All posts in the topic RNC demonstration route (Short link)
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- There are 41 posts — by 26 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Neala Schleuning at Jun 10 21:43 UTC
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| Andrew Hine | Cleveland Circle aerial03.jpg | May 19 19:11 UTC |
From the Pioneer Press:
The route for protesters at the Republican National Convention was announced
today.
According to law enforcement authorities, from the Capitol, the route will
come down Cedar Street, turn right on West 7th and circle around Dorothy Day
in front of the Xcel Energy Center at 7th and 5th streets.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This ought to be seen as a great route for demonstrating within sight and
sound of the Republican delegates. Directly across the street will be the
electronic screening portals for convention goers from the main parking and
bus drop-off areas.
We plan to work closely with Dorothy Day Center, Catholic Charities and
Listening House to ensure the safety of their clients. (The route actually
doesn't circle dorothy day, it passes by DD on the street forward from it.)
We also continue to work on plans for servicing small businesses around the
Seven Corners area.
dave
ward 2
epicentre of RNC at rivercentre
This should be handy for Jon Stewart also. My understanding is that he
will be broadcasting from the Great American History Theater.
Chris Rybisky
Cathedral Hill
Hey Dave,
What happens to the protesters once they get down to the Excel? Do they have a
route back up to the Capitol? If not where do they go?
Forwarded from Tim Erickson who's exceeded his post limit for the day: On May 14, 2008, at 9:24 PM, Gena Berglund wrote: > What happens to the protesters once they get down to the Excel? Do > they have a route back up to the Capitol? If not where do they go? > Here are links to some articles that cover the subject. RNC protest route announced http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/05/14/protest/ This article includes a map of the route Protesters say RNC route is problematic, time frame is unfair http://tinyurl.com/3v77h7 St. Paul police route will get RNC protesters as close as 300 feet from Xcel Center http://tinyurl.com/4qo7cv
I've gotten some decent feedback on the route. It does get demonstrators
really close to actual delegates and should suit the media just fine. There
really was never any hope that a demonstration parade would be allowed to
surround the excel. This route though brings protestors practically right
beside the entrances where I understand the majority of credentialed folk
must pass through security on their way from buses to convention.
My only confusion is that I did not understand that a specific time to
demonstrate via parade would be scheduled by the city. I've been under the
impression that demonstrators could sign up for a variety of times including
prime media time. I'd like to hear from folks on that.
One thing additional - there is a fairly large area at the parade route
turnaround where anyone - including protesters can remain in a stationary
location.
Seriously, unless you really wanted to surround and levitate the convention
center, this is decent access.
To Gena - after the turn you can either stay there or retrace the route down
7th and up cedar.
Suspecting that the Cedar to 7th St. route would be the chosen protest route,
my spouse and I have made plans to be gone through the entire event. The
building that we live in has its parking entrance on 7th St. between Cedar and
Minnesota.
Access from the North and West will certainly be restricted and I imagine that
streets around the protest route will be barricaded and manned with security
around the clock. There are approximately 1,500 people that live within two
blocks of Cedar and 7th St. I hope that some thought will be given to easing
the disruption this event is going to cause these residents, as well as making
protesters and small business owners happy.
Dave Thune wrote: "after the turn you can either stay there or retrace the
route" back to the Capitol. Dave, how many demonstrators to you expect will
march away and how many do you anticipate will stay?
Does anyone have any idea how many people, including hundreds if not thousands
of armed police, are going to be crammed into the not very large area between
the Dorothy Day Center and the Convention Center perimeter? My guess is the
space is unbelievably tiny for the size of the crowd that is likely assemble.
As a result, the crowd will spill over, or least try to spill over, the
barricades, at which time the security goons will light up and there will be a
big f****king mess. Good luck, St. Paul.
That's why intend to do all my screaming from Harriet Island. Chuck Repke In a message dated 5/15/2008 1:06:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, <email obscured> writes: Dave Thune wrote: "after the turn you can either stay there or retrace the route" back to the Capitol. Dave, how many demonstrators to you expect will march away and how many do you anticipate will stay? Does anyone have any idea how many people, including hundreds if not thousands of armed police, are going to be crammed into the not very large area between the Dorothy Day Center and the Convention Center perimeter? My guess is the space is unbelievably tiny for the size of the crowd that is likely assemble. As a result, the crowd will spill over, or least try to spill over, the barricades, at which time the security goons will light up and there will be a big f****king mess. Good luck, St. Paul. Sheldon Gitis South St. Anthony Park Info about Sheldon Gitis: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/sheldongitis This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/vd8MlceCe7P4lyP9H3EQo
At the risk of being accused of selfish self-promotion (which I deny)
I encourage the reading of my piece on this March to the RNC convention in
the St. Paul Almanac, on the date of the convention of course.
