Hello neighbors, just curious if anyone knows why the stoplights at 42nd St &
28th Ave are under study for removal?
28th Ave are under study for removal?
Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
- 54 posts by
- Last post by Sam Newberg at 1:46am, May 30, 2014
Keywords:
- 42nd
- stop
- 28th
- traffic
- intersection
On Facebook, SENA staff wrote that the city is doing a 30 day study to see
which works better. They also said to call 311 if you have a strong opinion
either way. I personally prefer the stop signs, as when we had them
temporarily, traffic seemed to move more smoothly, and I also prefer it as
a cyclist.
which works better. They also said to call 311 if you have a strong opinion
either way. I personally prefer the stop signs, as when we had them
temporarily, traffic seemed to move more smoothly, and I also prefer it as
a cyclist.
I have relocated temporarily out of state but was back for a visit for Mother's
Day. I couldn't believe they were considering a four-way stop there. In my
first visit to that corner in six months, traffic was backed up in all four
directions, and a pedestrian was almost hit crossing the street.
Day. I couldn't believe they were considering a four-way stop there. In my
first visit to that corner in six months, traffic was backed up in all four
directions, and a pedestrian was almost hit crossing the street.
If they are considering 42nd & 28th, they also need to consider the far less
used stoplight at 44th & 28th. I understand it's proximity to the park but a 4
way stop would be more than adequate or flashing crosswalk lights might be ok
too. Also since the re-surfacing of 28th the sensor on 44th does not seem to
work or they delayed how it makes the light change. It use to turn as you
approached the light now there is a significant wait even with no one coming on
28th. The light for 28th will also go red when noone is on 44th. This leads me
to believe the whole intersection is on timers instead of sensors.
used stoplight at 44th & 28th. I understand it's proximity to the park but a 4
way stop would be more than adequate or flashing crosswalk lights might be ok
too. Also since the re-surfacing of 28th the sensor on 44th does not seem to
work or they delayed how it makes the light change. It use to turn as you
approached the light now there is a significant wait even with no one coming on
28th. The light for 28th will also go red when noone is on 44th. This leads me
to believe the whole intersection is on timers instead of sensors.
I, too, believe 44th Street and 28th Avenue is on a timer rather than a
sensor, but as someone who lives on 28th, I really like it. Far fewer cars
come roaring down the street at 45mph now that the light occasionally slows
them down. A four way stop could be even better if that was your goal.
Willy
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Mike Godfrey
sensor, but as someone who lives on 28th, I really like it. Far fewer cars
come roaring down the street at 45mph now that the light occasionally slows
them down. A four way stop could be even better if that was your goal.
Willy
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Mike Godfrey
I believe sensors also don't work well for cyclists, who don't "trip"
them".
them".
The city is asking for feedback on the project. Along with calling 311, you can
also e-mail <email obscured>, which is what I did after seeing
18 cars waiting in each direction about 4:40 p.m. Friday. If you share a view
here, why not also share it via e-mail?
Vince Tuss
4100 block of Standish
Standish
also e-mail <email obscured>, which is what I did after seeing
18 cars waiting in each direction about 4:40 p.m. Friday. If you share a view
here, why not also share it via e-mail?
Vince Tuss
4100 block of Standish
Standish
If this intersection was not next to Roosevelt high school and all the teenage
drivers I would agree with you. However, there are too many reckless kids and
I doubt they would pay much attention to stop signs, they don't pay much
attention to the stop sign at 39th St and 29th Ave. Also there are so many
students that use that crossing having a stop sign would slow everything down.
I don't understand why the city would be doing this study at this time, school
will be out in a couple of weeks and so the results will be not be correct,
students are there 9 months out of the year, the study should be done with
school in session sometime in the spring when there is no snow and a lot of
traffic. Just my opinion. Josephine
Josephine Vaughn
<email obscured>
drivers I would agree with you. However, there are too many reckless kids and
I doubt they would pay much attention to stop signs, they don't pay much
attention to the stop sign at 39th St and 29th Ave. Also there are so many
students that use that crossing having a stop sign would slow everything down.
I don't understand why the city would be doing this study at this time, school
will be out in a couple of weeks and so the results will be not be correct,
students are there 9 months out of the year, the study should be done with
school in session sometime in the spring when there is no snow and a lot of
traffic. Just my opinion. Josephine
Josephine Vaughn
<email obscured>
I am a huge fan of the change. We have far too many stoplights in Minneapolis.
They are expensive, unsafe, and cause people to wait more than necessary. I'll
take a backup of 8 cars at 4:40 PM over sitting for two minutes at a red light
at 11 pm with no other cars in sight. The perception of waiting in queue at a
stop sign is actually often comparable to hitting a red light at a stoplight -
if you have a watch with a second hand, count how long you wait and I bet it's
not longer than you'd wait before at a red light.
Here's an article I wrote on the topic, which sparked a discussion in the local
press last year: http://streets.mn/2013/12/11/too-many-stoplights/
Stoplights are also used as ways to allow people to cross, especially for
children and families walking to schools and parks. There's a saying by user
experience experts in the urbanism field that if your street needs crosswalks,
you know your street is designed wrong. Needing stoplights to cross a street
because crosswalks won't do means the street is not designed for humans. Major
traffic calming is needed on our streets. At intersections like 44th/28th,
refuge islands are a great way to facilitate crossing and shared space without
stoplights. They're working great at 42nd/17th and 46th/17th on the new
Southern Bike Connection.
They are expensive, unsafe, and cause people to wait more than necessary. I'll
take a backup of 8 cars at 4:40 PM over sitting for two minutes at a red light
at 11 pm with no other cars in sight. The perception of waiting in queue at a
stop sign is actually often comparable to hitting a red light at a stoplight -
if you have a watch with a second hand, count how long you wait and I bet it's
not longer than you'd wait before at a red light.
Here's an article I wrote on the topic, which sparked a discussion in the local
press last year: http://streets.mn/2013/12/11/too-many-stoplights/
Stoplights are also used as ways to allow people to cross, especially for
children and families walking to schools and parks. There's a saying by user
experience experts in the urbanism field that if your street needs crosswalks,
you know your street is designed wrong. Needing stoplights to cross a street
because crosswalks won't do means the street is not designed for humans. Major
traffic calming is needed on our streets. At intersections like 44th/28th,
refuge islands are a great way to facilitate crossing and shared space without
stoplights. They're working great at 42nd/17th and 46th/17th on the new
Southern Bike Connection.
The SENA BDT originally tried to get the city to test the stop sign last summer
after 28th Avenue reopened. With 28th closed for construction last summer, 42nd
Street had a temporary stop sign for about a month before new traffic light
poles were installed. Our idea was to leave the stop signs in place after 28th
reopened. However, that request didn't occur in time and the light was turned
back on, so here we are a year later testing it for real.
Do call 311 with comments pro and con. But consider with a four-way stop sign
there is never a vehicle flying through the intersection in any direction. I
want our neighborhood to be known for its great parks, homes, businesses and
train stations, not for the ability to drive through at a rapid clip.
Whatever comes of this test at 42nd and 28th, the SENA BDT has been and will
continue to be working to find ways to slow traffic and improve pedestrian and
bicycle safety around the neighborhood.
after 28th Avenue reopened. With 28th closed for construction last summer, 42nd
Street had a temporary stop sign for about a month before new traffic light
poles were installed. Our idea was to leave the stop signs in place after 28th
reopened. However, that request didn't occur in time and the light was turned
back on, so here we are a year later testing it for real.
Do call 311 with comments pro and con. But consider with a four-way stop sign
there is never a vehicle flying through the intersection in any direction. I
want our neighborhood to be known for its great parks, homes, businesses and
train stations, not for the ability to drive through at a rapid clip.
Whatever comes of this test at 42nd and 28th, the SENA BDT has been and will
continue to be working to find ways to slow traffic and improve pedestrian and
bicycle safety around the neighborhood.
As well, I am very much in favor of a stop sign in all directions at 44th
Street and 28th Avenue. I think it is fair for all cars to stop there to slow
traffic on 28th, and make it easier to cross 28th to get to and from the park.
Street and 28th Avenue. I think it is fair for all cars to stop there to slow
traffic on 28th, and make it easier to cross 28th to get to and from the park.
Thank you, Matt, for sharing your opinion and information with the forum. I
must agree with you.....Having just returned from San Francisco where there is
a stop sign on almost every intersection, I would say that it is a more relaxed
and civilized way to live.....I wholeheartedly support the stop sign on 42nd
and 28th vs. the stop light. This is a Quality of Life issue and I hope that
our Quality of Life Committee will support a change to stop signs vs. stop
lights. The next Quality of Life meeting is scheduled for June 3, 6:30 p.m. in
the SENA office.
Doris
must agree with you.....Having just returned from San Francisco where there is
a stop sign on almost every intersection, I would say that it is a more relaxed
and civilized way to live.....I wholeheartedly support the stop sign on 42nd
and 28th vs. the stop light. This is a Quality of Life issue and I hope that
our Quality of Life Committee will support a change to stop signs vs. stop
lights. The next Quality of Life meeting is scheduled for June 3, 6:30 p.m. in
the SENA office.
Doris
I like it too. Maybe it'll make people slow down so I can cross in the cross
walk at 26th without almost being hit by speeding cars.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 19, 2014, at 7:18 PM, Doris Overby
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you, Matt, for sharing your opinion and information with the forum. I
must agree with you.....Having just returned from San Francisco where there is
a stop sign on almost every intersection, I would say that it is a more relaxed
and civilized way to live.....I wholeheartedly support the stop sign on 42nd
and 28th vs. the stop light. This is a Quality of Life issue and I hope that
our Quality of Life Committee will support a change to stop signs vs. stop
lights. The next Quality of Life meeting is scheduled for June 3, 6:30 p.m. in
the SENA office.
> Doris
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Steele <<email obscured>>
> To: mpls-staneric <mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 7:12 pm
> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>
>
> I am a huge fan of the change. We have far too many stoplights in
Minneapolis.
> They are expensive, unsafe, and cause people to wait more than necessary.
I'll
> take a backup of 8 cars at 4:40 PM over sitting for two minutes at a red
light
> at 11 pm with no other cars in sight. The perception of waiting in queue at a
> stop sign is actually often comparable to hitting a red light at a stoplight
-
> if you have a watch with a second hand, count how long you wait and I bet
it's
> not longer than you'd wait before at a red light.
>
> Here's an article I wrote on the topic, which sparked a discussion in the
local
> press last year: http://streets.mn/2013/12/11/too-many-stoplights/
>
> Stoplights are also used as ways to allow people to cross, especially for
> children and families walking to schools and parks. There's a saying by user
> experience experts in the urbanism field that if your street needs
crosswalks,
> you know your street is designed wrong. Needing stoplights to cross a street
> because crosswalks won't do means the street is not designed for humans.
Major
> traffic calming is needed on our streets. At intersections like 44th/28th,
> refuge islands are a great way to facilitate crossing and shared space
without
> stoplights. They're working great at 42nd/17th and 46th/17th on the new
Southern
> Bike Connection.
> Matt Steele
> Northrop, Minneapolis
> About/contact Matt Steele:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/5Jf8jUJj2nKJhbzpff00FR
walk at 26th without almost being hit by speeding cars.
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 19, 2014, at 7:18 PM, Doris Overby
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you, Matt, for sharing your opinion and information with the forum. I
must agree with you.....Having just returned from San Francisco where there is
a stop sign on almost every intersection, I would say that it is a more relaxed
and civilized way to live.....I wholeheartedly support the stop sign on 42nd
and 28th vs. the stop light. This is a Quality of Life issue and I hope that
our Quality of Life Committee will support a change to stop signs vs. stop
lights. The next Quality of Life meeting is scheduled for June 3, 6:30 p.m. in
the SENA office.
> Doris
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Steele <<email obscured>>
> To: mpls-staneric <mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org>
> Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 7:12 pm
> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>
>
> I am a huge fan of the change. We have far too many stoplights in
Minneapolis.
> They are expensive, unsafe, and cause people to wait more than necessary.
I'll
> take a backup of 8 cars at 4:40 PM over sitting for two minutes at a red
light
> at 11 pm with no other cars in sight. The perception of waiting in queue at a
> stop sign is actually often comparable to hitting a red light at a stoplight
-
> if you have a watch with a second hand, count how long you wait and I bet
it's
> not longer than you'd wait before at a red light.
