All posts in the topic Interstate 35W bridge collapse over Mississippi River (Short link)
Summary
- There are 87 posts — by 52 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Charlie Swope at 2007 Aug 31 22:19 UTC
The I-35W over the Mississippi came down some time after 6 P.M. There
is nothing like television to see a disaster like this; according to
the reports, the bridge is only 30 years old. The River looks as
impassible as the freeway. Many injuries, probably deaths. I've not
seen anything like it save for earthquake damage in California.
from MPR's website
I-35 bridge collapses over Mississippi River in Minneapolis
August 1, 2007
St. Paul, Minn. — A bridge has collapsed on I-35 over the Mississippi River
this afternoon. Several cars have plunged into the water when the bridge near
University Avenue.
Video on WCCO TV showed flames and heavy smoke rising from the areas. Police
officers are carrying injured people from the scene. A witness said a busload
of children also plunged off the bridge, but the children escaped. At the time
of the collapse, two lanes in each direction were under construction.
REAL-TIME UPDATES
7:10 p.m. - The bridge, built in 1967, had both north and southbound lanes
inspected by the Minnesota Department of Transportation in 2004, according to
KSTP-TV.
6:50 p.m. - A witness was telling WCCO TV that the bridge started shaking and
then collapsed. At that point, the TV signal from the scene disappeared.
6:46 p.m. - MPR's Cathy Wurzer reports ambulances from Roseville, New Brighton
and other suburbs are on the scene. She reports a tractor-trailer truck is on
fire.
Don't know what more I can add, Nicky. There is one long span over
the river that is now in the river, along with all the cars and folks
in them at the tail end of tonight's rush hour. Boats are picking
folks up. There is a staging area both on the west side of the
freeway and below on the west bank and probably the east as well,
although I haven't seen it yet. Folks were trapped on land bound
sections of the bridge that were left standing by the river and spans
over the banks also came down. There were a few fires, although I
think most folks not in the river are being taken care of and helped
to safety.
There is some speculation about the cause, but they're talking about
some structural problems, cracking of girders, etc. and "diaphragms"
cited a year or so ago. It is all pretty overwhelming. I guess we'll
know a whole lot more tomorrow and in the days to come.
Here are some links that I've found, anyone have any more?
Google News Links About Collapse
Recent
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=35w&ie=UTF-8&scoring=n
Most Relevant
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=35w&ie=UTF-8
Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Bridge
Other Bridge Disasters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Bridge_disasters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_disasters
StarTribune Photo Gallery (I can't get back to these, because
I don't have a password)
http://www.startribune.com/10136/gallery/1338445.html
http://www.startribune.com/462/story/1338294-a1338438-t3.html
Flickr (Nothing here yet, but I expect there will be shortly)
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=35W+&s=rec
Flickr Geotagged Photos (Again, nothing yet)
http://www.flickr.com/map/?&fLat=44.976117&fLon=-93.23822&zl=5
Mpls Issues Forum WIKI Page
http://pages.e-democracy.org/35W
Mpls Issues Forum Discussion
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls/messages/
postsSummary.html?l=50
http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls
Tim Erickson
I am going to go ahead and ask the question: Did this happen because we didn't spend enough money on infrastructure? If that is the case, is it because we are too poor as a nation to support our infrastructure, or are we just spending our money on something else? By interesting coincidence, I have been writing recently about the relationship between huge amounts of money spent on endless wars and small amounts of money spent on infrastructure maintenance. One is called “The terrorist steam pipe,” found at http://www.mnblue.com/node/557 The other is called “The terrorist fungus,” found at http://www.mnblue.com/node/576 In the second blog, I specifically included the sentence, “When we weren’t looking, Al Qaeda took the money from our infrastructure, so that soon our bridges will collapse under our heavy S.U.V.s and our roads will fill with potholes.”
Len Levine, transportation commissioner under Rudy Perpich, just did an
enlightening interview on channel 9 about this very issue. He just came home
tonight from Washington DC, where he was having discussions with Rep. Oberstar
about our crumbling infrastructure. It's estimated that some 40% of bridges
throughout the U.S. are in need of structural repair.
As my rage is settling in, temporarily displacing the nausea over this event, I
also think about the way our state government continually screws Minneapolis.
Cities are not the enemy. Maybe it takes a tragedy like this to open peoples'
eyes about the need maintain what we have--bridges, roads, cops, firefighters.
I'll also add that all the help from area municipalities is so amazing. Thanks
to our suburban friends for that.
On Aug 1, 2007, at 9:36 PM, Charley Underwood wrote:
> I am going to go ahead and ask the question: Did this happen
> because we didn't spend enough money on infrastructure? If that is
> the case, is it because we are too poor as a nation to support our
> infrastructure, or are we just spending our money on something else?
>
A 40 year old interstate bridge (with a 70 year design life) should
not fall down. It's way too early to really assess what happened,
but I don't think that simple neglect of infrastructure is the whole
story, or even most of the story. There's gotta be a design,
materials, or construction component to this collapse.
IMHO.
As an aside, I have now gotten a fair number of e-mails from out of
state friends and relatives asking if I'm OK. One from Hobart,
Tasmania, the farthest away, and one from a cousin of mine in
Sacramento with whom I have not spoken in many years. This
Minneapolis bridge collapse is getting some serious national and
worldwide attention.
Greg Abbott
Fulton
Bill Kahn wrote:
> There is some speculation about the cause, but they're talking about
> some structural problems, cracking of girders, etc. and "diaphragms"
> cited a year or so ago. It is all pretty overwhelming. I guess we'll
> know a whole lot more tomorrow and in the days to come.
Ok, after viewing too many ignorant news reports, I'm really getting
sick of this.
Mn/DOT did a full inspection in 2006 and found no significant structural
issues. Was something missed? Perhaps. It's way too soon to say
anything about what might have happened. We all want to speculate
because we want answers and not having answers is scary. But it does
no good to point fingers with zero information.
Concrete rehabilitation is extremely unlikely to have caused this.
"Holes in the surface" won't cause a bridge to collapse. How long
has the Old Cedar Ave. bridge had holes in its primary support
girders?
Elwyn Tinklenberg is already milking this for political gain. I
want more transportation funding as much as the next person but to
use this tragedy to take potshots at the governor is disgusting.
Yes, we can and should talk about consequences of not adequately
addressing our infrastructure needs, but now is not the time.
David Greene
The Wedge
Well said David. It's too soon to spin a tragedy before the victims are even
counted.
However there will be hard questions soon. Whether you want to call it casting
blame or searching for answers, brace yourself for a flood of speculation. Did
this catastrophe happen because of a negligent state agency, poor design,
environmental factors, or because of poor funding / misguided priorities at the
capitol? It seems to me that unless a definite reason emerges quickly, this
debate is bound to take shape - and it is bound to get at least somewhat
political.
I know things are happenin' when I find myself agreeing with David
Greene........ (yes, that's humor).......
......but here I do.
