All posts in the topic Eliminating The Revolving Door/MPLS Mirror (Short link)
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- There are 7 posts — by 5 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Bill Kahn (D) at Jul 05 00:29 UTC
I attended the Public Regulation and Public Safety Committee meeting on June 25th and watched the most amazing presentation I have ever seen, put on by the Minneapolis Police Department. A spokesman for the Department identified five problems they were facing in preventing crime and keeping our neighborhoods safe. http://mplsmirror.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=364&Itemid=1 Terry Yzaguirre Powderhorn
Greetings,
I posted the following response to Mr. Katch's article here and have also
submitted
to the Mirror.
Guy Gambill
(Northeast)
Michael,
I must say I am a bit surprised. First of all, the notion of targeting "Top
Offenders" is
nothing new in Law Enforcement and Prosecution here in the City of Minneapolis.
If you
look at the last 5 year Buisness Plan of the Minneapolis City Attorney's Office
you
would note that targeting the top 100 Offenders by the respective allocation of
50
"Blue" files (10 for each precinct) and 50 "Green" files (10 for each Community
or
Precinct Attorney) addressed the need to target top livability offenders some
years
ago. The establishment of the Safe Zone Collaborative 4 years ago also
ostensibly
worked from the premise of the need to target repeat "livability" (read, low
level)
offenders more vigorously.
And what did the experience of the "Downtown 33" or the top 33 livability
offenders
caught up in the so-called "pilot" Safe Zone Collaborative teach us? Oh,
incidentally,
the SZC "pilot" cost us 750,000, jointly allocated by the Downtown Business
Association,
Hennepin County and the City of Minneapolis. The "Downtown 33" broke down as
follows; 31 African-American Men, 1 Native Man and 1 White woman. 86% of these
people used an emergency shelter as their home address. 47% would be classed
as seriously and persistently mentally ill. Over 40% would be classed as
chronically
homeless by HUD definition. 16 were not from Minnesota. The vast majority of
the
offenses involving the 33 were "low-level" or such offenses as Lurking,
Loitering,
Aggressive Solicitation, Trespaasing, etcetera.
A preponderance of research would be demonstrative of the assertion that the
continual arrest and incarceration of such people as the schizophrenic
panhandler
who was arrested 47 times in 2 years did nothing whatsoever to improve or
change
the man's behavior. The one thing it did do is cost us a ton of money while
resolving
absolutely nothing.
The FBI's UCR (Uniform Crime Reporting) data, based on the MPD's own arrest
data, released 2 weeks ago, showed a 1.7% regional decrease with a decrease, in
10 out of 13 categories, in the City of MInneapolis. Despite that decrease,
again
by our own Law Enforcement records, 32 officers were added about 2 1\2 months
ago. They are currently requesting the addition of 5 more officers along with 1
community corrections officer specifically for the downtown sector. In
addition,
over 50% of the misdemeanor cases are dismissed. Now, this is not an episode
of Law and Order here, where every "bad" guy is simply a "bad" guy because he
is arrested. More often than not the only "crime" committed by many is the
simple
act of standing in public space because they have nowhere else to go.
Poverty engenders crime. It is an assertion as old as Rome and one based
solidly in empricism and not on conjecture. The fact that the average hourly
wage
of an African-American male is less by a third than the average white male
should
show us something. While Blacks comprise 3% of the State's Population they
comprise 44% of those in prison in Minnesota. Nationally, our incarceration
rate,
in the wake of the Rockefller Drug Laws in New York circa 1980, has increased
by well over 400%--600% for drug offenses. The assertion that race has nothing
to do with it is simply not based on fact, but on bias. I would think that a
member
of the Jewish community would be a bit more careful in such assertions based
on world history. There is an underlying inference, never far from the surface,
that
somehow Blacks should jerk themselves out of the socal malaise reflected in
high crime rates within Black communities by simple will power as a collective
act.
For White Europeans old biases, collective memories of European experience
generations in the past long persisted in American Social and Political life.
As an
illustration of this, witness the election of the first Catholic President in
the person
of JFK. The bias towards Catholics, especially Irish and Italian Americans, was
a direct reflection of our Puritan beginnings...a legacy that lingered for
generations,
passed from father to son, long disconnected from old world realities. Yet we
expect African-Americans to, in one generation, overcome the legacy of the
abject and pernicious effects of an overt and hurtful racism. There exists a
legacy
of racism in this country and that you need to be reminded of this (and I
consider
you more well-versed than most) tells me we still have a long way to go.
