In the 'Christchurch Star' today Bob Parker's column tells us that
the Music school will bring new energy to the city.
Wow, get down to the Arts centre to have fun and eat up, and all of a sudden,
academia attack:
Music hall riots over Mendelssohn's Sympnonie no.1 in C minor.
Bob tells us that the Music Hall
[ which in plan is obscenely indifferent to the surrounding architecture]
is among the initiatives which will
quote
"start to reverse the draining of our city into the suburbs"
like How?
Who is going to come to the academic conservatorium boring except Rod Carr and
Bob and Jo and some poor students
who have to rush there from Ilam between lectures.
And Bob states that although the lease costs to the university will be
substantially
"lower then market rates" the whole thing will still be
"cash flow neutral and have no impact on rates"
You are telling us Bob that you can give away money to the University
and it will not cost ratepayers:
But it will punters it will, of course it will.
Bob is a fiscally facile feudal lord, and I voted for him.
Who believes you Bob?. Your Council, and Rod Carr.
Don't you just love this Tuamspeak term "cash flow neutral"
means like you'll never get to see the books.
Well, the same claptrap in almost the exact words they gave to us to explain
how the new Hereford palace
would cost $60 million plus a few odds and ends
[ like the lease payments of $16 million per year to the $150 million
capitalisation of Ngai Tahu share ]
think $200 million dollars Citizens.
quote
"Under the proposal the Council would, through one of its many Companies,
enter into a long term lease agreement with the university ..
ensuring the lease repayments recover all costs.
"
Try to get hold of the accounts for the Hereford palace and see how you get on.
One thing if anything we know about Bob Parker and this Council is that they
are racking up over a quarter of a billion dollars
of costs for future ratepayers.
Well its hard to know if Bob writes these 'Christchurch Star' articles
himself, but I doubt it:
the constant repetition of "Tuam speak' reads like he just signs of the
propaganda sheet.
And more and more Bob seems his own victim of his visions and that propaganda
support, which I call Bobbledy gook.
end paul scott
I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the 20
or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked when
they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently and
coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
David
<email obscured> wrote:
>In the 'Christchurch Star' today Bob Parker's column tells us that
>the Music school will bring new energy to the city.
>
>
>
I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
Tim Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
To: <email obscured>>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the 20
> or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked when
> they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
> council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
> city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently and
> coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
> Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
>
> David
>
> <email obscured> wrote:
>
>>In the 'Christchurch Star' today Bob Parker's column tells us that
>>the Music school will bring new energy to the city.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> David Lloyd
>
> Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/61nCG7Z8R18UWGdqWP9ODO
> -----------------------------------------
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> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>
> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>
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> -----------------------------------------
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Dear Tim
Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased. More
hypocrisy.
David
Tim Kerr wrote:
>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
>
>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
>
>Tim Kerr
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
>To: <email obscured>>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>
>
>
>
>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the 20
>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked when
>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently and
>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
>>
>>David
>>
>>
Not so hypocritical..... The boys could have stated that the venture would
create an additional 200 secure CCC employee BICYCLE parks....
Keep it up!
Tim Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
To: <email obscured>>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> Dear Tim
>
> Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased. More
> hypocrisy.
>
> David
>
> Tim Kerr wrote:
>
>>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
>>
>>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
>>
>>Tim Kerr
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
>>To: <email obscured>>
>>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the 20
>>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked when
>>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
>>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
>>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently and
>>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
>>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
>>>
>>>David
>>>
>>>
>
>
> David Lloyd
>
> Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/70Iv1cBI5Xj4m1qbES3w1O
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>
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09
19:41:00
Even better still - why dosn't the university use the old council Tuam Street
building - car parks and bike parks for miles!!!
> From: <email obscured>
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:14:45 +1300
>
> Not so hypocritical..... The boys could have stated that the venture would
> create an additional 200 secure CCC employee BICYCLE parks....
>
> Keep it up!
>
> Tim Kerr
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
> To: <email obscured>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>
>
> > Dear Tim
> >
> > Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased. More
> > hypocrisy.
> >
> > David
> >
> > Tim Kerr wrote:
> >
> >>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
> >>
> >>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
> >>
> >>Tim Kerr
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
> >>To: <email obscured>>
> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the 20
> >>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked when
> >>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
> >>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
> >>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently and
> >>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
> >>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
> >>>
> >>>David
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> > David Lloyd
> >
> > Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
> >
> > View all messages on this topic at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/70Iv1cBI5Xj4m1qbES3w1O
> > -----------------------------------------
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> > Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> > in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09
> 19:41:00
>
>
>
> Tim Kerr
> Somerfield, Christchurch
> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2Nd0jc4Y4Q6pPrw0S86wUF
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>
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>
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> -----------------------------------------
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_________________________________________________________________
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I think there may be critical conservation restrictions placed on the old
Tuan St Bldg that would not allow the university to rip out the insides.
(Of course, if the CCC find it impossible to give the building away, then
the conservation requirements may be dropped.)
I like the idea of the "Wards" Brewery building.... or the vacant school
grounds by the old Sydenham Post Office (Blue Jeans Cuisine Bldg)
But they may be too far away from the new CCC HQ in Hereford St - and the
Art Gallery, Museum and the Arts Centre.....
The pompous idealism that "the thing would bring people into the central
city - like (a couple of) the grand cities of Europe..." or words to that
effect are utter godswallop. But give a few men a decent income, a bit of
social status and they just keep craving for more!
But now I sound as though I am picking on the person - not the concept!
Oh, see this morning's "The Press" for an oeloginous letter from Rod Carr!
Cheers,
Tim Kerr
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lindsey Sigglekow" <email obscured>>
> To: <email obscured>>
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>
>
>>
>> Even better still - why dosn't the university use the old council Tuam
>> Street building - car parks and bike parks for miles!!!
>>
>>> From: <email obscured>
>>> To: <email obscured>
>>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:14:45 +1300
>>>
>>> Not so hypocritical..... The boys could have stated that the venture
>>> would
>>> create an additional 200 secure CCC employee BICYCLE parks....
>>>
>>> Keep it up!
>>>
>>> Tim Kerr
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
>>> To: <email obscured>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>>>
>>>
>>> > Dear Tim
>>> >
>>> > Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased.
>>> > More
>>> > hypocrisy.
>>> >
>>> > David
>>> >
>>> > Tim Kerr wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
>>> >>
>>> >>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
>>> >>
>>> >>Tim Kerr
>>> >>
>>> >>----- Original Message -----
>>> >>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
>>> >>To: <email obscured>>
>>> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
>>> >>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the
>>> >>>20
>>> >>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked
>>> >>>when
>>> >>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
>>> >>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
>>> >>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently
>>> >>>and
>>> >>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
>>> >>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>David
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > David Lloyd
>>> >
>>> > Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
>>> >
>>> > View all messages on this topic at:
>>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/70Iv1cBI5Xj4m1qbES3w1O
>>> > -----------------------------------------
>>> > To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
>>> > Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
>>> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
>>> > in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>>> >
>>> > More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>> >
>>> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>>> > -----------------------------------------
>>> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>>
>>>
>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date:
>>> 11/18/09
>>> 19:41:00
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tim Kerr
>>> Somerfield, Christchurch
>>> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>>>
>>> View all messages on this topic at:
>>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2Nd0jc4Y4Q6pPrw0S86wUF
>>> -----------------------------------------
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> -----------------------------------------
>>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Download the new
>> Windows Live
>> http://download.live.com
>> Lindsey Sigglekow
>> Linwood, Christchurch City Council
>> Info about Lindsey Sigglekow:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3sHaaYgrgBYFJXwI9Jszi9
>>
>> View all messages on this topic at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6bJ4yK5uRL61RZ2z9mjwgo
>> -----------------------------------------
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>> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
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>>
>> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>
>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
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>
>
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>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09
> 19:41:00
>
It's funny that conservation values might be important for the Tuam St office
when the conservation value of the land around the arts centre is apparently
nil. The CCC has made many changes to this building over the years - why not
some more?