No one knows what happened to the bridge and why it fell. And I will be
quite skeptical of those who claim to know what happened in this horrible
tragedy until all the facts are in. That likely will take some time. Things
won't be the same around here for a long time.
But, I have a suggestion: can we please wait until the bodies are out of the
cars before we start Monday-morning quarterbacking this thing or connecting
this event to the war in Iraq (as one poster has already done)? I dread the
parade of opportunists who will use this to push agendas.
I'm heartbroken.
Mike Thompson
Windom
Look at the video at www.mplsmirror.com
Terry Yzaguirre
Powderhorn
All of our first thoughts should be that somones spouse, child, sister,
brother, friend, relative loved one has been killed, injured, or fell lucky
that they are alive. There will be plenty of time after to deal with the why
this happened. Please pray or keep in your thoghts (depending on your
beliefs) on the victims in largest tradegy in Minnesota in my lifetime.
Peace,
Carl Holmquist
CARAG
The Strib this morning (http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1338970.html) reports that the bridge was rated structurally deficient in 2005, receiving a rating of 50 out of 100 (which indicates that replacement may be necessary). The spokesperson for MNDOT responded that MNDOT was "very familiar" with the report but said that lots of other bridges carry the same designation. Why doesn't that make me feel better? Barry Clegg Nicollet Island
I had just left a neighborhood meeting in Phillips West and was headed back to
the office (by the Stone Arch Bridge) when the news came of the bridges
collapse. Park Av. turned into a literal freeway of police cars, ambulances,
fire trucks, sheriff cars etc. The response time was amazing. When I reached DT
I discovered there was a Twins game and many people were lined on 2nd St. So
trying to find parking. This made it problematic for safety vehicles as they
had to cross 2nd St at some point to get down to the river and under the 35W
bridge. I walked onto the Stone Arch Bridge along with hundreds of others.
Within minutes there were emergency vehicles from suburban cities on the scene
as well along with a sea of large tow trucks. Looking at the parking area for
the lock and dam I noticed the FBI vehicles and the "men in black" were also
immediately on the scene.
I feel very confident that Minneapolis has a very organized emergency
response system in place. Honestly, it was like an occupying army just swooped
in with complete and total precision. The emergency operations center was set
up with warp speed and the deployment of personnel was like a well-orchestrated
dance. Everyone appeared to know their role and just went to work. It made me
feel really safe and very fortunate to live in this City.
Barb Lickness
Whittier
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
I was impressed to hear many stories of survivors taking time to rescue
others before emergency personnel arrived, though they could have fled for
safety. This speaks well for Minnesotans.
Bob Quasius
Marshall, MN
> The Strib this morning > (http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1338970.html) reports that the > bridge was rated structurally deficient in 2005, receiving a rating of 50 > out of 100 (which indicates that replacement may be necessary). http://media.startribune.com/smedia/2007/08/01/21/bridges200110.source.prod_affiliate.2.pdf The primary concern in 2001 was avoiding the high expense of replacing the bridge. But Page 13 (bottom) notes that: "Concern about fatigue cracking is heightened by a lack of redundancy in the main truss system. Only two planes of main truss support eight lanes of traffic. The truss is determinate and the joints are theoretically pinned. Therefore, if one member were severed by a fatigue crack, that plane of the main truss would, theoretically, collapse." Based on the survivors' description of a sliding and swaying motion, and the simple fact that there aren't a large number of ways a bridge can totally fail, this is very likely what happened. Engineering failures like this almost invariably have a management failure component to them, since redundancies are supposed to be built into the system. There will likely be several places where the urgency of the situation was noted, but not communicated effectively. That aspect of this tragedy is indeed speculation at this time. However, it was a troubled bridge.
I think a special tip of the hat goes to the people who played and
who sat through the Twins game last night.
I would have been in agony, wanting to get out of the dome and get
home, check with family, anything but sit there and watch a game (a
game! for heaven's sake! a kids' game played by adults)
Those people have a lot of self control, both the people on the field
and in the stands.
My hat is off to them. If I'd been on the scene, I could have
pitched in. I could NOT have sat in the dome despite the need
to keep from plugging up the roads
Thanks Eric. As another poster noted, MNDOT's traffic info webpage
received not a single update last evening while every responsible
agency was updating traffic and recovery info all evening. I suspect
the minions at MNDOT were too busy shredding papers last night to
update their website. They're looking at a billion dollars or more in
liability and reconstruction costs that will make the anti transit
republicans see light rail as a bargain. There's a reason why they
won't let us near that bridge- they have evidence to literally cut up
and ship off to China before any enterprising lawyers add it to their
exhibit list. Freelance photographers with long lenses, this is your
opportunity...
As a truck driver and transportation geek, I've had a front row seat
watching our transportation infrastructure literally rot. Having all
too frequent chance to view the ugly underside of highway bridges,
I'm no longer shocked by rusted holes right through inches thick
steel beams. I've become desensitized to watching big pieces of
bridge move that shouldn't move and noting that bridges aren't
supposed to creak louder than your radio. So it's no surprise to see
the story of this bridge's failure told in the rusted clear through
freshly broken bridge beams pictured on the Strib's and other websites.
How did this bridge fall down? Like most structural failures, it was
not a sudden failure but a slow deterioration, pretty much hidden to
all but the MNDOT officials and their republican appointers who
looked the other way. Since this bridge was designed in the 60s
successive republican administrations have allowed the size of trucks
to grow by 50% with proportional increases in weight. Meanwhile,
practically every truck inspection and weight station in the state
has been closed and even torn down by pro business republican
administrations. Today, you can drive an overloaded truck the length
of Interstate 35 in Minnesota and never see a permanent weight
station, and more than a few corrupt truckers took advantage of that
opportunity.
You won't see many 40 year old 1967 model trucks on the highway, in
fact you won't see many 20 year old trucks on the highway. Here in
the rust belt, even quarter inch thick premium alloy steel truck
frames succumb to rust after a decade or two. And the heaviest truck
frames made of doubled up quarter inch steel, half an inch thick in
total, rust out even quicker as the salt brine is trapped between
those massive frame rails. Highway bridges are built in similar
fashion with overlapping metal sheets providing a safe hiding space
for the rust that never sleeps, fed by a steady stream of salt brine
from winter deicing.
This bridge saw more than a little salt- a bridge with a curve in
the rust belt is a maintainance nightmare. The Highway Department
solution to this problem back in the 70s was a salt truck on
steroids- a tractor trailer rig with twice the capacity of the usual
monster of a Highway Department salt truck. It dumped salt so fast
that it needed a conveyor belt right down the middle of the trailer
to feed the spreader, and it saw frequent action bathing metro area
freeway bridges like the one that just failed with a thick layer of
salt and sand. The salt truck on steroids isn't around anymore- it
rusted out long ago. Is it any wonder the bridges it dumped on are
rusting out too? That salt soon becomes a brine that leeches, flows,
and literally falls down into the bridge structure below. With the
salt truck on steroids rusted out and "normal" salt trucks unable to
keep up, MNDOT put in a sprinkler system to bathe the bridge in
brine. Then they ignored a long paper trail of alarming bridge
inspections and crossed their fingers while their republican bosses
repeated their "No New Taxes" mantra...
