From:
Tim Kerr
Date:
Aug 01 02:40 UTC
Short link
Hi Irinka,
If places like the Purchas St lot you are criticising do not suit people
then they will not get enough tenants/owners to make them viable. (As has
happened in Auckland) The 'cost' to those who invested in such projects is
loss of capital. It happens.
Now, if - and I do not think it will happen... If, we suddenly have food
shortages then tin-pot construction like the Purchas St one will quite
easily be torn down.
Whether the place would be converted to cropping or horticultural use would
then be a moot point. The bare land may we be more important (i.e., worth
more) set up as a caravan park...or something...
You cannot grow food to feed the hungry masses while the rates are higher
than the income. Purchase St converted to a food garden would probably come
under that category.
Just because the city suddenly runs out of food (because four days have
passed and no trucks have arrived according to your scenario) it does not
mean that the CCC suddenly reduces the rates to a level able to sustain the
growing of produce on inner city land.
Jo Colgan, a property developer and new contributor to this forum has tried
to explain why some places are pulled down and replaced with less attractive
buildings. In the end, someone wants to use the property. They cannot use it
if rules state it has to be earthquake-proofed, the zone no longer applies
or it has difficult access, window display area, car-parking etc.
To some degree the perceived earthquake danger can act as too strong an
incentive for demolition. The fact is, earthquakes of building-demolishing
intensity are relatively rare. Those that are likely to collapse are -
relatively - small compared to modern earthquake-proof structures. Thus few
people would be in them in the event of an earthquake. Add the possibility
an earthquake occurs at night (50/50 chance of that - closer to 60/50 if you
count the hours from 1800 to 0800 as "night" hours) when few, if any are in
the building... and you get something like a reasonable cost/benefit ratio.
To make the point more clear, some part of Christchurch Hospital is under
strength. If an earthquake occurs the building might (I emphasise MIGHT)
collapse. Those in it may be killed or injured. The cost to replace the
building with a complying one is quite a few million dollars. If NOT
replaced that leaves quite a few million bucks to pick up the pieces from
the rest of a devastated city - a few stuck in hospital may die but
represent far fewer deaths than the many outside the hospital where the
resources would be better spent or invested....(But I bet the hospital will
be replaced)
To preserve heritage building (as Jo Coglan pointed out) you need to have
people who WANT to use them, regulations that allow affordable conversion of
the building into something usable, some sort of visible sign as to the
standard of earthquake proofing so Armageddon-fixated persons can choose to
avoid entering the building, and up-to-date technology that allows
relatively inexpensive up-grading of older buildings.
It is sad to see old building disappear but sometimes it is better to let
old buildings gradually disappear than to have some sort of regulation that
firstly forces owners to retain their old buildings and secondly requires
new buildings to emulate the style of the period being protected. A classic
example of this is Napier. This city has some marvelous art deco
architecture. However, instead of preserving the art deco buildings many
property developers have taken the "theme" on board and have built modern
renditions in the art deco style. To do this they have knocked down pre-art
deco wooden buildings along the Napier foreshore and replaced them with
their architectural art deco interpretations.
Now, you may think I am a little cynical... but have you ever seen an
architect "interpret" anything? Yep, he (it is usually a "he") adds his own
interpretations to a style and ends up incorporating stuff that is not
within the style at all. He produces synthetic abominations finally creating
a fairy-tale fantasy of frivolous fuck-ups that ultimately spread through
the historic area dominating and drowning out the true heritage buildings.
Oh, if Napier is too far away go take a look at Arrowtown. Its original
buildings have been utterly ruined by owners and the tenants - but they
still collect a few tourist pennies.
I do not know what the answer is. Perhaps, if you want to "save" a building
or precinct then it has to be registered as a museum and isolated from any
economic activity.
But the answer is neither regulation nor enforced compliance codes.
Although there are beautiful places in Europe where buildings take on a
delightful uniformity that blends into the surroundings one has to remember
that many of these places are now satellite towns with most economic
activity taking place in nearby grey cities...
It is a worthy topic - anyone any ideas?
Cheers,
Tim Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike and Irinka Britnell" <<email obscured>>
To: <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions Loss of Heritage
> It's all about the value we place on our heritage of character buildings,
> homes, trees and gardens. Are we not the Garden City?
> We in Christchurch as a community including our city council (for they
> write
> the rules that allow or disallow the building conditions), have lost our
> way
> with no comprehensive overall vision for our city.
>
> We are also loosing our vision for quality of life for our citizens.
> I don't know if anyone has seen the horrific 5 storey, thin concrete
> cubbyhole, with small windows, developement proposal for Purchase St and
> Madras St Block to go from L 3 to L5?. Hundreds of appartments which are
> small and pokey with no proper parking and a tiny recreation facility for
> all. Developements like this have no concern for the food shortage
> problems
> of the future, as in we are going to need more people planting their own
> gardens. ( There is only 3 days supply in our supermarkets if for any
> reason
> the supply trucks were to stop running). What about the quality of life
> for
> the consumer who will have no room for a hobby or recreation. Where will
> the
> children play? Never mind the CCC stipulation for required green space
> per
> ratio of population.
>
> It's a cop out to say ' Unfortunately that is the climate we are in and
> this
> work has to be done...'
> Is that what the Maori say, when they are trying to not only save, but
> also
> rebuild their Heritage?
> I think we could take a leaf out of their book and show some respect for
> our
> ancestors and those who helped build our nation before us.
> Every time you wipe out Heritage, you are wiping our 'our stories'. Like
> the
> lovely history that Brian just shared with us about the lady who helped
> the
> war verterans at the Ozone Hotel. I am also incensed at the lack of
> respect
> and that someone should choose to pull it down. Everything is restorable
> and
> we should be lobbying the CCC and the powers that be to increase the
> budget
> to incentivise people with heritage buildings, to assist them protect
> them.
>
> We have been in the Tourism business for 12 years - They tell us how much
> they love this Garden - Heritage Character City - It is our 'point of
> difference' and uniqueness. We do not want to build ourselves a city that
> just looks like any other modern city.
> How do the countries of Europe get on saving their heritage buildings?
> By not buying in to some psuedo modern shallow philosphy, that will
> continue
> to be churned out by greedy bureacrats, desperate to make their mark, with
> no thought for the future generations.