David Tilsen
At the risk of being paranoid?
All of you living downtown, I hope you can leave town for that whole week.
It's gonna be heck.
As for Dave Thune and his hugging and kissing of the protesters coming to town,
well, Good Luck to you, Sir. It's gonna bite you in the butt. I hope no other
groups wanted to enjoy Harriet Island after the protesters had been there.
It's gonna need a really good clean up.
It's gonna be a mess folks. You all seen the "Parade" route for the
protesters, right? It's going to be right about in front of the Excel. We
have the peaceful protesters, which are always welcome, but we also have some
whackos coming to town. It is not going to be good.
People on this list call our Police so many bad names, I'm not going to repeat
them here. Me? I'm glad they are here.
When the crap hits the fan, this is one person who will be hoping none of our
"jackboot authorities" get hurt.
We are in for a lot of hurt.
Gina, I sure wish you would tell us why you are so upset. First of all, there will be protests. Its likely many of them will do what they want regardless of the efforts to limit their march route. But I find it very offensive that you use the term Jackboot to refer to our peace officers. Its people like you who use that language that create the atmosphere where people think they can challenge the authority of a peace officer. No. I don't think the actions of some are justified. But your broad brush only creates a confrontation attitude. Protesters have the right to be here. They do not have the right to damage property or ignore a legal order. If they do, they should be arrested. Unfortunately, those who damage property or ignore a legal order have a tendency to resist arrest. This is where someone can get hurt. I am confident that the St. Paul Police department will act in a professional manner. GG Mitchell <captaincab1969@yahoo.com> wrote: At the risk of being paranoid? All of you living downtown, I hope you can leave town for that whole week. It's gonna be heck. As for Dave Thune and his hugging and kissing of the protesters coming to town, well, Good Luck to you, Sir. It's gonna bite you in the butt. I hope no other groups wanted to enjoy Harriet Island after the protesters had been there. It's gonna need a really good clean up. It's gonna be a mess folks. You all seen the "Parade" route for the protesters, right? It's going to be right about in front of the Excel. We have the peaceful protesters, which are always welcome, but we also have some whackos coming to town. It is not going to be good. People on this list call our Police so many bad names, I'm not going to repeat them here. Me? I'm glad they are here. When the crap hits the fan, this is one person who will be hoping none of our "jackboot authorities" get hurt. We are in for a lot of hurt. Gina Mitchell Eastside! Edge of Dayton's Bluff/Payne Phalen to be technical, Saint Paul Info about GG Mitchell: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/mitchellgina This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/3yRtn952VgD6IzQDa4xaW2
Some Downtown residents are in for a big hassle from the protest marches, for
others it will not be too big a deal. Maybe a lot will skip town, like I plan
to.
I cannot imagine that where people lived Downtown was not taken into
consideration in selecting this route, but it is hard to believe that it was.
The Downtown residents that will be the hardest hit with security, noise and
human traffic will be on the blocks East of Cedar, North of 7th St. to Hwy. 94
and West of St. Peter. Seven out of nine of the blocks in this area contain one
or more residential properties.
This morning I walked the neighborhood and talked to a Postman and a couple of
the building superintendents. The rest of my count is available on the net and
I got the census data from the Wilder Research Center. From South to North and
East to West here is a list of residences and number of units in property:
Property Units
City Walk Condominiums 228
Naomi Family Center 70
The Point Condominiums 290
Central Presbyterian Rectory 1
St. Louis Church Rectory 1
Central Towers Presbyterian Home 197
Fitzgerald Condominiums 40
Viking Apartments 33
10 West Exchange Apartments 194
545 Wabasha Apartments 70
Gallery Towers Condominiums 182
That comes to a total of 1,306 units, or 145 units per block (1,306 / 9) and
two of the blocks have no residential properties on them. Looking at 2000
census data, there were 5,743 people that were living in 3,772 occupied housing
units and there was a 6.1% vacancy rate for all housing units. All of the above
properties were complete and occupied in 2000. Using that data, that would mean
that there were 1.523 occupants per housing unit in 2000, or 1.43 occupants
adjusted for the vacancy rate ((5,743/3772) X (1 - .061)): TOTAL = 1,868
residents in the effected area, or 208 souls for each of the nine blocks. I am
only guessing on this, but I venture that this is not only the most densely
populated nine blocks of Downtown, but of the entire city - remember, these are
smaller Downtown blocks, not Highland, or Summit/Groveland blocks.
By way of comparison, take a look at the residential units on the entire John
Ireland Blvd. to Kellogg Blvd. route. It is probably does not have 10% of the
neighborhood chosen.
Way to fight for your constituents Dave!