Our police department is quite correct in treating the 35W bridge as
a crime scene. Hopefully they'll maintain jurisdiction as the lead
agency and not allow state and federal republican appointees to take
over and cover republican rears. So just in case, let's take lots of
pictures of the bridge and gather screenshots from websites before
they can be disappeared. If you see chunks of bridge being hauled
away too soon, take more pictures and note where that evidence is
disappearing to. Four people are already confirmed dead and many more
are yet to be found, likely due to criminal negligence. Perps must be
brought to justice, whether they be gangbangers from the Northside or
well heeled republicans from St.Paul and D.C.
gazing fondly at the century old Lowry Bridge spans in Hawthorne,
Dyna Sluyter
From afar, it seems like Minneapolis city employees, management and politicians
performed splendidly last night. Anyone disagree? It sure is weird to feel
proud in the midst of tragedy.
The print, TV and radio coverage seemed outstanding, too. A lot of substance,
respectful treatment of victims and survivors, and a minimum of exploitiveness.
Again, any exceptions?
Thanks, too, to the citizen journalists who've been adding to the record today.
I love reading your posts Dyna. You've a deaft hand with
a pen (or keyboard). I certainly don't buy most of the
theories, but the writing/writhing is priceless.
Question to all the conspiracy theorists: Do you really
think that if any Governor or Legislature in the past 30
years had billions at their disposal to spend on
transportation needs of any kind, that it would have gone
into rebuilding 30-40 year old bridges that were
supposedly built to last 70 years? Spending a nickel on
anything but light rail these days is basically
impermissable. Doing anything over the river is subject
to lawsuits from every environmental organization in the
country. I'll be fascinated to see how many groups step
up to slow/block/diminish the rebuilding of this bridge as
it was. Nevermind any attempt to make it wider and more
capacious. Maybe if they design it with a light rail
lane, it will be more palatable.
I think we're very lucky that some lanes on the bridge were closed for repair.
If they had been open, the tragedy could have been so much worse.
Emilie, I've heard of a bridge nine, but it is in Paris, France. That won't
help at all.
WMarks, Central
I agree Barb- clearly there was a good plan in place. By 6:50PM there were suburban volunteer fire departments screaming up 35W from teh south to cover Minneapolis fire department while they were at river. The number of trucks were amazing. I even saw the Robbinsdale fire department make a call to Orchestra Hall at about 8PM. Clearly that does not happen without planning. Peter Tharaldson Loring Park Barbara Lickness <email obscured>> wrote: I had just left a neighborhood meeting in Phillips West and was headed back to the office (by the Stone Arch Bridge) when the news came of the bridges collapse. Park Av. turned into a literal freeway of police cars, ambulances, fire trucks, sheriff cars etc. The response time was amazing. When I reached DT I discovered there was a Twins game and many people were lined on 2nd St. So trying to find parking. This made it problematic for safety vehicles as they had to cross 2nd St at some point to get down to the river and under the 35W bridge. I walked onto the Stone Arch Bridge along with hundreds of others. Within minutes there were emergency vehicles from suburban cities on the scene as well along with a sea of large tow trucks. Looking at the parking area for the lock and dam I noticed the FBI vehicles and the "men in black" were also immediately on the scene. I feel very confident that Minneapolis has a very organized emergency response system in place. Honestly, it was like an occupying army just swooped in with complete and total precision. The emergency operations center was set up with warp speed and the deployment of personnel was like a well-orchestrated dance. Everyone appeared to know their role and just went to work. It made me feel really safe and very fortunate to live in this City. Barb Lickness Whittier "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead Barbara Lickness Whittier, Minneapolis Info about Barb Lickness: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/barbaralickness This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/17A2dztgNHmJl35NhQSzEO
Re: David B's assessment of the handling of this tragedy --
I was impressed that the Mayor's e-mail update on this came out around 12:30
a.m. today. While not always a fan of his cheerleader style, I felt he did
instill confidence in the midst of a crisis, from what I could see on TV.
Today I could do without some of the faces-in-the-background on TV of the
secondary-level political hangers-on, however. They look like opportunists
and should find a more constructive way to assist.
Also was impressed (as an insomniac last night glued to the news) that
Channel 5 TV stayed on the air when others went off. However, my only
concern was that it wasn't until 2 a.m. that, according to the TV reporters,
authorities were sending in haz mat teams to take a look at the crushed
train below the bridge that was said to be leaking "noxious"
something-or-other and caused some sort of further evacuation. Haven't heard
any verification or follow-up on this, but it made me wonder why it took 8
hours to look at that when the crushed train cars were noted early on.
Did anyone else think that the Red Cross spokesperson
sounded a little off key when he used the opportunity
to solicit funds for the organization? I believe he
said something to the effect that this incident was
covered but that the Red Cross could always use
donations for future events, something to that effect.
I totally agree. Sometimes in the heat of the politics we forget how
wonderful this city really is. After most of a lifetime in Texas, I
moved to this beautiful city. I have never regretted that move and am
proud to call it home.
I just attended the press conference at Waite House with the kids from the bus.
Jeremy Hernandez was amazingly solid and so were the other kids. These kids are
mostly from the 4 Phillips Community neighborhoods. They see so much in their
daily lives that I think this is why they were so resilient in the face of such
overwhelming danger and pure terror. I won't go into the story they told. It
will be on every news channel and in every paper on the planet earth. The place
was packed. It's heart warming and heart wrenching so watch the news tonight.
I spoke with the director of Waite House for awhile. He has asked me to work
with the 4 hillips neighborhoods to put together something special for these
kids. Stay tuned. I will be back to you asking you for something. I am not sure
what yet but I will be back.
Barb Lickness
Whittier
NRP Staff
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
I am sure m any of you have received calls from friends and family all over the
country. I certainly have also. And I did receive a call from a report in
England who said she was with a CNN news type station and she was looking for
people who had witnessed or been part of the bridge falling. When I asked her
how she got my number, she said," looking through the phone book."
That did seem weird to me but she was thrilled to hit a small jackpot by
getting a Park Commissioner who could talk about the bridge falling on the West
River Pkwy and the great Emergency Response efforts that were being made. And
then she went on about her business.
Another friend of mine got a call from her brother in France.
So the point - yes this made worldwide news.