>
> Here's an article I wrote on the topic, which sparked a discussion in the
local
> press last year: http://streets.mn/2013/12/11/too-many-stoplights/
>
> Stoplights are also used as ways to allow people to cross, especially for
> children and families walking to schools and parks. There's a saying by user
> experience experts in the urbanism field that if your street needs
crosswalks,
> you know your street is designed wrong. Needing stoplights to cross a street
> because crosswalks won't do means the street is not designed for humans.
Major
> traffic calming is needed on our streets. At intersections like 44th/28th,
> refuge islands are a great way to facilitate crossing and shared space
without
> stoplights. They're working great at 42nd/17th and 46th/17th on the new
Southern
> Bike Connection.
> Matt Steele
> Northrop, Minneapolis
> About/contact Matt Steele:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/5Jf8jUJj2nKJhbzpff00FR
Perhaps a solution worth trying is to have the full lights working during the
morning rush hour and just before school let's out until maybe 7 during the
school week. At the other time slots the lights blink Red for both
directions. A much better warning to drivers to slow down and stop than having
a stop sign on the curb. Study this idea for a year before spending a lot of
money to remove the lights.
Bob Friedman
morning rush hour and just before school let's out until maybe 7 during the
school week. At the other time slots the lights blink Red for both
directions. A much better warning to drivers to slow down and stop than having
a stop sign on the curb. Study this idea for a year before spending a lot of
money to remove the lights.
Bob Friedman
This discussion should revolve
around managing intersectionsafety
while improving operational efficiency. It should not be how to control the
vehicle speed of others, as if we just popped out of a George Orwell novel.
A 4-way stop sign at a busy intersection not only wastes
everyoneβs time and gas,
it will increase our neighborhoodβs carbon footprint that
could upset Al Gore.Β And it definitely
encourages traffic to drive through more narrow and parked-car filled side
streets to avoid it, putting everyone who lives there at greater risk.
Whenever you replace a light with a 4 way sign at a busy
intersection you lose a significant margin of safety especially for bikers and
pedestrians.Β This is not conjecture or
merely my opinion, just simple logic folks.
For all those who live nearby and have no fear for their
lives, go walk or bike across that intersection when it's backed up 10 cars in
all directions.Β Put your life in the
hands of 4 drivers of which 2 are irritated.Β So you all stare at each other
with indecision, then someone waves you
across putting you in grave danger cause they have no control over the other 3
drivers, some of which might not even see you crossing.
A stoplight is quite simply a higher form of traffic control
over a 4 way sign, which is far more chaotic and primitive. A roundabout would
be preferred over a 4 way stop, assuming Americans could learn to use them.
A stoplight is also a more efficient method for the movement
of traffic.Β If you donβt believe me
just imagine for a microsecond every light on Hiawatha replaced with a 4 way
stop.
Part of this argument boils down to how busy the
intersection is.Β One could argue it was
busy enough for the city to install the light in the first place, and Iβll bet
traffic hasnβt decreased since that decision was made.Β There are businesses on
all 4 corners.Β One could also argue itβs far busier than
the stoplight 2 blocks South that no one seems to be concerned about.
There is no evidence that stop signs slow overall traffic
speed either.
Irritated drivers just accelerate faster and speed between
them to compensate.
Some have argued they resent having to stop at a red light
with no one else around, yet somehow blindly accept stopping for a stop sign
from all directions all of the time.Β Wow, Iβd rather take my chances on the
green any day.Β In addition a stoplight gives you
information far in advance of an intersection.Β Even if Iβm not lucky enough to
hit the green, I just might be able to
slow my speed many blocks in advance to prevent stopping at all.Β More
information = more options.
Traffic on a road is like water in a pipe.Β You would never consider clogging
your own
pipes on purpose, why would any sane person do that to the road?
If you live in our neighborhood and really miss traffic
jams, you can always visit downtown.
Is it possible that stoplight may be old technology and
needs an upgrade or risk failure? These upgrades can cost a couple hundred
grand when the government is involved; a stop sign costs 500 bucks.
Maybe we could compromise.Β I might be Ok with using the lights during peak
hours and forcing them
to blink red during off hours. You don't really have that option with stop
signs.
In conclusion this 4 way stop increases overall congestion,
wastes gas, and reduces pedestrian\bicycle and side street safety. I can't
imagine why anyone would think Hmmm, that's a fantastic idea.
On Monday, May 19, 2014 8:26 PM, Bob Friedman <<email obscured>> wrote:
Perhaps a solution worth trying is to have the full lights working during the
morning rush hour and just before school let's out until maybe 7 during the
school week.Β At the other time slots the lights blink Red for both
directions.Β A much better warning to drivers to slow down and stop than having
a stop sign on the curb.Β Study this idea for a year before spending a lot of
money to remove the lights.
Bob Friedman
Bob Friedman Robert M. Friedman
About/contact Bob Friedman Robert M. Friedman:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/5yaEEQoUvlFS8gLNmTO9V7
View full topic:
Β http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Tze7Ngh2V9WcbPOWz1ezj
* Want to connect great ideas across communities?
Β Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
around managing intersectionsafety
while improving operational efficiency. It should not be how to control the
vehicle speed of others, as if we just popped out of a George Orwell novel.
A 4-way stop sign at a busy intersection not only wastes
everyoneβs time and gas,
it will increase our neighborhoodβs carbon footprint that
could upset Al Gore.Β And it definitely
encourages traffic to drive through more narrow and parked-car filled side
streets to avoid it, putting everyone who lives there at greater risk.
Whenever you replace a light with a 4 way sign at a busy
intersection you lose a significant margin of safety especially for bikers and
pedestrians.Β This is not conjecture or
merely my opinion, just simple logic folks.
For all those who live nearby and have no fear for their
lives, go walk or bike across that intersection when it's backed up 10 cars in
all directions.Β Put your life in the
hands of 4 drivers of which 2 are irritated.Β So you all stare at each other
with indecision, then someone waves you
across putting you in grave danger cause they have no control over the other 3
drivers, some of which might not even see you crossing.
A stoplight is quite simply a higher form of traffic control
over a 4 way sign, which is far more chaotic and primitive. A roundabout would
be preferred over a 4 way stop, assuming Americans could learn to use them.
A stoplight is also a more efficient method for the movement
of traffic.Β If you donβt believe me
just imagine for a microsecond every light on Hiawatha replaced with a 4 way
stop.
Part of this argument boils down to how busy the
intersection is.Β One could argue it was
busy enough for the city to install the light in the first place, and Iβll bet
traffic hasnβt decreased since that decision was made.Β There are businesses on
all 4 corners.Β One could also argue itβs far busier than
the stoplight 2 blocks South that no one seems to be concerned about.
There is no evidence that stop signs slow overall traffic
speed either.
Irritated drivers just accelerate faster and speed between
them to compensate.
Some have argued they resent having to stop at a red light
with no one else around, yet somehow blindly accept stopping for a stop sign
from all directions all of the time.Β Wow, Iβd rather take my chances on the
green any day.Β In addition a stoplight gives you
information far in advance of an intersection.Β Even if Iβm not lucky enough to
hit the green, I just might be able to
slow my speed many blocks in advance to prevent stopping at all.Β More
information = more options.
Traffic on a road is like water in a pipe.Β You would never consider clogging
your own
pipes on purpose, why would any sane person do that to the road?
If you live in our neighborhood and really miss traffic
jams, you can always visit downtown.
Is it possible that stoplight may be old technology and
needs an upgrade or risk failure? These upgrades can cost a couple hundred
grand when the government is involved; a stop sign costs 500 bucks.
Maybe we could compromise.Β I might be Ok with using the lights during peak
hours and forcing them
to blink red during off hours. You don't really have that option with stop
signs.
In conclusion this 4 way stop increases overall congestion,
wastes gas, and reduces pedestrian\bicycle and side street safety. I can't
imagine why anyone would think Hmmm, that's a fantastic idea.
On Monday, May 19, 2014 8:26 PM, Bob Friedman <<email obscured>> wrote:
Perhaps a solution worth trying is to have the full lights working during the
morning rush hour and just before school let's out until maybe 7 during the
school week.Β At the other time slots the lights blink Red for both
directions.Β A much better warning to drivers to slow down and stop than having
a stop sign on the curb.Β Study this idea for a year before spending a lot of
money to remove the lights.
Bob Friedman
Bob Friedman Robert M. Friedman
About/contact Bob Friedman Robert M. Friedman:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/5yaEEQoUvlFS8gLNmTO9V7
View full topic:
Β http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4Tze7Ngh2V9WcbPOWz1ezj
* Want to connect great ideas across communities?
Β Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
Here is what I have shared with 311....
This is an interesting study, and I do not care either way. Except, I do care
about the cars which speed between Cedar and 28th Ave South on 41st Street
East.
I live North of 41st Street East on 23rd Avenue South. My son and I have to
cross an extremely busy 41st Street East when we walk to Hiawatha Park. Too
many times, vehicle careen both directions and I find crossing with a 5 year
old sometimes problematic. I hate to think of him crossing that street by
himself.
There are marked pedestrian crossings, yet I often see drivers ignore the
pedestrian standing in the crosswalk. I would actually prefer a 4 way stop
sign at 41st and 23rd or somewhere else midway between the marked pedestrian
crossings. This would help calm traffic without having to allocate police
resources for traffic enforcement.
Sincerely,
Steven Frankeberger
This is an interesting study, and I do not care either way. Except, I do care
about the cars which speed between Cedar and 28th Ave South on 41st Street
East.
I live North of 41st Street East on 23rd Avenue South. My son and I have to
cross an extremely busy 41st Street East when we walk to Hiawatha Park. Too
many times, vehicle careen both directions and I find crossing with a 5 year
old sometimes problematic. I hate to think of him crossing that street by
himself.
There are marked pedestrian crossings, yet I often see drivers ignore the
pedestrian standing in the crosswalk. I would actually prefer a 4 way stop
sign at 41st and 23rd or somewhere else midway between the marked pedestrian
crossings. This would help calm traffic without having to allocate police
resources for traffic enforcement.
Sincerely,
Steven Frankeberger
I too prefer the stoplight. I've noticed I've had a lot of trouble walking
across 28th Ave at 40th - just north of Roosevelt. There's a steady stream of
cars - with rarely enough of a gap to get my boys across to the library. With
the stoplight, you might need to wait a minute to get across, but never felt we
needed to rush across the street.
across 28th Ave at 40th - just north of Roosevelt. There's a steady stream of
cars - with rarely enough of a gap to get my boys across to the library. With
the stoplight, you might need to wait a minute to get across, but never felt we
needed to rush across the street.
well said Mike, did you forward your thoughts to 311?
Mike's and Bob's suggestion of having the light function during morning and
evening rush hour only, while blinking red the rest of the time (as a four-way
stop), has some merit.
I do find it troubling that there are unintended consequences like speeding
traffic on 41st Street (I suspect this was a problem already) and it is harder
to cross 28th at 40th. Maybe there needs to be a four-way stop sign there.
Think about the example of walking with your kids to the library - people of
all ages approach the library from all directions, some on foot, some in a car.
Even those who drive may have to cross the street from their parking space. Our
streets should be safe for all people to cross safely. A combination of traffic
enforcement, public safety awareness, curb bumpouts, better crosswalk markings,
and different traffic controls are all things that we should be working
towards, and indeed the SENA BDT is.
We need to be making decisions that don't acquiesce to the car. Allowing high
speeds for fear of making drivers mad is not good decisionmaking. Our
collective goal should be a neighborhood (and city) where people age 8 to 80
feel safe walking our sidewalks and crossing our streets. The 42nd Street and
28th Avenue intersection is an important one, but it is just one of hundreds
where people of all ages should feel comfortable crossing and not fear being
down by a speeding car.
To use the water in the pipe analogy, if too much water is flowing too quickly
through the pipe, I'd prefer that we turn the faucet down a little to reduce
the flow, otherwise we risk a flood.
evening rush hour only, while blinking red the rest of the time (as a four-way
stop), has some merit.
I do find it troubling that there are unintended consequences like speeding
traffic on 41st Street (I suspect this was a problem already) and it is harder
to cross 28th at 40th. Maybe there needs to be a four-way stop sign there.
Think about the example of walking with your kids to the library - people of
all ages approach the library from all directions, some on foot, some in a car.