> From: <email obscured>
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Music Hll Riots
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:54:28 +1300
>
>
> I think there may be critical conservation restrictions placed on the old
> Tuan St Bldg that would not allow the university to rip out the insides.
> (Of course, if the CCC find it impossible to give the building away, then
> the conservation requirements may be dropped.)
>
> I like the idea of the "Wards" Brewery building.... or the vacant school
> grounds by the old Sydenham Post Office (Blue Jeans Cuisine Bldg)
>
> But they may be too far away from the new CCC HQ in Hereford St - and the
> Art Gallery, Museum and the Arts Centre.....
>
> The pompous idealism that "the thing would bring people into the central
> city - like (a couple of) the grand cities of Europe..." or words to that
> effect are utter godswallop. But give a few men a decent income, a bit of
> social status and they just keep craving for more!
>
> But now I sound as though I am picking on the person - not the concept!
>
> Oh, see this morning's "The Press" for an oeloginous letter from Rod Carr!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim Kerr
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lindsey Sigglekow" <email obscured>>
> > To: <email obscured>>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:12 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Even better still - why dosn't the university use the old council Tuam
> >> Street building - car parks and bike parks for miles!!!
> >>
> >>> From: <email obscured>
> >>> To: <email obscured>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:14:45 +1300
> >>>
> >>> Not so hypocritical..... The boys could have stated that the venture
> >>> would
> >>> create an additional 200 secure CCC employee BICYCLE parks....
> >>>
> >>> Keep it up!
> >>>
> >>> Tim Kerr
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
> >>> To: <email obscured>>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Dear Tim
> >>> >
> >>> > Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased.
> >>> > More
> >>> > hypocrisy.
> >>> >
> >>> > David
> >>> >
> >>> > Tim Kerr wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Tim Kerr
> >>> >>
> >>> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>> >>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
> >>> >>To: <email obscured>>
> >>> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
> >>> >>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of the
> >>> >>>20
> >>> >>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have panicked
> >>> >>>when
> >>> >>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for the
> >>> >>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive central
> >>> >>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and conveniently
> >>> >>>and
> >>> >>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
> >>> >>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>David
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > David Lloyd
> >>> >
> >>> > Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
> >>> >
> >>> > View all messages on this topic at:
> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/70Iv1cBI5Xj4m1qbES3w1O
> >>> > -----------------------------------------
> >>> > To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
> >>> > Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> >>> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> >>> > in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >>> >
> >>> > More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
> >>> >
> >>> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> >>> > -----------------------------------------
> >>> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date:
> >>> 11/18/09
> >>> 19:41:00
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Tim Kerr
> >>> Somerfield, Christchurch
> >>> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
> >>>
> >>> View all messages on this topic at:
> >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2Nd0jc4Y4Q6pPrw0S86wUF
> >>> -----------------------------------------
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> >>> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >>>
> >>> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
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> >>>
> >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
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> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Download the new
> >> Windows Live
> >> http://download.live.com
> >> Lindsey Sigglekow
> >> Linwood, Christchurch City Council
> >> Info about Lindsey Sigglekow:
> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3sHaaYgrgBYFJXwI9Jszi9
> >>
> >> View all messages on this topic at:
> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6bJ4yK5uRL61RZ2z9mjwgo
> >> -----------------------------------------
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> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09
> > 19:41:00
> >
>
>
>
> Tim Kerr
> Somerfield, Christchurch
> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/OW7m8wzmBphj1EVl64rTO
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Ah well, Lesley, you see, that is the problem with "conservation" - and Rod
Carr got the Historic Places Trust to announce that "historic precincts
should not be left in their preserved state - for history is a living
process and modern modifications in time become part of the historic
precinct." This is what Rod got from the HO of the Trust.... the local
representatives did not entirely agree!
The Historic Places Trust went on to say the Gothic architecture was at the
time a 'modern rendition of an old style' - effectively acknowledging that
the proposed new carbuncle with a steep roof that matches the roof angles of
the current buildings was in itself a currently modern rendition of a Gothic
style. So that's all right eh.
It doesn't matter that the historic precinct was historic not just because
of its Gothic style, but because by today's standards the entire site is
Lilliputian - one of the largest universities in the country, the original
home to Rutherford etc.... was in effect little more than a Matchbox Toy.
Rod Carr's carbuncle is designed to a completely different scale. It is this
factor (and the fact that a modern architect and modern construction
companies seem unable to replicate 19th Cent building materials and
techniques) that really matters. The building is designed utterly to the
wrong scale.
So this is what we are up against!
That's my opinion for the day.... But how do we get the CCC Councillors to
agree?
Tim Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lindsey Sigglekow" <email obscured>>
To: <email obscured>>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Music Hll Riots
>
> It's funny that conservation values might be important for the Tuam St
> office when the conservation value of the land around the arts centre is
> apparently nil. The CCC has made many changes to this building over the
> years - why not some more?
>
>
>
>> From: <email obscured>
>> To: <email obscured>
>> Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Music Hll Riots
>> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:54:28 +1300
>>
>>
>> I think there may be critical conservation restrictions placed on the old
>> Tuan St Bldg that would not allow the university to rip out the insides.
>> (Of course, if the CCC find it impossible to give the building away, then
>> the conservation requirements may be dropped.)
>>
>> I like the idea of the "Wards" Brewery building.... or the vacant school
>> grounds by the old Sydenham Post Office (Blue Jeans Cuisine Bldg)
>>
>> But they may be too far away from the new CCC HQ in Hereford St - and the
>> Art Gallery, Museum and the Arts Centre.....
>>
>> The pompous idealism that "the thing would bring people into the central
>> city - like (a couple of) the grand cities of Europe..." or words to that
>> effect are utter godswallop. But give a few men a decent income, a bit of
>> social status and they just keep craving for more!
>>
>> But now I sound as though I am picking on the person - not the concept!
>>
>> Oh, see this morning's "The Press" for an oeloginous letter from Rod
>> Carr!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tim Kerr
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Lindsey Sigglekow" <email obscured>>
>> > To: <email obscured>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:12 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Even better still - why dosn't the university use the old council Tuam
>> >> Street building - car parks and bike parks for miles!!!
>> >>
>> >>> From: <email obscured>
>> >>> To: <email obscured>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>> >>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:14:45 +1300
>> >>>
>> >>> Not so hypocritical..... The boys could have stated that the venture
>> >>> would
>> >>> create an additional 200 secure CCC employee BICYCLE parks....