Annie Young
East Phillips
Charlie Swope wrote: > Did anyone else think that the Red Cross spokesperson sounded a little off key when he used the opportunity to solicit funds for the organization? I believe he said something to the effect that this incident was covered but that the Red Cross could always use donations for future events, something to that effect. From the Red Cross Website: Regarding the 35W Bridge Collapse American Red Cross Blood Services was prepared for this disaster. No patient need is expected to go unmet. To ensure the right blood products continue to be available for patients in the future, the American Red Cross is asking donors to make an appointment to give blood by calling 1-800-GIVE LIFE (448-3543) or visiting www.givebloodgivelife.org So far, the Red Cross has provided more than 2,000 meals and more than 3,000 snacks to families and first responders on scene. Trained Red Cross counselors are continuing to provide comfort to those affected by this disaster. http://www.redcrosstc.org/newsDetail.cfm?page=GAQJKMVV Jason Samuels Whittier
David,
I completely agree from the bravery/quick response of 1st responders and
citizens, to the mayor, police chief, to the fire chief all were very
professional and answered questions but did not get involved in speculation.
There truly seemed to be a focus on the rescue efforts, victims, and their
families which is where we should all be at. This was important to me because
beyond the loss of life and victims, my personal feeling was that this type of
disaster does not happen in Minnesota. Whatever you say about Minnesota is
that feeling that we are competent and whatever we do it is done well. This
type of disaster shakes that core premise about being a Minnesotan.
I think the print, TV, and radio coverage was outstanding. I was impressed
with FOX9 and whoever it was who was the risk management bridge consultant that
they had. Reusse collumn today was outstanding and really summed up for me
that this is important and all this stuff about trades is not important. My
only disappointment was the KSTP news advertisement at about 5:45 am about how
thorough a news organization they are about the bridge coverage. I immediately
got on the phone and left them a message about using this event to espouse
their new coverage in an advertisement. Not appropriate.
Please keep the victims, their families, all rescue workers, and city/state
employees in your thoughts and prayers.
Peace,
Carl Holmquist
CARAG
I agree. From afar, it seems as if the city and the county response
has been quite good.
Gov. Pawlenty has been saying the right things, but hearings on
MnDOT's role in this are necessary before assessing the role of state
government.
Greg Abbott
Fulton
Regarding the scope of the news reports: Having lived in Germany, I often
check the online version of the Hamburger Abendblatt...the bridge collapse is
front page news there as well. Robert is from the Netherlands, his mom called
this morning to check in.
I have to say it's interesting that CNN reported deaths before any local
governmental units or local news stations did. Given the relative chaos that
was reigning, I have to believe CNN looked at the pictures and made a guess
(which was subsequently delivered as "news").
It is also noteworthy that this occurred despite all of the regulation,
inspections, and general bureaucracy in MN.
The wiki collection continues to grow: http://pages.e-democracy.org/35W One new item that is quite dramatic is a collection of images from newspapers around the world: http://newsdesigner.com/top50/bridge.php http://newsdesigner.com/int/bridge.php We've also added to the collection of videos including a couple on the main page including this montage to an REM song: When they start to release the names of those who have died or are missing, we could use some volunteers to help compile their stories/information. The wiki format is relatively easy, just press edit on a page and you'll get it pretty quick. Here is the full list of links - http://pages.e-democracy.org/35W - thus far: How You Can Help * Red Cross - What You Can Do? - More Groups, Give Blood * Travel Safely - Advice from AAA - Detour Map - MNDOT - BUSES [edit] News * StarTribune Coverage o 4 Dead, 79 Injured, 20 missing ... o Full Coverage Section o Interactive Graphic * Minnesota Public Radio * St. Paul Pioneer Press * Wikipedia Story on 35W Collapse and I-35W Bridge profile o Bridge Disasters * The Bridge Online * TV News - WCCO - KSTP - KMSP - KARE * Channel4000 - More from IBS via WISN * World Coverage - U.S. Newspaper Frontpages - Intl Frontpages - CNN - BBC * Google News - Latest - Relevant * Live blogging news - Minnesota Monitor - Minneapolis Metroblogging [edit] Video * 35W video - Large YouTube Collection * Bridge Collapse Video - from Security Camera via CNN * The Collapse - and - Video remix to REM Everybody Hurts [edit] Pictures Upload them to Flickr and tag them "mpls35W" along with other tags. Photo by Dani Bora Photo by Eric Brandt * Flickr Photos o danibora - Unique shots of EMTs assisting a field of injured o ebrandt78's photos o mrbula's photos o Adam Wolf's photos o Tony Webster's photos o Noah Kunin photos o Diversy o nanobiker's photos o timdan2's photos o mntiens o tubes o shannok o jpnuwat o Another one o Shellyj o Dwetzel - Great cell phone shot * 35W pictures - More Photos (Before and After) * StarTribune Photo Gallery * WCCO TV Slideshow * MPR Pictures * Time.com Photo's * John Weeks I-35 Bridge Profile and pre-collapse Pictures * I-35W Post-collapse * Geotagged Photos at Flickr [edit] Government * City of Minneapolis News * 511 MNDOT Traffic Conditions o Alternate Routes - AAA recommendations via KSTP.com * Extra Buses from Metro Transit * President Bush's Remarks o White House Spokesperson Tony Snow's comment: ``This doesn't mean there was a risk of failure, but if an inspection report identifies deficiencies, the state is responsible for taking corrective actions. * MNDOT Fatigue Evaluation of the Deck Truss of Bridge 9340 - 11MB, download via StarTribune [edit] Discussion * Minneapolis Issues Forum * MN-Politics * MNSpeak * MPR/Gather.com * Captains Quarter Blog * Blanked Out Blog - Home next to collapsed bridge * Metroblogging Minneapolis * More Blog Posts - Via Google Blog Search * Facebook Group: A Minnesota Catastrophe - The Collapse of the 35W Bridge 8/1/07 [edit] Maps * Google Map - the 35W logo is the epicenter. * Ariel Photo of Bridge Before Collapse [edit] More * John Weeks I-35 Bridge Profile and Pictures [edit] Community Responses * Jewish Community Response to I-35W Bridge Collapse o Temple Israel will be hosting an inter-faith community service of healing Thursday (8/2) at 6 p.m. in the sanctuary. We will come together as a community in loving memory of the victims and to provide comfort and support to family members, survivors, rescue workers, and public officials. Temple Israel is located at 2324 Emerson Avenue South, Minneapolis, MN 55405 (map). Questions Contact: 612-377-8680 o Jewish Family and Children’s Service of Minneapolis (JFCS) has announced that free crisis intervention counseling is available through the agency for any victims, responders or families impacted by the devastating bridge collapse in Minneapolis. JFCS has a staff of fully qualified counselors and they are prepared to assist anyone who feels they need additional emotional or psychological support at this time. To access free crisis counseling, call JFCS at 952-546-0616 and ask to speak to Intake and Information Services. [edit] Help Edit If you witnessed or were part of the disaster you may add a page with your personal story. Use a name like "35W Tom Smith story". This site works just like Wikipedia - see their help on how to edit a page. You can create a page by simply typing something like - http://pages.e-democracy.org/35W_Tom_Smith_story - note the underscores "_" instead of spaces. (Note when you edit a page, it suggests an error on the top line. Just ignore that and type in the "captcha" and press return to confirm you edit.