Even those who drive may have to cross the street from their parking space. Our
streets should be safe for all people to cross safely. A combination of traffic
enforcement, public safety awareness, curb bumpouts, better crosswalk markings,
and different traffic controls are all things that we should be working
towards, and indeed the SENA BDT is.
We need to be making decisions that don't acquiesce to the car. Allowing high
speeds for fear of making drivers mad is not good decisionmaking. Our
collective goal should be a neighborhood (and city) where people age 8 to 80
feel safe walking our sidewalks and crossing our streets. The 42nd Street and
28th Avenue intersection is an important one, but it is just one of hundreds
where people of all ages should feel comfortable crossing and not fear being
down by a speeding car.
To use the water in the pipe analogy, if too much water is flowing too quickly
through the pipe, I'd prefer that we turn the faucet down a little to reduce
the flow, otherwise we risk a flood.
I agree.
Yet the businesses along those streets depend on more cars going down the
street. If there is a stop sign at 28th and 42nd that backs up every morning,
I'm going to take 38th to work and thus would be less likely to go by Baker's
Wife and pick up treats for my "coworkers" when I smell the delicious smells
from the bakery as I'm driving by.
I walk in our neighborhood, but I also drive in my neighborhood and shop in my
neighborhood. I'd like to think there is a way for them all to be reasonably
positive experiences.
> From: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 02:44:48 +1200
>
> Mike's and Bob's suggestion of having the light function during morning and
evening rush hour only, while blinking red the rest of the time (as a four-way
stop), has some merit.
>
> I do find it troubling that there are unintended consequences like speeding
traffic on 41st Street (I suspect this was a problem already) and it is harder
to cross 28th at 40th. Maybe there needs to be a four-way stop sign there.
>
> Think about the example of walking with your kids to the library - people of
all ages approach the library from all directions, some on foot, some in a car.
Even those who drive may have to cross the street from their parking space. Our
streets should be safe for all people to cross safely. A combination of traffic
enforcement, public safety awareness, curb bumpouts, better crosswalk markings,
and different traffic controls are all things that we should be working
towards, and indeed the SENA BDT is.
>
> We need to be making decisions that don't acquiesce to the car. Allowing high
speeds for fear of making drivers mad is not good decisionmaking. Our
collective goal should be a neighborhood (and city) where people age 8 to 80
feel safe walking our sidewalks and crossing our streets. The 42nd Street and
28th Avenue intersection is an important one, but it is just one of hundreds
where people of all ages should feel comfortable crossing and not fear being
down by a speeding car.
>
> To use the water in the pipe analogy, if too much water is flowing too
quickly through the pipe, I'd prefer that we turn the faucet down a little to
reduce the flow, otherwise we risk a flood.
> Sam Newberg
>
> About/contact Sam Newberg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sam
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/51notpckmDJ9ERkgf2PYLA
>
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> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
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Yet the businesses along those streets depend on more cars going down the
street. If there is a stop sign at 28th and 42nd that backs up every morning,
I'm going to take 38th to work and thus would be less likely to go by Baker's
Wife and pick up treats for my "coworkers" when I smell the delicious smells
from the bakery as I'm driving by.
I walk in our neighborhood, but I also drive in my neighborhood and shop in my
neighborhood. I'd like to think there is a way for them all to be reasonably
positive experiences.
> From: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 02:44:48 +1200
>
> Mike's and Bob's suggestion of having the light function during morning and
evening rush hour only, while blinking red the rest of the time (as a four-way
stop), has some merit.
>
> I do find it troubling that there are unintended consequences like speeding
traffic on 41st Street (I suspect this was a problem already) and it is harder
to cross 28th at 40th. Maybe there needs to be a four-way stop sign there.
>
> Think about the example of walking with your kids to the library - people of
all ages approach the library from all directions, some on foot, some in a car.
Even those who drive may have to cross the street from their parking space. Our
streets should be safe for all people to cross safely. A combination of traffic
enforcement, public safety awareness, curb bumpouts, better crosswalk markings,
and different traffic controls are all things that we should be working
towards, and indeed the SENA BDT is.
>
> We need to be making decisions that don't acquiesce to the car. Allowing high
speeds for fear of making drivers mad is not good decisionmaking. Our
collective goal should be a neighborhood (and city) where people age 8 to 80
feel safe walking our sidewalks and crossing our streets. The 42nd Street and
28th Avenue intersection is an important one, but it is just one of hundreds
where people of all ages should feel comfortable crossing and not fear being
down by a speeding car.
>
> To use the water in the pipe analogy, if too much water is flowing too
quickly through the pipe, I'd prefer that we turn the faucet down a little to
reduce the flow, otherwise we risk a flood.
> Sam Newberg
>
> About/contact Sam Newberg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sam
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/51notpckmDJ9ERkgf2PYLA
>
> * Want to connect great ideas across communities?
> Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
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I think it's fine the way it is on 42nd, and I would not change that. I called
the city years ago and asked for the no turn on red to be removed. HOWEVER a
green flashing light on 28th meeting an amber/red flashing light on 44th would
be great, WITH a ped button that turns the green light red so we can cross to
the park/home.
Vancouver BC does this and it works really well in the neighbourhoods for
people and for traffic.
My 2 cents.
-Laura Hansen
> On May 20, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Dana Tuss <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I agree.
> Yet the businesses along those streets depend on more cars going down the
street. If there is a stop sign at 28th and 42nd that backs up every morning,
I'm going to take 38th to work and thus would be less likely to go by Baker's
Wife and pick up treats for my "coworkers" when I smell the delicious smells
from the bakery as I'm driving by.
> I walk in our neighborhood, but I also drive in my neighborhood and shop in
my neighborhood. I'd like to think there is a way for them all to be reasonably
positive experiences.
>> From: <email obscured>
>> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 02:44:48 +1200
>>
>> Mike's and Bob's suggestion of having the light function during morning and
evening rush hour only, while blinking red the rest of the time (as a four-way
stop), has some merit.
>>
>> I do find it troubling that there are unintended consequences like speeding
traffic on 41st Street (I suspect this was a problem already) and it is harder
to cross 28th at 40th. Maybe there needs to be a four-way stop sign there.
>>
>> Think about the example of walking with your kids to the library - people of
all ages approach the library from all directions, some on foot, some in a car.
Even those who drive may have to cross the street from their parking space. Our
streets should be safe for all people to cross safely. A combination of traffic
enforcement, public safety awareness, curb bumpouts, better crosswalk markings,
and different traffic controls are all things that we should be working
towards, and indeed the SENA BDT is.
>>
>> We need to be making decisions that don't acquiesce to the car. Allowing
high speeds for fear of making drivers mad is not good decisionmaking. Our
collective goal should be a neighborhood (and city) where people age 8 to 80
feel safe walking our sidewalks and crossing our streets. The 42nd Street and
28th Avenue intersection is an important one, but it is just one of hundreds
where people of all ages should feel comfortable crossing and not fear being
down by a speeding car.
>>
>> To use the water in the pipe analogy, if too much water is flowing too
quickly through the pipe, I'd prefer that we turn the faucet down a little to
reduce the flow, otherwise we risk a flood.
>> Sam Newberg
>>
>> About/contact Sam Newberg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sam
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/51notpckmDJ9ERkgf2PYLA
>>
>> * Want to connect great ideas across communities?
>> Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
>>
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>
> Dana Tuss
> Standish Ericsson, Minneapolis
> About/contact Dana Tuss:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1kvQWE1HdrBdSvQ5cY0YBd
the city years ago and asked for the no turn on red to be removed. HOWEVER a
green flashing light on 28th meeting an amber/red flashing light on 44th would
be great, WITH a ped button that turns the green light red so we can cross to
the park/home.
Vancouver BC does this and it works really well in the neighbourhoods for
people and for traffic.
My 2 cents.
-Laura Hansen
> On May 20, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Dana Tuss <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I agree.
> Yet the businesses along those streets depend on more cars going down the
street. If there is a stop sign at 28th and 42nd that backs up every morning,
I'm going to take 38th to work and thus would be less likely to go by Baker's
Wife and pick up treats for my "coworkers" when I smell the delicious smells
from the bakery as I'm driving by.
> I walk in our neighborhood, but I also drive in my neighborhood and shop in
my neighborhood. I'd like to think there is a way for them all to be reasonably
positive experiences.
>> From: <email obscured>
>> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 02:44:48 +1200
>>
>> Mike's and Bob's suggestion of having the light function during morning and
evening rush hour only, while blinking red the rest of the time (as a four-way
stop), has some merit.
>>
>> I do find it troubling that there are unintended consequences like speeding
traffic on 41st Street (I suspect this was a problem already) and it is harder
to cross 28th at 40th. Maybe there needs to be a four-way stop sign there.
>>
>> Think about the example of walking with your kids to the library - people of
all ages approach the library from all directions, some on foot, some in a car.
Even those who drive may have to cross the street from their parking space. Our
streets should be safe for all people to cross safely. A combination of traffic
enforcement, public safety awareness, curb bumpouts, better crosswalk markings,
and different traffic controls are all things that we should be working
towards, and indeed the SENA BDT is.
>>
>> We need to be making decisions that don't acquiesce to the car. Allowing
high speeds for fear of making drivers mad is not good decisionmaking. Our
collective goal should be a neighborhood (and city) where people age 8 to 80
feel safe walking our sidewalks and crossing our streets. The 42nd Street and
28th Avenue intersection is an important one, but it is just one of hundreds
where people of all ages should feel comfortable crossing and not fear being
down by a speeding car.
>>
>> To use the water in the pipe analogy, if too much water is flowing too
quickly through the pipe, I'd prefer that we turn the faucet down a little to
reduce the flow, otherwise we risk a flood.
>> Sam Newberg
>>
>> About/contact Sam Newberg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sam
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/51notpckmDJ9ERkgf2PYLA
>>
>> * Want to connect great ideas across communities?
>> Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
>>
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>
> Dana Tuss
> Standish Ericsson, Minneapolis
> About/contact Dana Tuss:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1kvQWE1HdrBdSvQ5cY0YBd
As a pedestrian, I've found it increasingly difficult to cross 42nd at 26th
Avenue south with the new stop sign arrangement at 42nd & 28th. It's changed
the traffic flow so there's no longer a clear break to cross. And in spite of
the crosswalks, drivers don't stop.
A stop sign can give the false impression that an intersection isn't as busy as
it actually is, and I've observed more cyclists failing to even slow down at
28th & 42nd since the stoplights were turned off. Without going into the
legality of running traffic signals of any type, I am concerned that using stop
signs instead of a light could be downplaying the safety and sheer volume of
multimodal road users at that intersection.
Avenue south with the new stop sign arrangement at 42nd & 28th. It's changed
the traffic flow so there's no longer a clear break to cross. And in spite of
the crosswalks, drivers don't stop.
A stop sign can give the false impression that an intersection isn't as busy as
it actually is, and I've observed more cyclists failing to even slow down at
28th & 42nd since the stoplights were turned off. Without going into the
legality of running traffic signals of any type, I am concerned that using stop
signs instead of a light could be downplaying the safety and sheer volume of
multimodal road users at that intersection.
I just about got killed crossing the street at this intersection last weekend.
Removing the stoplights is a really really bad idea.
Removing the stoplights is a really really bad idea.
Yes, in many ways, I agree with Sam. Especially with the trail crossing.
However, I also echo the comments about the removal of the light seemingly not
aiding pedestrians, at the intersection and at other intersections along 42nd
Street.
Vince Tuss
4100 block of Standish
Standish
However, I also echo the comments about the removal of the light seemingly not
aiding pedestrians, at the intersection and at other intersections along 42nd
Street.
Vince Tuss
4100 block of Standish
Standish
I totally agree! Who had this crazy idea?????????
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Teresa DeGregorio <<email obscured>
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Teresa DeGregorio <<email obscured>
I'm on the SENA BDT and we've been working for a long time on many different
projects, including those to slow traffic and improve pedestrian safety. We
have a good relationship with the city and county over the years, and since
taking office, Andrew Johnson has been very willing to help us push some
projects "down the road," if you will.
The 30-day study of traffic light removal is but one of many projects we're
working on, and it happens to be what rose to the top at this time. Other ideas
we have for that corner include boulevard/street trees, painted crosswalks, an
on-street bicycle rack, and hopefully a new tenant at the southeast corner.
We've been lobbying the county for slower speeds on 42nd Street and better
pedestrian safety, and have succeeded with crosswalks at 26th and 19th Avenues.