I thought that the demonstration parades were being scheuduled by the city
between the hours of 10:00 am and 2:00pm (or something like that). It
didn't appear to me in my reading of any reports on this that there was
going to be a continual stream of people "marching" down the route and
clogging up Cedar Street or 7th Street or any streets feeding into them.
This limited time frame will obviously allow the folks downtown get in and
out of their buildings during rush hours and for a great majority of the
rest of the day. I think the police and Dave Thune did a fantastic job of
not disrupting the lives of downtown residents as much as they might have.
Plus - this is only 4 days AND this is what happens when you choose to live
in a large city or in a downtown area - street shutdowns occassionally for
parades/events (Winter Carnival for instance or Grand Old Days or the Twin
Cities Marathon). St. Paul has been given the opportunity for our city to
be showcased as the location for a once-every-four-years national political
convention - so there will be some inconvenience. If you'd rather live in
the boring 'burbs, be our guests.
Gloria Bogen
West Side = Best Side
> I am only guessing on this, but
> I venture that this is not only the most densely populated nine blocks of
> Downtown, but of the entire city - remember, these are smaller Downtown
> blocks, not Highland, or Summit/Groveland blocks.
Add the following:
100 units in Irvine Park Historic District
40 or so not counted in that on Chestnut and Seventh
50 or so in Sherman Forbes Housing
We're pretty densely populated on the other side of Xcel, too. You could
include Leech/McBoal and the Upper Landing, but that's going out a bit.
I don't see this as anything more than the price of a great life. I love
it here, and we haven't had a big show in a long time. We're due.
My advice is to get a lawn chair and have snacks handy as you watch the
parades go by. Oh, and enjoy it!
To me planning for the Republican National Convention is just like planning for
a 4 day snowstorm for downtown residents, except it can also be a spectator
sport. I would love to be in a place where I could shout at the Republicans.
Not that they would listen! So the lawnchair and snacks idea sounds very good.
Maybe someone in downtown could have a Republican/protest watching party and
invite all of us SPIF folks. We could bicycle or walk. Every year the folks
near the fair have gone through similar types of experiences. Some of them make
money by renting out lawn space to vendors.
I am happy that the city is trying to have a designated route and designated
times, so everyone can plan. This plan seems leave good access to all the
hospitals, and everyone can access downtown places from one direction, just no
crossing of the center of downtown. I think this a reasonable set of good
compromises to fit everyone's needs. Actually, I think this a good job for the
circumstances.
Being a curmudgeon, I still have the view, that there is at least one group -
anarchists, who are planning to blockade and break the law, plans were posted
on the web. My personal theory (without evidence) is that they are secretly led
by Republican paid troublemakers to make protesting look bad. I believe that
because of many historical patterns of similar proven activities. While I
believe that we, in St Paul, have a good community minded police force, I also
believe that we have many extra cops from other places, who might mess up. So
expect many "staged" incidents meant to spin tales, that are actually just alot
of political theater. In the end, I don't think what is "staged" at the RNC,
should affect your view of either local peacemakers who protest or local St
Paul police.
I hope that we plan ahead and watch with eyes, cameras and videos. I hope that
we watch the spun stories with our typical Midwestern reserve and wait for the
real facts to emerge. The first story is usually the "spun" story of the people
trying to "create" the news, so I will be very suspicious of first stories.
This September, we will be a part of history, which means that it will be both
a good and bad experience. I have faith in us as a community, that we will act
together and demonstrate Midwestern good sense. This email list as well a
number of blogs, are planning to be actively be posting for local news and
help.
Grace Kelly nicknamed Kelly
Merriam Park Curmudgeon
I'm wondering: Is it too late to have Tampa host this convention instead of St
Paul?
It seems like the cost/benefit ratio for this event is extremely high. I am
still guessing that the lawsuit cost to St Paul well be in the tens of millions
range. (Although we may never find out, since silence about the awards is
usually part of the post-brutality agreements, as I have found out by spending
hours and hours trying to google the question.) Sadly, we are already seeing
the more enduring costs of a massive rupture of confidence with the peace
protesters (and sometimes citizens at large) on one side and the the police on
the other. The long and painful process of permit application has already sewn
mistrust. The testing of new pain-compliance weapons against protesters (and a
few innocent bystanders) will probably be the icing on the cake. I am afraid
this entire event will be setting back police/community relations in St Paul by
at least decades.
Not only fellow list-member Dave Thune likely bear a political cost. I imagine
that the entire city council will have a hard time in the aftermath. Whoever
thought it would be a good idea to host the political party convention for the
folks behind the Iraq war, the Katrina mess, the current recession and the
assault on the middle class, the deficit boondoogle and the massive
underfunding of our national infrastructure? In retrospect, what were they
thinking and how in the world did they expect hosting such a convention could
possibly be a benefit to St Paul?