In our City we cut all sorts of services. We close 4 schools in North
Minneapolis.
We cut Libraries and Park services, reading programs and health care. We refuse
to reform data-practices and allow those ex-offenders who sincerely seek to
rehabilitate the chance to overcome mistakes. We are building a 26 million
dollar
juvenile detention facility while cutting education expenditures and closing
schools.
This in spite of the fact that we know that there exists a direct correlation
between
adult illiteracy and incarceration with a 70% rate amongst incarcerated males
in
the US.
For 28 years this nation has engaged in a "Race to Incarcerate" in the USA.
We, the defenders of the Free World, incarcerate more of our own citizens than
any nation on the face of the planet, 2.4 million in prison and over 4 million
more
in county correctional facilities. According to Justice Kennedy in 2002 over 52
million Americans have a "criminal" record---nearly 1\6th of our population.
This mindless juggernaut needs to be halted, pure and simple. The disastrous
social experiment which Mark Mauer has deemed the "Race to Incarcerate:" has
proven an abysmal failure the long-term social impacts of which we have yet
to see the worst of. To question this, it seems, is to invite the label of
being against
public safety. Well, I questioin what we are doing, period.
Of the many forms of government in the history of the world one might
search to find the appropriate term to describe a society where to question the
police is to be naive or stupid or wrong...the term "Democratic" does not
immediately jump to mind as a descriptive.
Three years ago I lobbied at our Legislature for the automatic sealing of
non-conviction data for non-violent offenses. In hand I carried the
endoresements
of over 60 State-Wide organizations representing Organized Labor, the Faith-
Based Communities (including JCRC, by the way), housing and homeless
advocates, veterans, advocates for the mentally ill, ex-offender groups,
advocates
for racial justice, and those for welfare reform. The first question out of
every Legislators
mouth was "where is law enforcement at with this". What would you call a State
where the Police dictate social policy?
Here is what I find the oddest of all in any of this. Here, the DFL leadership
attack the Bush Administration for the detainment of those at Guantanamo.
We decry the pernicious effects and implications of the Patriot Act and the
intrusiveness of the Federal Government into the Private Lies of citizens. They
abrogate the bonds of due process and the right to privacy with impunity and
we (rightfully so) attack the current administration for these
circumnavigations
around our fudamental beliefs and our Constitutional Rights...How, I ask, is
what we are doing here fundamentally different?
Saddest of all is that I keep hearing, from multiple parties, that if I keep
it
up the MPD will "get me" sooner or later. Now that, my friend, is a very sad
State of affairs. I am probably not what some would deem a "model" citizen,
but I do consider myself conscientious and I did serve this country, honorably,
for three years over seas in uniform. I work hard to try to make where I live a
better place and have volunteered to help many, many organizations...including
law enforcement. That so many feel that I am in danger of being messed with
by the very people who are supposed to ensure our right to free speech is
something that concerns me deeply. Why should I, or anyone else for that
matter, have to fear being messed with for simply making the observation that
we are strapped for resources and making cuts where maybe we should be
spending more money instead of less?
Please, before you engage in assisting in the "Race to Incarcerate" do
a bit more thinking and a bit more research. Such knee-jerk responses, without
much investigation, certainly will not help to fix much of anything.
Guy Gambill
I read with interest Guy Gambill's opinions in his "Opinion to the Minneapolis
Mirror" and post to the Minneapolis Issues List. As usual, I completely agree
with SOME of Guy's opinions and completely disagree on some others. Guy is
correct about the "automatic sealing of non-conviction data for non-violent
offenses." It makes no sense to keep using such records to hound someone who is
"changed". All we do by doing so is to insure that the person is left no
alternative but to become a more serious offender.
Some low level crime, however,does matter when carried on over years. An
example is one "junker" who collects metal from my neighborhood. Something I
use to support. It helped clean up the neighborhood. The difference was that
before they always asked and only took junk. Now we have some who do thousand
of dollars of damage to collect something they sell for a few dollars. That
particular junker tears down-spouts and gutters off of houses when people are
not home. Cuts the ground wires from telephone and power poles, steals
architectural antiques from houses, etc. and sells it for scrap metal.