Having not watched TV in some 10+ years, I could not believe that I watched it
for three hours, then came home and read postings to this list.
What struck me most about the aftermath of TV interviews with survivors was the
amazing MN low affect delivery. 'First I felt bumps, then I felt like I was
falling, then I was in the river , but I'm OK,' so matter-of-fact it's eerie.
I don't think it was shock, either. It's a Minnesota trait. It was captured by
the Cohen brothers in the movie Fargo. Remember the woman trooper saying, "So
that would be your partner over there in the wood chipper."
Amazing.
WMarks, Central
I was told that the Stone Arch Bridge was closed today. Does anyone know if it
is (was) and why?
Christine Viken
Pepin, WI
Just read Strib. story that answered my question about the Stone Arch Bridge.
It
said it was closed until further notice to reserve its use for rescue
personnel.
Christine Viken
Pepin, WI
Some of you may not have seen or heard Bush's press conference yesterday. The
transcript is available at Minnesota Monitor. I'm sorry I don't know how to
include links. Apparently the video is available at whitehouse.gov. The
technology infrastucture in my home does not allow me to view videos. I heard
it live on the radio.
He devoted two paragraphs to the tragedy here. He segued into blasting Congress
for not getting spending bills to his desk.
The MSM separated it into two news stories so the nation would not know just
how callous the president is.
I am newly outraged by the president and the MSM.
Anne Hoops
Kingfield
here's the link. http://www.minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2161 This outrages you but oberstar's comments yesterday or klobochar's this morning, don't? interesting. John Harris webber-camden
It's horrible and I would like to put all the blame on Pawlenty, but I cannot
get there. In my mind it goes back to Reagan. He's the one who got elected
talking about "small government."
If the US was only as big as Delaware, small government would work fine,
probably. But ours is a big, rich country. So it needs an infrastructure to
match the size and the situation.
If we did not have a hugely, gigantically, enormously bloated military budget,
there would be no need to skimp on bridges and levees, schools, health care,
food, and a dozen other things. The military gets over $1 billion dollars a
>>DAY,<< every day of the year. (This does not include the cost of the Iraq
war.) And it still does not have enough soldiers for Afghanistan and Iraq.
I suppose when you're the biggest thing on a planet, you get to be the biggest
stupido.
WMarks, Central
I've been doing a lot of channel-hopping, watching the various media
outlets cover the bridge collapse, and I noticed that Fox News
described the bridge as connecting Minneapolis and St. Paul. (You
folks on the other Minneapolis side must be pissed at being
misidentified that way.) So out of curiosity I went to their website.
There I found an article that identified the bridge as the Stone Arch
Bridge.
never watched Fox before, don't think I'll ever watch it again.
I also saw a national news show -- don't remember which one -- that
had a caption blazoned across the screen spelling Minneapolis with one
N.
You can learn a lot about your own home town by watching national TV.
Sets you to wondering a bit what you might be learning about other
home towns.
Thanks for posting the link to Minnesota Monitor, John. I checked out the Fox
News website to find out what Oberstar said. His point was that the U.S. hasn't
been investing in infrastructure. He's right.
Wizard is also right. The lack of infrastructure investment goes back to at
least 1981 and Democrats have had control of the White House, the Senate and
the House part of that time.
We need to raise taxes and invest in infrastructure before more people die.
Anne Hoops
Kingfield
I just hope the infrastructure investments also include a light rail and
other mass transit options. As I see it, a big problem with Interstate
Highway bridges such as the 35W bridge, is the constant pounding they
take from vehicles on a daily basis. I have heard anywhere from 140,000
to 200,000 cars per day passed over the 35W bridge. We have got to find
a better way of moving people from point A to point B in Minneapolis and
our metropolitan region.
Bill Dooley
Kenny
About the bridge failure Wizard Marks says, "In my mind it goes back to
Reagan."
I would not expect such comedy from so serious a topic. I knew it would be
(insert Bush's/Pawlenty's/Republican's) fault, but I never would have guessed
Reagan's. Really - Reagan's!
I have been sickened by the finger pointing before the dust has settled and the
dead are layed to rest, but Wiz has brought out the humor in that finger
pointing. It's sunshine peaking from behind the nasty clouds of blame the
enemy (insert Bush/Pawlenty/Republicans and/or Reagan).
Thanks Wiz!
Ann Hoops: "We need to raise taxes and invest in infrastructure before more
people die."
No, I don't think we need to raise taxes. We need to divert taxes from the
military to everything else. In this fiscal year, the DOD will get $420
billion. If we cut that to $365 billion (which is still way too much
considering the poor performance for the money), we could fund everything else
fully, with money left over (a great deal of money left over).
Then military families would not have to have food stamps. Hunger could be
erased planet wide. Health would soar, we could have health care. Kids could
have small classes and books. College kids could have smaller tuitions. All 70
or 80,000 bridges could be fixed/rebuilt. We could have decent mass transit.
We do not have to raise taxes, we have to redeploy tax money to our needs.
WMarks, Central
After my last comment directed towards Wizard's need to lay blame and the hurry
to make this a political issue no less than 48 hours later, Wizard decided to
take it off-line. Did he do that with others who suggested the same?
I guess calling me "stupid" in front of the forum would make him look angry.
People, like Wizard, who have jumped in to use this tragedy for a political
divide when we should be focusing on building on the human good that has shown
in the past days are sick and yes often, bigoted.
I have watched, and read, and considered, and held my hand in commenting on
some of your emails, not because I agreed, but because there's a better time to
disagree. Let's enjoy the beauty of how Minnesotans have come together, be
proud of brave-everyday people and try to sympathize with the living whose
lives will never be the same, due to loss of a loved one or the nightmares sure
to haunt them.
Once the bodies have been recovered and the accident has been evaluated,
wouldn't it be great to work together to look at other options in
transportation and what rebuilding looks like as a unified MN.
Revolation to follow: I'm a Republican. I see benefit in mass transportation,
as well as better roads. I see re-evaluation of state and federal budget as a
positive thing for all of us. I wish that there was a way that "Republican"
came without the labels that many of you insist on using as a barrier for
honest communication.
Enough of my ranting - His comments and mine below.
-Jennifer Rubenzer
Maple Grove
Can someone explain the usefulness of having Laura
Bush visit the site of the collapsed bridge? What's
the point? It'll only distract from the efforts going
on to recover bodies and begin the investigation of
the causes. Why is she any different than the gawkers
the authorities have barred from the site?
My understanding is that this visit was scheduled for some time and
involved Republican Party business/fundraising/trimming "two by
fours"/etc. I guess she can't very well ignore what has happened, but
to make believe she was here because of it is pretty disingenuous of
the Bushies.
So we've abstracted the discussion to Guns and Butter. Wizard says no guns.
Who, then, does he think is going to stop me from taking his butter?
Military and war powers are at least delegated to the government under our
Constitution. When was the "Free Butter for All" amendment ratified?