>> >>>
>> >>> Keep it up!
>> >>>
>> >>> Tim Kerr
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
>> >>> To: <email obscured>>
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:19 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > Dear Tim
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased.
>> >>> > More
>> >>> > hypocrisy.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > David
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Tim Kerr wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>Tim Kerr
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>----- Original Message -----
>> >>> >>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
>> >>> >>To: <email obscured>>
>> >>> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
>> >>> >>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of
>> >>> >>>the
>> >>> >>>20
>> >>> >>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have
>> >>> >>>panicked
>> >>> >>>when
>> >>> >>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for
>> >>> >>>the
>> >>> >>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive
>> >>> >>>central
>> >>> >>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and
>> >>> >>>conveniently
>> >>> >>>and
>> >>> >>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
>> >>> >>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>David
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > David Lloyd
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
>> >>> >
>> >>> > View all messages on this topic at:
>> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/70Iv1cBI5Xj4m1qbES3w1O
>> >>> > -----------------------------------------
>> >>> > To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
>> >>> > Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
>> >>> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
>> >>> > in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>> >>> >
>> >>> > More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>> >>> >
>> >>> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> >>> > -----------------------------------------
>> >>> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at
>> >>> > http://OnlineGroups.Net
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date:
>> >>> 11/18/09
>> >>> 19:41:00
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Tim Kerr
>> >>> Somerfield, Christchurch
>> >>> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>> >>>
>> >>> View all messages on this topic at:
>> >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2Nd0jc4Y4Q6pPrw0S86wUF
>> >>> -----------------------------------------
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>> >>> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
>> >>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
>> >>> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>> >>>
>> >>> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>> >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>> >>>
>> >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> >>> -----------------------------------------
>> >>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>> >>
>> >> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Download the new
>> >> Windows Live
>> >> http://download.live.com
>> >> Lindsey Sigglekow
>> >> Linwood, Christchurch City Council
>> >> Info about Lindsey Sigglekow:
>> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3sHaaYgrgBYFJXwI9Jszi9
>> >>
>> >> View all messages on this topic at:
>> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6bJ4yK5uRL61RZ2z9mjwgo
>> >> -----------------------------------------
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>> >> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
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>> >> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>> >>
>> >> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
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>> >>
>> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> >> -----------------------------------------
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>> >
>> >
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date:
>> > 11/18/09
>> > 19:41:00
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Kerr
>> Somerfield, Christchurch
>> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>>
>> View all messages on this topic at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/OW7m8wzmBphj1EVl64rTO
>> -----------------------------------------
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>>
>> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
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>>
>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
> http://windows.microsoft.com/shop
> Lindsey Sigglekow
> Linwood, Christchurch City Council
> Info about Lindsey Sigglekow:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3sHaaYgrgBYFJXwI9Jszi9
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4axw7p0WktxhhCjeHplKKR
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>
> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
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>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09
19:41:00
Tim Kerr says
"But how do we get the CCC Councillors to
agree?"
This Christchurch Council won't agree with the common people Tim, ever,
they are closed and elitist and precious and pretentious beyond belief,
indifferent and above us.
Their names and voting records will be presented at the next elections
What will happen is that they will lose the Resource Management application.
Many citizens like us will refuse this high minded intrusion of Mayors mates
visions of glory to themselves.
And if they do build it, we will pull the bloody thing down,
I will.
I concur with you Tim. My distress is that CCC Councillors have their own
agendas and nothing will make them change their minds, even for the people that
they serve. My experience of the council has taught me that they have no value
for anything that's "old". The idea for them is that if it's old get rid of
it. You only have to see the mass distruction of our building history to know
that this is true. I find it hard to believe that the members of the Historic
Places Trust do not hold to true conservation, after all they were so
particular about aspects of the restoration of the Sign of the Kiwi, and other
private dwellings. Visitors to this city often remark about the apparent lack
of history in Christchurch and how much they enjoy our arts centre, oh well,
Atlas Shrug!
> From: <email obscured>
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Music Hll Riots
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:03:47 +1300
>
> Ah well, Lindsey, you see, that is the problem with "conservation" - and Rod
> Carr got the Historic Places Trust to announce that "historic precincts
> should not be left in their preserved state - for history is a living
> process and modern modifications in time become part of the historic
> precinct." This is what Rod got from the HO of the Trust.... the local
> representatives did not entirely agree!
>
> The Historic Places Trust went on to say the Gothic architecture was at the
> time a 'modern rendition of an old style' - effectively acknowledging that
> the proposed new carbuncle with a steep roof that matches the roof angles of
> the current buildings was in itself a currently modern rendition of a Gothic
> style. So that's all right eh.
>
> It doesn't matter that the historic precinct was historic not just because
> of its Gothic style, but because by today's standards the entire site is
> Lilliputian - one of the largest universities in the country, the original
> home to Rutherford etc.... was in effect little more than a Matchbox Toy.
>
> Rod Carr's carbuncle is designed to a completely different scale. It is this
> factor (and the fact that a modern architect and modern construction
> companies seem unable to replicate 19th Cent building materials and
> techniques) that really matters. The building is designed utterly to the
> wrong scale.
>
> So this is what we are up against!
>
> That's my opinion for the day.... But how do we get the CCC Councillors to
> agree?
>
> Tim Kerr
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lindsey Sigglekow" <email obscured>>
> To: <email obscured>>
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Music Hll Riots
>
>
> >
> > It's funny that conservation values might be important for the Tuam St
> > office when the conservation value of the land around the arts centre is
> > apparently nil. The CCC has made many changes to this building over the
> > years - why not some more?
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: <email obscured>
> >> To: <email obscured>
> >> Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Fw: Music Hll Riots
> >> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 06:54:28 +1300
> >>
> >>
> >> I think there may be critical conservation restrictions placed on the old
> >> Tuan St Bldg that would not allow the university to rip out the insides.
> >> (Of course, if the CCC find it impossible to give the building away, then
> >> the conservation requirements may be dropped.)
> >>
> >> I like the idea of the "Wards" Brewery building.... or the vacant school
> >> grounds by the old Sydenham Post Office (Blue Jeans Cuisine Bldg)
> >>
> >> But they may be too far away from the new CCC HQ in Hereford St - and the
> >> Art Gallery, Museum and the Arts Centre.....
> >>
> >> The pompous idealism that "the thing would bring people into the central
> >> city - like (a couple of) the grand cities of Europe..." or words to that
> >> effect are utter godswallop. But give a few men a decent income, a bit of
> >> social status and they just keep craving for more!
> >>
> >> But now I sound as though I am picking on the person - not the concept!
> >>
> >> Oh, see this morning's "The Press" for an oeloginous letter from Rod
> >> Carr!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Tim Kerr
> >>
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Lindsey Sigglekow" <email obscured>>
> >> > To: <email obscured>>
> >> > Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 5:12 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Even better still - why dosn't the university use the old council Tuam
> >> >> Street building - car parks and bike parks for miles!!!
