
> >
> > Also, your speculation that the golf course has been a money-maker for
> > the Park Board seems unfounded. How can you say "The MPRB lacks
> > budgets for individual parks" and then say "the Hiawatha golf course
> > has produced profits?"
> β 1 file β
>
> π Attachment-4421 Nokomis-Hiawatha Neighborhoods.pdf (399kb)
>
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/srUaJvPCRdhFWAvIcvKtZSqwOPh-1FTG-2QxRbfL/
>
>
>
> FitzGerald
> Southside, Minneapolis
> About/contact FitzGerald:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/shawnefitzgerald
>
>
> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> <email obscured><mailto:mpls-fm@e-democracy.org> before continuing
it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6XrHMDaMjSkNMsN7Ic7UvW
> New Topic: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Digest: Subject: digest on
> Leave: Subject: unsubscribe
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
Carin Peterson
Sheridan, MN
About/contact Carin Peterson: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/carinpeterson
1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
<email obscured><mailto:mpls-fm@e-democracy.org> before continuing it
on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
------------------------
Reply: Reply-All or visit
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6hGnHiBkXIHVzCSFTH61tA
New Topic: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
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Ed Felien
Powderhorn, Minneapolis
About/contact Ed Felien: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/edfelien
** Everyone welcome - Live, Work, Play in Standish Ericsson **
Invite people here: http://e-democracy.org/se
------------------------
Reply: Reply-All or visit
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7vu9DlH0c1ciKgImMHBcKl
New Topic:
<email obscured><mailto:mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org>
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From: Nicole Christine <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 6:03 PM
To: Ed Felien <<email obscured>>;
<email obscured> <<email obscured>>
Cc: <email obscured> <<email obscured>>; <email obscured>
<<email obscured>>; Sheldon Gitis <<email obscured>>; forum
<mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] [Mpls] Reject the Plan
To each their own, I suppose.
I prefer wetlands that we can walk through with our kiddos to having the 9
extra holes that we'd have to pay to share with only a few people at a time.
Golf courses take up a lot of space for one activity. The wetlands design
offers the option for lots of people to use in multiple ways (walking, biking,
skating, canoeing, kayaking, observing wildlife, just relaxing on a bench,
fishing, or picnicking, gathering with friends or family (especially during a
pandemic) ... lots of things my family and neighborhood friends with young
families are excited to do in the new design.
The best part is that it's a compromise. There will still be a nine hole golf
course. I would like if it were gone altogether ... But they're keeping nine
holes. Compromise is the heart of this plan.
Our opinions are different. And that's ok. Most people disagree about things
like this. Not everyone's opinions can be incorporated one hundred percent.
Hence ... compromise.
Honoring history is important. Just like honoring the history of the lake
before the golf course, and the people from which the name comes from. The
history of Native American people and African American people alike are to be
honored with art, and placques educating people visiting about the important
histories that have happened at, the once, Rice Lake (Named because of the wild
rice that once grew there).
I hope my kids will be here in 75 years and have an amazing city park, with a
clean lake and natural wetlands to visit with their kids and grandkids. And I
hope that when their kids move into their own homes in the neighborhood, that
our kids will feel proud to compromise and help reshape the park for what those
future generations want for their families.
Thanks for reading y'all!
On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 8:17 PM Ed Felien
<<email obscured><mailto:edfelien@southsidepride.com>> wrote:
Hiawatha Golf Course is the only golf course that serves the inner city in
South Minneapolis. R T Rybak and his Loppeteers want to spend $42 million
(that we don't have) to turn it into a swamp in the summer and a wonderland for
skiing with an artificial snow making machine in the winter. Stefanie Musich
is the District 5 Park Board Commissioner carrying water for this Plan.
Charles Rodgers is opposing her for DFL endorsement:
https://southsidepride.com/2021/04/05/charles-rodgers-is-running-for-park-board/
He is vigorously supported by the African American community in South
Minneapolis. We will be publishing the following editorial by Harry Davis, Jr.
in our May editions:
To the community:
by Harry W. Davis, Jr.
As a golfer at Hiawatha for the last 20 years, and a native Minneapolis
resident for 75 years, I have followed the plan for the future of our beloved
Hiawatha Golf Course.
I have a family legacy in Minnesota of 153 years, and I have a very special
interest in maintaining an 18-hole course at Hiawatha for our community. Our
inner-city youth would have little opportunity to play golf, except at
Hiawatha, because of cost and availability.
I also have had the pleasure of using the golf course from my youth going back
go 1957 when I was 11 years old and had the opportunity to meet Joe Louis the
legendary Boxing Champion of the World who made an appearance at Hiawatha for
young people, and showed us the art of the game, along with various golf shots.
What a wonderful experience for us young boys at that time.
Hiawatha is not only a golf course, it's an institution of history for our
African American community. Maintaining the course to serve our community is
very important.
I have played in a league every Tuesday at Hiawatha for the last 20 years in a
group with a total membership of 52 African American men. The friendship,
camaraderie and fellowship we have is an example of the community spirit
Hiawatha has provided to our group, not only for playing golf but for a
community of togetherness and point of pride in South Minneapolis.
Mr. Charles Rodgers is a candidate for District 5 Park Board Commissioner.
Charles is a strong community advocate for our parks. His leadership is needed
to work with all of the community for maintaining a strong partnership with
home owners, businesses, schools and young people.
I endorse Charles, and I know his leadership will provide District 5 a future
of keeping our parks strong and maintaining a point of pride and beauty for our
community.