Anne Hoops paraphrases Oberstar saying we haven't spent on infrastructure. This
is ludicrous. If we haven't spent on infrastructure how have we expanded our
cities into the precious prairie? Was it magic that grew new concrete on the
494 over the past few years? One side of a mouth decries exurban growth while
the other side of that same mouth suggests that we're not spending on
infrastructure. Which side is lying?
From Jeanne Moore's observation of what passes for news reporting: Remember all
your opinions about New Orleans during Katrina? They were founded on the same
sort of sensationalist nonsense. 24 hours have passed, and I argue that public
opinion has settled on whatever bogus story the national teams put together.
The rest of the country is on to new business. After the current President
leaves tomorrow, we'll go back to being a cold Omaha.
How about a toll bridge? Self-financing. But, please don't divert the payments
to subsidize some fantasy transit scheme. Just pay off the bridge.
Mark Fox
Now-separated NE Minneapolis
At 12:44 PM -0700 8/3/07, M Charles Swope wrote:
>Can someone explain the usefulness of having Laura
>Bush visit the site of the collapsed bridge? What's
>the point? It'll only distract from the efforts going
>on to recover bodies and begin the investigation of
>the causes. Why is she any different than the gawkers
>the authorities have barred from the site?
I am a strong believer in leaders showing leadership, which means as
a first step, *you show up*. I was proud of the Minn. congressional
delegation for getting on planes and coming home (I assume they all
did... I am sure of the senators and Rep. Ellison). I'm told our
MN-DOT head Carol Molnau came home for this, she was on a trip to
China? Anybody know?
The great difficulty in this is the security detail that follows
someone like Mrs. Bush. The Secret Service is undoubtedly going to
lock down the area, and that'll get in the way of the recovery work.
And the same when the President hits town tomorrow. The best and
kindest thing the Bushes could do would be to stay home (as when VP
Cheney acceded to the wishes of the Wellstone family and did not
attend the memorial for Paul and Sheila Wellstone) but of course
that's not politically possible.
If I were missing a family member right now, I'd surely want to know
that the recovery efforts can and will continue regardless of the
President's and First Lady's visits.
As a point of clarification, Wizard is most definitely a she who lives down the street from me. I do not understand how Mark Fox is "now-separated" in NE Minneapolis as I just rode my bicycle from the Southside to Northeast and back today. Are freeways the only way to be connected these days? I sure hope not. Since there are already calls being uttered far and wide to rebuild this bridge before the bodies are already cleared we have no choice but to start the conversation on what and how we should be building. We should _not_ be building more of the same--another 8 lane freeway bridge. This is an opportunity to lessen the burden of single occupancy vehicles on our transportation system by adding infrastructure that affords Twin Citians mobility choices. It seems that the burden of too many and too heavy vehicles on the bridge was at least a part of the cause of this tragedy. To ignore this opportunity to decrease the stress on our roads, by reducing the number of vehicles using them would certainly make me want to puke. We can rebuild with less single occupancy lanes, more HOV lanes, room for quality mass transit and room for pedestrians and bicycles in order to provide mobility choice for all. It's only the Republican/Ayn Randian thing to do: allow all individuals to be their best rather than forcing them to rely on private automobiles fueled by multi-billion dollar wars. After the 1989 earthquake San Fransisco decided, after much debate, not to rebuild the Embarcadero Freeway and San Fran is still kicking and much better off according to most. Folks can read about the history of the Embarcadero here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embarcadero_Freeway Does anyone in Minneapolis have the vision and courage shown by then San Fransisco Mayor Agnos? Time will tell, I guess. Matty Lang, Still very much connected being non-freeway dependent in Midtown Phillips
A few thoughts:
1. Wizard is a she, and I for one have a lot of respect for her.
2. Off-line communication is just that, off-line. I'm sure the list
meister will be along soon enough to address that issue.
Once I inadvertently sent a piece of off line communication to the
group. I was horrified at my error and did an immediate mea culpa.
One thing I love about this group is the emphasis placed on this sort
of etiquette, so essential when topics as heated as we encounter arise.
I have pointed with considerable pride to my friends back in Texas
where I moved from, of the way that politics as usual were set aside
and we as a city came together in what could only be considered
heroic fashion. What happened in this city during the crisis was a
textbook example of how a city should respond I think. I suppose
that as we move further from the immediacy of Wednesday and the day
after's events, that cohesiveness will begin to evaporate. That is
sad I think.
Self revelation: I am DFL, gay, transsexual, liberal, pinko, left of
Gandhi socially and Lenin economically... but today a citizen of
Minneapolis and Minnesota first and foremost. Did I mention I even
have Republican friends? ;-)
Peace;
Jessi
Jessica Wicks, NE Mpls, Sheridan
"Great necessities call out great virtues."
Abigail Adams
Matty Lang wrote:
> Since there are already calls being uttered far and wide to rebuild this
bridge before the bodies are already cleared we have no choice but to start the
conversation on what and how we should be building. We should _not_ be
building more of the same--another 8 lane freeway bridge. This is an
opportunity to lessen the burden of single occupancy vehicles on our
transportation system by adding infrastructure that affords Twin Citians
mobility choices.
>
I don't think it's inappropriate for those of us who are not involved in
the recovery efforts to begin to talk about what to do next. Merely
assuming that the thing that was there should be replaced as soon as
possible is making a decision without considering all of the
possibilities; plenty of people have been making that assumption on
national TV.
What if we don't replace it? What are the benefits and costs? Is there
something else that would be better?
I live west of the river and work east of the river so the question is
not merely rhetorical for me.
At 11:46 AM -0500 8/3/07, Jeane Moore wrote:
>I've been doing a lot of channel-hopping, watching the various media
>outlets cover the bridge collapse, and I noticed that Fox News
>described the bridge as connecting Minneapolis and St. Paul. Their website
>. . .identified the bridge as the Stone Arch Bridge.
>
I'm pretty sure Jeane didn't miss this further idiocy by our locals:
TV Channel 4 on Wednesday evening kept saying that "the city" was on
the south side of the bridge. As a person who lives in this city, but
on the densely urban east side of the river and on the densely urban
"north end" of the 35W bridge, that error showed--again and
again--that the anchors don't know how to distinguish between
"downtown" and "the city" and simply don't know Minneapolis.
They actually pay these people.
Connie
Como, in Southeast Minneapolis
"I am a strong believer in leaders showing leadership,
..."
So am I but how does this apply to Laura Bush?
I agree with Wizard's assessment of a bloated, out of control military
budget. It's part of the bloated, out of control government budget that
exists at the state and local levels.
We have the money. We always have had the money to do what we want. What we
lack is courage. When we WANT $40 Million for a new state park, Twins
stadiums, Taj MaLibraires, and a choo-choo at
who-knows-how-many-million-dollars-per-mile (one that hasn't done one iota
for congestion)........ well the wants then overtake the needs. Needs
suffer. Needs often are not as sexy as wants. I certainly will not go as far
as to suggest what was the cause of this tragedy or that it was connected to
the war in Iraq (as one poster did less than 24 hours after the incident) or
that it is the fault of the GOP or the DFL or the CIA or whatnot. What I can
say is that this is not, and never was, an issue of money, in this posters
opinion.