> >> >>
> >> >>> From: <email obscured>
> >> >>> To: <email obscured>
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >> >>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:14:45 +1300
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Not so hypocritical..... The boys could have stated that the venture
> >> >>> would
> >> >>> create an additional 200 secure CCC employee BICYCLE parks....
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Keep it up!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Tim Kerr
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
> >> >>> To: <email obscured>>
> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 12:19 PM
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > Dear Tim
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Thank you, had not realised the number of car parks had increased.
> >> >>> > More
> >> >>> > hypocrisy.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > David
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Tim Kerr wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >>I noted that the CCC is to get 40 - not 20 - extra car parks.....
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>Doesn't that make it all worthwhile?
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>Tim Kerr
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>----- Original Message -----
> >> >>> >>From: "David Lloyd" <email obscured>>
> >> >>> >>To: <email obscured>>
> >> >>> >>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 7:54 PM
> >> >>> >>Subject: Re: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>>I believe the council is supporting the music centre because of
> >> >>> >>>the
> >> >>> >>>20
> >> >>> >>>or so underground carparks it will contain. They must have
> >> >>> >>>panicked
> >> >>> >>>when
> >> >>> >>>they realised Ngai Tahu Towers did not have enough car parks for
> >> >>> >>>the
> >> >>> >>>council hierarchy. Bus lanes and decreased and more expensive
> >> >>> >>>central
> >> >>> >>>city parking for us, swanky new car parks for them and
> >> >>> >>>conveniently
> >> >>> >>>and
> >> >>> >>>coincidentally a short stroll from the new council building. Lol!
> >> >>> >>>Disgrace but have to laugh at the cheek of them.
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>David
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >>>
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > David Lloyd
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Info about David Lloyd: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/davidlloyd
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > View all messages on this topic at:
> >> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/70Iv1cBI5Xj4m1qbES3w1O
> >> >>> > -----------------------------------------
> >> >>> > To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
> >> >>> > Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> >> >>> > To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> >> >>> > in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> >> >>> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> >> >>> > -----------------------------------------
> >> >>> > Technical assistance thanks to our friends at
> >> >>> > http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date:
> >> >>> 11/18/09
> >> >>> 19:41:00
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Tim Kerr
> >> >>> Somerfield, Christchurch
> >> >>> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
> >> >>>
> >> >>> View all messages on this topic at:
> >> >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/2Nd0jc4Y4Q6pPrw0S86wUF
> >> >>> -----------------------------------------
> >> >>> To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
> >> >>> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> >> >>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> >> >>> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> >> >>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
> >> >>>
> >> >>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> >> >>> -----------------------------------------
> >> >>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >> >>
> >> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> >> Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Download the new
> >> >> Windows Live
> >> >> http://download.live.com
> >> >> Lindsey Sigglekow
> >> >> Linwood, Christchurch City Council
> >> >> Info about Lindsey Sigglekow:
> >> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3sHaaYgrgBYFJXwI9Jszi9
> >> >>
> >> >> View all messages on this topic at:
> >> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/6bJ4yK5uRL61RZ2z9mjwgo
> >> >> -----------------------------------------
> >> >> To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
> >> >> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> >> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> >> >> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >> >>
> >> >> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> >> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
> >> >>
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> >> >> -----------------------------------------
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> >> >
> >> >
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date:
> >> > 11/18/09
> >> > 19:41:00
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tim Kerr
> >> Somerfield, Christchurch
> >> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
> >>
> >> View all messages on this topic at:
> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/OW7m8wzmBphj1EVl64rTO
> >> -----------------------------------------
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> >> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> >> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> >> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >>
> >> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> >> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
> >>
> >> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
> > http://windows.microsoft.com/shop
> > Lindsey Sigglekow
> > Linwood, Christchurch City Council
> > Info about Lindsey Sigglekow:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/3sHaaYgrgBYFJXwI9Jszi9
> >
> > View all messages on this topic at:
> > http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4axw7p0WktxhhCjeHplKKR
> > -----------------------------------------
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> > in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
> >
> > More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
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> >
> > E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> > -----------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2512 - Release Date: 11/18/09
> 19:41:00
>
>
>
> Tim Kerr
> Somerfield, Christchurch
> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/72ISbtvYA6FXXhjb0ywDTD
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>
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Music Hall Riots
Now I have been informed that if they do get the Music hall box built, it
would be illegal to arrange riots and pull the thing down, and would probably
result in a jail term.
Therefore the time for action is now.
But I hope many Citizens will enter the Resource Consent process.
I will certainly do my bit, and I will be on the look out for the best way of
approaching this intrusion on the Arts centre.
Originally hearings were to be rushed through in early December, while we were
too busy, but now there has been a move by Rod Carr to delay hearings till
February 2010.
It will be difficult to match the professionals that Bob Parker and Marryat
will pay to advance their cause, but we have to do it.
Anne Hercus is fairly high profile in Canterbury, and I think that definitely
we will need a leader to focus this effort.
Graham Sydney [ the painter] ,was active in the resistance to the Meridian wind
farm in central Otago; and he said it cost money, time and enormous effort.
As well he admitted it was helpful to have people like him with high community
respect and profile.
Perhaps for me he fundamental; thing is the sheer success and fun and sense of
history this Arts centre has now:
it will lose this if Bob and Tony put their car parks in.
Years ago I heard that either former Mayor Ron Guthrey or Neville Pickering [
not sure which] tried to introduce changes to the Hagley park, and was
immediately voted out of Office.
The Arts Centre environment issue is different to the profligate Hereford
palace, in that people can see for themselves how utterly divorced from
Citizens this Council really is.
It took Gary Moore three terms to become offhand and over bearing but Bob
Parker and Tony Marryat started this way and they will continue until we throw
them out of office.
Christchurch City Council voted 7-6 to approve funding for the music
conservatorium:
In Favour : Mike Wall, Barry Corbett, Ngaire Button, Gail Sheriff, Claudia
Reid, Bob Shearing and Bob Parker. Sue Wells absent, but she is in favour.
Not in Favour : Helen Broughton, Norm Withers, David Cox, Yani Johanson, Sally
Buck and Chrissie Williams.
References
1. Proposals for conservatorium : this link shows well prepared plans for
the imposition of a thoroughly modern structure, and shows the crowding out
effect the building will have on the present open spaced Arts Centre
http://www.music.canterbury.ac.nz/conservatorium/
2. Closed door workshop meeting by Council 6 November
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3036722/Closed-door-meeting-over-music-conservatorium
3. Ann Hercus outlines determination against Conservatorium
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3058308/Funding-of-music-centre-gets-nod
4. Rod Carr agrees to reschedule Consent hearing from early December to
February 2010
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/university-and-arts-centre-consider-conservatorium-concerns/5/30750
5. Bobblede gook Bob Parker advancing reasons for Conservatorium, and how it
won't cost you money
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3050176/Mayor-urges-council-to-back-conservatorium
Historic Note:
Mayor Ron Guthrey supported a plan to divert the eastern half of Harper Avenue
across N Hagley Park to come out somewhere near Salisbury St on Park Tce. It is
generally believed that this decision, in failing to read the mood of chch
citizens and their passion and protectiveness towards Hagley Park, contributed
to his ousting from council at the following elections.
colin
-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>]
Sent: Saturday, 21 November 2009 11:36 a.m.