That person mentioned above has cost me personally literally thousands of
dollars. Hehas been arrested over sixty (60) times in the last two years and
let go each time. What are the alternatives?There are three, arrest and
incarceration, ignoring the problem, or allowingvictims to take care of the
problem themselves. The last alternative sadly, though by far the more
effective, gets someone else in jail and anew person labeled"criminal"
Guy should know that poverty has little to do with the crime rate. It is the
differential between the haves and have-notsthat matter, and "differential in
expectations" that matter. True poverty is when you do NOT have food, do not
have heat in the winter, do not have housing available, and most importantly
have NO way of getting them. NO ONE in Minneapolis suffers the levels of
poverty that once existed in the old South, and yet the crime rate is far
higher, and the "Safety Level" is unbelievably worse. Why? Because of
"expectations". People expect to do better, and when those expectations are not
met they look for alternatives. We expect them to be, or continue to be,
criminals and notdo better; and they of course meet those expectations.
We have removed the personal responsibility from both the criminals as well as
the members of our society. We are creating more and more violent criminals
because as a society we simply do not understand the dynamics of differential
expectations, and the policies of social isolation that occurs when members of
society are not "expected" to take individualresponsibility for our
communities. As individuals weshould be responsible for taking care of all the
members of our community, as well as the protection of all members of our
community. We should simply NOT ALLOW criminals in our communities, and at the
same time we should insure that those with mental health problems are cared
for.
Crime rates, and especially violent crime rates, in communities were far lower
during the "Depression" and the "Gangster" era than they are today. True
poverty levels for every race were unbelievably higher at the same time. Why? I
think because of "expectations" and the amount of social isolation we have
today.
We need police officers who are not an outside garrison force. Police officers
who are not afraid to live IN our Minneapolis communities. Police officers who
are part of our communities. We should have affirmative action to hire police
officers from our communities. We do have plenty of people who want to be
police officers and actually live in and grew up in Minneapolis. Importing more
"Garrison" officers simply does not make sense. An officer willing to live in,
and be a part of our communities is simply worth more to Minneapolis than
someone who comes to work at the "Minneapolis Criminal Factory" each day.
As for Guy's worry about harassment by Minneapolis Police, I think they are
groundless. Besides Guy, you could use the million or so dollars that would
surely come to you if it did happen. No Guy, you are far to vocal and
persistent, they know that you would definitely pursue the issue if you are
really harassed. As arrogant as some bad cops are they know when it is a sheep
and when it has teeth behind the wool. And of course good cops would not think
of doing it. Guy, your putting it out on the table puts some extra teeth in as
well. Be sure to let some other of us "teeth" know if you need to bite back.
Jim Graham,
Ventura Village
Apparently I didn't make clear that when the local guys call in the Feds, they
do it in Federal court not just because the sentencing and evidentiary
guidelines are tougher, but also they must be able to charge the offenders with
federal crimes, which are generally much more violent and more specifically bad
than local ordinances. We are not talking about lurking, we are talking about
gangs and multi-state rings. When I talk about livability, I am referring to
being able to walk down the street safely, not about graffiti.
The fact is, what is destroying our neighborhoods and thus our city is
organized crime. These commuter felons, who come in from the suburbs, or
Chicago, or wherever, are not just wandering in, doing their crime and going
for lemonade at the neighbor's. THEY ARE ORGANIZED! Guy knows that organized
crime is a result of Prohibition, and we prohibit many things now, and
organized crime is the reaction. This must be fought on a different level than
driving down the street and picking up the kid standing on the corner with a
couple of dime bags. We have to fight the organization and pull it out by the
roots. (Of course, what we in the civilian ranks can do is eliminate the
prohibitions, but that is a different topic.)
The reason I am ok with this is because I know organized crime is real. Have
you heard of Al Capone? The Giancanas? Meyer Lanski? These real people made
huge fortunes by organizing the poor people to take their crime to the small
local level, but there are Federal laws to stop them, and we should use the
right tools for the right job.
(the two posts a day thing sucks, at times).
Ok. I understand what you're driving at now. Do we have any data that anyone
knows
of that would corroborate the assertion that gang members are, en masse,
getting off
easy in the lower (District) Courts? Criminal acts perpetrated by gang members
whose
affiliation can be established already carry a set of enhanced penalties within
both
State and Federal Statute so I am not sure what it means to toss up more cases
to the domain of the Circuit Courts. Homicide, large scale drug trafficking,
human
slavery, aggravated assault...all of these things can already by charged
Federally
when committed under a known gang affiliation, as a part of "organized
crime"...so
what are we saying, that we are going to prosecute 4th and 5th Degree
possession
offenses as trafficking or under, say, the Federal Conspiracy tool brought in
by Reagan?