What I will say is that it is a horrible event that occurred. I rode my bike
around the area and was speechless. I couldn't see much, but what I could
see really put things in perspective.
Mike Thompson
Windom
Jon Gorder <email obscured>> wrote: I too thought the response from all
at hand (truly) was remarkable, I'm proud of my city. I think a fine response,
after of course the recovery operation is over, would be to have as many
survivors, first responders and any others involved to come to a Twins game so
that we all can applaud them with our appreciation.
I nominate Jeremy Hernandez to throw out the first pitch.
Jon Gorder
Cathedral Hill
I have pointed with considerable pride to my friends back in Texas
where I moved from, of the way that politics as usual were set aside
and we as a city came together in what could only be considered
heroic fashion. What happened in this city during the crisis was a
textbook example of how a city should respond I think. I suppose
that as we move further from the immediacy of Wednesday and the day
after's events, that cohesiveness will begin to evaporate. That is
sad I think.
Peace;
Jessi
Jessica Wicks, NE Mpls, Sheridan
Jeane - FOX only claims to be "fair and balanced"; it has never claimed to
be accurate or truthful!
Jim Bernstein
Minneapolis
This bridge is part of the Interstate Highway System and was designed
(though obviously not as well as it should have been) to carry motor vehicle
traffic - not pedestrians and bicycles.
It must be designed and re-built to accommodate at least the same volume of
vehicle traffic that this stretch of 35W carries each day. Pedestrians and
bicycles can easily use the Stone Arch, Hennepin, 3rd Ave., and Cedar/10th
Ave bridges to cross the river in this vicinity. There is no good reason to
re-build this bridge on a smaller scale. That said, I would hope that the
new bridge could be built with a light rail component. I for one would love
to see light rail from Downtown to the U of M.
Jim Bernstein
Fulton
Below is link to audio from the PBS Newshour last night in which Mayor RT Rybak and Hennepin County Sheriff Stanek were interviewed. Again the competence and right tone set by our leaders in this very difficult situation. Truly focusing on the right thing which is the victims, their families, and the rescue/recovery of all victims. Proud to be a citizen of Minneapolis and Minnesota during this crisis. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/ (Friday Show on Right Side) Rememeber to keep your thoughts and prayers with the victims, their families, and the rescue workers. Let's keep hoping for miracles for the people who are missing. There will be time for us to act later to help hopefully make something good come out of this crisis. Peace, Carl Holmquist CARAG
I raised the question of the closing of the Stone Arch Bridge (and later Bridge
# 9) to bicyclists and pedestrians right away and was told that it was
necessary for access for emergency vehicles. I got those closings added to the
City of Mpls traffic info after an amazingly callous response from a Park
worker who didn't understand the difference an unanticipated detour makes for a
bicyclist, pedestrian or wheelchair user.
On Friday Sheriff Stanek said they needed to be closed because of the security
problems occuring with the president's visit. As I watch the president leaving
it is time to reopen those bridges as important non motorized links in the
area.
Phyllis Kahn State Rep 59B
On Aug 3, 2007, at 2:45 PM, Jennifer Rubenzer wrote:
> People, like Wizard, who have jumped in to use this tragedy for a
> political divide when we should be focusing on building on the
> human good that has shown in the past days are sick and yes often,
> bigoted.
Well, welcome to the forum. Wizard is a lady by the way. She has been
a forum member for as long as I can remember.
We do have political differences on this discussion group. Here is my
list of observations/suggestions which you may or may not label as
political.
35W is a federal highway and is entitled to federal funding.
It is subject to federal action ending with the president's approval
or veto.
The inspections have been delegated to the states.
Minnesota has to do its review and see where the system of
maintenance and state funding needs change. The bridge collapse
assures that this must happen.
The fact that there are hundreds of thousands of bridges across
America that need attention indicates an infrastructure problem.
35W is part of that national infrastructure problem.
More engineers on the job wouldn't hurt.
Laura
Southeast/Como
Laura Waterman Wittstock
President and CEO
Wittstock & Associates
913 19th Ave SE
Minneapolis, MN 55414
612-387-4915
www.laurawatermanwittstock.com
Thanks for doing this, Phyllis.
I will never forget the first day of one of the bus strike (not the most
recent, the one before that). When biking to my second shift job I was
stunned to find the Stone Arch bridge closed for resurfacing. The strike
had been coming for weeks if not months and everyone knew when except
whoever it was that planned that work.
As long as there are people who don't understand that bikes are a form of
transportation we'll never have a good bike commuter trail system.
Jim McGuire
Como
I'm absolutely worn out thinking about the bridge. Our house member came home
from work at Waite House, late, but whole, having been assigned office duty
that day.
At the same time I am awe struck by the behavior of MPD and Chief Dolan, MFD,
rescue workers from far and near, nurses and doctors, EMTs, and ordinary
citizens. Low affect, get the job done, no screwing around. The rehersals for
disaster were taken seriously and worked like a well-oiled machine. Wonderful.
A special note has to be made about RT. He has behaved so splendidly in this
disaster. He has consistently kept the focus on the victims and their families,
for which I thank him from the bottom of my heart. "Keeping it real," as the
kids say. He has also spent all the time that he could at the hotel with the
families of the victims. That is real classy.
It should also be noted that e-democracy did/is doing a great job and jumped in
wholeheartedly with their mysterious expertise. I presume that means Steven
Clift and Tim Erickson, and perhaps many others. Nice, very nice.
WMarks, Central
"Minnesota has to do its review and see where the system of maintenance and
state funding needs change. The bridge collapse
assures that this must happen.
The fact that there are hundreds of thousands of bridges across America that
need attention indicates an infrastructure problem.
35W is part of that national infrastructure problem."
This is an example of the rampant fuzzy thinking after tragedy. We do not know
the cause of collapse. The bridge was believed to be aging but serviceable.
Engineering language (structurally deficient) does not directly translate into
ordinary terms. No change in policy at any point in the past can today be shown
to have affected the outcome. The collapse offers many camps the opportunity to
swing their rhetorical axes, but adds no logical support to their old
arguments.
O.K., one policy would have mattered: A full and unfettered roadway expansion
policy would likely have seen a still-useful bridge replaced with a
higher-capacity span. Even then, since we don't know what happened, capacity
might have been added elsewhere and this span would still be in the water
today.
Mark Fox
East of the chasm (Audubon Park)
Not that I know a thing about it, but I am beginning to suspect that inspecting
bridges is more art than science. It appears that it's done by eyeballing
everything and if nothing jumps out and grabs the observer, then it's declared
"safe." Somehow, I thought that the inspection was more along the lines of
finding ways to stress a bridge and then looking for trouble areas. Or, maybe,
gathering samples and deciding from the samples how bad corrosion has been and
then running numbers on the support strength left. Granted that structural
engineers, unlike me, do know what to look for. However, how much can they see
with from a bucket ten feet away?