> Irinka
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Colgan" <<email obscured>>
> To: <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions
>
>
>> As someone who works in the property development/construction sector, I
>> too lament the loss of historic buildings but the economic reality of
>> refurbishment of buildings such as this is harsh; bringing old buildings
>> to even 1/3rd of code compliance (often 2/3rds) with respect to
>> earthquake strengthenging is usually an onerous and expensive task.
>> Unfortunately that is the climate we are in and this work has to be done
>> if the building is to be safely inhabited.
>> Building owners/developers are faced with costs that make the proposal
>> return less than could be gained by leaving monies deposit, they are
>> mindful of the need to return a profit and maintain their business and
>> the funding difficulties and risk premium placed on undertaking
>> refurbishments with the inherent unknowns that accompany such a venture,
>> force them to seek easier, more fundable, lower risk options and often
>> demolition and new build is the obvious one. That or find a greenfield
>> site.
>> It is not always a free choice.
>> Regards,
>>
>> Joe.
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: graeme stanley [mailto:<email obscured>]
>> Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 4:27 p.m.
>> To: Canterbury Public Issues Forum
>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions
>>
>>
>> Hi Brian, I am deeply saddened by your news that The Historic Ozone
>> Hotel has been sold and that demolition has been tendered for. This
>> holiday resort hotel was built by Mrs Isabella Hucks in 1914. The hotel
>> has some unique features including distinctive leadlights and prominent
>> fenestration and the dining room was built with special narrow boards
>> for dancing At the end of WW1 Mother Hucks as she was known allowed the
>> Veterans Association to use the hotel for twelve months. It was to be
>> the first invalids soldiers home in New Zealand. There was a disasterous
>> fire in 1922 It was gutted. A strong-minded Mrs Hucks completely rebuilt
>> it and it opened one year after the fire. Mrs Hucks was also the
>> proprietor of The Theatre Royal Cafe and Bellvue Boardinghouse in
>> Gloucester ST. Other unique buildings around here are OZONE DRESSING
>> SHEDS &OZONE STORES with its distinctive dome on cnr. across the road. I
>> am endeavouring to find out more on this story.North Beach was a barren
>> wast
>> eland of sand before 1911 when a loan was raised for road formation
>> Thanks Brian for information and also for webcam from New Brighton
>> Pier.Cheers, Graeme Stanley.
>>
>>
>> graeme stanley
>> ST ALBANS, CHRISTCHURCH
>> Info about graeme stanley: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/graemestanley
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2A1cLTsE2HtkzOlPebfGEO
>> -----------------------------------------
>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>>
>> More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>
>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> WARNING:
>> This email contains information that is CONFIDENTIAL and may be subject
>> to LEGAL PRIVILEGE. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not
>> peruse, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this email or attachments.
>> If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by
>> return email, facsimile or telephone (call us collect) and delete this
>> email. Arrow International Limited accepts no responsibility for
>> changes made to this email or to any attachments after transmission from
>> Arrow International Limited. Thank you.
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> Corporate signoff created by Fluid Software Ltd web:
>> www.fluidsoftware.co.nz
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> Joe Colgan
>> Merivale/St. Albans, Christchurch
>> Info about Joe Colgan:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1WCV77ccw80U47vRhxCRGu
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1dORLayB0AetBv2x6Ca8YC
>> -----------------------------------------
>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>>
>> More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>
>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1578 - Release Date: 7/28/2008
>> 5:13 PM
>>
>>
>
>
> Irinka Britnell
> Englefield Historic Neighbourhood Precinct, Christchurch
> Info about Irinka Britnell: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/irinkabritnell
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/25VUPEKjP6dFQRpejYvoCO
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>
> More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008
3:51 PM
From:
Irinka Britnell
Date:
Aug 01 04:38 UTC
Short link
Hi Tim
No I'm not suggesting turning the Purcase St allotment into a vege garden -
but it's not a bad idea either. I'm just suggesting caution and to think
about what type of city we are creating, to have appropriate and caring
development. To have room for veges if we want them. Care for the people
and care for the character. Care for what we are loosing.
The Aukland development mentioned as 'not wanted' - but it's too late we are
stuck with it. People sometimes don't have choices and are forced to live in
these places because that is all there is.
Case in point re empty allotments and heritage, and I think I spy a few
others is:
Next door to us on Worcester Street was a lovely old villa home with veranda
and two bay windows at the front . It was one of four all in a row. The
overseas absentee landlord decided to pull it down and put up 3 x ugly
utilitarian 2 story flats.
The problem was he was allowed to pull the house down before he had approval
for his plans. How can that be allowed?
The neighbours objected as the building was too close to their fence line.
So now the empty allotment has sat there for two years with rubbish
gathering and nothing happening. He has been caught out by paying
$230,000.00 for land and house, but no one is going to pay that for land
only in Linwood and then pay for building on top. Even building two flats
will not give enough profit for the investment. So the land was worth more
with the original house on it which was already split into two flats. He
just needed to 'spend that money on it' to bring it up to speed. Now he has
been loosing for two years and the gap looks like a missing tooth.
On earthquake strenthening
We have had to do some on our old buildings - it's an expensive pain. But
sometimes some things have to be a labour of love. I wish it was possible to
get real dollar value for all the energy output one does.I comfort myself
with the thought that quality of life is worth that extra mile. Smile.
People should be encouraged to plant veges this spring especially with the
rising prices of everything. I might even put a vege patch in that empty
allotment if I see nothing happening there this Spring!
Nice to hear your opinion Jo, thanks for the debate.
Irinka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Kerr" <<email obscured>>
To: <<email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Loss of Heritage
> Hi Irinka,
>
> If places like the Purchas St lot you are criticising do not suit people
> then they will not get enough tenants/owners to make them viable. (As has
> happened in Auckland) The 'cost' to those who invested in such projects is
> loss of capital. It happens.
>
> Now, if - and I do not think it will happen... If, we suddenly have food
> shortages then tin-pot construction like the Purchas St one will quite
> easily be torn down.
>
> Whether the place would be converted to cropping or horticultural use
> would
> then be a moot point. The bare land may we be more important (i.e., worth
> more) set up as a caravan park...or something...
>
> You cannot grow food to feed the hungry masses while the rates are higher
> than the income. Purchase St converted to a food garden would probably
> come
> under that category.
>
> Just because the city suddenly runs out of food (because four days have
> passed and no trucks have arrived according to your scenario) it does not
> mean that the CCC suddenly reduces the rates to a level able to sustain
> the
> growing of produce on inner city land.