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
Music Hall Riots
Now I have been informed that if they do get the Music hall box built, it
would be illegal to arrange riots and pull the thing down, and would probably
result in a jail term.
Therefore the time for action is now.
But I hope many Citizens will enter the Resource Consent process.
I will certainly do my bit, and I will be on the look out for the best way of
approaching this intrusion on the Arts centre.
Originally hearings were to be rushed through in early December, while we were
too busy, but now there has been a move by Rod Carr to delay hearings till
February 2010.
It will be difficult to match the professionals that Bob Parker and Marryat
will pay to advance their cause, but we have to do it.
Anne Hercus is fairly high profile in Canterbury, and I think that definitely
we will need a leader to focus this effort.
Graham Sydney [ the painter] ,was active in the resistance to the Meridian wind
farm in central Otago; and he said it cost money, time and enormous effort.
As well he admitted it was helpful to have people like him with high community
respect and profile.
Perhaps for me he fundamental; thing is the sheer success and fun and sense of
history this Arts centre has now:
it will lose this if Bob and Tony put their car parks in.
Years ago I heard that either former Mayor Ron Guthrey or Neville Pickering [
not sure which] tried to introduce changes to the Hagley park, and was
immediately voted out of Office.
The Arts Centre environment issue is different to the profligate Hereford
palace, in that people can see for themselves how utterly divorced from
Citizens this Council really is.
It took Gary Moore three terms to become offhand and over bearing but Bob
Parker and Tony Marryat started this way and they will continue until we throw
them out of office.
Christchurch City Council voted 7-6 to approve funding for the music
conservatorium:
In Favour : Mike Wall, Barry Corbett, Ngaire Button, Gail Sheriff, Claudia
Reid, Bob Shearing and Bob Parker. Sue Wells absent, but she is in favour.
Not in Favour : Helen Broughton, Norm Withers, David Cox, Yani Johanson, Sally
Buck and Chrissie Williams.
References
1. Proposals for conservatorium : this link shows well prepared plans for
the imposition of a thoroughly modern structure, and shows the crowding out
effect the building will have on the present open spaced Arts Centre
http://www.music.canterbury.ac.nz/conservatorium/
2. Closed door workshop meeting by Council 6 November
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3036722/Closed-door-meeting-over-music-conservatorium
3. Ann Hercus outlines determination against Conservatorium
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3058308/Funding-of-music-centre-gets-nod
4. Rod Carr agrees to reschedule Consent hearing from early December to
February 2010
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/university-and-arts-centre-consider-conservatorium-concerns/5/30750
5. Bobblede gook Bob Parker advancing reasons for Conservatorium, and how it
won't cost you money
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3050176/Mayor-urges-council-to-back-conservatorium
paul scott
North avon,
Info about paul scott: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/scottpaul
View all messages on this topic at:
http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/rqoqV9u0OVf0NxbvIOsnf
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While The Star covered some of the points I tried to make to council on the eve
of its vote on the Arts Centre proposal, it did not canvass all I raised. A
copy of the letter below for those with an interest. Brendon Burns MP
Open letter to Mayor and Councillors
Re: School of Music proposal
With council about to consider approving the School of Music project, I would
like to feel assured that you have the fullest possible picture and that you
are aware of a similar, much-delayed proposal in Wellington.
In 2003, Victoria University and Massey University developed a joint proposal
for a National School of Music in Wellington. Initial costings suggested a
price tag of perhaps $30m. An auditorium seating as many as 700 people was
indicated.
Support from the Wellington City Council was gained in September 2004. Council
agreed to provide, at a peppercorn rental, a vacant green space site adjacent
to the waterfront and adjoining Civic Square and the Town Hall/Michael Fowler
complex.
Nearly three years later and after considerable lobbying, then Finance Minister
Michael Cullen announced a one-off $11.5m government grant for the project,
contingent on several conditions.
In March last year, the Wellington City Council was asked to extend its offer
on the site. The Victoria University annual report of 2008 said the proposal
for a ‘world class’ facility would see a final budget confirmed in 2009. In
April this year, the Council was asked for and agreed to another extension –
this time to 2011. At least two councillors initially supported a music school
but objected to turning a current green space into a building. One suggested
building on the Wellington Town Hall complex’s carpark and putting parking
under the Music School.
It’s unclear whether the $11.5m government grant is still truly in prospect.
The National School of Music has certainly been reviewed by the National
Government, as one might expect, six years after the project began and without
any tangible sign of progress. The original conditions for the grant included
submitting a new business case with more information about the building’s
costs, how the school fitted into the network of tertiary music education and
the financial sustainability of the school. Performance commitments were also
required.
An April report to the Wellington City Council said the price tag was now $60m
and the auditorium capacity 350-400 people. Half the original size hoped for
but twice the money. Both universities remain hopeful but the school, if built,
will not be open until 2013 at the earliest, a decade after being proposed.
In summary, some thoughts that you as councillors might consider
Project costs usually inflate. Wellington’s Music School building was costed
at $30, then $45m, now $60m is indicated. .
Wellington’s school was a joint proposal from two tertiary institutions. My
understanding is that Canterbury University has around 100 music students; CPIT
has 300. Surely a conservatorium only becomes truly viable if we site it for
use by students from both institutions?
If Wellington’s National School of Music does actually get underway in 2011,
some eight or more years since first proposed, what would that do to the
viability of the Christchurch proposal? Wellington has geographic centrality,
the promise of Government funding and is home to the NZSO. Here in Christchurch
we have our brilliant CSO but its constant financial challenges are exacerbated
by the lack of a permanent home. Shouldn’t that be an essential feature of any
new School of Music?
I personally favour bringing students into our inner city and helping
revitalise it as has happened in Wellington with the schools of law, commerce
and design. Rod Carr brings an impressive vision for his university, our city
and region.
I, for one, did not rush to judgement on the School of Musicproposal. However,
for aesthetic reasons, I do not support a modern development on the iconic Arts
Centre site. Our heritage is our best asset.
That view has strengthened in discovering that Wellington’s proposal faces such
difficulties, even with huge Government money promised that is clearly not in
prospect for Christchurch in a recession. All our ducks must line up if a new
inner-city School of Music in Christchurch can fly.
Yours sincerely
Brendon Burns
MP for Christchurch Central
Thank you for your comments Brendon.
My feelings are that the "vision" is grand (as it should be) but the site is
Lilliputian, and that the projected design will overwhelm the site -
destroying the very aspect that gives it its historic prescinct aura.
In an earlier diatribe on this site I commented that there are a few block
near the arts centre that are due for re-development as the current tenants
move out to cheaper industrial and trade-focused business site in other
parts of the city.
What I cannot fathom is the large pool of funds that such myopic business
and academic leaders have to fund their grand schemes!
Where in heck does the money come from?
Hey, give me a job and I'll find out for you!
Tim Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: <email obscured>>
To: <email obscured>>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:06 PM
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> While The Star covered some of the points I tried to make to council on
> the eve of its vote on the Arts Centre proposal, it did not canvass all I
> raised. A copy of the letter below for those with an interest. Brendon
> Burns MP
>
> Open letter to Mayor and Councillors
>
> Re: School of Music proposal
>
> With council about to consider approving the School of Music project, I
> would like to feel assured that you have the fullest possible picture and
> that you are aware of a similar, much-delayed proposal in Wellington.