I highly doubt the Circuit Courts will opt to do that....under Sentencing
Guidelines
they wouldn't get enough of a sentence for the Feds to be interested.
It is interesting that you note the rise of "organized crime" during
Prohibition.
It did not "begin" during Prohibition, with the passage of the Volstead Act.
La Mano Negra or Cosa Nostra had been up and running on the ground in the
US (especially New York) long before Prohibition...prohibition is what allowed
organized crime to flourish.
And why did this happen? Look at it in Economic terms. Organized Crime
began (and flourishes to this day) in those communities where the economic
situation is the most challenging (and refer, here, back to Jim's assertion
that
crime and poverty are not linked...think about it). During Prohibition, in New
York,
Chicago, Philly, Detroit...Capone, Lansky and the like weren't born in Albany
or
Buffalo. Prohibition created an economic opportunity for people to escape
poverty
by allowing them to market illicit goods and services (alcohol, drugs, gambling
prostitution). And again, back to Jim's observation that crime and poverty had
no connection, let's have a show of hands: All those who want to score a 20
of crack or find a hooker, where would you start; a) Wayzata b? Franklin Avenue
c). Edina. I rest my case.
If you have ever gone to the South Side of Chicago, East LA or Compton,
Old Harlem....do you think kids sit around in the main and think, "let me see,
I could go to Juliard, Harvard, the Naval Academy or I could be a crack dealer"
Michael, the South Side of Chicago is not a place where intellectuals and
artists thrive...and lawyers, well, only for court appearances. Of course they
join gangs and sell crack!! What the Hell else would they do? Now, is this a
fundamental reflection of an inherent evil in Black Men as a racial or ethnic
group or is it a lack of economic opportunity that fosters "criminal" activity?
You ever look at trying to survive on 8.60 an hour working at a McDonalds
in South Chicago? Equating the lack of economic opportunity with criminality
is not a good comparison.
And you are right, the way to fight the War on Drugs, for example, is to
go after the "Big Fish"...but isn't that what we have done since the 1960?
If it isn't, I am completely missing something. We have an entire web of
Federal Agencies, so interwoven and complex that not even those heading
said organizations can adequately describe the domains of each. Remember
Iran-Contra? There are multitudinous State, Local and Federal agencies
tasked with fighting the "War on Drugs"....to the tune of billions of dollars
per annum. By my definition, that is going after the "Big Fish"...folks like
Cardenas, Gortari and the rest...but the minute you take one down there
are 5 more. Again, in Colombia you have choices: Should I earn 20 dollars
an acre for my coffee crop or 20 million for growing coca...this isn't rocket
science, people.
Prohibition did not witness the beginning of organized crime, it allowed
existent crime organizations to flourish...just like the continuing prohibition
on controlled substances. This is a materialistic, Capitalistic society. We
are all about appearance, about cash, about things. The decision to deal
drugs is, very often, unrelated to moral fiber or individual fortitude...it is
an economic imperative for many people...or, at very least, it is the chance
(often the only chance) to have what those we idolize, as a culture, have.
Fact of the matter is,if you or Jim or I lived in South Chicago and we
were Black we may very well be slinging crack right now....it would certainly
be a far more likely avenue, wouldn't it?
So, in the end, we use a criminal justice response to fight a set of social
and economic ills that cannot be overcome in such manner....Mike, Prohibition
(the Volstead Act) was only partially ended. Controlled substances are still
illegal. The economic incentives for engaging, irresistable for many. The
way to stop drug-dealing is to legalize drugs and let the government subsidize
and control the industry...it can be overcome no other way. Barring that, you
will have gangs, period.
If there were any sign at all that the "War on Drugs" could be won I would
feel differently...there's more dope on the street now than ever
before...despite
the incarceration of millions, the killing of hundreds of thousands more and
the expenditure of trillions of dollars...If this is winning, pray tell what
does
losing look like? I can tell you, it looks like South Chicago or Detroit...what
Minneapolis will look like in 20 years unless we make some substantive
changes to policy in this country.