>
> Jo Colgan, a property developer and new contributor to this forum has
> tried
> to explain why some places are pulled down and replaced with less
> attractive
> buildings. In the end, someone wants to use the property. They cannot use
> it
> if rules state it has to be earthquake-proofed, the zone no longer applies
> or it has difficult access, window display area, car-parking etc.
>
> To some degree the perceived earthquake danger can act as too strong an
> incentive for demolition. The fact is, earthquakes of building-demolishing
> intensity are relatively rare. Those that are likely to collapse are -
> relatively - small compared to modern earthquake-proof structures. Thus
> few
> people would be in them in the event of an earthquake. Add the possibility
> an earthquake occurs at night (50/50 chance of that - closer to 60/50 if
> you
> count the hours from 1800 to 0800 as "night" hours) when few, if any are
> in
> the building... and you get something like a reasonable cost/benefit
> ratio.
>
> To make the point more clear, some part of Christchurch Hospital is under
> strength. If an earthquake occurs the building might (I emphasise MIGHT)
> collapse. Those in it may be killed or injured. The cost to replace the
> building with a complying one is quite a few million dollars. If NOT
> replaced that leaves quite a few million bucks to pick up the pieces from
> the rest of a devastated city - a few stuck in hospital may die but
> represent far fewer deaths than the many outside the hospital where the
> resources would be better spent or invested....(But I bet the hospital
> will
> be replaced)
>
> To preserve heritage building (as Jo Coglan pointed out) you need to have
> people who WANT to use them, regulations that allow affordable conversion
> of
> the building into something usable, some sort of visible sign as to the
> standard of earthquake proofing so Armageddon-fixated persons can choose
> to
> avoid entering the building, and up-to-date technology that allows
> relatively inexpensive up-grading of older buildings.
>
> It is sad to see old building disappear but sometimes it is better to let
> old buildings gradually disappear than to have some sort of regulation
> that
> firstly forces owners to retain their old buildings and secondly requires
> new buildings to emulate the style of the period being protected. A
> classic
> example of this is Napier. This city has some marvelous art deco
> architecture. However, instead of preserving the art deco buildings many
> property developers have taken the "theme" on board and have built modern
> renditions in the art deco style. To do this they have knocked down
> pre-art
> deco wooden buildings along the Napier foreshore and replaced them with
> their architectural art deco interpretations.
>
> Now, you may think I am a little cynical... but have you ever seen an
> architect "interpret" anything? Yep, he (it is usually a "he") adds his
> own
> interpretations to a style and ends up incorporating stuff that is not
> within the style at all. He produces synthetic abominations finally
> creating
> a fairy-tale fantasy of frivolous fuck-ups that ultimately spread through
> the historic area dominating and drowning out the true heritage buildings.
>
> Oh, if Napier is too far away go take a look at Arrowtown. Its original
> buildings have been utterly ruined by owners and the tenants - but they
> still collect a few tourist pennies.
>
> I do not know what the answer is. Perhaps, if you want to "save" a
> building
> or precinct then it has to be registered as a museum and isolated from any
> economic activity.
>
> But the answer is neither regulation nor enforced compliance codes.
>
> Although there are beautiful places in Europe where buildings take on a
> delightful uniformity that blends into the surroundings one has to
> remember
> that many of these places are now satellite towns with most economic
> activity taking place in nearby grey cities...
>
> It is a worthy topic - anyone any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
> Tim Kerr
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike and Irinka Britnell" <<email obscured>>
> To: <<email obscured>>
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions Loss of Heritage
>
>
>> It's all about the value we place on our heritage of character buildings,
>> homes, trees and gardens. Are we not the Garden City?
>> We in Christchurch as a community including our city council (for they
>> write
>> the rules that allow or disallow the building conditions), have lost our
>> way
>> with no comprehensive overall vision for our city.
>>
>> We are also loosing our vision for quality of life for our citizens.
>> I don't know if anyone has seen the horrific 5 storey, thin concrete
>> cubbyhole, with small windows, developement proposal for Purchase St and
>> Madras St Block to go from L 3 to L5?. Hundreds of appartments which are
>> small and pokey with no proper parking and a tiny recreation facility for
>> all. Developements like this have no concern for the food shortage
>> problems
>> of the future, as in we are going to need more people planting their own
>> gardens. ( There is only 3 days supply in our supermarkets if for any
>> reason
>> the supply trucks were to stop running). What about the quality of life
>> for
>> the consumer who will have no room for a hobby or recreation. Where will
>> the
>> children play? Never mind the CCC stipulation for required green space
>> per
>> ratio of population.
>>
>> It's a cop out to say ' Unfortunately that is the climate we are in and
>> this
>> work has to be done...'
>> Is that what the Maori say, when they are trying to not only save, but
>> also
>> rebuild their Heritage?
>> I think we could take a leaf out of their book and show some respect for
>> our
>> ancestors and those who helped build our nation before us.
>> Every time you wipe out Heritage, you are wiping our 'our stories'. Like
>> the
>> lovely history that Brian just shared with us about the lady who helped
>> the
>> war verterans at the Ozone Hotel. I am also incensed at the lack of
>> respect
>> and that someone should choose to pull it down. Everything is restorable
>> and
>> we should be lobbying the CCC and the powers that be to increase the
>> budget
>> to incentivise people with heritage buildings, to assist them protect
>> them.
>>
>> We have been in the Tourism business for 12 years - They tell us how much
>> they love this Garden - Heritage Character City - It is our 'point of
>> difference' and uniqueness. We do not want to build ourselves a city that
>> just looks like any other modern city.
>> How do the countries of Europe get on saving their heritage buildings?
>> By not buying in to some psuedo modern shallow philosphy, that will
>> continue
>> to be churned out by greedy bureacrats, desperate to make their mark,
>> with
>> no thought for the future generations.
>> Irinka
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Colgan" <<email obscured>>
>> To: <<email obscured>>
>> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions
>>
>>
>>> As someone who works in the property development/construction sector, I
>>> too lament the loss of historic buildings but the economic reality of
>>> refurbishment of buildings such as this is harsh; bringing old buildings
>>> to even 1/3rd of code compliance (often 2/3rds) with respect to
>>> earthquake strengthenging is usually an onerous and expensive task.
>>> Unfortunately that is the climate we are in and this work has to be done
>>> if the building is to be safely inhabited.