The budget for resurfacing 42nd included those things (and the bike lane
striping) but much more can be done and the county needs to hear that message.
We lobbied to restore on-street parking lost to the Riverlake trail at 42nd and
31st, and are still working to accommodate parking, bike lane and traffic in
both directions. We've worked with the city and county to improve crosswalks
across Hiawatha, and that project is underway as we speak. The Minnehaha Creek
trail crossing of 28th is another priority we are making progress on.
The SENA BDT seeks to balance the needs of businesses, development and
transportation to make our neighborhood a better place. We understand every
project has pro and cons, and I credit the committee for being very thoughtful
on these matters. We will continue to push for changes that improve pedestrian
safety, among other things.
For now we need to let this stop sign study play out and see what the data
says.
projects, including those to slow traffic and improve pedestrian safety. We
have a good relationship with the city and county over the years, and since
taking office, Andrew Johnson has been very willing to help us push some
projects "down the road," if you will.
The 30-day study of traffic light removal is but one of many projects we're
working on, and it happens to be what rose to the top at this time. Other ideas
we have for that corner include boulevard/street trees, painted crosswalks, an
on-street bicycle rack, and hopefully a new tenant at the southeast corner.
We've been lobbying the county for slower speeds on 42nd Street and better
pedestrian safety, and have succeeded with crosswalks at 26th and 19th Avenues.
The budget for resurfacing 42nd included those things (and the bike lane
striping) but much more can be done and the county needs to hear that message.
We lobbied to restore on-street parking lost to the Riverlake trail at 42nd and
31st, and are still working to accommodate parking, bike lane and traffic in
both directions. We've worked with the city and county to improve crosswalks
across Hiawatha, and that project is underway as we speak. The Minnehaha Creek
trail crossing of 28th is another priority we are making progress on.
The SENA BDT seeks to balance the needs of businesses, development and
transportation to make our neighborhood a better place. We understand every
project has pro and cons, and I credit the committee for being very thoughtful
on these matters. We will continue to push for changes that improve pedestrian
safety, among other things.
For now we need to let this stop sign study play out and see what the data
says.
I don't think we should have to sit and wait for the study to play out. The way
the stop signs affected traffic have caused a clear and present danger to
residence trying to cross 42nd. Last summer things got better with the
addition of the crosswalks on 42nd at 26th (and another one I forget which
street) but as others have said the stop sign chops traffic up to a point that
there is no clear break and nobody want to step out in front of a car
travelling 30mph and pray they stop whether they are alone or with kids.
This is a very busy intersection with lots of traffic that isn't what I would
call normal with the Bakery, Car repair shop, a high school and bus stop all
adding their own pieces of this problem. All this time they are looking at
things before Buster's reopens which will again add significant traffic to the
area. Unfortunately there is not sufficient room to add a left turn lane. The
way it is set up is good in my book.
Also the addition of a bike rack at that corner would just add to the problem
just as it has contributed to problems with back up of traffic at 38th and 28th
Ave.
So to I guess my opinion is the 4 way stop study was short sited from the onset
and has been a waste of taxpayer money. End it now and admit it was a dumb
idea.
the stop signs affected traffic have caused a clear and present danger to
residence trying to cross 42nd. Last summer things got better with the
addition of the crosswalks on 42nd at 26th (and another one I forget which
street) but as others have said the stop sign chops traffic up to a point that
there is no clear break and nobody want to step out in front of a car
travelling 30mph and pray they stop whether they are alone or with kids.
This is a very busy intersection with lots of traffic that isn't what I would
call normal with the Bakery, Car repair shop, a high school and bus stop all
adding their own pieces of this problem. All this time they are looking at
things before Buster's reopens which will again add significant traffic to the
area. Unfortunately there is not sufficient room to add a left turn lane. The
way it is set up is good in my book.
Also the addition of a bike rack at that corner would just add to the problem
just as it has contributed to problems with back up of traffic at 38th and 28th
Ave.
So to I guess my opinion is the 4 way stop study was short sited from the onset
and has been a waste of taxpayer money. End it now and admit it was a dumb
idea.
Thanks, Sam, for all the good work that you and all the SENA folks do for their
neighborhood. We've certainly benefited from the past work, especially with the
crosswalks on 42nd. But hhat are your thoughts now about the effectiveness of
the traffic study now that 42nd is closed at the Hiawatha tracks, making it
inaccessible from Hiawatha? Myself, I wonder if it will skew the data, with
traffic moved to 38th, 46th and the Parkway?
Thanks again,
Vince Tuss
4100 block Standish
Standish
neighborhood. We've certainly benefited from the past work, especially with the
crosswalks on 42nd. But hhat are your thoughts now about the effectiveness of
the traffic study now that 42nd is closed at the Hiawatha tracks, making it
inaccessible from Hiawatha? Myself, I wonder if it will skew the data, with
traffic moved to 38th, 46th and the Parkway?
Thanks again,
Vince Tuss
4100 block Standish
Standish
The problem with the 4-way stop signs, vs the stoplight, as I see it - is at a
4-way stop, most drivers tend to focus on getting through the intersection as
fast as possible without appearing to break the law. Most of the time, that
means they don't actually stop, especially when traffic is at low to nominal
levels (i.e. non-rush hour times when cars don't back up waiting to get through
the intersection). And as much as we want to believe that everyone stops at
stop signs, it simply *does not happen* on a 100% basis.
The issues at the 42nd St crosswalk at 26th Ave are much worse, as well,
because we all know that motorists ignore crosswalks.
I agree with other sentiment that the focus should be on pedestrian safety
first and not on general lowering of speeds. All of the silly experiments with
roadway paint have proven that there's not a lot you can do to get drivers to
slow down, other than enforcement and culture change.
On a much less important level, cyclists also tend to completely ignore stop
signs more so than lights. I have observed several completely blowing through
42nd/28th, in front of waiting vehicles, completely without hesitation, since
the signal change. Being someone who rides a significant amount in the
neighborhood, as well as driving and walking, I would tend to think that
cyclists would be far more likely to stop (or at least hesitate longer) if they
knew that speeding traffic could be coming from their right or left.
4-way stop, most drivers tend to focus on getting through the intersection as
fast as possible without appearing to break the law. Most of the time, that
means they don't actually stop, especially when traffic is at low to nominal
levels (i.e. non-rush hour times when cars don't back up waiting to get through
the intersection). And as much as we want to believe that everyone stops at
stop signs, it simply *does not happen* on a 100% basis.
The issues at the 42nd St crosswalk at 26th Ave are much worse, as well,
because we all know that motorists ignore crosswalks.
I agree with other sentiment that the focus should be on pedestrian safety
first and not on general lowering of speeds. All of the silly experiments with
roadway paint have proven that there's not a lot you can do to get drivers to
slow down, other than enforcement and culture change.
On a much less important level, cyclists also tend to completely ignore stop
signs more so than lights. I have observed several completely blowing through
42nd/28th, in front of waiting vehicles, completely without hesitation, since
the signal change. Being someone who rides a significant amount in the
neighborhood, as well as driving and walking, I would tend to think that
cyclists would be far more likely to stop (or at least hesitate longer) if they
knew that speeding traffic could be coming from their right or left.
Pedestrian safety necessitates lowering speeds. Here are the rates of death for
a person getting hit by an automobile at different speeds, as reported by
multiple studies: 40 mph = 85% chance of death, 30 mph = 45% chance of death,
20 mph = 5% chance of death.
The problem isn't the speed limit, the problem is the design speed. Minnesota
state law prohibits speeds lower than 30 MPH with a few narrow exceptions (our
parkways fit under one). But enforcement doesn't work either. The strategy is
actually to build streets that cause all users to share space and interact with
each other. We've applied rural roadway design principles to urban streets -
this is known as "forgiving design." It works great for safety for cars on
rural highways, but it actually makes our neighborhoods (with urban streets)
less safe. There's less "side friction" and other attributes which cause
drivers to slow down and pay attention to each other. Slowing traffic is also
humanizing - there's more eye contact between users, whether in cars or not.
And if something does go wrong and there is a collision, it's much less likely
to be high speed and thus less likely to cause death or injury. Stoplights
encourage speeding, a narrowed cone of vision for drivers, and relatively high
speed t-bone crashes that can be deadly.
Yours in awareness of the structural violence against pedestrians & bicyclists
in Minneapolis and our dangerous-by-design roads,
Matt
a person getting hit by an automobile at different speeds, as reported by
multiple studies: 40 mph = 85% chance of death, 30 mph = 45% chance of death,
20 mph = 5% chance of death.
The problem isn't the speed limit, the problem is the design speed. Minnesota
state law prohibits speeds lower than 30 MPH with a few narrow exceptions (our
parkways fit under one). But enforcement doesn't work either. The strategy is
actually to build streets that cause all users to share space and interact with
each other. We've applied rural roadway design principles to urban streets -
this is known as "forgiving design." It works great for safety for cars on
rural highways, but it actually makes our neighborhoods (with urban streets)
less safe. There's less "side friction" and other attributes which cause
drivers to slow down and pay attention to each other. Slowing traffic is also
humanizing - there's more eye contact between users, whether in cars or not.
And if something does go wrong and there is a collision, it's much less likely
to be high speed and thus less likely to cause death or injury. Stoplights
encourage speeding, a narrowed cone of vision for drivers, and relatively high
speed t-bone crashes that can be deadly.
Yours in awareness of the structural violence against pedestrians & bicyclists
in Minneapolis and our dangerous-by-design roads,
Matt
Hi Sam - is there really a consideration of blocking off 42nd St. at Hiawatha
and not being able to go over Hiawatha? That will make all the businesses
suffer along 42st. because people will not have access to them unless they go
up to 38th which is too busy already and then have to turn on 28th St. which is
also too busy already. This is not a good thing at all.
We have been so successful at keeping businesses open on 42nd St. and Busters
is going to open again on 28th. Cutting off 42nd and putting in stop signs at
28th will just screw up public transportation, cars, pedestrians and KILL
business! The neighborhood must accept that this is a major thoroughfare and a
high functioning business node. Everyone wants local businesses to succeed,
but there are tradeoffs. If we are not able to attract people from the
surrounding areas who drive cars, ride bikes or take public transportation to
our business node, there won't be enough traffic for these businesses to make
any kind of profit. Would stop signs at 42 and Cedar, or 38th and 28th or stop
signs at intersections on Hiawatha be a good idea - NO - who would even think
of that. 28th St. is like Cedar - it is used to access Hwy 62 and Cedar Ave to
the Mall of America and Bloomington.
Has the SENA business committee talked to all of these retailers? If they did
what was the consensus of the businesses in that node? I used to be co-chair of
business committee about 10 years ago when we were struggling to get small
business to move into the neighborhood. That would have been the time to make
changes, when LRT and all of the feeder busses to the LRT stations were being
planned and transportation maps being changed. We knew then that LRT was
coming down Hiawatha.
My final comment, as a property taxpayer and business owner I would be very
angry to see all the money, time and planning we did and how successful it has
become even with the Great Recession to go down the drain! That is just not
logical. Thanks for listening. Josephine
and not being able to go over Hiawatha? That will make all the businesses
suffer along 42st. because people will not have access to them unless they go
up to 38th which is too busy already and then have to turn on 28th St. which is
also too busy already. This is not a good thing at all.
We have been so successful at keeping businesses open on 42nd St. and Busters
is going to open again on 28th. Cutting off 42nd and putting in stop signs at
28th will just screw up public transportation, cars, pedestrians and KILL
business! The neighborhood must accept that this is a major thoroughfare and a
high functioning business node. Everyone wants local businesses to succeed,
but there are tradeoffs. If we are not able to attract people from the
surrounding areas who drive cars, ride bikes or take public transportation to
our business node, there won't be enough traffic for these businesses to make
any kind of profit. Would stop signs at 42 and Cedar, or 38th and 28th or stop
signs at intersections on Hiawatha be a good idea - NO - who would even think
of that. 28th St. is like Cedar - it is used to access Hwy 62 and Cedar Ave to
the Mall of America and Bloomington.
Has the SENA business committee talked to all of these retailers? If they did
what was the consensus of the businesses in that node? I used to be co-chair of
business committee about 10 years ago when we were struggling to get small
business to move into the neighborhood. That would have been the time to make
changes, when LRT and all of the feeder busses to the LRT stations were being
planned and transportation maps being changed. We knew then that LRT was
coming down Hiawatha.