Couldn't we send these people to Tampa? Please, please!
On May 16, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Charley Underwood wrote:
> Whoever thought it would be a good idea to host the political party
> convention for the folks behind the Iraq war, the Katrina mess, the
> current recession and the assault on the middle class, the deficit
> boondoogle and the massive underfunding of our national
> infrastructure? In retrospect, what were they thinking and how in
> the world did they expect hosting such a convention could possibly
> be a benefit to St Paul?
If hosting this event is really such a disruptive and damaging thing
to a community, I'm curious about why one would think that Tampa is
better suited to hosting it? I'm also curious about the values behind
the idea, that its better to pass this burden (to whatever extent it
is a burden) off on someone else, because we aren't willing to host it
ourselves.
Political conventions are a part of the democratic process in this
country - and I can't imagine anything more damaging to our community
than to turn our collective backs at this late date, not that it would
be possible, on an privilege/obligation that we voluntarily took upon
ourselves well over a year ago.
I still think that its a small (but vocal) minority in our community
that actually oppose our hosting of this convention. I think that a
majority either don't care, or are excited to see St. Paul at the very
heart of the democratic process that will play an very important role
in shaping the future of our country.
Hosting a political convention will be disruptive and controversial in
any community in this country. BUT, its a part of the process that
makes our country work - and I think that St. Paul is better equipped
to handle this responsibility than many communities in our country and
stands to benefit a great deal from having been through the process.
I support the convention, not because I agree with the ideas or
policies of the political party in question, but because I strongly
respect the need for political debate and disagreement as part of
building a strong democracy. I'm proud that St. Paul has taken on the
burdens, of which there are many, of hosting this convention and I'm
grateful for the opportunities that this convention will give us to
grow as a community, to further develop our democratic ideals, and to
be recognized around the nation.
Like many, I look forward to having the convention in town.
Best wishes,
Tim Erickson
Hamline Midway, St. Paul
(Expressing My Personal Opinion)
Tim sed:
> If hosting this event is really such a disruptive and damaging thing
> to a community, I'm curious about why one would think that Tampa is
> better suited to hosting it?
According to legend, in the early 1800s the pirate José Gaspar, aka
"Gasparillo", took the town for few days.
If they can survive that, they can survive the Republican onslaught. I
think.
The news reports said that protesters will be allowed 300 feet away from the Excel and that 300 feet is a precedent. Not so fast. According to very reliable sources, the protesters in LA (DNC-2000) were 50 feet away from Staples, the site of the convention. Try to imagine this: 20,000 to 50,000 protesters marching from the capital grounds down a narrow street (Cedar) to a tiny triangle where there will be barricades and where they will be forced to go around the tiny triangle and back up the same narrow street to the capital. All within 2 to 4 hours. What's not to like about this plan? Regarding people's question about the numbers. I can only say this...in 2004, the Washington Post reported that 200,000 protesters converged on NYC. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45279-2004Aug29.html 20,000 to 50,000 in Saint Paul is VERY possible. Gena Berglund Macalester Groveland
Tim Erickson, I think you are a bit uninformed about the actual role that
conventions play in the democratic process. Ideally, conventions would be a
wonderful place for delegates to get together and talk about what direction the
country should take and who should lead us. In reality, they are stage-managed
shows where it is much more important what color of sign you are holding up
than any question of policy on any level. It's a show. They could hire extras
and save a ton of money. The nomination process actually happens somewhere
else, which is why the Democrats are so eager to reach a consensus. (I know
this because I have been a national delegate myself for the Democratic Party,
and it was one of the least democratic experiences of my life.)
You may be right about the cruelty of asking Tampa to make this sacrifice,
however. Perhaps a military zone would be less disruptive to the citizen
population. I'm thinking maybe Guantanamo. Or maybe Fort Benning, in Georgia.
What do you think? Do you believe that either of those locations have adequate
facilities for the television crews, yet are far enough away from the rest of
us that we could live more peaceful lives? Perhaps you might suggest a
different alternative.