>>> Building owners/developers are faced with costs that make the proposal
>>> return less than could be gained by leaving monies deposit, they are
>>> mindful of the need to return a profit and maintain their business and
>>> the funding difficulties and risk premium placed on undertaking
>>> refurbishments with the inherent unknowns that accompany such a venture,
>>> force them to seek easier, more fundable, lower risk options and often
>>> demolition and new build is the obvious one. That or find a greenfield
>>> site.
>>> It is not always a free choice.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joe.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: graeme stanley [mailto:<email obscured>]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 4:27 p.m.
>>> To: Canterbury Public Issues Forum
>>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Brian, I am deeply saddened by your news that The Historic Ozone
>>> Hotel has been sold and that demolition has been tendered for. This
>>> holiday resort hotel was built by Mrs Isabella Hucks in 1914. The hotel
>>> has some unique features including distinctive leadlights and prominent
>>> fenestration and the dining room was built with special narrow boards
>>> for dancing At the end of WW1 Mother Hucks as she was known allowed the
>>> Veterans Association to use the hotel for twelve months. It was to be
>>> the first invalids soldiers home in New Zealand. There was a disasterous
>>> fire in 1922 It was gutted. A strong-minded Mrs Hucks completely rebuilt
>>> it and it opened one year after the fire. Mrs Hucks was also the
>>> proprietor of The Theatre Royal Cafe and Bellvue Boardinghouse in
>>> Gloucester ST. Other unique buildings around here are OZONE DRESSING
>>> SHEDS &OZONE STORES with its distinctive dome on cnr. across the road. I
>>> am endeavouring to find out more on this story.North Beach was a barren
>>> wast
>>> eland of sand before 1911 when a loan was raised for road formation
>>> Thanks Brian for information and also for webcam from New Brighton
>>> Pier.Cheers, Graeme Stanley.
>>>
>>>
>>> graeme stanley
>>> ST ALBANS, CHRISTCHURCH
>>> Info about graeme stanley: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/graemestanley
>>>
>>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2A1cLTsE2HtkzOlPebfGEO
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>>>
>>> More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>>
>>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> WARNING:
>>> This email contains information that is CONFIDENTIAL and may be subject
>>> to LEGAL PRIVILEGE. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not
>>> peruse, use, disseminate, distribute or copy this email or attachments.
>>> If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by
>>> return email, facsimile or telephone (call us collect) and delete this
>>> email. Arrow International Limited accepts no responsibility for
>>> changes made to this email or to any attachments after transmission from
>>> Arrow International Limited. Thank you.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> Corporate signoff created by Fluid Software Ltd web:
>>> www.fluidsoftware.co.nz
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe Colgan
>>> Merivale/St. Albans, Christchurch
>>> Info about Joe Colgan:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/1WCV77ccw80U47vRhxCRGu
>>>
>>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/1dORLayB0AetBv2x6Ca8YC
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> To post, send your message to: <email obscured>
>>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on,"
>>> in subject line and send to: <email obscured>
>>>
>>> More info about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>>
>>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG.
>>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.6/1578 - Release Date:
>>> 7/28/2008
>>> 5:13 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Irinka Britnell
>> Englefield Historic Neighbourhood Precinct, Christchurch
>> Info about Irinka Britnell:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/irinkabritnell
>>
>> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/25VUPEKjP6dFQRpejYvoCO
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From:
Brendon Burns
Date:
Aug 02 04:21 UTC
Short link
Hi Irinka, Tim, Graeme...
Having flooded the Auckland market with sometimes truly cheap and nasty shoebox
apartments that are now selling for half their original price, some developers
have set their sights on Christchurch.
We've seen what happened to the Caledonian site - a near doubling of the
original number of units, with no community input; I am not that confident,
therefore, about the Orion site development. Perhaps the current downturn in
construction may provide us some breathing space.
Many people do want the benefits of inner-city apartment living. There are
around 8000 people already living in the central city. The new apartment
buildings have delivered the fastest growth rate of any area in Christchurch.
That’s part economics and part lifestyle. Restoring and maintaining an older
home to a point where it is warm and liveable is not a cheap option. I spent
six years restoring a 1905 Edwardian home. But when it came time to move,
there was nothing to stop the next owner bowling it over if he wished. Having
heritage buildings listed is no absolute protection; even some class 2 listed
buildings are falling to the demolition hammer.
I predict that fuel prices may be the key to some major and potentially
positive changes. Ponsonby, now a choice Auckland suburb, began to change from
an urban slum during the first oil shock in the mid 70s. Now it is row after
row of pristine villas priced from $600,000 upwards - unrenovated! I reckon the
inner city, Linwood, Phillipstown will become "Ponsonbyfied." The key is to
whether it can be done in a way which retains heritage homes - as Auckland's
council has done - and also keeps some affordable housing for low and modest
income earners.
The Urban Development Strategy focuses on intensifying population growth in the
inner city, relieving pressure on the outer perimeters. That makes sense from
the point of view of environmental sustainability but it will challenge our
heritage values.
There is some potentially good news here. A plan change is underway at the city
council for the current town plan. Signals are it may strengthen protection for
heritage buildings and for community input in suburbs that adjoin the central
city.
Unfortunately, this may not apply to our inner city, where arguably the need
for heritage protection is greatest. The cultural precinct is at the heart of
our tourism strategy. It is the heritage of the inner city that marks
Christchurch as different and appealing.
The council’s plan change may give more weight to the concerns of suburban
residents in future but it is unclear what, if any, new or increased protection
may emerge for inner city heritage buildings. They are too important to have a
policy which is framed around 'watch this space.'