>
> In 2003, Victoria University and Massey University developed a joint
> proposal for a National School of Music in Wellington. Initial costings
> suggested a price tag of perhaps $30m. An auditorium seating as many as
> 700 people was indicated.
>
> Support from the Wellington City Council was gained in September 2004.
> Council agreed to provide, at a peppercorn rental, a vacant green space
> site adjacent to the waterfront and adjoining Civic Square and the Town
> Hall/Michael Fowler complex.
>
> Nearly three years later and after considerable lobbying, then Finance
> Minister Michael Cullen announced a one-off $11.5m government grant for
> the project, contingent on several conditions.
>
> In March last year, the Wellington City Council was asked to extend its
> offer on the site. The Victoria University annual report of 2008 said the
> proposal for a ‘world class’ facility would see a final budget confirmed
> in 2009. In April this year, the Council was asked for and agreed to
> another extension – this time to 2011. At least two councillors initially
> supported a music school but objected to turning a current green space
> into a building. One suggested building on the Wellington Town Hall
> complex’s carpark and putting parking under the Music School.
>
> It’s unclear whether the $11.5m government grant is still truly in
> prospect. The National School of Music has certainly been reviewed by the
> National Government, as one might expect, six years after the project
> began and without any tangible sign of progress. The original conditions
> for the grant included submitting a new business case with more
> information about the building’s costs, how the school fitted into the
> network of tertiary music education and the financial sustainability of
> the school. Performance commitments were also required.
>
> An April report to the Wellington City Council said the price tag was now
> $60m and the auditorium capacity 350-400 people. Half the original size
> hoped for but twice the money. Both universities remain hopeful but the
> school, if built, will not be open until 2013 at the earliest, a decade
> after being proposed.
>
> In summary, some thoughts that you as councillors might consider
>
> Project costs usually inflate. Wellington’s Music School building was
> costed at $30, then $45m, now $60m is indicated. .
>
> Wellington’s school was a joint proposal from two tertiary institutions.
> My understanding is that Canterbury University has around 100 music
> students; CPIT has 300. Surely a conservatorium only becomes truly viable
> if we site it for use by students from both institutions?
>
> If Wellington’s National School of Music does actually get underway in
> 2011, some eight or more years since first proposed, what would that do to
> the viability of the Christchurch proposal? Wellington has geographic
> centrality, the promise of Government funding and is home to the NZSO.
> Here in Christchurch we have our brilliant CSO but its constant financial
> challenges are exacerbated by the lack of a permanent home. Shouldn’t that
> be an essential feature of any new School of Music?
>
> I personally favour bringing students into our inner city and helping
> revitalise it as has happened in Wellington with the schools of law,
> commerce and design. Rod Carr brings an impressive vision for his
> university, our city and region.
>
> I, for one, did not rush to judgement on the School of Musicproposal.
> However, for aesthetic reasons, I do not support a modern development on
> the iconic Arts Centre site. Our heritage is our best asset.
>
> That view has strengthened in discovering that Wellington’s proposal faces
> such difficulties, even with huge Government money promised that is
> clearly not in prospect for Christchurch in a recession. All our ducks
> must line up if a new inner-city School of Music in Christchurch can fly.
>
> Yours sincerely
>
> Brendon Burns
> MP for Christchurch Central
> Brendon Burns
> Richmond, Christchurch
> Info about Brendon Burns:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/5327sUyPUvOiDy1nF4Htfv
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4ihAADq7IZsx8fyLVXFgDM
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>
> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
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>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
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07:47:00
Music Hall riots
Getting organised: My letter to brendon Burns
from Paul Scott :
p.o box 26-099, North Avon, Christchurch : phone 021- 560-566
to Brendon Burns, MP Christchurch Central
Re Music Hall on Arts Centre
Brendon,
I would like to contribute to the effort which I think will see the demise of
the absurd and pompous proposal to erect a Music Hall on the Arts centre.
I would like you or Ann Hercus, or any prominent citizen to lead this effort,
and group us to a successful conclusion.
This conclusion is that the Arts centre remains the wonderful, successful and
happy amenity to Christchurch that it is now.
The Arts centre must not become manipulated by transient local politicians.
I expect the Christchurch Council will spend money and lack of consultation to
effect a political and strategic result.
But they will fail. Send me work to do on this matter, and I will do it.
Sincerely, Paul Scott
Brendon ask where does the money come from? Likely from us Christchurch
ratepayers.
This facility should be on the University campus since there is plenty of
space to build it and it is for their benefit (they are, in effect, a
company after all rather than the educational institution they were once - I
doubt their current management would give the likes of Ernest Rutherford
house room since he wouldn't return an immediate profit ).
Canny move on their part, however, since you and I will stump up the cash
via our rates. Next October we can vote in the local elections so bear in
mind the Mayor and Councillors who say us (ratepayers) must pay for this.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Kerr" <email obscured>>
To: <email obscured>>
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:30 PM
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> Thank you for your comments Brendon.
>
> My feelings are that the "vision" is grand (as it should be) but the site
> is
> Lilliputian, and that the projected design will overwhelm the site -
> destroying the very aspect that gives it its historic prescinct aura.
>
> In an earlier diatribe on this site I commented that there are a few block
> near the arts centre that are due for re-development as the current
> tenants
> move out to cheaper industrial and trade-focused business site in other
> parts of the city.
>
> What I cannot fathom is the large pool of funds that such myopic business
> and academic leaders have to fund their grand schemes!
>
> Where in heck does the money come from?
>
> Hey, give me a job and I'll find out for you!
>
> Tim Kerr
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <email obscured>>
> To: <email obscured>>
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:06 PM
> Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
>
>
>> While The Star covered some of the points I tried to make to council on
>> the eve of its vote on the Arts Centre proposal, it did not canvass all I
>> raised. A copy of the letter below for those with an interest. Brendon
>> Burns MP
>>
>> Open letter to Mayor and Councillors
>>
>> Re: School of Music proposal
>>
>> With council about to consider approving the School of Music project, I
>> would like to feel assured that you have the fullest possible picture and
>> that you are aware of a similar, much-delayed proposal in Wellington.
>>
>> In 2003, Victoria University and Massey University developed a joint
>> proposal for a National School of Music in Wellington. Initial costings
>> suggested a price tag of perhaps $30m. An auditorium seating as many as
>> 700 people was indicated.
>>
>> Support from the Wellington City Council was gained in September 2004.
>> Council agreed to provide, at a peppercorn rental, a vacant green space
>> site adjacent to the waterfront and adjoining Civic Square and the Town
>> Hall/Michael Fowler complex.
>>
>> Nearly three years later and after considerable lobbying, then Finance
>> Minister Michael Cullen announced a one-off $11.5m government grant for
>> the project, contingent on several conditions.