Other uses of streets in Saint Paul (and Mpls) Grand Old Day (6-8 hours, 30 city blocks, 50,000 people????) TC Marathon (6 hours, 26 miles of street, 11,000 racers, ) St. Patty's Day parade (3 hours, 20 city blocks, ???? people??) http://www.stpatsassoc.org/02_Parade/for_immediate_release2008.htm Compare: RNC (2-4 hours, 11 blocks, 20,000 to 50,000 people) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=dorothy%20day%20center%20saint%20paul&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wl The tiny triangle south of the Dorothy Day may comfortably hold 1,000 people. If they are only allowed to protest from noon to 2, and 50,000 people turn out for Day 1 protest, then each group of 1,000 people will have 2.4 minutes to shout at the RNC. (120 minutes / 50 groups.) ???????? Gena Berglund Macalester Groveland
Charley I think you must be talking of Denver. You stated "the political party
convention for the folks behind the Iraq war". Congress 'declared' war and the
last I heard that group is controlled by the Democrats. "the Katrina mess"
again the Democrat controlled Congress allocated the money and never followed
through to see that the levees were built. "the current recession and the
assault on the middle class," the largest single expense for any middle class
family is taxes which are totally controlled by a Democratic Congress. And we
have just witnesses how the Democrat controlled Minnesota legislature taxed the
hell out of us AGAIN. "the deficit boondoogle and the massive underfunding
of our national infrastructure" and yes Congress and only Congress controls the
national purse string. They are the ones spending more than they tax and they
alone decide where the money will be spent.
As far as the protesters, BTW they are anything but 'peace', if they abide by
the law there will be no issues. Substitute Bush for Nixon and Iraq for Viet
Nam and it is the same old garbage that it was 40 years ago. No one really
wants to hear what they have to say. So in order to get attention...like any
two year old... they will have to break things. And of course our Leftist news
media thinks any protest is news so they will stick a microphone in some jerk's
face.
What would really be news if all the media agreed that not one soundbite or one
foot of film was to aired of any protest or protester the entire convention. To
be 'balanced' all they would have to say every night is "there were those who
opposed the convention in town"
Dean Sheldon
Other venues:
Guantanamo was a good idea
then there's also:
New Orleans (unreconstructed area)
Iraq
Afghanistan
a veterans trauma center
In short, I think the RNC being here will just give the forces of fascism
another trial area to destroy. It will be an unmitigated disaster. Best to
be way way way away from any of it. Those close will suffer collateral
damage. There is nothing "democratic" about these criminals. They stole
the 2000 and the 2004 elections; how much more proof do we need of their
bad intentions?
Where do you get your information Sheldon? I know your political POV, but that doesn't give you the right to re-write history. First of all no one gave the President a declaration of war. I won't go into those specifics because it has nothing to do with St. Paul. then you state that the Democrats controlled Congress. You are wrong again. The Democrats have controlled Congress for less than two years. Even with the majority they can't get necessary funding passed due to the Republican filibusters that prevent almost anything of value from getting passed. Oh yes, Katrina occurred more than a year before the election that put the Democrats back in the majority. On the other hand, I would only temper your comments about the peaceful protesters. Yes there will be people who come here for the expresses purpose of creating chaos. Based on past history, I would bet that some, but not all, will be Republican plants with the full intent to incite confrontation. Of course there will also be those who are coming here for the specific purpose of confronting the officers on duty. They won't be here to protest but to incite others to riot. Hopefully, the peace officers working the marches will be trained to ignore direct confrontation by those hoping to get a violent reaction from them. We don't need another Chicago where the police confronted peaceful gatherings with the idea of bashing heads. Dean Sheldon <dgjashel@concentric.net> wrote: Charley I think you must be talking of Denver. You stated "the political party convention for the folks behind the Iraq war". Congress 'declared' war and the last I heard that group is controlled by the Democrats. "the Katrina mess" again the Democrat controlled Congress allocated the money and never followed through to see that the levees were built. "the current recession and the assault on the middle class," the largest single expense for any middle class family is taxes which are totally controlled by a Democratic Congress. And we have just witnesses how the Democrat controlled Minnesota legislature taxed the hell out of us AGAIN. "the deficit boondoogle and the massive underfunding of our national infrastructure" and yes Congress and only Congress controls the national purse string. They are the ones spending more than they tax and they alone decide where the money will be spent. As far as the protesters, BTW they are anything but 'peace', if they abide by the law there will be no issues. Substitute Bush for Nixon and Iraq for Viet Nam and it is the same old garbage that it was 40 years ago. No one really wants to hear what they have to say. So in order to get attention...like any two year old... they will have to break things. And of course our Leftist news media thinks any protest is news so they will stick a microphone in some jerk's face. What would really be news if all the media agreed that not one soundbite or one foot of film was to aired of any protest or protester the entire convention. To be 'balanced' all they would have to say every night is "there were those who opposed the convention in town" Dean Sheldon Dean Sheldon St. Anthony Park, St. Paul Info about Dean Sheldon: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/deansheldon This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/5wjWSkaqnIwBEKFeCD4roX
If this 300 feet figure is correct...how are they going to get to the Xcel?
Wouldn't 300 feet be closer to Mickey's Diner or the Children's Museum?