Brendon Burns
From:
graeme stanley
Date:
Aug 02 05:33 UTC
Short link
Hi Brendon, Irinka,Brian,Tim, Brendon I am aware of a plan change that is
underay at C.C.C. for the current town plan and will be following it as it
unfolds with interestI note your point that it is unclear any new or increased
protection there will be for heritage of our inner city.This afternoon whilst
listening to two friends singing in "Women in Harmony" outside Trade Aid in
City Mall for Amnesty International I had occasion in the sun to reflect on
the many historic building down the mall from the impressive columns of The
Bridge of Remembrance. We are spending as a city megadollars on an upgrade of
Citymall and there are many magnificent historic buildings including a rather
tatty Bells Arcade constructed in 1881 a Three storey brick building with
Distinctive Venetian Gothic detailing The windows and decorative arches and
upper decorative cornice are beautiful. This building designed by W.B. Armson
has a category one listing with The New Zealand Historic Places Trust Next door
there is another building of John Bates & Company and across the road an
original THE Press office and Whitcombe & Tombs old building designed in 1906
by Collins & Harman Further down we have The old Gothic Styled Zetland Hotel
constructed in 1903 by significant architect Joseph Maddison Other famous early
businesses in City Mall were Fails Cafe Turnbull& Jones ,there building sits on
cnr City Mall & Oxford TCE. We cannot afford to allow these touchstones of our
past livesto be wantonly destroyed Heritage building humanise us . and as
Irinka said in a previous post they all have there stories.which should be told
for generations to come.Carpe diem to look up at City Mall next time you do a
little stroll. Cheers, Graeme
From:
Garry Moore
Date:
Aug 02 06:09 UTC
Short link
Graeme
When we signed off on the upgrade of the Mall (which was really needed) the
Council was challenged during the submission process to look above the existing
verandas by the Historic Places Trust. We were amazed and the Mall design was
changed as a result of the submission.
My hope is that just as Lower High Street was enhanced by CCC going halves in
the painting of the Historic facades of the buildings (and its subsequent
revival as a retail area) with the large public investment in the Mall we might
see new investment in the buildings by the multitude of owners along Cashel
Street. We have already seen a brave investment by the owner of the buildings
down Upper High Street, where the Mall has nearly been completed, and that area
looks great. I trust as the Mall is completed that the other owners will
respond with equal passion as Michael has with his buildings. We need an
increase in foot traffic and customers to encourage new investment in the state
of buildings and new retail options. I am confident that this will happen.
Like lots of people I am sick of the shopping Malls and avoid them like the
plague.
Garry Moore
-----Original Message-----
From: graeme stanley [mailto:<email obscured>]
Sent: Saturday, 2 August 2008 5:36 p.m.
To: Canterbury Public Issues Forum
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Loss of Heritage
Hi Brendon, Irinka,Brian,Tim, Brendon I am aware of a plan change that is
underay at C.C.C. for the current town plan and will be following it as it
unfolds with interestI note your point that it is unclear any new or increased
protection there will be for heritage of our inner city.This afternoon whilst
listening to two friends singing in "Women in Harmony" outside Trade Aid in
City Mall for Amnesty International I had occasion in the sun to reflect on
the many historic building down the mall from the impressive columns of The
Bridge of Remembrance. We are spending as a city megadollars on an upgrade of
Citymall and there are many magnificent historic buildings including a rather
tatty Bells Arcade constructed in 1881 a Three storey brick building with
Distinctive Venetian Gothic detailing The windows and decorative arches and
upper decorative cornice are beautiful. This building designed by W.B. Armson
has a category one listing with The New Zealand Historic Places Trust
Next door there is another building of John Bates & Company and across the
road an original THE Press office and Whitcombe & Tombs old building designed
in 1906 by Collins & Harman Further down we have The old Gothic Styled Zetland
Hotel constructed in 1903 by significant architect Joseph Maddison Other famous
early businesses in City Mall were Fails Cafe Turnbull& Jones ,there building
sits on cnr City Mall & Oxford TCE. We cannot afford to allow these touchstones
of our past livesto be wantonly destroyed Heritage building humanise us . and
as Irinka said in a previous post they all have there stories.which should be
told for generations to come.Carpe diem to look up at City Mall next time you
do a little stroll. Cheers, Graeme
graeme stanley
ST ALBANS, CHRISTCHURCH
Info about graeme stanley: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/graemestanley
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From:
graeme stanley
Date:
Aug 02 21:14 UTC
Short link
Hi Garry,I hope you are right about that City Mall owners will get behind the
upgrade and do up there buildings comparable with Lower High St Precinct. I was
not at first convinced City Mall was worth this upgrade but after reflection
yesterday & having done at least six heritage walk,n, talks along the Lower
High Street Precinct into which I include the beauty of our Catholic Cathedral
as a backdrop and the other historic buildings like Community of the Sacred
Name amd Nurse Maude HQ. I often now sincerely thank quietly the vision of The
Dave Hendersons and The Heritage Trusts Excelsior Hotel and other buildings
and other individual developers/retailers like McKenzie &Willis, who together
with Dave Hinman & the Heritage Solutions Team at C.C.C. (not sure of there
name.) transformed High st. Thanks also to the courage of developers like Lisle
Hood & Paul Bradley etc as they toil away behind in the Lichfield &TuamSts
Poplar Lanes area working magic on these interesting buildings.Most of us are
too busy rushing from A--B to appreciate what a wonderfulinner city we
have.There are many interesting individual heritage buildings in the inner city
I watch concerned about including "Highlight House on the Cashel /Manchestersts
cnr. Have a look up above the verandahs there at Thomas Lamberts decorative
detailing& quality of design Another Cashel Street shop & building not many
are aware of is Stewart Dawsons Building on City Mall cnr High St& Cashel ST.
Its magnificent glass window viewed by standing in its doorway a little gem as
is window on upper floor.A landmark building for me has always been Fishers
Building on High St/Hereford St cnr. I have appreciated walking up the old
staircase to talk to Lawrie Hanafin in his corner office occasionally I shop
more frequently in the city now at REAL GROOVY in S.O.L. &Tuam St. or to eat at
Mitchelinis in Poplar Lanes or a drink at Twisted Hop but more latterly
Pomeroys Historic Hotel. Cheers, Graeme.
From:
Joy Bishop
Date:
Aug 03 00:11 UTC
Short link
Hi Irinka
I sympathise with you and your neighbouring property. What a darn shame and
yes we do have to bite the bullet and earthquake proof etc its worth it in the
long run. We have only to look to cities and countries across the world that
do and have saved their heritage and see how well they are doing and much
better these places look.
Good on your for contemplating the vege garden in the empty land. You could
try involving other neighbours and halve the work. I wish you luck. Joy
Mike and Irinka Britnell <<email obscured>> wrote:
Hi Tim
No I'm not suggesting turning the Purcase St allotment into a vege garden -
but it's not a bad idea either. I'm just suggesting caution and to think
about what type of city we are creating, to have appropriate and caring
development. To have room for veges if we want them. Care for the people
and care for the character. Care for what we are loosing.
The Aukland development mentioned as 'not wanted' - but it's too late we are
stuck with it. People sometimes don't have choices and are forced to live in
these places because that is all there is.