My final comment, as a property taxpayer and business owner I would be very
angry to see all the money, time and planning we did and how successful it has
become even with the Great Recession to go down the drain! That is just not
logical. Thanks for listening. Josephine
Where did you see mention of urging off 42nd at Hiawatha?
> On May 21, 2014, at 2:55 PM, "Josephine Vaughn"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Hi Sam - is there really a consideration of blocking off 42nd St. at Hiawatha
and not being able to go over Hiawatha? That will make all the businesses
suffer along 42st. because people will not have access to them unless they go
up to 38th which is too busy already and then have to turn on 28th St. which is
also too busy already. This is not a good thing at all.
>
> We have been so successful at keeping businesses open on 42nd St. and Busters
is going to open again on 28th. Cutting off 42nd and putting in stop signs at
28th will just screw up public transportation, cars, pedestrians and KILL
business! The neighborhood must accept that this is a major thoroughfare and a
high functioning business node. Everyone wants local businesses to succeed,
but there are tradeoffs. If we are not able to attract people from the
surrounding areas who drive cars, ride bikes or take public transportation to
our business node, there won't be enough traffic for these businesses to make
any kind of profit. Would stop signs at 42 and Cedar, or 38th and 28th or stop
signs at intersections on Hiawatha be a good idea - NO - who would even think
of that. 28th St. is like Cedar - it is used to access Hwy 62 and Cedar Ave to
the Mall of America and Bloomington.
>
> Has the SENA business committee talked to all of these retailers? If they
did what was the consensus of the businesses in that node? I used to be
co-chair of business committee about 10 years ago when we were struggling to
get small business to move into the neighborhood. That would have been the
time to make changes, when LRT and all of the feeder busses to the LRT stations
were being planned and transportation maps being changed. We knew then that
LRT was coming down Hiawatha.
>
> My final comment, as a property taxpayer and business owner I would be very
angry to see all the money, time and planning we did and how successful it has
become even with the Great Recession to go down the drain! That is just not
logical. Thanks for listening. Josephine
>
>
>
>
> Josephine Vaughn
> <email obscured>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Sam Newberg
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:17 AM
> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>
> I'm on the SENA BDT and we've been working for a long time on many different
projects, including those to slow traffic and improve pedestrian safety. We
have a good relationship with the city and county over the years, and since
taking office, Andrew Johnson has been very willing to help us push some
projects "down the road," if you will.
>
> The 30-day study of traffic light removal is but one of many projects we're
working on, and it happens to be what rose to the top at this time. Other ideas
we have for that corner include boulevard/street trees, painted crosswalks, an
on-street bicycle rack, and hopefully a new tenant at the southeast corner.
>
> We've been lobbying the county for slower speeds on 42nd Street and better
pedestrian safety, and have succeeded with crosswalks at 26th and 19th Avenues.
The budget for resurfacing 42nd included those things (and the bike lane
striping) but much more can be done and the county needs to hear that message.
>
> We lobbied to restore on-street parking lost to the Riverlake trail at 42nd
and 31st, and are still working to accommodate parking, bike lane and traffic
in both directions. We've worked with the city and county to improve crosswalks
across Hiawatha, and that project is underway as we speak. The Minnehaha Creek
trail crossing of 28th is another priority we are making progress on.
>
> The SENA BDT seeks to balance the needs of businesses, development and
transportation to make our neighborhood a better place. We understand every
project has pro and cons, and I credit the committee for being very thoughtful
on these matters. We will continue to push for changes that improve pedestrian
safety, among other things.
>
> For now we need to let this stop sign study play out and see what the data
says.
> Sam Newberg
>
> About/contact Sam Newberg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sam
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7mdiRegxb8nmvt6gkf0AaA
>
> * Want to connect great ideas across communities?
> Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)
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>
> Josephine Vaughn
> Standish, Minneapolis
> About/contact Josephine Vaughn:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/2fa7ozAz9c281PdbJf9YN1
> On May 21, 2014, at 2:55 PM, "Josephine Vaughn"
<<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Hi Sam - is there really a consideration of blocking off 42nd St. at Hiawatha
and not being able to go over Hiawatha? That will make all the businesses
suffer along 42st. because people will not have access to them unless they go
up to 38th which is too busy already and then have to turn on 28th St. which is
also too busy already. This is not a good thing at all.
>
> We have been so successful at keeping businesses open on 42nd St. and Busters
is going to open again on 28th. Cutting off 42nd and putting in stop signs at
28th will just screw up public transportation, cars, pedestrians and KILL
business! The neighborhood must accept that this is a major thoroughfare and a
high functioning business node. Everyone wants local businesses to succeed,
but there are tradeoffs. If we are not able to attract people from the
surrounding areas who drive cars, ride bikes or take public transportation to
our business node, there won't be enough traffic for these businesses to make
any kind of profit. Would stop signs at 42 and Cedar, or 38th and 28th or stop
signs at intersections on Hiawatha be a good idea - NO - who would even think
of that. 28th St. is like Cedar - it is used to access Hwy 62 and Cedar Ave to
the Mall of America and Bloomington.
>
> Has the SENA business committee talked to all of these retailers? If they
did what was the consensus of the businesses in that node? I used to be
co-chair of business committee about 10 years ago when we were struggling to
get small business to move into the neighborhood. That would have been the
time to make changes, when LRT and all of the feeder busses to the LRT stations
were being planned and transportation maps being changed. We knew then that
LRT was coming down Hiawatha.
>
> My final comment, as a property taxpayer and business owner I would be very
angry to see all the money, time and planning we did and how successful it has
become even with the Great Recession to go down the drain! That is just not
logical. Thanks for listening. Josephine
>
>
>
>
> Josephine Vaughn
> <email obscured>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
[mailto:mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org] On Behalf Of Sam Newberg
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:17 AM
> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>
> I'm on the SENA BDT and we've been working for a long time on many different
projects, including those to slow traffic and improve pedestrian safety. We
have a good relationship with the city and county over the years, and since
taking office, Andrew Johnson has been very willing to help us push some
projects "down the road," if you will.
>
> The 30-day study of traffic light removal is but one of many projects we're
working on, and it happens to be what rose to the top at this time. Other ideas
we have for that corner include boulevard/street trees, painted crosswalks, an
on-street bicycle rack, and hopefully a new tenant at the southeast corner.
>
> We've been lobbying the county for slower speeds on 42nd Street and better
pedestrian safety, and have succeeded with crosswalks at 26th and 19th Avenues.
The budget for resurfacing 42nd included those things (and the bike lane
striping) but much more can be done and the county needs to hear that message.
>
> We lobbied to restore on-street parking lost to the Riverlake trail at 42nd
and 31st, and are still working to accommodate parking, bike lane and traffic
in both directions. We've worked with the city and county to improve crosswalks
across Hiawatha, and that project is underway as we speak. The Minnehaha Creek
trail crossing of 28th is another priority we are making progress on.
>
> The SENA BDT seeks to balance the needs of businesses, development and
transportation to make our neighborhood a better place. We understand every
project has pro and cons, and I credit the committee for being very thoughtful
on these matters. We will continue to push for changes that improve pedestrian
safety, among other things.
>
> For now we need to let this stop sign study play out and see what the data
says.
> Sam Newberg
>
> About/contact Sam Newberg: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sam
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/7mdiRegxb8nmvt6gkf0AaA
>
> * Want to connect great ideas across communities?
> Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no quotes)
> Forum Home: http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/mpls-staneric
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Need help?
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>
>
> Josephine Vaughn
> Standish, Minneapolis
> About/contact Josephine Vaughn:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/2fa7ozAz9c281PdbJf9YN1
The temporary closing of 42nd Street at Hiawatha has nothing to do with the
stop sign test at 42nd and 28th. The 42nd Street closure at Hiawatha is for the
pedestrian crosswalk improvements - 38th Street was closed for a couple of days
recently, and I'm sure it will reopen soon if not already. See here for info -
http://www.minnehaha-hiawatha.com/crossings
The closure could very well could skew the data, so it is my hope that the stop
sign test plays out for the 30 day period so we can better consider the pros
and cons, data and opinion.
stop sign test at 42nd and 28th. The 42nd Street closure at Hiawatha is for the
pedestrian crosswalk improvements - 38th Street was closed for a couple of days
recently, and I'm sure it will reopen soon if not already. See here for info -
http://www.minnehaha-hiawatha.com/crossings
The closure could very well could skew the data, so it is my hope that the stop
sign test plays out for the 30 day period so we can better consider the pros
and cons, data and opinion.
To Matt's point and Andrew's (and others) concern, the crosswalk at 26th Avenue
(and 19th) is an improvement, but the street is still 44 feet wide in those
locations (and every other crossing along 42nd). Whether there is a stop sign
or a light at 28th, the "forgiving design" of the street fails to encourage
slower speeds along the street (at 26th or elsewhere). And as Matt correctly
points out, speed is the most dangerous thing about our streets.
If you think speeds are too high on 42nd Street, tell 311 and the County, and
help SENA push for physical elements like bumpouts, center medians and other
things to facilitate slower speed and safer crossing.
(and 19th) is an improvement, but the street is still 44 feet wide in those
locations (and every other crossing along 42nd). Whether there is a stop sign
or a light at 28th, the "forgiving design" of the street fails to encourage
slower speeds along the street (at 26th or elsewhere). And as Matt correctly
points out, speed is the most dangerous thing about our streets.
If you think speeds are too high on 42nd Street, tell 311 and the County, and
help SENA push for physical elements like bumpouts, center medians and other
things to facilitate slower speed and safer crossing.
I'd like to re-iterate Sam's point that if you think speeds are too high on
42nd St, tell 311 and the County and help SENA push for physical elements like
bump-outs, center medians and other things to facilitate slower speed and safer
crossings. To be crystal clear, SENA BDT tried for ages to do something,
anything, to calm traffic speeds along 42nd St. I think we started talking
about calming 42nd St officially over five years ago and unofficially many
years prior to that.
The unique paint striping and (potentially) the stop sign idea are both ideas
whose good intentions have perhaps not been completely borne out in the final
data but they are, unfortunately, about the only recourse that SENA BDT could
impact. The SENA BDT asked for physical elements that would slow down traffic
like bump-outs and center medians as part of the mill and overlay (resurfacing)
of 42nd St and as you can imagine there was neither the city/county appetite
nor city/county money to change the roads along those lines. It was not through
lack of SENA BDT effort to make smart improvements but we were hamstrung by the
realities of the economy and the city / county relationship as to what we, a
bunch of volunteers, could demand or even recommend.
The stop sign study was something recently discussed and supported by the SENA
BDT committee. It was supported in the final vote, but there was a lot of
discussion in regards to the lights already being installed and what a stop
sign controlled intersection means to everyone. But if we don't have the data
to support or deny findings, how can any smart, fiduciarily responsible
decision be made? It's never a dumb idea to collect and analyze information.
While e-democracy is a great way to share and collect information the best way
to impact decisions is to show up and volunteer your time and ideas at a SENA
committee. These committees and SENA in general have a strong ability to shape
our neighborhood along many lines, but if the only messaging that SENA receives
is after the fact via an unofficial message board it has less opportunity to
influence the decisions!
Please get involved at the granular level. You can make a difference and can
influence outcomes by being involved with SENA more efficiently than you can
influence outcomes via e-democracy. Reach out to office (at) standish (dash)
ericsson (dot) org and ask to be added to the meeting announcement lists. At
minimum, your inclusion on this list allows you to see the meeting agendas and
send in your email comments.
On behalf of the SENA BDT I would like to personally invite every poster in
this thread to the next committee meeting to have your voice heard. The BDT
committee does not want to make decision in a vacuum or an echo chamber, of
which through lack of new voices and new volunteers we have the potential to
become. We look forward to the new faces and voices.
Fair warning: SENA BDT is currently scheduled to next meet on Thursday, June
5th starting at 6:30pm.
42nd St, tell 311 and the County and help SENA push for physical elements like
bump-outs, center medians and other things to facilitate slower speed and safer
crossings. To be crystal clear, SENA BDT tried for ages to do something,
anything, to calm traffic speeds along 42nd St. I think we started talking
about calming 42nd St officially over five years ago and unofficially many
years prior to that.