300 feet = the length of a standard block downtown 600 feet = the length of a standard block in the rest of the City 300 feet would put protesters roughly at the base of the new Smith Avenue parking ramp, or near the corner of 7th & 6th Streets, adjacent to the Dorothy Day Center. Bob On May 17, 2008, at 7:06 AM, Chris Rybisky wrote: > If this 300 feet figure is correct...how are they going to get to > the Xcel? Wouldn't 300 feet be closer to Mickey's Diner or the > Children's Museum? > > > Chris Rybisky > Cathedral Hill, Saint Paul > Info about Chris Rybisky: http://forums.e-democracy.org/p/chrisrybisky > > This topic's messages may be viewed at: http://forums.e-democracy.org/r/topic/16Ltoxcv53iJ64McTRF2mm
Random thoughts from an old man who 1) grew up in the dull climes of Minnesota,
2) lived in San Francisco during the tumultuous years of the late sixties, 3)
spent the next two decades in Manhattan, and 4) has now returned to the dull
climes of MN…………………
… Political protest is political theater, and the whole concept is to push the
audience (cops trying to maintain “control”) to a provocation point.
… Think about your own kids who push whatever boundaries (cultural and
behavioral) you have set to test your response.
… “Violence is as American as apple pie.” A truism if there ever was one, but
unfortunately, H. Rap Brown did not understand where to draw the line, and is
now spending the rest of his days in a prison cell.
… “If it bleeds, it leads” …… or the addendum, “don’t throw that brick through
the window until I get my camera in position.”
… A city will survive the protests; the trick for protestors on the one side
and cops on the other side is who carries the stain. E.G. Chicago 1968 = stain
on cops, Seattle WTO 1999 = stain on protestors.
… I think the whole RNC thing will come out pretty tame because:
1) If SP police are allowed to create the “enforcement climate” I think we’ll
do fine. I do worry about some of the rogue elements that seem to be scattered
through the Mpls police force, but I suspect many of the outstate deputies will
not have much taste for bludgeoning protesters. As far as the federales are
concerned, I doubt if we will see this crowd out on the street where their
actions could escalate protester behaviors.
2) The protest climate now is vastly different than it was 40 years ago during
the Vietnam war era, and even four years ago (during the NYC RNC). Bush is
headed out the door, and that alone will take a lot of the wind out of the
sails of protesters.
… Young people don’t seem to feel they have a “dog in this fight” (no draft),
so most of the protesters will be from the ranks of the middle age and older –
folks who are not exactly prone to provocative actions. Also, it’s hard for a
cop to hit somebody who looks like his sister or mother.
… Most of the “drama” in this theatrical production is the speculation on 1)
how many protesters will show up, and 2) what will the cop response be to those
who do stray over whatever geographic and behavioral “lines” are established.
… So my counsel to all those who are gnashing their teeth and wringing their
hands – sit back and enjoy the spectacle. It is one of the pleasures of living
in an urban environment. The city will survive, and life will go on………………….
Incredible, the amount of time spent quibbling over how close the protesters
get to stand and be photographed holding their signs in proximity to the
delegates who are coming to town to be photographed holding their signs.
I, too, demonstrated in the days when there were no stinking permits. Now, the
Cheneys and the Rumsfeldts have set our country back decades in their
determination to get a do-over on the fiasco of Viet Nam. So, the aging
protest movement seems equally determined to get a do-over on Chicago '68,
trying to get "permits" to get government to somehow sanction their protests
against the very government issuing the "permits". :::eyes crossing:::
Rather than competing for the title of Biggest Victim of the Convention, I
would much rather see all this energy expended in efforts to promote youth
involvement in what's left of America's third-rate democracy, rather than
seeing the older generation continue to embarrass them further from
participating in government.
It's going to be their country long before you're through sniveling about who
victimized whom in the Florida vote count or the St. Paul RNC convention.
If you have a voter education/registration committee in your district council,
join it. Work at least this hard to get youth involved, find out what THEY
want to talk about and don't be surprised if it's NOT the parade route to the
River Centre. If you don't have a voter education/registration committee in
your district council, why are you sitting there reading this whiney-ass
thread?
What I was trying to say was Saint Paul not Aaint Paul, and my point is a
Deowntown Saint Paul block is smaller than Downtowntown Mpls.
John Mannillo
I think there is one thing missing in this discussion. Back in the day when we
protested the Vietnam war, no one had the knowledge to build a device that
could be concealed and yet cause serious physical damage. Unfortunately, we
now have such devices. They can be carried in back packs.
Guy Western <wtscs@mindspring.com> wrote:
Incredible, the amount of time spent quibbling over how close the protesters
get to stand and be photographed holding their signs in proximity to the
delegates who are coming to town to be photographed holding their signs.