The thing about the MNDOT hiring a consultant to examine the I-35 bridge and
when they came back with a recommendation of welding plates to it to strengthen
it and MNDOT requested "additional alternatives" smells to high heaven. The
fact that the additional alternative was, basically, to do nothing and just
inspect some more just adds to the stench.
Steve Cross
Prospect Park
The Sunday New York Times has an interesting opinion piece regarding the Minneapolis bridge and infrastructure in general. It can be found at: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/opinion/05sun1.html for the next week. After 1 week, it will be in the paid archive. Neil Carlson Loring
I understand why the 10th Avenue Bridge remains closed.
But there is no reason to keep the Stone Arch Bridge and Bridge 9 closed.
Neither is near the collapsed Bridge. The orginal story was that the Stone
Arch was needed for emergency vehicles - and I know a few did use it for that
purpose on Wednesday night - but now there's police tape across the ends and a
car parked across the entryway - no emergency vehicles have crossed for days.
The official reason after that was security for the President's visit - ok -
that makes sense, but now he's gone.
But especially when traffic will be a mess for the indefinite future and
officials are urging folks to use alternate routes and forms of transportation
- closing down 2 of the main pedestrian and bicycle arteries across the river
for any longer than necessary makes little sense. I know this is probably a
low priority, but it shouldn't be too hard to remove some yellow tape. Can we
have at least those 2 bridges back now? Thank you!!
Barry Clegg
Nicollet Island
At 9:14 AM +1200 8/6/07, Barry Clegg wrote: >I understand why the 10th Avenue Bridge remains closed. > >But there is no reason to keep the Stone Arch Bridge and Bridge 9 closed. Linda Lincoln just posted today for the riverine newspaper The Bridge the news that the city has re-opened the Stone Arch bridge to foot and bike passage. http://www.readthebridge.info/node/2130 She also provides a good discussion of what's happening with traffic issues for our neighborhoods near the 35W bridge site. Connie Como, in Southeast Mpls
The Stone Arch is indeed now open (it must have been my last post that did the
trick :-) ) and it has at least a thousand people on it.
Barry Clegg
Nicollet Island
I just want to remind folks in the Minneapolis Issues Forum, that we have now launched a Minnesota forum right here on http://forums.e-democracy.org To see what is being discussed there: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mn-politics/messages/postsSummary.html?l=50 You don't have to be a member to read the messages via the web. Also, check out the WEB FEED - if you prefer to read that way. The Minnesota Forum is off to a great start with a very interesting discussion on: Rebuilding The I-35W Bridge http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4KCaUwF0Hd23YpcfF5mIC2 Also, we still have our resource page at: http://pages.e-democracy.org/35W Best wishes, Tim Erickson E-Democracy.Org
Steve's observation is very pointed. I also find the observation of construction workers (below) disturbing. I myself crossed the bridge northbound at 4pm, and took an alternate route southbound with my kids - for which I consider myself fortunate. My heart goes out to those affected by the collapse. "At the site, Hoeppner talked to construction workers who survived the fall. They had been doing repair work but expressed concern to him that the bridge had been wobbling several days before it collapsed. Every layer of concrete the workers removed, the bridge would wobble even more, they told Hoeppner." http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1343624.html
A reminder to all on the list:
What happens off-list stays off list. A key list rule says no post may be
forwarded to the list without the author's (not the recipient's) permission.
The goal is to keep uncivil stuff off the list. I'm sorry, I can't police the
whole world, just what's sent out from this forum. Please help and abide by the
rules!
On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 14:39:01 +1200 (NZST), Tim Erickson wrote:
>You don't have to be a member to read the messages via the web. Also, check
out the WEB FEED - if you prefer to read that way.
With all due respect, Tim, who's got time to do that?
Neat story about Minneapolis from the Christian Science Monitor ... http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0808/p01s03-ussc.html
Mike Kaszuba, et.al. have this story today: A chronology of the bridge
www.startribune.com/462/story/1350056.html
Very interesting.
WMarks, Central
Good MPR story about the city's budget pre- and post-35W collapse: http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/08/09/strain/?rsssource=1
At 09:49 PM 8/8/2007, wizard marks wrote: Mike Kaszuba, et.al. have this story today: A chronology of the bridge www.startribune.com/462/story/1350056.html I think Paul Brand must have looked at that before he wrote today's column. http://www.startribune.com/131/story/1351739.html It's the most cogent reaction to the bridge collapse I've found. Please look for his take on citizen responsibility as well as the responsibilities of the creative and structure-building professionals, and the responsibilities of our officials in charge.
There is a very interesting and to the point commentary from John Gunyou in tomorrow's (Monday, August 13th, 2007) Star Tribune titled: New Motto: Buck Passes Through Here Rather than acknowledging any responsibility for the bridge, today's leaders have perfected the art of the non-apology. See the article at: http://www.startribune.com/562/story/1356413.html Neil Carlson Loring
Strib says the last body's been recovered ... http://www.startribune.com/10204/story/1373659.html Let's open up the 10th Street bridge and Bridge 9 ASAP!
Tonight's channel 5 news had a story about this. If they open the 10th
street bridge, the pedestrian path is on the wrong side of the bridge and
the railing on the upstream side is too low to be safe for peds. They are
considering putting up a chain link barricade as an option.
Kevin Wynn, Dad
Minneapolis, MN
2005 Ural Tourist - "Tripod"
Northern Bikers for Global Warming
Bridge 9 is now open - you can access it only from the West Bank. The entire
length of the bridge is open but it's closed at the east side.
Barry Clegg
Nicollet Island
Today's (Wednesday, August 22, 2007) Star Tribune has an excellent Nick Coleman column on the 35W bridge collapse. The column is on the net at: http://www.startribune.com/coleman/story/1375755.html
Even better is the Editorial on Richard Braun, former MNDOT Commissioner under Quie and Perpich (who was one of the best people in state government I've ever worked with) http://www.startribune.com/editorials/story/1375565.html ................................. Sheldon Mains Seward Neighborhood, Minneapolis, Minnesota http://www.SheldonMains.com/ Blog: http://RandomStuffFromSheldon.blogspot.com/ Twitter.com: sheldonM <email obscured>
Could you please explain where bridge 9 is? I know this has been discussed before, but I never did figure it out. I can't picture another bridge in that area. Is it downstream from 10th Ave.? Thanks Barry Clegg wrote: > Bridge 9 is now open - you can access it only from the West Bank. The entire length of the bridge is open but it's closed at the east side. > > Barry Clegg > Nicollet Island > > Barry Clegg > > Info about Barry Clegg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/contacts/barryclegg > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3WVfxLGNGJ7oBSfadNtoL3
Bridge 9 is the old Northern Pacific RR bridge north
of the Washington Avenue bridge. It is now a
pedestrian/bike bridge.
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