>>
>> In March last year, the Wellington City Council was asked to extend its
>> offer on the site. The Victoria University annual report of 2008 said
>> the
>> proposal for a ‘world class’ facility would see a final budget confirmed
>> in 2009. In April this year, the Council was asked for and agreed to
>> another extension – this time to 2011. At least two councillors
>> initially
>> supported a music school but objected to turning a current green space
>> into a building. One suggested building on the Wellington Town Hall
>> complex’s carpark and putting parking under the Music School.
>>
>> It’s unclear whether the $11.5m government grant is still truly in
>> prospect. The National School of Music has certainly been reviewed by the
>> National Government, as one might expect, six years after the project
>> began and without any tangible sign of progress. The original conditions
>> for the grant included submitting a new business case with more
>> information about the building’s costs, how the school fitted into the
>> network of tertiary music education and the financial sustainability of
>> the school. Performance commitments were also required.
>>
>> An April report to the Wellington City Council said the price tag was now
>> $60m and the auditorium capacity 350-400 people. Half the original size
>> hoped for but twice the money. Both universities remain hopeful but the
>> school, if built, will not be open until 2013 at the earliest, a decade
>> after being proposed.
>>
>> In summary, some thoughts that you as councillors might consider
>>
>> Project costs usually inflate. Wellington’s Music School building was
>> costed at $30, then $45m, now $60m is indicated. .
>>
>> Wellington’s school was a joint proposal from two tertiary institutions.
>> My understanding is that Canterbury University has around 100 music
>> students; CPIT has 300. Surely a conservatorium only becomes truly viable
>> if we site it for use by students from both institutions?
>>
>> If Wellington’s National School of Music does actually get underway in
>> 2011, some eight or more years since first proposed, what would that do
>> to
>> the viability of the Christchurch proposal? Wellington has geographic
>> centrality, the promise of Government funding and is home to the NZSO.
>> Here in Christchurch we have our brilliant CSO but its constant financial
>> challenges are exacerbated by the lack of a permanent home. Shouldn’t
>> that
>> be an essential feature of any new School of Music?
>>
>> I personally favour bringing students into our inner city and helping
>> revitalise it as has happened in Wellington with the schools of law,
>> commerce and design. Rod Carr brings an impressive vision for his
>> university, our city and region.
>>
>> I, for one, did not rush to judgement on the School of Musicproposal.
>> However, for aesthetic reasons, I do not support a modern development on
>> the iconic Arts Centre site. Our heritage is our best asset.
>>
>> That view has strengthened in discovering that Wellington’s proposal
>> faces
>> such difficulties, even with huge Government money promised that is
>> clearly not in prospect for Christchurch in a recession. All our ducks
>> must line up if a new inner-city School of Music in Christchurch can fly.
>>
>> Yours sincerely
>>
>> Brendon Burns
>> MP for Christchurch Central
>> Brendon Burns
>> Richmond, Christchurch
>> Info about Brendon Burns:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/5327sUyPUvOiDy1nF4Htfv
>>
>> View all messages on this topic at:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/4ihAADq7IZsx8fyLVXFgDM
>> -----------------------------------------
>> To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
>> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
>> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
>> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>>
>> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
>> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>>
>> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.76/2517 - Release Date: 11/21/09
> 07:47:00
>
>
>
> Tim Kerr
> Somerfield, Christchurch
> Info about Tim Kerr: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/timkerr
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3QlZoXUCGA7e9iJcjfAxAj
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>
Music Hall on Arts centre unlikely to go ahead
The cornerstone of citizens opposition to the absurd move to place a
a music Hall on the Arts Centre is the
‘ Save our Arts Centre Trust’ http://soac.org.nz/
Go there, the web site is extremely informative, not too emotive, and gives the
best all round info on what is going on, and what we can do about it.
Specifically as a start, join the Trust membership, and pay the joining fee.
The numbers opposing this Bob vision grow daily.
Citizens be aware that the Bob Parker Council has moved on all important
matters in your City without the necessary consultation or consideration of
you.
• Hereford street palace was hatched overnight immediately following election,
by Bob Parker and Tony Marryat without Council or public knowledge; the
details given to the public were contrived and disingenuous;
• Lyttelton Port shares bought up large at sellers prices without Council or
public knowledge;
• Social housing policy changed without consultation
• Dave Henderson’s properties lying vacant and ugly, but saved from development
or any useful function , without consultation;
• Ellerslie flower show purchased and the price paid was considered nothing to
do with the ratepayers;
Do nothing Citizens, and Bob and his Councilors will just get bigger and
bigger, spending your money, and loading up the future with debt, in his grand
vision.
And his vision is flawed. Go to the Arts centre site, just google
Save our Arts centre, and read.
The site is due to Mr Richard Sinke, proprietor of the Dux de Lux, who appears
to be the leader for this refusal of the music hall box, and Bob Parker’s
special car park.
Thank you Paul for providing us with the website address for the "Save our
Arts Centre Trust".
Normally references to websites on this forum cheese me off - but this is an
exception.
Please note - other contributors - this address was supplied so we could
contact it and add our support (if indeed we do support!) to the
organisation set up to oppose the controversial Music Hall development
dreamed up by Dr Rod Carr.
By contrast, other contributors to this forum have added website addresses
to support their arguments or opinions. Citing a website that you expect me
to then look up to support a view brasses me (and no doubt other
contributors) off. If contributors must add website addresses as an element
of their argument, then at least provide us with a synapse of what the site
is - and why you have cited it in support of your argument.
Thanks again Paul for the address - I will be lending my support to the
cause as soon as I obtain a bit more hard dosh, hopefully later this week!
Cheers,
Tim Kerr
----- Original Message -----
From: <email obscured>>
To: <email obscured>>
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:33 PM
Subject: [Canterbury Issues] Music Hll Riots
> Music Hall on Arts centre unlikely to go ahead
>
>
> The cornerstone of citizens opposition to the absurd move to place a
> a music Hall on the Arts Centre is the
>
> ‘ Save our Arts Centre Trust’ http://soac.org.nz/
>
> Go there, the web site is extremely informative, not too emotive, and
> gives the best all round info on what is going on, and what we can do
> about it.
>
> Specifically as a start, join the Trust membership, and pay the joining
> fee.
> The numbers opposing this Bob vision grow daily.
>
> Citizens be aware that the Bob Parker Council has moved on all important
> matters in your City without the necessary consultation or consideration
> of you.
>
> • Hereford street palace was hatched overnight immediately following
> election, by Bob Parker and Tony Marryat without Council or public
> knowledge; the details given to the public were contrived and
> disingenuous;
>
> • Lyttelton Port shares bought up large at sellers prices without Council
> or public knowledge;
>
> • Social housing policy changed without consultation
>
> • Dave Henderson’s properties lying vacant and ugly, but saved from
> development or any useful function , without consultation;
>
> • Ellerslie flower show purchased and the price paid was considered
> nothing to do with the ratepayers;
>
> Do nothing Citizens, and Bob and his Councilors will just get bigger and
> bigger, spending your money, and loading up the future with debt, in his
> grand vision.
>
> And his vision is flawed. Go to the Arts centre site, just google
> Save our Arts centre, and read.
>
> The site is due to Mr Richard Sinke, proprietor of the Dux de Lux, who
> appears to be the leader for this refusal of the music hall box, and Bob
> Parker’s special car park.