Case in point re empty allotments and heritage, and I think I spy a few
others is:
Next door to us on Worcester Street was a lovely old villa home with veranda
and two bay windows at the front . It was one of four all in a row. The
overseas absentee landlord decided to pull it down and put up 3 x ugly
utilitarian 2 story flats.
The problem was he was allowed to pull the house down before he had approval
for his plans. How can that be allowed?
The neighbours objected as the building was too close to their fence line.
So now the empty allotment has sat there for two years with rubbish
gathering and nothing happening. He has been caught out by paying
$230,000.00 for land and house, but no one is going to pay that for land
only in Linwood and then pay for building on top. Even building two flats
will not give enough profit for the investment. So the land was worth more
with the original house on it which was already split into two flats. He
just needed to 'spend that money on it' to bring it up to speed. Now he has
been loosing for two years and the gap looks like a missing tooth.
On earthquake strenthening
We have had to do some on our old buildings - it's an expensive pain. But
sometimes some things have to be a labour of love. I wish it was possible to
get real dollar value for all the energy output one does.I comfort myself
with the thought that quality of life is worth that extra mile. Smile.
People should be encouraged to plant veges this spring especially with the
rising prices of everything. I might even put a vege patch in that empty
allotment if I see nothing happening there this Spring!
Nice to hear your opinion Jo, thanks for the debate.
Irinka
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Kerr"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Loss of Heritage
> Hi Irinka,
>
> If places like the Purchas St lot you are criticising do not suit people
> then they will not get enough tenants/owners to make them viable. (As has
> happened in Auckland) The 'cost' to those who invested in such projects is
> loss of capital. It happens.
>
> Now, if - and I do not think it will happen... If, we suddenly have food
> shortages then tin-pot construction like the Purchas St one will quite
> easily be torn down.
>
> Whether the place would be converted to cropping or horticultural use
> would
> then be a moot point. The bare land may we be more important (i.e., worth
> more) set up as a caravan park...or something...
>
> You cannot grow food to feed the hungry masses while the rates are higher
> than the income. Purchase St converted to a food garden would probably
> come
> under that category.
>
> Just because the city suddenly runs out of food (because four days have
> passed and no trucks have arrived according to your scenario) it does not
> mean that the CCC suddenly reduces the rates to a level able to sustain
> the
> growing of produce on inner city land.
>
> Jo Colgan, a property developer and new contributor to this forum has
> tried
> to explain why some places are pulled down and replaced with less
> attractive
> buildings. In the end, someone wants to use the property. They cannot use
> it
> if rules state it has to be earthquake-proofed, the zone no longer applies
> or it has difficult access, window display area, car-parking etc.
>
> To some degree the perceived earthquake danger can act as too strong an
> incentive for demolition. The fact is, earthquakes of building-demolishing
> intensity are relatively rare. Those that are likely to collapse are -
> relatively - small compared to modern earthquake-proof structures. Thus
> few
> people would be in them in the event of an earthquake. Add the possibility
> an earthquake occurs at night (50/50 chance of that - closer to 60/50 if
> you
> count the hours from 1800 to 0800 as "night" hours) when few, if any are
> in
> the building... and you get something like a reasonable cost/benefit
> ratio.
>
> To make the point more clear, some part of Christchurch Hospital is under
> strength. If an earthquake occurs the building might (I emphasise MIGHT)
> collapse. Those in it may be killed or injured. The cost to replace the
> building with a complying one is quite a few million dollars. If NOT
> replaced that leaves quite a few million bucks to pick up the pieces from
> the rest of a devastated city - a few stuck in hospital may die but
> represent far fewer deaths than the many outside the hospital where the
> resources would be better spent or invested....(But I bet the hospital
> will
> be replaced)
>
> To preserve heritage building (as Jo Coglan pointed out) you need to have
> people who WANT to use them, regulations that allow affordable conversion
> of
> the building into something usable, some sort of visible sign as to the
> standard of earthquake proofing so Armageddon-fixated persons can choose
> to
> avoid entering the building, and up-to-date technology that allows
> relatively inexpensive up-grading of older buildings.
>
> It is sad to see old building disappear but sometimes it is better to let
> old buildings gradually disappear than to have some sort of regulation
> that
> firstly forces owners to retain their old buildings and secondly requires
> new buildings to emulate the style of the period being protected. A
> classic
> example of this is Napier. This city has some marvelous art deco
> architecture. However, instead of preserving the art deco buildings many
> property developers have taken the "theme" on board and have built modern
> renditions in the art deco style. To do this they have knocked down
> pre-art
> deco wooden buildings along the Napier foreshore and replaced them with
> their architectural art deco interpretations.
>
> Now, you may think I am a little cynical... but have you ever seen an
> architect "interpret" anything? Yep, he (it is usually a "he") adds his
> own
> interpretations to a style and ends up incorporating stuff that is not
> within the style at all. He produces synthetic abominations finally
> creating
> a fairy-tale fantasy of frivolous fuck-ups that ultimately spread through
> the historic area dominating and drowning out the true heritage buildings.
>
> Oh, if Napier is too far away go take a look at Arrowtown. Its original
> buildings have been utterly ruined by owners and the tenants - but they
> still collect a few tourist pennies.
>
> I do not know what the answer is. Perhaps, if you want to "save" a
> building
> or precinct then it has to be registered as a museum and isolated from any
> economic activity.
>
> But the answer is neither regulation nor enforced compliance codes.
>
> Although there are beautiful places in Europe where buildings take on a
> delightful uniformity that blends into the surroundings one has to
> remember
> that many of these places are now satellite towns with most economic
> activity taking place in nearby grey cities...
>
> It is a worthy topic - anyone any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
> Tim Kerr
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike and Irinka Britnell"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions Loss of Heritage
>
>
>> It's all about the value we place on our heritage of character buildings,
>> homes, trees and gardens. Are we not the Garden City?
>> We in Christchurch as a community including our city council (for they
>> write
>> the rules that allow or disallow the building conditions), have lost our
>> way
>> with no comprehensive overall vision for our city.
>>
>> We are also loosing our vision for quality of life for our citizens.
>> I don't know if anyone has seen the horrific 5 storey, thin concrete
>> cubbyhole, with small windows, developement proposal for Purchase St and
>> Madras St Block to go from L 3 to L5?. Hundreds of appartments which are
>> small and pokey with no proper parking and a tiny recreation facility for
>> all. Developements like this have no concern for the food shortage
>> problems
>> of the future, as in we are going to need more people planting their own
>> gardens. ( There is only 3 days supply in our supermarkets if for any
>> reason
>> the supply trucks were to stop running). What about the quality of life
>> for
>> the consumer who will have no room for a hobby or recreation. Where will
>> the
>> children play? Never mind the CCC stipulation for required green space
>> per
>> ratio of population.