Bet we won't. We will wait until we have a crisis similar to 1929...then, if
we are given another change, perhaps a New New Deal can be undertaken...if
we lived at that time the folks right here would be foaming against child labor
laws, safety standards, social security, public education, universal suffrage
perhaps....but we are Americans...we never deal with history until it jumps
up and bites us in the butt. It's biting us right now and we still don't
listen.
Lastly, for the US Government to take a "Moralistic" position on things
like drugs, well, excuse me if I fail to be impressed by the source.
Guy Gambill
(Northeast)
Actually, Guy, there is data that Part 1 felons are not having to serve long
sentences in Hennepin County courts, and when they are sentenced, they rarely
are required to serve their entire sentence. In the police work that I chose
to write about, targeting is of primary importance, and since the animals that
prey on us law-abiding citizens tend to reoffend, this form of targeting is
where the police begin their surveillance.
As I pointed out in my article, the police believe it is important to actively
confront repeat offenders. It is important to make sure they do not repeat the
behavior that put them on the police's radar in the first place. I really do
not want to go into specific cases, but it is not enough to go after the
kingpin of street gangs, which are the basis of the sorts of crime that make
parts of Minneapolis unsafe. We must root out the entire gang. I guess the
best example I can cite is the removal of the Tre Tre Crips from North
Minneapolis on May 22, 2007. Once they were incarcerated, we had a six week
period where there were zero murders in North Minneapolis, just last year.
All 45 of them were arrested and charged at the same time. We cannot just cut
off the head and expect the organization to die. New leaders rise faster than
cockroaches invade a kitchen.
I will endeavor to obtain court statistics on actual sentencing lengths of time
for Hennepin County, but I am of the belief that the sort of crime that our
police must devote their resources to address, as you rightly stated, is being
perpetrated by a vast minority of the population, and is not being done in a
vacuum. These sorts of criminals tend to form gangs and organize. I can cite
evidence as to the fact that a great deal of this crime is not native to the
neighborhoods that these criminal have infested, but I am wary of putting
on-going police investigations at risk. It is clear to me that most of the bad
guys are not poor, not living in the neighborhood, and a charge of lurking (a
poorly written ordinance as we agree) will not get these thugs of our streets.
It seems that we as a nation go through periods of gang activity as part of our
national history. The first organized street gangs were the "Natives", who
were replaced by the Irish (have you ever seen the movie "Gangs of New York"?),
who were superceded by the Jews, who retired in favor of the Italians. Now we
are faced with Asian, African American, Hispanic, and, new to the party,
Somalian organizations.
As to your assessment of whether we would turn to a life of crime instead of a
life of improving society if we have been born poor in the 'hood, I take
exception. Eugene O'Neal wrote his best work while living in desperate
poverty. Rap music is also an art form that was born in the 'hood; I would
dare to say that many of our nation's greatest contributors to arts and
culture were born out of poverty and despair. I humbly would like to remind
you that I myself have lived through periods of homelessness, since I am the
survivor of a closed head injury and live with those limitations on a daily
basis.
You are correct, the Minneapolis Public Schools have failed. Instead of
complaining about this situation, I have spent many hours of my time
volunteering and trying to improve this sad fact. Do you think I spend myself
into debt and run for office for fun? Let's see, do a mailing or eat… my
disability makes me a little obsessive. There are serious problems we have to
face as a community in order to leave this world a better place for the next
generation.
We are teaching our children how to take a test, and not how to succeed in
life. I have been pushing for real hands-on education in order to motivate
kids to learn algebra. Without higher math skills, their futures are lost. If
we are teaching our children to succeed in college, how come none of our
curriculum is vetted by a Board of Deans of our local universities? Do we
have a shortage of higher learning institutions? Let see; Macalester,
Hamline, Augsberg, Concordia, University of Minnesota Twin Cities campus,
Metropolitan State, St. Thomas, Bethel, St. Catherine's, MCTC, Brown
Institute, The Art Institute of Minneapolis… I see no shortage of higher
learning resources. It is not enough to get kids admitted to post secondary
education. They must be prepared to pass their classes once they get to the
next level. It has been the culture of the Minneapolis Public School system
to only care about kids while they are going through the system and not the
adults they graduated, if they graduated.