The unique paint striping and (potentially) the stop sign idea are both ideas
whose good intentions have perhaps not been completely borne out in the final
data but they are, unfortunately, about the only recourse that SENA BDT could
impact. The SENA BDT asked for physical elements that would slow down traffic
like bump-outs and center medians as part of the mill and overlay (resurfacing)
of 42nd St and as you can imagine there was neither the city/county appetite
nor city/county money to change the roads along those lines. It was not through
lack of SENA BDT effort to make smart improvements but we were hamstrung by the
realities of the economy and the city / county relationship as to what we, a
bunch of volunteers, could demand or even recommend.
The stop sign study was something recently discussed and supported by the SENA
BDT committee. It was supported in the final vote, but there was a lot of
discussion in regards to the lights already being installed and what a stop
sign controlled intersection means to everyone. But if we don't have the data
to support or deny findings, how can any smart, fiduciarily responsible
decision be made? It's never a dumb idea to collect and analyze information.
While e-democracy is a great way to share and collect information the best way
to impact decisions is to show up and volunteer your time and ideas at a SENA
committee. These committees and SENA in general have a strong ability to shape
our neighborhood along many lines, but if the only messaging that SENA receives
is after the fact via an unofficial message board it has less opportunity to
influence the decisions!
Please get involved at the granular level. You can make a difference and can
influence outcomes by being involved with SENA more efficiently than you can
influence outcomes via e-democracy. Reach out to office (at) standish (dash)
ericsson (dot) org and ask to be added to the meeting announcement lists. At
minimum, your inclusion on this list allows you to see the meeting agendas and
send in your email comments.
On behalf of the SENA BDT I would like to personally invite every poster in
this thread to the next committee meeting to have your voice heard. The BDT
committee does not want to make decision in a vacuum or an echo chamber, of
which through lack of new voices and new volunteers we have the potential to
become. We look forward to the new faces and voices.
Fair warning: SENA BDT is currently scheduled to next meet on Thursday, June
5th starting at 6:30pm.
I agree with you whole heartedly Kevin!
-Laura Hansen
-Laura Hansen
I rarely chime in on these discussions, but I am forced to adamantly agree
with Kevin's appraisal as well.
jay hatch
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Laura Hansen <
with Kevin's appraisal as well.
jay hatch
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Laura Hansen <
As someone who adjusted to the switch to a four-way stop at the much
seemingly lighter trafficked 46th St. and 34th Ave intersection (it is
working), this test makes me quite uneasy about how I would navigate
this 28th and 42nd intersection with my children in hand. Too many
cars at a four way creates higher level uncertainty ... at for me.
I can say that I often use Nokomis to get on to 42nd going west, but
that is fraught with danger as cars roll through. Having a squad car
crack down on non-full stoppers would be a better way to slow folks
down safely.
Anyway, I will be far less likely to take my children through the
intersection for doughnut if this became permanent.
Now, it might make a lot of sense to add another four-way between 28th
and Cedar if the overall goal is to slow down 42nd or let the potholes
come back. :-)
Steven Clift
My personal opinion
α§
Steven Clift - http://stevenclift.com
Executive Director - http://E-Democracy.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/democracy
Tel/Text: +1.612.234.7072
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Jay Hatch <<email obscured>> wrote:
> I rarely chime in on these discussions, but I am forced to adamantly agree
> with Kevin's appraisal as well.
>
> jay hatch
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Laura Hansen <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> I agree with you whole heartedly Kevin!
>>
>>
>>
>> -Laura Hansen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Kevin Drake <<email obscured>>
>> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>>
>>
>> I don't think we should have to sit and wait for the study to play out.
>> The way the stop signs affected traffic have caused a clear and present
>> danger to residence trying to cross 42nd. Last summer things got better
>> with the addition of the crosswalks on 42nd at 26th (and another one I
>> forget which street) but as others have said the stop sign chops traffic up
>> to a point that there is no clear break and nobody want to step out in
>> front of a car travelling 30mph and pray they stop whether they are alone
>> or with kids.
>>
>> This is a very busy intersection with lots of traffic that isn't what I
>> would call normal with the Bakery, Car repair shop, a high school and bus
>> stop all adding their own pieces of this problem. All this time they are
>> looking at things before Buster's reopens which will again add significant
>> traffic to the area. Unfortunately there is not sufficient room to add a
>> left turn lane. The way it is set up is good in my book.
>>
>> Also the addition of a bike rack at that corner would just add to the
>> problem just as it has contributed to problems with back up of traffic at
>> 38th and 28th Ave.
>>
>> So to I guess my opinion is the 4 way stop study was short sited from the
>> onset and has been a waste of taxpayer money. End it now and admit it was a
>> dumb idea.
>>
>> Kevin Drake
>> Standish/Ericsson, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Kevin Drake:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4FZS73OeSlr5SeLNWz2Y1E
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5ba5dUifNbxYWEsQ23xk7h
>>
>> * Want to connect great ideas across communities?
>> Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
>>
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>> quotes)
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>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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>> Laura Hansen
>>
>> About/contact Laura Hansen: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/bigelle71
>>
>> View full topic:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6mVxaEJgvrElRMKInsWkTt
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Jay T. Hatch
> Associate Professor and H.T. Morse-Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor
> Department of Postsecondary Teaching and Learning
> College of Education and Human Development
>
> James Ford Bell Museum of Natural History Research Associate
> University of Minnesota
>
> Office phone: 612-625-9346
> FAX: 612-625-0709
>
> Hatch Jay
> Minneapolis
> About/contact Jay Hatch:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3G0DsbqhRWAmYHSjGEDplu
>
> View full topic:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3kcbmRjAgtvGQANLpj4lJw
>
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> Get digest or leave: Put "digest on" or "unsubscribe" in Subject (no
quotes)
seemingly lighter trafficked 46th St. and 34th Ave intersection (it is
working), this test makes me quite uneasy about how I would navigate
this 28th and 42nd intersection with my children in hand. Too many
cars at a four way creates higher level uncertainty ... at for me.
I can say that I often use Nokomis to get on to 42nd going west, but
that is fraught with danger as cars roll through. Having a squad car
crack down on non-full stoppers would be a better way to slow folks
down safely.
Anyway, I will be far less likely to take my children through the
intersection for doughnut if this became permanent.
Now, it might make a lot of sense to add another four-way between 28th
and Cedar if the overall goal is to slow down 42nd or let the potholes
come back. :-)
Steven Clift
My personal opinion
α§
Steven Clift - http://stevenclift.com
Executive Director - http://E-Democracy.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/democracy
Tel/Text: +1.612.234.7072
On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:40 AM, Jay Hatch <<email obscured>> wrote:
> I rarely chime in on these discussions, but I am forced to adamantly agree
> with Kevin's appraisal as well.
>
> jay hatch
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 9:17 AM, Laura Hansen <
> <email obscured>> wrote:
>
>> I agree with you whole heartedly Kevin!
>>
>>
>>
>> -Laura Hansen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Kevin Drake <<email obscured>>
>> To: mpls-staneric@forums.e-democracy.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Mpls-StanEric] Stop signs instead of lights at 42nd & 28th?
>>
>>
>> I don't think we should have to sit and wait for the study to play out.
>> The way the stop signs affected traffic have caused a clear and present
>> danger to residence trying to cross 42nd. Last summer things got better
>> with the addition of the crosswalks on 42nd at 26th (and another one I
>> forget which street) but as others have said the stop sign chops traffic up
>> to a point that there is no clear break and nobody want to step out in
>> front of a car travelling 30mph and pray they stop whether they are alone
>> or with kids.
>>
>> This is a very busy intersection with lots of traffic that isn't what I
>> would call normal with the Bakery, Car repair shop, a high school and bus
>> stop all adding their own pieces of this problem. All this time they are
>> looking at things before Buster's reopens which will again add significant
>> traffic to the area. Unfortunately there is not sufficient room to add a
>> left turn lane. The way it is set up is good in my book.
>>
>> Also the addition of a bike rack at that corner would just add to the
>> problem just as it has contributed to problems with back up of traffic at
>> 38th and 28th Ave.
>>
>> So to I guess my opinion is the 4 way stop study was short sited from the
>> onset and has been a waste of taxpayer money. End it now and admit it was a
>> dumb idea.
>>
>> Kevin Drake
>> Standish/Ericsson, Minneapolis
>> About/contact Kevin Drake:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4FZS73OeSlr5SeLNWz2Y1E
>>
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>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5ba5dUifNbxYWEsQ23xk7h
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>
>
>
> --
> Jay T. Hatch
> Associate Professor and H.T. Morse-Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor
> Department of Postsecondary Teaching and Learning
> College of Education and Human Development
>
> James Ford Bell Museum of Natural History Research Associate
> University of Minnesota
>
> Office phone: 612-625-9346
> FAX: 612-625-0709
>
> Hatch Jay
> Minneapolis
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quotes)
I agree with Kevin. Bring back the stoplights before someone gets run down. At
least with the stoplights the traffic seems more controlled and there are
breaks in traffic so you can cross the street at other points besides a
stoplight.
On a sidenote, I cross 34th Ave. a lot by 45th St. and those cars are not going
any slower from their stop at 46 street. If anything the stop sign has no
effect on speeders because they are zooming through the neighborhood anyway.
> On May 21, 2014, at 12:20 PM, "Kevin Drake" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I don't think we should have to sit and wait for the study to play out. The
way the stop signs affected traffic have caused a clear and present danger to
residence trying to cross 42nd. Last summer things got better with the
addition of the crosswalks on 42nd at 26th (and another one I forget which
street) but as others have said the stop sign chops traffic up to a point that
there is no clear break and nobody want to step out in front of a car
travelling 30mph and pray they stop whether they are alone or with kids.
>
> This is a very busy intersection with lots of traffic that isn't what I would
call normal with the Bakery, Car repair shop, a high school and bus stop all
adding their own pieces of this problem. All this time they are looking at
things before Buster's reopens which will again add significant traffic to the
area. Unfortunately there is not sufficient room to add a left turn lane. The
way it is set up is good in my book.
>
> Also the addition of a bike rack at that corner would just add to the problem
just as it has contributed to problems with back up of traffic at 38th and 28th
Ave.
>
> So to I guess my opinion is the 4 way stop study was short sited from the
onset and has been a waste of taxpayer money. End it now and admit it was a
dumb idea.
>
> Kevin Drake
> Standish/Ericsson, Minneapolis
> About/contact Kevin Drake:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4FZS73OeSlr5SeLNWz2Y1E
least with the stoplights the traffic seems more controlled and there are
breaks in traffic so you can cross the street at other points besides a
stoplight.
On a sidenote, I cross 34th Ave. a lot by 45th St. and those cars are not going
any slower from their stop at 46 street. If anything the stop sign has no
effect on speeders because they are zooming through the neighborhood anyway.
> On May 21, 2014, at 12:20 PM, "Kevin Drake" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> I don't think we should have to sit and wait for the study to play out. The
way the stop signs affected traffic have caused a clear and present danger to
residence trying to cross 42nd. Last summer things got better with the
addition of the crosswalks on 42nd at 26th (and another one I forget which
street) but as others have said the stop sign chops traffic up to a point that
there is no clear break and nobody want to step out in front of a car
travelling 30mph and pray they stop whether they are alone or with kids.
>
> This is a very busy intersection with lots of traffic that isn't what I would
call normal with the Bakery, Car repair shop, a high school and bus stop all
adding their own pieces of this problem. All this time they are looking at
things before Buster's reopens which will again add significant traffic to the
area. Unfortunately there is not sufficient room to add a left turn lane. The
way it is set up is good in my book.
>
> Also the addition of a bike rack at that corner would just add to the problem
just as it has contributed to problems with back up of traffic at 38th and 28th
Ave.
>
> So to I guess my opinion is the 4 way stop study was short sited from the
onset and has been a waste of taxpayer money. End it now and admit it was a
dumb idea.
>
> Kevin Drake
> Standish/Ericsson, Minneapolis
> About/contact Kevin Drake:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4FZS73OeSlr5SeLNWz2Y1E
I contacted 311 and city council member Andrew Johnson to voice my opposition
to the 4 way stop at 42nd and 28th. I got the feeling from his office that if
they hear from enough people they can pull the plug on this study early, I am
not sure how much time is left.
I encourage others to contact his office with your thoughts so that you can
influence this situation.
Andrew.johnson @ minneapolismn.gov
Office Phone: 612-673-2212
to the 4 way stop at 42nd and 28th. I got the feeling from his office that if
they hear from enough people they can pull the plug on this study early, I am
not sure how much time is left.
I encourage others to contact his office with your thoughts so that you can
influence this situation.