>>
>> It's a cop out to say ' Unfortunately that is the climate we are in and
>> this
>> work has to be done...'
>> Is that what the Maori say, when they are trying to not only save, but
>> also
>> rebuild their Heritage?
>> I think we could take a leaf out of their book and show some respect for
>> our
>> ancestors and those who helped build our nation before us.
>> Every time you wipe out Heritage, you are wiping our 'our stories'. Like
>> the
>> lovely history that Brian just shared with us about the lady who helped
>> the
>> war verterans at the Ozone Hotel. I am also incensed at the lack of
>> respect
>> and that someone should choose to pull it down. Everything is restorable
>> and
>> we should be lobbying the CCC and the powers that be to increase the
>> budget
>> to incentivise people with heritage buildings, to assist them protect
>> them.
>>
>> We have been in the Tourism business for 12 years - They tell us how much
>> they love this Garden - Heritage Character City - It is our 'point of
>> difference' and uniqueness. We do not want to build ourselves a city that
>> just looks like any other modern city.
>> How do the countries of Europe get on saving their heritage buildings?
>> By not buying in to some psuedo modern shallow philosphy, that will
>> continue
>> to be churned out by greedy bureacrats, desperate to make their mark,
>> with
>> no thought for the future generations.
>> Irinka
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Colgan"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 10:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions
>>
>>
>>> As someone who works in the property development/construction sector, I
>>> too lament the loss of historic buildings but the economic reality of
>>> refurbishment of buildings such as this is harsh; bringing old buildings
>>> to even 1/3rd of code compliance (often 2/3rds) with respect to
>>> earthquake strengthenging is usually an onerous and expensive task.
>>> Unfortunately that is the climate we are in and this work has to be done
>>> if the building is to be safely inhabited.
>>> Building owners/developers are faced with costs that make the proposal
>>> return less than could be gained by leaving monies deposit, they are
>>> mindful of the need to return a profit and maintain their business and
>>> the funding difficulties and risk premium placed on undertaking
>>> refurbishments with the inherent unknowns that accompany such a venture,
>>> force them to seek easier, more fundable, lower risk options and often
>>> demolition and new build is the obvious one. That or find a greenfield
>>> site.
>>> It is not always a free choice.
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joe.
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: graeme stanley [mailto:<email obscured>]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2008 4:27 p.m.
>>> To: Canterbury Public Issues Forum
>>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Introductions
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Brian, I am deeply saddened by your news that The Historic Ozone
>>> Hotel has been sold and that demolition has been tendered for. This
>>> holiday resort hotel was built by Mrs Isabella Hucks in 1914. The hotel
>>> has some unique features including distinctive leadlights and prominent
>>> fenestration and the dining room was built with special narrow boards
>>> for dancing At the end of WW1 Mother Hucks as she was known allowed the
>>> Veterans Association to use the hotel for twelve months. It was to be
>>> the first invalids soldiers home in New Zealand. There was a disasterous
>>> fire in 1922 It was gutted. A strong-minded Mrs Hucks completely rebuilt
>>> it and it opened one year after the fire. Mrs Hucks was also the
>>> proprietor of The Theatre Royal Cafe and Bellvue Boardinghouse in
>>> Gloucester ST. Other unique buildings around here are OZONE DRESSING
>>> SHEDS &OZONE STORES with its distinctive dome on cnr. across the road. I
>>> am endeavouring to find out more on this story.North Beach was a barren
>>> wast
>>> eland of sand before 1911 when a loan was raised for road formation
>>> Thanks Brian for information and also for webcam from New Brighton
>>> Pier.Cheers, Graeme Stanley.
>>>
>>>
>>> graeme stanley
>>> ST ALBANS, CHRISTCHURCH
>>> Info about graeme stanley: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/graemestanley
>>>
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>>>
>>> Joe Colgan
>>> Merivale/St. Albans, Christchurch
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>>
>>
>> Irinka Britnell
>> Englefield Historic Neighbourhood Precinct, Christchurch
>> Info about Irinka Britnell:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/irinkabritnell
>>
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>
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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>
> Tim Kerr
>
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>
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Irinka Britnell
Englefield Historic Neighbourhood Precinct, Christchurch
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From:
Kevin O'Connell
Date:
Aug 03 03:36 UTC
Short link
Hi
I love old buildings and cool designs too and have many favorites around Chch,
and miss many that are now gone, but it is always good to see them looked after
and restored - in fact it is not so long ago i was helping with upkeep of
heritage buildings at Ferrymead heritage park and did some 'not too bad'
paint-jobs in my opinion!
However i am contributing here to remind people our heritage is not just
buildings, and that civic pride is also about environment and community spirit.
Sorry to bore those of you who have read my litter updates and whines
ad-nasuasm, but read on friends, it might be your local park that just got an
early spring cleans
for those of you that dont know, yours truely has for some time now endeavoured
to restore, protect and preserve a lot of GREENSPACE heritage around
christchurch,(found to be neglected by the CCC, contractors and the public)-
by simply clearing the litter, often backlogged in shrubbery, trampled into the
ground on paths, on river banks and in playgrounds or around playing fields,
and similarly attending to broken glass and the backlog of smashed jars in the
cities old cemetaries.
I can testify to tens of thousands of supermarket bags filled over the past 10
years or so (conservative average of 3 or 4 bags full per day, not just
christchurch). and bread bags filled with glass.
[Did you know I was doing that all the time you were Mayor, Garry?]
When amped up this sort of 'human vaccuum cleaning' is very effective and can
get entire greenbelts and even suburbs 'spick and span', but it is not
apparently welcomed at all by the poweres that be. (possibly some political
discrimination it would seem?)
anyway, this morning for example i did a regular patrol between woodham road,
bromley park including the buckleys rd median strip, and scratched around to
fill a bag of historic glass in the adjacent linwood cemetary (it is getting
hard to find now).
But in the past week or so i have also been through the following parks across
the city, filling two or three (supermarket) bags of rubbish in each:
***Bromley Park/Linwood cemetary
***Denton Park (twice, first times i ever visited this park) Backlog of litter
in south edge grasses and korimiko shrubs.