We can only address the hopelessness of poverty when we actual decide to fight
poverty. The Minneapolis Employment and Training Program has a goal of
training people to earn $13.25 an hour. My attitude has been, are you
freaking kidding me?! It costs at least $20 an hour to support a family of
three in a single parent home in a 40 hour work week. Have we as a society
decided that one must be of a certain class to have full time parents? This is
our tax dollars at work, perpetuating poverty in our streets and contributing
to our problems. There are many politicians in this city who cry for more
affordable housing. I, on the other hand, scream to employ people at a wage
that will allow them to afford the housing that has already been built. What
are we running? Gulags! Is this the future, slave labor at slave wages?
When did Huxley's Brave New world become our reality? This has been a little
off the main topic of violent crime, but if you're allowed to rant, then so am
I.
Rather than jump into the fray on this blog-initiated thread, I'd
like to relate the facts of a recent theft last Tuesday that caused
one of Jim Graham's posts to strike a chord with me, and let folks
decide if it is relevant to the discussion. I owen an old SUV, not a
bigger gasoline guzzling model, but with enough clearance from the
ground to make it a target for catalytic converter thieves, one of
whom struck me. He also cut a transmission line, so I wasn't able to
drive it to the dealer who quoted me $2,000 dollars for a starting
estimate; I managed to get it to a local independent shop before it
stopped shifting and moving completely. I'd be surprised if the thief
got more than $100 for the part, although I suppose if he was part of
a sophisticated operation they might break many converters down and
smelt out the precious metals in them into something far more
negotiable than an exhaust system part (platinum is going for over
$2,000 dollars an ounce today). I frankly don't see the attraction of
the activity unless it is part of a much larger operation, so I tend
to think that there is something to much of what both sides say in
this exchange.
It turns out that a neighbor saw the theft and called me after a
neighborhood alert was put out. I thought it might have happened any
time in the last several days I had not driven the car, but this
neighbor related that it happened early Tuesday morning as I showered
and shaved within the hour prior to my medical appointment at 8 A.M.;
a white guy of medium height with dark shorter hair moved rather
quickly away from my car holding something described as "like a
dinner plate," got into a red tow truck with a dark haired white
woman in the passenger seat, and drove off. The neighbor saw them
again a few blocks away and noticed a business phone number on the
side, but could not recall it or the name save "__ Towing," but noted
that the area code did start with a '7' so that it wasn't a big leap
to think this truck was based out of the 763-area code and belonged
to a business in the Northwest Metro. All of this information was
added to the 311-crime report I filed online after my appointment
that Tuesday morning; I had to tell a 311 operator the new info
because you can't add to a case file online (in any way I could find,
anyway, and it was very unlikely a police investigator would look at
the file at this point). I still don't have high hopes for MPD or
anyone else catching the guy. I'm just thankful I kept comprehensive
insurance and it will only cost me a few hundred dollars, not that I
can even afford that.
I do tend to think that our law enforcement efforts are at cross
purposes across the Metro and what local police departments do within
their jurisdictions can seem pretty pointless to me at times. When
they spend so much time on stuff that could be dealt with through
social services more effectively, instead of working across
jurisdictions to better handle the folks really responsible for most
crime. It sure seems like we are a thieves paradise when police are
so tied up dealing with violent crime and herding around the folks
Guy Gambill champions one place or another.
While I don't exactly agree with the revolving door descriptor, I
certainly wish that the ex-convicts were much more restricted than
they are today in this country. Until we really get a handle on the
correctional system that serves as the university for the career
criminal and turn it into something with a hope for rehabilitation, I
think these folks need to be separated from society at large for a
time until the damage done to them before and during prison can be
undone, e.g., some postgraduate work is needed to turn them into
human beings who can function as good citizens.
I pretty much have an aversion to much of what has been said on both
sides of this discussion because I view all behavior in terms of
evolutionary ecology. You can explain human behavior much more
accurately with animal behavior models than any social science
paradigm that is typically used, and our expectations of folks to
rise above their instincts for survival is naive. Our way of life
depends upon honoring a social compact that has been broken for
decades and I can agree with much of what Jim has expressed in this
same vein; but I can also agree with Guy that our police and other
government agency are not focused where they should be.
I should have my SUV back Tuesday, but I'm not certain I can afford
to keep it if it is going to be harvested for precious metals this
way on a regular basis. I know MPD can't stop the harvest because
they are too busy afflicting the afflicted and solving violent crimes
to do anything else. Something is pretty wrong with that situation,
wherever you fall on the arguments in this thread and those it spawned.