I, too, demonstrated in the days when there were no stinking permits. Now, the
Cheneys and the Rumsfeldts have set our country back decades in their
determination to get a do-over on the fiasco of Viet Nam. So, the aging
protest movement seems equally determined to get a do-over on Chicago '68,
trying to get "permits" to get government to somehow sanction their protests
against the very government issuing the "permits". :::eyes crossing:::
Rather than competing for the title of Biggest Victim of the Convention, I
would much rather see all this energy expended in efforts to promote youth
involvement in what's left of America's third-rate democracy, rather than
seeing the older generation continue to embarrass them further from
participating in government.
It's going to be their country long before you're through sniveling about who
victimized whom in the Florida vote count or the St. Paul RNC convention.
If you have a voter education/registration committee in your district council,
join it. Work at least this hard to get youth involved, find out what THEY
want to talk about and don't be surprised if it's NOT the parade route to the
River Centre. If you don't have a voter education/registration committee in
your district council, why are you sitting there reading this whiney-ass
thread?
Ok, let me restate here, I never called the police "Jackboots." I was simply
restating what I've read/seen that the protesters who are coming to St. Paul in
September are calling our Police Department. If I was unclear, well, sorry.
The SPPD and all the other assisting PD's will do what they can to keep the
peace. This I have no doubt. I have the utmost respect for our PD. They have
a hard job, and do it day in and day out. And yet, when it is all over, they
will still be sued because they violated someone's "civil rights."
Yeah, anyone seen New York since the last RNC convention? That city is still
being sued. What fun.
As for the RNC protests, sure, we can sit back and relax and watch the show.
And at what cost?
We are going to have crazy people coming to the Capitol City for this
convention.
As for Harriet Island being a mess, think about it. 50,000 + protesters are
expected. What kind of a mess does one think they will leave behind. One
word: ISH.
Everyone and anyone can quibble and yip about this topic. I've said my peace.
We are in for a world of hurt this September. If I am wrong, I will gladly eat
my words. I have no problem admitting my mistakes.
But I do feel sorry for the Downtown residents, or anyone living near this
convention.
It's going to be a sight all right. Let's just hope no one gets hurt.
Maybe it will be a wake up call for this city. Maybe not.
Time will tell.
"Some people say" the preferred route would be:
The Capitol
John Ireland Boulevard
Speaker's Corner / True Blue Tube
Kellogg Blvd
river side of Kellogg Blvd
Wabasha
Water
Harriet
buses across Robert & Smith (RNC can use Lafayette)
This "some people" call the "Delta Model," where the river of people keep
flowing gently until they empty into a large spacious place.
The current "Dam Model" seems prone to floods and accidental drownings, but I
have gathered there are issues I will never fully grasp (ambulances, e.g.). I
do wonder why the time frame seems so unfair (short). The street closures of
Cinco de Mayo didn't seem to bother anyone. What's wrong with a few hours of
pedestrianization? Call it an experiment. Downtowners seem to be either
looking forward to the spectacle or preparing to vacate. (How about $100 a
night for your place, Mr. McLean? I could ScotchGard it first, if you like.)
But as my old 'Drunkle' Leonard used to say, "When life hands you lemons and
$600, make a huge batch of Lynchburg Lemonade."
True Blue Minnesota aims to be part of the solution, not the problem. When you
reach the end of the route, take the path up to the MN History Center parking
lot. Look toward the Cathedral and you will see messages:
"Open toilet on Summit & Arundel"
"Larry Craig sighting at Trikkx"
"Ambulance en route from Love Doctor - keep Marion/Kellogg clear"
"Eat at Moe's"
"Put down the taser, son"
"Found: toddler. Needs changing. Hurry."
"Sky blue water at the Rybiskies'"
"Free hosedowns - Fire Station #10"
"Amber, call your dad"
You get the picture. The very big picture. 20 feet x 30 feet. And you can be
on it.
True Blue Tube is part of the new, growing, anti-Murdochian media movement.
There's been a lot of brainwashing going on lately and not enough rinsing.
We're joining the other citizen journalists of the Twin Cities and the world in
an effort to tell the truth and expose the lies. "Some people" just watched
"Outfoxed" last night and I'm, I mean, they're considering a "Robert Greenwald
Hour" on True Blue Tube ("Uncovered," "Iraq For Sale," ...)
We have no hidden agenda - nothing to hide at all. I live like I'm under
surveillance. (FYI, I don't have Tourette's - I'm just talking to my imaginary
Secret Service Agents.) We are not in it for money - although we could use
some of yours, please. Our goal is simple: change the world. And mellow
things out. And give traffic reports. And show art, music, liars, interviews,
cartoons, morning shows, greedy pigs, documentaries, quotes, news, live action,
immoral behavior, vending information, restaurant reviews, maps, wasted
conventioneers, comedy, ...