>
>
>
>
>
> paul scott
> North avon,
> Info about paul scott: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/scottpaul
>
> View all messages on this topic at:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5rZ4vr0G1ZwEnxKtQQZO42
> -----------------------------------------
> To post, e-mail: <email obscured>
> Use "Reply-to-All" via e-mail to post publicly.
> To leave or for daily digest, type "unsubscribe" or "digest on"
> in subject, then send to: <email obscured>
>
> More information about Canterbury Public Issues Forum:
> http://forums.e-democracy.org/groups/canterburyissues
>
> E-Democracy.Org rules: http://e-democracy.org/rules
> -----------------------------------------
> Technical assistance thanks to our friends at http://OnlineGroups.Net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.85/2532 - Release Date: 11/28/09
07:45:00
Music hall riots
'Save our Arts Centre Trust' has applied to the High court for a ruling that
the imposition of the Music Hall Box is against the original purpose and
requirements of the Arts Centre Trust.
This is that Citizens who want to retain the integrity of the Arts Centre, say
that the trustees of the Arts Centre have lost the public's feeling as to what
the Arts centre is.
Now there is an article in todays [ 30 nov] Press in which Canterbury
University describe the 'Save our Arts Centre' request to the High Court to
rule in favour of the people as a 'publicity stunt'.
This is not a publicity stunt.
The claptrap being dished out by Academia from Canterbury University is that we
need an Environment Court hearing to determine the matter.
Environmental Courts deal with Environmental matters.
They are not required to consider whether the overbearing music box building
is a good idea or not; and they are specifically not recommended to second
guess public opinion.
All the resource management process does is consider environmental things.
Save Our arts Centre people have realised this and are proceeding to Court to
hear what rights, if any rights, the beneficiaries to the Arts Centre have.
The beneficiaries of the Arts Centre Trust are us; you and me.
But the Trustees of the Arts Centre have got carried away with providing
parking spaces for Bob Parker and Tony Marryat, and Vice Chancellor Carr.
Its not going to happen Citizens, even though your Mayor , now on holiday
Canada says it is.
Christchurch City Council is a closed shop, we will have to work hard together
to prevent the music hall box.
Who do you say owns the Arts Centre.
I say we do.. and I say we have a right to determine its future.
reference
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3107718/High-Court-action-deemed-a-publicity-stunt
<email obscured> wrote:
> Music hall riots
>
>
>
> 'Save our Arts Centre Trust' has applied to the High court for a ruling that
the imposition of the Music Hall Box is against the original purpose and
requirements of the Arts Centre Trust.
>
> This is that Citizens who want to retain the integrity of the Arts Centre,
say that the trustees of the Arts Centre have lost the public's feeling as to
what the Arts centre is.
>
> Now there is an article in todays [ 30 nov] Press in which Canterbury
University describe the 'Save our Arts Centre' request to the High Court to
rule in favour of the people as a 'publicity stunt'.
>
> This is not a publicity stunt.
>
> The claptrap being dished out by Academia from Canterbury University is that
we need an Environment Court hearing to determine the matter.
>
> Environmental Courts deal with Environmental matters.
> They are not required to consider whether the overbearing music box building
is a good idea or not; and they are specifically not recommended to second
guess public opinion.
>
> All the resource management process does is consider environmental things.
>
> Save Our arts Centre people have realised this and are proceeding to Court to
hear what rights, if any rights, the beneficiaries to the Arts Centre have.
>
> The beneficiaries of the Arts Centre Trust are us; you and me.
>
> But the Trustees of the Arts Centre have got carried away with providing
parking spaces for Bob Parker and Tony Marryat, and Vice Chancellor Carr.
>
> Its not going to happen Citizens, even though your Mayor , now on holiday
Canada says it is.
>
>
> Christchurch City Council is a closed shop, we will have to work hard
together to prevent the music hall box.
>
> Who do you say owns the Arts Centre.
>
> I say we do.. and I say we have a right to determine its future.
>
>
> reference
>
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/3107718/High-Court-action-deemed-a-publicity-stunt
>
I see:
"Clause 4 (c) said: the trust board had the power to "construct, alter,
pull down and re-erect, improve, maintain and generally provide any
buildings required for the general purposes of the board and provide
these buildings with light, water, drainage, electricity and all other
amenities thought desirable".
And Clause 10 said: "The board may by supplemental deed alter or add to
the terms and provisions of this deed, provided that no such alteration
or addition shall in any way detract from or alter the exclusively
charitable objects of the trust.""
We need to be quite careful here. WHAT IS CHARITABLE?
In the recent LTCCP process, CCC have formed a charitable trust to run
the City's infrastructure so as to benefit from some tax law changes.
As I submitted at the time, that worried me.
In the past rates were assigned to infrastructure provision/maintenance.
Now the City gives money to a trust to do it and registers it as
charitable so as not to have to pay tax. That seems to be a step towards
removal of charitable status and running as a profit-based organisation
with a view to selling it off in the future. Perhaps someone could explain.
Recently our Sunday night Water Forum <http://waterforum.us> watched
the film "FLOW" (For the Love Of Water). We saw how privatisation of
water meant that the public wells, the sources of clean public water,
are taken over by a private (international) company. That company then
may charge more for teh water than the people can pay. So many have to
use dirty water from rivers, and they die.
Canterbury has often done better than Auckland at rugby. Why not at
politics? Some of you may be giving to the Christmas Appeal. The
Christmas Appeal poster this year displays people pumping water from
wells. Do you want to allow an international company to take root here
and use its profit to further the taking over of wells in other countries?
I think there is a need to examine what is intended by 'charitable' In
my view the word is being played around with.
The trust deed needs to be looked at in terms of the intentions at the
time it was formed.
Buildings needing to be 'pulled down' were the prefabs. The Great Hall
required extra 'construction' in the form of earthquake strengthening
and double glazing for sound proofing. The Chrstchurch School of Music
'altered' the Old Physics block internally, somewhat, to its needs, and
an Engineering School building was changed to a picture theatre &c.
'Provision' of buildings has been to several organisations, individuals
and businesses..
I am sure that clause 4c could not allow 'pulling down' all the
buildings though it says any buildings. So also it needs to be careful
about new building. 'New buildings' is not referred to. There were
prefabs where the car park is now. That would presumably give a right to
re-erect something, but it would have to be in keeping with the Trust
intentions - why were those prefabs removed &c. They were not in
keeping. Can provision of car parking be in keeping?
It was great when the Camerata Quartet had a Conservatoire in the Old
Registry building.
As I pointed out in my submission to the Events Strategy in 2007, the
public purse pays when we get things wrong., That is if we don't do the
best for physical, cultural &c health. Paul, was it, says he does not
want to negotiate around cellists. How about saying what you do want for
Christchruch Do you know of the nearby Christchruch Art Gallery
auditorium? What do you think of the $140 per hour charge for it (and
how much should the proposed new auditorium be costed at per hour?) I
was wondering if CCC paid to use the Art Gallery auditorium to introduce
the Open Space Draft Policy last week. Wonderings.
Please educate me.
Citizens of Christchurch,
it will not be easy, Christchurch people,We own this City ,this is our city,
we own the ARTS centre, we have already won this fight