Ed Felien
Don't miss an issue. Subscribe to Southside Pride
here<https://southsidepride.com/about/subscribe/>.
________________________________
From: Minneapolis Issues Forum
<mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>> on behalf of
Carin Peterson <<email obscured><mailto:carpete61@gmail.com>>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 12:36 PM
To: <email obscured><mailto:sean@smartwire.net>
<<email obscured><mailto:sean@smartwire.net>>
Cc: Sheldon Gitis <<email obscured><mailto:sheldongitis@gmail.com>>;
forum <mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>>
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Reject the Plan
While I agree with the premise that the loss of one golf course will not
cause the sky to fall.
But shouldn't we be thinking beyond the x's&o's here?
Are we not supposed to approach each issue facing the city thru the lens of
diversity?
Of outreach and support to underrepresented (bipoc) groups?
When this additional lens is applied ~ keeping THIS public course makes
sense.
And yes, most golfers TEND to be white.
If we want to maintain this demographic, by all means close the ONLY inner
city course that actually draws - intentional and proximal ~ a bipoc
population.
South High (VERY multicultural!), Roosevelt High (same) can each encourage
their students.
Theo Worth 9 or 18 holes... is a long way away for the transit challenged.
I'm not saying that I have the answers.
I am merely pointing out ~ THIS course caters to bipoc users.
MANY (most?) courses ~ are far less welcoming (assuming one can even get to
Brookfield!)
I have real concerns about this whole mess!
And we didn't even get to the flooding projections/solutions.
Oy!
Carin Peterson
Sheridan
On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 3:52 PM Shawne FitzGerald
<<email obscured><mailto:sean@smartwire.net>> wrote:
> β 1 file link β
>
> Sheldon,
>
> Thank you for reading my posts. The draft Hiawatha Golf plan was tabled
> and is likely to come back this month.
>
> I thought I had a year-by-year revenue chart for the golf course. No
> luck. Instead I found this in a 2017 consultant report to the MPRB:
>
> "The 20-year data record provided by the MPRB provides insight into the
> total costs and revenues for the operation of the Hiawatha Golf Course
> as well as the net revenue. The average annual net revenue for twenty
> year period is $120,000; however this includes the past 6 years which
> were impacted by wet conditions, flooding and recovery, resulting in a
> reduction in the number of holes available for play. The average net
> revenue for the golf course for the period prior to wet and flooded
> conditions was $250,000 per year, while the average net revenue for the
> 6 years impacted by the wet conditions was a loss of $180,000 per year."
>
> From the same report:
>
> "Because the Hiawatha Golf Course operates as an enterprise feature and
> generates revenue for the MPRB system, the goal for Alternative B was to
> identify a concept that would incorporate both the recreation types
> identified by the public and complementary enterprise features that
> would generate the same (or more) net revenue as the existing golf
> course."
>
> Alternative B was a proposal similar to the plan proposed today except
> it did not include a 9 hole golf course. The difference between golf
> and other pay-to-play/enterprise options is that golf is expected to be
> self-supporting - from paying for land and buildings to paying for
> operations - while pay-to-play is not. When Theodore Wirth was
> developing golf courses, he did so without requiring non-golfers to
> subsidize that recreation.
>
> The Park Board identified the neighborhoods "likely to be more frequent
> users of the site." See the attached maps. (BTW, in addition to the
> 4th Avenue corridor neighborhoods north of 46th and the Phillips
> community, the Midtown neighborhoods Bryant, Bancroft, Corcoran and
> Powderhorn had no seats on the CAC.) It looks incredibly biased to me.
>
> If the MPRB had neighborhood park budgets plus regional park budgets we
> could see per capita park expenditures by neighborhood. Wouldn't that
> be interesting!
>
> Shawne FitzGerald
> Powderhorn Park
>
> On 2021-03-02 11:27, Sheldon Gitis wrote:
>
> > Shawne,
> >
> > I think it's rather obvious that the costs of maintaining a man-made
> > golf course are enormous compared to the costs of maintaining a
> > naturally-occurring wetland.
> >
> > Also, your speculation that the golf course has been a money-maker for
> > the Park Board seems unfounded. How can you say "The MPRB lacks
> > budgets for individual parks" and then say "the Hiawatha golf course
> > has produced profits?"
> β 1 file β
>
> π Attachment-4421 Nokomis-Hiawatha Neighborhoods.pdf (399kb)
>
>
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/file/srUaJvPCRdhFWAvIcvKtZSqwOPh-1FTG-2QxRbfL/
>
>
>
> FitzGerald
> Southside, Minneapolis
> About/contact FitzGerald:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/shawnefitzgerald
>
>
> 1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
> If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
> <email obscured><mailto:mpls-fm@e-democracy.org> before continuing
it on the list.
>
> 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
>
>
> ------------------------
> Reply: Reply-All or visit
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6XrHMDaMjSkNMsN7Ic7UvW
> New Topic: mpls@forums.e-democracy.org<mailto:mpls@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Digest: Subject: digest on
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> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
>
>
>
>
> Help? http://e-democracy.org/support Hosting: http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
Carin Peterson
Sheridan, MN
About/contact Carin Peterson: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/carinpeterson
1. Be civil! Please read the rules at http://e-democracy.org/rules.
If you think a member is in violation, contact the forum manager at
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on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
------------------------
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Ed Felien
Powderhorn, Minneapolis
About/contact Ed Felien: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/edfelien
** Everyone welcome - Live, Work, Play in Standish Ericsson **
Invite people here: http://e-democracy.org/se
------------------------
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