Andrew.johnson @ minneapolismn.gov
Office Phone: 612-673-2212
Wow, this is quite a robust and thoughtful discussion. I find myself ambivalent
about the stoplight vs stop sign question, even though I live just a few yards
away from that intersection. I have 2 small children and we often cross there,
and it seems there are good arguments on all sides. I have noticed that it's
now very difficult to cross 28th at 40th, as we often do on our way to the
Roosevelt Library, as there is a steady stream of cars.
What I do feel strongly about, however, is the lack of painted crosswalks in
that intersection. In fact, there aren't ANY painted crosswalks between
Hiawatha on the east, to maybe Cedar on the west. I'm surprised I haven't seen
more mention of this - don't others agree? Having a 4-way stop at 28th/42nd
without any painted cross walks makes it even more hazardous than stoplights,
in my opinion, as cars never seem to come to a complete stop once they're
finally there.
It seems to me the stop light option is the best, with the modification someone
suggested of having it revert to blinking red during non-rush hours. I'm going
to call CM Johnsons office and 311 to weigh in. Also I'm going to recommend a
stop sign on 28th Ave at 40th street.
about the stoplight vs stop sign question, even though I live just a few yards
away from that intersection. I have 2 small children and we often cross there,
and it seems there are good arguments on all sides. I have noticed that it's
now very difficult to cross 28th at 40th, as we often do on our way to the
Roosevelt Library, as there is a steady stream of cars.
What I do feel strongly about, however, is the lack of painted crosswalks in
that intersection. In fact, there aren't ANY painted crosswalks between
Hiawatha on the east, to maybe Cedar on the west. I'm surprised I haven't seen
more mention of this - don't others agree? Having a 4-way stop at 28th/42nd
without any painted cross walks makes it even more hazardous than stoplights,
in my opinion, as cars never seem to come to a complete stop once they're
finally there.
It seems to me the stop light option is the best, with the modification someone
suggested of having it revert to blinking red during non-rush hours. I'm going
to call CM Johnsons office and 311 to weigh in. Also I'm going to recommend a
stop sign on 28th Ave at 40th street.
What is interesting about Steven's comment is, with three of his four examples,
he feels unsafe crossing the street, yet in every instance he has (we all have)
the legal right to do so. (42nd Street seems to be the common denominator). It
shouldn't be this way, but why is this? Many reasons, including a lack of
traffic enforcement, a lack of understanding by both pedestrians and drivers
what the rules are at a crosswalk (if a pedestrian is in the crosswalk,
vehicles must yield, but don't jump out in front of a car), different traffic
control at a variety of intersections, and streets that in many places are
simply designed for speed. Steven's "safe" example is a four-way stop where two
somewhat narrower streets converge and drivers apparently have learned to obey
the law (but there's no doughnuts!).
Driving is a privilege, but crossing the street is a right. I want to work
towards having a neighborhood where you feel comfortable crossing the street,
whether it is to get a doughnut, get to the park, or wherever, and where it is
safe to do so at every intersection. We need to address this from a variety of
angles, but we need to stop being so permissible about vehicles. Yes, sometimes
that means cars must go slower or even stop.
By all means, please contact 311 and ask that the police enforce traffic
control, and be specific. And while you are at it, contact Hennepin County and
insist that 42nd Street needs more pedestrian improvements - as Kyle noted,
SENA has been working at this for years, with some success, and we believe much
more can be done.
As for the doughnuts, I've made several trips (on foot, on my bike and in my
car) to A Baker's Wife since the stop sign test began, and have not encountered
any safety problems. I encourage neighbors to do the same, with an open mind,
and maybe it will be a little less bad than you think - if cars are all stopped
or moving slowly, the risk of fatality is greatly reduced. Hopefully some day
soon we'll have nice big painted crosswalks at the intersection to help
pedestrians feel more comfortable crossing.
Meanwhile, I encourage people to read this post at streets.mn
http://streets.mn/2014/05/20/still-too-many-pedestrians-killed-in-the-twin-cities/.
Just 6% of trips in the Twin Cities are made on foot, yet pedestrians account
for more than 20% of traffic deaths. That shouldn't be the case. We're lucky to
live in a walkable neighborhood. Let's work to make walking safer and more
pleasant for people of all ages.
he feels unsafe crossing the street, yet in every instance he has (we all have)
the legal right to do so. (42nd Street seems to be the common denominator). It
shouldn't be this way, but why is this? Many reasons, including a lack of
traffic enforcement, a lack of understanding by both pedestrians and drivers
what the rules are at a crosswalk (if a pedestrian is in the crosswalk,
vehicles must yield, but don't jump out in front of a car), different traffic
control at a variety of intersections, and streets that in many places are
simply designed for speed. Steven's "safe" example is a four-way stop where two
somewhat narrower streets converge and drivers apparently have learned to obey
the law (but there's no doughnuts!).
Driving is a privilege, but crossing the street is a right. I want to work
towards having a neighborhood where you feel comfortable crossing the street,
whether it is to get a doughnut, get to the park, or wherever, and where it is
safe to do so at every intersection. We need to address this from a variety of
angles, but we need to stop being so permissible about vehicles. Yes, sometimes
that means cars must go slower or even stop.
By all means, please contact 311 and ask that the police enforce traffic
control, and be specific. And while you are at it, contact Hennepin County and
insist that 42nd Street needs more pedestrian improvements - as Kyle noted,
SENA has been working at this for years, with some success, and we believe much
more can be done.
As for the doughnuts, I've made several trips (on foot, on my bike and in my
car) to A Baker's Wife since the stop sign test began, and have not encountered
any safety problems. I encourage neighbors to do the same, with an open mind,
and maybe it will be a little less bad than you think - if cars are all stopped
or moving slowly, the risk of fatality is greatly reduced. Hopefully some day
soon we'll have nice big painted crosswalks at the intersection to help
pedestrians feel more comfortable crossing.
Meanwhile, I encourage people to read this post at streets.mn
http://streets.mn/2014/05/20/still-too-many-pedestrians-killed-in-the-twin-cities/.
Just 6% of trips in the Twin Cities are made on foot, yet pedestrians account
for more than 20% of traffic deaths. That shouldn't be the case. We're lucky to
live in a walkable neighborhood. Let's work to make walking safer and more
pleasant for people of all ages.
I appreciate the comment by Lars. In fact, in the fall of 2012, following
resurfacing of 42nd Street, crosswalks were painted at the intersection on 42nd
and 28th. I took the attached photo at the time.
Regardless of your opinion on the signal vs. sign, I encourage everyone to
contact 311 to insist that the crosswalks be repainted at this busy pedestrian
intersection.
resurfacing of 42nd Street, crosswalks were painted at the intersection on 42nd
and 28th. I took the attached photo at the time.
Regardless of your opinion on the signal vs. sign, I encourage everyone to
contact 311 to insist that the crosswalks be repainted at this busy pedestrian
intersection.
Heading eastbound on 42nd St at 5:20pm it took me 1 minute 35 seconds to get
through this intersection. Based on my recollections of how long it took me to
get through the intersection when it was lit and I had to stop, the stop sign
was a bit longer than I felt was normal. The backup heading eastbound started
to the west of Buzz's barbershop by a few vehicles.
The amount of time it took me to cross was probably a bit excessive because
there was a group of teenagers goofing off at corner and I think drivers were
extra cautious and slow to enter the intersection because of those kids. Let me
be clear that tthe kids actions where inappropriate as they were making fake
motions to cross, running erratically etc etc. It's was not an example of
proper pedestrian behavior. I was ready to make old man fists at them......
I can work with either a stop light or a stop sign. I think a stop sign is
more conductive to the long term vision/hope the neighborhood has to turn the
intersection into a proper destination, but the maybe a stop light at rush hour
then a flashing red signal at off peak hours is a happy compromise. Definitely
the cost to install but then take out those lights leaves a really bad taste in
my mouth.
Next, heading westbound on 42nd St at 5:35pm it took me three lights and almost
exactly 4 minutes to turn go left on Cedar Ave. I should have known better but
I wanted to see the difference. At risk of flying tomatoes and cabbage, the
intersection of Cedar and 42nd St is the intersection that needs a once over.
Rush hour is simply a bit of a cluster everywhere in south Minneapolis. Don't
even ask how long it took me to get the 7 miles from Northrop Elementary to the
St. Louis Park Rec Center this evening.
through this intersection. Based on my recollections of how long it took me to
get through the intersection when it was lit and I had to stop, the stop sign
was a bit longer than I felt was normal. The backup heading eastbound started
to the west of Buzz's barbershop by a few vehicles.
The amount of time it took me to cross was probably a bit excessive because
there was a group of teenagers goofing off at corner and I think drivers were
extra cautious and slow to enter the intersection because of those kids. Let me
be clear that tthe kids actions where inappropriate as they were making fake
motions to cross, running erratically etc etc. It's was not an example of
proper pedestrian behavior. I was ready to make old man fists at them......
I can work with either a stop light or a stop sign. I think a stop sign is
more conductive to the long term vision/hope the neighborhood has to turn the
intersection into a proper destination, but the maybe a stop light at rush hour
then a flashing red signal at off peak hours is a happy compromise. Definitely
the cost to install but then take out those lights leaves a really bad taste in
my mouth.
Next, heading westbound on 42nd St at 5:35pm it took me three lights and almost
exactly 4 minutes to turn go left on Cedar Ave. I should have known better but
I wanted to see the difference. At risk of flying tomatoes and cabbage, the
intersection of Cedar and 42nd St is the intersection that needs a once over.
Rush hour is simply a bit of a cluster everywhere in south Minneapolis. Don't
even ask how long it took me to get the 7 miles from Northrop Elementary to the
St. Louis Park Rec Center this evening.
I may be against changing almost any stop sign into a 4 way stop on principal
(once the expensive semi-intelligent infrastructure is already there), but as
an open minded individual, let's give it a shot since it was proposed without
my consent.
I live within one block of this experiment and I have driven, walked. and biked
across it countless times since this started. It actually works well as a 4 way
stop as long as 42nd is closed at Haiwatha. Once that is reopened, it is once
again a busy intersection and I don't feel safe crossing as a pedestrian or a
bicyclist. As a driver in evening rush hour today 5:15 pm it was 25 cars backed
up in both the North/South direction. Not necessarily a problem, heaven forbid
I want to walk to Bills Garden for dinner without endangering my safety? Not
OK. 25 car backup is nothing in a car, but what if it's 50? Where do we draw
the line? A stop light is one of the best forms of efficient traffic control
civil engineers have to offer and it's already here folks.
Apparently it's a priority attending these meetings, do they serve beer?
Mike
On Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:02 PM, Kyle Werremeyer <<email obscured>>
wrote:
Heading eastbound on 42nd St at 5:20pm it took me 1 minute 35 seconds to get
through this intersection. Based on my recollections of how long it took me to
get through the intersection when it was lit and I had to stop, the stop sign
was a bit longer than I felt was normal. The backup heading eastbound started
to the west of Buzz's barbershop by a few vehicles.
The amount of time it took me to cross was probably a bit excessive because
there was a group of teenagers goofing off at corner and I think drivers were
extra cautious and slow to enter the intersection because of those kids. Let me
be clear that tthe kids actions where inappropriate as they were making fake
motions to cross, running erratically etc etc. It's was not an example of
proper pedestrian behavior. I was ready to make old man fists at them......
I can work with either a stop light or a stop sign. I think a stop sign is more
conductive to the long term vision/hope the neighborhood has to turn the
intersection into a proper destination, but the maybe a stop light at rush hour
then a flashing red signal at off peak hours is a happy compromise. Definitely
the cost to install but then take out those lights leaves a really bad taste in
my mouth.
Next, heading westbound on 42nd St at 5:35pm it took me three lights and almost
exactly 4 minutes to turn go left on Cedar Ave. I should have known better but
I wanted to see the difference. At risk of flying tomatoes and cabbage, the
intersection of Cedar and 42nd St is the intersection that needs a once over.
Rush hour is simply a bit of a cluster everywhere in south Minneapolis. Don't
even ask how long it took me to get the 7 miles from Northrop Elementary to the
St. Louis Park Rec Center this evening.
Kyle Werremeyer
Standish, Minneapolis
About/contact Kyle Werremeyer:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4Dao7tt1SFPG2OfbesK7oj
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6u4Wy8TW6LjmOsM5XMOnDM
* Want to connect great ideas across communities?
Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
(once the expensive semi-intelligent infrastructure is already there), but as
an open minded individual, let's give it a shot since it was proposed without
my consent.
I live within one block of this experiment and I have driven, walked. and biked
across it countless times since this started. It actually works well as a 4 way
stop as long as 42nd is closed at Haiwatha. Once that is reopened, it is once
again a busy intersection and I don't feel safe crossing as a pedestrian or a
bicyclist. As a driver in evening rush hour today 5:15 pm it was 25 cars backed
up in both the North/South direction. Not necessarily a problem, heaven forbid
I want to walk to Bills Garden for dinner without endangering my safety? Not
OK. 25 car backup is nothing in a car, but what if it's 50? Where do we draw
the line? A stop light is one of the best forms of efficient traffic control
civil engineers have to offer and it's already here folks.
Apparently it's a priority attending these meetings, do they serve beer?
Mike
On Thursday, May 22, 2014 7:02 PM, Kyle Werremeyer <<email obscured>>
wrote:
Heading eastbound on 42nd St at 5:20pm it took me 1 minute 35 seconds to get
through this intersection. Based on my recollections of how long it took me to
get through the intersection when it was lit and I had to stop, the stop sign
was a bit longer than I felt was normal. The backup heading eastbound started
to the west of Buzz's barbershop by a few vehicles.
The amount of time it took me to cross was probably a bit excessive because
there was a group of teenagers goofing off at corner and I think drivers were
extra cautious and slow to enter the intersection because of those kids. Let me
be clear that tthe kids actions where inappropriate as they were making fake
motions to cross, running erratically etc etc. It's was not an example of
proper pedestrian behavior. I was ready to make old man fists at them......
I can work with either a stop light or a stop sign. I think a stop sign is more
conductive to the long term vision/hope the neighborhood has to turn the
intersection into a proper destination, but the maybe a stop light at rush hour
then a flashing red signal at off peak hours is a happy compromise. Definitely
the cost to install but then take out those lights leaves a really bad taste in
my mouth.
Next, heading westbound on 42nd St at 5:35pm it took me three lights and almost
exactly 4 minutes to turn go left on Cedar Ave. I should have known better but
I wanted to see the difference. At risk of flying tomatoes and cabbage, the
intersection of Cedar and 42nd St is the intersection that needs a once over.
Rush hour is simply a bit of a cluster everywhere in south Minneapolis. Don't
even ask how long it took me to get the 7 miles from Northrop Elementary to the
St. Louis Park Rec Center this evening.
Kyle Werremeyer
Standish, Minneapolis
About/contact Kyle Werremeyer:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/4Dao7tt1SFPG2OfbesK7oj
View full topic:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6u4Wy8TW6LjmOsM5XMOnDM
* Want to connect great ideas across communities?
Join our Facebook experiment: http://on.fb.me/RPxIbu
Yesterday, I spoke to a staffer in CM Johnson's office who said the calls have
been overwhelmingly against removal of the stop lights, and the study is likely
to conclude early based on the lopsided response.
However, on the crosswalk issue, I got a pretty frustrating response. She
seemed to indicate that there wasn't mmuch they could do, the Dept of Public
Works is the problem as they decide whether to paint crosswalks, and also that
there is an argument that crosswalks create a 'false sense of security' for
pedestrians and therefore aren't that effective.
So I definitely encourage folks to call & email CM Andrew Johnson to continue
to push for painted crosswalks.
Andrew Johnson's office (612) 673-2212
Email - <email obscured>
Thanks!
Lars
been overwhelmingly against removal of the stop lights, and the study is likely
to conclude early based on the lopsided response.
However, on the crosswalk issue, I got a pretty frustrating response. She
seemed to indicate that there wasn't mmuch they could do, the Dept of Public
Works is the problem as they decide whether to paint crosswalks, and also that
there is an argument that crosswalks create a 'false sense of security' for
pedestrians and therefore aren't that effective.
So I definitely encourage folks to call & email CM Andrew Johnson to continue
to push for painted crosswalks.
Andrew Johnson's office (612) 673-2212
Email - <email obscured>
Thanks!
Lars
PS: The email address is Andrew.Johnson (at) minneapolismn.gov
and Thanks Sam for the photo - those crosswalks looked great.
and Thanks Sam for the photo - those crosswalks looked great.
The response I got from 311 about crosswalk painting at 42nd and 28th is as
follows:
"Crosswalks and Stop Bars are normally repainted once per year, budget
permitting. The Crosswalk and Stop Bar repainting season begins on May 1st
weather permitting and ends November 15th weather permitting. The downtown zone
is completed first, followed by the North, Northeast, South, Southeastern areas
of Minneapolis. Painting is started in a different zone each year. Stop Bars
are located at signalized intersections. "
The argument about false sense of security should be put to rest - cars don't
hit crosswalks, they hit people. We have to stop forgiving cars when they
create unsafe conditions.
follows:
"Crosswalks and Stop Bars are normally repainted once per year, budget
permitting. The Crosswalk and Stop Bar repainting season begins on May 1st
weather permitting and ends November 15th weather permitting. The downtown zone
is completed first, followed by the North, Northeast, South, Southeastern areas
of Minneapolis. Painting is started in a different zone each year. Stop Bars
are located at signalized intersections. "
The argument about false sense of security should be put to rest - cars don't
hit crosswalks, they hit people. We have to stop forgiving cars when they
create unsafe conditions.
I am 100% in favor of keeping the stop light. I live near 42nd St. near the
intersection. The light was set for about 45 seconds between changing which I
thought was perfect for a intersection like this β no one ever had to wait very
long!
With the new stop sign it is very difficult to exit the alley (turn left across
traffic) or cross the intersection at 29th Ave or 30th Ave during rush hour or
another busy time. there is a constant stream of traffic from both directions
now with not enough of a gap to cross or enter the street turning left. It is
scary and dangerous. With the stop light at least you could count on a break
every 45 sec. to cross the street, turn left or enter into traffic from an
alley.
There was a similar problem when 28th Ave was closed for resurfacing. It was
almost impossible to cross 42nd any place between 29th and Hiawatha except for
the Nokomis Ave. 4-way stop. People would honk at me as I would try to pull
out between "stop sign breaks" on 29th or 30th, they drove too fast and there
was not a big enough gap between cars. Even though they had just stopped a
block or two prior. It is true many people speed up right away after a stop
sign and within a block or two can catch the previous stop sign "stopped" car,
and quickly fill any gaps between cars. Try crossing 42nd now to go to Ace
Hardware from 29th or 30th, either on foot or in a car during a busy or
semi-busy time and see how scary it is to try to grab one of those "stop sign
breaks" to use to cross (almost no breaks now because traffic is both stopping
and coming from two directions each at a different rhythm, from stop signs at
28th and Nokomis). Add people already angry from rush hour traffic and they
have no patience for you trying to cross or access your own neighborhood
street. The stop light is the best solution for cars accessing 42nd from alleys
or our nearby side streets and pedestrians crossing 42nd or 28th from nearby
side streets because of the break it creates in the flow of traffic.
I feel much safer crossing on foot with a green light at 42nd & 28th than with
the stop sign. It is just too busy of an intersection. (I've seen too many
people "blow though" the Nokomis stop sign by accident, or screech suddenly to
a stop half way through and that is a less busy intersection.)
Side note: I noticed the city changed the light timing on Minnehaha Ave and
42nd St. The 42nd green light now lasts only a few seconds before blinking
Don't Walk. During rush hour cars often need two changes of the light to get
across if they are in the back or behind left turning people. I wish they would
change that light back to the way it was for the past 10+ years. 42nd has
become so much busier since the light rail. It helped to prevent back ups on
42nd at Minnehaha and ease traffic tension there.
intersection. The light was set for about 45 seconds between changing which I
thought was perfect for a intersection like this β no one ever had to wait very
long!
With the new stop sign it is very difficult to exit the alley (turn left across
traffic) or cross the intersection at 29th Ave or 30th Ave during rush hour or
another busy time. there is a constant stream of traffic from both directions
now with not enough of a gap to cross or enter the street turning left. It is
scary and dangerous. With the stop light at least you could count on a break
every 45 sec. to cross the street, turn left or enter into traffic from an
alley.
There was a similar problem when 28th Ave was closed for resurfacing. It was
almost impossible to cross 42nd any place between 29th and Hiawatha except for
the Nokomis Ave. 4-way stop. People would honk at me as I would try to pull
out between "stop sign breaks" on 29th or 30th, they drove too fast and there
was not a big enough gap between cars. Even though they had just stopped a
block or two prior. It is true many people speed up right away after a stop
sign and within a block or two can catch the previous stop sign "stopped" car,
and quickly fill any gaps between cars. Try crossing 42nd now to go to Ace
Hardware from 29th or 30th, either on foot or in a car during a busy or
semi-busy time and see how scary it is to try to grab one of those "stop sign
breaks" to use to cross (almost no breaks now because traffic is both stopping
and coming from two directions each at a different rhythm, from stop signs at
28th and Nokomis). Add people already angry from rush hour traffic and they
have no patience for you trying to cross or access your own neighborhood
street. The stop light is the best solution for cars accessing 42nd from alleys
or our nearby side streets and pedestrians crossing 42nd or 28th from nearby
side streets because of the break it creates in the flow of traffic.
I feel much safer crossing on foot with a green light at 42nd & 28th than with
the stop sign. It is just too busy of an intersection. (I've seen too many
people "blow though" the Nokomis stop sign by accident, or screech suddenly to
a stop half way through and that is a less busy intersection.)
Side note: I noticed the city changed the light timing on Minnehaha Ave and
42nd St. The 42nd green light now lasts only a few seconds before blinking
Don't Walk. During rush hour cars often need two changes of the light to get
across if they are in the back or behind left turning people. I wish they would
change that light back to the way it was for the past 10+ years. 42nd has
become so much busier since the light rail. It helped to prevent back ups on
42nd at Minnehaha and ease traffic tension there.
Just an FYI to follow up on this string. I got a reply from my 311 report
saying the stop light at 42nd and 28th will be turned back on. The comments
from the neighborhood really did make a difference in this case! Well done
forum!
Patty
saying the stop light at 42nd and 28th will be turned back on. The comments
from the neighborhood really did make a difference in this case! Well done
forum!
Patty
Good. It is needed and will be even more do when busters reopens!
> On May 29, 2014, at 10:49 AM, "Patty Graham" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Just an FYI to follow up on this string. I got a reply from my 311 report
saying the stop light at 42nd and 28th will be turned back on. The comments
from the neighborhood really did make a difference in this case! Well done
forum!
>
> Patty
> Patty Graham
> Ericsson, Minneapolis
> About/contact Patty Graham:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/2XGMcbVjnaO4lSeHh7BYHo
> On May 29, 2014, at 10:49 AM, "Patty Graham" <<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> Just an FYI to follow up on this string. I got a reply from my 311 report
saying the stop light at 42nd and 28th will be turned back on. The comments
from the neighborhood really did make a difference in this case! Well done
forum!
>
> Patty
> Patty Graham
> Ericsson, Minneapolis
> About/contact Patty Graham:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/2XGMcbVjnaO4lSeHh7BYHo
I drove through there about an hour ago, and the signs are gone, and the
lights are back on.
lights are back on.
Power to the people!
Well, this forum brought about a very good discussion. While the issue of the
stop sign seems to be put to rest, the larger issue of pedestrian and bicycle
safety continues to be an issue that affects the quality of life for our
neighborhood, including its businesses.
I encourage those of you who spoke up on this thread or who want to make a
difference to get involved with SENA's BDT (or Quality of Life) committee. We
will remain active with other exciting projects, and we have receptive elected
officials to work with, so it is a good time to get involved. The SENA BDT
meets the first Thursday of the month at 6:30 at the SENA office, and our next
meeting is June 5.
Meanwhile, here's a good video (food for thought with what a "safe" street
means) -
stop sign seems to be put to rest, the larger issue of pedestrian and bicycle
safety continues to be an issue that affects the quality of life for our
neighborhood, including its businesses.
I encourage those of you who spoke up on this thread or who want to make a
difference to get involved with SENA's BDT (or Quality of Life) committee. We
will remain active with other exciting projects, and we have receptive elected
officials to work with, so it is a good time to get involved. The SENA BDT
meets the first Thursday of the month at 6:30 at the SENA office, and our next
meeting is June 5.
Meanwhile, here's a good video (food for thought with what a "safe" street
means) -