In two days, please come and learn about our 527 non-profit organization. Tell
us what YOU want the world to know, and how together we can make it a reality.
5 o'clock
Downtowner Woodfire Grill
Wed 21 May
Don't leave without your True Blue porch light bulb, absolutely free with a
donation!
A Hine
Ward Zero
spankin' new stonkin' website, with idea-sparkin' videos:
www.truebluemn.com
The following file was added to this topic:
The Boston trip was my spouse's "nonnegotiable" decision. Fully embracing the
concept of making lemonade out of the lemons, I immediately suggested the
possibility of renting out our condo, since if you have rental of a personal
residence for fewer than 15 days, none of the rental income is includable in
gross income. IRC Sec. 280A(g). I was thinking Republicans, since they are
usually well healed.
After I voiced this possibility, I got the long stare - I could almost here her
thoughts, "is this fool a victim of body snatchers, or something." Then a very
rare stream of expletives erupted from my spouse, about having Republicans in
our home. I countered with well maybe the protesters might need some place to
stay and she neared violence: End of that conversation.
Bob,
As media go, True Blue Minnesota is "The Happy Medium." Ask her again -
there's $400 in it for her. That's her airfare covered. I'll even throw
in some Hurricane Window Film.
AMH
Andrew M. Hine
3M IATD
Industrial Adhesives & Tapes Division
3M Center 230-1F-35
St. Paul MN
55144-1000
USA
<email obscured>
Tel: (651) 733-1070
Fax: (651) 737-2003
"Bob McLean" <grmpllc@comcast.net>
05/19/2008 03:58 PM
To
"St. Paul Issues Forum" <stpaul-issues@forums.e-democracy.org>
cc
Subject
Re: [SPIF] RNC demonstration route
Part of the problem of perception that the people of Saint Paul may have about Republicans is, that they are near (or may be) extinct in our city. All we know about them is what we see in the media. I tried to learn what the local republicans had underway before and during the RNC, so I went on line and found the web page for "Saint Paul Republican City Committee:" http://www.stpaulgop.com/index.php/Main_Page Check it out: It has an event schedule that is completely blank from now through the end of the year (I did not look further). Maybe the RNC should add a find a Saint Paul Republican Scavenger Hunt to its agenda. It would give the delegates a good reason to venture out on those red bicycles and get a whole lot of fresh air. If any of you follow the posts in the SPPP re Saint Paul and Ramsey County politics, you may have noticed that other than frequent slides into state and national politics, the discussion revolves around whether a politician is too "conservative," or not "liberal" enough and the discussion is confined to democrats, except in the case of the Ramsey County School Board, where there is one Republican. I propose that he should be protected as an endangered species. Bob McLean
The idea of rich republicans come from the economic policy priorities they have
taken on since Wm McKinley was in the House and got his McKinley Tariff passed.
It was a boom for American businesses but kicked the farmers in the tail. After
becoming President in 1896, the Republicans began a focus on manipulating the
economy for the owners and investors. Democrats and those on the Left, took on
the role of representing the farmers, workers and the organized labor movement.
For example, you didn't have to work and save for a decade before having
children so that you can send them to grade school or pay a private instructor
to come to your home everyday. Democrats support strong public schools so that
many of us don't think twice about how it became to be.
If they eat lunch at school (even at full price) its also subsidized by the
government. Special needs? The government says you still have to educate those
children too.
If you don't own a car, you must use public transportation, government ran and
subsidized.
Those cigarettes you smoke outdoors, you know why you can smoke them and not
die on the spot from too much arsenic? Government. FDA regulates how much
poison can go in the cigarettes.
Do you have a food taster when you go to restaurants? No because the government
have standards for human edible meat and meat by-products.
That place you rent, is there a set cost or, does the landlord change the price
of rent month to month? What about utilities? All of that is regulate by
government, every step of the way, business interests fought it.
You may not have asked for that government assistance, but you certainly don't
turn away from it.
What I find fascinating is that the Republicans have been so successful at the
cultural war among Americans that many groups of people vote against their OWN
interest. Look at the states that receive more in federal services than they
pay into the federal government, all 'red' states, where 'blue' state like
Minnesota and Massachusetts pay more and get less.
St Paul has ALWAYS been a Democratic stronghold going back to when it was a
town and elected Thomas Potts as its town President in 1850. I believe until
recent times it was due more so to the allegiance vast numbers of Irish had to
the Democratic Party. It was a welcoming party and helped many first generation
Americans find prominence. In Saint Paul alone we elected three mayors who
were Irish natives. The Republicans weren't too friendly to immigrants and new
citizens back then either.
Some things never change.
Eric Mitchell
Payne Phalen