***Fendalton Park (tidyish, but not the carpark stream area). I have tided this
park once or twice before, years ago.
***Abberly Park (first time i ever cleared there. Roadside bad. Lovely park!))
***Church Square (the road around it never tidied by any locals it seems, one
front lawn particularly bad by busstop. Have tidied round here several times
over past 10 years)
***Richmond Park (stanmore road area quite tidy these days thanks to unknown
person(s) but this park had backlog of litter in shubbery by seats and
bottletops lollypop sticks glass etc there by bin. Typical CCC/contractor
scenerio/community.
***Beverly Park. lots of small stuff to be found trampled into dirt esp. by
carparks(gilby st entrance). i used to live in Gilby st 20 year ago!
***Linwood Park (and alwins rd median). I have now done about 10 missions all
up through this key problem area, 8 tidy ups this year. It is getting better
all time. End of randolf st. did not require attention this time
***Cuthberts Green. i usually do a tidy around here and visit the supershed
where i often do some tidying too.It could be bad now(?) because there was a
softball tournement. Note: shuttle drive gutters never cleared unless i do
them. also note there is a council and city care depot there and a massive
public reserve.
***Bradford park. a regular tidy up here. sometimes brace myself and take on
Angus st stream landscaping (favorite KFC dump zone) as well. Milton St.
***Barrington park. the playground and gardens used to be a shocker. i still
seem to be the only tidier of the shrubbery adjacent to mall.
Sometimes i will do two parks in a day. sometimes i will spend hours on a
munter mission (eg earlier in the year with those long summer evenings and
thirsty trees also neglected by council), leaving dog snoozing in the car.
One thing about parks when stimpy and the litter hunter visit, is we often
attend too to the surrounding road environment - as this is where ningnongs
park and drop their litter. If park environs are clean-slated and kept tidy,
the neighbourhood is empowered to 'lift their game' and this does happen - and
it spreads so i dont have to worry about that neighbourhood too much anymore -
Somerfield is good example.
so there are postives but i am worried what happens when the fellow is not
around to plug the hole in the sea wall. I do find nowdays many householders
and busnesses and some dairies (some of which where i lobbied the proprietor a
bit) maintain outside their premises, and street sweepers do main roads it
seems,
but who does that leave to clear the non-road part of the 'commons'?
Almost invariably i find it is still Beanman's job, as in all of the parks
described above I am filling the gap in the council's heritage provision (or
blimmin' well trying to!).
I dont mind tidying parks - its not taxing i get exercise and its become a bit
of a wee hobby and i get a buzz from it (etc etc), but my concern is that
litter only seems to vanish, when i do the vanishing of it....
What happens in the long term when i move down to my place in Southland?
do you want the litter creeping back into your playgrounds etc? Will the
backlog come back to the disturbing level it was at 10 years ago? (eg the
rubbish strewn Ashgrove section best improved riverbank award)
Dont neglect this aspect of our heritage, Chch. There are 350,000 people in
this city most of whom presumably hate litter too in their parks and footpaths
(including bottle tops, lollypop sticks, those annoying silver dring bottle
seal, cigarette butts, broken glass plastic spoons...) so it would be nice for
me to find evidence of intellient life once in a while (yay for Stanmore road
person) One lady said to me the other day 'i dont blame you i often feel like
picking up the bloody stuff myself'
People who claim to care about our heritage need to walk the walk a bit if
there really is any credibility to this being a civic society and 'garden city'
where people are friendly and the streets are safe.
(from my point of view, the council have been terribly unfriendly)
Anyway, beanman has not tackled all of chch yet with his social-environment
project, but i am getting there and every other day i mangage to crack a little
new territory (another neglected corner where rubbish attracts rubbish). One
park i have never seen but have noticed on map is Wainoni Park. for all i know
this may be in exemplary condition! watch this space.
please dont take Beanman for granted, he wont be forever here tidying your
parks and neighbourhoods and trying to teach your children well.
regards
kevin
--- On Sun, 8/3/08, graeme stanley <<email obscured>> wrote:
> From: graeme stanley <<email obscured>>
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Loss of Heritage
> To: "Canterbury Public Issues Forum"
<<email obscured>>
> Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 9:15 AM
> Hi Garry,I hope you are right about that City Mall owners
> will get behind the upgrade and do up there buildings
> comparable with Lower High St Precinct. I was not at first
> convinced City Mall was worth this upgrade but after
> reflection yesterday & having done at least six heritage
> walk,n, talks along the Lower High Street Precinct into
> which I include the beauty of our Catholic Cathedral as a
> backdrop and the other historic buildings like Community of
> the Sacred Name amd Nurse Maude HQ. I often now sincerely
> thank quietly the vision of The Dave Hendersons and The
> Heritage Trusts Excelsior Hotel and other buildings and
> other individual developers/retailers like McKenzie
> &Willis, who together with Dave Hinman & the
> Heritage Solutions Team at C.C.C. (not sure of there name.)
> transformed High st. Thanks also to the courage of
> developers like Lisle Hood & Paul Bradley etc as they
> toil away behind in the Lichfield &TuamSts Poplar Lanes
> area working magic on these interesting b
> uildings.Most of us are too busy rushing from A--B to
> appreciate what a wonderfulinner city we have.There are
> many interesting individual heritage buildings in the inner
> city I watch concerned about including "Highlight House
> on the Cashel /Manchestersts cnr. Have a look up above the
> verandahs there at Thomas Lamberts decorative
> detailing& quality of design Another Cashel Street shop
> & building not many are aware of is Stewart Dawsons
> Building on City Mall cnr High St& Cashel ST. Its
> magnificent glass window viewed by standing in its doorway
> a little gem as is window on upper floor.A landmark building
> for me has always been Fishers Building on High St/Hereford
> St cnr. I have appreciated walking up the old staircase to
> talk to Lawrie Hanafin in his corner office occasionally I
> shop more frequently in the city now at REAL GROOVY in
> S.O.L. &Tuam St. or to eat at Mitchelinis in Poplar
> Lanes or a drink at Twisted Hop but more latterly Pomeroys
> Historic Hotel. Cheers, Graeme.
>
>
> graeme stanley
> ST ALBANS, CHRISTCHURCH
> Info about graeme stanley:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/graemestanley
>
> This topic's messages may be viewed at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2HHtdxXjOoLJzU2Mm9DMng
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Loss of Heritage
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